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Vegas_Dave
04-07-2005, 11:58 AM
So my family owns a 3 chain musical instrument store here in Las Vegas... as well as shipping over the net (www.kesslermusic.com (http://www.kesslermusic.com)). Well, locally, we have had a hell of a time hiring decent employees to work our front counters.

I am personally not part of the hiring process right now as I mainly handle all of our internet customers and am the professional sales specialist (for pros coming in, they only deal with me). But I am tired of having to deal with the retards that my "General Manager" ends up hiring.

I do not pay simply minimum wage either. We usually start HS kids around $8 hr. My main counter people, once properly trained and can demonstrate competency, move to $10-12/hr.

Does anyone have any recommendations on tests or hiring practices that can improve the quality of employee hire???

Coach
04-07-2005, 12:00 PM
Yeah, do background checks is the first important thing IMHO before going any further.

Phobia
04-07-2005, 12:02 PM
I've experienced the same problems. Unfortunately, the quality employees are being retained by other companies. It's hard to find one looking for work. You have to pay for them. $20-24k per year isn't gonna retain your quality employees. Not in 2005.

Braincase
04-07-2005, 12:03 PM
You might try advertising in the music department at UNLV. They probably have more knowledgeable students.

Also - is Ed Roman as big as asshole in real life as he seems to be based on his website?

THX,

BC

Kyle401
04-07-2005, 12:03 PM
Don't hire someone from CP to work a computer job. They will never reach their full potential.

Braincase
04-07-2005, 12:05 PM
Don't hire someone from CP to work a computer job. They will never reach their full potential.

We tried to warn you about ENDelt.

Vegas_Dave
04-07-2005, 12:10 PM
Yeah, do background checks is the first important thing IMHO before going any further.

Not as much of an issue when we are dealing with 16-19 year olds... however we do of course call references as well as previous employers (if there are any)...

I am mainly talking about sheer stupidity in these employees.

Example. I have a girl who works for us that while she tries hard, she cannot retain or understand anything you try to teach her.

I gave to my employees recently a "sales guide" manual. 3 weeks later, we performed a test. Since this is a new thing for us, I made the test simple. Now, also keep in mind that I personally have taught her everything that was in this manual because as I would complete a new section, I would give that section to her and go over it with her. So she had the information as well as a personal tuitor weeks before anyone else.

She scored a 5 out of 12.... where even the newest girl, who has worked for us for a month, and has not had any chance yet to be trained on this information got a 7 out of 12. The average score from my employees was a 9.5 out of 12.

Vegas_Dave
04-07-2005, 12:12 PM
I've experienced the same problems. Unfortunately, the quality employees are being retained by other companies. It's hard to find one looking for work. You have to pay for them. $20-24k per year isn't gonna retain your quality employees. Not in 2005.

I'm again, talking about employees from 16-19 years old.

The ones who work out really well now make very good money.

Coach
04-07-2005, 12:14 PM
Not as much of an issue when we are dealing with 16-19 year olds... however we do of course call references as well as previous employers (if there are any)...

I am mainly talking about sheer stupidity in these employees.

Example. I have a girl who works for us that while she tries hard, she cannot retain or understand anything you try to teach her.

I gave to my employees recently a "sales guide" manual. 3 weeks later, we performed a test. Since this is a new thing for us, I made the test simple. Now, also keep in mind that I personally have taught her everything that was in this manual because as I would complete a new section, I would give that section to her and go over it with her. So she had the information as well as a personal tuitor weeks before anyone else.

She scored a 5 out of 12.... where even the newest girl, who has worked for us for a month, and has not had any chance yet to be trained on this information got a 7 out of 12. The average score from my employees was a 9.5 out of 12.

That's one way of doing it. Of course though, there is the history of juveniles who commit such crimes that you would have to keep an eye out. Thus the background check could come in play and vice versa.

The test is a good thing as well to test their intellegence and vice versa.

DeepSouth
04-07-2005, 12:15 PM
Just hire the one with the shortest skirt and no bra. You'll probably get more return business too.

Vegas_Dave
04-07-2005, 12:17 PM
You might try advertising in the music department at UNLV. They probably have more knowledgeable students.

Also - is Ed Roman as big as asshole in real life as he seems to be based on his website?

THX,

BC

When I hire college music students, they tend to think that they already know everything there is to know... which is a shame because it is 99% of the time dead wrong. Plus, they have way too many commitments to fufil at UNLV to make them a reliable employee as far as scheduling goes.

I personally have never met Ed since I dont mess with guitars beyond student levels but I have heard plenty of stories. Most of those indicate that he is an ass.

Kyle401
04-07-2005, 12:18 PM
Just hire the one with the shortest skirt and no bra. You'll probably get more return business too.
Yep, hiring minors with short skirts and no bras will do wonders help to shorten your workday. Especially if you tie pay to "performance."

Vegas_Dave
04-07-2005, 12:20 PM
Just hire the one with the shortest skirt and no bra. You'll probably get more return business too.

Surpisingly, my wife, and my mother dont like it when my father and I hire based on that. :)

However, I can say that it does work wonders for the return customer aspect. I used to have this front counter girl with jsut about the most awesome rack on the planet. We constantly had guys returning as repeat customers that since she has left, they dont come in as often... she also had this like innocent, I am a nice girl look to her... whether she was or not... no comment.

Rain Man
04-07-2005, 12:36 PM
I'm sure you've already thought of this, but have you called the band teachers at local high schools and asked them to put up a job posting for you? When I was in high school, there were a lot of very bright kids in band who would've loved a job at a music store.

Second option: keep an eye out for young customers who appear to be knowledgeable and bright when they come in to the store. Let them know that you might be hiring at some point if they're ever interested. (Don't tell them you've got an opening now.) The ones that come back and pester you are good candidates.

As another thought independent of the first two, give them a test before you hire them. It'll increase your costs and time to hire people, but it'll sort out the wheat from the chaff. It really appears to be working for me in my company to do this.

StcChief
04-07-2005, 12:37 PM
16-19 yr old. How's their school aptitude? Grades,

Interested in music/instraments, do they play?

College music majors.

Drug test.

Pay alittle more once up to speed and show some self starter.

Part timers, fulltimers?

FT good > 20K year. benefits.

dtebbe
04-07-2005, 12:39 PM
I have found working with a temp-perm agency and paying the fee is the way to go. They inverview, test, and screen the people, send them in, if you don't like them you send them home and the agency sends someone else until you find someone you like. It looks expensive at first, but when you consider you don't have to deal with the payroll headaches until you find someone you like, plus all the time and money saved advertising the position and interviewing, it works out to be a good deal.

DT

Rain Man
04-07-2005, 12:42 PM
Surpisingly, my wife, and my mother dont like it when my father and I hire based on that. :)

However, I can say that it does work wonders for the return customer aspect. I used to have this front counter girl with jsut about the most awesome rack on the planet. We constantly had guys returning as repeat customers that since she has left, they dont come in as often... she also had this like innocent, I am a nice girl look to her... whether she was or not... no comment.

How many instruments do your wife and mother buy? :)

Phobia
04-07-2005, 12:53 PM
How many instruments do your wife and mother buy? :)

Heh heh. That's a great point until you consider his wife plays most important piccalo in the store.

Phobia
04-07-2005, 12:54 PM
I'm again, talking about employees from 16-19 years old.

The ones who work out really well now make very good money.

Oh - well I guess I didn't catch the 16-19 range. You should add the perk of buying beer for them.

DeepSouth
04-07-2005, 01:09 PM
Heh heh. That's a great point until you consider his wife plays most important piccalo in the store.
You never know about that. Remember the old joke:

What's the difference between an new job and a new wife?

Rain Man
04-07-2005, 01:28 PM
You never know about that. Remember the old joke:

What's the difference between an new job and a new wife?


WHAT? WHAT? I DON'T KNOW!

DeepSouth
04-07-2005, 01:42 PM
WHAT? WHAT? I DON'T KNOW!
After three months, the new job still sucks.............

Amnorix
04-07-2005, 02:32 PM
Surpisingly, my wife, and my mother dont like it when my father and I hire based on that. :)

However, I can say that it does work wonders for the return customer aspect. I used to have this front counter girl with jsut about the most awesome rack on the planet. We constantly had guys returning as repeat customers that since she has left, they dont come in as often... she also had this like innocent, I am a nice girl look to her... whether she was or not... no comment.

This thread is now, officially, worthless without pictures. Please provide.

Dartgod
04-07-2005, 03:00 PM
I'd ask Hoover for advice. He always seems to do well in this area.

jspchief
04-07-2005, 03:09 PM
One thing that I use as a general guideline when hiring younger workers, is to look for kids that were active in HS extra curricular activities. Especially kids that played on a team. They tend to understand how to take orders and work towards a goal, they are less likely to be simple clock-punchers.

I also believe that employees can only go as far as their superiors equip them to. Some times you have to spend time on them, and learn the difference between showing them what to do, and teaching them what to do.

Bootlegged
04-07-2005, 03:23 PM
There are no good employees. Damn kids.

Beatlemanu
04-07-2005, 03:37 PM
If your in Vegas, maybe you can comb the strip to see if there are any people handing out flyers that might want a new line of work...

Edubs
04-07-2005, 04:13 PM
I have a friend who owns a company that helps hire employees. Don't know if he would be able to help you or not. I don't know if he deals with just management and up. I know they do all sorts of background checks and personality tests to see if they are a fit for the job.

http://www.hirematch.com

Marcellus
04-07-2005, 05:10 PM
I bet finding 16-19 year old help that is interested in selling band and orchestra equipment is tuff. Most kids that age interested in that type of music already work at Radio Shack and I am sure their benefit package is better than yours. :rolleyes:

Demonpenz
04-07-2005, 05:16 PM
look at gochiefs. Then hire the exact opposite

BIG_DADDY
04-07-2005, 05:18 PM
I'd ask Hoover for advice. He always seems to do well in this area.

Right, he's always firing everyone.

BIG_DADDY
04-07-2005, 05:18 PM
I would look for a new GM

CosmicPal
04-07-2005, 05:22 PM
I bet you would sell a lot of trombones if you just hired a couple of hot, slutty gals with boobs big enough to provide shade for small children and have them wear skin tight cut-off T-shirts and some tight shorts that accentuate their butts.

They really don't need to say anything other than "cash, check, or credit card?"

bkkcoh
04-07-2005, 05:28 PM
Have you tried to get college students who are music majors? They may be interested.

bkkcoh
04-07-2005, 05:29 PM
Heh heh. That's a great point until you consider his wife plays most important piccalo in the store.



I thought that was one of the shortest instruments in the store????

:hmmm: :toast:

bkkcoh
04-07-2005, 05:34 PM
Don't hire someone from CP to work a computer job. They will never reach their full potential.


But thier post's per day #'s will improve....... :toast:

Calcountry
04-07-2005, 05:47 PM
Not as much of an issue when we are dealing with 16-19 year olds... however we do of course call references as well as previous employers (if there are any)...

I am mainly talking about sheer stupidity in these employees.

Example. I have a girl who works for us that while she tries hard, she cannot retain or understand anything you try to teach her.

I gave to my employees recently a "sales guide" manual. 3 weeks later, we performed a test. Since this is a new thing for us, I made the test simple. Now, also keep in mind that I personally have taught her everything that was in this manual because as I would complete a new section, I would give that section to her and go over it with her. So she had the information as well as a personal tuitor weeks before anyone else.

She scored a 5 out of 12.... where even the newest girl, who has worked for us for a month, and has not had any chance yet to be trained on this information got a 7 out of 12. The average score from my employees was a 9.5 out of 12.Dude, fire her immediately.

Tell her, she is much more qualified for McDonalds.

KCChiefsMan
04-07-2005, 05:58 PM
during the interview process, it's good to ask open-ended questions relevant to the job or situational questions and see how they respond. Let them take their time answering and see how they answer the question. If they sound like an idiot or dont have a clue what to do in certain situations then that should tell at least a little about their personality. It's hard to tell what their work ethic is going to be like, like you said hiring students usually gives you commitment issues. Once you have a good employee you need to treat them well (which you say you do) to maintain them.

mcan
04-07-2005, 07:20 PM
Seriously, I love music stores (as long as they aren't HUGE chains). If you really take your time and try to get the best instrument into the hands of the customers it's very fulfilling. If I were in the area, I'd apply. I'm a guitar teacher and worked selling guitar/bass/drums at a music store in Olathe Kansas. What I learned was that there are two ways to get cash in the register:

1. Be the best damned salesperson in the area.
2. Love your job and care about the customer.

Either way, you'll get money in the register, but if you really care, you'll get less complaints, and people returning their stuff because of what I like to call "buyer's remorse."


So, your answer is simple. You have to find people who are passionate about the industry. That means hiring musicians, even if it means that you have to work with their schedules a little bit, or be a little more understanding about college students being involved. You really can't have it both ways. If you want people who don't have anything else to do (so they can always work) then they are currently losers, and after you hire them they will be losers with an income... A whole lot better to find people who are busy and passionate people, but who take an active role, and are responsible when they CAN be there...