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View Full Version : Mountain Lion Killed in Iowa?!


Bill Lundberg
04-06-2005, 02:44 PM
Check this out. A friend of mine sent this to me and I can't believe it. He said a friend of a guy he works with killed it. I am not sure if it is bs or not. I know there has been a lot of talk about mountain lions in Iowa.

Bill Lundberg
04-06-2005, 02:44 PM
The pic

jspchief
04-06-2005, 02:45 PM
Yep, there are DNR confirmed sightings of mountain lions in IA. I think I heard an estimation of near 1000 of them.

htismaqe
04-06-2005, 02:46 PM
The Iowa DNR has been tracking the movements of a handful of lions for a couple years now.

Alot of the reports are bogus, but the DNR has verified that we DO have them.

Iowanian
04-06-2005, 02:47 PM
I've got some pals who work for DNR, and they say that the Majority of the reports are false. There have been confirmed sightings and kills. the pic I posted was confirmed, and there was one hit by a car, I'm thinking in Carol County.

2 guys I trust very much, who know wildlife say they watched one cross a hay field at a leisurely pace last fall, about a mile from my folks'....If they said it was a Mtn Lion...it was a mtn Lion.

I've got a pic of one A guy I know killed in Wayne County.

Bill Lundberg
04-06-2005, 02:50 PM
Pfftt. Wayne.. I never liked Wayne.

jspchief
04-06-2005, 02:50 PM
Heh. How'd you like to crawl up in your tree stand at the ass-crack of dawn and find one of those napping in your seat?

jcroft
04-06-2005, 02:51 PM
Why are people killing them? Are they being threatening?

Iowanian
04-06-2005, 02:52 PM
me neither........Though some of their girls were uh....friendly.


The thing that makes me suspicious of that pic being in IA, is that it looks like a Tag on the back leg....IA has no Season on Mtn Lions, so there are no fur bearer requirements or permits issued. If that is what it is, its BS.

The Mtn Lion I posted was killed near Confidence.....not too far from Lake Rathbun.

seclark
04-06-2005, 02:52 PM
Heh. How'd you like to crawl up in your tree stand at the ass-crack of dawn and find one of those napping in your seat?
or some old hound that thought he had a coon treed?
sec

Bill Lundberg
04-06-2005, 02:54 PM
me neither........Though some of their girls were uh....friendly.


The thing that makes me suspicious of that pic being in IA, is that it looks like a Tag on the back leg....IA has no Season on Mtn Lions, so there are no fur bearer requirements or permits issued. If that is what it is, its BS.

The Mtn Lion I posted was killed near Confidence.....not too far from Lake Rathbun.


I think that's the guys sock.

Iowanian
04-06-2005, 02:54 PM
jsp....I'd LOVE to have one of them come under my treestand.....while I was already set. I'd LOVE to arrow one of those.


I heard a story last year of a guy, before dawn sitting in the woods Turkey calling....He heard a big scramble of brush and saw something rushing in....leaves flew, sticks broke and the Bobcat that figured him out at the last second about turned itself inside out getting away..........thats enough to make Bill Braskey Pee, just a little bit.

jspchief
04-06-2005, 02:55 PM
Why are people killing them? Are they being threatening?

My guess is because they are legally classified as predators, much like coyotes.

I honestly don't know what the law is on hunting them. I think if one crossed my path, I'd probably kill it. That's a once in a lifetime opportunity, especially in IA where you don't use hounds or anything else to bag it.

htismaqe
04-06-2005, 02:55 PM
Roy, I think the two confirmed kills you mentioned are the only 2 in the state.

But the DNR said they have radios on up to 6 of them.

Iowanian
04-06-2005, 02:56 PM
Good Call....I think your'e right...Its a sock.

There are alot of states where they hunt these so I don't doubt that the pic is legit..........but its tough to say if it IS or ISN'T in iowa.....I DO know that its possible.

If the guy in that pic called the DNR, they'd tell him he's an idiot and it was only a yellow Lab.

I could send it to my buddy in the DNR....he'd know it if it were Bogus and making the rounds...He gets ALL of that stuff..Photoshopped Deer etc...

htismaqe
04-06-2005, 02:57 PM
My guess is because they are legally classified as predators, much like coyotes.

I honestly don't know what the law is on hunting them. I think if one crossed my path, I'd probably kill it. That's a once in a lifetime opportunity, especially in IA where you don't use hounds or anything else to bag it.

My parents used to raise Plott hounds. Around here, we used them to hunt racoons, and sometimes coyotes.

But we sold them all over the US, and there were guys that used them to hunt black bears and moutain lions.

CosmicPal
04-06-2005, 02:58 PM
Hmmm, mountain lions migrating to Iowa. Maybe biologists will start calling them cornfield lions. :shrug:

penguinz
04-06-2005, 02:59 PM
My guess is because they are legally classified as predators, much like coyotes.

I honestly don't know what the law is on hunting them. I think if one crossed my path, I'd probably kill it. That's a once in a lifetime opportunity, especially in IA where you don't use hounds or anything else to bag it.
You can not legally kill one just to kill it.

Iowanian
04-06-2005, 03:00 PM
Why are people killing them? Are they being threatening?


Farmers would want them dead because Cougars would kill Calves and sheep. They're easier targets than deer, turkey etc.

Rurul folks in particular wouldn't want them or wolves around for fear of attacks on kids.........Put it this way....my Folks' house is surrounded by 120 acres of timber. On any given day, you can see Turkey, Deer, Coyote, Racoons, bobcat.........or wolf or cougar.

There is a sand pile 20 yards from the edge of the timber.

Would you be comfortable with your small children out there, playing harmlessly most of the day, knowing that something big enough to drag them off were Prowling around?

I'd shoot it in a Second.........Stuff it with a Flying Turkey Mount and Put it in my man room.
Why? Because I'd be the Only futhermucker I know that Had one.


I've gotten this firsthand from the DNR....Officially, the Animal does not exist in IA....There is neither a season nor regulation on hunting the animal. you CAN legally kill a mtn Lion. Some Game officers would Encourage you to kill them, off the record.

Peng...in Iowa...you CAN kill a Cougar becuase "tis comin right for me'

jcroft
04-06-2005, 03:01 PM
My guess is because they are legally classified as predators, much like coyotes.

I honestly don't know what the law is on hunting them. I think if one crossed my path, I'd probably kill it. That's a once in a lifetime opportunity, especially in IA where you don't use hounds or anything else to bag it.

I'm not a hunter, so I guess I don't understand that mentality. As long as they're not endangered or anything (they're not), then I guess I have no real issue with it.

But there are LOTS of animals that are predators -- that doesn't mean they're going to harm you. All sharks, for example, are predators, and only a very small handful have been cited in unprovoked attacks on humans. Killing one just because it crosses your path seems a little harsh to me.

But like I said, I'm not a hunter.

jspchief
04-06-2005, 03:04 PM
I'm not a hunter, so I guess I don't understand that mentality.

Thats pretty much all that needs to be said. I understand that hunters and non-hunters don't always see eye to eye. I have also come to understand that it's like convincing a liberal to vote republican or vice versa.

It's just a hunter's mindset. Kind of hard to put into words.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 03:05 PM
Would you be comfortable with your small children out there, playing harmlessly most of the day, knowing that something big enough to drag them off were Prowling around?


No, but that's the risk we take when we enter the domain of any predatory animal known to attack humans (and I certainly wouldn't call a mountain lion a known man-eater -- sure, there have been attacks, but we are a much bigger threat to it than it is to us).


I'd shoot it in a Second.........Stuff it with a Flying Turkey Mount and Put it in my man room.
Why? Because I'd be the Only futhermucker I know that Had one.


I can understand that, I guess. I wouldn't want one myself, but I get the whole "just to say I did it" or "because I'm the only one that would have one" thing.

Chiefnj
04-06-2005, 03:05 PM
I shot one at a hundred yards with my 20 year old bow. :rolleyes:

jcroft
04-06-2005, 03:06 PM
Thats pretty much all that needs to be said. I understand that hunters and non-hunters don't always see eye to eye. I have also come to understand that it's like convincing a liberal to vote republican or vice versa.

It's just a hunter's mindset. Kind of hard to put into words.

Yep, I think you're right. I don't really object to hunting too much -- I just don't do it myself. As long as the species is abundant and appropriate safety measures are taken, I don't have much of a problem with it.

Iowanian
04-06-2005, 03:07 PM
Croft........Just imagine having that in your manroom.........You build a fire, sit back with a light beer and tell your Grandkids about how you killed that 6' tall mountain lion with your pocketknife....or or or....Fingernail Clippers!

MOhillbilly
04-06-2005, 03:07 PM
Why are people killing them? Are they being threatening?
who cares id kill em on sight no questions asked.

penguinz
04-06-2005, 03:08 PM
My guess is because they are legally classified as predators, much like coyotes.

I honestly don't know what the law is on hunting them. I think if one crossed my path, I'd probably kill it. That's a once in a lifetime opportunity, especially in IA where you don't use hounds or anything else to bag it.
You can not legally kill one just to kill it.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 03:09 PM
Croft........Just imagine having that in your manroom.........You build a fire, sit back with a light beer and tell your Grandkids about how you killed that 6' tall mountain lion with your pocketknife....or or or....Fingernail Clippers!

Heh. Nice.

Personally, I don't need animals in my man room. But that's okay, I can see why some people are into that.

ptlyon
04-06-2005, 03:09 PM
The pic

Looks like they're dancing

jspchief
04-06-2005, 03:09 PM
You can not legally kill one just to kill it.

Really? Says who?

I'm not saying you are right or wrong, I'd just like to know your source. So far, I've found little on the IA DNR site to say I can't. In fact, the article I read said the three confirmations they had were all cougars that had been shot.

Iowanian
04-06-2005, 03:09 PM
I shot one at a hundred yards with my 20 year old bow. :rolleyes:

thats nothing..........One time, I picked up this Old Arrow that Sec made me, stabbed it through a walnut and threw it like a Javelin at a Running jackalop and killed it by blunt force to the brain, saving all the meat, which I cooked on a fire I created by banging my engorged Unit on a flint rock.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 03:11 PM
who cares id kill em on sight no questions asked.

Why?

jspchief
04-06-2005, 03:13 PM
Here's an Iowa Department of Natural Resources article on the subject. Mountain Lions Rumors (http://www.iowadnr.com/news/04oct/mlion.html)

Sounds like they are pretty rare.

dirk digler
04-06-2005, 03:13 PM
Why?

Cause he is a hillbilly and that is what hillbillies do. :p

chiefs4me
04-06-2005, 03:14 PM
oh gosh......why kill a pretty kitty like that........:deevee:

MOhillbilly
04-06-2005, 03:14 PM
Why?

i dont want it in my area. And only a fool would think its ok to have one as a pseudo pet.
If a bobcat can take a deer down a MNT LION will drag you off and eat you your kids your live stock and your wildlife.

Iowanian
04-06-2005, 03:14 PM
Why?

Who wouldn't want a Couger-pecker Cane or a Mountain Lion Tail wind-stopper for the front door?

Iowanian
04-06-2005, 03:15 PM
Who wouldn't want a Couger-pecker Cane or a Mountain Lion Tail wind-stopper for the front door?


I don't have a racoon-dick Tooth pick, but I know a guy who can get you one of those too.

Bwana
04-06-2005, 03:16 PM
If you guys need more, you're welcome to come and get some of ours.

Simplex3
04-06-2005, 03:16 PM
Who wouldn't want a Couger-pecker Cane or a Mountain Lion Tail wind-stopper for the front door?
Uh, I vote "no" on the cat-cock-cane.

htismaqe
04-06-2005, 03:17 PM
Here's an Iowa Department of Natural Resources article on the subject. Mountain Lions Rumors (http://www.iowadnr.com/news/04oct/mlion.html)

Sounds like they are pretty rare.

That's the way I understood it.

The way I understand it, there have been TWO publicly-confirmed kills in Iowa.

About 95% of the all the phone reports of mountain lions in Iowa are either confirmed false or cannot be confirmed.

vailpass
04-06-2005, 03:17 PM
which I cooked on a fire I created by banging my engorged Unit on a flint rock.

:clap: ROFL

dirk digler
04-06-2005, 03:18 PM
I don't have a racoon-dick Tooth pick, but I know a guy who can get you one of those too.

You ought to send that to gochiefs. He would use it and probably in alot of different places.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 03:18 PM
i dont want it in my area. And only a fool would think its ok to have one as a pseudo pet.
If a bobcat can take a deer down a MNT LION will drag you off and eat you your kids your live stock and your wildlife.

No. If a bobcat can take a deer down then a mountain lion CAN drag you off and eat your kids. The fact that they CAN do it is very different than thinking they WILL do it.

dirk digler
04-06-2005, 03:19 PM
No. If a bobcat can take a deer down then a mountain lion CAN drag you off and eat your kids. The fact that they CAN do it is very different than thinking they WILL do it.

Why take the chance?

MOhillbilly
04-06-2005, 03:20 PM
No. If a bobcat can take a deer down then a mountain lion CAN drag you off and eat your kids. The fact that they CAN do it is very different than thinking they WILL do it.


yeah um dont care i got a .50 cal and a .25-06 and theyre meat cause only a FOOL would chance it.

dirk digler
04-06-2005, 03:21 PM
yeah um dont care i got a .50 cal and a .25-06 and theyre meat cause only a FOOL would chance it.

I wonder if they taste like chicken?

Simplex3
04-06-2005, 03:22 PM
No. If a bobcat can take a deer down then a mountain lion CAN drag you off and eat your kids. The fact that they CAN do it is very different than thinking they WILL do it.
It's not like mt. lions are a natural part of the Iowa food-chain. EnvironMENTAL activists should want them dead. Think of all the poor deer and bunnies they kill.

MOhillbilly
04-06-2005, 03:22 PM
I wonder if they taste like chicken?

id just cut the tail off and leave em lay.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 03:22 PM
Why take the chance?

Do kill everything that could potentially kill you?

MOhillbilly
04-06-2005, 03:24 PM
Do kill everything that could potentially kill you?

shit yeah.DUH!
ever think about what its like to be eaten alive.

ROYC75
04-06-2005, 03:24 PM
All I would say is," He came running at me , so I shot it ! "

Poor pussy.

Bwana
04-06-2005, 03:24 PM
No. If a bobcat can take a deer down then a mountain lion CAN drag you off and eat your kids. The fact that they CAN do it is very different than thinking they WILL do it.

Let me tell you something. When I'm up in the mountains around here, I worry more about mountain lions than I do bears. You don't want one of those things stalking you.

ChiefsOne
04-06-2005, 03:25 PM
There are Mt. Lions, cougars in Missouri. I have seen one with it's two kittens while deer hunting once. I have also seen two panthers at different times.

The game wardens/forest management people that say they aren't here or can't confirm it, are full of Sh!t.

PastorMikH
04-06-2005, 03:25 PM
yeah um dont care i got a .50 cal and a .25-06 and theyre meat cause only a FOOL would chance it.



You call yourself a hillbilly and you only got 2 shootin' irons???

:shake:


:)



The only thing that really bothers me with the first cougar pic is it's size. Either that guy is a really small guy or that cat is huge. We have cougars around here. People have told me to be really watchfull when I'm calling coyotes. They also tell me that if I shoot one to not say a word about it because they are illegal to shoot here.

Hoover
04-06-2005, 03:25 PM
From the Pic it looks like your friend is Saddam

dirk digler
04-06-2005, 03:26 PM
Do kill everything that could potentially kill you?


If I lived in the country and they were Mt. Lions roaming around my property I would cap their ass. I am not going to take the chance of one of them attacking my kids, no way.

jspchief
04-06-2005, 03:26 PM
No. If a bobcat can take a deer down then a mountain lion CAN drag you off and eat your kids. The fact that they CAN do it is very different than thinking they WILL do it.

There is certainly a "trophy" aspect to a lot of modern day hunters. I can honestly say the reason I would kill it is because "I can, and I may never get another opportunity to". I won't pretend it's out of some fear for my life or anyone else's, or to protect livestock (I have none). I just would like to say I had shot one. It's a hunter mentality. I'm sure it seems barbaric to many people who don't hunt.

MOhillbilly
04-06-2005, 03:29 PM
You call yourself a hillbilly and you only got 2 shootin' irons???

:shake:


:)



The only thing that really bothers me with the first cougar pic is it's size. Either that guy is a really small guy or that cat is huge. We have cougars around here. People have told me to be really watchfull when I'm calling coyotes. They also tell me that if I shoot one to not say a word about it because they are illegal to shoot here.

i am extrremely proficient.

i thought the same thing about that cat aswell its gotta go 200+

penguinz
04-06-2005, 03:33 PM
There are Mt. Lions, cougars in Missouri. I have seen one with it's two kittens while deer hunting once. I have also seen two panthers at different times.

The game wardens/forest management people that say they aren't here or can't confirm it, are full of Sh!t.
ummm aren;t a couger/Mt Lion and panther the same thing?

Bill Lundberg
04-06-2005, 03:36 PM
To quote from Duece Bigalow: "THAT'S A HUGE BITCH" "KEEP IT IN THE CIRCUS"

penguinz
04-06-2005, 03:37 PM
Really? Says who?

I'm not saying you are right or wrong, I'd just like to know your source. So far, I've found little on the IA DNR site to say I can't. In fact, the article I read said the three confirmations they had were all cougars that had been shot.
LEGAL STATUS
Eastern cougars (now known as Puma concolor couguar) and the Florida panther (now known as Puma concolor coryi) are fully protected under the Endangered Species Act. Because no one can visually distinguish these subspecies from other possible cougar subspecies in the woods, and because even DNA analysis cannot define a genetic profile for the eastern cougar subspecies, all cougars living wild in the east must be considered protected under the Act from all harm and harassment. Source (http://www.easterncougar.org/)

ChiefsOne
04-06-2005, 03:38 PM
Mt. Lion and cougar are the same, yellow.

Panther is black.

Edubs
04-06-2005, 03:38 PM
I hate hunting.

jspchief
04-06-2005, 03:40 PM
LEGAL STATUS
Eastern cougars (now known as Puma concolor couguar) and the Florida panther (now known as Puma concolor coryi) are fully protected under the Endangered Species Act. Because no one can visually distinguish these subspecies from other possible cougar subspecies in the woods, and because even DNA analysis cannot define a genetic profile for the eastern cougar subspecies, all cougars living wild in the east must be considered protected under the Act from all harm and harassment.

Is Iowa in the East? It's west of the Mississippi.

Iowanian
04-06-2005, 03:40 PM
penquin
"all cougars living wild in the east "

the midwest, south, Great Plains and West don't count.

Iowanian
04-06-2005, 03:41 PM
I hate hunting.

Good, thats less hunting pressure in the Woods I want to Hunt. Convinve 2-300 of your closest friends to keep out also. Their footprints on the Hiking trails and scent bother the wildlife.

Bill Lundberg
04-06-2005, 03:41 PM
Just found out its a fake...

http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/mountainlion.asp#photo

It's still a huge bitch!

Simplex3
04-06-2005, 03:42 PM
Source (http://www.easterncougar.org/)
They can't tell the difference genetically but they can tell if you killed a protected one or not? Only the govt. could come up with something that f**king stupid.

ptlyon
04-06-2005, 03:42 PM
Just found out its a fake...

http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/mountainlion.asp#photo

It's still a huge bitch!

AW MAN!!! All this for nothing?!?!?

penguinz
04-06-2005, 03:47 PM
penquin
"all cougars living wild in the east "

the midwest, south, Great Plains and West don't count.
Fine. HERE (http://www.mdc.mo.gov/documents/nathis/mammals/mlion/missouri_mlion.pdf) is another source that says they are protected.Mt. Lion and cougar are the same, yellow.

Panther is black.The same source states that a couger and panther are the same thing.

Iowanian
04-06-2005, 03:49 PM
Cougar/mountain Lion/panther...same
Bobcat-Different.

Moutnain lions Are NOT protected in Iowa.

Simplex3
04-06-2005, 03:50 PM
Cougar/mountain Lion/panther...same
Bobcat-Different.

Moutnain lions Are NOT protected in Iowa.
If it was protected it wouldn't die when you shot it, right?

jcroft
04-06-2005, 03:51 PM
shit yeah.DUH!
ever think about what its like to be eaten alive.

Even people?

jcroft
04-06-2005, 03:51 PM
Let me tell you something. When I'm up in the mountains around here, I worry more about mountain lions than I do bears. You don't want one of those things stalking you.

I'm all for killing it is it's threatening you. I just am not in favor of killing things for the sake of killing them.

bogie
04-06-2005, 03:52 PM
There is certainly a "trophy" aspect to a lot of modern day hunters. I can honestly say the reason I would kill it is because "I can, and I may never get another opportunity to". I won't pretend it's out of some fear for my life or anyone else's, or to protect livestock (I have none). I just would like to say I had shot one. It's a hunter mentality. I'm sure it seems barbaric to many people who don't hunt.

Not all hunters have this mentality. I've hunted for over 30 years. My general rule of thumb is, if I can't cook it, I won't shoot it. I own 3 rifles, 3 shotguns and 3 pistols and a compound bow. I have used everyone of them to take meat. I don't own a gun that I don't hunt with. I don't kill just for the thrill of killing. I'm not saying it isn't a thrill to kill, but there are also other reasons that I kill animals. That being said, if I had a lion like this walk under my tree, I would shoot it. I have a 7 year old little girl that loves to hike in the woods. I don't want to take a chance on her becoming somethings lunch.

penguinz
04-06-2005, 03:52 PM
Wether it is protected or not it is stupid to kill any animal just to kill it. (unless it is a domestic house cat :P)

MOhillbilly
04-06-2005, 03:52 PM
Even people?

only dead men let others get the drop.
strike first stike hard and youll always win.

jspchief
04-06-2005, 03:53 PM
Fine. HERE (http://www.mdc.mo.gov/documents/nathis/mammals/mlion/missouri_mlion.pdf) is another source that says they are protected.The same source states that a couger and panther are the same thing.

That's a nice link to MO law. It still doesn't apply to Iowa though.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 03:53 PM
There is certainly a "trophy" aspect to a lot of modern day hunters. I can honestly say the reason I would kill it is because "I can, and I may never get another opportunity to". I won't pretend it's out of some fear for my life or anyone else's, or to protect livestock (I have none). I just would like to say I had shot one. It's a hunter mentality. I'm sure it seems barbaric to many people who don't hunt.

Actually, I get that. There are things I do just because I want to, or to say I did. I respect that, and I thank you for being honest and not fronting as if you really think they thing is going to kill you if you don't kill it first.

penguinz
04-06-2005, 03:54 PM
Not all hunters have this mentality. I've hunted for over 30 years. My general rule of thumb is, if I can't cook it, I won't shoot it. I own 3 rifles, 3 shotguns and 3 pistols and a compound bow. I have used everyone of them to take meat. I don't own a gun that I don't hunt with. I don't kill just for the thrill of killing. I'm not saying it isn't a thrill to kill, but there are also other reasons that I kill animals. That being said, if I had a lion like this walk under my tree, I would shoot it. I have a 7 year old little girl that loves to hike in the woods. I don't want to take a chance on her becoming somethings lunch.
I agreed with everything you said here until the last sentence. A dog down the streat is just as likely to attack your girl as a mountain lion is.

jspchief
04-06-2005, 03:57 PM
Not all hunters have this mentality. I've hunted for over 30 years. My general rule of thumb is, if I can't cook it, I won't shoot it. I own 3 rifles, 3 shotguns and 3 pistols and a compound bow. I have used everyone of them to take meat. I don't own a gun that I don't hunt with. I don't kill just for the thrill of killing. I'm not saying it isn't a thrill to kill, but there are also other reasons that I kill animals. That being said, if I had a lion like this walk under my tree, I would shoot it. I have a 7 year old little girl that loves to hike in the woods. I don't want to take a chance on her becoming somethings lunch.

I said "a lot of hunters", not "all hunters". No question some people only kill what they eat.

Even if it's the desire to kill a buck over a doe when whitetail hunting, it's still trophy hunting. Personally, I don't have a problem with trophy hunting, but it's not something I do on a large scale. I've certainly shot a lot more does than bucks.

penguinz
04-06-2005, 03:58 PM
That's a nice link to MO law. It still doesn't apply to Iowa though.From what I have found about Iowa the DNR is in the process of gettign legislation passed to protect them. ;)

MOhillbilly
04-06-2005, 03:58 PM
Actually, I get that. There are things I do just because I want to, or to say I did. I respect that, and I thank you for being honest and not fronting as if you really think they thing is going to kill you if you don't kill it first.

but if you new the dog was a man biter and the owner was a dumbass and had it run your ground w/ no supervision what would you do?
how safe would you feel about your kids pets ect?

jspchief
04-06-2005, 03:59 PM
From what I have found about Iowa the DNR is in the process of gettign legislation passed to protect them. ;)

So you are admitting that you were wrong then? Thanks for clarifying.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 04:01 PM
but if you new the dog was a man biter and the owner was a dumbass and had it run your ground w/ no supervision what would you do?
how safe would you feel about your kids pets ect?

If a dog was threatening me, I'd do whatever I had to do to not get attacked. I once kicked a german shepard in the face. If I'd had a gun, I would have shot the thing.

Same goes for a mountain lion -- if it's threatening me, I'll shot it. But I'm not going to shot it simply because I see it somewhere near my property.

penguinz
04-06-2005, 04:02 PM
So you are admitting that you were wrong then? Thanks for clarifying.
Was I wrong about the protection of cougers in Iowa? yes.

MOhillbilly
04-06-2005, 04:03 PM
Wait just a sec. there is a big damn diffrence between hunting and protecting livestock and family period.

My dad WAS NOT a hunter but would roll a dog w/ his 12 if it ran cattle no questions asked no second chances.
tuff shit what the owners thought.
Now thats a domesticated animal think about what a super predator would do.

IMO they are extremely dangerous and settlers feared and killed them off for a reason.let them stay gone.

MOhillbilly
04-06-2005, 04:04 PM
Same goes for a mountain lion -- if it's threatening me, I'll shot it. But I'm not going to shot it simply because I see it somewhere near my property.

ah see they dont threaten. and having one near your property is a danger in itself.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 04:05 PM
Wait just a sec. there is a big damn diffrence between hunting and protecting livestock and family period.


Protect your livestock and family when they are threatened. There is no need to protect them just because a dog, or mountain lion, walks through your property. If the predator does something that makes you think they are going to do damage, then fire away. Until then, lay off.

That's my opinion.

Iowanian
04-06-2005, 04:05 PM
This is totally going to turn into a vagitarian vs meateater thread.



I love wild animals.........They are Great with White Flour Gravy.

Too bad I didn't get a tag for the baby seal clubbing this year.

bogie
04-06-2005, 04:05 PM
I agreed with everything you said here until the last sentence. A dog down the streat is just as likely to attack your girl as a mountain lion is.

That's true. However, I don't have a fear of that happening. I wouldn't keep my daughter from going out in the woods at night because there has been a dog sighted on our farm. I would keep her in if there were mountain lion sightings. On a related note, we had some dogs that were packing up on our farm. My father and I spotted the pack and we shot the biggest dog in the pack and that broke up the pack. Even domestic dogs can become dangerous when they pack up.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 04:06 PM
ah see they dont threaten. and having one near your property is a danger in itself.

How? How is a mountain lion walking through your backyard hurting you?

chiefs4me
04-06-2005, 04:06 PM
Wether it is protected or not it is stupid to kill any animal just to kill it. (unless it is a domestic house cat :P)





:spank:

penguinz
04-06-2005, 04:07 PM
Protect your livestock and family when they are threatened. There is no need to protect them just because a dog, or mountain lion, walks through your property. If the predator does something that makes you think they are going to do damage, then fire away. Until then, lay off.

That's my opinion.
Nice to see there is someone here that thinks before reacting.

Iowanian
04-06-2005, 04:08 PM
How? How is a mountain lion walking through your backyard hurting you?

If A Man in a black ski mask walks through your back yard, do you just let him pass or stand there, since he's not Robbing you or a neighbor at the time?

If a dog is in with our cattle, cruising around or actively chasing them...It can expect to exit the earth at 280 grains per second.


I need to get a new tennis racket..............to go shine a light on Birds in the Hay mow and club them when they fly at the light.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 04:08 PM
This is totally going to turn into a vagitarian vs meateater thread.



I love wild animals.........They are Great with White Flour Gravy.

Too bad I didn't get a tag for the baby seal clubbing this year.

I don't think so. I'm not a vegetarian or an environmentalist type. I just don't get the idea behind killing something if it's not for sport or for self-defense.

chiefs4me
04-06-2005, 04:09 PM
How? How is a mountain lion walking through your backyard hurting you?


I am not into killing either...but my brother,husband,cousins,sons all hunt and what you just wrote is stupid. I have a 3 year old son and I am not gonna let the big kitty just stroll thru my backyard.:harumph:

penguinz
04-06-2005, 04:10 PM
If A Man in a black ski mask walks through your back yard, do you just let him pass or stand there, since he's not Robbing you or a neighbor at the time?

If a dog is in with our cattle, cruising around or actively chasing them...It can expect to exit the earth at 280 grains per second.


I need to get a new tennis racket..............to go shine a light on Birds in the Hay mow and club them when they fly at the light.There is no relation to a man in a ski mask and a couger.

Lzen
04-06-2005, 04:10 PM
Do kill everything that could potentially kill you?

Have you never lived in the country?

jcroft
04-06-2005, 04:10 PM
If A Man in a black ski mask walks through your back yard, do you just let him pass or stand there, since he's not Robbing you or a neighbor at the time?

If a dog is in with our cattle, cruising around or actively chasing them...It can expect to exit the earth at 280 grains per second.


I need to get a new tennis racket..............to go shine a light on Birds in the Hay mow and club them when they fly at the light.

A man is a black ski mask would appear to be a robber. I shoot.

A mountain lion walking through my property in no way indicates he intends to hurt anyone or anything. If he dons a black ski mask, then I'll shoot.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 04:11 PM
I am not into killing either...but my brother,husband,cousins,sons all hunt and what you just wrote is stupid. I have a 3 year old son and I am not gonna let the big kitty just stroll thru my backyard.:harumph:

Even if your son is safely inside?

penguinz
04-06-2005, 04:11 PM
I am not into killing either...but my brother,husband,cousins,sons all hunt and what you just wrote is stupid. I have a 3 year old son and I am not gonna let the big kitty just stroll thru my backyard.:harumph:
Again. The large dog down the street is just as likely, if not more, to hurt your son as a couger.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 04:12 PM
Have you never lived in the country?

No, I haven't. But I've lived in the city, and I don't kill every black man that looks like a thug just because they've been known to kill people once in a while.

penguinz
04-06-2005, 04:12 PM
If he dons a black ski mask, then I'll shoot.
ROFL

Iowanian
04-06-2005, 04:12 PM
Ok...Lets narrow some specifics down.

Is it acceptable to kill the following animals
1. A strange dog/cat in your yard, with matted eyes and foam in the corners of the mouth, walking unbalanced?
2. An Oppossum/Racoon that is digging in your garbage, scattering it in the yard
3. A coyote, in the vicinity of newborne calves
4.Pidgeons who the neighbor feeds that crap on your vehicle daily.....or in a barn, crapping on your $xxx,xxx equipment

5. A mouse, who is harmlessly living in your home

Iowanian
04-06-2005, 04:13 PM
A man is a black ski mask would appear to be a robber. I shoot.
.

Ah... but if he isn't INSIDE your home, with a weapon of equal force...you can't legally shoot him either.


I didn't climb my way to the top of the food chain to eat Salad.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 04:16 PM
Ah... but if he isn't INSIDE your home, with a weapon of equal force...you can't legally shoot him either.


I didn't climb my way to the top of the food chain to eat Salad.

I'm not concerned about the law. If something appears to be threatening me, I'll shoot it (or I would, if I had a gun). If something doesn't seem threatening all all, I won't. Simple as that.

I wouldn't shoot a guy in a black ski mask JUST because he's wearing a black ski mask. But if I could ascertain that this guy is planning to rob or otherwise threaten me, then sure.

Iowanian
04-06-2005, 04:16 PM
There is no relation to a man in a ski mask and a couger.

really? Both are out of place in Iowa. Both are potential threats to my property, livestock and or children playing outside..........but Aren't hurting anything at the time.


Don't hunt if you don't want to, but keep your arse out of my gun cabinet.

Lzen
04-06-2005, 04:17 PM
I agreed with everything you said here until the last sentence. A dog down the streat is just as likely to attack your girl as a mountain lion is.


This is ignorance. The dog down the street is most likely fed by his owner every day. A mountain lion is not fed by anyone. Therefore, it needs to hunt. If it sees a small child, it will try to eat it.

Iowanian
04-06-2005, 04:18 PM
If the dog down the street is in my yard, and I think a threat to my property or family...I send it to Dog-hell too.

Might even sell it to Chung Lao and let him turn it into Generow tao chikun.

MOhillbilly
04-06-2005, 04:18 PM
A man is a black ski mask would appear to be a robber. I shoot.

A mountain lion walking through my property in no way indicates he intends to hurt anyone or anything. If he dons a black ski mask, then I'll shoot.
what about a black man in a white hood walking through your back yard.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 04:18 PM
Ok...Lets narrow some specifics down.

Is it acceptable to kill the following animals
1. A strange dog/cat in your yard, with matted eyes and foam in the corners of the mouth, walking unbalanced?
2. An Oppossum/Racoon that is digging in your garbage, scattering it in the yard
3. A coyote, in the vicinity of newborne calves
4.Pidgeons who the neighbor feeds that crap on your vehicle daily.....or in a barn, crapping on your $xxx,xxx equipment

5. A mouse, who is harmlessly living in your home

1. Not just because it's in your yard. if you're kids are out there, okay. Otherwise, just call the animal patrol.
2. I'd say no. It doesn't do any good. There are more where that one came from, so killing it isn't going to prevent it from happening again. just scare the thing off.
3. Again, not just because it's in the vicinity. If it appears to be going after your calves, then okay. But not just because it's nearby. Even predators aren't always in a hunting mode, you know.
4. In this case, I'd shoot the neighbor. :)

bogie
04-06-2005, 04:20 PM
In the country, there is a chance that the mountain lion spotted on your property has taken up residence there. It's not like it's a back yard and it's just passing through. That lion has nothing exciting to do with it's time except look for things that it can catch and eat. Children walking through the woods are a fairly easy target. The dog down the street has a big ole' bowl of alpo waiting for him and most likely is not spending it's spare time looking for something to eat.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 04:21 PM
This is ignorance. The dog down the street is most likely fed by his owner every day. A mountain lion is not fed by anyone. Therefore, it needs to hunt. If it sees a small child, it will try to eat it.

That's completely untrue. There is ZERO evidence that a mountain lion has a taste for humans. The ONLY reason a mountain lion would attack a human is if it feels provoked or feels as through it's territory has been invaded. There is almost no animal on this planet that CHOOSES to eat human meat. We're are are bony and aren't a good source of food. We get attacked by animals because of territorialism, mistaken identity, or provocation. Not because they want to eat us.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 04:21 PM
what about a black man in a white hood walking through your back yard.

Would I kill him? Of course not. Are you insane?

Lzen
04-06-2005, 04:21 PM
No, I haven't. But I've lived in the city, and I don't kill every black man that looks like a thug just because they've been known to kill people once in a while.

Oh.....my.....gosh... Did you just pull the race card?
:shake: Apples and oranges.

MOhillbilly
04-06-2005, 04:21 PM
1. Not just because it's in your yard. if you're kids are out there, okay. Otherwise, just call the animal patrol.
2. I'd say no. It doesn't do any good. There are more where that one came from, so killing it isn't going to prevent it from happening again. just scare the thing off.
3. Again, not just because it's in the vicinity. If it appears to be going after your calves, then okay. But not just because it's nearby. Even predators aren't always in a hunting mode, you know.
4. In this case, I'd shoot the neighbor. :)

HELL YOU ARE CRAZY.

Iowanian
04-06-2005, 04:22 PM
2. Doesn't do any good?

A year ago, there was a problem with garbage being torn and scattered in a certain neighborhood. 2 neighbors got together, 5 oppossums passed away unexctedly over a week, and strangely enough...the litter problem slowed substantially.
3....So you WAIT UNTIL the coyote KILLS the $400 calf, which you have no way of recouping the value...even though, Coyotes are KNOWN to kill said new calves?

You'd not make a very profitable farmer my friend.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 04:22 PM
In the country, there is a chance that the mountain lion spotted on your property has taken up residence there. It's not like it's a back yard and it's just passing through. That lion has nothing exciting to do with it's time except look for things that it can catch and eat. Children walking through the woods are a fairly easy target. The dog down the street has a big ole' bowl of alpo waiting for him and most likely is not spending it's spare time looking for something to eat.

Okay, you could be right (except where you said it would want to "eat" you children). But why not just call animal control and have them remove the thing?

jcroft
04-06-2005, 04:23 PM
Oh.....my.....gosh... Did you just pull the race card?
:shake: Apples and oranges.

It was a joke, dog. Calm yourself. :)

MOhillbilly
04-06-2005, 04:23 PM
That's completely untrue. There is ZERO evidence that a mountain lion has a taste for humans. The ONLY reason a mountain lion would attack a human is if it feels provoked or feels as through it's territory has been invaded. There is almost no animal on this planet that CHOOSES to eat human meat. We're are are bony and aren't a good source of food. We get attacked by animals because of territorialism, mistaken identity, or provocation. Not because they want to eat us.

whos territory?
mine.

dirk digler
04-06-2005, 04:23 PM
If the dog down the street is in my yard, and I think a threat to my property or family...I send it to Dog-hell too.

Might even sell it to Chung Lao and let him turn it into Generow tao chikun.

ROFL

ROFL

Iowanian
04-06-2005, 04:24 PM
That's completely untrue. There is ZERO evidence that a mountain lion has a taste for humans. The ONLY reason a mountain lion would attack a human is if it feels provoked or feels as through it's territory has been invaded. There is almost no animal on this planet that CHOOSES to eat human meat. We're are are bony and aren't a good source of food. We get attacked by animals because of territorialism, mistaken identity, or provocation. Not because they want to eat us.

I think I need to go hunt down the articles from California a month ago where 2 hikers were found that had been mauled and killed by Mountain lions...and buried like a half eaten deer, that they'd eat later.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Mountain+Lion+Attack&btnG=Google+Search

HemiEd
04-06-2005, 04:24 PM
We're are are bony and aren't a good source of food.


I had never thought about this, that is really very interesting!

jcroft
04-06-2005, 04:25 PM
2. Doesn't do any good?

A year ago, there was a problem with garbage being torn and scattered in a certain neighborhood. 2 neighbors got together, 5 oppossums passed away unexctedly over a week, and strangely enough...the litter problem slowed substantially.
3....So you WAIT UNTIL the coyote KILLS the $400 calf, which you have no way of recouping the value...even though, Coyotes are KNOWN to kill said new calves?

You'd not make a very profitable farmer my friend.

2. Seems odd. I would think there'd be plenty more than five, wherever they came from. But okay, at least you had a reason to shoot them -- they were being a nuisance (unlike a mountain lion simply passing through).

3. No, I want to wait until it is obvious it's GOING to kill your calves. Just being in the vicinity is not evidence it's in the mood to hunt your calves.

I'd probably not make a very profitable farmer, and that's okay by me. :)

Lzen
04-06-2005, 04:25 PM
That's completely untrue. There is ZERO evidence that a mountain lion has a taste for humans. The ONLY reason a mountain lion would attack a human is if it feels provoked or feels as through it's territory has been invaded. There is almost no animal on this planet that CHOOSES to eat human meat. We're are are bony and aren't a good source of food. We get attacked by animals because of territorialism, mistaken identity, or provocation. Not because they want to eat us.

Can you prove this or are you just talking out of your ass once again? I know I've seen news footage on mountain lions tracking groups of people and attacking children.

Bill Lundberg
04-06-2005, 04:26 PM
Here's how I see it.

City People = Non Killers

Country Boys = Killers

I like to hunt and still get a huge rush out of the kill. Oddly enough I grew up in the country and now live in the city. In the country it's not uncommon to have your livestock killed by coyotes, or have your family pet torn to shreds by a predator. Both happened to me growing up. But City folk, just don't realize that there are threats from wildlife. They only see what they watch on the Animal Planet or Discovery Channel and don't have any real world experiences with killing something that threatens your way of life.

Iowanian
04-06-2005, 04:26 PM
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/2752128/detail.html
Authorities shot and killed a 2-year-old male cat hours later near where the man's body was found, and were "pretty confident" it was the animal that attacked, said Steve Martarano, a spokesman for the California Fish and Game Department.

Following Thursday's attack, the 13th such incident in California since 1890, the 110-pound mountain lion was to be taken to a laboratory where a necropsy will be performed.

Shortly after 4:30 p.m. Thursday in Whiting Ranch Wilderness Park, a mountain lion pounced on a woman who was riding a bicycle with her friend, said Capt. Stephen Miller of the Orange County Fire Authority.

The lion grabbed Ann Hjelle, 30, by her head and began dragging her. Her friend, Debi Nichols, began screaming for help and grabbed the victim's legs in a struggle to free her.

"This mountain lion jumped on her back and started dragging her," Nichols said. "He dragged us down ... about 100 yards into the brush and I just kept screaming. This guy would not let go. He had a hold of her face."

Several other mountain bikers responded, throwing rocks at the animal until it fled.

"I picked up a rock and threw it at the cat and the rock hit the cat right on the side of the head and the cat took off straight ahead and let go of the woman," Diego Lopez said.

Michael Castellano, one of the mountain bikers who helped rescue Hjelle, said mountain lion sightings are not uncommon in the park.

"I've seen mountain lions before and usually you'll come around a corner and they're more scared of you than anything, and they skitter off into the bushes," Castellano said Friday in an interview on NBC "Today." "This mountain lion was hunting and I don't now why. I've never seen behavior like that. It was just unreal."

Hjelle was flown by helicopter to Mission Hospital where she was in critical condition early Friday, a nursing supervisor said.

Later, the body of an unidentified man in his 30s was found at the top of a trail, near an unattended bicycle. Authorities told reporters that they had not confirmed that the man was killed by the mountain lion, but it seemed probable . An autopsy was scheduled for Friday.

"We don't know how long he's been out there," Miller said. "But it's pretty obvious that an animal was involved in this (death)."

Officials closed the park to the public until it could be confimed that the killer cat had been killed. Including Thursday's incident, there have been 13 mountain lion attacks on humans in California over the past 114 years, said Doug Updike, a biologist with California Fish and Game Department. In those cases, there were five fatalities, he said.

"The probability of somebody being attacked by a lion is extremely rare," Updike said. "There is a better chance of being struck by lightning than being attacked by a lion."

Thursday's attack was in a southern Orange County park adjacent to the communities of Foothill Ranch and Portola Hills and Cleveland National Forest.

Last September, game wardens shot and wounded an aggressive mountain lion spotted near an equestrian center in San Juan Capistrano. The lion was later found and killed, state officials said.

In 1986, 5-year-old Laura Small was attacked while looking for tadpoles with her mother in Ronald W. Caspers Wilderness Park in Orange County.

The girl's mother was able to rescue her daughter whose skull was partially crushed by the mountain lion's jaws. She was left blind in one eye and paralyzed on her right side.

Months later, a 6-year-old boy was mauled in the same park. County supervisors closed most of the park to children for nearly a decade. The ban was lifted in December 1997.

Three years later, a state law was passed prohibiting people from hunting or killing mountain lions.

The threat of mountain lions has become an increasing problem in Southern California as development encroaches upon rural areas that have been home to various animals.

Updike estimates there are between 4,000 and 6,000 adult lions roaming the Golden State, with usually five to seven mountain lions per 100 square miles.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 04:26 PM
I think I need to go hunt down the articles from California a month ago where 2 hikers were found that had been mauled and killed by Mountain lions...and buried like a half eaten deer, that they'd eat later.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Mountain+Lion+Attack&btnG=Google+Search

They're territorial. They were KILLED, but not for food. They were killed because they were in their territory.

Granted, most animals will scavage, so once they've killed you they might eat you, but they're not after humans for food. That's absurd.

Iowanian
04-06-2005, 04:27 PM
Allow me to focus on one quote

"The lion grabbed Ann Hjelle, 30, by her head and began dragging her. Her friend, Debi Nichols, began screaming for help and grabbed the victim's legs in a struggle to free her.

"This mountain lion jumped on her back and started dragging her," Nichols said. "He dragged us down ... about 100 yards into the brush and I just kept screaming. This guy would not let go. He had a hold of her face."

Several other mountain bikers responded, throwing rocks at the animal until it fled.

"I picked up a rock and threw it at the cat and the rock hit the cat right on the side of the head and the cat took off straight ahead and let go of the woman," Diego Lopez said.

Michael Castellano, one of the mountain bikers who helped rescue Hjelle, said mountain lion sightings are not uncommon in the park.

"I've seen mountain lions before and usually you'll come around a corner and they're more scared of you than anything, and they skitter off into the bushes," Castellano said Friday in an interview on NBC "Today." "This mountain lion was hunting and I don't now why. I've never seen behavior like that. It was just unreal."

Hjelle was flown by helicopter to Mission Hospital where she was in critical condition early Friday, a nursing supervisor said.

Later, the body of an unidentified man in his 30s was found at the top of a trail, near an unattended bicycle. Authorities told reporters that they had not confirmed that the man was killed by the mountain lion, but it seemed probable . An autopsy was scheduled for Friday."

jcroft
04-06-2005, 04:28 PM
Can you prove this or are you just talking out of your ass once again? I know I've seen news footage on mountain lions tracking groups of people and attacking children.

I watch a lot of documentaries on predators. I'm quite confident in what I'm saying here. I don't have a link off the top of my head, but I could probably produce one.

Mountain lions have certainly attacked humans -- but not for food. Usually because they are territorial.

Lzen
04-06-2005, 04:28 PM
They're territorial. They were KILLED, but not for food. They were killed because they were in their territory.

Granted, most animals will scavage, so once they've killed you they might eat you, but they're not after humans for food. That's absurd.


Bullshit. No offense but, it is my opinion that you, sir, are an idiot. :shake:

Bill Lundberg
04-06-2005, 04:30 PM
They're territorial. They were KILLED, but not for food. They were killed because they were in their territory.

Granted, most animals will scavage, so once they've killed you they might eat you, but they're not after humans for food. That's absurd.


Think about what you just said...

Are we not allowed to be territorial as humans? How's that any different from us killing a cat that crosses our territory? Answer - It's not.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 04:31 PM
Bullshit. No offense but, it is my opinion that you, sir, are an idiot. :shake:

Do you have any evidence for calling bullshit on me? Tell me why in the world a 150 lion would attack a two year old for food? It's ridiculous. Humans, compared to most animals, have almost no meant on our bones.

Iowanian
04-06-2005, 04:31 PM
3. No, I want to wait until it is obvious it's GOING to kill your calves. Just being in the vicinity is not evidence it's in the mood to hunt your calves.

:)

You obviously have NO idea on this topic.

On my family farm, We've lost calves to Coyotes(overnight, calf is born, killed and eaten before daylight), chickens killed by Dogs, coyotes, racoons and a badger.

If a Coyote is in the area........Its looking for something to eat, shit on, or a place to take a nap. If Its not napping or squatting........and even if it were, it deserves a round to the vitals and to be hung on a fence post.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 04:32 PM
Think about what you just said...

Are we not allowed to be territorial as humans? How's that any different from us killing a cat that crosses our territory? Answer - It's not.

Of course it's not. The difference is that humans are the most evolved species and we are supposed to be able to think critically before we act. If you want to stoop to the level of a territorial cat and/or a caveman, be my guest.

Brando
04-06-2005, 04:33 PM
You obviously have NO idea on this topic.

On my family farm, We've lost calves to Coyotes(overnight, calf is born, killed and eaten before daylight), chickens killed by Dogs, coyotes, racoons and a badger.

If a Coyote is in the area........Its looking for something to eat, shit on, or a place to take a nap. If Its not napping or squatting........and even if it were, it deserves a round to the vitals and to be hung on a fence post.

Jesus...grow some stones and do that the next GoQueefs comes around will ya? He's always shitting on threads.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 04:33 PM
You obviously have NO idea on this topic.

On my family farm, We've lost calves to Coyotes(overnight, calf is born, killed and eaten before daylight), chickens killed by Dogs, coyotes, racoons and a badger.

If a Coyote is in the area........Its looking for something to eat, shit on, or a place to take a nap. If Its not napping or squatting........and even if it were, it deserves a round to the vitals and to be hung on a fence post.

I concede that I have no idea about coyotes and farms and calves. You are probably right on all accounts. As long as you're not killing the napping or shitting coyote, I won't complain.

Iowanian
04-06-2005, 04:33 PM
An innocent Kitty, just walking through a field, minding its own business until....BLAM!!!! its got Trigger by the Jugular.

"
A mountain lion attacked a horse near the Stanford University campus, university officials said Tuesday.

Stanford officials are warning the public about the Friday attack, and police have posted warnings in the area advising people not to hike alone and to avoid bending over or crouching.

Authorities said the horse was in a fenced area at Felt Ranch near Felt Lake when the large cat attacked it around 1 p.m. Friday. Officials with the state Department of Fish and Game examined the injured horse and determined its injuries must have been caused by a mountain lion. The horse is expected to fully recover.

Experts suggest anyone who encounters a mountain lion should not run but rather try to frighten it off. "

MOhillbilly
04-06-2005, 04:34 PM
You obviously have NO idea on this topic.

On my family farm, We've lost calves to Coyotes(overnight, calf is born, killed and eaten before daylight), chickens killed by Dogs, coyotes, racoons and a badger.

If a Coyote is in the area........Its looking for something to eat, shit on, or a place to take a nap. If Its not napping or squatting........and even if it were, it deserves a round to the vitals and to be hung on a fence post.

nuff said.

Bwana
04-06-2005, 04:34 PM
I hate hunting.

Good, then I guess I won't be seeing you out in the field.

HemiEd
04-06-2005, 04:34 PM
Maby these Critters need counciling?

Iowanian
04-06-2005, 04:35 PM
http://www.ci.boulder.co.us/openspace/nature/lions_bears.htm

Report Mountain Lion Sightings - follow this link.

Remember:

Every situation is different with respect to the mountain lion, the terrain, the people and their activity.

DO NOT RUN! This may only instigate the lionís instinct to chase a moving target. Food -- like deer or small animals -- runs away. If you run, you look more like food to the mountain lion.
Give the lion some room. If the lion sees you, give it rooom to escape. In nearly ALL cases, the lion will try to get away from you. This also works as time for you to calm down and think clearly.
Look as large as possible. Place your arms over your head, lift backpacks over your head or open your jacket wide.
Small children: put them behind you or directly in front of you. This makes them look instantly larger. Teach children to get next to you immediately if you encounter a lion while hiking.
NEVER let children out of your sight. Children are small enough that they may become a target for a hungry lion. Make sure your kids know what to do if they see a lion.
Talk to the lion softly.
Back away VERY SLOWLY, if the terrain allows.
Donít turn your back. You should be aware of what it is doing.
Don't make eye contact. Instead, look at the animalís front feet. You will then always know where the lion is standing and what direction it is moving.
If attacked, fight back. Use anything you have close to you - rocks, sticks, binoculars, walking stick, fists, anything.
Keep pets on a leash in areas where there has been recent lion activity. This lessens the chance of your pet meeting a lion on the trail. Dogs may then run back to you seeking safety, drawing the lion closer to you.

Bill Lundberg
04-06-2005, 04:36 PM
Of course it's not. The difference is that humans are the most evolved species and we are supposed to be able to think critically before we act. If you want to stoop to the level of a territorial cat and/or a caveman, be my guest.


You just don't get it. It's not about stooping to the level of a cat. It's about protecting ourselves and our territory. I'm smart enough to know that should a Mountain Lion enter my backyard to feed on one of my dogs, calves, sheep, whatever; and I just shoo it away. It will keep coming back until I kill it or it kills me, my dog, my cat, calves, sheep, whatever.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 04:37 PM
A mountain lion attacked a horse near the Stanford University campus, university officials said Tuesday.

Now THAT is probably killed for food.

Duck Dog
04-06-2005, 04:37 PM
They're territorial. They were KILLED, but not for food. They were killed because they were in their territory.

Granted, most animals will scavage, so once they've killed you they might eat you, but they're not after humans for food. That's absurd.


Not trying to be smart ass, but how do you know? Have you studied them? Maybe you have, I don't know. What I do know is predators are alway's on the look out for a meal. They also almost alway's kill for their food. Just because we aren't as tasty as a small calf, rabbit or duck doesn't mean a hungry lion won't kill you for food. If the cat is hungry and you are jogging past on a trail you might just trigger a response from him. I've read nothing to the contrary.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 04:38 PM
NEVER let children out of your sight. Children are small enough that they may become a target for a hungry lion. Make sure your kids know what to do if they see a lion.

Sensationalism. Children may be a target, but it won't be for food.

bogie
04-06-2005, 04:38 PM
Okay, you could be right (except where you said it would want to "eat" you children). But why not just call animal control and have them remove the thing?

Problem is, there's a chance that by the time the game warden or whoever got there, the lion would be gone. Gone doesn't mean off of your property, just out of sight. If I'm out on my property, and I see the lion and I don't know where the rest of my family is (maybe my kid is down at the lake playing, or at the barn watching the calves run around) I would shoot it immediately. I can't assume the lion will leave my kid alone. Honestly, if I new 100% the lion could be captured and released safely, I would prefer that.

MOhillbilly
04-06-2005, 04:38 PM
jcroft do you feel the same about wild hogs? same arguments as the cats.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 04:39 PM
You just don't get it. It's not about stooping to the level of a cat. It's about protecting ourselves and our territory. I'm smart enough to know that should a Mountain Lion enter my backyard to feed on one of my dogs, calves, sheep, whatever; and I just shoo it away. It will keep coming back until I kill it or it kills me, my dog, my cat, calves, sheep, whatever.

In most places (but apparently not Iowa), if you see a mountain lion, there are plenty more where it came from. You can't possibly kill the entire population.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 04:39 PM
Problem is, there's a chance that by the time the game warden or whoever got there, the lion would be gone. Gone doesn't mean off of your property, just out of sight. If I'm out on my property, and I see the lion and I don't know where the rest of my family is (maybe my kid is down at the lake playing, or at the barn watching the calves run around) I would shoot it immediately. I can't assume the lion will leave my kid alone. Honestly, if I new 100% the lion could be captured and released safely, I would prefer that.

I can live with that. If you know people to be outside and unsafe, then fine, shoot it. I have no objection.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 04:41 PM
jcroft do you feel the same about wild hogs? same arguments as the cats.

I don't know anything about wild hogs, but my feeling is basically the same for all animals:

People shouldn't kill them unless it's for:

1. Self defense.
2. Legal sport.
3. In defense of their livestock.

MOhillbilly
04-06-2005, 04:42 PM
I don't know anything about wild hogs, but my feeling is basically the same for all animals:

People shouldn't kill them unless it's for:

1. Self defense.
2. Legal sport.
3. In defense of their livestock.

what about just knowing they are there and they will damage and destroy.
ever seen a 350# boar hog?

jcroft
04-06-2005, 04:43 PM
http://www.mountainlion.org/facts_faq.asp#4

WHAT DO I NEED TO KNOW ABOUT HUMAN/COUGAR INTERACTION?

If you or someone you know lives in mountain lion territory, simple measures can be taken to prevent human-lion interactions. According to the Department of Fish & Game, one of the most important tips is: do not go into mountain lion territory by yourself. Go with a friend or bring a dog. Always take a friend with you when you camp, hike or backpack in wild areas.


Even when lions are encountered, they rarely pose a threat. Most cougars prefer to avoid human beings. Read these " Safety Tips " to know what to do in case you ever encounter a mountain lion.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 04:44 PM
what about just knowing they are there and they will damage and destroy.
ever seen a 350# boar hog?

Nope, can't say that I have.

bogie
04-06-2005, 04:51 PM
Sensationalism. Children may be a target, but it won't be for food.

I'm not sure it matters why the lion kills.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 04:53 PM
I'm not sure it matters why the lion kills.

It doesn't, except that Lzen called bullshit when I said that almost no predators attack humans for food.

Thus, the suggestion that a "hungry" lion is more dangerous than a "well-fed" one is absurd.

stumppy
04-06-2005, 04:54 PM
Sensationalism. Children may be a target, but it won't be for food.


You're possitive about that ?

jcroft
04-06-2005, 04:57 PM
You're possitive about that ?

Honestly, no. I watch a lot of documentaries on predatory animals and know that nearly all attacks on humans are a case of provocation, mistaken identity, or territorialism. I'm not especially familiar with mountain lions in particular, so it's possible I could be wrong. However, I've been Googling and haven't found any evidence that lions actually have a taste for human flesh. If this is true, it would be VERY unique in the world of predatory animals.

So I'm not positive, but I've be willing to bet a large sum on it.

MOhillbilly
04-06-2005, 04:58 PM
it is not a predator a predator is the lady next doors cat.

It is a super predator on par w/ the very very top of the food chain.

and its a wild animal.


im out.

bogie
04-06-2005, 04:59 PM
It doesn't, except that Lzen called bullshit when I said that almost no predators attack humans for food.

Thus, the suggestion that a "hungry" lion is more dangerous than a "well-fed" one is absurd.

I believe a hungry lion is more likely to kill. Maybe it will take a bite out of a human and spit it out. But I gotta believe it'll still take a taste test.

vailpass
04-06-2005, 04:59 PM
Sensationalism. Children may be a target, but it won't be for food.

You seem like a nice guy with concern for the big kittys. Nothing wrong with that. But by all means make sure you and yours NEVER live in the country. You have been removed from mother nature for too long and have NO IDEA what you are talking about when it comes to predators. Predators seek meat when hungry; the easiest prey is what they will take first. Like calves, or little kids.

Your statements are not based on fact but on emotions.

You would be the first one looking for the biggest rifle you could lay hands to when you saw your little girl being drug off into the woods on her way to becoming a predator cat's lunch.

htismaqe
04-06-2005, 05:01 PM
Do you have any evidence for calling bullshit on me? Tell me why in the world a 150 lion would attack a two year old for food? It's ridiculous. Humans, compared to most animals, have almost no meant on our bones.

On the flip-side, why would a 150-pound lion feel threatened or provoked by a 2-year old? That is, after all, the basic tenent of your argument.

In all seriousness, mountain lions probably don't attack with food on their mind.

But they're EXTREMELY territorial. They'll attack just about anything that crosses their path, including little kids.

Chief Henry
04-06-2005, 05:05 PM
Wait just a sec. there is a big damn diffrence between hunting and protecting livestock and family period.

My dad WAS NOT a hunter but would roll a dog w/ his 12 if it ran cattle no questions asked no second chances.
tuff shit what the owners thought.
Now thats a domesticated animal think about what a super predator would do.

IMO they are extremely dangerous and settlers feared and killed them off for a reason.let them stay gone.


Growing up on the farm in NW Iowa we raised alot of pigs and fat cattle.
We had stray cats all the dam time. I can't begin to tell you how many stray cats I shot with our 410. BLAM. One less cat, one less chance of getting psuedo rabies in your hog lot.

I shot over the head of many dogs. SOmetimes they needed a 2nd and 3rd warning shot. Eventually they got the hint. But cats never go the warning shots :)

Duck Dog
04-06-2005, 05:09 PM
Not sure if anyone has posted this or not.

Snopes:
According to a news release from the Kansas Department of Wildlife and Parks (KDWP), this picture appeared in the Fall 2003 issue of Fair Chase magazine (a Boone and Crockett Club publication dedicated to hunting and conservation of North American big game) and actually depicts a mountain lion taken near Seattle, Washington:

chiefs4me
04-06-2005, 05:09 PM
Even if your son is safely inside?





I live in Texas....so my sons are hardly ever inside. To answer your question, if I let him in my backyard once......he is gonna be back.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 05:09 PM
it is not a predator a predator is the lady next doors cat.

It is a super predator on par w/ the very very top of the food chain.

and its a wild animal.


im out.

HUMANS are the top of the food chain. Period.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 05:10 PM
I believe a hungry lion is more likely to kill. Maybe it will take a bite out of a human and spit it out. But I gotta believe it'll still take a taste test.

There are a handful of animals that will "taste test" (the Tiger Shark comes to mind). Most will not. I'm not sure on the mountain lion.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 05:12 PM
On the flip-side, why would a 150-pound lion feel threatened or provoked by a 2-year old? That is, after all, the basic tenent of your argument.

In all seriousness, mountain lions probably don't attack with food on their mind.

But they're EXTREMELY territorial. They'll attack just about anything that crosses their path, including little kids.

You answered your own question. They wouldn't be threatened or provoked by a two year old -- they would, however, feel that it was invading their territory.

Duck Dog
04-06-2005, 05:12 PM
It doesn't, except that Lzen called bullshit when I said that almost no predators attack humans for food.

Thus, the suggestion that a "hungry" lion is more dangerous than a "well-fed" one is absurd.

You certainly don't believe that do you? 'Cuz, if you do, I gotta say, that's absurd.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 05:13 PM
You certainly don't believe that do you? 'Cuz, if you do, I gotta say, that's absurd.

I do believe it. If you think I'm wrong, prove it.

Duck Dog
04-06-2005, 05:13 PM
You answered your own question. They wouldn't be threatened or provoked by a two year old -- they would, however, feel that it was invading their territory.


"And"...you could continue...."will not pass up an easy meal."

Duck Dog
04-06-2005, 05:14 PM
I do believe it. If you think I'm wrong, prove it.

Well, why don't you prove you're right?

stumppy
04-06-2005, 05:16 PM
So I'm not positive, but I've be willing to bet a large sum on it.

You see, it's not that easy. You don't seem to realize that when you have an animal like a Mt.Lion in YOUR territory and you do not kill it then it's not money you are gambling with. Your are in fact gambling with peoples lives.


On one hand : Mtn lion running around, and you get to have that ' I feel sooooo good about myself for not killing it and allowing mother nature to take it's course'.

On the other : I don't think I'll gamble with my childrens lives or my own.
Kill it.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 05:17 PM
"And"...you could continue...."will not pass up an easy meal."

I could, but that would be inaccurate.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 05:18 PM
Well, why don't you prove you're right?

I can't find any information on reason WHY mountain lions attack. I can't find anything that says that don't attack for food, but I can't find anything that says they do either. Maybe you'll have better luck.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 05:19 PM
You see, it's not that easy. You don't seem to realize that when you have an animal like a Mt.Lion in YOUR territory and you do not kill it then it's not money you are gambling with. Your are in fact gambling with peoples lives.


On one hand : Mtn lion running around, and you get to have that ' I feel sooooo good about myself for not killing it and allowing mother nature to take it's course'.

On the other : I don't think I'll gamble with my childrens lives or my own.
Kill it.

I'm not saying you should let mother nature take it's course. I'm just saying that if it's not threatening, then a call to the animal control department would be much more humane. I'm certainly not suggesting you should just let it run wild.

Valiant
04-06-2005, 05:25 PM
There are Mt. Lions, cougars in Missouri. I have seen one with it's two kittens while deer hunting once. I have also seen two panthers at different times.

The game wardens/forest management people that say they aren't here or can't confirm it, are full of Sh!t.


Thats because they were released back into the wild about five years ago... They also track the parents and their migration... This is from a former coworker who is now a forrest ranger...

Duck Dog
04-06-2005, 05:25 PM
I can't find any information on reason WHY mountain lions attack. I can't find anything that says that don't attack for food, but I can't find anything that says they do either. Maybe you'll have better luck.

Then why are you arguing about it if it's just your opinion?

I could care less one way or another. I just know predators don't pass up easy meals. I hunt and trap them and have learned a great deal about them as a whole over the years. We spend a lot of time and money insuring they don't get to our duck and goose nests. Outside of one sighting, I have zero experience with mountain lions. But it is my opinion that if a hungry cat found himself in a position to take down a human for consumption, they would.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 05:28 PM
Then why are you arguing about it if it's just your opinion?


It's not my opinion. It's based on what I know to be true of most predatory animals. I've seen stuff on big cats that leads me to this belief. However, I can't find that info online where I could provide a link. I've seen it in documentaries, though, so I don't consider it to be my opinion.

badgirl
04-06-2005, 05:30 PM
I'm not saying you should let mother nature take it's course. I'm just saying that if it's not threatening, then a call to the animal control department would be much more humane. I'm certainly not suggesting you should just let it run wild.
well I don't care what it is a dog, lion, or human, if something comes into my yard and i feel its gonna harm my kids I'll kill it, I don't care if its the last of its kind on earth.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 05:34 PM
badgranny-

I have no problem with that. if you feel like it's going to harm your kids, then by all means kill it. That's what I've been saying all along.

Duck Dog
04-06-2005, 05:41 PM
It's not my opinion. It's based on what I know to be true of most predatory animals. I've seen stuff on big cats that leads me to this belief. However, I can't find that info online where I could provide a link. I've seen it in documentaries, though, so I don't consider it to be my opinion.


Read my lips. (Well, you know what I mean)

Predators are opportunists. They will not pass on an easy meal. This is the only fact you should be concerned with.

Carry on.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 05:45 PM
Read my lips. (Well, you know what I mean)

Predators are opportunists. They will not pass on an easy meal. This is the only fact you should be concerned with.

Carry on.

I agree completely. However, humans are NOT a meal. We are skin and bones.

Mike Grose
04-06-2005, 05:49 PM
Took a loooong time to wade my way to the end of the thread, but I think I am ready to finally respond.

JCroft,
There have been numerous conformed cases of big cats stalking humans. There have been numerous and increasingly common confirmed cases of humans attacked, killed, and consumed by big cats.

You can name the motivation what you wish, but the attacks are occurring.

I find it very interesting that the confrontations are increasing the most in areas that have curtailed hunting of the cougars. The environmentalists all say that it is because of expansion and reduction range. Maybe.

But we also have increasing populations of cats, increasing numbers of deer (the primary natural food for mountain lions) in urban areas, and dwindling open areas. It is only natural that the cats will spread due to population pressures.

Now you compound all of this with a reduced fear of humans by restricted hunting of the animals and you have trouble.

There is a common aphorism that "a fed bear is a dead bear." That is because they come to look on people as sources of food.

If the animal has no learned fear of humans, sooner or later they will see us as slow, thin-skinned, deer.

If I see mountain lion while I am out hunting. I'll take it down and never touch the thing. Mountain lions are reclusive enough that is I see one, it is because it has lost sufficient fear to allow itself to be seen.

I consider that to be a dangerous animal.

Bill Lundberg
04-06-2005, 05:52 PM
So if humans are skin and bones and horses are a meal one could assume the following...

Humans = Chicken Wings (Admit it one chicken wing isn't much of a meal)

Horses = T-Bone Steak

So a bike trail to a mountain lion is like a hooters without the waitresses!! :) :)

Duck Dog
04-06-2005, 05:52 PM
If I see mountain lion while I am out hunting. I'll take it down and never touch the thing. Mountain lions are reclusive enough that is I see one, it is because it has lost sufficient fear to allow itself to be seen.

I consider that to be a dangerous animal.

Well said.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 05:53 PM
Mike-

Nice reply! I am aware of the cases of big cats stalking humans. Most certainly the attacks are occurring. I wouldn't argue that at all. Towards the end of this thread, I was only discussing the motivation (which is, really, quite irrelevant).

What you said at the end was brilliant: "If I see mountain lion while I am out hunting. I'll take it down and never touch the thing. Mountain lions are reclusive enough that is I see one, it is because it has lost sufficient fear to allow itself to be seen."

That is so true. However, it implies that the animal sees you. If the animal sees you and doesn't back off, I'd be scared. If you are inside your house and see one walking through your backyard (and it doesn't see you), then you have no reason to be scared into shooting it.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 05:54 PM
Well said.

Wow, at least we agree on something. He stated my point. Glad you agree.

Duck Dog
04-06-2005, 05:54 PM
hooters without the waitresses!! :) :)

Blasphemy I tell ya!

Duck Dog
04-06-2005, 05:57 PM
Wow, at least we agree on something. He stated my point. Glad you agree.


No. Your point, from what I could tell, is that lions will not kill you for food. I think a hungry cat will kill you for food. He doesn't know we don't have much meat.

Then again it really doesn't matter if he wants to eat you or just wants to roll you around like a ball of yarn.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 06:04 PM
No. Your point, from what I could tell, is that lions will not kill you for food. I think a hungry cat will kill you for food. He doesn't know we don't have much meat.

Then again it really doesn't matter if he wants to eat you or just wants to roll you around like a ball of yarn.

I was discussing motivation for attacks recently. Long before that, I was saying that it's inhumane to kill a lion just because it's there. On the other hand, if it's being threatening, go ahead and kill it.

If the lion sees you and doesn't retreat, then that is threatening behavior.

I still disagree that a lion will kill you for food. I think it can most certainly tell how meaty we are. However, as you said (and I have said in previous posts), this is irrelevant. When a human is attacked, the human probably really doesn't care WHY.

The only relevance in studying the REASON for an attack is to prevent them in the future. If, for example, lions won't attack humans for food, then feeding lions is not a good prevention measure.

Cochise
04-06-2005, 06:08 PM
Don't know if this has been mentioned, but a year or two ago (seems like) I saw on the local news here in KC that one had been hit and killed on I-29. They had pics of the body, it was a mountain lion. Don't know how common they are down here or anything though, can't be very common.

jcroft
04-06-2005, 06:10 PM
Don't know if this has been mentioned, but a year or two ago (seems like) I saw on the local news here in KC that one had been hit and killed on I-29. They had pics of the body, it was a mountain lion. Don't know how common they are down here or anything though, can't be very common.

No, you'd think not very common at all. I'd imagine that any mountain lion found in the KC are is either a zoo escapee, a run-away pet, or very, very lost.

Mike Grose
04-06-2005, 06:11 PM
The meaty argument is not terribly convincing as a fawn (mighty tender eating I must add) has a lot less meat on it's bones than a 6 year-old, much less a 110 pound woman.

If the predator can kill it, it has enough meat.

Let's remember than the fattest tabby will kill if the opportunity arises. You run fat, slow, ugly deer (us) past that mountain lion enough times, sooner or later he'll start to wonder.

We're a lot meatier than rabbits. Think a lion would pass up one of those because they're just too lean?

jcroft
04-06-2005, 06:14 PM
We're a lot meatier than rabbits. Think a lion would pass up one of those because they're just too lean?

You think we're less meaty than rabbits, pound-for-pound? I don't know for sure, but I'd think the rabbit would have more meat per square inch...

Mike Grose
04-06-2005, 06:18 PM
No, you'd think not very common at all. I'd imagine that any mountain lion found in the KC are is either a zoo escapee, a run-away pet, or very, very lost.

I knew that would be brought up sooner or later.

The MDOC here said it must have been a tame animal released or escaped from captivity. They examined the carcass and determined the animal had never been captive. Seems captive animals develop callouses from laying on artificial surfaces. This one had none and had deer remains in its belly.

That was the first time MDNR admitted that there were wild mountain lions in Missouri. With a carcass laying on the side of the road and film crews broadcasting, they had a hard time denying it.

Shortly after that, they published the rules under which mountain lions could be killed for protection of stock or human safety.

The funny thing is right after MDOC said it must have been the only lion in the state, another one got struck and killed on Highway 63 north of Columbia.

Isn't it funny that the only 2 mountain lions in MO got killed just outside of major urban centers?

jcroft
04-06-2005, 06:19 PM
Interesting, Mike. Thanks!

CosmicPal
04-06-2005, 06:20 PM
I believe I posted this on the Planet, but last summer I went hiking in Roxborough State Park located about 40 mins SW of Denver.

I get to the park entrance and the ranger is in his post. I give him money to enter the park when he leans out and says, "Eh, today is yer lucky day."
"Why's that?"
"We've had sevroll people say they spotted a muther bear and her two cubs."
I interrupted him, "Oh really! Nice."
The ranger continued, "AND, they spotted a mountain lion!"
"Grrrrreat. Thanks for the info."

The entire hiking trek had me freaked out with every broken branch and wind-blown tree.

Mike Grose
04-06-2005, 06:28 PM
You think we're less meaty than rabbits, pound-for-pound? I don't know for sure, but I'd think the rabbit would have more meat per square inch...

I saw some pics recently of the lower torso of a hunter. HE had been stripped to the bone from the tops of his tennis shows to his pubic bone.

It was one of the most horrifying things I've ever seen. Frankly made me slightly ill for a couple of days whenever I thought about it.

There is nothing special about our meat or skin. We're thin-skinned and full of fat. If predators were to get over their fear of us, we'd probably be their favorite food.

Most predators have a fear of humans learned from adults from centuries of indoctrination. It isn't instinctive. If they lose it, we may not be safe in the woods for centuries to come.

If you have any doubt, coyotes are starting to be seen stalking children in California and New Jersey.

Mike Grose
04-06-2005, 06:29 PM
Speaking of chilren, time to go pick mine up. That's for the conversation.

Iowanian
04-06-2005, 07:08 PM
I agree completely. However, humans are NOT a meal. We are skin and bones.

This is ABSURD.

Polar and Kodiac Bears in Alaska are KNOWN to hunt, kill and Eat Humans.

SE Asia and Africa have many reports of HUMANS being EATEN by Tigers, Lions, Hyena....Boa Constrictors, Anacondas.......

Skin and Bones have Muslce between them..........The same stuff, when taken from a cow, becomes that Ground Round your wife is fixing right now.

The Gist of your counter arguement seems to be "The things you all have seen when Hunting, trapping in the field for xxyears is inaccurate, because I've seen something ON TV."

Thats equivilent to me saying "Hey Will Shields, Cut blocking is illegal and doesn't happen in Games, because I saw an interview with Paul Tagliabu that says its illegal and doesn't happen"

:"Hey Phildo the contractor........You're wrong on the estimate on my kitchen Remodel, because I watched Trading spaces, and their neighbors painted their house in 1hr, including commercials"

Ultra Peanut
04-06-2005, 07:29 PM
I have cats. They like me, of course, which is a plus, but I know full well that anything that's a much bigger, badder version of them is ****ing dangerous.

They (and all big cats, really) are truly amazing animals, but damn, I wouldn't want to run into one in the wild. I can't say I could really blame anyone for killing one if they came across it.

Iowanian
04-06-2005, 07:36 PM
Psi...the difference is, that your cats like you because you put peanut butter on your "scratching post"

Its sick, twisted and Dangerous

Bwana
04-06-2005, 07:38 PM
I still disagree that a lion will kill you for food. I think it can most certainly tell how meaty we are. However, as you said (and I have said in previous posts), this is irrelevant.


You don't get out much do you? How many time have you been up in the mountains or seen a mountain lion?

Ultra Peanut
04-06-2005, 07:38 PM
Psi...the difference is, that your cats like you because you put peanut butter on your "scratching post"

Its sick, twisted and DangerousI've only been to the emergency room three times, and not once in the last four months.

Admit it! It was a brilliant idea, and you wish you had come up with it first!

Iowanian
04-06-2005, 07:41 PM
I suppose your tackle is sufficiently calloused from your many hours home alone with Saved by the Bell poolside episodes.

LiL stumppy
04-06-2005, 08:13 PM
Phh its a Liger

Valiant
04-06-2005, 08:21 PM
I knew that would be brought up sooner or later.

The MDOC here said it must have been a tame animal released or escaped from captivity. They examined the carcass and determined the animal had never been captive. Seems captive animals develop callouses from laying on artificial surfaces. This one had none and had deer remains in its belly.

That was the first time MDNR admitted that there were wild mountain lions in Missouri. With a carcass laying on the side of the road and film crews broadcasting, they had a hard time denying it.

Shortly after that, they published the rules under which mountain lions could be killed for protection of stock or human safety.

The funny thing is right after MDOC said it must have been the only lion in the state, another one got struck and killed on Highway 63 north of Columbia.

Isn't it funny that the only 2 mountain lions in MO got killed just outside of major urban centers?


It is because we released them... We have them down at Stockton... Only reason I believe this is from what my friend said from a earlier post...

JOhn
04-06-2005, 08:38 PM
You don't get out much do you? How many time have you been up in the mountains or seen a mountain lion?
Yea but also remember, Bears are cute & cuddly:shake:

Chiefnj
04-06-2005, 08:56 PM
Predatory animals don't look for meatiness. They don't have that type of thought process. For example, if you hunt with a hawk, the hawk will grab a squirrel or rabbit or pheasant. When you run up on the hawk, to get it to "give" you the prey you toss a small amount of red meat to the hawk and it will leave the squirrel/rabbit and grab the small amount of meat. In that brief instant you must grab the prey and stuff it into a pouch - quickly, before the hawk turns back around.

In that split instant the animal was looking for instant satisfaction. It didn't sit there on top of the rabbit and say "gee that's a small piece of meat, I've got 100x that amount under my talons. I'm not leaving."

Lzen
04-06-2005, 09:38 PM
Honestly, no. I watch a lot of documentaries on predatory animals and know that nearly all attacks on humans are a case of provocation, mistaken identity, or territorialism. I'm not especially familiar with mountain lions in particular, so it's possible I could be wrong. However, I've been Googling and haven't found any evidence that lions actually have a taste for human flesh. If this is true, it would be VERY unique in the world of predatory animals.

So I'm not positive, but I've be willing to bet a large sum on it.

Well guess what. I, too, have watched a ton of documentaries and such on Discovery, TLC, Animal Planet, PBS, etc. I have a big fascination with cats of all sizes. And I still think you're wrong.

Bwana
04-06-2005, 09:41 PM
Yea but also remember, Bears are cute & cuddly:shake:

I also need to tell him to be sure to walk up next to the nice fuzzy slow looking buffalo next time he goes to Yellowstone for a photo op with the kiddies. :)

Lzen
04-06-2005, 09:42 PM
A couple other points.

Someone mentioned the fact that a mountain lion doesn't have the kind of thought process of deciding that we are not meaty enough. I mean, give me a break. Do you truly believe in the argument that humans aren't "meaty" enough for a mountain lion or are you just arguing for the sake of arguing? Shall we change your username to sojcroftme? :rolleyes:

If they don't stalk for meat then tell us, why do they stalk a child in a group that also had adults? I'll tell you. It's because it's the easiest prey. A mountain lion that is hungry isn't thinking about which 5 star restaurant he wants to eat in. He's just concerned with the quickest and easiest way of filling his stomach.

Chiefnj
04-06-2005, 10:29 PM
Recent confirmed cougar attacks in North America:

http://users.frii.com/mytymyk/lions/attacks3.htm

Mr. Christopher
04-06-2005, 10:36 PM
I've got some pals who work for DNR, and they say that the Majority of the reports are false. There have been confirmed sightings and kills. the pic I posted was confirmed, and there was one hit by a car, I'm thinking in Carol County.

2 guys I trust very much, who know wildlife say they watched one cross a hay field at a leisurely pace last fall, about a mile from my folks'....If they said it was a Mtn Lion...it was a mtn Lion.

I've got a pic of one A guy I know killed in Wayne County.
In Carroll County? I hadn't heard that.

I had heard that there was one killed around Harlan south of Crawford County. There have also been unconfirmed sightings around my home area of Sac County.

Iowanian
04-06-2005, 10:38 PM
Maybe it was Harlan...But I know there were several claims of sitings in Carol county...around Lake view and Auburn....along the river bottom

Mr. Christopher
04-06-2005, 10:44 PM
Maybe it was Harlan...But I know there were several claims of sitings in Carol county...around Lake view and Auburn....along the river bottom
My hometown is Lake View. I know some people around the area have seen signs of mountain lions in the area. One farmer I know thought he saw one cross the road right in front of him, just south of Lake View.

When I was home for Easter, my dog barked like crazy all night long, and we kept hearing noises like a low screaming sound...and we thought that maybe it was mountain lions or bobcats.