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View Full Version : Derrick Johnson a whiffer? Maybe, according to Pastabelly


Mr. Flopnuts
04-14-2005, 12:02 PM
Stats don't lie, this guy is a stud. I haven't seen any tapes so I'll base my judgment off of his stats.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft05/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&page=lb_ratings


Johnson known to miss some playsBy Len Pasquarelli
ESPN.com
Archive



Derrick Johnson played both ILB and OLB during his career at Texas.
OLB Derrick Johnson (Texas)
Vital statistics: 6 foot 3, 242 pounds, 4.52 in the 40.
Numbers game: Was a Parade Magazine All-American selection in high school, where he reportedly recorded 30 tackles and four forced fumbles in one game. Three-year starter for the Longhorns, opening in 40 of 50 appearances, and finished his college career with 458 tackles, 65 tackles for loss, 10 sacks, 39 pressures, 11 forced fumbles, five fumble recoveries and nine interceptions, one of which was returned for a touchdown. Recorded 120 or more tackles in each season as a starter and had four interceptions each in 2002 and 2003. In 2004, won the Bronko Nagurski Trophy as the nation's top defensive player and the Butkus Award as the best linebacker. Was a consensus All-American and named to the all-Big 12 team.
Upside: Fluid athlete with great flexibility, loose hips and great speed. Can chase down plays all over the field. Good range, covers a lot of space with only a few steps. Knows how to pick up his feet to avoid getting caught up in the trash. Moves laterally with a lot of facility. Can go sideline to sideline. Instinctive and aware, a solid diagnostician. Fine closing speed. Very productive in every phase of the game. Definite team leader.
Downside: The critics feel he avoids too many plays. His supporters contend that you can't have more than 450 career tackles by not taking people on. But watch him on tape and you can see the detractors make a good point. He runs around way too many plays and, even with all those tackles, he whiffs far too much. Doesn't stack the way he should and will not stand up the lead-blocker. More of a drag-down tackler. Not an explosive blitzer.
The dish: We're not sold, and neither are a few scouts whose opinions we value, but we are in the minority. Could be the first defensive player off the board and almost certain to be among the top dozen prospects chosen.


Edit: On the same article there's more info for the rest of the LB top 12 prospects.

Ari Chi3fs
04-14-2005, 12:06 PM
mmmm pasta.

Simplex3
04-14-2005, 12:09 PM
IMO this is a lot like my "she probably has a huge, wooly bush that I couldn't get through with a brush hog" thing I tell myself when really hot chicks go by and I'm looking for a way to feel Ok about the fact that I won't be going after it.

Mr. Kotter
04-14-2005, 12:11 PM
His alleged shortcomings are coachable....too bad Gun won't get the chance to polish this kid. :(

bloomer88
04-14-2005, 12:13 PM
Good, Hopefully every team picking in front of us feels the same way about him. He's my dream pick. If we get him, I don't care what Carl does with the rest of our picks.

Mr. Laz
04-14-2005, 12:17 PM
:shrug:

what's the problem?

they list his positives and negatives then give their conclusion as "undecided"



laz
~doesn't see anything significant other than them being non-committal~

Mr. Kotter
04-14-2005, 12:19 PM
You guys gotta remember....Greg Robinson was his DC last year....he'd have probably had another 50 tackles and 5 or 6 sacks, had he not been working with that handicap...heh.

:p

CoMoChief
04-14-2005, 12:19 PM
30 tackles in one game??? is that even possible??

CoMoChief
04-14-2005, 12:20 PM
texas's defense was pretty good actually, its more of our talent that sucks more than robinson, but then again there was NO way that we could win with him.

Mr. Kotter
04-14-2005, 12:21 PM
30 tackles in one game??? is that even possible??

Sure it is. I had 22 once in a HS game....seriously.

CoMoChief
04-14-2005, 12:21 PM
you guys have to remember that GR coached the Broncos to a Super Bowl and yes I know that Elway and Davis took them there but with all due respect, you cant go to the Super Bowl unless you have a decent defense.

CoMoChief
04-14-2005, 12:22 PM
what HS you go to?

Mr. Kotter
04-14-2005, 12:25 PM
what HS you go to?

Leavenworth, KS....during the 1980 season....our Offense turned the ball over 8 times that game. We were on the field for somethin' like 47 or 48 minutes...and they ran a west coast offense. :banghead:

I was okay, but no.....I was not Div I prospect.

Deberg_1990
04-14-2005, 12:25 PM
He runs around way too many plays and, even with all those tackles, he whiffs far too much. Doesn't stack the way he should and will not stand up the lead-blocker. More of a drag-down tackler. Not an explosive blitzer.
.



Hmmm...sounds mysteriously like a Greg Robison coached player to me????

WilliamTheIrish
04-14-2005, 12:28 PM
I wish guys like L.P. had to keep stats of their correct/incorrect picks.

It would make for some fun BB action.

jspchief
04-14-2005, 12:30 PM
Hmmm...sounds mysteriously like a Greg Robison coached player to me????

He's a 4 year starter, Robinson has only been there one year.

I'll take my share of shots at Robinson, but what this kid does has little to do with G-Rob.

ChiefsCountry
04-14-2005, 12:38 PM
http://www.mackbrown-texasfootball.com/images/photo_galleries/2001_02/bu_110301/images/Derrick%20Johnson%201.jpg

http://www.mackbrown-texasfootball.com/images/2003_04/005_october/johnson_derrick_400_10.jpg

DaKCMan AP
04-14-2005, 12:42 PM
ILB Channing Crowder (Florida)

Vital statistics: 6 foot 2, 245 pounds, 4.67 in the 40.
Numbers game: Played mostly at tailback in high school and delayed enrollment at Florida while he rehabilitated a knee injury. Played in 20 games and started 17 of them, recording 179 tackles, 13 tackles for loss, four sacks, one pressure, two forced fumbles, three recoveries and an interception. Voted a team captain as a sophomore. Was an all-SEC choice in 2004. Was twice suspended, one game on each occasion, for scrapes with the law.

Upside: Has an undeniable swagger to him. Plays with a sense of urgency. Vocal on the field and just a naturally intense defender. Cuts through the traffic to get to the ball and, when he arrives, is an explosive hitter. Tries to de-cleat the ball carrier every chance he gets. Fancies himself an intimidator and, at times, certainly fills the role. Sheds nicely, really uses his hands well, strong enough to slap blockers away. Makes plays outside the box and can get out on the edge. Has some rush ability and times his blitzes well.

Downside: Not as fluid as you want, especially through the hips, and falls into the habit of not breaking down into a textbook football position. Sometimes allows his emotions to take over and will play out of control and with a lack of discipline. Got away with some freelancing in college that won't cut it at the next level. Has had knee problems and some off-field issues that could be a factor.

The dish: Teams are looking hard at his character and examining some of the off-field incidents in which he was involved, but seem almost as concerned with his knees. Might still sneak into the bottom of the first round, depending on individual teams, but could just as easily slip into the third round.

If he slips to the 3rd round and we don't try to move up and grab him I'll :deevee:

Mr. Laz
04-14-2005, 12:45 PM
If he slips to the 3rd round and we don't try to move up and grab him I'll :deevee:

i would think we would grab him in the 2nd if he's still there


1st - carlos rogers
2nd - Crowder or barnett or Roth

go bowe
04-14-2005, 12:49 PM
His alleged shortcomings are coachable....too bad Gun won't get the chance to polish this kid. :(i don't know...

pasta belly's description of him sounded eerily like donnie edwards, epsecially the part about dragging people down instead of knocking them down... :(

and donnie never got coached out of that habit - he still does it in sandy eggo, iirc...

Edubs
04-14-2005, 12:53 PM
Man if we had Bell in the middle and Johnson on the outside......hot dog that would be sweet. Yes I said it.....hot dog.

Mr. Kotter
04-14-2005, 01:46 PM
i don't know...

pasta belly's description of him sounded eerily like donnie edwards, epsecially the part about dragging people down instead of knocking them down... :(

and donnie never got coached out of that habit - he still does it in sandy eggo, iirc...

I understand your point, but would say...Donnie HAS gotten better; but his "draggin" people down was more a function of him relying on his speed, then not having the physical tools to dominate the ball carrier. I don't think, from what I've seen....that's the issue with Johnson.

DJ is more physical, and stronger than Edwards--but with his speed. I'd say his technique is more a function of him anticipating a second line of defense....or simply sloppy form, in some instances. He strikes me as someone who thinks a little too much as LB....rather than relying on his instincts. The upside to that is he doesn't gamble and get burned very often; the downside is he appears tentative and sloppy on occasion.

I've only seen him play 5 or 6 times (three last year) so I could be wrong, but that's my take.

ChiefsCountry
04-14-2005, 01:47 PM
Man if we had Bell in the middle and Johnson on the outside......hot dog that would be sweet. Yes I said it.....hot dog.

If Barber comes back healthy we will have one good linebacking core with that. Fujita is a nice solid starter, who will be one damn good backup.

Demonpenz
04-14-2005, 01:48 PM
i don't know...

pasta belly's description of him sounded eerily like donnie edwards, epsecially the part about dragging people down instead of knocking them down... :(

and donnie never got coached out of that habit - he still does it in sandy eggo, iirc...


the point over looked is on this point is that atleast they get taken down. I don't remember DT blowing people up anyway but with his speed he could jump on people and take them down.

Mr. Kotter
04-14-2005, 01:50 PM
the point over looked is on this point is that atleast they get taken down. I don't remember DT blowing people up anyway but with his speed he could jump on people and take them down.

Exactly...DT and DJ are simply more physical, more able to control more ball carriers, whereas Donnie jumps on the dude, and wrestles him to the ground or hopes for help.

tyton75
04-14-2005, 01:55 PM
I hope every journalist in America starts ripping his play.. so maybe some will listen to them and not pick him so that WE can get him!!

whoman69
04-14-2005, 02:22 PM
There is no way we take a pass on Derrick Johnson if he is there when we pick. Problem is, there is no way he'll be there when we pick unless Voyager picks for all the other teams.

nascher
04-14-2005, 02:31 PM
Hmm anyway we have to trade up to get him !

Mr. Flopnuts
04-14-2005, 03:12 PM
IMO this is a lot like my "she probably has a huge, wooly bush that I couldn't get through with a brush hog" thing I tell myself when really hot chicks go by and I'm looking for a way to feel Ok about the fact that I won't be going after it.


That's a pretty good analogy. I figured, at least if we don't get him, maybe he won't be the end all be all to LB for the next 5 years, like I think he will be.

tk13
04-14-2005, 04:06 PM
I'd agree if you were going to list his biggest weakness, missing a tackle here and there would be it. I'm not sure that I'd say he whiffs on a lot of plays, but that whole Texas defense had some horrendous tackling games... I watched their game against OSU and it was atrocious, which was ironic because GRob said before the season they'd be the best tackling team in the Big XII.

Ninjaman
04-14-2005, 04:25 PM
the article is good !

Thank you. It backs up what I was pointing out.

To be a high first rounder , you have have to almost have no flaws.

IF DJ can't be physical with lead blockers and only makes tackles following blocks instead of the backfield or 'point of attack' then he is a RISK !

A Kawika Mitchell combine workout clone ?

Logical
04-14-2005, 04:26 PM
I saw something on NFL Network about him that disturbs me more. A oood fullback was consistently knocking him on his ass. They were saying how good he is in pursuit but how he had shortcomings at the point of attack.

Too me with an NFL full of fullbacks that will knock him on his ass if he cannot stand up to them, this is a bigger worry. One that we won't experience, but a worry for some NFL team.

AustinChief
04-14-2005, 04:57 PM
I saw something on NFL Network about him that disturbs me more. A oood fullback was consistently knocking him on his ass. They were saying how good he is in pursuit but how he had shortcomings at the point of attack.

Too me with an NFL full of fullbacks that will knock him on his ass if he cannot stand up to them, this is a bigger worry. One that we won't experience, but a worry for some NFL team.

OK.. I watched alot of DJ (living in Austin you have no choice) and he isn't a huge point of attack.. blow the guy up, type of player. That said... he doesn't shy away from contact when it is appropriate. What I see him do more often than not, is to get into a perfect position to EITHER take a guy down OR knock the ball loose. At first this seemed rather risky to me but after a few YEARS of watching him, I noticed he rarely misses the tackle and OFTEN forces the fumble.. or at the very least makes the opposing players "over protect".

AT the #15 pick he would be a HUGE steal for us. I seriously doubt that will happen.

--Kyle

Logical
04-14-2005, 04:59 PM
OK.. I watched alot of DJ (living in Austin you have no choice) and he isn't a huge point of attack.. blow the guy up, type of player. That said... he doesn't shy away from contact when it is appropriate. What I see him do more often than not, is to get into a perfect position to EITHER take a guy down OR knock the ball loose. At first this seemed rather risky to me but after a few YEARS of watching him, I noticed he rarely misses the tackle and OFTEN forces the fumble.. or at the very least makes the opposing players "over protect".

AT the #15 pick he would be a HUGE steal for us. I seriously doubt that will happen.

--Kyle

I would definitely take him at 15, just I would not move up and lose out on Surtain over getting him.

Chiefnj
04-14-2005, 05:00 PM
He was pretty much a non-factor in Texas' bowl game this year.

AustinChief
04-14-2005, 05:06 PM
I would definitely take him at 15, just I would not move up and lose out on Surtain over getting him.

I agree.. not as much because of Surtain(though I don't want to take ANY risk of losing him).. but because I don't think our #2 ALONE would bump us up enough to guarantee anything anyway. Our #2 could MAYBE move us up to the 10th pick and then we are only protecting against the Cowboys taking DJ because no one else ahead of us (10-14) really needs him.

To be honest it would take ALOT more than our #2 to move up to a range that would assure me of getting him.. and then it really isn't worth it.

The best thing that can happen now is for his stock to keep dropping and pray that he drops. There isn't a single defensive player I would like to have more.. and Braylon Edwards is the only player overall that I would want more... but neither at the price we would have to pay. (damn those late season half-ass wins last years!)

--Kyle

milkman
04-14-2005, 07:29 PM
Leavenworth, KS....during the 1980 season....our Offense turned the ball over 8 times that game. We were on the field for somethin' like 47 or 48 minutes...and they ran a west coast offense. :banghead:

I was okay, but no.....I was not Div I prospect.

I graduated from Leavenworth High in '77.
You might have gone to school with my cousins Doug and Laurie Chinn.

Both were dumber than a box of rocks.

Tribal Warfare
04-14-2005, 07:35 PM
I
To be honest it would take ALOT more than our #2 to move up to a range that would assure me of getting him.. and then it really isn't worth it.



--Kyle


it would take a a 1st, 2nd, and 5th rounder according to the value chart


Derrick Johnson definitely worth it dude

Mr. Laz
04-14-2005, 07:37 PM
it take a 2nd and 5th rounder maybe a 6th too

according to the value chart


Derrick Johnson definitely worth it dude

depends on how much Johnson falls.


i wouldn't be shocked to see Johnson drop to 8th... linebackers tend to fall.

trading our 2nd rounder gets us up to 8th ... add just a little more and we get to 7th.

Woodrow Call
04-14-2005, 07:40 PM
Would you trade next years 1st rd pick? :hmmm:

Tribal Warfare
04-14-2005, 07:45 PM
Would you trade next years 1st rd pick? :hmmm:

really, I'm not sure if I would do that. It's a maybe though

Tribal Warfare
04-14-2005, 08:00 PM
that would get KC the #5 or #6 spot though

suds79
04-14-2005, 08:10 PM
I really hope this guy falls to us.

I've heard critics say he tries to jump around the blocks too much rather than take them on.

Funny thing is that Greg Robinson taught that kind of crap as the DC last year.

No matter If he does it or if he doesn't (jump around blocks), hopefully if Gunther gets his hands on D.J., he'll get all that garbage out of his head Robinson might have put in there.

Mr. Kotter
04-14-2005, 08:27 PM
I graduated from Leavenworth High in '77.
You might have gone to school with my cousins Doug and Laurie Chinn.

Both were dumber than a box of rocks.

80 was my freshman year; I graduated in 82. The names sound familiar...as for the dumber than a box of rocks, well....in LV, that doesn't narrow it down much. :banghead:

:p

Mr. Kotter
04-14-2005, 08:30 PM
Would you trade next years 1st rd pick? :hmmm:

Me? Straight up.....or with a low rounder tossed in? SURE. :thumb:

milkman
04-14-2005, 08:41 PM
80 was my freshman year; I graduated in 82. The names sound familiar...as for the dumber than a box of rocks, well....in LV, that doesn't narrow it down much. :banghead:

:p

Not too many Chinns roaming around, so I thought I'd check to see if you heard of us.

I moved to Wichita in '79, so you didn't even hit the HS before I left.