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View Full Version : Surtain trade do you really believe???


Logical
04-13-2005, 02:35 PM
That it will not take this years second?

Bootlegged
04-13-2005, 02:42 PM
I don't see it happening at all. I believe another draft pick rich team will offer this years 2nd and 4th and 5th for Surtain. I'll be shocked if he's a Chief.

Chan93lx50
04-13-2005, 02:43 PM
I don't see it happening at all. I believe another draft pick rich team will offer this years 2nd and 4th and 5th for Surtain. I'll be shocked if he's a Chief.

Its sad to say, but I have to agree!

Logical
04-13-2005, 02:45 PM
I don't see it happening at all. I believe another draft pick rich team will offer this years 2nd and 4th and 5th for Surtain. I'll be shocked if he's a Chief.

I considered that option but knowing how most people feel about Carl I figured it would be a landslide choice. I would vote like you based on Carl.:mad:

BigChiefFan
04-13-2005, 02:48 PM
I think it WILL happen. The reason being is, most trades for picks happen on DRAFT DAY. I think our plan is to use the 15th overall pick on a draft choice and then when we get on the clock with our 2nd rounder we trade down and ship one of the newly acquired picks to the fins.

Cochise
04-13-2005, 02:53 PM
I think he's definitely worth a 2nd, but I doubt if we get him now.

If Carl was going to offer them a 2nd he would have done it by now, especially after reaching an agreement for an extension. It's obvious that he doesn't feel he's worth a second round pick; Saban said he wasn't dealing him for less. One of them will have to blink for it to happen.

While Carl is playing hardball, offering a 5th or something, another team will swoop in and offer the asking price, and we'll lose him. Sounds familiar.

Mr. Laz
04-13-2005, 02:55 PM
i would not be surprised in the least to see it be more than a 2nd round pick.


isn't the willie roaf trade the only one that we haven't gotten bent over with?

CHIEF4EVER
04-13-2005, 02:57 PM
Carl will likely end up blinking in the end but there is no sense in doing so now.

Woodrow Call
04-13-2005, 03:02 PM
Its not going to happen period. Saban is just as tough a SOB as Carl. If it did happen would take the 2nd.

Wile_E_Coyote
04-13-2005, 03:04 PM
Saban will say how is Warfield doing? Carl will say how about that #46? Saban will say deal

carlos3652
04-13-2005, 04:12 PM
Fins predction over at fin heaven:

http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showthread.php?p=1119884#post1119884

Tribal Warfare
04-13-2005, 06:00 PM
The Dolphin fans are trying to squeeze as much of this as possible 2 1st rounders my ass

DTLB58
04-13-2005, 06:09 PM
Just remember all the talk between Carl and Saban is no different than teams talking about who they are going or not going to draft. It's all B.S.! They are just trying to get the best deal possible for their respective teams.

I think Carl knows how important this is for this team, unless he is convinced Law will fully recover and we can get him, otherwise I say the trade will get done, but no sooner than draft day.

whoman69
04-13-2005, 06:51 PM
Let's see a list of all those teams lining up to get more than the 4th rounder that we offered.

Oh yeah, here it is:















Kind of looks like the number of prime QBs we've drafted throughout our history.

keg in kc
04-13-2005, 07:07 PM
Teicher said it best. Neither team's in a rush. It's in our best interest to wait and see if they'll take less than a second, and it's in their best interest to wait and see if we'll offer more than a fourth.

As for what I really believe??? well, I believe the same thing I've believed since early March. It'll get done. It'll happen at the end of next week or the day of the draft. It might take the second, it might not. And I don't care that we're waiting. It's what I'd do.

Logical
04-13-2005, 07:12 PM
Teicher said it best. Neither team's in a rush. It's in our best interest to wait and see if they'll take less than a second, and it's in their best interest to wait and see if we'll offer more than a fourth.

As for what I really believe??? well, I believe the same thing I've believed since early March. It'll get done. It'll happen at the end of next week or the day of the draft. It might take the second, it might not. And I don't care that we're waiting. It's what I'd do.

A man of his word Keg has not voted

tk13
04-13-2005, 07:19 PM
Chris Mortensen said last night on ESPN he thought it'd get done. Despite what's been said, Mort said the Chiefs and Surtain had the contract worked out, and he thinks it'll go up to draft day or right before, then somebody will blink and the deal will get done. I really have no idea though...

CosmicPal
04-13-2005, 07:23 PM
Teicher said it best. Neither team's in a rush. It's in our best interest to wait and see if they'll take less than a second, and it's in their best interest to wait and see if we'll offer more than a fourth.

As for what I really believe??? well, I believe the same thing I've believed since early March. It'll get done. It'll happen at the end of next week or the day of the draft. It might take the second, it might not. And I don't care that we're waiting. It's what I'd do.

Just as long as we don't get into a tug-of-war with Miami just before our turn in the 2nd round over this and have Minnesota jump up and grab the pick 'cause we took too long.

(That's a joke from the 2003 draft when KC moved in front of Minnesota to grab Sims while Minnesota waited too long to pick).

(But, there is some truth to it since neither side is willing to bite at this time, and it could, and likely will go right up to our time to pick in the 2nd round).

Deberg_1990
04-13-2005, 07:27 PM
The more it drags out the less I think it will happen. Of course Carl would get roasted by the fans and media if it fell through, but what does he care? He just signed a nice fat contract extension. I wish Lamar would have at least waited until this off-season was over before he signed CP. At least CP might have had a little more motivation to get things done that way.

milkman
04-13-2005, 07:29 PM
Teicher said it best. Neither team's in a rush. It's in our best interest to wait and see if they'll take less than a second, and it's in their best interest to wait and see if we'll offer more than a fourth.

As for what I really believe??? well, I believe the same thing I've believed since early March. It'll get done. It'll happen at the end of next week or the day of the draft. It might take the second, it might not. And I don't care that we're waiting. It's what I'd do.

Like Keg, I'm not going to predict how it gets done, as long as it does get done.
And I believe it will get done.

If this poll had asked which we would prefer to see, this year's 2nd rounder for Surtain, or this year's 4th and conditional pick next year, then I would have chosen this year's second.

I have never liked the idea of giving up future picks, and I really like it a lot less after getting bitten in the ass on the Wellbourne deal.

Skip Towne
04-13-2005, 07:30 PM
When are these other teams going to learn that Carl is a tough sob and they must do things his way?

milkman
04-13-2005, 07:45 PM
When are these other teams going to learn that Carl is a tough sob and they must do things his way?

About the time I gradiate from the 5th grade! :(

bigbucks24
04-13-2005, 08:42 PM
The Dolphin fans are trying to squeeze as much of this as possible 2 1st rounders my ass

I think you might have mis-read the poster. He said Brylan Edwards and Surtain for the two 1's and a second. Meaning that we would trade the #2 pick in the draft also. I don't think anyone would seriously think that Miami could get two 1's and a second for Pat.

Tribal Warfare
04-13-2005, 08:47 PM
I think you might have mis-read the poster. He said Brylan Edwards and Surtain for the two 1's and a second. Meaning that we would trade the #2 pick in the draft also. I don't think anyone would seriously think that Miami could get two 1's and a second for Pat.
knowing homers on other BB's I doubt it

Wile_E_Coyote
04-13-2005, 08:53 PM
http://www.miamidolphins.com/images/lockerroom/teamroster/portrait9778.jpg





"I can learn to hate orange"

SCTrojan
04-13-2005, 09:07 PM
I know you can't trade a compensatory pick, but what about trading the player drafted with that pick?

A possible draft-day scenario that I think could happen is that the Surtain trade would go through if a player the Dolphins really like is available when it's time for our third-round pick.

It's a compromise that allows both sides to save face.

Chiefnj
04-13-2005, 09:14 PM
There was a report somewhere this week that said that Surtain and the Chiefs were still 5 million apart on a deal. I'm not too sure it's just the draft picks holding up a deal. I wish it was, but I doubt it.

bigbucks24
04-13-2005, 09:30 PM
knowing homers on other BB's I doubt it

"Not the Cargers, you know, 2 first rounders, lots of cap space need for CB and WR, simply too many picks, some will not make the team, that many picks eat more cap room than Surtain, I can see their 2 firsts and their second for Braylon Edwards and Pat Surtain"

This is the quote form the other BB.

digi2fish
04-13-2005, 09:59 PM
I want it be done with this year's 2nd.
but who knows what King Carl will do ?

Wile_E_Coyote
04-13-2005, 10:05 PM
Miami's #2 = 2600 pts

SD entire draft

#12 =1200
#28 = 660
#61 = 292
#130= 42
#164= 26.8
#177= 21.6
#242= 1.2
-------------
total 2243.6

C-Mac
04-13-2005, 10:16 PM
i would not be surprised in the least to see it be more than a 2nd round pick.

isn't the willie roaf trade the only one that we haven't gotten bent over with?

Oh I dont know, the Joe Montana trade was fair and I would still trade a 1st for Trent Green.

patteeu
04-13-2005, 11:41 PM
(That's a joke from the 2003 draft when KC moved in front of Minnesota to grab Sims while Minnesota waited too long to pick).

Actually, what happened was that Kansas City moved in front of Minnesota by trading up from 8 to 6 with Dallas. But Jerry Jones took so long to finalize the deal that the clock ran out so Minnesota (at 7) had the opportunity to steal the pick. They sent their selection up through the proper channels and when the Chiefs realized what was going on, some quick thinking (or scared shitless) guy from the Chiefs' contingent hand carried the Chiefs' pick up to Tagliabue (or somewhere close) and beat Minnesota to the finish line.

This might have been what you meant by "KC moved in front of Minnesota" but it wasn't clear to me.

carlos3652
04-14-2005, 02:27 AM
This is Miami's current draft situation:
Overall Picks...
(2) (70) (104) (138) (216)

They look really bad especially because they will not be able to trade down to get more picks...

Saban will fry if Surtain stays a Dolphin with his Cap and no added draft... How is he espected to rebuild w/ tons of CB's and no new blood from the draft...

They will take a 3rd, 5th and 6th for Surtain so they can have options...

I think DJ falls to 15, we trade down in the second, pick up a low 2nd and a 3rd, give the 3rd to Miami and pick the BPA @ low 2nd and comp 3rd.

Man I would cream my pants if this scenario came true...

Pants
04-14-2005, 02:28 AM
This is Miami's current draft situation:
Overall Picks...
(2) (70) (104) (138) (216)

They look really bad especially because they will not be able to trade down to get more picks...

Saban will fry if Surtain stays a Dolphin with his Cap and no added draft... How is he espected to rebuild w/ tons of CB's and no new blood from the draft...

They will take a 3rd, 5th and 6th for Surtain so they can have options...

I think DJ falls to 15, we trade down in the second, pick up a low 2nd and a 3rd, give the 3rd to Miami and pick the BPA @ low 2nd and comp 3rd.

Man I would cream my pants if this scenario came true...

Rep to you for owning the dumbass Fin fans on their board.

carlos3652
04-14-2005, 02:36 AM
Rep to you for owning the dumbass Fin fans on their board.

Hahaha... their funny... there is some interesting stuff.... like them predicting that they will burn the Browncos in week 1...

http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showthread.php?t=74105

mcan
04-14-2005, 02:42 AM
trading for a player that needs a new contract anyway shouldn't cost an arm and a leg. The fact is, you're just securing rights, so you aren't trying to get equal value for the player. If that were the case, then no less than a first should be warrented. I would think a third rounder is PLENTY. Or a fourth and a sixth... We gave a third for Willie Roaf, who was an eight time probowler and lock for the Hall of Fame...

I suggest that we offer to trade whatever player Miami wants in the third round... We'll pick him and trade him, since we can't technically trade the comp pick. That's being more than fair.

CHIEF4EVER
04-14-2005, 06:02 AM
Hahaha... their funny... there is some interesting stuff.... like them predicting that they will burn the Browncos in week 1...

http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showthread.php?t=74105

That's not too far fetched. The Browncos are a mirage. :D

htismaqe
04-14-2005, 06:04 AM
I firmly believe it's going to take *A* 2nd-round pick to get him but not *OUR* 2nd-rounder.

That's why we should be looking to stockpile 2nd-round picks.

CHIEF4EVER
04-14-2005, 06:08 AM
I firmly believe it's going to take *A* 2nd-round pick to get him but not *OUR* 2nd-rounder.

That's why we should be looking to stockpile 2nd-round picks.

You are likely to be proven right. I still think he can be had for this years 4th and next years 3rd.

nmt1
04-14-2005, 06:20 AM
I think it'll go down just like the Green trade. The Rams were asking for a first from day one and we waited until just before the draft.
As much as it pains me, we'll probably trade the 2nd for him the night before the draft. I'd rather keep it and force Miami's hand. I don't think our season hinges on whether not we aquire one player, regardless of who he is.
I didn't vote because I think both scenarios are possible.

Brock
04-14-2005, 10:00 AM
Actually, what happened was that Kansas City moved in front of Minnesota by trading up from 8 to 6 with Dallas. But Jerry Jones took so long to finalize the deal that the clock ran out so Minnesota (at 7) had the opportunity to steal the pick. They sent their selection up through the proper channels and when the Chiefs realized what was going on, some quick thinking (or scared shitless) guy from the Chiefs' contingent hand carried the Chiefs' pick up to Tagliabue (or somewhere close) and beat Minnesota to the finish line.

This might have been what you meant by "KC moved in front of Minnesota" but it wasn't clear to me.

Actually, Minnesota didn't really look bad until the next year, when they passed on their pick and two other teams rushed up ahead of them. Very amateurish.

Logical
04-14-2005, 11:28 AM
...
I suggest that we offer to trade whatever player Miami wants in the third round... We'll pick him and trade him, since we can't technically trade the comp pick. That's being more than fair.

Now I must admit this is an interesting idea and possibly feasible. This is the kind of skirting of rules the Broncos are great at, we should definately attempt to make it happen.

Mr. Laz
04-14-2005, 11:40 AM
Oh I dont know, the Joe Montana trade was fair and I would still trade a 1st for Trent Green.
a 1st and 3rd for a broken down joe montana???

i don't think so

it was a great business decision, but a poor football one



i would still trade a 1st rounder for Green as well ... because we have hind sight and see that it works out.

But it was still too much ... you don't give the 12th pick of the draft for a backup, journey quarterback coming off of major knee surgery.

Mr. Laz
04-14-2005, 11:41 AM
I firmly believe it's going to take *A* 2nd-round pick to get him but not *OUR* 2nd-rounder.

That's why we should be looking to stockpile 2nd-round picks.

you just want marlin jackson :p