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View Full Version : A little Rumor Mill from DraftCountdown...


Coogs
04-14-2005, 09:33 AM
...some of this could help us out in a trade down scenario.


Here is the stuff...

April 14, 2005


There is growing speculation that the Miami Dolphins are more than a little eager to trade down from the #2 overall pick and may be willing to do it for less than you would expect. The most likely suitor at this point appears to be the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, who may have their sights set on Auburn RB Ronnie Brown, Cal QB Aaron Rodgers or Utah QB Alex Smith. On that note, don't look for either of the signal callers to freefall if either San Francisco or Cleveland pass on them as some have suggested, there are plenty of teams in the top ten interested in them. Look for there to be a lot of talk in the final week before the draft about Miami at #2 and Cleveland at #3 moving down and don't be surprised if both eventually do when all is said and done.



The hottest player in the draft may be Troy DE Demarcus Ware, who now looks like a legitimate Top 15-20 pick. In fact, there is talk that Dallas has really taken a liking to the pass rusher and may prefer him to Shawne Merriman. San Diego at #12 and Houston at #13 are also very interested in Ware and two teams, Atlanta and Philadelphia, are reportedly interested in moving up for a shot at him.



Perhaps one of the most controversial players in this draft is Florida St. OT Alex Barron and if you ask ten people about his draft forcast you may get ten different answers. He could go as high as #6 to Tennessee or fall as far as Houston at #13 or Carolina at #14. With the lack of elite left tackle prospects this year it is hard to imagine someone not gambling on his potential greatness earlier than expected.



Look for Arizona and Buffalo to ultimately consummate the deal to send OT L.J. Shelton to the Bills in exchange for RB Travis Henry but it may not happen until Draft Day. This is basically a game of chicken with both teams wanting to trade to happen but each angling for a little more since it doesn't hurt them to wait another week. Once this trade goes through watch for Arizona to focus on a cornerback with the #8 overall pick with Antrel Rolle reportedly being the guy they covet.

BigChiefFan
04-14-2005, 09:36 AM
Last night Drew Rosenhaus said the Cowboys are interested in Dan Cody. Probably just him talking up his client, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

Coogs
04-14-2005, 09:39 AM
In a trade with Atlanta, we might could get #27 and #59.

Send 59 to Maimi for Surtain.
Use 27 and 46 for best two defensive players on the board.

BigChiefFan
04-14-2005, 09:44 AM
In a trade with Atlanta, we might could get #27 and #59.

Send 59 to Maimi for Surtain.
Use 27 and 46 for best two defensive players on the board.
Coogs, I think we are better served staying put with the 15th overall pick and picking up a quality player. Then when we are on the clock in the 2nd round, trade down, and use one of the newly acquired picks in a trade down to send for Surtain.

Coogs
04-14-2005, 09:46 AM
Potential CB's in that area

Jackson
Miller
Webster
Washington

LB's in that area

Blackstock
Barnett
Thurman
Rudd
Crowder

DE's

Roth
Tuck

Coogs
04-14-2005, 09:47 AM
Coogs, I think we are better served staying put with the 15th overall pick and picking up a quality player. Then when we are on the clock in the 2nd round, trade down, and use one of the newly acquired picks in a trade down to send for Surtain.

Possibly.

TRR
04-14-2005, 09:47 AM
I believe Marlin Jackson has a very bright future in the NFL. Very good size and speed, and he loves to tackle.

BigChiefFan
04-14-2005, 09:48 AM
Potential CB's in that area

Jackson
Miller
Webster
Washington

LB's in that area

Blackstock
Barnett
Thurman
Rudd
Crowder

DE's

Roth
Tuck
Odell Thurman is staying at school.

Coogs
04-14-2005, 09:50 AM
Odell Thurman is staying at school.

Is that right? Someone needs to tell that to all the draft sites if so, because they all have him in their mock drafts.

tyton75
04-14-2005, 09:52 AM
IMO, we need TALENT on Defense... and we are going to get a much more talented guy at 15.. than at 27....

Its really hard to miss on a defensive player at 15. (not that it can't happen) but its much easier to miss on a defensive guy at 27

Coogs
04-14-2005, 09:56 AM
IMO, we need TALENT on Defense... and we are going to get a much more talented guy at 15.. than at 27....

Its really hard to miss on a defensive player at 15. (not that it can't happen) but its much easier to miss on a defensive guy at 27

I disagree that we may get much more talent at 15 than at 27. I don't think a Jackson or Webster is that much different than a Rogers. But that is JMO.

Coogs
04-14-2005, 10:01 AM
IMO, we need TALENT on Defense... and we are going to get a much more talented guy at 15.. than at 27....

Its really hard to miss on a defensive player at 15. (not that it can't happen) but its much easier to miss on a defensive guy at 27

And talent at 15 would have to include Thomas Davis from Georgia. Personally, I would love the pick, but I suspect most here would not. Three of the biggest impact players drafted the last few years on defense have been Ed Reed, Troy Polamalu, and Sean Taylor. All safties. A secondary of Surtain, Warfield, Knight, and Davis would shore up one of our weak areas big time.

ROYC75
04-14-2005, 10:01 AM
Coogs, I think we are better served staying put with the 15th overall pick and picking up a quality player. Then when we are on the clock in the 2nd round, trade down, and use one of the newly acquired picks in a trade down to send for Surtain.

A little history review here on Carl..........

How often does he get his # 1 pick signed and in camp on time to contribute ? Not often at all because he doesn't want to shell out the cash.

How often does our # 2 picks work out? Less than our # 1 picks.....

( Rodney Dangerfield voice ) We're doomed I tell ya..................doomed .
Best case, trade down, get extra picks, esp.with one of them a # 2 and send to Miami.

BigChiefFan
04-14-2005, 10:05 AM
A little history review here on Carl..........

How often does he get his # 1 pick signed and in camp on time to contribute ? Not often at all because he doesn't want to shell out the cash.

How often does our # 2 picks work out? Less than our # 1 picks.....

( Rodney Dangerfield voice ) We're doomed I tell ya..................doomed .
Best case, trade down, get extra picks, esp.with one of them a # 2 and send to Miami.
Still doesn't change, I think we need to stay put at 15 and use the 2nd rounder to trade down, to give the fins their pick. Why give up a HIGH second rounder, when we don't have to? We can still give them their precious 2nd rounder and pick up and additional pick to help us as well.

buddha
04-14-2005, 10:18 AM
The Chiefs should just stay put and see who is there at their pick. With guys like Ware getting hot all of a sudden, that bodes well for somebody we wanted more drifting down the draft board to our slot. I've never understood how a few individual workouts could significantly help a guy. You can look at his game tapes, see what level he plays at, and make a decent evaluation. Ware would be a very nice high second round pick, but he's not an elite level player IMHO. That's what a top 15 pick has to be.

Coogs
04-14-2005, 10:37 AM
The Chiefs should just stay put and see who is there at their pick.

I agree. But two teams seem willing to trade up. There may be more. if someone like St. Louie would want to move up from 19, we maybe could get one of their 3rds and package it with a 5th or so for Surtain. That would be more ideal IMO.

ct
04-14-2005, 10:45 AM
I agree. But two teams seem willing to trade up. There may be more. if someone like St. Louie would want to move up from 19, we maybe could get one of their 3rds and package it with a 5th or so for Surtain. That would be more ideal IMO.

Absolutely agree here!! IF Rogers is gone @15, move down a little in the 1st, p/up a 3rd, give that up for Surtain. By the time Draft Day arrives, Miami might be willing to accept only a 3rd for Surtain. but if Carlos Rogers is on the board when KC is on the clock for 15, it had better be one SWEET deal to move down.

Simplex3
04-14-2005, 11:17 AM
Its really hard to miss on a defensive player at 15. (not that it can't happen) but its much easier to miss on a defensive guy at 27
*cough*Ryan Simms*cough*

Brock
04-14-2005, 11:26 AM
*cough*Ryan Simms*cough*

Who's Ryan Simms?

eazyb81
04-14-2005, 11:42 AM
And talent at 15 would have to include Thomas Davis from Georgia. Personally, I would love the pick, but I suspect most here would not. Three of the biggest impact players drafted the last few years on defense have been Ed Reed, Troy Polamalu, and Sean Taylor. All safties. A secondary of Surtain, Warfield, Knight, and Davis would shore up one of our weak areas big time.

I am all for giving Thomas Davis a hard look, but I hope they look at him as an OLB possibility. I think he could be a great OLB and excel in sideline to sideline coverage, similarly to Derrick Brooks.

eazyb81
04-14-2005, 11:44 AM
The Chiefs should just stay put and see who is there at their pick. With guys like Ware getting hot all of a sudden, that bodes well for somebody we wanted more drifting down the draft board to our slot. I've never understood how a few individual workouts could significantly help a guy. You can look at his game tapes, see what level he plays at, and make a decent evaluation. Ware would be a very nice high second round pick, but he's not an elite level player IMHO. That's what a top 15 pick has to be.

I agree, good players drop a few spots every year, and this year will be no different. I wouldn't be surprised if a few "definite" top 10 picks (DJ, Rolle, Merriman, PacMan) dropped to us at 15.

ChiefsCountry
04-14-2005, 11:53 AM
I say trade UP and make sure we get a top defense player. Don't play the waiting game.

Coogs
04-14-2005, 11:54 AM
I am all for giving Thomas Davis a hard look, but I hope they look at him as an OLB possibility. I think he could be a great OLB and excel in sideline to sideline coverage, similarly to Derrick Brooks.

I'd be cool with that too. Either way, the guy is a football player. And he has already played both spots. He is a tackling machine and he can cover receivers too. Would make a great player at either spot IMO.

Coogs
04-14-2005, 11:57 AM
I say trade UP and make sure we get a top defense player. Don't play the waiting game.

All the gloom and doomers around here are predicting us to come out of the gates at 1-3 to 0-4 next year. If that is the case, then why in the heck would we want to give up next years draft picks for Surtain? Trade down, get the extra pick to use on Surtain, and keep our picks for next season.

Mike Grose
04-14-2005, 12:08 PM
The Chiefs should just stay put and see who is there at their pick. With guys like Ware getting hot all of a sudden, that bodes well for somebody we wanted more drifting down the draft board to our slot. I've never understood how a few individual workouts could significantly help a guy. You can look at his game tapes, see what level he plays at, and make a decent evaluation. Ware would be a very nice high second round pick, but he's not an elite level player IMHO. That's what a top 15 pick has to be.

It's not so simple with small school guys. Are they dominating everyone they see because of talent or because of lack of competition. Let's face it, beating up on a true freshman OT for Missouri isn't a resume padding accomplishment.

On the other hand, he had solid games against LSU and some other team I forget during regular season.

Then he dominated NFL prospects at the Senior Bowl. Then, from all reports, he had an eye-popping combine.

He'll be a first round pick, but I'd be surprised if he rises all the way to 15 or earlier.

Swanman
04-14-2005, 01:37 PM
Who's Ryan Simms?

Phil's illegitimate black lovechild.

whoman69
04-14-2005, 01:46 PM
It's hard to judge the veracity of rumors like this. At draft time everyone plays their cards close to their vest. I have no doubt the Dolphins want to move down to get more picks, but I really doubt they would advertise that there could be a bargain deal done. This is the same team still publically announcing they need a 2nd to trade Surtain. I'm sure that the deal can be done for a combination of picks that might equal a 2nd. It will be especially interesting to see what their price is for Surtain after they have made whatever deal they are going to make for the #2 overall pick.

Coogs
04-14-2005, 01:56 PM
It will be especially interesting to see what their price is for Surtain after they have made whatever deal they are going to make for the #2 overall pick.

I've wondered that same thing.

ChiefsCountry
04-14-2005, 02:06 PM
All the gloom and doomers around here are predicting us to come out of the gates at 1-3 to 0-4 next year. If that is the case, then why in the heck would we want to give up next years draft picks for Surtain? Trade down, get the extra pick to use on Surtain, and keep our picks for next season.

I seriousally doubt its going to take picks from next year to move up.

Mile High Mania
04-14-2005, 02:09 PM
I think KC should seriously go OT in R1... Roaf is no spring chicken, ya know.

Tribal Warfare
04-14-2005, 02:10 PM
still pushing the Derrick Johnson at #9 to #11 tradeup option :thumb:

Coogs
04-14-2005, 02:14 PM
I seriousally doubt its going to take picks from next year to move up.

If we move up, it will probably cost us our 2nd round pick this year. Therefore, it will probably cost us a pick from next years draft if we are to get Surtain.

Tribal Warfare
04-14-2005, 02:37 PM
If we move up, it will probably cost us our 2nd round pick this year. Therefore, it will probably cost us a pick from next years draft if we are to get Surtain.

Not exactly like many said were the only team that's in the Surtain hunt and this years 4th round pick and next years 2nd or 3rd should suffice

htismaqe
04-15-2005, 05:20 AM
I say trade UP and make sure we get a top defense player. Don't play the waiting game.

What a horrible waste of picks.

yoswif
04-15-2005, 05:37 AM
I say trade UP and make sure we get a top defense player. Don't play the waiting game.

That is the exact same logic that made Sims a Chief's #1 pick.

old_geezer
04-15-2005, 05:47 AM
What a horrible waste of picks.

I could say that about just about any Chief's draft since Peterson has been here.

htismaqe
04-15-2005, 06:50 AM
I could say that about just about any Chief's draft since Peterson has been here.

There's a difference between trying and failing and deliberately pissing away draft picks.

ExtremeChief
04-15-2005, 07:19 AM
The defense needs quality players everywhere... why trade up for just one??? There will be quality defensive players at 15 and all through the first round that would help this _efense. I would choose quantity over quality this year.

htismaqe
04-15-2005, 09:39 AM
The defense needs quality players everywhere... why trade up for just one??? There will be quality defensive players at 15 and all through the first round that would help this _efense. I would choose quantity over quality this year.

Exactly.

bricks
04-15-2005, 09:45 AM
The defense needs quality players everywhere... why trade up for just one??? There will be quality defensive players at 15 and all through the first round that would help this _efense. I would choose quantity over quality this year.

ok so wtf lets trade down, get some more draft picks. We're probably not going to get Rolle, Rodgers, and Jones anyway. There are not going to be there at 15 when we pick. To get DJ, I wish but, he's not going to fall to 15. So why not trade down, make the trade for Surtain, and snatch up some extra picks in the meantime. I agree we need as many defense players as possible. there's a lot of logic, truth to that.

CoMoChief
04-15-2005, 09:45 AM
IMO, we need TALENT on Defense... and we are going to get a much more talented guy at 15.. than at 27....

Its really hard to miss on a defensive player at 15. (not that it can't happen) but its much easier to miss on a defensive guy at 27

Shit we missed on a defensive player on the 6th overall pick a few years back IMO lol.

Mr. Laz
04-15-2005, 09:48 AM
What a horrible waste of picks.

only if they overpay to trade up AND pick the wrong player

htismaqe
04-15-2005, 11:59 AM
only if they overpay to trade up AND pick the wrong player

See, I disagree.

The top players in this draft are not THAT much better than the next tier of players in this draft.

For instance, we could draft Carlos Rogers or David Pollack at 15. Or we could trade down and draft Marlin Jackson or Matt Roth AND draft Darryl Blackstock or Kevin Burnett with the extra pick we get back.

buddha
04-15-2005, 12:10 PM
On the other hand, he had solid games against LSU and some other team I forget during regular season.

Then he dominated NFL prospects at the Senior Bowl. Then, from all reports, he had an eye-popping combine.



Mike, I agree with those points, but having solid games against LSU and in the Senior Bowl doesn't do it for me. There are lots of players who play well against good competition that aren't being considered "elite" players. Also, I put very little faith in all-star type games, as I'm sure you probably do as well.

My feeling on Ware is that he probably will go in the first round because somebody will fall in love with his potential. However, the sides of the road are littered with GMs who have been burned by that way of drafting.

whoman69
04-15-2005, 12:12 PM
It all depends on what we have to give up for Surtain should we get him

buddha
04-15-2005, 12:15 PM
See, I disagree.

The top players in this draft are not THAT much better than the next tier of players in this draft.

For instance, we could draft Carlos Rogers or David Pollack at 15. Or we could trade down and draft Marlin Jackson or Matt Roth AND draft Darryl Blackstock or Kevin Burnett with the extra pick we get back.

I agree with rufus on that point. I don't see can't miss guys at the top of this draft board. I love DJ, but is he that much better than the other OLBs near the top of the draft? Probably not. I wouldn't be willing to part with a 2nd to find out, that's for sure.

Now, if KC needed to move up 2-3 slots to ensure they got a DJ or someone like that, that wouldn't cost us as dearly.

BTW, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Marlin Jackson turned out to be one of the best at his position out of this draft.

PhogPhanTim
04-15-2005, 12:21 PM
Are you off your rocker Rufus? The best players in the draft are generally found at the top of the draft. That's what we need. We don't need to continue drafting mid round crap that never pans out.

On second thought why don't we just ship all our high picks off for as many seventh round picks as we can get? That would get us a bunch of players.

Tribal Warfare
04-15-2005, 12:24 PM
I still definitely would tradeup though if DJ is in range