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View Full Version : KC-Philly make sense ?


nomad
04-19-2005, 12:57 AM
Think about it. It's been mentioned elsewhere, lets break it down..

Chiefs can move the 15 and 46 picks to the Eagles for their 31,35 and 63 picks. The total pick point value slightly favors the Eagles

KC then can flip the #63 to the Fins for Surtain.

At 31 and 35 KC can still pick 2 of LB's Burnett, Blackstock, Crowder, Rudd, and CB's Jackson, Webster, Green.

Why would Philly do it? Andy Reid has made draft day trades 5 of the past 6 years. They have tons of picks (13). They have a solid roster of talent and could be target specific players that won't be available at 31.

I'm thinking that they are looking hard at available WR's.

Reid is sick and tired of Freddie Mitchell, TO has become a pain in the ass wanting a new contract and ripping McNabb. He's probably dying to get a shot at WR's like Mark Clayton or Troy Williamson who have been projected to be available at 15 but not necessarily at 31.

Another possibility is Freddie Mitchell to KC since he is an former UCLA grad. Both Vermeil and Peterson have UCLA roots. KC gives up a 4th or 5th and they have their young deep threat at WR.

This would give KC:

Surtain - CB
Mitchell - WR
Burnett/Blackstock/Rudd at LB
Jackson/Green/McFadden at CB

Picks in 5-7 can be used for depth on the OL, or a stab at a QB project for the new QB coach to develop.

Too creative for Carl ?
Not good enough for Philly?

Thoughts?

el borracho
04-19-2005, 01:04 AM
Thoughts?
A) Freddie Mitchell sucks
B) I would be ubersurprised if the Chiefs made multiple trades on draft day.

Logical
04-19-2005, 01:13 AM
I pray to God this scenario does not play out. Take our pick at 15, trade our second pick for Surtain, draft best defensive athlete available in 3rd and 4th (as long as they are not safeties).

nomad
04-19-2005, 01:14 AM
Remove Mitchell if you like.

Reid would have to hold Carl's hand to help him thru it though.

I do like the end result though even without Mitchell.

nomad
04-19-2005, 01:23 AM
I pray to God this scenario does not play out. Take our pick at 15, trade our second pick for Surtain, draft best defensive athlete available in 3rd and 4th (as long as they are not safeties).


I don't know if Burnett/Blackstock or Jackson/Green will be available at pick #99. These are good prospects...

So... You feel whoever is available at #15 would be of greater value than 2 of the 4 players who would possibly be chosen at 31 and 35?

This defense needs players, and Carls odds of getting 1 real good player with two picks is greater.

Gravedigger
04-19-2005, 01:32 AM
It wouldn't be a bad thing but yeah the whole freddie mitchell thing F dat! I'd rather trade up but with two picks right in a row and the other second goes to surtain I think it would be good to have two picks that close to each other. But like I said I'd rather trade up get johnson and then get surtain for our second.

Miles
04-19-2005, 01:32 AM
This defense needs players, and Carls odds of getting 1 real good player with two picks is greater.

But the difference in the chances of player at #15 being good are also higher than second rounders. I’m of the opinion that we need quality players that will have a more likelihood of contributing next season over depth/quantity. Though i wouldn’t be too annoyed if we moved down in this manner but id be really worried about it opening up the possibility of us drafting some random ass project with the second rounders.

Mr. Kotter
04-19-2005, 07:58 AM
Think about it. It's been mentioned elsewhere, lets break it down..

Chiefs can move the 15 and 46 picks to the Eagles for their 31,35 and 63 picks. The total pick point value slightly favors the Eagles

KC then can flip the #63 to the Fins for Surtain.

At 31 and 35 KC can still pick 2 of LB's Burnett, Blackstock, Crowder, Rudd, and CB's Jackson, Webster, Green.

Why would Philly do it? Andy Reid has made draft day trades 5 of the past 6 years. They have tons of picks (13). They have a solid roster of talent and could be target specific players that won't be available at 31.

I'm thinking that they are looking hard at available WR's.

Reid is sick and tired of Freddie Mitchell, TO has become a pain in the ass wanting a new contract and ripping McNabb. He's probably dying to get a shot at WR's like Mark Clayton or Troy Williamson who have been projected to be available at 15 but not necessarily at 31.

Another possibility is Freddie Mitchell to KC since he is an former UCLA grad. Both Vermeil and Peterson have UCLA roots. KC gives up a 4th or 5th and they have their young deep threat at WR.

This would give KC:

Surtain - CB
Mitchell - WR
Burnett/Blackstock/Rudd at LB
Jackson/Green/McFadden at CB

Picks in 5-7 can be used for depth on the OL, or a stab at a QB project for the new QB coach to develop.

Too creative for Carl ?
Not good enough for Philly?

Thoughts?

I definitely like the thought of this, and agree Philly would listen. But you nailed it yourself....Too creative for Carl ! :banghead:

eazyb81
04-19-2005, 08:07 AM
I like the thought of this, but i'm not sure it would happen. We need a WLB so Blackstock or Burnett would be a good choice in the late 1st round, and we could find a good CB at 35 in Webster or Green (Jackson will be gone). I'm worried that we will have to reach for a LB in the 1st round if we don't trade down, so this idea makes sense. Besides DJ, there really isn't an OLB that would be there at 15 that wouldn't be a reach at that point (I think the front office considers Thomas Davis a safety rather then a LB).

htismaqe
04-19-2005, 08:08 AM
I don't think Philly is looking that hard to move up.

htismaqe
04-19-2005, 08:09 AM
I like the thought of this, but i'm not sure it would happen. We need a WLB so Blackstock or Burnett would be a good choice in the late 1st round, and we could find a good CB at 35 in Webster or Green (Jackson will be gone). I'm worried that we will have to reach for a LB in the 1st round if we don't trade down, so this idea makes sense. Besides DJ, there really isn't an OLB that would be there at 15 that wouldn't be a reach at that point (I think the front office considers Thomas Davis a safety rather then a LB).

Blackstock is NOT a WSLB. He's not even a 4-3 SSLB.

He's a pass rush specialist.

Chiefnj
04-19-2005, 08:11 AM
I used to think trading down was a good idea. On paper it looks nice, but the Chiefs development of players just doesn't cut it. Give up the 2nd for Surtain and keep the 15 and take the best available athlete.

eazyb81
04-19-2005, 08:13 AM
Blackstock is NOT a WSLB. He's not even a 4-3 SSLB.

He's a pass rush specialist.

He played outside in a 3-4 in college, but is projected as a WLB in a 4-3 scheme. He does excel in the pass rush, and he would probably be a work in progress when trying to convert him to a legit OLB. However, he would play WLB for us IMO.

BigChiefFan
04-19-2005, 08:37 AM
Blackstock is NOT a WSLB. He's not even a 4-3 SSLB.

He's a pass rush specialist.His niche may be being a pass-rusher, but he really improved his run-stuffing ability last year. He definitely projects to being an everydown LBer, not just a specialist.

Mr. Kotter
04-19-2005, 08:44 AM
His niche may be being a pass-rusher, but he really improved his run-stuffing ability last year. He definitely projects to being an everydown LBer, not just a specialist.

Here's one review of him:

Darryl Blackstock
OLB | (6'2", 247, 4.66) | VIRGINIA

Scouts Grade: 87
View by: Round | Player | NCAA School | Position | NFL Team | Flag | All Ranked Players | NFL Draft History

Strengths: Is an explosive pursuit player. Is at his best when turned loose to rush the quarterback or pursue the run in space. Has very good initial quickness. First and second step quickness are impressive. Explodes out of his stance and beats most OT's off the snap of the ball. Anticipates the snap well and consistently gets good jumps. He has good speed to turn the corner as a pass rusher in the NFL. He also has excellent closing burst when rushing the passer. Has a real knack for getting pressure on QB's. Has developed a solid array of pass rush moves and will do a good job of working outside-in. Plays with a terrific motor and never gives up on a play. Will make a lot of plays in the running game when chasing from behind. Is an intelligent player with good discipline. Has excellent recognition skills. Plays within himself, doesn't take himself out of plays by getting too far upfield, and has a nose for the ball. Rarely see him taking poor angles or getting out of position. Will do a great job of sealing off the backside and will rarely get caught over-pursuing.

Weaknesses: Is a bit of a one-dimensional up-the-field player. Must add bulk and lower body strength. Needs to do a better job of using his hands to keep separation and to disengage. Has adequate strength but doesn't play with enough leverage when stacking at the POA versus the run. Biggest concern is in coverage. Lacks experience. Looks a bit stiff in the hips. Needs time to improve recognition skills in that facet

Overall: Blackstock spent one year at Fork Union Military Academy after high school and before enrolling at UVA in 2002. He immediately became a starter at the OLB position in coach Al Groh's 3-4 scheme and was a fulltime starter throughout his three collegiate seasons. As a junior in 2004, Blackstock 45 total tackles, 14 tackles for loss, including 11 sacks. In three seasons at UVA he combined for 44 TFL and 27 sacks. Blackstock has limitations in terms of his experience and fluidity in coverage. He'll need to continue to improve his technique and lower body strength in order to better defend the run, as well. However, Blackstock has a natural ability to rush the passer and he is also a very disruptive run-stopper when allowed to get up the field and pursue. Blackstock is disciplined, coachable and a hard-worker, which should allow him to make a smooth transition to the next level. His ideal fit would be as a 3-4 OLB in the NFL but he also has the potential to develop into a starting SLB in a 4-3 scheme if he can get bigger and become more consistent at the point of attack as a run defender. Regardless, Blackstock should contribute immediately as a situational pass rusher at the next level and, largely as a result; he projects as a second round draft choice.

CosmicPal
04-19-2005, 08:52 AM
I don't think Philly is looking that hard to move up.

They aren't. But, they don't need all the picks they have in this years draft. Giving up a couple to move up into the middle of the draft is all they really need to add some significant depth to a fully loaded team.

Kyle401
04-19-2005, 08:53 AM
The drop off from 15 to 31 is pretty substantial. Impact players who can contribute imediately generally go off the board in the top 20 picks or so. (Take Ryan Sims for instance.) If we trade down, I would only want to trade down 2-3 spots and then only if we were pretty certain we could still get our guy.

ct
04-19-2005, 08:57 AM
Here's one review of him:

Darryl Blackstock
OLB | (6'2", 247, 4.66) | VIRGINIA

Scouts Grade: 87
View by: Round | Player | NCAA School | Position | NFL Team | Flag | All Ranked Players | NFL Draft History

Strengths: Is an explosive pursuit player. Is at his best when turned loose to rush the quarterback or pursue the run in space. Has very good initial quickness. First and second step quickness are impressive. Explodes out of his stance and beats most OT's off the snap of the ball. Anticipates the snap well and consistently gets good jumps. He has good speed to turn the corner as a pass rusher in the NFL. He also has excellent closing burst when rushing the passer. Has a real knack for getting pressure on QB's. Has developed a solid array of pass rush moves and will do a good job of working outside-in. Plays with a terrific motor and never gives up on a play. Will make a lot of plays in the running game when chasing from behind. Is an intelligent player with good discipline. Has excellent recognition skills. Plays within himself, doesn't take himself out of plays by getting too far upfield, and has a nose for the ball. Rarely see him taking poor angles or getting out of position. Will do a great job of sealing off the backside and will rarely get caught over-pursuing.

Weaknesses: Is a bit of a one-dimensional up-the-field player. Must add bulk and lower body strength. Needs to do a better job of using his hands to keep separation and to disengage. Has adequate strength but doesn't play with enough leverage when stacking at the POA versus the run. Biggest concern is in coverage. Lacks experience. Looks a bit stiff in the hips. Needs time to improve recognition skills in that facet

Overall: Blackstock spent one year at Fork Union Military Academy after high school and before enrolling at UVA in 2002. He immediately became a starter at the OLB position in coach Al Groh's 3-4 scheme and was a fulltime starter throughout his three collegiate seasons. As a junior in 2004, Blackstock 45 total tackles, 14 tackles for loss, including 11 sacks. In three seasons at UVA he combined for 44 TFL and 27 sacks. Blackstock has limitations in terms of his experience and fluidity in coverage. He'll need to continue to improve his technique and lower body strength in order to better defend the run, as well. However, Blackstock has a natural ability to rush the passer and he is also a very disruptive run-stopper when allowed to get up the field and pursue. Blackstock is disciplined, coachable and a hard-worker, which should allow him to make a smooth transition to the next level. His ideal fit would be as a 3-4 OLB in the NFL but he also has the potential to develop into a starting SLB in a 4-3 scheme if he can get bigger and become more consistent at the point of attack as a run defender. Regardless, Blackstock should contribute immediately as a situational pass rusher at the next level and, largely as a result; he projects as a second round draft choice.


We just signed Kendrell Bell to be an every down LB, and to play whatever position we need. So why would it be such a huge deal if we draft a guy who's not initially ready to play the 3rd&Long downs, when we already have Bell and Fujita as our 2LBs in the Nickel package?

One other note, this review says he is a hard-worker, but I have read other reviews that opin he is inconsistent effort-wise, and can take plays off. So which is it?

bsp4444
04-19-2005, 09:14 AM
As far as available CB's after the first round, I've not heard anything lately about Brandon Browner from Oregon. Is he still an option ?

ct
04-19-2005, 09:20 AM
As far as available CB's after the first round, I've not heard anything lately about Brandon Browner from Oregon. Is he still an option ?

Read a few different rankings lately, and some were saying he's a former Safety. If true, I no longer have any interest in another conversion project. Anybody know more?

htismaqe
04-19-2005, 09:33 AM
We need instant impact from this draft. Blackstock is a project, plain and simple.

Mr. Kotter
04-19-2005, 10:48 AM
As far as available CB's after the first round, I've not heard anything lately about Brandon Browner from Oregon. Is he still an option ?

He's slid; isn't as fast as many CBs....and some teams are projecting him as FS down the road.

Mr. Kotter
04-19-2005, 10:49 AM
We need instant impact from this draft. Blackstock is a project, plain and simple.

I agree, but I think in many people's minds.....Davis at OLB is not a sure thing either. Personally, I'd prefer Davis....but there will be a transition time with him too.