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htismaqe
04-15-2005, 09:54 PM
Thomas Davis.

I realize I'm going to take alot of heat for this one but here's my logic:

1) We need a HEADHUNTER. This guy is probably the best pure tackler in the draft. He's an Ed Reed, a Sean Taylor.

2) We need someone who can tackle at WSLB. Alot of scouts have compared Davis to Derrick Brooks.

3) We need a WSLB who can cover. Davis is an OLB, playing mostly SLB in his career, but he also played his last season at FS and can cover WR's as well as TE's.

And before you start talking about tweeners, please do yourself a favor and read his bio...he's a LB.

http://georgiadogs.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/davis_thomas00.html

htismaqe
04-15-2005, 09:54 PM
Of course, I'm assuming we get Patrick Surtain.

Count Alex's Losses
04-15-2005, 09:55 PM
He seems very small for a linebacker.

jspchief
04-15-2005, 09:57 PM
I love Davis but I'm not sure of the conversion to LB. Anyone that watched this kid play in college would like him. He reminds me of Ronnie Lott.

htismaqe
04-15-2005, 09:58 PM
6'1" 231 at the combine according to NFL.com.

Donnie Edwards is 6'2" 227.

Derrick Brooks is 6'0" 235.

Count Alex's Losses
04-15-2005, 10:00 PM
6'1" 231 at the combine according to NFL.com.

Donnie Edwards is 6'2" 227.

Derrick Brooks is 6'0" 235.

I guess that'd be fine then. I'd rather have Shawn Merriman but he could be gone by the time we're up.

Either way I think we have to get an OLB.

Woodrow Call
04-15-2005, 10:01 PM
I agree 100% with you. He is everthing this defense lacks and needs.

He could be an upgrade at Safety. He is the best safety in the draft.
He could be an upgrade at OLB. Might be right up there with DJ if he had played at OLB his Sr. season.

I would think Gunther would have to love getting a player like this.

Get Davis in the 1st
Get Webster in the 2nd

Best possible draft in IMO.

htismaqe
04-15-2005, 10:01 PM
I love Davis but I'm not sure of the conversion to LB. Anyone that watched this kid play in college would like him. He reminds me of Ronnie Lott.

He started more games at SSLB in his career than at FS. So if he were to play S in the NFL, THAT would be a "conversion".

htismaqe
04-15-2005, 10:03 PM
I guess that'd be fine then. I'd rather have Shawn Merriman but he could be gone by the time we're up.

Either way I think we have to get an OLB.

Merriman is absolutely the kind of guy we don't need.

Merriman will do much better in a 3-4 if he's going to play OLB. We need a WSLB that can both rush the passer AND cover passes...

jspchief
04-15-2005, 10:05 PM
He started more games at SSLB in his career than at FS. So if he were to play S in the NFL, THAT would be a "conversion".I wasn't aware of that. Everytime I saw him this year, I'm pretty sure he was playing safety. I hadn't watched him before this year. That just makes him that much more desireable. I definately love the way he plays the game.

jspchief
04-15-2005, 10:07 PM
Merriman is absolutely the kind of guy we don't need.

Merriman will do much better in a 3-4 if he's going to play OLB. We need a WSLB that can both rush the passer AND cover passes...Seems like a lot of the ends coming out this year are tweeners that are best suited for 3-4. I feel the same way about Pollack and maybe Roth as well.

nascher
04-15-2005, 10:10 PM
IF we get Patrick S. Davis would be "my" choice @15

I bet Gunther likes him !!!

SBK
04-15-2005, 10:54 PM
I've always wondered why more folks weren't on that dudes bandwagon. He's friggin nasty. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see us draft him (especially cause he's listed at S, and we know how the King likes S)

KChiefs1
04-15-2005, 11:12 PM
Is it possible to have 11 S's on the starting defense? :hmmm:

J Diddy
04-15-2005, 11:14 PM
Is it possible to have 11 S's on the starting defense? :hmmm:

I've done it before in madden.

About the same results as last years defense.

Tribal Warfare
04-15-2005, 11:19 PM
Thomas Davis is another Donnie Edwards. I still prefer a tradeup for the 242 lbs Texas LB Derrick Johnson

TEX
04-15-2005, 11:26 PM
Thomas Davis is another Donnie Edwards. I still prefer a tradeup for the 242 lbs Texas LB Derrick Johnson

Or another Larry Atkins... :hmmm:

Logical
04-15-2005, 11:37 PM
Nothing personal but I really hope you don't get your desire. I just do not have the faith in him as a potential LB. Probably would make a hella Strong safety in the NFL but how many of them does this team need. I base this on the power of players in the NFL, I will grant you Brooks but he is by an far away the exception to the rule. As to Donnie Edwards I still don't like him and the way he plays. I am not saying Edwards is not better than the LBs we had last year, he is, but I don't want to build a defense around him for the long term. 15 is a good spot, not a great spot in the draft, but with the right selection you can get a long term answer.

the Talking Can
04-15-2005, 11:44 PM
we could have signed Gold and saved the trouble....


j/k...I've never seen him play, if he's drafted as a LB, sure..as a safety, no thanks we've got 100 already

how's he compare to say Boss Bailey?

dtebbe
04-15-2005, 11:52 PM
For me its:
http://georgiadogs.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/pollack_david00.html

"But despite the individual honors, Polllack was about "Team." He was part of senior class that led Georgia to a four-year record of 42-10 which ranks sixth best in the country, top six final rankings in 2002 (3rd), 2003 (6th) and 2004 (6th), two SEC Eastern Division championships in 2002 and 2003 and the SEC title in '02. Pollack's teams also played in four bowl games."

I wish there was a way we could just take Georiga's entire 2004 defense...

DT

htismaqe
04-16-2005, 05:33 AM
I wasn't aware of that. Everytime I saw him this year, I'm pretty sure he was playing safety. I hadn't watched him before this year. That just makes him that much more desireable. I definately love the way he plays the game.

He played FS all of last year. He played exclusively SSLB the year before last.

htismaqe
04-16-2005, 05:34 AM
Seems like a lot of the ends coming out this year are tweeners that are best suited for 3-4. I feel the same way about Pollack and maybe Roth as well.

Pollack and Roth are true 4-3 DE's, IMO.

htismaqe
04-16-2005, 05:34 AM
Thomas Davis is another Donnie Edwards. I still prefer a tradeup for the 242 lbs Texas LB Derrick Johnson

You're obviously fixated with Derrick Johnson so I'm not going to spend too much time explaining anything to you.

htismaqe
04-16-2005, 05:35 AM
Or another Larry Atkins... :hmmm:

That's just dumb.

htismaqe
04-16-2005, 05:37 AM
Nothing personal but I really hope you don't get your desire. I just do not have the faith in him as a potential LB. Probably would make a hella Strong safety in the NFL but how many of them does this team need. I base this on the power of players in the NFL, I will grant you Brooks but he is by an far away the exception to the rule. As to Donnie Edwards I still don't like him and the way he plays. I am not saying Edwards is not better than the LBs we had last year, he is, but I don't want to build a defense around him for the long term. 15 is a good spot, not a great spot in the draft, but with the right selection you can get a long term answer.

A potential LB?

He's ALREADY a LB. That's what gets me. You say you don't have faith in him as a potential LB but that you think he'd make a hella SS, when he's a NATURAL LB and has NEVER PLAYED SS.

As for power, have you seen the guy play? Davis is a rare talent. He's right up there with recent guys like Reed, Vilma, and Taylor. Davis is the kind of guy you can build a defense around.

htismaqe
04-16-2005, 05:40 AM
we could have signed Gold and saved the trouble....

j/k...I've never seen him play, if he's drafted as a LB, sure..as a safety, no thanks we've got 100 already

how's he compare to say Boss Bailey?

I know you're kidding, but you seriously have a point. We could have signed Gold an avoided this discussion. For the record, Gold is 6'0", 223-pounds -- considerably smaller than Davis.

There's no way I draft this guy as a safety. We have a gaping hole at WSLB and that's what I'm looking at addressing.

As for how he compares to Boss Bailey, Bailey is taller, but they're similar athletically.

The Bad Guy
04-16-2005, 07:22 AM
Thomas Davis is another Donnie Edwards. I still prefer a tradeup for the 242 lbs Texas LB Derrick Johnson

Might want to post it in another thread in case we didn't get the picture from every other draft thread you talk about DJ in.:p

I still say you're going to be let down on draft day. If he's there at 10, there are going to be more suitors to trade up than just the Chiefs.

bricks
04-16-2005, 08:16 AM
Thomas Davis.

I realize I'm going to take alot of heat for this one but here's my logic:

1) We need a HEADHUNTER. This guy is probably the best pure tackler in the draft. He's an Ed Reed, a Sean Taylor.

2) We need someone who can tackle at WSLB. Alot of scouts have compared Davis to Derrick Brooks.

3) We need a WSLB who can cover. Davis is an OLB, playing mostly SLB in his career, but he also played his last season at FS and can cover WR's as well as TE's.

And before you start talking about tweeners, please do yourself a favor and read his bio...he's a LB.

http://georgiadogs.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/davis_thomas00.html

You know what? Coincedentally, I was thinking about this the other day. How about if those Chiefs drafted Thomas Davis? I think this is a realistic pick for the Chiefs. I think they can still trade down and he would possibly be there, and, they can still get some extra draft picks in return. Honestly though, I think he'll be there at 15. While I'd be satified if we drafted any position on defense, I say that because I think it use all the help in the world. I wouldn't be disappointed if we drafted a FS. I've seen other threads on this board where several people have just completely said "NO" to drafting a safety. Simply cause we have to many of them on our team, 12. Problem is, 11 of those 12 are simply not good. Thomas Davis would help this team tremendously. He brings everything Woods couldn't do last year. We need a playmaking, dominant safety. We haven't had one since Deron Cherry, imo.

*I do also like the fact Davis can play LB, so that make him versitile. I think the Chiefs will take him at 15 or 20, and, trade the 2nd for Surtain.

ZootedGranny
04-16-2005, 08:39 AM
He's not my favorite player on the board, but I'd have no problem with the Chiefs drafting Davis at all.

I'd want to see him play primarily at safety, but he'd give Gunther a lot more options with his ability, being able to go in as a nickel LB, and being able to run step for step with the #3 WR, or bust a guy across his face. He doesn't have the pedigree of Ed Reed or Taylor out of college, but he and Knight would put a fear in WRs that hasn't been seen here in a long time, even moreso than when Woods and Wesley were at their peak as a pair.

All that said, he's not my pick at that spot because he plays streaky, and goes for the hit rather than an easy INT frequently. And, there's something to be said for the Chiefs already having 84 safeties, and its not a pressing need. And as I said before, he doesn't have the clout out of college that Reed, Taylor or even Roy Williams had, and there's a reason. He's a damn good safety, but at #15 I don't know if I'd go there, especially if Carlos Rogers is there.

I'm still hoping for a trade up, but I think Derrick Johnson will be gone even before dropping to a spot where the Chiefs would be able to trade up, if they are able to after a possible Surtain trade.

bricks
04-16-2005, 08:58 AM
He's not my favorite player on the board, but I'd have no problem with the Chiefs drafting Davis at all.

I'd want to see him play primarily at safety, but he'd give Gunther a lot more options with his ability, being able to go in as a nickel LB, and being able to run step for step with the #3 WR, or bust a guy across his face. He doesn't have the pedigree of Ed Reed or Taylor out of college, but he and Knight would put a fear in WRs that hasn't been seen here in a long time, even moreso than when Woods and Wesley were at their peak as a pair.

All that said, he's not my pick at that spot because he plays streaky, and goes for the hit rather than an easy INT frequently. And, there's something to be said for the Chiefs already having 84 safeties, and its not a pressing need. And as I said before, he doesn't have the clout out of college that Reed, Taylor or even Roy Williams had, and there's a reason. He's a damn good safety, but at #15 I don't know if I'd go there, especially if Carlos Rogers is there.

I'm still hoping for a trade up, but I think Derrick Johnson will be gone even before dropping to a spot where the Chiefs would be able to trade up, if they are able to after a possible Surtain trade.

Paragraph 2, your 2nd last sentence is one of the reasons we should draft this guy. Last year, receivers made Woods and Wesley their b*tch. I remember the Tampa game, ugh...so digusted and pissed I was tempted to throw my television set out the window. How many times did our safeties, get bitch slapped, miss tackles, hit like a bunch of pansies, and, get ran over all over the field? Plenty. It was a joke. They, Woods and Wesley were a joke.

Now, we may have a lot of safeties on our roster, I hope you do realize that 11 of them really suck. Your joking when you say Safety is not a pressing need? I hope you are...Did you see Woods and Wesley last year they were God awful.
And I'm not counting on Harts and Pile to be studs either. I don't think Carlos Rodgers will be there at 15, 3 teams ahead of us want CB's.

I once thought about trading up, to get DJ...Love the guy, think he's gonna be a beast in the NFL...however, I do think it is a long shot to get him, and I agree with you he will be taken early in the draft. If we had to trade up to get him, say goodbye to most of this years picks, and, possibly some of next years I think...Is it worth the move? mmmn don't no. Not so sure on that. I'm more comfortable staying put at 15, or trading down, getting some more picks, trade the 2nd for Surtain, and draft Thomas Davis. Then, you'll have a secondary of Warfield/Surtain/Davis/Knight....far, far, far, improved. Talk about reconstruction!

Brock
04-16-2005, 09:03 AM
I wouldn't have a problem with that at all. He is a great D player.

ct
04-16-2005, 09:17 AM
I'd be nervous with this pick. Another tweener in the 1st? Risky...and we're not in a position to take this type of guy @15.

Brock
04-16-2005, 09:19 AM
I'd be nervous with this pick. Another tweener in the 1st? Risky...and we're not in a position to take this type of guy @15.

doesn't look like a tweener to me. I'd prefer a CB, but he's a nice consolation prize.

Rain Man
04-16-2005, 09:27 AM
Actually, Davis is in my top four. I wouldn't be unhappy with this pick unless they left Rolle on the board for some reason.

Coogs
04-16-2005, 09:39 AM
Thomas Davis.

I realize I'm going to take alot of heat for this one but here's my logic:

1) We need a HEADHUNTER. This guy is probably the best pure tackler in the draft. He's an Ed Reed, a Sean Taylor.

2) We need someone who can tackle at WSLB. Alot of scouts have compared Davis to Derrick Brooks.

3) We need a WSLB who can cover. Davis is an OLB, playing mostly SLB in his career, but he also played his last season at FS and can cover WR's as well as TE's.

And before you start talking about tweeners, please do yourself a favor and read his bio...he's a LB.

http://georgiadogs.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/davis_thomas00.html


:clap: :clap: :clap:

Welcome aboard. I've wanted Davis for quite some time now too. I hope it happens, but since we never draft who I hope we do, probably won't happen.

Dave Lane
04-16-2005, 09:51 AM
Is it possible to have 11 S's on the starting defense? :hmmm:

We could institute the dreaded 0-0-11 defense.

Dave

htismaqe
04-16-2005, 09:52 AM
You know what? Coincedentally, I was thinking about this the other day. How about if those Chiefs drafted Thomas Davis? I think this is a realistic pick for the Chiefs. I think they can still trade down and he would possibly be there, and, they can still get some extra draft picks in return. Honestly though, I think he'll be there at 15. While I'd be satified if we drafted any position on defense, I say that because I think it use all the help in the world. I wouldn't be disappointed if we drafted a FS. I've seen other threads on this board where several people have just completely said "NO" to drafting a safety. Simply cause we have to many of them on our team, 12. Problem is, 11 of those 12 are simply not good. Thomas Davis would help this team tremendously. He brings everything Woods couldn't do last year. We need a playmaking, dominant safety. We haven't had one since Deron Cherry, imo.

*I do also like the fact Davis can play LB, so that make him versitile. I think the Chiefs will take him at 15 or 20, and, trade the 2nd for Surtain.

Davis is going to play LB in the NFL. I was listening to PFW show this morning and everybody is scouting him as an OLB right now. New Orleans is showing the most interest...

htismaqe
04-16-2005, 09:53 AM
Might want to post it in another thread in case we didn't get the picture from every other draft thread you talk about DJ in.:p

I still say you're going to be let down on draft day. If he's there at 10, there are going to be more suitors to trade up than just the Chiefs.

No shit.

Derrick Johnson = Mike Peterson. :D

And the comparisons to a COMBINATION of Jack Hamm and Jack Lambert? Puh-lease. He hasn't played a down yet.

CosmicPal
04-16-2005, 09:54 AM
I wouldn't have a problem with Davis. I'm sure we could find a place, oh just about anywhere for him, on that defense.

Ebolapox
04-16-2005, 09:58 AM
intriguing... I'd be all for it if he turns out to be a good 'backer, but I'd hate you if he sucked :)

-EB-

DTLB58
04-16-2005, 10:06 AM
With the state of our defense any position on that side of the ball a case could be made for. That's why we need to be very careful in trading away picks. Yes, we need quality defenders but we need a lot of them also.

One week away, I can't wait :)

CosmicPal
04-16-2005, 10:27 AM
Well, I just finished my coffee and breakfast and reading the morning paper: The Rocky Mountain News staff posted their Top 100 players in the draft, and at #2 is Thomas Davis.

Mr. Laz
04-16-2005, 10:34 AM
No shit.

Derrick Johnson = Mike Peterson. :D

And the comparisons to a COMBINATION of Jack Hamm and Jack Lambert? Puh-lease. He hasn't played a down yet.
:hmmm:


Davis hasn't played a down yet either has he?!

Brock
04-16-2005, 10:39 AM
:hmmm:


Davis hasn't played a down yet either has he?!

Who's comparing him to Jack Lambert?

JimNasium
04-16-2005, 10:43 AM
Might want to post it in another thread in case we didn't get the picture from every other draft thread you talk about DJ in.:p

I still say you're going to be let down on draft day. If he's there at 10, there are going to be more suitors to trade up than just the Chiefs.
TW always has his pet draft pick and always goes way overboard in pimping him. Several years back it was Ashley Lelie and no matter which thread you opened you got to hear about him. :rolleyes:

Mr. Laz
04-16-2005, 10:45 AM
Who's comparing him to Jack Lambert?
just wonder how pimping one player is allowed but not another

PHOG
04-16-2005, 11:05 AM
If the CB that we(I) want is already gone, then trade down and grab him....

As has already been mentioned several times, any D pick would be good, (except DT IMO), but playing him (Davis) at LB in the NFL would have its growing pains....as any other draft pick is going to have the same pains. If he were to be utilized as an LB then fine, but puhleeeze don't play him as a safety.....

Bowser
04-16-2005, 12:13 PM
Nice post, htis. And I'm inclined to agree.

Now for the love of God, change your avi!

Spicy McHaggis
04-16-2005, 12:22 PM
I think that no matter where Davis lines up on the field he is the kind of player that is a difference maker. And as htis pointed out its less of a conversion for him to go back to LB then it would be to stay at safety. If Boulware can become the starting SS for Seattle after playing LB in his college career then Davis can easily convert back.

When it's all said and done after being in the Chiefs weight-training he'll probably play at 230-235 lb. That's fine with me as there are many LB's in that mold which have succeeded in the NFL. A playmaker who can run, cover and lay the wood. I ask for little else.

bricks
04-16-2005, 12:26 PM
Davis is going to play LB in the NFL. I was listening to PFW show this morning and everybody is scouting him as an OLB right now. New Orleans is showing the most interest...

either or I don't mind as long as the guy can play. We could use either a FS or a LB.

bricks
04-16-2005, 12:29 PM
Thomas Davis.

He's an Ed Reed, a Sean Taylor.

2) We need someone who can tackle at WSLB. Alot of scouts have compared Davis to Derrick Brooks.

If there is a lot of truth in your statements, I'm all for grabbing this guy, and, not trading up for Johnson.

bricks
04-16-2005, 12:30 PM
what I'm wondering is whether he stays the same weight or not, and, the Chiefs plan to use him at both LB and S. Give the team more options...which isn't a bad thing, versitility is good.

bricks
04-16-2005, 12:50 PM
the article doesn't state much about his game, it just blabs on about his accomplishments. All it says is that he is an excellent tackler, especially in the open field. I noticed Georgia planned to use him as a LB originally, till there starting safety got hurt, and they we're forced to move Davis to safety. He played SLB. Think he can play WLB? I don't see how these scouts can compare him to Derrick Brooks when he hasn't even played WLB, and, was a safety for a majority of his career in college. He's too small to play LB in the NFL, needs to add 10 pounds.

philfree
04-16-2005, 01:23 PM
Thomas Davis.

I realize I'm going to take alot of heat for this one but here's my logic:

1) We need a HEADHUNTER. This guy is probably the best pure tackler in the draft. He's an Ed Reed, a Sean Taylor.

2) We need someone who can tackle at WSLB. Alot of scouts have compared Davis to Derrick Brooks.

3) We need a WSLB who can cover. Davis is an OLB, playing mostly SLB in his career, but he also played his last season at FS and can cover WR's as well as TE's.

And before you start talking about tweeners, please do yourself a favor and read his bio...he's a LB.

http://georgiadogs.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/davis_thomas00.html

I've been hot on Davis ever since I watched him play in the Bowl game the Dawgs played in. We get Surtain on board and then draft Davis to go along with Bell and Knight and our D wikk kick ass.

PhilFree::arrow:

Ebolapox
04-16-2005, 01:25 PM
TW always has his pet draft pick and always goes way overboard in pimping him. Several years back it was Ashley Lelie and no matter which thread you opened you got to hear about him. :rolleyes:

TW pimping DJ is much like voyeur...errr... voyager pimping philip buchannansucks

--EB-

shaneo69
04-16-2005, 01:35 PM
I'd rather have Carlos Rogers in the 1st and Boley in the 2nd.

T. Davis reminds me of Cie Grant.

Ebolapox
04-16-2005, 01:37 PM
cie grant... now that's a name I haven't heard in a while

-EB-

Coogs
04-16-2005, 03:14 PM
If the CB that we(I) want is already gone, then trade down and grab him....

I don't think we can trade down and get Davis. Almost every mock I have seen has him going to the Saints. If not the Saints, the the Bengals. WE pick 15. Saints are 16, and the Bengals are 17. If Davis is the pick, 15 is most likely where it is at.

As far as learning curve, I don't see it. The guy is a football player. And he has played LB. He will be fine.

nascher
04-16-2005, 04:06 PM
Get him Carl p. (aka Safety lover) :)

Coogs
04-16-2005, 04:47 PM
I know this has been posted a couple of other times, but thought it fit here as well. So again (also from nfl.com)...

It's not always about the need for speed


By Pat Kirwan
NFL.com Senior Analyst


(March 21, 2005) -- The NFL scouting combine is now a month behind us and many of the on-campus workouts are complete. There is a significant amount of measurable information gathered to help paint a picture of the athletic ability of many of the prospects. It goes without saying that how each and every one of the draft-eligible prospects perform on game tape is still the most important element to the final decisions, but I always like to dig inside the numbers looking for clues about each and every player.

Recently, I took the 40-yard dash times for players with a draftable grade and compared them to the results in the short-shuttle test. A player with a cumulative grade that indicates he should be one of the 250 athletes drafted in April indicates he's distinguished himself in some way on tape as a football player.

Then I looked for athletes with average-to-below average 40-yard times for their position who make up for the lack of long straight speed with exceptional quickness and change of direction. As we all know, unless you're on the kickoff team or running a "go" route at the wide receiver position, it's almost impossible to find a spot in a football game where you can identify a 40-yard dash. A lack of great straight speed can easily be offset by the ability to explode out of a stance, change direction in five yards, explode again for 10 yards and then change direction again, all while keeping your weight down. The short shuttle can be a much better indication of your ability to play football fast. I didn't say an indication of the ability to play football, but rather of the ability to play football fast.

I handled the speed training for the players when I was with the Jets for three years back in the early 90s. My general rule of thumb for comparing speed (the 40-yard dash time) to quickness and change of direction (the 20-yard short-shuttle test) was to take the 40 time and subtract the short-shuttle time and expect a 0.5 difference. For example, a player with a 5.0 40 time needs to run a 4.5 short shuttle to get the 0.5 differential. Simply stated, his speed and his quickness relate to each other. A man who runs a 4.4 40 and a 4.4 short shuttle is really a guy with straight-line speed who may not play very fast because of a lack of quickness. He is often referred to as a guy with "track speed." Conversely, an athlete who runs an average time of 4.7 in the 40 but can hit the short shuttle in 3.9 -- significantly better than the 0.5 differential -- can overcome his average speed with great quickness and change of direction.

Here are some very draftable players who demonstrated they are a lot quicker than they are fast and have overcome their pedestrian 40 times with a test that means a lot more to most football coaches:


NAME SCHOOL POS. 40 TIME SHORT SHUTTLE DIFFERENCE
1. JASON
BROWN NORTH CAROLINA C 5.40 4.51 0.89
2. DAVID POLLACK GEORGIA DE 4.75 3.90 0.85
3. CHRIS KEMOEATU UTAH OG 5.21 4.54 0.80
4. JASON
WHITE OKLAHOMA QB 4.99 4.19 0.80
5. BARRETT RUUD NEBRASKA LB 4.72 3.94 0.78
6. DAN
BUENNING WISCONSIN OG 5.33 4.59 0.74
7. MARCUS JOHNSON MISSISSIPPI OG 5.45 4.71 0.74
8. JOEL DREESSEN COLORADO STATE TE 4.72 4.01 0.71
9. CHARLIE
FRYE AKRON QB 4.79 4.08 0.71
10. THOMAS DAVIS GEORGIA S 4.59 3.97 0.62
11. CHRIS SPENCER MISSISSIPPI C 5.21 4.59 0.62
12. MARLIN JACKSON MICHIGAN S 4.53 3.96 0.57


There were a few others who beat the 0.5 differential in the time comparisons, but these are the dozen players who caught my eye that their quickness and change of direction (COD) trump the lack of ideal speed. Note that the offensive linemen who are all well over 300 pounds demonstrate an excellent ability to pull, get out to the linebacker level and move their feet in a short area, which is critical to doing their job on the football field. There's a reason David Pollack at just 6-foot-2 and 265 pounds with short arms had 36 sacks, 117 QB pressures and 58 tackles for a loss. He is relentless on film, but he also has extraordinary quickness and COD. I promise you a defensive end with 4.50 speed can't play as fast as David Pollack. Barrett Ruud is up against a number of linebackers with a faster 40 time but his field quickness is a big reason he finished his college career with 432 tackles.

Anyone can read numbers and tell you who the fastest or the strongest person is, but it's the ability to see the athletic potential and the playing speed along with the tools to compensate in one area or another, and for me seeing past an average 40 time because quickness and COD are present is an important clue about a prospect. No one is giving Oklahoma QB Jason White much of a chance to make it in the NFL. His knees may be questionable and his arm may be barely average, but he has quickness and has won on the college level, so at least don't get hung up on his 4.99 40 time when you see 4.19 in the short shuttle. A guy who can buy time in the pocket has a chance in this league.

Logical
04-16-2005, 05:18 PM
A potential LB?

He's ALREADY a LB. That's what gets me. You say you don't have faith in him as a potential LB but that you think he'd make a hella SS, when he's a NATURAL LB and has NEVER PLAYED SS.

As for power, have you seen the guy play? Davis is a rare talent. He's right up there with recent guys like Reed, Vilma, and Taylor. Davis is the kind of guy you can build a defense around.


All draft choices are at best potential position players, that was not the dis you took it as. I look at him from a size standpoint he is the size of a good to great strong safety, but is way too small for a good to great OLB. Now like I said there are exceptions like Derrick Brooks but I do not want us drafting this year based on a guy that can be an exception if he develops. Sure he might but the Chiefs have a horrible history using this methodology.

htismaqe
04-16-2005, 05:23 PM
:hmmm:


Davis hasn't played a down yet either has he?!

I'm not stating Davis is two Hall of Famers COMBINED, am I?

eazyb81
04-16-2005, 05:25 PM
If we draft Davis to play WLB, what do we do with Fujita? Do we move him to SLB? If not, who will play SLB? I like the Davis pick, but I think SLB is a bigger need right now and I don't think Davis is big enough to play there.

htismaqe
04-16-2005, 05:26 PM
just wonder how pimping one player is allowed but not another

You've obviously chosen to act ignorant.

Voyager, err Tribal Warfare, wasn't JUST "pimping" Derrick Johnson. He's said several times that Derrick Johnson is a combination of Jack Lambert and Jack Hamm...

htismaqe
04-16-2005, 05:28 PM
If we draft Davis to play WLB, what do we do with Fujita? Do we move him to SLB? If not, who will play SLB? I like the Davis pick, but I think SLB is a bigger need right now and I don't think Davis is big enough to play there.

Um, Fujita IS our SSLB. Shawn Barber was our starting WSLB.

htismaqe
04-16-2005, 05:29 PM
the article doesn't state much about his game, it just blabs on about his accomplishments. All it says is that he is an excellent tackler, especially in the open field. I noticed Georgia planned to use him as a LB originally, till there starting safety got hurt, and they we're forced to move Davis to safety. He played SLB. Think he can play WLB? I don't see how these scouts can compare him to Derrick Brooks when he hasn't even played WLB, and, was a safety for a majority of his career in college. He's too small to play LB in the NFL, needs to add 10 pounds.

That was precisely why I posted that particular bio. I wasn't interested in hyping his skills or his game but rather pointing out his accomplishments - primarily that he's started more games at SSLB than FS in his career.

NaptownChief
04-16-2005, 05:29 PM
Davis is extremely high on my wish list...He isn't at our biggest need position but is one of the more sure things in the draft IMO. Davis, Derrick Johnson and Carlos Rogers are all studs that would be huge pick ups for the Chief D...any of the three would be great picks. I think Davis is the most sure thing on the defensive side of the ball...Biggest question would be to play him at safety or LB'er...Either way I don't think you could go wrong.

beer bacon
04-16-2005, 05:29 PM
If we draft Davis to play WLB, what do we do with Fujita? Do we move him to SLB? If not, who will play SLB? I like the Davis pick, but I think SLB is a bigger need right now and I don't think Davis is big enough to play there.

Isn't Fuj already the starting SLB and Barber the starting WLB, or am I just confused?

eazyb81
04-16-2005, 05:32 PM
Um, Fujita IS our SSLB. Shawn Barber was our starting WSLB.

really? my bad, I thought Fooj was our will. :banghead:

carry on...

crossbow
04-16-2005, 05:33 PM
I give you props for picking a safety because we only have like 12 of them. I also give major thumbs up for getting a guy that you want to convert to a different position that he will drafted from. Man, you nailed the Chiefs philosophy with that one. But I give you a failing grade for chosing a guy that can play now instead of using a high draft pick on a guy with "upside" or "potential". To make matters worse, you picked a guy that can tackle. Sorry, but if he can tackle he will confuse our coaching staff so he would end up becoming a major bust. They wouldn't know what to do with him.

htismaqe
04-16-2005, 05:34 PM
All draft choices are at best potential position players, that was not the dis you took it as. I look at him from a size standpoint he is the size of a good to great strong safety, but is way too small for a good to great OLB. Now like I said there are exceptions like Derrick Brooks but I do not want us drafting this year based on a guy that can be an exception if he develops. Sure he might but the Chiefs have a horrible history using this methodology.

Size of a safety?

He's 6'1" 231 pounds.

He's 5 pounds heavier than Donovin Darius, and a ful THIRTY pounds heavier than Ed Reed. The average NFL SS is about 215.

He's a LINEBACKER. Period.

Logical
04-16-2005, 05:38 PM
I don't like this draft class for linebackers unless you are talking a 3-4 defense. Except for DJ I feel that only O'Dell Thurman and Channing Crowder are true 4-3 guys. Both of those guys should be picked no higher than the 2nd round. If we are truly determined to get a LB and have no shot at DJ I feel we should trade our 1st for 2 2nds (if that is a possibility), give up one for Surtain and use both of the other 2 2nd rounders to try and get either Crowder or Thurman and move Bell outside. Then use the other 2nd for the best true CB avaiable

Logical
04-16-2005, 05:40 PM
I give you props for picking a safety because we only have like 12 of them. I also give major thumbs up for getting a guy that you want to convert to a different position that he will drafted from. Man, you nailed the Chiefs philosophy with that one. But I give you a failing grade for chosing a guy that can play now instead of using a high draft pick on a guy with "upside" or "potential". To make matters worse, you picked a guy that can tackle. Sorry, but if he can tackle he will confuse our coaching staff so he would end up becoming a major bust. They wouldn't know what to do with him.
ROFL I cannot wait for Titus's reaction to this post, classic.

Logical
04-16-2005, 05:41 PM
really? my bad, I thought Fooj was our will. :banghead:

carry on...Don't feel bad, so did I.

shaneo69
04-16-2005, 05:44 PM
That was precisely why I posted that particular bio. I wasn't interested in hyping his skills or his game but rather pointing out his accomplishments - primarily that he's started more games at SSLB than FS in his career.

Where are you getting this info from? This article from today's P-D says that he started his soph year at OLB then played FS in '03 and '04.

Highly regarded safety from Georgia visits
By Jim Thomas
Of the Post-Dispatch
04/15/2005

Friday was the last day for pre-draft visits, and the Rams went out with a bang. Headlining a group of four players who visited Rams Park was safety Thomas Davis of Georgia.

Davis has the size of a weakside linebacker (6-1, 230) with the quickness of some cornerbacks. He's the best safety in this year's draft pool, and the Rams might just stop the draft and hold a parade if he's still available at No. 19 overall in the first round. Trouble is, most mock drafts don't have him getting by New Orleans at No. 16, three picks before St. Louis.

Because of his size, and style of play at Georgia, some NFL teams have him projected as a linebacker in the pros.

"Just given what a team needs, I'll be willing to go anywhere, play anything," Davis said at the NFL Scouting Combine.

He proved that several years ago at Randolph-Clay High in Shellman, Ga., handling his team's punting and kicking chores.

"I hit a couple extra points," Davis said. "I think I've got the school record down there. It wasn't very many."

In college, Davis hit more than a few running backs and receivers. He's a big hitter, and a good blitzer who plays with reckless abandon. Sometimes that results in Davis over-pursuing a play. Despite his hitting ability, some observers feel he could use more time in the weight room to build up his strength.

At Georgia, Davis played strongside linebacker in '02, and then switched to free safety in '03 and '04. Although his job title was free safety, he played more like a strong safety, with a lot of run-stuffing responsibilities. Davis freely admits his pass coverage needs polishing.

"I feel like the coverage will be a question because a lot of the times at Georgia, I was mainly used coming down in the box," Davis said. "Or basically, we were just playing zone. We weren't playing a lot of man at Georgia. ... But I feel like I'll show teams that I'm capable of doing it. I have the speed to go out and cover."

Davis ran a surprisingly slow time - for him - of 4.6 seconds in the 40-yard dash at the combine, but was down in the 4.4s at his pro day at Georgia.


http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/rams/story/9948DEC65543AA5886256FE500188947?OpenDocument

NaptownChief
04-16-2005, 05:47 PM
Robert McCune from Louisville is a brick shit house that I would like to get in the 3rd round. I think he can play inside or out and it wouldn't matter if it were 3-4, 4-3 or whatever.

6'1" 245lb runs like the wind and hits like a truck...Only problem with him is he is 26 years old due to serving in the military before college. If it weren't for his age he would be a late 1st early 2nd type of talent.

tk13
04-16-2005, 05:50 PM
I'm not stating Davis is two Hall of Famers COMBINED, am I?
I think Ed Reed has a pretty good shot at being a HOF'er...

I don't know, that's high praise. I've only watched Georgia play a handful of times and most of the time I'd watch Pollack and the D-line when they were on defense so I haven't really seen him as much as most here I guess. How many times did Davis actually play LB in college? Doesn't seem like much. There's just something unsettling about having to rely on a LB who'll have to adjust to the NFL level, and his fallback position is at S. I do imagine just in general he'd probably have less of a learning curve than a CB though. Interesting idea, I'm sure people will flip next Sat. though if we pick him and everyone sees that "S" next to his name, much like we all did when we saw Kris Wilson last year.

shaneo69
04-16-2005, 05:55 PM
Robert McCune from Louisville is a brick shit house that I would like to get in the 3rd round.

Only problem with him is he is 26 years old due to serving in the military before college. If it weren't for his age he would be a late 1st early 2nd type of talent.

Don't worry.....being older is not a problem for the Chiefs. They like the 25 year old college guys who dominate the 21 year olds. Tait, Stills, and Siavii were all guys like that. The Chiefs don't look at them as being "overaged", they just consider them more "mature".

htismaqe
04-16-2005, 06:15 PM
I don't like this draft class for linebackers unless you are talking a 3-4 defense. Except for DJ I feel that only O'Dell Thurman and Channing Crowder are true 4-3 guys. Both of those guys should be picked no higher than the 2nd round. If we are truly determined to get a LB and have no shot at DJ I feel we should trade our 1st for 2 2nds (if that is a possibility), give up one for Surtain and use both of the other 2 2nd rounders to try and get either Crowder or Thurman and move Bell outside. Then use the other 2nd for the best true CB avaiable

Thurman is staying in school.

htismaqe
04-16-2005, 06:19 PM
Where are you getting this info from? This article from today's P-D says that he started his soph year at OLB then played FS in '03 and '04.


You're right.

I missed the move BACK to FS in 2003.

eazyb81
04-16-2005, 06:27 PM
Thurman is staying in school.

No he isn't. Where have you heard that he is staying in school? Every draft site lists him as a prospect, and on last night's Sportscenter Mel Kiper talked about him as one of the better LBs in this year's class. I think you got some misinformation.

htismaqe
04-16-2005, 06:31 PM
No he isn't. Where have you heard that he is staying in school? Every draft site lists him as a prospect, and on last night's Sportscenter Mel Kiper talked about him as one of the better LBs in this year's class. I think you got some misinformation.

Yeah, I just saw his name on NFL Draft Countdown as a 2nd-round prospect.

A couple of other sites said he was staying in school. They're obviously wrong.

Logical
04-16-2005, 06:45 PM
Thurman is staying in school.

Someone should tell the NFL Network, they had him being drafted in the 2nd round in today's Playbook.:shrug:

Logical
04-16-2005, 06:46 PM
Yeah, I just saw his name on NFL Draft Countdown as a 2nd-round prospect.

A couple of other sites said he was staying in school. They're obviously wrong.

I missed this post by you sorry.

booger
04-16-2005, 07:03 PM
Robert McCune from Louisville is a brick shit house that I would like to get in the 3rd round. I think he can play inside or out and it wouldn't matter if it were 3-4, 4-3 or whatever.

6'1" 245lb runs like the wind and hits like a truck...Only problem with him is he is 26 years old due to serving in the military before college. If it weren't for his age he would be a late 1st early 2nd type of talent.


:thumb: I totally agree. He is a guy that makes alot of sense for us. With 10 picks I think we should draft more than 1 lb anyway. Fujita will be a URFA next year and we have no depth as is. I was hoping because of his age McCune might slip to the 5th rd or so. I think he could be taken as high as the end of rd 2 more than likely 3rd 4th rd range. I'd be all for it if he was still there at #99. He is one of the better complete LB prospects in this draft and consistantly runs in the 4.5 range.

crossbow
04-16-2005, 07:07 PM
What do you guys think of drafting that defensive player from OU who has depression and anxiety attacks? He would come to the team with the drugs and experience you need to watch our defense. :banghead:

booger
04-16-2005, 07:14 PM
Htis-

I agree with you on your take of Davis. Aside from DJ, he might be the best option for a WLB for us. Also aside from DJ he might have the most play making ability as a total LB too. I like Merriman but if he plays OLB in a 4-3 it would have to be strongside IMO. Although some scouts think he could fit as a MLB as well. It really doesn't matter with him though as we would probably have to trade up to get him like DJ. I like Blackstock too, but he is strickly a pass rusher at this point. He doesn't play the run or pass well and was in a 3-4 system at Virginia. Demarcus Ware has alot of talent as well, and might be the guy who could adjust and play LB and rush the passer on 3rd down. I just don't think he would be a wlb guy but more of a Sside guy over the te.

With the addition of Hall, LB becomes the biggest need for us outside of CB. I think and hope we will get something done with miami for surtain.

Best case scenario is we have to choose between a guy like Rogers or jones (one might be left at 15) or Davis as a wlb. Otherwise I hope we trade down a few spots to pick up a 2nd or 3rd and look for a guy like Burnett.

eazyb81
04-16-2005, 07:25 PM
Another bit of info I found:

Jonathan Vilma 6'1" 230

I always thought of Vilma as a big guy, but apparently he just plays big. The more I think about it, the more sold I am on Davis.

Woodrow Call
04-16-2005, 07:29 PM
Another bit of info I found:

Jonathan Vilma 6'1" 230

I always thought of Vilma as a big guy, but apparently he just plays big. The more I think about it, the more sold I am on Davis.
:thumb:

milkman
04-16-2005, 07:31 PM
Bottom line for this D is that we need playmakers, and guys that can tackle.

If he can do both, then I can get behind this pick.

beer bacon
04-16-2005, 07:35 PM
Bottom line for this D is that we need playmakers, and guys that can tackle.

If he can do both, then I can get behind this pick.

No I am sorry, 250+ pound LB or bust!

htismaqe
04-16-2005, 07:37 PM
Htis-

I agree with you on your take of Davis. Aside from DJ, he might be the best option for a WLB for us. Also aside from DJ he might have the most play making ability as a total LB too. I like Merriman but if he plays OLB in a 4-3 it would have to be strongside IMO. Although some scouts think he could fit as a MLB as well. It really doesn't matter with him though as we would probably have to trade up to get him like DJ. I like Blackstock too, but he is strickly a pass rusher at this point. He doesn't play the run or pass well and was in a 3-4 system at Virginia. Demarcus Ware has alot of talent as well, and might be the guy who could adjust and play LB and rush the passer on 3rd down. I just don't think he would be a wlb guy but more of a Sside guy over the te.

With the addition of Hall, LB becomes the biggest need for us outside of CB. I think and hope we will get something done with miami for surtain.

Best case scenario is we have to choose between a guy like Rogers or jones (one might be left at 15) or Davis as a wlb. Otherwise I hope we trade down a few spots to pick up a 2nd or 3rd and look for a guy like Burnett.

:toast:

htismaqe
04-16-2005, 07:37 PM
Another bit of info I found:

Jonathan Vilma 6'1" 230

I always thought of Vilma as a big guy, but apparently he just plays big. The more I think about it, the more sold I am on Davis.

DING! DING! DING!

htismaqe
04-16-2005, 07:39 PM
Bottom line for this D is that we need playmakers, and guys that can tackle.

If he can do both, then I can get behind this pick.

That's just the thing.

He's a natural tackler and flows to the ball well. He's ALSO disruptive in the backfield. He's ALSO a good pass rusher. He's ALSO good in pass coverage and can make the interception.

This guy is a VERY RARE talent.

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/playerprofiles/s/thomasdavis.html

milkman
04-16-2005, 07:40 PM
Question is, have the Chiefs even sniffed his way?

booger
04-16-2005, 07:42 PM
Question is, have the Chiefs even sniffed his way?
He is one of the players who is visiting IIRC.

booger
04-16-2005, 07:55 PM
Hell, ya might be onto something.

Apparently Rich Gosselin's new mock has us taking Davis at 15. Sorry no link.

nascher
04-16-2005, 07:57 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=fanball-chiefsprospectstovis&prov=fanball&type=lgns


Chiefs entertain options

List of players visiting Arrowhead says much about the team's plans for the NFL draft

By ADAM TEICHER

The Kansas City Star

The Chiefs are putting the final touches on preparations for the upcoming NFL draft by doing some entertaining.

They planned to meet this week at Arrowhead Stadium with 19 prospects for the April 23-24 draft. Not surprisingly, given their desperate need for talented prospects who can pose problems for the opposing offense, 15 are defensive players.

Seven of the defenders are considered certain first-round picks by one team or another: defensive end Erasmus James of Wisconsin, linebackers Derrick Johnson of Texas and Demarcus Ware of Troy, cornerbacks Carlos Rogers of Auburn and Fabian Washington of Nebraska, and safeties Thomas Davis of Georgia and Brodney Pool of Oklahoma.

The others are later-round choices or after-draft free agents.

The visits aren't necessarily a sign the Chiefs are interested in drafting these players. They may believe they have enough information on certain draft prospects while wanting a closer look at others.

But the list of visiting draft prospects can show what the Chiefs are thinking. In many years, they spent time at Arrowhead before the draft with several players they wound up selecting.

Johnson, generally regarded as the top linebacker in the draft, doesn't figure to last until the Chiefs make their first selection with the 15th pick. His visit raises the question of whether they plan to trade up to a favorable spot.

Many of the other potential first-round visitors could be available after the 15th pick, which could mean the Chiefs are hoping to move down while also acquiring an additional later choice or two.

Linebacker is the position of most obvious need for the Chiefs. They signed Pittsburgh free agent Kendrell Bell, but three top starting candidates, Scott Fujita, Shawn Barber and Mike Maslowski, have injury issues that may prevent them from being ready when the season begins.

Monty Beisel, who would have been a starting candidate, signed instead last week as a free agent with the Patriots.

The Chiefs have a third linebacking prospect, Jordan Beck of Cal Poly, visiting this week.

The Chiefs may draft a cornerback in an early round whether or not they make the trade with Miami for veteran Patrick Surtain. They planned to meet this week with five cornerbacks, including Rogers and Washington.

The others are LSU's Corey Webster, Virginia Tech's Eric Green and Oklahoma State's Darrent Williams. These three are generally considered to be second- or third-round choices.

The Chiefs are heavy with veteran safeties after signing Sammy Knight to join incumbent starters Greg Wesley and Jerome Woods. That makes their visits with Pool and Davis the most intriguing. The Chiefs will also meet with two other later-round safeties: Nebraska's Josh Bullocks and Fresno State's James Sanders.

At defensive end, the Chiefs appear set after trading for Tennessee's Carlos Hall, who will join starters Jared Allen and Eric Hicks in the playing rotation. But they planned to meet with not only James, but two other later-round or free-agent ends: Arkansas' Jeb Huckeba and Stanford's Will Svitek.

The four offensive visitors are running back Damien Nash of Missouri, wide receivers Mark Bradley of Oklahoma and Roydell Williams of Tulane and tackle Todd Herremans of Saginaw Valley State.

• FUJITA FINE: Coach Dick Vermeil said the Chiefs were pleased with the recent arthroscopic surgery on Fujita's ankle.

“They just cleaned the ankle out,” Vermeil said. “He had some soft tissue problem in there and floating particles. He'll be fine.”

• MISSING MONTY: The loss of Beisel hit Vermeil hard on a number of levels. Not only was Beisel a possible starter and top special-teams player, but his consistent effort made him Vermeil's type of player.

“That just crushed me,” Vermeil said. “I understand his decision. They told him he might be a starter. But we invested four years with the kid and converted him (from defensive end) and made him into a player at another position or else he's probably not even in the league. Then, all of a sudden, we get him to the point where maybe you can get even more miles out of him and he's gone. I miss him already.”
Invited guests

The Chiefs plan to meet with the following draft prospects this week at Arrowhead Stadium:

Pos. Player College
LB Jordan Beck Cal Poly
WR Mark Bradley Oklahoma
S Josh Bullocks Nebraska
S Thomas Davis Georgia
CB Eric Green Virginia Tech
OT Todd Herremans Saginaw Valley St.
DE Jeb Huckeba Arkansas
DE Erasmus James Wisconsin
LB Derrick Johnson Texas
RB Damien Nash Missouri
S Brodney Pool Oklahoma
CB Carlos Rogers Auburn
S James Sanders Fresno State
DE Will Svitek Stanford
LB Demarcus Ware Troy
CB Fabian Washington Nebraska
CB Corey Webster LSU
CB Darrent Williams Oklahoma State
WR Roydell Williams Tulane

nascher
04-16-2005, 08:00 PM
Rick Gosselin's NFL mock draft (4/17)


Team Player Pos. School
1. San Francisco Aaron Rodgers QB Cal
Comment: Bay Area team, Bay Area quarterback
2. Miami Alex Smith QB Utah
Comment: Life hasn't been good without Dan Marino
3. Cleveland Braylon Edwards WR Michigan
Comment: Trent Dilfer needs a go-to guy
4. Chicago Ronnie Brown HB Auburn
Comment: Bears finished 25th in rushing
5. Tampa Bay Cedric Benson HB Texas
Comment: Bucs finished 29th in rushing
6. Tennessee Antrel Rolle CB Miami-F
Comment: Replace one Rolle (Samari) with another
7. Minnesota Troy Williamson WR S. Carolina
Comment: Speed receiver to replace Randy Moss
8. Arizona Carnell Williams HB Auburn
Comment: Backfield vacancy with Emmitt gone
9. Washington Adam Jones CB West Virginia
Comment: Joe Gibbs drafts another Darrell Green
10. Detroit Derrick Johnson OLB Texas
Comment: Playmaker for a play-deficient defense
11. DALLAS Marcus Spears DE LSU
Comment: Bill Parcells wants a defense with muscle
12. San Diego Shawne Merriman DE Maryland
Comment: NFL's 29th-ranked pass rush needs help
13. Houston Demarcus Ware OLB Troy
Comment: Best speed pass-rush in the draft
14. Carolina Erasmus James DE Wisconsin
Comment: The NFL's best defensive line gets better
15. Kansas City Thomas Davis S Georgia
Comment: A Roy Williams clone
16. New Orleans Carlos Rogers CB Auburn
Comment: NFL's 27th-ranked pass defense needs help
Team Player Pos. School
17. Cincinnati Mike Williams WR Southern Cal
Comment: Carson Palmer also threw to Williams at USC
18. Minnesota David Pollack DE Georgia
Comment: High-energy player to replace Chris Hovan
19. St. Louis Jammal Brown OT Oklahoma
Comment: Rams allowed 50 sacks
20. DALLAS Mark Clayton WR Oklahoma
Comment: Best player on the board at this pick
21. Jacksonville Fabian Washington CB Nebraska
Comment: Needs someone to cover Marvin Harrison
22. Baltimore Alex Barron OT Florida State
Comment: Ravens like size and athleticism
23. Seattle Brodney Pool S Oklahoma
Comment: Best defender on the board at this pick
24. Green Bay Marlin Jackson CB Michigan
Comment: NFL's 25th-ranked pass defense needs help
25. Denver Marcus Johnson G Mississippi
Comment: Broncos need to replace Dan Neil
26. NY Jets Justin Miller CB Clemson
Comment: An elite returner to replace Santana Moss
27. Atlanta Matt Roth DE Iowa
Comment: You can never have enough pass rushers
28. San Diego Travis Johnson DT Florida State
Comment: True nose tackle for 3-4 scheme
29. Indianapolis Jonathan Babineaux DT Iowa
Comment: Best pass-rush tackle in the draft
30. Pittsburgh Heath Miller TE Virginia
Comment: Big body, big target for Ben Roethlisberger
31. Philadelphia Chris Spencer C Mississippi
Comment: Eagles continue stacking good players in queue
32. New England Odell Thurman MLB Georgia
Comment: Need to replace Tedy Bruschi

Woodrow Call
04-16-2005, 08:01 PM
Rick Gosselin's NFL mock draft (4/17)

:clap: He is one of the most accurate out there. I love it.

Chiefnj
04-16-2005, 08:11 PM
He's not as good as Taylor or Reed. Pollack was the heart and soul of the Dawgs. Plus, taking a project will only ensure that the Chiefs don't make the playoffs.

htismaqe
04-16-2005, 08:45 PM
He's not as good as Taylor or Reed. Pollack was the heart and soul of the Dawgs. Plus, taking a project will only ensure that the Chiefs don't make the playoffs.

Davis is not a project, he's a playmaker. He's the kind of player we're missing. Having zero guys like him is the reason we've been to the playoffs once since Vermeil got here...

the Talking Can
04-16-2005, 09:06 PM
chosing between Rogers and Davis...finally a choice CP can't **** up

htismaqe
04-16-2005, 09:08 PM
chosing between Rogers and Davis...finally a choice CP can't **** up

Rogers, Davis, and Pollack are all likely to be there at 15.

But alas, when it comes to the draft, Carl Peterson can **** ANYTHING up...

the Talking Can
04-16-2005, 09:10 PM
Rogers, Davis, and Pollack are all likely to be there at 15.

But alas, when it comes to the draft, Carl Peterson can **** ANYTHING up...

the only way CP can screw this up is by trading down if one of those 3 are available...I'm convinced all could end up starting for us this year....man, I am stoked for this draft..

htismaqe
04-16-2005, 09:13 PM
the only way CP can screw this up is by trading down if one of those 3 are available...I'm convinced all could end up starting for us this year....man, I am stoked for this draft..

I'm frickin pumped for this draft too.

I really want Davis, but it's REALLY hard for me to separate Davis from Rogers and Pollack. I want one of those 3.

booger
04-16-2005, 09:15 PM
One of the best comparisons to Pollack I have seen has been Tedy Bruschi. With him being short undersized and the short arms, I could really see this.

milkman
04-16-2005, 09:17 PM
the only way CP can screw this up is by trading down if one of those 3 are available...I'm convinced all could end up starting for us this year....man, I am stoked for this draft..

Hell, I'm convinced that all of our first day picks could start this year.
But I'm also convinced that our coacing staff sucks, and even when/if these guys show they should be starting, they won't.

beer bacon
04-16-2005, 09:18 PM
I'm frickin pumped for this draft too.

I really want Davis, but it's REALLY hard for me to separate Davis from Rogers and Pollack. I want one of those 3.

If we get Surtain in a trade I would rather have Davis, under one condition. That condition being that Gunther, not Carl or DV, Gunther, is completely satisfied that he will be fine at WSLB. With that said, I don't think we could go wrong with drafting any of those three.

Hell, I'm convinced that all of our first day picks could start this year.
But I'm also convinced that our coacing staff sucks, and even when/if these guys show they should be starting, they won't.

I think our coaching staff is more desperate this year.

shaneo69
04-16-2005, 09:23 PM
One of the best comparisons to Pollack I have seen has been Tedy Bruschi. With him being short undersized and the short arms, I could really see this.

I saw that comparison too. Bruschi played D-line in college. Is someone willing to take the time to convert Pollack to MLB in the pros?

the Talking Can
04-16-2005, 09:23 PM
If we get Surtain in a trade I would rather have Davis, under one condition. That condition being that Gunther, not Carl or DV, Gunther, is completely satisfied that he will be fine at WSLB. With that said, I don't think we could go wrong with drafting any of those three.



I think our coaching staff is more desperate this year.

I agree, they have to want him as WSLB...hell, he just might be the pefect compliment to Bell

shaneo69
04-16-2005, 09:25 PM
Rick Gosselin's NFL mock draft (4/17)

15. Kansas City Thomas Davis S Georgia
Comment: A Roy Williams clone

We should've just taken Roy Williams when we had the chance.

htismaqe
04-16-2005, 09:25 PM
One of the best comparisons to Pollack I have seen has been Tedy Bruschi. With him being short undersized and the short arms, I could really see this.

Pollack reminds me alot of Dwight Freeney. Amazing first step and great leverage. He uses his size to his advantage.

htismaqe
04-16-2005, 09:26 PM
If we get Surtain in a trade I would rather have Davis, under one condition. That condition being that Gunther, not Carl or DV, Gunther, is completely satisfied that he will be fine at WSLB. With that said, I don't think we could go wrong with drafting any of those three.

I think our coaching staff is more desperate this year.

Drafting Davis ABSOLUTELY HINGES on getting Surtain.

If we somehow **** it up and don't get Surtain, we have to get Rogers IMO.

htismaqe
04-16-2005, 09:27 PM
I agree, they have to want him as WSLB...hell, he just might be the pefect compliment to Bell

Yeah, I am in NO WAY advocating using Davis at safety.

My interest in him is strictly as a WSLB.

booger
04-16-2005, 09:30 PM
I saw that comparison too. Bruschi played D-line in college. Is someone willing to take the time to convert Pollack to MLB in the pros?

With a team that woudn't need him to start unlike us I would say yes. Probably as a nickel LB and Pass Rusher and move him to End if the MLB experiment doesn't work. He'd probably tear it up on special teams too.

booger
04-16-2005, 09:31 PM
Pollack reminds me alot of Dwight Freeney. Amazing first step and great leverage. He uses his size to his advantage.
Yeah somewhat, I could see it. Just not the explosion of DF.

nascher
04-16-2005, 09:55 PM
R1 Davis
R2 Patrick
R3 ......

And I am fine :)

Tribal Warfare
04-16-2005, 10:01 PM
Surtain for this years 4th and next years 2nd. Trade up to the #9 to #11 spot for DJ

Logical
04-16-2005, 11:09 PM
Surtain for this years 4th and next years 2nd. Trade up to the #9 to #11 spot for DJ


LOL you truly are obsessed, if there is a single person on this BB that does not know your position they are either dead or have been in a Coma for a month. Are you actually Voyager?

Logical
04-16-2005, 11:23 PM
Though I have voiced a desire for several others, the good thing about this year is there are many players I will be satisfied with and I could definately live with Davis be given a shot at OLB. It is going to be hard for Carl to make me dissappointed this year in the first round, yet if anyone is up to the challenge it is Carl.

beer bacon
04-16-2005, 11:26 PM
Though I have voiced a desire for several others, the good thing about this year is there are many players I will be satisfied with and I could definately live with Davis be given a shot at OLB. It is going to be hard for Carl to make me dissappointed this year in the first round, yet if anyone is up to the challenge it is Carl.

And with the #15 pick Kansas City drafts...Darren Sproles?

Tribal Warfare
04-17-2005, 12:32 AM
Are you actually Voyager?


Hell No! This year is very critical, because after this the core of this team will start dissipating, because of their age. It's time to grab the brass ring, and get quality

htismaqe
04-17-2005, 05:30 AM
Though I have voiced a desire for several others, the good thing about this year is there are many players I will be satisfied with and I could definately live with Davis be given a shot at OLB. It is going to be hard for Carl to make me dissappointed this year in the first round, yet if anyone is up to the challenge it is Carl.

I'm right there with ya, Jim.

:thumb:

the Talking Can
04-17-2005, 08:56 AM
It is going to be hard for Carl to make me dissappointed this year in the first round...

Please don't dare CP.

Mr. Kotter
04-17-2005, 03:51 PM
If we stay at 15....and Rolle, Rogers, Ware, and Merriam are all gone....I'm on-board. The only thing that bothers me about Davis, is he hasn't played LB for a while now.

I still see a trade down for Blackstock/Burnette/Crowder as a real possibility, given CP's past tendencies.

Dave Lane
04-17-2005, 04:13 PM
If we can trade down to 20-22 I'd take Davis if the big 3 CBs are gone at 15

Dave

htismaqe
04-17-2005, 05:10 PM
If we stay at 15....and Rolle, Rogers, Ware, and Merriam are all gone....I'm on-board. The only thing that bothers me about Davis, is he hasn't played LB for a while now.

I still see a trade down for Blackstock/Burnette/Crowder as a real possibility, given CP's past tendencies.

I have a problem with that.

If we trade down, I'd go after Roth or Marlin Jackson.

Blackstock is a guy I'd target in the 2nd and no earlier. He's a situational pass rusher, not a big need. I think he'll struggle in a 4-3 defense. Burnett is a good player, but I don't think he gives anything that we don't already have in Key Fox. And finally Crowder is a Mike, which really isn't a need at all.

htismaqe
04-17-2005, 05:12 PM
If we can trade down to 20-22 I'd take Davis if the big 3 CBs are gone at 15

Dave

Davis won't be there. If we don't pick him at 15, the Saints will at 16.

Count Alex's Losses
04-17-2005, 05:16 PM
Honestly I think it'd be really hard for the Chiefs to screw up this pick. Adam Schefter said there was a good chance 7 of the first 10 picks would go for offensive players.

Mr. Kotter
04-17-2005, 06:13 PM
I have a problem with that.

If we trade down, I'd go after Roth or Marlin Jackson.

Blackstock is a guy I'd target in the 2nd and no earlier. He's a situational pass rusher, not a big need. I think he'll struggle in a 4-3 defense. Burnett is a good player, but I don't think he gives anything that we don't already have in Key Fox. And finally Crowder is a Mike, which really isn't a need at all.

I think Crowder and Blackstock could both have good careers at OLB. That said, if we trade down...I'm thinkin' it will be at least 10 spots, which would make those guys decent values--especially if we pick up a second rounder with the trade down (which is what the chart suggests.)

I don't see any of those guys lasting into the 2nd, except maybe Burnette....and he'll go early second.

Mr. Kotter
04-17-2005, 06:39 PM
I think Crowder and Blackstock could both have good careers at OLB. That said, if we trade down...I'm thinkin' it will be at least 10 spots, which would make those guys decent values--especially if we pick up a second rounder with the trade down (which is what the chart suggests.)

I don't see any of those guys lasting into the 2nd, except maybe Burnette....and he'll go early second.

You know with that scenario, we'd get an additional 2nd rounder that we could ship to Miami for Surtain.... :hmmm:

Therefore, a first day of the draft scenario that adds....say Blackstock/Pollack/Roth in the late first, Browner/McFadden/Green with our pick in the second, then Surtain with the additional late second round pick that we pick up by moving down in the first. Then if we can snag Beck in the third....I gotta think we've improved our "D" substantially.

My choices: Pollack, McFadden, Surtain, and Beck. :thumb:

How's THAT for a first day??? :D

htismaqe
04-17-2005, 06:43 PM
I think Crowder and Blackstock could both have good careers at OLB. That said, if we trade down...I'm thinkin' it will be at least 10 spots, which would make those guys decent values--especially if we pick up a second rounder with the trade down (which is what the chart suggests.)

I don't see any of those guys lasting into the 2nd, except maybe Burnette....and he'll go early second.

I could see Crowder lasting to the 2nd.

And I'm not sure he's cut out to play OLB in a 4-3. Not sure how good he is in coverage...

Blackstock is a pass rush specialist. If he goes to a team that doesn't play a 3-4, I'm fairly confident he may disappear completely.

Mr. Kotter
04-17-2005, 06:51 PM
I could see Crowder lasting to the 2nd.

And I'm not sure he's cut out to play OLB in a 4-3. Not sure how good he is in coverage...

Blackstock is a pass rush specialist. If he goes to a team that doesn't play a 3-4, I'm fairly confident he may disappear completely.

I've seen some luke-warm reviews of Blackstock, but I've also seen some glowing ones--the glowing ones give me a woody. I think he has as good a shot at making the transition to a good OLB as Davis...of course, all of this is just speculation based on what I've read, I guess. Here's to hopin whoever we draft as our new OLB (we WILL draft one), that they aren't just another Gary Stills. :banghead:

htismaqe
04-17-2005, 07:05 PM
I've seen some luke-warm reviews of Blackstock, but I've also seen some glowing ones--the glowing ones give me a woody. I think he has as good a shot at making the transition to a good OLB as Davis...of course, all of this is just speculation based on what I've read, I guess. Here's to hopin whoever we draft as our new OLB (we WILL draft one), that they aren't just another Gary Stills. :banghead:

Davis and Blackstock are completely different players.

Davis played FS and SSLB but he's got a WSLB's body and skills. He's better in coverage, can still rush the passer, and can play the run. There's absolutely no chance of him being another Gary Stills, but he could be the next Larry Atkins...

Blackstock is a SSLB, and most likely a 3-4 SS rushbacker. He's not real good in coverage (in fact, I've never seen him cover a pass) and there's alot of questions about his ability to support the run. Gary Stills is the precise reason he scares me.

eazyb81
04-17-2005, 07:09 PM
Has anyone read anything that indicates that teams are considering Davis as an OLB? I'm not sure how many teams would be willing to take him in the 1st as a LB if he has played the last season at safety. This info from NFL.com indicates that most scouts view him as a safety in the pros:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/analysis/individual_workouts#uga

nascher
04-17-2005, 07:20 PM
I read somewhere 5 AFC Teams

CosmicPal
04-17-2005, 07:24 PM
My choices: Pollack, McFadden, Surtain, and Beck. :thumb:

How's THAT for a first day??? :D

I think that would be an absolutely splendid first day!

eazyb81
04-17-2005, 07:28 PM
Here is a cool article from ESPN.com on Davis and his chance at playing at WLB.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft05/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&page=s_ratings

Mr. Kotter
04-17-2005, 07:28 PM
I think that would be an absolutely splendid first day!

Thank you, thank you very much. :p

Mr. Kotter
04-17-2005, 07:33 PM
Davis and Blackstock are completely different players.

Davis played FS and SSLB but he's got a WSLB's body and skills. He's better in coverage, can still rush the passer, and can play the run. There's absolutely no chance of him being another Gary Stills, but he could be the next Larry Atkins...

Blackstock is a SSLB, and most likely a 3-4 SS rushbacker. He's not real good in coverage (in fact, I've never seen him cover a pass) and there's alot of questions about his ability to support the run. Gary Stills is the precise reason he scares me.

Thanks for your clarification...your position makes sense, given that :thumb:

Regardless, I don't want a repeat of either Parker or Stills....if Davis isn't a pretty "sure" thing at OLB, I'd pass on both he and Blackstock then.....and go with Burnette, or even Beck in the third.... I guess.

I'm really tired of this "tweener" stuff at safety/corner, DE/OLB....and I'm not ready to experiment with a "tweener" at S/OLB either. :shake:

Tribal Warfare
04-17-2005, 07:34 PM
doesn't always take good angles in pursuit


In another review they said he did, which he does often. Davis is a solid playerplayer

Mr. Kotter
04-17-2005, 07:39 PM
Here is a cool article from ESPN.com on Davis and his chance at playing at WLB.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft05/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&page=s_ratings

Thanks for the article eazy....

The question I have, will our perimeter players sufficiently FUNNEL things into the "box," where he is at his best...apparently. Right now, I'd say no. With Surtain, or another #1 CB....maybe. :hmmm:


Here's an excerpt for those too lazy to click:

Upside: Incredible, freaky size, and moves well for such a big man. Explosive tackler who hits with a naturally rising action and drives through in textbook fashion. Can really de-cleat a ball carrier or receiver and is always looking for the knockout hit. Will put the fear of God in anyone who crosses through his zone. Good lateral quickness and closing speed. Tough and nasty and plays with passion. Loves the game and competes hard on every snap.

Downside: Kind of an in-between player, and some teams still aren't sure whether he is a safety or a weak-side linebacker. A little tight in the hips and doesn't always take good angles in pursuit. Not a great change-of-direction defender. Does not show great range, even when sitting back in a zone, and can't play single coverages. At times, a flat-out liability in pass coverage. Not exactly a ballhawk.

The dish: Size-speed ratio is jaw-dropping, and his lights-out hitting style is compelling. He's a certain first-rounder, perhaps in the top half of the round, but the team that takes him is going to have to design things so that he plays in the box, where he should be a huge component in stopping the run

htismaqe
04-17-2005, 08:04 PM
Has anyone read anything that indicates that teams are considering Davis as an OLB? I'm not sure how many teams would be willing to take him in the 1st as a LB if he has played the last season at safety. This info from NFL.com indicates that most scouts view him as a safety in the pros:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/analysis/individual_workouts#uga

I've heard a couple of scouts say New Orleans is looking at him to play OLB.