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View Full Version : Vermeil on Surtain trade; "IT MAY BE OUT THE WINDOW"


Bootlegged
04-18-2005, 09:49 AM
Cornerback corners Chiefs

By ADAM TEICHER

The Kansas City Star


In a perfect world, the Chiefs would have their cornerback by now. They would have signed Samari Rolle, traded for Patrick Surtain or otherwise landed a veteran corner.

Then the Chiefs would be free to concentrate on this weekend's draft in that context.

But Rolle signed instead with Baltimore, Surtain is still property of the Miami Dolphins, and the Chiefs are still without a burning defensive need.

As the minutes tick off the clock without the Chiefs and Dolphins completing a trade involving Surtain, the closer the Chiefs get to having to deal with their cornerback issue in the draft. Maybe they use their first-round pick on a corner like Auburn's Carlos Rogers or perhaps their second-rounder on a player like Virginia Tech's Eric Green.

Their draft could go many ways. It all hinges on whether they pull off the trade for Surtain.

“It may be out the window,” coach Dick Vermeil said of the trade. “There's not much talk about it right now. We're just preparing to draft the best football players we can draft. We're doing it without consideration for what else may happen.”Free-agency began early last month with the Chiefs holding big plans for improving at cornerback. Rolle, who played for Chiefs defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham for three seasons in Tennessee, was among the first group of free-agent visitors.

If he fell through, the Chiefs wanted to meet with Ken Lucas and Fred Smoot. They had talked to the Dolphins about Surtain and were planning to meet with Ty Law.

The Chiefs started contract negotiations with Rolle and then backed off after learning of a spinal condition found during a routine physical exam. Lucas and Smoot signed with other teams before the Chiefs could bring them to Kansas City for a visit.

They met with Law, but his fractured foot was still mending, and with Kelly Herndon, but he signed with Seattle. The Chiefs appear to be getting nowhere in their trade talks with Miami.

So their cornerback search is more or less where it started. But the Chiefs are still determined to obtain a starter to pair with Eric Warfield. Dexter McCleon, for now at least, will be the nickel back.

“When we brought Dexter McCleon here, we really wanted him to be our nickel back and play inside because he's such a smart player,” Vermeil said. “That's what we'd like to do with him. We've got Eric Warfield. We've also got William Bartee and Julian Battle. So we already have good depth. But if we can add a high-quality player to that, either a free agent or a first-round pick, it's going to help.”

The Chiefs are almost certain to draft a cornerback in the first couple of rounds if they don't reach an agreement with the Dolphins on Surtain. If they do make the trade, it's much less of a sure thing.

If they get Surtain and then a cornerback on the first day of the draft, suddenly a weakness become a strength. Surtain would join Warfield in the starting lineup, McCleon is the nickel back, the rookie is the fourth corner, and either Bartee or Battle, or possibly both, is out of a job.

“If we sign a corner, that may not necessarily stop us from drafting a great corner if he's sitting there,” Vermeil said. “And we don't know who's going to be sitting there. I can't see why we'd alter the way we rank players and grade players based on having signed a free-agent corner. We've got to go about our business.”

The trouble with trading for Surtain is that he will cost the Chiefs a draft pick. The Dolphins are asking for a second-round selection.

If the Chiefs meet that price — which they've indicated they won't — they won't pick between the middle of the first round and the end of the third. That's a long time to wait for a team that has other positions it would like to address.

Foremost among them are linebacker, where the Chiefs have a severe shortage of healthy bodies, and wide receiver, where starters Eddie Kennison and Johnnie Morton are over 30.

Because of their inability to acquire a cornerback by now, the Chiefs might not be able to satisfy every position on their wish list in this draft.

Mile High Mania
04-18-2005, 09:51 AM
Likely just a smoke screen...

Mr. Kotter
04-18-2005, 09:51 AM
:shake:

:banghead:

Mr. Kotter
04-18-2005, 09:52 AM
Likely just a smoke screen...

I sure hope so....but as a Chief's fan, it wouldn't surprise me if DV is right....

Mark M
04-18-2005, 09:52 AM
I still don't see why KC won't trade the 2nd, or package a pick this year and next for Surtain.

Make the trade for Surtain, trade down to pick up the pick they lose, and get going already.

MM
~~:cuss:

HC_Chief
04-18-2005, 09:55 AM
I'm banking on them f*cking up the whole deal. These jaggoffs have made me a pessimist.

Wile_E_Coyote
04-18-2005, 09:55 AM
By ADAM TEICHER

Phobia
04-18-2005, 09:57 AM
By ADAM TEICHER

DV said.

Anything appearing in print between last week and next Sunday won't be worth the paper it appears on. If you've followed football for more than 2 years, you should know that. ;)

ChiefsCountry
04-18-2005, 09:58 AM
Smoke screen

Stinger
04-18-2005, 09:59 AM
I'm banking on them f*cking up the whole deal. These jaggoffs have made me a pessimist.

That is my mind set going into the draft that way if they do pull it off I will be pleasently surprized, but if they don't I won't be that surprized or outraged. :harumph:

HC_Chief
04-18-2005, 10:00 AM
Smoke screen

Smoke screen for what? Seriously - what leads you to believe the current braintrust has any clue as to obtaining/drafting playmakers? In the past ten years they've had how many? Priest, Trent Green, Tony Gonzalez and ??

eazyb81
04-18-2005, 10:02 AM
Wasn't it just a month ago that Carl Peterson blamed the media on losing Samari Rolle? Didn't he vow to keep the media in the dark on future deals from now on?

I'm surprised how quickly people forget key details...

The deal will get done, you don't work out full contract details unless you are planning on getting the deal done. They are just trying to keep everyone guessing on what they will do, but I guarantee Surtain will be wearing red and gold by this Sunday.

HemiEd
04-18-2005, 10:06 AM
DV said.

Anything appearing in print between last week and next Sunday won't be worth the paper it appears on. If you've followed football for more than 2 years, you should know that. ;)


Exactly! :thumb:

Edubs
04-18-2005, 10:06 AM
poop

ChiefsCountry
04-18-2005, 10:07 AM
Smoke screen for what? Seriously - what leads you to believe the current braintrust has any clue as to obtaining/drafting playmakers? In the past ten years thay've had how many? Priest, Trent Green, Tony Gonzalez and ??

They are just putting on there poker face, they did when they got Green. There will be so much BS going on this week it will be pathetic.

HC_Chief
04-18-2005, 10:08 AM
Poker face?
Heh, I'd LOVE to play poker with this group of morons... I'd be rich. :D

TEX
04-18-2005, 10:10 AM
I still don't see why KC won't trade the 2nd, or package a pick this year and next for Surtain.

Make the trade for Surtain, trade down to pick up the pick they lose, and get going already.

MM
~~:cuss:

EXACTLY! Everyone wins. Just do it and MOVE ON! :shake:

HC_Chief
04-18-2005, 10:12 AM
EXACTLY! Everyone wins. Just do it and MOVE ON! :shake:

No! We cannot give up that #2. We would miss out on our next Eddie Freeman/Junior Siavii/Rashaan Sheehee/Mike Cloud/...

Mr. Kotter
04-18-2005, 10:12 AM
DV said.

Anything appearing in print between last week and next Sunday won't be worth the paper it appears on. If you've followed football for more than 2 years, you should know that. ;)

Of course we know that; but why doesn't DV just S.T.F.U? :rolleyes:

What real purpose does a comment like this serve? None. "Posturing"....yeah, whatever.

Iowanian
04-18-2005, 10:15 AM
If Vermeil or Carl use the words "good depth or Solid Corner" in regards to Bartee or Battle, again, when not talking about their replacements on roster...........I may be forced to drive to KC.


This is posturing to get Miami's price down..........

Bootlegged
04-18-2005, 10:15 AM
I for one will be shocked if we trade for Surtain. I don't think CP has it in him. My guess is that the following plays out...

1.) Jets or someone else ponies up the 2nd rounder and trades for Surtain.

2.) We draft Carolos Rogers at #15, and reach for some crap WR in the 2nd. We draft another small school player in the 3rd, probably a hybrid S/CB

3.) After June 1, we sign an aging, mediocre corner.

Opening day secondary
1) Warfield
2) Knight
3) Wesley
4) McCleon/June 1 CB

HC_Chief
04-18-2005, 10:18 AM
Even if we obtain Surtain (which, I'm not counting on), I'd hope we would still draft Rogers if he were available. That kid is going to be a stud NFL corner.

jcroft
04-18-2005, 10:21 AM
If this is a smokescreen at all (and I'm not sure about that yet), it would probably mean that we do not intend to draft a corner. It would mean that they want other teams to believe we are going to take their corner, but we really plan to draft a LB or other position. The reason we plan to draft another position may be that they believe they've got Surtain in the bag, but it also may not be that.

Garcia Bronco
04-18-2005, 10:24 AM
If you guys drafted Eric Green I'd be pissed.

Iowanian
04-18-2005, 10:25 AM
He wasn't even a very good Tight End 10 years ago Garcia.............

Bootlegged
04-18-2005, 10:28 AM
He wasn't even a very good Tight End 10 years ago Garcia.............


BUT, he was a bad mama jama while at LIBERTY.

TEX
04-18-2005, 10:28 AM
I for one will be shocked if we trade for Surtain. I don't think CP has it in him. My guess is that the following plays out...

1.) Jets or someone else ponies up the 2nd rounder and trades for Surtain.

2.) We draft Carolos Rogers at #15, and reach for some crap WR in the 2nd. We draft another small school player in the 3rd, probably a hybrid S/CB

3.) After June 1, we sign an aging, mediocre corner.

Opening day secondary
1) Warfield
2) Knight
3) Wesley
4) McCleon/June 1 CB


Unfortunately you're probably right... :cuss:

TEX
04-18-2005, 10:32 AM
Even if we obtain Surtain (which, I'm not counting on), I'd hope we would still draft Rogers if he were available. That kid is going to be a stud NFL corner.


Really, what makes you think so? I'm hoping you have an opinion to sway mine. He was mostly used in zone coverages in college. From what I've seen of him, I don't think he's all that in terms of his one-on-one coverage skills. Who knows, you might be right? :hmmm:

eazyb81
04-18-2005, 10:37 AM
Really, what makes you think so? I'm hoping you have an opinion to sway mine. He was mostly used in zone coverages in college. From what I've seen of him, I don't think he's all that in terms of his one-on-one coverage skills. Who knows, you might be right? :hmmm:

Are we talking about the same Carlos Rogers? Rogers never played zone in college, Auburn uses man to man schemes. Rogers is a physical CB that excels in man coverage, the exact type of CB Gun loves. He would be an awesome addition to our secondary.

Mr. Laz
04-18-2005, 10:37 AM
The deal will get done, you don't work out full contract details unless you are planning on getting the deal done. They are just trying to keep everyone guessing on what they will do, but I guarantee Surtain will be wearing red and gold by this Sunday.
carl just said the other day that they HAVEN'T worked out full contract details.

that said, i don't think Vermeil has the first clue about what stage the surtain negotiations are in.

htismaqe
04-18-2005, 10:37 AM
1) This is not a smokescreen.

2) This does not mean the Surtain deal is dead.

I'm firmly convinced Vermeil has NO CLUE what the **** is going on. He said some similar things right before we signed Bell. The guy just doesn't know how to keep his mouth shut.

Mr. Laz
04-18-2005, 10:39 AM
1) This is not a smokescreen.

2) This does not mean the Surtain deal is dead.

I'm firmly convinced Vermeil has NO CLUE what the **** is going on. He said some similar things right before we signed Bell. The guy just doesn't know how to keep his mouth shut.

copycat bastige... get your own take


carl just said the other day that they HAVEN'T worked out full contract details.

that said, i don't think Vermeil has the first clue about what stage the surtain negotiations are in.










:p

Count Alex's Wins
04-18-2005, 10:39 AM
1) This is not a smokescreen.

2) This does not mean the Surtain deal is dead.

I'm firmly convinced Vermeil has NO CLUE what the **** is going on. He said some similar things right before we signed Bell. The guy just doesn't know how to keep his mouth shut.

He's a press whore.

htismaqe
04-18-2005, 10:42 AM
carl just said the other day that they HAVEN'T worked out full contract details.

that said, i don't think Vermeil has the first clue about what stage the surtain negotiations are in.

Yet again we agree. :D :thumb:

eazyb81
04-18-2005, 10:44 AM
carl just said the other day that they HAVEN'T worked out full contract details.

that said, i don't think Vermeil has the first clue about what stage the surtain negotiations are in.
Like I said earlier, CP blamed the media for losing out on Rolle and vowed to keep the media in the dark during the rest of the offseason. I think he is lying about not having a deal done w/ Surtain, it seems a little odd to me that other people have reported it but he completely denies it. I believe that CP doesn't want to risk losing Surtain and looking like a moron, so he wants to act like nothing is going on, and then surprise everyone with a trade for Surtain.

Just like every other team, the Chiefs are trying to keep everyone guessing on what they will do. But I firmly believe that we will trade for Surtain by this weekend. In fact, I guarantee it will happen.

Mr. Laz
04-18-2005, 10:44 AM
He's a press whore.
a press whore AND completely full of chit


I'm still trying to figure out whether it's incompetence or full blown liar though. :hmmm:

TEX
04-18-2005, 10:46 AM
Are we talking about the same Carlos Rogers? Rogers never played zone in college, Auburn uses man to man schemes. Rogers is a physical CB that excels in man coverage, the exact type of CB Gun loves. He would be an awesome addition to our secondary.

Yes we're talking about the same Rogers. And yes he did play zone most of the time in college. Auburn uses man to man schemes from time to time like any defense, and most of the time, Rogers didn't play it as well as he did zone. The tape doesn't lie. I agree that he has the size and toughness, but not the blazing speed. He might be taught to play man-on-man better, but he's not a "shut down" corner type. The coverage skills between he and Roll are huge at this point. But who knows, he might be turn out to great. I was only saying that from what I've seen, he's better in zone coverage than he is one-on-one. :hmmm:

Mr. Kotter
04-18-2005, 10:47 AM
a press whore AND completely full of chit


I'm still trying to figure out whether it's incompetence or full blown liar though. :hmmm:

I don't think it's either; it just goes back to his Broadcasting days....talkin' to hear yourself talk, because other people are askin' questions...Dick, S.T.F.U. :banghead:

Warrior5
04-18-2005, 10:50 AM
But I firmly believe that we will trade for Surtain by this weekend. In fact, I guarantee it will happen.

Props to you for going out on a limb, and hope you're right.

Your credibility will take a major hit if it doesn't happen. If it does, I'll rep you every day for a month.


...very generous with cyber-chits.

HipHopper4Life
04-18-2005, 10:53 AM
Are we talking about the same Carlos Rogers? Rogers never played zone in college, Auburn uses man to man schemes. Rogers is a physical CB that excels in man coverage, the exact type of CB Gun loves. He would be an awesome addition to our secondary.


Actually, Auburn plays their corners in zone 90 percent of the time. They play man off once in awhile but no press coverage at all.

jcroft
04-18-2005, 10:54 AM
1) This is not a smokescreen.

2) This does not mean the Surtain deal is dead.

I'm firmly convinced Vermeil has NO CLUE what the **** is going on.


I hope you're right. :)

eazyb81
04-18-2005, 10:54 AM
Yes we're talking about the same Rogers. And yes he did play zone most of the time in college. Auburn uses man to man schemes from time to time like any defense, and most of the time, Rogers didn't play it as well as he did zone. The tape doesn't lie. I agree that he has the size and toughness, but not the blazing speed. He might be taught to play man-on-man better, but he's not a "shut down" corner type. The coverage skills between he and Roll are huge at this point. But who knows, he might be turn out to great. I was only saying that from what I've seen, he's better in zone coverage than he is one-on-one. :hmmm:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2005/rogers_carlos


"...Played mostly in man coverage in 2004 and had good success there, but still does not show a good feel to anticipate routes and is late on his turn when he peeks into the backfield too long … Has the speed to run with the receivers..."

eazyb81
04-18-2005, 10:55 AM
Props to you for going out on a limb, and hope you're right.

Your credibility will take a major hit if it doesn't happen. If it does, I'll rep you every day for a month.


...very generous with cyber-chits.

Mark it down, put it in your sig, whatever. I truly believe that Surtain will be a Chief by the end of this weekend, and I am a cynical Chiefs fan.

Mr. Laz
04-18-2005, 11:01 AM
I don't think it's either; it just goes back to his Broadcasting days....talkin' to hear yourself talk, because other people are askin' questions...Dick, S.T.F.U. :banghead:
that could be it too ROFL ROFL

The Bad Guy
04-18-2005, 11:07 AM
If this trade is out the window, then I hope Carl and Dick jump out right behind it.

Brock
04-18-2005, 11:09 AM
I don't understand why anyone thinks any NFL coach or GM is going to speak the truth at this time of year. How can you tell they're lying? Their lips are moving.

htismaqe
04-18-2005, 11:11 AM
If this trade is out the window, then I hope Carl and Dick jump out right behind it.

I wholeheartedly agree.

ROYC75
04-18-2005, 11:13 AM
I sence a smoke screen, but that's just me.

CosmicPal
04-18-2005, 11:19 AM
1) This is not a smokescreen.

2) This does not mean the Surtain deal is dead.



I totally agree. The Chiefs staff are doing what they are supposed to be doing right now: Preparing for the draft. All of their time should be commited to fielding the best draft possible. Once they are comfortable with their field, they can then start up the negotiations with Miami as the draft nears. Everyone in the NFL knows KC and Miami are working a deal. Miami is wanting to trade down in the draft with Minnesota, and if they do just that- KC will not have to give up this year's 2nd rounder, and instead give up a 4th rounder as originally desired.

Even if they didn't get Surtain- all is not lost. Law is still out there and they have plenty of draft picks to get a few DB's out of it....

brent102fire
04-18-2005, 11:27 AM
“When we brought Dexter McCleon here, we really wanted him to be our nickel back and play inside because he's such a smart player,” Vermeil said. “That's what we'd like to do with him. We've got Eric Warfield. We've also got William Bartee and Julian Battle. So we already have good depth. But if we can add a high-quality player to that, either a free agent or a first-round pick, it's going to help.”

DV has lost his mind...Bartee is good depth? That guy should not even be on the team anymore.

Sure-Oz
04-18-2005, 11:32 AM
I'll wait until draft day to see.

TRR
04-18-2005, 11:46 AM
I think both sides are playing hard to get right now. Look at the deal for Welbourn last draft. Nobody even knew KC was interested. Look at the Green trade where everybody thought the deal was dead, and then boom.

We have a lot more options than Miami does. We can trade for Surtain, sign Ty Law, or draft a pretty good CB prospect with the #15 pick. Miami can either eat his salary and surely lose him after this season, or trade him and get decent value.

TEX
04-18-2005, 12:00 PM
I think both sides are playing hard to get right now. Look at the deal for Welbourn last draft. Nobody even knew KC was interested. Look at the Green trade where everybody thought the deal was dead, and then boom.

We have a lot more options than Miami does. We can trade for Surtain, sign Ty Law, or draft a pretty good CB prospect with the #15 pick. Miami can either eat his salary and surely lose him after this season, or trade him and get decent value.

Yep, but our options are running out via free agency. I suspect that some other team, like the Jets, might swoop in and acquire Surtain. We'll see. IMO, Law is NOT an option.

Mark M
04-18-2005, 12:01 PM
... He might be taught to play man-on-man better ...

And monkeys may fly out of my ass.

Apparently, you're not familiar with KC's secondary coach, Peter "I-give-great-blowjobs-so-I-still-have-a-job" Giunta.

He may be able to learn it, but it sure as hell ain't gonna happen in KC.

MM
~~:banghead:

irishjayhawk
04-18-2005, 12:03 PM
“When we brought Dexter McCleon here, we really wanted him to be our nickel back and play inside because he's such a smart player,” Vermeil said. “That's what we'd like to do with him. We've got Eric Warfield. We've also got William Bartee and Julian Battle. So we already have good depth. But if we can add a high-quality player to that, either a free agent or a first-round pick, it's going to help.”

DV has lost his mind...Bartee is good depth? That guy should not even be on the team anymore.
Thats exactly what i thought. I thought someone would have mentioned it WAY before now.

I am pretty pessimistic about this trade. Like it was said above, please, if its out the window, jump behind it.

Ralphy Boy
04-18-2005, 01:00 PM
I seem to recall getting laughed off the board a couple of months ago for saying we should trade a couple of our later round picks for Samari Rolle & Kevin Carter when everyone else said "why give up a pick for them when you can get them as free agents". My answer then was the same as now, because you'd have gotten them for sure without having to compete for their services and wouldn't have had to pay a high signing bonus to get them, nor would you have had to waste a high pick to get them.

Everyone knew they were going to be released for more than a month prior to it happening and nobody did anything, so we aren't alone, every other team could have done the same thing. However what almost every one of those teams did do was step up to the plate and pay the FA money to get a player.

Either way here we are right before the draft still without a corner hoping that we will give up our second round pick for a CB whose not as good as a guy we quite possibly could have had for a 5th rounder.

Don't think they would have traded either of them for the 5th? They traded Carlos Hall for a "undisclosed pick", don't you think they would have rather gotten something, for better players, than the nothing they got? Hall didn't cost them squat against their cap and they still traded him away. Anyone care to argue that Hall is better than Carter?

Our front office conducts half of their business like a handyman working out of their truck and has no ability or apparent desire to forecast events with other teams or project our own needs and thats why we will be sitting on our asses come January 2006.

You can be a great handyman, but working from job to job or deal to deal isn't going to get you anywhere, other than "by". I was impressed with the Bell signing as well as the Knight pickup, but it's like unless someone calls CP and tells him "we want to trade xxx player, do you want to trade?" he just doesn't think about calling and feeling things out himself.

ChiefsCountry
04-18-2005, 01:09 PM
“When we brought Dexter McCleon here, we really wanted him to be our nickel back and play inside because he's such a smart player,” Vermeil said. “That's what we'd like to do with him. We've got Eric Warfield. We've also got William Bartee and Julian Battle. So we already have good depth. But if we can add a high-quality player to that, either a free agent or a first-round pick, it's going to help.”

DV has lost his mind...Bartee is good depth? That guy should not even be on the team anymore.

For Special teams and depth in an emergency yes, Bartee is good for that. Not starting, not being the nickel back, or the dime back. Special teams he is good for.

htismaqe
04-18-2005, 01:11 PM
My answer then was the same as now, because you'd have gotten them for sure without having to compete for their services and wouldn't have had to pay a high signing bonus to get them, nor would you have had to waste a high pick to get them.

Sorry, but trading for them DOES NOT mean you won't have to give them a big signing bonus.

Negotiating compensation with a team does not equal negotiating compensation with a player.

That would be like saying the following:

If we give Miami a 2nd-round draft pick, we will give Surtain a $15M signing bonus but if we give them a 4th-rounder, we'll only give him $7.5M because he was only worth half as much to the Dolphins.

Sorry, but it doesn't work that way.

Ralphy Boy
04-18-2005, 02:25 PM
Sorry, but trading for them DOES NOT mean you won't have to give them a big signing bonus.

Negotiating compensation with a team does not equal negotiating compensation with a player.

That would be like saying the following:

If we give Miami a 2nd-round draft pick, we will give Surtain a $15M signing bonus but if we give them a 4th-rounder, we'll only give him $7.5M because he was only worth half as much to the Dolphins.

Sorry, but it doesn't work that way.

That is exactly what it means, you don't HAVE to give them a new contract. He could play one year on a high salary and if all you've given up is a 5th, and the guy helped get you to a Superbowl, then it's money well spent even if he's gone the next year.

Granted for cap reasons you'd probably want to pay him a signing bonus, but given Lamar's recent reluctancy to give a big bonus, it could be avoided.

htismaqe
04-18-2005, 02:37 PM
That is exactly what it means, you don't HAVE to give them a new contract. He could play one year on a high salary and if all you've given up is a 5th, and the guy helped get you to a Superbowl, then it's money well spent even if he's gone the next year.

Granted for cap reasons you'd probably want to pay him a signing bonus, but given Lamar's recent reluctancy to give a big bonus, it could be avoided.

You're going to trade for a guy that's going to get cut and then NOT give him a new contract?

Have fun watching him sit out.

That's absolutely moronic, dude.

FringeNC
04-18-2005, 02:51 PM
So, if we do get Surtain, who's gonna blink? CP or Saban?

eazyb81
04-18-2005, 02:54 PM
So, if we do get Surtain, who's gonna blink? CP or Saban?
I think CP will end up giving up the 2nd round pick Miami is looking for. I don't think he was serious about the 4th round pick, he was just using that as a starting point for negotiations. A 2nd round pick for a top 5 CB is well worth it in my opinion, and i'm sure CP feels the same way.

If CP is able to get Surtain for a 5th this year and a 2nd next year, it will be highway robbery.

crossbow
04-18-2005, 03:25 PM
It's Vermiel's way of discouraging the fishing expeditions reporters try on coaches to get info they aren't supposed to have. Since Peterson's staff has been instructed not to comment on trade negosiations, he may be telling the press that it is a dead deal so they will give up on it and talk about the Chiefs great draft history in 2nd rounds or some other fascinating topic.

Mr. Laz
04-18-2005, 03:30 PM
It's Vermiel's way of discouraging the fishing expeditions reporters try on coaches to get info they aren't supposed to have. Since Peterson's staff has been instructed not to comment on trade negosiations, he may be telling the press that it is a dead deal so they will give up on it and talk about the Chiefs great draft history in 2nd rounds or some other fascinating topic.
you give vermeil way too much credit


this is the guy who can't seem to keep his mouth shut about anything


why this time?

Mr. Laz
04-18-2005, 03:33 PM
That is exactly what it means, you don't HAVE to give them a new contract.

you right, IF the whole reason for the guy getting traded wasn't a new contract in the first place.

with surtain it is ... you don't trade for him unless your planning on working out a new deal.

crossbow
04-18-2005, 03:41 PM
you give vermeil way too much credit


this is the guy who can't seem to keep his mouth shut about anything


why this time?

Becuase loose lips already cost them one targeted coner. I gotta at least hope they can learn from the Rolle fiasco.

Calcountry
04-18-2005, 04:06 PM
I sure hope so....but as a Chief's fan, it wouldn't surprise me if DV is right....Yep, DV never lies.

eazyb81
04-18-2005, 04:09 PM
Yep, DV never lies.

ROFL

ChiefsCountry
04-18-2005, 04:10 PM
A 2nd round pick for a top 5 CB is well worth it in my opinion, and i'm sure CP feels the same way.

That is debatable. I mean TO got traded for a 2nd rounder. I still think a 4th and 3rd next year could get Surtain.

beer bacon
04-18-2005, 04:11 PM
That is debatable. I mean TO got traded for a 2nd rounder. I still think a 4th and 3rd next year could get Surtain.

TO getting traded for 2nd != Surtain is not worth a 2nd.

Bwana
04-18-2005, 04:12 PM
If Vermeil or Carl use the words "good depth or Solid Corner" in regards to Bartee or Battle, again, when not talking about their replacements on roster...........I may be forced to drive to KC.


This is posturing to get Miami's price down..........

You and I both. :hmmm:

ChiefsCountry
04-18-2005, 04:16 PM
TO getting traded for 2nd != Surtain is not worth a 2nd.

Thats my point.

Mr. Laz
04-18-2005, 04:23 PM
Becuase loose lips already cost them one targeted coner. I gotta at least hope they can learn from the Rolle fiasco.
i can't figure out with is funnier

you believe that the chiefs actually learn from their mistakes


or


that you actually believe carl's bullchit that "the media cost the chiefs a chance to sign Rolle"



the chiefs unwillingness to pay Rolle the money he wanted cost the chiefs ... nothing else, sure as hell not the media.

Wile_E_Coyote
04-18-2005, 04:24 PM
as long as DV has not picked him up at the airport, there is a chance

The Bad Guy
04-18-2005, 04:41 PM
Thats my point.

You're comparing apples and oranges.

The TO situation was because of his own paperwork problem and he whined and bitched to the league and they forced the 49ers, Eagles, Ravens to figure something out in terms of compensation.

Surtain is property of the Dolphins - he was never going to be a FA.

TO was worth a 2nd rounder to the 49ers because he already talked his way off the team. They didn't expect to get anything for him, and then the paperwork mishap happened, and they took the 2nd rounder from the Ravens - which didn't matter anyway because he ended up going basically for Brandon Whiting and a 5th round draft pick.

Comparing the 2 situations is ridiculous because there are too many other variables involved in the TO mess.

The Bad Guy
04-18-2005, 04:43 PM
i can't figure out with is funnier

you believe that the chiefs actually learn from their mistakes


or


that you actually believe carl's bullchit that "the media cost the chiefs a chance to sign Rolle"



the chiefs unwillingness to pay Rolle the money he wanted cost the chiefs ... nothing else, sure as hell not the media.

Carl's pussy-footing cost us a chance to get Rolle. He had a friggen week to negotiate EXCLUSIVELY with him and he couldn't get it done because he wanted to be the tough POS negotiator and use any angle to get Rolle to lower his price tag.

I don't want to hear about his neck problem either because the Ravens, a team that absolutely knows great defensive players, signs him within 5 hours of his arrival.

The Chiefs will never learn from their mistakes. They never learned that you can't take a safety and convert him to corner and have him turn into a star..it took Priest Holmes to teach them that fullbacks aren't half backs...It's taken them 4 friggen years to realize that the players they thought were good on defense sucks.

NaptownChief
04-18-2005, 04:45 PM
Calling Bartee good depth should only be stated if his boss was manging a car wash and not coaching a football team.

crossbow
04-18-2005, 06:13 PM
i can't figure out with is funnier

you believe that the chiefs actually learn from their mistakes


or


that you actually believe carl's bullchit that "the media cost the chiefs a chance to sign Rolle"



the chiefs unwillingness to pay Rolle the money he wanted cost the chiefs ... nothing else, sure as hell not the media.

I didn't say I believed his bull, but he DID use the media excuse and he DID tell his staff not to talk about deals. Since DV works for him he would have to avoid talking about negotiations. And yes I do believe they can adjust for the short term to their stupid moves. Long term is a different story because they won't change their basic philosophy which in my opinion is flawed. If they would set out to draft the best football players these last few years instead of getting cute and trying to look smart by converting players then they wouldn't be desperate to sign other teams' good players to make up for the bad decissions they have made.

TEX
04-18-2005, 07:08 PM
I didn't say I believed his bull, but he DID use the media excuse and he DID tell his staff not to talk about deals. Since DV works for him he would have to avoid talking about negotiations. And yes I do believe they can adjust for the short term to their stupid moves. Long term is a different story because they won't change their basic philosophy which in my opinion is flawed. If they would set out to draft the best football players these last few years instead of getting cute and trying to look smart by converting players then they wouldn't be desperate to sign other teams' good players to make up for the bad decissions they have made.

The WORST mistake the Chiefs (Carl) made was re-signing all their crappy _efensive free agents last year. When you combine that with thier stupid draft philosophy of late it spells DISASTER on _efense - which is the situation we currently find ourselves in. :shake:

keg in kc
04-18-2005, 07:12 PM
I'm not putting any stock in anything I hear out of Arrowhead this week. Including tonight's draft preview show. We have this thing for playing games through the media...

TEX
04-18-2005, 07:12 PM
Carl's pussy-footing cost us a chance to get Rolle. He had a friggen week to negotiate EXCLUSIVELY with him and he couldn't get it done because he wanted to be the tough POS negotiator and use any angle to get Rolle to lower his price tag.

I don't want to hear about his neck problem either because the Ravens, a team that absolutely knows great defensive players, signs him within 5 hours of his arrival.

The Chiefs will never learn from their mistakes. They never learned that you can't take a safety and convert him to corner and have him turn into a star..it took Priest Holmes to teach them that fullbacks aren't half backs...It's taken them 4 friggen years to realize that the players they thought were good on defense sucks.

Yep. They lucked out converting Dale Carter to an NFL CB but he was blessed with blazing SPEED. They keep trying to duplicate that success and it's cost them dearly. What's so funny is that all the converted safeties must not be worth a $hit at Safety or they wouldn't have had to sign Knight. When you look at it that way, it's double disasterous. :shake:

CoMoChief
04-18-2005, 07:13 PM
Regardless of what the papers said about Rolle and his spinal condition, theres no way that the media was at fault for Rolle's departure. CP probably was stiff dicking him and so when Baltimore called him up, with that defense and with them being so far under the cap this year, he opted to go there. Look for Baltimore to make some noise this year. I swear to God we better pick up Surtain, Carl better not f*ck this up.