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View Full Version : How many of you are organ donars?


BIG_DADDY
04-07-2005, 09:14 PM
Wow, I was just watching the Discovery channel when they announced that only 2% of Americans are organ donars. I am signed up to be an organ donar myself and was wondering why so many other people are not. Am I missing something? They keep talking about the millions that die waiting for a donars every year and it blows me away that there are all these people that make themselves out to be so compassionate. I thought it might be a good idea to run a poll here as well just to see the percentage here at the planet.

Saulbadguy
04-07-2005, 09:16 PM
Your body must be complete upon trancension.

Iowanian
04-07-2005, 09:17 PM
I am.....with stipulation that there is 1 single organ, that is not available for transplant. Sorry Ladies.

KCWolfman
04-07-2005, 09:18 PM
Organ donor and on the marrow transplant list as well.

I also donate blood on a regular 8 week basis and am now well over 10 gallons.

The most simple gift you can ever donate and it doesn't cost you a dime.

Count Zarth
04-07-2005, 09:18 PM
Speak for yourself, big daddy. I plan to live forever.

KCWolfman
04-07-2005, 09:20 PM
I plan to live forever.

You have to achieve the verb before you can ever consider the adverb.

BIG_DADDY
04-07-2005, 09:21 PM
I am.....with stipulation that there is 1 single organ, that is not available for transplant. Sorry Ladies.

Yea I feel sorry for the fella that gets mine, he's going to be hella disappointed when he wakes up.

Simplex3
04-07-2005, 09:21 PM
Your body must be complete upon trancension.
I don't buy it. God wants you to let your organs rot so that people who need a little help die for no good reason, but he demanded that that feeding tube be put back in?

When I'm done farm this baby for all it's worth. I would like to be able to mark my organs as "Not for people who f**ked up their own through stupidity like drinking and smoking".

|Zach|
04-07-2005, 09:21 PM
You have to achieve the verb before you can ever consider the adverb.
ROFL

KCWolfman
04-07-2005, 09:22 PM
I don't buy it. God wants you to let your organs rot so that people who need a little help die for no good reason, but he demanded that that feeding tube be put back in?

When I'm done farm this baby for all it's worth. I would like to be able to mark my organs as "Not for people who f**ked up their own through stupidity like drinking and smoking".
You have never drank or smoked?

BIG_DADDY
04-07-2005, 09:22 PM
Organ donor and on the marrow transplant list as well.

I also donate blood on a regular 8 week basis and am now well over 10 gallons.

The most simple gift you can ever donate and it doesn't cost you a dime.

I know you're a good man, too bad you're a wacko. I guess god had to make up for it somewhere else.

KCWolfman
04-07-2005, 09:24 PM
I know you're a good man, too bad you're a wacko. I guess god had to make up for it somewhere else.

We can't all be me-first extremists.

BIG_DADDY
04-07-2005, 09:25 PM
I don't buy it. God wants you to let your organs rot so that people who need a little help die for no good reason, but he demanded that that feeding tube be put back in?

When I'm done farm this baby for all it's worth. I would like to be able to mark my organs as "Not for people who f**ked up their own through stupidity like drinking and smoking".

That's a great idea. For me I would like one condition. Ask them if they support gun legislation and if they do their ****ed.

I wonder if I could actually make that a condition. :hmmm:

Simplex3
04-07-2005, 09:26 PM
You have never drank or smoked?
Never smoked, I drink about twice a year. I'm talking about lifetime smokers and alcoholics, though. Some 60 year old jackass that drank like a fish better not get my liver while some 14 year old kid lies there dying is all I'm saying.

BIG_DADDY
04-07-2005, 09:27 PM
You have never drank or smoked?

OK Mr. Cast The First Stone who would deny people and their family the ability to protect themself for making a mistake in life.

BIG_DADDY
04-07-2005, 09:28 PM
Never smoked, I drink about twice a year. I'm talking about lifetime smokers and alcoholics, though. Some 60 year old jackass that drank like a fish better not get my liver while some 14 year old kid lies there dying is all I'm saying.

Twice a year, nice. We need to get together an knock a few back sometime soon. :fire:

Frazod
04-07-2005, 09:28 PM
After 20 years of smoking, I doubt if anyone want my lungs, but whatever else they want is fine by me - I'LL BE F#CKING DEAD, so I won't miss it.

Harvest what you want, fry the rest and scatter the ashes over Sylvan Lake. Works for me.

|Zach|
04-07-2005, 09:30 PM
After 20 years of smoking, I doubt if anyone want my lungs, but whatever else they want is fine by me - I'LL BE F#CKING DEAD, so I won't miss it.

Harvest what you want, fry the rest and scatter the ashes over Sylvan Lake. Works for me.
Sure you don't want your ashes scattered in the endzone of Invesco?

I thought thats how you always wanted it. :)

KCWolfman
04-07-2005, 09:31 PM
Never smoked, I drink about twice a year. I'm talking about lifetime smokers and alcoholics, though. Some 60 year old jackass that drank like a fish better not get my liver while some 14 year old kid lies there dying is all I'm saying.

What is the exact number of drinks or cigarettes before you are considered a lifetimer? What about the 60 year old guy that smoked for 30 years and quit when he turned 50? What about the 25 year old that got lung cancer from smoking for 3 years?

BIG_DADDY
04-07-2005, 09:31 PM
Where are all the compassionate ****ing liberals that care about humanity?

BIG DADDY

Expecting them any moment lying about their status.

Frazod
04-07-2005, 09:32 PM
Sure you don't want your ashes scattered in the endzone of Invesco?

I thought thats how you always wanted it. :)

They can harvest my last load and dump it on Elway's house. :#

KCWolfman
04-07-2005, 09:33 PM
OK Mr. Cast The First Stone who would deny people and their family the ability to protect themself for making a mistake in life.

I don't know what that is supposed to mean , sorry.

|Zach|
04-07-2005, 09:33 PM
They can harvest my last load and dump it on Elway's house. :#
Is there a union for that kind of job?

kc rush
04-07-2005, 09:33 PM
I'm signed up. I'll be dead, so I won't need those parts. If it helps someone else, cool.

Chiefnj
04-07-2005, 09:37 PM
I'm surprised it's only 2%. I've got the "yes" box checked off on the back of my driver's license.

I think People magazine had an interesting article about people who received organ transplants and then ended up liking things that the donee had liked in his/her life (prior to finding out who the donee was and what their likes/dislikes were). Kind of interesting.

Frazod
04-07-2005, 09:38 PM
Is there a union for that kind of job?

I wouldn't want to join it. :spock:

ROFL

BIG_DADDY
04-07-2005, 09:39 PM
I'm surprised it's only 2%. I've got the "yes" box checked off on the back of my driver's license.

I think People magazine had an interesting article about people who received organ transplants and then ended up liking things that the donee had liked in his/her life (prior to finding out who the donee was and what their likes/dislikes were). Kind of interesting.

Yea I saw that too, pretty wild.

|Zach|
04-07-2005, 09:40 PM
I wouldn't want to join it. :spock:

ROFL
Yup, I need to find a job these days because the moolah from my gig last summer is running dry but...

I couldn't imagine.

KCWolfman
04-07-2005, 09:42 PM
I'm surprised it's only 2%. I've got the "yes" box checked off on the back of my driver's license.

I think People magazine had an interesting article about people who received organ transplants and then ended up liking things that the donee had liked in his/her life (prior to finding out who the donee was and what their likes/dislikes were). Kind of interesting.

Those are always interesting.

I remember why I signed up, we got to see one of the first artificial heart transplant about 12 hours after it transpired in Humana Hospital in Louisville, Ky. As part of a class project, we had to write a report on the future possibility of other artificial organs. I remember the guy's last name was Schroeder and the heart was the Jarvik-7. I had never seen a rib-spreader used before and I was hooked as soon as I saw it implemented.

I turned 18 that year and immediately became a permanent blood donor, organ donor, and marrow list donater.

Phobia
04-07-2005, 09:45 PM
There was a donor today on Noland Road. Unfortunately, he donated most of his organs to the pavement.

badgirl
04-07-2005, 09:46 PM
I'm afraid if they see I'm an organ donor the Drs. won't be so quick to save my life, they may see dollar signs too fast. :shake:

Thats the only reason I haven't donated.

KCWolfman
04-07-2005, 09:49 PM
I'm afraid if they see I'm an organ donor the Drs. won't be so quick to save my life, they may see dollar signs too fast. :shake:

Thats the only reason I haven't donated.

The doctors who supposedly would kill you would not be the same docs who transplanted and made money from your surgery.

In fact, the docs who see you initially would make a great deal more profit by saving your life than killing you off.

|Zach|
04-07-2005, 09:49 PM
I'm afraid if they see I'm an organ donor the Drs. won't be so quick to save my life, they may see dollar signs too fast. :shake:

Thats the only reason I haven't donated.

Organ Donor Myth and Facts from OrganDonor.gov
http://www.organdonor.gov/myths_and_facts.htm
Myth: Doctors will not try to save my life if they know I want to be a donor.

Fact: The medical staff trying to save lives is completely separate from the transplant team. Donation takes place and transplant surgeons are called in only after all efforts to save a life have been exhausted and death is imminent or has been declared

Myth: Organs are sold, with enormous profits going to the medical community.

Fact: Federal law prohibits buying and selling organs in the U.S. Violators are punishable by prison sentences and fines.


:thumb:

Phobia
04-07-2005, 09:50 PM
I'm afraid if they see I'm an organ donor the Drs. won't be so quick to save my life, they may see dollar signs too fast. :shake:

Thats the only reason I haven't donated.

Your organs are ready to be harvested at any moment, clearly you're brain dead.

badgirl
04-07-2005, 09:51 PM
Your organs are ready to be harvested at any moment, clearly you're brain dead.
Oh so funny, lets give him a hand everyone :clap:

|Zach|
04-07-2005, 09:51 PM
Your organs are ready to be harvested at any moment, clearly you're brain dead.
heh

Organ Donor Myth and Facts from OrganDonor.gov cont...

http://www.organdonor.gov/myths_and_facts.htm

Myth: People can recover from brain death.

Fact: People can recover from comas, but not brain death. Coma and brain death are not the same. Brain death is final.

BIG_DADDY
04-07-2005, 09:52 PM
I turned 18 that year and immediately became a permanent blood donor, organ donor, and marrow list donater.

I know zero about marrow donation.

Chiefnj
04-07-2005, 09:54 PM
I know zero about marrow donation.

I think it hurts like a bitch.

|Zach|
04-07-2005, 09:55 PM
I think it hurts like a bitch.
ROFL

Organ Donor Myth and Facts from OrganDonor.gov cont...

http://www.organdonor.gov/myths_and_facts.htm

Myth: Marrow donation is painful.

Fact: Marrow donors do not feel pain when the marrow is removed because anesthesia is used. Soreness and/or stiffness may be felt for a week or so post-donation.

Chiefnj
04-07-2005, 09:55 PM
I wonder what the public reaction would be of a law that presumes everyone wants to donate their organs (ages 18 and over), and you would have to check off "no" not too.

|Zach|
04-07-2005, 09:57 PM
Seems like there is a lot of misinofrmation on this subject as a whole. Maybe that is a reason for some of the numbers BD has listed. I am nto saying this because I knew everything but out of curiosity checked out that website and just on this thread 3 miscpnceptions that they go out of their way to clear up were made.

Phobia
04-07-2005, 09:57 PM
stiffness may be felt for a week or so post-donation

I thought you were supposed to seek immediate medical attention after 4 hours....

Chiefnj
04-07-2005, 09:57 PM
ROFL

Organ Donor Myth and Facts from OrganDonor.gov cont...

http://www.organdonor.gov/myths_and_facts.htm

When a doctor tells you that you are going to be sore a "week or so" after the procedure, it means it hurts like a bitch.

BIG_DADDY
04-07-2005, 10:02 PM
ROFL

Organ Donor Myth and Facts from OrganDonor.gov cont...

http://www.organdonor.gov/myths_and_facts.htm

What are the side effects? If I'm dead help who you can. 7 people had their life saved by the donar on this show. I have also donated blood from time to time. I think it's funny when they draw my blood and it's black and their eyes get all bugged out.

I like helping but I know there are those that take it a step further. I am not personally willing to become worthless and weak in order to help somebody else. Bone marrow donation doesn't sound healthy to me.

Cntrygal
04-07-2005, 10:05 PM
I'm signed up as a donor.

|Zach|
04-07-2005, 10:06 PM
Not sure, hopefully Russ will chime in from his experience...


http://www.marrow.org/DONOR/abcs_of_donation.html

Does donating hurt? What are the side effects?

Marrow donors can expect to feel some soreness in their lower back for a few days or longer. Donors also have reported feeling tired and having some difficulty walking. Most donors are back to their usual routine in a few days. Some may take two to three weeks before they feel completely recovered.

PBSC donors report varying symptoms including headache, bone or muscle pain, nausea, insomnia and fatigue while receiving injections of filgrastim. These effects disappear shortly after collection. During the collection, donors may experience a tingling feeling or chills. These effects go away shortly after donating. When asked about their discomfort, most donors are quick to point out that it was worth it to help save a life, and they would be willing to do it again.

Count Zarth
04-07-2005, 10:18 PM
No DenverChief jokes?

BIG_DADDY
04-07-2005, 10:22 PM
I wonder what the public reaction would be of a law that presumes everyone wants to donate their organs (ages 18 and over), and you would have to check off "no" not too.

I don't know, sounds like a liberal idea to me where all the politicians that initiated the law for our kids naturally would have their boxes checked. IMO This is a very personal decision that people need to make an informed decision on rather than being railroaded into giving up their most person possesion. It's called integrity. I know it's rare these days but we need to have it again.

Simplex3
04-07-2005, 10:36 PM
What is the exact number of drinks or cigarettes before you are considered a lifetimer? What about the 60 year old guy that smoked for 30 years and quit when he turned 50? What about the 25 year old that got lung cancer from smoking for 3 years?
Screw them both *IF* there is a 12 year old that was caught in a fire and their lungs were seared. If there's nobody still on the list that wasn't operating in a risky behavior that got them in the end then hand them to these guys.

Count Zarth
04-07-2005, 10:39 PM
I didn't even know you could do lung transplants. That's crazy.

Rain Man
04-07-2005, 10:42 PM
I'm not currently an organ donor, but I will be if I die.

Count Zarth
04-07-2005, 10:42 PM
I'm not currently an organ donor, but I will be if I die.

I got dibs on your brain...I want to make all those cool polls.

Frazod
04-07-2005, 10:43 PM
I didn't even know you could do lung transplants. That's crazy.

Don't take up smoking. I may actually have a use for you in about 20 years. :evil:

Rain Man
04-07-2005, 10:55 PM
I got dibs on your brain...I want to make all those cool polls.

I've already stipulated in my will that my brain will go to Jessica Simpson.

Iowanian
04-07-2005, 10:57 PM
I'm getting my ass on a bone marrow donor list soon.

They had a drive when my friend's son was ill and I think 1000 people signed up in small town IA..I had meetings out of town.

I'd give in a minute.

Nzoner
04-07-2005, 10:57 PM
I think People magazine had an interesting article about people who received organ transplants and then ended up liking things that the donee had liked in his/her life (prior to finding out who the donee was and what their likes/dislikes were). Kind of interesting.

Hope I never need a transplant,I'd hate to wake up with a strong urge to try on the wife's panties.

Frazod
04-07-2005, 10:58 PM
I've already stipulated in my will that my brain will go to Jessica Simpson.

Oh great. Now Jessica Simpson will spam the BB with polls. :banghead:

:p

Nzoner
04-07-2005, 11:04 PM
On a serious note the wife's mother passed away Easter Sunday and she had donated her body to KU medical center for research.No services or anything.

go bowe
04-07-2005, 11:09 PM
On a serious note the wife's mother passed away Easter Sunday and she had donated her body to KU medical center for research.No services or anything.sorry to hear that, joe...

give our condolences to your wife...

we'll remember her and her mother in our prayers...

Frazod
04-07-2005, 11:10 PM
On a serious note the wife's mother passed away Easter Sunday and she had donated her body to KU medical center for research.No services or anything.

Sorry to hear about your MIL, Joe. :(

BIG_DADDY
04-07-2005, 11:21 PM
On a serious note the wife's mother passed away Easter Sunday and she had donated her body to KU medical center for research.No services or anything.

Sorry to hear it bro, best to you and your family.

chappy
04-08-2005, 02:38 AM
I donate my Organ to ladies from time to time. i heard it functions perfectly for several hours at a time

Miles
04-08-2005, 02:44 AM
I was 18 when i last renewed my license. I checked the keep my shit box at the time because i didnt really get exactly what they were asking for. Now id say f#ck it and check the box to be a donar.

ENDelt260
04-08-2005, 02:51 AM
I don't want to be murdered for my liver... and, really, the person who got it would just be pissed to find out it was worse than theirs anyway.

Ultra Peanut
04-08-2005, 03:08 AM
I'm afraid if they see I'm an organ donor the Drs. won't be so quick to save my life, they may see dollar signs too fast. :shake:

Thats the only reason I haven't donated.That is one of the dumbest ****ing things you've ever posted.

mikey23545
04-08-2005, 03:39 AM
Yes, I'm a donor.

Organs will be available on a first-come, first-serve basis...

HemiEd
04-08-2005, 05:00 AM
Yes, I will not need them when the opportunity presents itself. :)

Saggysack
04-08-2005, 05:36 AM
Yes.

Atleast according to my drivers license. I doubt there would be any usable healthy organs though. Ok, maybe my pancreas, maybe.

However, I don't see how being an organ donor makes you a compassionate person. I know plenty of poopstains that are organ donors, still doesn't make them compassionte in the least bit. It's still the me, me, me first type of mentality with them. For me, to say being a organ donor makes you a compassionate person is like telling someone all they have to is, just believe in God and they will be allowed in heaven.

It takes a hellava lot more to be considered a compassionate person than just being an organ donor. Nice try though.

Amnorix
04-08-2005, 06:04 AM
I am, and I also don't understand those who aren't. Seems to me that I'm not going to have a helluva lot of use for them when the time comes to pass.

I have debated this before with a couple people and heard ridiculous statements that the doctors won't try as hard to save your life if they see that you're a donor. :shake: :shake: The sheer stupidity of the argument boggles my mind.

Amnorix
04-08-2005, 06:06 AM
I've already stipulated in my will that my brain will go to Jessica Simpson.

Great. She'll be very confused when she can't stop fondling herself...

Amnorix
04-08-2005, 06:06 AM
I'm afraid if they see I'm an organ donor the Drs. won't be so quick to save my life, they may see dollar signs too fast. :shake:

Thats the only reason I haven't donated.
:doh!: :shake:
I posted my prior message about this stupid concept, THEN started reading through the thread.

BIG_DADDY
04-08-2005, 10:16 AM
Yes, I'm a donor.

Organs will be available on a first-come, first-serve basis...

I still wish I could screen the applicants.

BIG_DADDY
04-08-2005, 10:17 AM
Obviously the people here at the planet are much better than the average Joe's out there walking the street. Good to see so many of you as donars!! :thumb:

chiefs4me
04-08-2005, 11:21 AM
I'm not.....

Rain Man
04-08-2005, 12:04 PM
Oh great. Now Jessica Simpson will spam the BB with polls. :banghead:

:p


Chicken of the Sea. What is it?

a. Chicken
b. Fish
c. Sea
d. Beef

BIG_DADDY
04-08-2005, 12:12 PM
I'm not.....

If your interested you can sign up at www.donatelife.com

Apparently we don't have our shit together on this and only 10% of the people that sign up to be donars with their drivers license actually end up being one. This is the only way to insure your parts will actually be used. I heard that the average person that dies saves 7 other people's lives and there are around 50 others that will benefit.

I hope a few of you on here do this, it would be a really good thing.

penchief
04-08-2005, 12:14 PM
I am. I would have thought a lot more than 2% would be organ donors.

BIG_DADDY
04-08-2005, 12:32 PM
I am. I would have thought a lot more than 2% would be organ donors.

They should put people who have signed up to be donars at the top of the recipient list, that would get a few people signed up.

Dr. Facebook Fever
04-08-2005, 01:19 PM
Holy crap.....I was just logging on to post this same thread. No shit... I saw a story on our local news that said Illinois has the most organ donors of any state. Thought I'd see how many of us were donors.

I am btw...

Mark M
04-08-2005, 01:24 PM
Hell yes I am!

Of course, after some of the stuff I've done in my life, not sure how many parts are useful to anyone else. I'm sure my liver looks an awful lot like swiss cheese, kidneys are probably raisinesque, and my lungs ...

well, as long as the scrape the pot resin out of them first, they may be good to go.

MM
~~:D

BIG_DADDY
04-08-2005, 02:01 PM
Here is a kicker. We were signing up on the big registry here at the office this morning. The partner that acts the most riteous of all of us was being mysteriously quite while all this was going on. I asked him if he was going to do it and he said he didn't want his liver going to a stupid alchoholic (he himself has alchohol problems)and he didn't want his lungs going to some loser that smoked 2 packs of Pall MAll's a day. I laughed my ass off. Mr. Outraged about the Shiavo case and any other thing that ever comes up turns into this? He didn't like having his covers pulled either. He is all angry now. All these years of preaching from his soap box and acting all self riteous just came crashing down around him when he said that.

Mojo Rising
04-10-2005, 07:52 AM
I just signed up. BD - your eyes will be very valuable as they have never seen your team win a World Series!

J Diddy
04-10-2005, 08:20 AM
Chicken of the Sea. What is it?

a. Chicken
b. Fish
c. Sea
d. Beef


um isn't it a and b

Chickenfish.

KCWolfman
04-10-2005, 09:26 AM
Not sure, hopefully Russ will chime in from his experience...
Donations are not made after death, they are made during your life. Your marrow reproduces, it is where blood cells are generated. Generally given to leukemic patients. I have been on the list for decades and never been called. It was painful, not sore, but I had a compressed vertebrae at the time. The pain from the removal was separate from the vertebrae pain, but it really was nothing compared to the fracture.

Since I was already having the surgery, I asked that a sample be removed for the world list.

cadmonkey
04-10-2005, 09:50 AM
When I die I am taking all my parts with me. Of course I really don't think anyone would want what I have to offer. The damage I have put on my body the past 12 years would have killed lesser men.

OmahaChief
04-10-2005, 10:03 AM
I only became one when my Grandmother needed a liver transplant due to Hepatisis C. I had some stupid thought in my mind that I wanted to take with me what I came into this world with. Then I saw my Grandma and all the other paitients in the recovery ward and realized how selfish I was being. Proud to say I am an organ donor now and I encourage others to be as well. Good topic.

OmahaChief
04-10-2005, 10:06 AM
Here is a kicker. We were signing up on the big registry here at the office this morning. The partner that acts the most riteous of all of us was being mysteriously quite while all this was going on. I asked him if he was going to do it and he said he didn't want his liver going to a stupid alchoholic (he himself has alchohol problems)and he didn't want his lungs going to some loser that smoked 2 packs of Pall MAll's a day. I laughed my ass off. Mr. Outraged about the Shiavo case and any other thing that ever comes up turns into this? He didn't like having his covers pulled either. He is all angry now. All these years of preaching from his soap box and acting all self riteous just came crashing down around him when he said that.


Tell him that Alcholics are placed lower on the priority list then those that do not drink. Found that out during my Grandma's Transplant.

Cntrygal
04-10-2005, 10:18 AM
Tell him that Alcholics are placed lower on the priority list then those that do not drink. Found that out during my Grandma's Transplant.


That's good to know. I've heard that convicts (still in prison) are high on the list. Is that true?

OmahaChief
04-10-2005, 11:01 AM
That's good to know. I've heard that convicts (still in prison) are high on the list. Is that true?

Not sure on that one. I would hope not though. I would rather non incarerated folks have first shot.

Cntrygal
04-10-2005, 11:08 AM
Not sure on that one. I would hope not though. I would rather non incarerated folks have first shot.

I've heard it from several different people, and it was a topic for a radio talk show once. Since I was traveling - I forgot to look into it. I guess I'll try a google search now. :hmmm:

chiefs4me
04-10-2005, 11:46 AM
I don't know if it is true or not....but the list seems to mean nothing. If you are rich and can pay then you get the organ before someone who has been on the list for months or years. Is this true or not. Lots of folks that I talk to seem to think this is true.

OmahaChief
04-10-2005, 12:41 PM
I don't know if it is true or not....but the list seems to mean nothing. If you are rich and can pay then you get the organ before someone who has been on the list for months or years. Is this true or not. Lots of folks that I talk to seem to think this is true.

That is a hard one to really put a finger on. The late Chris LeDoux was on the list far longer then my Grandmother was. The big thing is the blood types need to match and some other things have to match up as well. LeDoux was in the same ward as my Grandpa. He was one helluva guy, down to earth and damn near begged me to stay in his room with him while his family was at lunch. I will never forget Chris, damn fine American.

Back to the topic, I have also heard that if you have enough money you can get closer to the top. I would not doubt that a lot of that might be try but I can only go off what I saw. Most of the folks in the ward appeared to be middle class judging from their families.

luv
04-10-2005, 01:01 PM
Screw them both *IF* there is a 12 year old that was caught in a fire and their lungs were seared. If there's nobody still on the list that wasn't operating in a risky behavior that got them in the end then hand them to these guys.
You think your lungs will fit inside a 12 year old girl?