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View Full Version : Gretz; You think the Chiefs draft bad, check out the Royals???


Bootlegged
04-06-2005, 07:35 AM
Wow. :shake: I like the focus soley on 1st rounders in the 90's. He may wanna check the calendar.


GRETZ: A Little Help Please
Apr 06, 2005, 6:08:09 AM by Bob Gretz



The major league baseball season opened this week and the Kansas City Royals started their 2005 season with the worst opening day loss in franchise history.



Of course, in a season that has 162 games a single defeat does not amount to much. At least, thatís what long suffering Royals fans hope is the case. So do the Chiefs, because right now, Kansas Cityís baseball team probably has no bigger fans than the folks around Arrowhead Stadium.

The Chiefs and Royals have been good neighbors for over 30 years at the Truman Sports Complex. From the late 1970s through the 1980s, the Royals were the winning team, while the Chiefs scuffled around among the NFLís worst teams. That changed in the 1990s, when the bottom dropped out of Kansas City baseball and the Chiefs re-established themselves as a winning franchise.

Thereís never really been much of a rivalry between the teams, or at least nothing thatís ever gotten into the public view. Theyíve co-existed quite nicely.

But right now, the Chiefs sure would like the Royals to start winning and take some of the sporting spotlight that they broil under each and every day. Media attention on football far surpasses that of baseball in the Kansas City area. There is no longer an off-season with Chiefs football, as the playing season, slides into the free agent season, then the draft season and then the preparation season, and then the cycle starts all over again.

Pay attention to local media outlets and itís very plain who occupies the No. 1 sports spot in this town. Minus game action, stories about the Chiefs will always lead the sports segments of newscasts on radio and television and run across the top of the page in the sports section. Thatís true in November, and itís true in February, May and August.

Now we can argue the chicken and the egg question of whether fan interest creates the coverage, or coverage creates the fan interest, but what canít be argued is that the media and sports fans have very different approaches to Kansas Cityís two major league teams. Both groups will pick apart every decision, every action at Arrowhead Stadium. Anything less than post-season success is considered complete failure. The spotlight is never turned off, the attention never goes away.

The microscope does not have the same strength when it comes to the Royals. The team has had one winning season in the last 10 years and has not played in or won in the post-season since the seventh game of the 1985 World Series. The last 10 years of the franchise are rife with poor personnel decisions.

The Chiefs are often criticized for their drafting each season. As a comparison, letís look at the first-picks by the Chiefs and Royals in their respective drafts during the 1990s:

CHIEFS: LB Percy Snow, RB Harvey Williams, CB Dale Carter, RB Greg Hill, T Trezelle Jenkins, S Jerome Woods, TE Tony Gonzalez, T Victor Riley and T John Tait.
ROYALS: OF Joe Vitiello, INF Michael Tucker, P Jim Pittsley, P Jeff Granger, 1B/P Matt Smith, OF Juan LeBron, OF Dermal Brown, P Dan Reichart, P Jeff Austin and P Kyle Snyder.
Among the Chiefs picks, Carter, Woods and Gonzalez ended up making the Pro Bowl. All the others, with the exception of Jenkins, at least reached starting status. For the Royals, only Tucker put together any type of major league career. Some of the others are still banging around on the fringe of the major leagues, but none has come near All- Star status.

Certainly, the Royals have a much tougher job each season because of the inherent imbalance created by baseballís financial structure. As a small market team, they cannot generate the revenue that teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, Angels and Cubs, and thus the Royals payroll ranks either last or next to last in the major leagues. Year in, year out, thatís going to affect the victories and the defeats.

This has created an atmosphere among local pundits where they think criticizing or picking on the Royals is like beating up a 98-pound weakling. But columnists and the tin throats of sports talk radio live to take their shots, so if the Royals arenít going to get them, the scrutiny falls on the Chiefs where a mistake, whether real or imagined, leads to verbal and written dissection filled with venom.

For any sports franchise, attention from the fans and media is imperative, because it helps fill the seats. In a two-sport town, that attention should be split evenly. Thatís not the reality in Kansas City, which is why the folks at Arrowhead would love to see the Royals get on a winning streak and take back some of the 24/7 sports spotlight.

The opinions offered in this column do not necessarily reflect those of the Kansas City Chiefs.

dave0320
04-06-2005, 07:39 AM
Way to go Blob, who the hell are you to sturr up the pot?

KCFalcon59
04-06-2005, 07:43 AM
BS....The Royals are more a product of the lack of revenue sharing than bad draft. Though they haven't done great drafting. Hell if they had the money to keep their best players I think we would have seen some winning seasons and a possible world series appearance.

kc rush
04-06-2005, 08:15 AM
Carl wanted the Chiefs to be talked about year round. More interest means more money.

You can't compare baseball and football, they are structured completely differently. Way to try to deflect blame.

By the way the Royals have won a championship since the Chiefs have.

The Bad Guy
04-06-2005, 08:15 AM
The Chiefs are stuck in the 90s. Every member of the organization references Carl's 90s record when they gave him an extension.

If spindoctoring on their official website translated into Super Bowl wins, the Chiefs would have claimed the last 10.

KingPriest2
04-06-2005, 08:17 AM
BS....The Royals are more a product of the lack of revenue sharing than bad draft. Though they haven't done great drafting. Hell if they had the money to keep their best players I think we would have seen some winning seasons and a possible world series appearance.


ROFL

shaneo69
04-06-2005, 09:07 AM
This is unbelievable. Gretz is publically begging for the Royals to have a good season in order to distract the media and KC sports fans from the Chiefs ineptness.

Note to Bob.....you can either have an average of 80,000 fans per game and constant media/fan scrutiny, or you can have 10,000 fans per game and no media/fan scrutiny. Which would you prefer?

Simplex3
04-06-2005, 09:16 AM
I remember hearing news reports about the Royals choosing their draft picks partially based on how much it will take to sign them. I'd say that's got to hurt their chances.

Dr. Facebook Fever
04-06-2005, 09:16 AM
By the way the Royals have won a championship since the Chiefs have.
SSSSMMMMAAACCCCKKKKKK DOWN!!!!!


:thumb:

milkman
04-06-2005, 09:18 AM
Comparing drafts is ridiculous.

When the NFL creates a real minor league system, and they have a chance to grow and develop players for years on the farm, then you can compare drafts.

jarjar
04-06-2005, 09:22 AM
This is a lousy article and a low blow.

The Bad Guy
04-06-2005, 09:35 AM
The fact that an NFL franchise has an article about a baseball team's failures there readers all they need to know about the mindset of the NFL team.

They want to pass the buck. It's like one kid getting a D- and his brother getting an F and the kid who got the D- saying, "well at least it wasn't an F."

Baseball drafts are FAR different than football ones. The Chiefs aren't competing with the Royals, they are competing with the 31 other NFL teams.

When the Chiefs realize spinning all these articles - from Rufus Douche to Bag-O-Donuts Gretz - is just pissing the fanbase off more.

If the Chiefs weren't a big fish in a small pond then this stuff wouldn't happen. Can you see any other NFL team comparing their draft failures to another sport?

It's stupidity.

Mike Grose
04-06-2005, 09:38 AM
Let's also remember that a lot of the baseball draft involves high school players.

Lets have the NFL start draft highschool kids and we'll see what the success average is.

tyton75
04-06-2005, 09:49 AM
this isnt' apples and apples... but regardless...

Gretz is stooping compare the chiefs draft to the WORST baseball team in the majors?!? is that the expectation nowadays for the Chiefs??

Here's to shoving a banana down Gretz' pants and letting a rabid, starving chimp loose on his @ss!

Phobia
04-06-2005, 10:45 AM
You know it's a really bad Gretz article when Titus, nmt1, and Gaz aren't in the thread defending the guy.

the Talking Can
04-06-2005, 10:48 AM
jesus....how many of these articles is CP going to pay Gaz to write?

Dr. Van Halen
04-06-2005, 10:51 AM
[QUOTE=tyton75]

Gretz is stooping compare the chiefs draft to the WORST baseball team in the majors?!? is that the expectation nowadays for the Chiefs??

QUOTE]

I agree. And yet ... Gretz is correct. The media constantly gives the Royals a free pass. I have heard KK in the space of an hour call CP a failure as a GM but AB a hard-working genius. I think this is probably the frustration this article stems from.

I share in this frustration. Not that I want the Chiefs to enjoy the kid glove treatment the Royals get, I just get tired of Chiefs-bashing to be the only vehicle for call-ins and ratings for the radio shows.

Phobia
04-06-2005, 10:56 AM
I agree. And yet ... Gretz is correct. The media constantly gives the Royals a free pass. I have heard KK in the space of an hour call CP a failure as a GM but AB a hard-working genius. I think this is probably the frustration this article stems from.

I share in this frustration. Not that I want the Chiefs to enjoy the kid glove treatment the Royals get, I just get tired of Chiefs-bashing to be the only vehicle for call-ins and ratings for the radio shows.

Hasn't the Royals franchise gone through a complete regime change from the Owner on down in the past 5 years? I'd imagine that's your difference.

When MLB institutes revenue sharing and a hard cap, get back to me Gretz. Apples and Oranges indeed.

Gosh, this Corvette outperforms the Neon even though they both have 4 wheels and come from Detroit.

CoMoChief
04-06-2005, 11:05 AM
I wish Ewing Kauffman was still alive because at least he was more of a baseball fan other than a businessman like Glass. Doesnt Glass have Walmart ties??? Last time I heard Walmart is one of the biggest companies in the world. I thought he had ties with the Walton family. You would think that he could have enough money to put together a team thats worthy of competing for the ALCentral Title, which may I add is the worst division in baseball. Remember they were talkin about downsizing the league and the Twinkies were the team that was talked about leaving the league? Then that year they went on the win the division and went to the playoffs? How come Glass doesnt man up and dish out some ****in dollars once in a while. And by that I mean not signing 15+ year veterans that are in the last couple years of "playing ablility" at a minot league level. Glass + Biard = Royal Disaster for Years to Come!!!

Dr. Van Halen
04-06-2005, 11:18 AM
Hasn't the Royals franchise gone through a complete regime change from the Owner on down in the past 5 years? I'd imagine that's your difference.

When MLB institutes revenue sharing and a hard cap, get back to me Gretz. Apples and Oranges indeed.

Gosh, this Corvette outperforms the Neon even though they both have 4 wheels and come from Detroit.

Does the media regularly acknowledge the Royals as the Neon? No. They exaggerate success, downplay bad moves, exonerate nice players, and try to pretend that the Neon could magically turn in to a Corvette if listeners wish hard enough. That's the crap that I'm tired of.

The Chiefs have been a very good, albeit disappointing team in the past 15 years.

The Royals have been a very bad team for 15 years.

You would at times think it the other way around when you listen to the radio.

Kyle401
04-06-2005, 11:28 AM
You know it's a really bad Gretz article when Titus, nmt1, and Gaz aren't in the thread defending the guy.

I usually don't react as badly to Gretz as most of the planet, but I have to admit this is pretty pathetic.

Brock
04-06-2005, 11:39 AM
You think we're bad, look at this team from a completely different sport.

That's ass.

CoMoChief
04-06-2005, 11:46 AM
Comparing drafts is ridiculous.

When the NFL creates a real minor league system, and they have a chance to grow and develop players for years on the farm, then you can compare drafts.

the NFL doesnt have the time to develope players like they have in MLB. NFL is obviously a more physical sport, therefore the career span in the NFL is about 6 years. A lot of people in MLB are in the Minor League system for that amount of time.

KCTitus
04-06-2005, 12:08 PM
You know it's a really bad Gretz article when Titus, nmt1, and Gaz aren't in the thread defending the guy.

Actually, I just read it and so for no one has offered any criticism that doesnt pass my BS test--which you term my 'defence of Gretz'.

More to the point of the article, the Royals dont get scrutiny in the same way that KC didnt in the 80's...they suck and will for the forseeable future. No one is passionate enough about that situation to give a damn.

His pleads for the Royals to win as a way to take the heat off the Chiefs I found quite telling, but everyone here missed it--not suprising--since most around here see the word 'Gretz' and get the vapors w/o actually absorbing the article.

nmt1
04-06-2005, 12:10 PM
I've given up trying to get people to improve their reading comprehension.

Iowanian
04-06-2005, 12:11 PM
Before Blob Gretz shouts in that Megaphone too much, comparing the Royals to the Chiefs.........I'd like to remind him, that the Royals, while having 1/3 of the salary on the field as their league competitors.............HAVE WON A CHAMPIONSHIP IN MY LIFETIME.

Phobia
04-06-2005, 12:16 PM
Actually, I just read it and so for no one has offered any criticism that doesnt pass my BS test--which you term my 'defense of Gretz'.

I'm sorry. My abbreviated commentary "defend" wasn't technically accurate but everyone else knew what I meant.

KCTitus
04-06-2005, 12:21 PM
I'm sorry. My abbreviated commentary "defend" wasn't technically accurate but everyone else knew what I meant.

Technically or not, it wasnt close, but that's ok...I realize that everyone wants to couch it in that term and Im outnumbered so the fallacy becomes fact through mere repetition. Calling BS on folks tends to cause extreme bouts of sandgina.

Calcountry
04-06-2005, 12:30 PM
I was going to post something, but I keep hitting the backspace key because, heck, you just don't have anything positive to talk about with respect to the Royals and I don't want to kick you guys when you are down. :)

shaneo69
04-06-2005, 01:00 PM
Actually, I just read it and so for no one has offered any criticism that doesnt pass my BS test--which you term my 'defense of Gretz'.

Reading this paragraph is like trying to decipher the meaning of the jingle, "Nobody doesn't like Sara Lee."

More to the point of the article, the Royals dont get scrutiny in the same way that KC didnt in the 80's...they suck and will for the forseeable future. No one is passionate enough about that situation to give a damn.

I agree, if by "KC" you mean Chiefs, not Royals.


His pleads for the Royals to win as a way to take the heat off the Chiefs I found quite telling, but everyone here missed it...

Define "telling." I'm not sure what you think everyone here missed in the article, but everyone I've read on this thread understands that Gretz is pleading with the Royals to win as a way to take the heat of the Chiefs, and most here agree that it's pretty pathetic. You disagree?

kc rush
04-06-2005, 01:07 PM
Does the media regularly acknowledge the Royals as the Neon? No. They exaggerate success, downplay bad moves, exonerate nice players, and try to pretend that the Neon could magically turn in to a Corvette if listeners wish hard enough. That's the crap that I'm tired of.

The Chiefs have been a very good, albeit disappointing team in the past 15 years.

The Royals have been a very bad team for 15 years.

You would at times think it the other way around when you listen to the radio.

There is a level of expectation. If the Royals had the same payroll as every other team in the league but continued to fail miserably, I would bet that the media would be all over them.

Besides, Carl and the Chiefs are pretty arrogant toward the media while the Royals FO is welcoming. Who do you think will get more positive coverage?

KCTitus
04-06-2005, 01:16 PM
Reading this paragraph is like trying to decipher the meaning of the jingle, "Nobody doesn't like Sara Lee."


Im not suprised you dont understand. If I explain it for the 1,000th time, do I have the slightest bit of faith you will 'understand' this time? I tend to think it's refusal, but at any rate, I dont mind criticism as long as it's not silly BS nonsense.

I agree, if by "KC" you mean Chiefs, not Royals.

I did.

Define "telling." I'm not sure what you think everyone here missed in the article, but everyone I've read on this thread understands that Gretz is pleading with the Royals to win as a way to take the heat of the Chiefs, and most here agree that it's pretty pathetic. You disagree?

I found his plead for the Royals to take some of the 'heat' as it were a more important point in the article--a telling insight confirming many's speculation of the insecurities of the Chiefs front office, yet no one commented on it. While it's possible most 'understand' none felt compelled to comment about it save for yourself--I think you and I agree about that, but to include 'everyone' is absurd.

The majority of the comments were, aimed at the two sports are not compatible to compare and the Royals had won a WS since the 60's...all valid criticisms, IMO as well.

LOL...WTF am I doing defending myself, I thought I was supposed to be 'defending' Gretz.

Bootlegged
04-06-2005, 01:31 PM
Im not suprised you dont understand. If I explain it for the 1,000th time, do I have the slightest bit of faith you will 'understand' this time? I tend to think it's refusal, but at any rate, I dont mind criticism as long as it's not silly BS nonsense.



I did.



I found his plead for the Royals to take some of the 'heat' as it were a more important point in the article--a telling insight confirming many's speculation of the insecurities of the Chiefs front office, yet no one commented on it. While it's possible most 'understand' none felt compelled to comment about it save for yourself--I think you and I agree about that, but to include 'everyone' is absurd.

The majority of the comments were, aimed at the two sports are not compatible to compare and the Royals had won a WS since the 60's...all valid criticisms, IMO as well.

LOL...WTF am I doing defending myself, I thought I was supposed to be 'defending' Gretz.


Ummm, okay.

KCTitus
04-06-2005, 01:38 PM
Ummm, okay.

Yeah, I know...but Phob's called me out and I felt compelled to respond.

Phobia
04-06-2005, 01:41 PM
Yeah, I know...but Phob's called me out and I felt compelled to respond.

Not really. You guys were just innocent bystanders in my stupid joke.

I think the Gretz threads are a hoot. I'll bet he gets a real kick out of them if he reads here. But they tend to become a bit repetitively redundant.

milkman
04-06-2005, 01:41 PM
I think the the economics of football as opposed to baseball create a situation where the fans and media are going to be more critical of the Chiefs than they are of the Royals, even if both teams were to field respectable lineups that can, with tweaking, contend.

Because of the salary cap, the Chiefs are are on an even footing with the rest of the NFL, so the only thing standing in the way of contending for, and/or winning a SB is talent evaluation and acquisition.

For the Royals, the biggest problem is competing with teams that have millions more to spend than they do.

So there isn't any way that the Royals can take the heat off of the Chiefs.

KCChiefsFan88
04-06-2005, 01:43 PM
This has to be the lowest Carl and his little ass kissing pet Gretz have stooped.

Taking shots at the only other major league sports team in town is pathetic and just shows how unprofessional the Chiefs are as an organization, which all starts from Carl Peterson and goes on down.

Do you see the Patriots attacking the Celtics or Red Sox?

The Eagles attacking the Phillies or 76ers?

Unlike the Chiefs those teams have their priorities straight.

Those who live in Trezelle Jenkins, Percy Snow, Pat Barnes, Sly Morris, Ryan Sims, Eddie Freeman, Mike Cloud, Matt Blundin, Kevin Lockett, Rashan Shehee, Eric Downings--- drafting organizations SHOULDN'T throw stones.

Spicy McHaggis
04-06-2005, 01:46 PM
Talk about an obscure and inaccurate comparison. How childish can you get?

KCTitus
04-06-2005, 02:05 PM
Not really. You guys were just innocent bystanders in my stupid joke.

I think the Gretz threads are a hoot. I'll bet he gets a real kick out of them if he reads here. But they tend to become a bit repetitively redundant.

Fair enough...I inferred another motivation.

I do agree, though, Gretz threads do get things hopping typically and they're fun.

Lzen
04-06-2005, 02:09 PM
This was a stupid article. I don't normally bag on Gretz but, this just sounds like he's trying to make excuses. How about we compare the Chiefs draft picks to other teams in the freakin' NFL!

Ari Chi3fs
04-06-2005, 02:14 PM
CHIEFS: LB Percy Snow, RB Harvey Williams, CB Dale Carter, RB Greg Hill, T Trezelle Jenkins, S Jerome Woods, TE Tony Gonzalez, T Victor Riley and T John Tait.
ROYALS: OF Joe Vitiello, INF Michael Tucker, P Jim Pittsley, P Jeff Granger, 1B/P Matt Smith, OF Juan LeBron, OF Dermal Brown, P Dan Reichart, P Jeff Austin and P Kyle Snyder.


but we got Lebron!!!

KCChiefsMan
04-06-2005, 02:20 PM
and we dont draft as badly as the Browns, Bengals or Cardinals either! now when we can figure out how to draft like the Ravens or Panthers we'd be set!

Dr. Van Halen
04-06-2005, 02:35 PM
This was a stupid article. I don't normally bag on Gretz but, this just sounds like he's trying to make excuses. How about we compare the Chiefs draft picks to other teams in the freakin' NFL!

Have you actually done this? Actually go and do research on an NFL draft history webpage (there are several out there), and I think you will be surprised to discover that the Chiefs are actually average at drafting, that every team has drafted a Trezelle Jenkins in their time, and that the draft is an enormous crapshoot that seldom works out well.

Dr. Van Halen
04-06-2005, 02:38 PM
Talk about an obscure and inaccurate comparison. How childish can you get?

Come on! Aren't you frustrated by the way the sports radio guys let the Royals off the hook for horrible moves all of the time? The Royals FO has made horrible decisions that have nothing to do with an uneven playing field, and they are not only exonerated outright, but continue to be hailed as brilliant!

The Royals were among the worst teams ever last year ... and what changed? Who was blamed?

Brock
04-06-2005, 02:48 PM
Come on! Aren't you frustrated by the way the sports radio guys let the Royals off the hook for horrible moves all of the time? The Royals FO has made horrible decisions that have nothing to do with an uneven playing field, and they are not only exonerated outright, but continue to be hailed as brilliant!

The Royals were among the worst teams ever last year ... and what changed? Who was blamed?

What part of "Nobody expects the Royals to be good at anything" don't you understand?

tk13
04-06-2005, 03:09 PM
This article is horrible. Wow. I mean if you're going to do this, why use draft picks solely from the 1990's? I haven't heard a single good reason for this. It's 2005, its been six seasons since any of these drafts... that is quite a long time. The current Royals GM/front office wasn't even in place during any of those first round picks.

At the same time, I'd like to know who the Chiefs have drafted that has been the equivalent of Carlos Beltran or Zack Greinke?

The reason that Gretz doesn't bring up the last 6 years is because the Royals have actually worked to fix the problem. As Phobia said, there was a regime change, and the first couple years of it wasn't real pretty, but in the last 3-4 years they have really focused on working to fix the problem. I think they've made better draft picks... we drafted Greinke in the first round a couple years ago, I don't know who the Chiefs drafted that'd be relavant to that talent-wise. Last year the Royals had a very good draft, drafted Billy Butler, who turned out to probably be the best hitter in the rookie leagues in the minors and was the only Baseball America Top 20 Hot Prospect from last year's draft for most of the season. They also drafted another quality pitcher in J.P. Howell from Texas in the first round. Then to help their drafts further, Allard Baird went and hired one of the Angels former top player personnel men who helped turn the Angels into one of the best farm systems in baseball. Baird is doing his best to surround the organization with the smartest baseball people he can find, Carl surrounds the Chiefs with people he's been friends with all through the years.

Just not a good piece. That doesn't even mention there are 50 rounds in the MLB draft and the while the value of the first round pick is very important, there are numerous other draft picks and avenues to add young talent. It's not comparable to a 7 round NFL draft in a league where trading for young prospects is not really promoted because of the salary cap. Then I haven't even gotten to the fact that he attacks the Royals, the team they should be working with to help get new stadiums/update the Truman Complex.

And as bad as the Royals have been, in the 2000's (the era Gretz leaves out of this discussion), the Chiefs have had exactly as many winning seasons as the Royals... in a league that promotes "parity" no less. If the Royals actually stooped to a level of having a hack writer attack people all the time (which they don't), I'd definitely be having them bring up that little tidbit...

Lzen
04-06-2005, 03:10 PM
Have you actually done this? Actually go and do research on an NFL draft history webpage (there are several out there), and I think you will be surprised to discover that the Chiefs are actually average at drafting, that every team has drafted a Trezelle Jenkins in their time, and that the draft is an enormous crapshoot that seldom works out well.


Have I actually done this? No. I don't have the time nor the patience to do that kind of research. I have always wondered how the Chiefs compare to the rest of the league in the draft category. I don't claim to know either way. But I would love to see it if someone else has already done it. Do you know of any good sites?

Chiefs Pantalones
04-06-2005, 03:14 PM
Gretz needs to stop. Dude is obsessed and can't take it that a crappy organization, one that he works for, is in the toilet, as far as winning goes...the most important thing when it comes to a professional team. Denial is ugly.

KCTitus
04-06-2005, 03:29 PM
Have I actually done this? No. I don't have the time nor the patience to do that kind of research. I have always wondered how the Chiefs compare to the rest of the league in the draft category. I don't claim to know either way. But I would love to see it if someone else has already done it. Do you know of any good sites?

Pick a team and I'll post their draft...I have a db that goes back to 1989. Let me know the years you want.

Dr. Van Halen
04-06-2005, 07:31 PM
Have I actually done this? No. I don't have the time nor the patience to do that kind of research. I have always wondered how the Chiefs compare to the rest of the league in the draft category. I don't claim to know either way. But I would love to see it if someone else has already done it. Do you know of any good sites?

Try http://www.nflhistory.net

It really cheered me up to go through and look at how poorly everyone does in the draft.