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VonneMarie
04-19-2005, 05:40 PM
Good grief. King just said on ESPN that the Cards are the new favorite to trade for Surtain.

I didn't catch it all. Anyone catch it?

HolmeZz
04-19-2005, 05:40 PM
*prepares for melt down*

HolmeZz
04-19-2005, 05:41 PM
Wait, Peter King? Nevermind.

Bootlegged
04-19-2005, 05:42 PM
Get used to it, because its GOING TO HAPPEN. CP will sit on his ass while another draft pick rich team signs Surtain. I'll be shocked and awed if we sign him.

beer bacon
04-19-2005, 05:44 PM
Green wouldn't sign Hartwell because he said he wouldn't pay any player a 10+ million dollar signing bonus.

eazyb81
04-19-2005, 05:46 PM
smokescreen by Saban.....










:grovel:

beer bacon
04-19-2005, 05:47 PM
smokescreen by Saban.....










:grovel:

I don't see Arizona being able to swallow Surtain's contract.

sparkky
04-19-2005, 05:47 PM
Latt,
I do have to agree I fully expect someone to swoop in at the last minute and deal for Surtain.
Prepping myself for all the lies and excuses we'll hear about why we didn't do the deal.

ChiefsCountry
04-19-2005, 05:47 PM
Its Peter King, the dipshit who said Jake Plummer would be the MVP last season.

Logical
04-19-2005, 05:48 PM
I won't be the least bit suprised, dissappointed and upset we did not give up a worthless 2nd rounder (with Carl in charge) to get him. But not the least bit suprised.

VonneMarie
04-19-2005, 05:51 PM
I won't believe it, I just won't. :shake:

Wile_E_Coyote
04-19-2005, 05:51 PM
on the bright side, if KC rebuilds in a couple years, it's one less cap headache(Miami)

BigChiefFan
04-19-2005, 05:58 PM
I saw it on ESPN, but I I think it's Miami he's getting his info from. We'll see soon enough how this shakes out.

shaneo69
04-19-2005, 05:59 PM
If I'm the Chiefs, the only way I give up my 2nd rounder for Surtain is if we can't get Rogers at #15. If Rogers is there, I take him and then get an LB in the 2nd.

beer bacon
04-19-2005, 06:02 PM
If I'm the Chiefs, the only way I give up my 2nd rounder for Surtain is if we can't get Rogers at #15. If Rogers is there, I take him and then get an LB in the 2nd.

Yeah man. Why waste a 2nd rounder on one of the top five CBs when we can get a guy that has a 1 in 10 chance to be a quality starter? In addition, we know that first round CBs are ALWAYS quality starters there first year. I mean how often do rookies take a couple years to adjust to the NFL? It just doesn't make Chief sense to waste a 2nd round pick on some goofy bastard named Surtain.

Logical
04-19-2005, 06:03 PM
If I'm the Chiefs, the only way I give up my 2nd rounder for Surtain is if we can't get Rogers at #15. If Rogers is there, I take him and then get an LB in the 2nd.Booyah, a chance to pick up the next Mitchell. Yeah baby.:shake:

HolmeZz
04-19-2005, 06:10 PM
Eventhough I don't WANT to even have to think about this, we BETTER sign Law if Surtain falls through. I'll take the risk.

shaneo69
04-19-2005, 06:13 PM
Yeah man. Why waste a 2nd rounder on one of the top five CBs when we can get a guy that has a 1 in 10 chance to be a quality starter? In addition, we know that first round CBs are ALWAYS quality starters there first year. I mean how often do rookies take a couple years to adjust to the NFL? It just doesn't make Chief sense to waste a 2nd round pick on some goofy bastard named Surtain.

Sounds like a philosophical difference. I'd rather have Carlos Rogers and his rookie contract, and my 2nd rounder to boot, than a cap headache with degenerative knees.

CosmicPal
04-19-2005, 06:16 PM
Miami is only trying to shake things up and get KC to counter-offer now.

Mr. Kotter
04-19-2005, 06:17 PM
Could be just posturing....but it wouldn't surprise me a bit, if CP and the gang found a way to screw this up.

beer bacon
04-19-2005, 06:17 PM
Sounds like a philosophical difference. I'd rather have Carlos Rogers and his rookie contract, and my 2nd rounder to boot, than a cap headache with degenerative knees.

I would rather have a real chance at the Super Bowl then another pointless season.

crossbow
04-19-2005, 06:20 PM
You would think we could get used to this abuse after 16 years of it.

Logical
04-19-2005, 06:21 PM
Sounds like a philosophical difference. I'd rather have Carlos Rogers and his rookie contract, and my 2nd rounder to boot, than a cap headache with degenerative knees.

I would rather have both Carlos Rogers and Surtain, than a 2nd rounder.

shaneo69
04-19-2005, 06:22 PM
I would rather have a real chance at the Super Bowl then another pointless season.

You're right. Surtain all but assures us of a Super Bowl.

What would you do about our gaping hole at LB?

beer bacon
04-19-2005, 06:30 PM
You're right. Surtain all but assures us of a Super Bowl.

What would you do about our gaping hole at LB?

Did I say anything about Surtain assuring us of a Super Bowl? I seem to remember posting "a real chance at a Super Bowl"." Did I post something else? I don't think I did. If you could address my post instead of just making up an argument our conversation might be more constructive.

Did I say anything about not needing more LBs? I have been advocate of signing/drafting more LBs this whole off season.

I don't really see what any of this has to do with our discussion. I think it is pretty evident that Surtain gives us much better chance of making it to the Super Bowl then a 2nd round pick does. I also don't see how you can possibly argue against this. Maybe if we had a history of getting very good players out of the 2nd round, but our history tells us the opposite. We consistantly draft busts in the second round.

If I have the choice between getting an ice cream cone or getting kicked in the nuts, with a very slight chance, lets say a 1/8th chance, or two times in sixteen years, of getting some ice cream that is worse then the former ice cream cone, but still tasty, then I should choose the former. It is not that difficult of a decision.

crossbow
04-19-2005, 06:38 PM
You're right. Surtain all but assures us of a Super Bowl.

What would you do about our gaping hole at LB?

I like your posts. They are logical and well thought out but you forgot one important factor in all of this...The Chiefs are gonna be the ones who actualy pick the player during the draft. If we were following a team with a competant scouting staff then yeah, we could be losing a chance to get a good player at that draft spot. However, this IS the Chiefs we are talking about so we should assume that the pick will get waisted. Might as well trade it for a real player instead of using it on a guy that will get cut in two years anyway.

Chiefnj
04-19-2005, 06:53 PM
Arizona needs a corner and had a lot of extra cap space earlier in free agency. They could pull it off if their owner is willing to pay up.

shaneo69
04-19-2005, 06:56 PM
Did I say anything about Surtain assuring us of a Super Bowl? I seem to remember posting "a real chance at a Super Bowl"." Did I post something else? I don't think I did. If you could address my post instead of just making up an argument our conversation might be more constructive.

Did I say anything about not needing more LBs? I have been advocate of signing/drafting more LBs this whole off season.

I don't really see what any of this has to do with our discussion. I think it is pretty evident that Surtain gives us much better chance of making it to the Super Bowl then a 2nd round pick does. I also don't see how you can possibly argue against this. Maybe if we had a history of getting very good players out of the 2nd round, but our history tells us the opposite. We consistantly draft busts in the second round.

If I have the choice between getting an ice cream cone or getting kicked in the nuts, with a very slight chance, lets say a 1/8th chance, or two times in sixteen years, of getting some ice cream that is worse then the former ice cream cone, but still tasty, then I should choose the former. It is not that difficult of a decision.

I didn't realize that I had your picture in my avatar.

1st paragraph: I think C. Rogers gives us as good of a chance as Surtain to get to the Super Bowl. We have a lot of other holes to fill though. Hopefully that addresses your post adequately.

2nd paragraph: You have been an advocate of signing/drafting more LB's this whole offseason? Yeah, no sh*t. Most everyone here wanted Hartwell, but we didn't sign him. Life goes on. So now what? Just because you wanted to sign FA LB's doesn't solve the problem. You want to draft a LB at #15? Who? My question stands since you didn't answer it.....how are we going to fill the gaping hole at LB after we trade for Surtain?

3rd paragraph: I don't care about our 2nd round drafting history. This is a new year. We could get Michael Boley or Barret Ruud in the 2nd round this year after taking Rogers in the 1st round. I'd rather have Rogers and Boley than Surtain('s contract) and whatever 1st rounder you'd realistically be able to get.

4th paragraph: You see trading our 2nd rounder for Surtain as a slam dunk easy decision. I see a $10-$12 mil signing bonus and a 2nd rounder for a guy with no upside and degenerative knees. Like I said before.....it's a philosophical difference.


You're the one who made a sarcastic response to my original post. If you think Rogers and Boley would lead to a pointless season, I'm fine with that. I was just giving my opinion. Like my post said, "If I was the Chiefs...."

Wile_E_Coyote
04-19-2005, 06:58 PM
I wonder if Peterson is talking with Gruden about Barber...best for the Chiefs to have options too

HolmeZz
04-19-2005, 07:00 PM
Ronde Barber would be as effective as McCleon in Gunther's scheme. He's a cover 2 corner.

Wile_E_Coyote
04-19-2005, 07:02 PM
Ronde Barber would be as effective as McCleon in Gunther's scheme. He's a cover 2 corner.

McCleon, Battle, Bartee, Warfield out 4 games...

keg in kc
04-19-2005, 07:40 PM
Short of a snippet that begins with "Miami trades Patrick Surtain to xxx for xxx" nothing anybody says means anything this week. Probably gonna be a lot of games played before it gets done, regardless of where he goes.

siberian khatru
04-19-2005, 08:13 PM
I would rather have both Carlos Rogers and Surtain, than a 2nd rounder.

:clap:

shaneo69
04-19-2005, 08:25 PM
I would rather have both Carlos Rogers and Surtain, than a 2nd rounder.


And what about LB? Start Key Fox, or give Kawika another chance? Or maybe you're a big fan of Scanlon?

Chiefs Pantalones
04-19-2005, 08:45 PM
This is only a sign, IMO, that things are heating up between the Dolphins and Chiefs. Saturday is getting closer.

VonneMarie
04-19-2005, 08:49 PM
This is only a sign, IMO, that things are heating up between the Dolphins and Chiefs. Saturday is getting closer.
I was thinking all along that if a third party got involved CP would pull the trigger. Hopefully he'll be a Chief by Saturday. :thumb:

Logical
04-19-2005, 08:49 PM
And what about LB? Start Key Fox, or give Kawika another chance? Or maybe you're a big fan of Scanlon?There are still a lot of free agent LBs out there to draw on, unlike CB where the only choice left is Law, a guy that is too old and a real risk not to be ready for this season.

The Scanlon line was funny though.

Gravedigger
04-19-2005, 08:52 PM
Good point beer bacon

The Bad Guy
04-19-2005, 08:52 PM
Well this would be fitting if true.

King Carl played pattycake with the Dolphins for months now and while some thought it was a good strategy because we were the only bidder, it also could allow teams to get into the mix.

Starting to feel a lot like the Samari Rolle situation. King Carl even saying the Dolphins have to be realistic about their demands for Surtain tells me this thing isn't getting done.

It just blows my mind that the Chiefs can have this piss poor of a pass D and be this lax about fixing the problem.

I don't want to hear about patience either, we have been patient for 4 years waiting for this defense to get fixed and it hasn't.

the Talking Can
04-19-2005, 08:54 PM
If we don't acuire Surtain this off season has been nothing but a typical CP joke.

There were half a dozen quality starting CB's and so far Carl Peterson has done nothing but make a fool of himself trying (or mostly not trying) to sign one.

I will hunt CP down if we don't acquire Surtain. I will hunt him down and force him to eat the secret cheese that grows in the folds of Whitlocks bellies.

Anyone who won't trade a 2nd round pick for a probowl CB is a crap gulping retard in need of a pile driver.

Chiefs Pantalones
04-19-2005, 08:57 PM
I was thinking all along that if a third party got involved CP would pull the trigger. Hopefully he'll be a Chief by Saturday. :thumb:

Every year is different, but I remember a third party "threatning" to trade for Green in 2001 in the wakes of the 01 draft. That doesn't mean we will get Surtain, but it's something to consider.

Logical
04-19-2005, 08:58 PM
If we don't acuire Surtain this off season has been nothing but a typical CP joke.

There were half a dozen quality starting CB's and so far Carl Peterson has done nothing but make a fool of himself trying (or mostly not trying) to sign one.

I will hunt CP down if we don't acquire Surtain. I will hunt him down and force him to eat the secret cheese that grows in the folds of Whitlocks bellies.

Anyone who won't trade a 2nd round pick for a probowl CB is a crap gulping retard in need of a pile driver.

If I did not feel exactly the same way I would probably give you a hard time for this post. But since I do feel the same way :thumb:

VonneMarie
04-19-2005, 08:59 PM
Every year is different, but I remember a third party "threatning" to trade for Green in 2001 in the wakes of the 01 draft. That doesn't mean we will get Surtain, but it's something to consider.
I can hope...

Inspector
04-19-2005, 09:01 PM
Did I say anything about Surtain assuring us of a Super Bowl? I seem to remember posting "a real chance at a Super Bowl"." Did I post something else? I don't think I did. If you could address my post instead of just making up an argument our conversation might be more constructive.

Did I say anything about not needing more LBs? I have been advocate of signing/drafting more LBs this whole off season.

I don't really see what any of this has to do with our discussion. I think it is pretty evident that Surtain gives us much better chance of making it to the Super Bowl then a 2nd round pick does. I also don't see how you can possibly argue against this. Maybe if we had a history of getting very good players out of the 2nd round, but our history tells us the opposite. We consistantly draft busts in the second round.

If I have the choice between getting an ice cream cone or getting kicked in the nuts, with a very slight chance, lets say a 1/8th chance, or two times in sixteen years, of getting some ice cream that is worse then the former ice cream cone, but still tasty, then I should choose the former. It is not that difficult of a decision.

Your football posts are good, but this one is making me crave ice cream.


mmmmm...ice cream.....

Chiefs Pantalones
04-19-2005, 09:05 PM
If we don't acuire Surtain this off season has been nothing but a typical CP joke.

There were half a dozen quality starting CB's and so far Carl Peterson has done nothing but make a fool of himself trying (or mostly not trying) to sign one.

I will hunt CP down if we don't acquire Surtain. I will hunt him down and force him to eat the secret cheese that grows in the folds of Whitlocks bellies.

Anyone who won't trade a 2nd round pick for a probowl CB is a crap gulping retard in need of a pile driver.

I agree.

This offseason isn't the first time Carl has done this.

I remember in the offseason prior to the 98 season CP had all these great RBs in that were FAs. Our focus was the running game, so everyone thought that we should get a top RB and rid ourselves of RBBC. We had Robert Smith, Ricky Watters, and another big name RB in that I can't remember his name at this time. And guess what? We didn't sign any of them. We decided to go with Donnell Bennett as the starting RB. He had a good first game, then crapped his pants for the rest of the season. Why would one go with a Donnell Bennett as your starting RB instead of signing a big name RB? Because it's cheaper. It's that simple. If I were Lamar and Carl I'd pay my balls off to get the talent necessary to win Super Bowls, because that is what it's all about...winning championships. But not to this organization, whether we get Surtain or not, it's not the #1 priority, or this defense would've been addressed properly along time ago, IMO.

shaneo69
04-19-2005, 09:29 PM
Anyone who won't trade a 2nd round pick for a probowl CB is a crap gulping retard in need of a pile driver.

So if Carlos Rogers is there at #15, you want to pass on him?

Chiefs Pantalones
04-19-2005, 09:33 PM
So if Carlos Rogers is there at #15, you want to pass on him?

I wouldn't be mad, at this point, at who draft with the #15 pick just as long as it's a D player and not a reach or project pick that has the whole country, not just Chiefs fans, scratching their heads.

Bowser
04-19-2005, 09:36 PM
It's Peter King, fer cryin out loud. Normally, that would be enough to dismiss the story. But this IS the Chiefs front office. At this point, right now, I would not be suprised one way or another how the Surtain thing turns out.

But seriously, look at the guys at reciever we're going up against this year......

Week 1 - Laveranues Coles/Wayne Chrebet
Week 2 - Randy Moss/Jerry Porter
Week 3 - Rod Smith/Ashlie LeeLee
Week 4 - Terrell Owens/Todd Pinkston/Freddie Mitchell
Week 6 - Santana Moss/ ?
Week 7 - Chris Chambers/ ?
Week 8 - Keenan McCardell/Eric Parker (probablly somebody else)
Week 9 - Moss/Porter
Week 10 - Eric Moulds/Lee Evans
Week 11 - Andre Johnson/Jabbar Gaffney
Week 12 - New England and their five wide attack
Week 13 - Smith/LeeLee
Week 14 - Keyshawn Johnson/ ?
Week 15 - at NY Giants (finally a break?)
Week 16 - McCardell/ some young buck/Antonio Gates
Week 17 - Chad Johnson/Peter Warrick/TJ Houshenmenzadah(?)


If we don't get Surtain, I will run interference for Talking Can while he pops CP like a zit. Knowing how our defensive secondary played last year, there is no WAY we shouldn't get this deal done, especially after looking at the upcoming schedule.

jspchief
04-19-2005, 09:37 PM
And what about LB? Start Key Fox, or give Kawika another chance? Or maybe you're a big fan of Scanlon?What do you think we'll get with a second rounder? Someone better than Fox or Mitchell? Not likely. Or maybe someone better than Surtain?

Ignoring the fact that the Chiefs draft poorly in early rounds, the odds are still against a second round pick making any significant impact in his rookie year.

The Bad Guy
04-19-2005, 09:41 PM
It's Peter King, fer cryin out loud. Normally, that would be enough to dismiss the story. But this IS the Chiefs front office. At this point, right now, I would not be suprised one way or another how the Surtain thing turns out.

But seriously, look at the guys at reciever we're going up against this year......

Week 1 - Laveranues Coles/Wayne Chrebet
Week 2 - Randy Moss/Jerry Porter
Week 3 - Rod Smith/Ashlie LeeLee
Week 4 - Terrell Owens/Todd Pinkston/Freddie Mitchell
Week 6 - Santana Moss/ ?
Week 7 - Chris Chambers/ ?
Week 8 - Keenan McCardell/Eric Parker (probablly somebody else)
Week 9 - Moss/Porter
Week 10 - Eric Moulds/Lee Evans
Week 11 - Andre Johnson/Jabbar Gaffney
Week 12 - New England and their five wide attack
Week 13 - Smith/LeeLee
Week 14 - Keyshawn Johnson/ ?
Week 15 - at NY Giants (finally a break?)
Week 16 - McCardell/ some young buck/Antonio Gates
Week 17 - Chad Johnson/Peter Warrick/TJ Houshenmenzadah(?)


If we don't get Surtain, I will run interference for Talking Can while he pops CP like a zit. Knowing how our defensive secondary played last year, there is no WAY we shouldn't get this deal done, especially after looking at the upcoming schedule.

We don't get a break with the Giants - they signed Plaxico Burress.

Douche Baggins
04-19-2005, 09:43 PM
Boy if King Carl blows this one, Chiefs fans will never forgive him.

Bowser
04-19-2005, 09:44 PM
We don't get a break with the Giants - they signed Plaxico Burress.

Well, there you have it. I forgot they pulled off that trade. Do they still have Toomer?

Douche Baggins
04-19-2005, 09:45 PM
Those receivers are only part of the equation. We don't face the cream of the crop as far as QBs are concerned. Here are the only ones I'm worred about:

Chad Pennington
Kerry Collins x2
Donovan McNabb
Drew Brees x2
Tom Brady

Bowser
04-19-2005, 09:49 PM
Those receivers are only part of the equation. We don't face the cream of the crop as far as QBs are concerned. Here are the only ones I'm worred about:

Chad Pennington
Kerry Collins x2
Donovan McNabb
Drew Brees x2
Tom Brady

Hell, we'll put JP Losman in the Hall of Fame if we don't bring in Surtain, or someone equal to him. I think I'm going Gaz towards the thought of getting Ty Law.

And don't discount David Carr. That kid is underrated.

Douche Baggins
04-19-2005, 09:52 PM
Hell, we'll put JP Losman in the Hall of Fame if we don't bring in Surtain, or someone equal to him. I think I'm going Gaz towards the thought of getting Ty Law.

And don't discount David Carr. That kid is underrated.

He didn't do much against us last year.

Look at who we faced last year:

Jake Delhomme
Mike Vick
Peyton Manning
Brian Griese
Aaron Brooks
Tom Brady
Drew Brees x2
Billy Volek

I'd say our 2005 QB schedule is much less daunting.

Chan93lx50
04-19-2005, 09:56 PM
It's Peter King, fer cryin out loud. Normally, that would be enough to dismiss the story. But this IS the Chiefs front office. At this point, right now, I would not be suprised one way or another how the Surtain thing turns out.

But seriously, look at the guys at reciever we're going up against this year......

Week 1 - Laveranues Coles/Wayne Chrebet
Week 2 - Randy Moss/Jerry Porter
Week 3 - Rod Smith/Ashlie LeeLee
Week 4 - Terrell Owens/Todd Pinkston/Freddie Mitchell
Week 6 - Santana Moss/ ?
Week 7 - Chris Chambers/ ?
Week 8 - Keenan McCardell/Eric Parker (probablly somebody else)
Week 9 - Moss/Porter
Week 10 - Eric Moulds/Lee Evans
Week 11 - Andre Johnson/Jabbar Gaffney
Week 12 - New England and their five wide attack
Week 13 - Smith/LeeLee
Week 14 - Keyshawn Johnson/ ?
Week 15 - at NY Giants (finally a break?)
Week 16 - McCardell/ some young buck/Antonio Gates
Week 17 - Chad Johnson/Peter Warrick/TJ Houshenmenzadah(?)


If we don't get Surtain, I will run interference for Talking Can while he pops CP like a zit. Knowing how our defensive secondary played last year, there is no WAY we shouldn't get this deal done, especially after looking at the upcoming schedule.

:Lin:

My God they are going to rip us a new asshole

VonneMarie
04-19-2005, 10:07 PM
Just a little something from KFFL.

Chiefs | Still Working on Surtain Trade - from www.KFFL.com
Tue, 19 Apr 2005 20:58:05 -0700

Updating ongoing reports, according to KCChiefs.com, Kansas City Chiefs president Carl Peterson has confirmed that the Chiefs continue to work on a possible deal to land Miami Dolphins CB Patrick Surtain in a trade. "We're still talking, still negotiating, still trying to do something that makes sense contract-wise for the Kansas City Chiefs and it has to make sense for Patrick and his representative," Peterson said. Peterson added a deal would have to get done prior to the NFL Draft because Surtain's contract situation was "too complex" to be worked out on draft day.

If it ain't done by draft day, I don't think we gettin' him.

Bowser
04-19-2005, 10:13 PM
He didn't do much against us last year.

Look at who we faced last year:

Jake Delhomme
Mike Vick
Peyton Manning
Brian Griese
Aaron Brooks
Tom Brady
Drew Brees x2
Billy Volek

I'd say our 2005 QB schedule is much less daunting.

Oh, I don't disagree about the quality of QB this year compared to last. We'll just have to agree to disagree about Carr. I think he is a sure fire up-and-comer. I remember that pass he hit to Andre Johnson down the sideline last year. It was an incredible catch by Johson, but players like that make your QB better.

And he DID beat us last year..... ;)

Douche Baggins
04-19-2005, 10:14 PM
Oh, I don't disagree about the quality of QB this year compared to last. We'll just have to agree to disagree about Carr. I think he is a sure fire up-and-comer. I remember that pass he hit to Andre Johnson down the sideline last year. It was an incredible catch by Johson, but players like that make your QB better.

And he DID beat us last year..... ;)

Trent Green's pass to Coleman beat us last year. :banghead:

Bowser
04-19-2005, 10:17 PM
Trent Green's pass to Coleman beat us last year. :banghead:

Yeah, there was that little tidbit I was trying to block out my memory.......

:shake:

Pants
04-19-2005, 10:19 PM
Trent Green's pass to Coleman beat us last year. :banghead:

Gah! Priest almost made him fumble on the 1-yard line too. F*CK F*CK F*CK!

Douche Baggins
04-19-2005, 10:20 PM
Don't worry guys. Between Boerigter, Gonzalez, Wilson and Priest we're going to be UNSTOPPABLE in the redzone next year.

Bowser
04-19-2005, 10:21 PM
Don't worry guys. Between Boerigter, Gonzalez, Wilson and Priest we're going to be UNSTOPPABLE in the redzone next year.

*the sound of wood being knocked on*

Wallcrawler
04-20-2005, 02:21 AM
And what about LB? Start Key Fox, or give Kawika another chance? Or maybe you're a big fan of Scanlon?



You do realise that the objective is to win now, right? While we still have the offense capable of winning a championship?


Why would you want a rookie linebacker, over a pro bowl cornerback when the Chiefs defense was ranked 4th overall in fewest rushes against?

Noone cared about running the football, because the secondary was so freaking bad that they could pick up huge chunks of yardage whenever they Goddamned well pleased.

And your solution to this, is to add a ROOKIE CB in Carlos Rodgers, with no guarantee that he will be there at 15, and then draft another rookie linebacker in the second round?

Are you insane?


We need the Pro Bowl caliber talent that Patrick Surtain has to help this secondary get respectable. Once teams stop throwing the ball for 20+ yards on every third down, then you can run your mouth about how some linebackers could help.

Right now the front 7 is servicable. The secondary is atrocious.

As for your money concerns regarding Surtain's deal, wake up. You have to pay for top tier talent. Surely you havent been watching Carl Peterson for so long that youve lost that fact along the way.

You can add whatever linebacker you want to that front 7, but if you leave the secondary like it is, and expect a rookie to step in as a starter and shut down one side of the field, instead of a pro bowler who has proven that he can do it, youre out of your mind.


This defense isnt going to be completely fixed in one offseason. There are too many holes. The Chiefs complacency last offseason guraranteed that. Right now, they have to address the most pressing issue, and that issue is cornerback. Linebacker, Safety, and Defensive End have all been addressed in free agency. Cornerback has not been touched yet. We have noone to start opposite Eric Warfield, who is a number 2 corner on his best day. We dont know who the free safety is going to be.


The round 2 needs to be dealt to Miami, cut the BS and get some pro bowl talent in there at cornerback. Knight and Surtain were half of one of the best secondaries in the league, and they are going to be desperately needed if this defense is going to have a hope of shutting down the wide receivers that this team faces in the upcoming season.

And by the way, the Surtain degenerative knee thing is a myth. You show us a link to some quality information that says that Patrick Surtain has a degenerative knee, and then I might consider listening to this rabble. Until then, drop that excuse, because its pure BS.


Another linebacker would be nice, yes. But to value an undetermined rookie prospect in the second round over a proven Pro Bowl corner when you have the worst secondary in the league is ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.

Who do you think the Chiefs are going to select that will outplay Patrick Surtain this year?


We need guys who can play NOW, before this offense (QB, LT RG, HB, FB, WR) all retire.

The Chiefs dont have time to wait on guys who might be good in a few seasons. They have the ability to aquire pro bowl talent right now, and they damn well better jump at the opportunity if they want anyone to believe that they are serious about a championship run.

htismaqe
04-20-2005, 05:38 AM
If it ain't done by draft day, I don't think we gettin' him.

It it ain't done by draft day, NOBODY will get him. The Dolphins want picks now.

ct
04-20-2005, 07:22 AM
So now enter the Houston Texans who give up a 2nd AND a 3rd this year for Phillip Buchanon, and still CP feels the Dolphins demands are too much? I realize Houston gave up WAY too much, but this hurts KC in a bad way, no doubt about it!

htismaqe
04-20-2005, 07:29 AM
If we fail to acquire Surtain between today and Friday night about midnight, it's not going to happen.

Between this, and listening to the rundowns of the last 5 years' drafts, I'm finding myself wishing I rooted for another team.

Baby Lee
04-20-2005, 07:31 AM
If we fail to acquire Surtain between today and Friday night about midnight, it's not going to happen.

Between this, and listening to the rundowns of the last 5 years' drafts, I'm finding myself wishing I rooted for another team.
And at long last mackway finds himself nearing where I was when Rolle and Hartwell bolted. Welcome bud. :thumb:
We are sooooo fooked, because CP and DV made the double faux pas of telling the world that they don't have faith in our current personnel, then NOT REPLACING THEM.

keg in kc
04-20-2005, 07:47 AM
So now enter the Houston Texans who give up a 2nd AND a 3rd this year for Phillip Buchanon, and still CP feels the Dolphins demands are too much? I realize Houston gave up WAY too much, but this hurts KC in a bad way, no doubt about it!Not necessarily. The issue with Surtain has been and still is the contract; teams (not just us) are apparently hesitant to deal both high picks *and* major money. And the difference between the two is that Buchanan is a 4th year player, 25 years old (during the season), still under his rookie contract (5-year, $7 - $12 million) whereas Surtain is 29 and looking for a blockbuster deal.

In short: younger player + cheap contract (or cheaper if they rework him) = higher value

(I think Surtain warrants a 2nd, btw, always have, I'm just pointing out the differences. I also think waiting on the trade is the right move)

Edubs
04-20-2005, 08:03 AM
Just a little something from KFFL.

Chiefs | Still Working on Surtain Trade - from www.KFFL.com
Tue, 19 Apr 2005 20:58:05 -0700

Updating ongoing reports, according to KCChiefs.com, Kansas City Chiefs president Carl Peterson has confirmed that the Chiefs continue to work on a possible deal to land Miami Dolphins CB Patrick Surtain in a trade. "We're still talking, still negotiating, still trying to do something that makes sense contract-wise for the Kansas City Chiefs and it has to make sense for Patrick and his representative," Peterson said. Peterson added a deal would have to get done prior to the NFL Draft because Surtain's contract situation was "too complex" to be worked out on draft day.

If it ain't done by draft day, I don't think we gettin' him.


"still trying to do something that makes sense contract-wise"....I thought that part of the deal had been agreed upon. I thought what Miami wanted as far as pics were concerned was the problem.

milkman
04-20-2005, 08:09 AM
"still trying to do something that makes sense contract-wise"....I thought that part of the deal had been agreed upon. I thought what Miami wanted as far as pics were concerned was the problem.

We are getting different reports on that situation.

AirForceChief
04-20-2005, 08:15 AM
"still trying to do something that makes sense contract-wise"....I thought that part of the deal had been agreed upon. I thought what Miami wanted as far as pics were concerned was the problem.

Everything I've read attributed to King Carl has consistently stated that no deal has been done, but parameters have been set. "Close but no cigar."

All of which is academic if we can't work out something with the Dolphins, anywho...

Otter
04-20-2005, 08:19 AM
It's Peter King, fer cryin out loud. Normally, that would be enough to dismiss the story. But this IS the Chiefs front office. At this point, right now, I would not be suprised one way or another how the Surtain thing turns out.

But seriously, look at the guys at reciever we're going up against this year......

Week 1 - Laveranues Coles/Wayne Chrebet
Week 2 - Randy Moss/Jerry Porter
Week 3 - Rod Smith/Ashlie LeeLee
Week 4 - Terrell Owens/Todd Pinkston/Freddie Mitchell
Week 6 - Santana Moss/ ?
Week 7 - Chris Chambers/ ?
Week 8 - Keenan McCardell/Eric Parker (probablly somebody else)
Week 9 - Moss/Porter
Week 10 - Eric Moulds/Lee Evans
Week 11 - Andre Johnson/Jabbar Gaffney
Week 12 - New England and their five wide attack
Week 13 - Smith/LeeLee
Week 14 - Keyshawn Johnson/ ?
Week 15 - at NY Giants (finally a break?)
Week 16 - McCardell/ some young buck/Antonio Gates
Week 17 - Chad Johnson/Peter Warrick/TJ Houshenmenzadah(?)


If we don't get Surtain, I will run interference for Talking Can while he pops CP like a zit. Knowing how our defensive secondary played last year, there is no WAY we shouldn't get this deal done, especially after looking at the upcoming schedule.
Excellent analysis! :thumb:

PS - Giants still have Amania Toomer, Jeremy Shockey, Tiki Barber and will no doubt draft a WR early. Their defense is much better than ours to boot. Oh yeah, they signed Placo Burress too.

Strap in boys, unless we have a hell of a draft we're fooked. The last 3 years I sat watching the draft thinking "no way they could do as bad as last year" but low and behold they did.

Plan on sitting in front of the TV with your mouth open when the Chiefs announce their draft pick then have to look up on the internet who he is...count on it.

shaneo69
04-20-2005, 08:48 AM
And your solution to this, is to add a ROOKIE CB in Carlos Rodgers, with no guarantee that he will be there at 15, and then draft another rookie linebacker in the second round?


Yeah, that's right. I would take Rogers and Boley. If you don't like it, fine. Like I've said before, philosophical differences.

If Rogers isn't there at #15, I'd trade down, pick up an extra 3rd rounder, make the trade for Surtain, then take O. Thurman with my late 1st round pick.

eazyb81
04-20-2005, 08:54 AM
Yeah, that's right. I would take Rogers and Boley. If you don't like it, fine. Like I've said before, philosophical differences.

If Rogers isn't there at #15, I'd trade down, pick up an extra 3rd rounder, make the trade for Surtain, then take O. Thurman with my late 1st round pick.

Why Odell Thurman? Is a backup MLB really a priority? Or would you move Bell outside and put a rookie like Thurman in the middle? After the Kawika Mitchell fiasco, i'm not too sure about having a young guy in the middle calling the shots.

shaneo69
04-20-2005, 09:23 AM
Why Odell Thurman? Is a backup MLB really a priority? Or would you move Bell outside and put a rookie like Thurman in the middle? After the Kawika Mitchell fiasco, i'm not too sure about having a young guy in the middle calling the shots.

I'd move Bell outside. I think Thurman is a lot more ready to play in the NFL than Kawika was. But that's JMO.

Mr. Laz
04-20-2005, 09:27 AM
Ronde Barber would be as effective as McCleon in Gunther's scheme. He's a cover 2 corner.

except for gunther doesn't want to play cover 2 ... he wants to play man-on-man press coverage.

KCTitus
04-20-2005, 09:27 AM
Plan on sitting in front of the TV with your mouth open when the Chiefs announce their draft pick then have to look up on the internet who he is...count on it.

Outside the top 15-20 picks, I do that with all the teams not just KC. It seems like too much work.

milkman
04-20-2005, 09:31 AM
except for gunther doesn't want to play cover 2 ... he wants to play man-on-man press coverage.

I'm pretty sure that was his point.

tomahawk kid
04-20-2005, 09:34 AM
I am literally going to puke if we lose Surtain to the freaking Cardinals.

Carl and his 1,000 lb ego sure do make it hard to be a fan of this team sometimes.

Hopefully, this is simply a smokescreen by Miami to use as leverage.

Mr. Laz
04-20-2005, 09:36 AM
I'm pretty sure that was his point.

oooo .... dam, i just read that post all wrong ROFL

htismaqe
04-20-2005, 09:36 AM
And at long last mackway finds himself nearing where I was when Rolle and Hartwell bolted. Welcome bud. :thumb:
We are sooooo fooked, because CP and DV made the double faux pas of telling the world that they don't have faith in our current personnel, then NOT REPLACING THEM.

Well, I look at it this way.

With Rolle there were definite reasons not to sign the guy to a HUGE deal -- he spent almost half of his time on the injury report list, he played for some bad defenses, he was undersized, etc. Whether legit or not, well that's debatable. But there WERE flaws that one could reason wouldn't make him worth $15M.

With Hartwell there's certainly less of those. Perhaps the biggest one was that he wanted to be paid like the #1 LB in the league. Again, there was at least one reason that any reasonable person could say "Well, we didn't get him, but it's ok."

With Surtain, there are none of those reasons. NONE. There is absolutely ZERO reason the guy shouldn't be in a Chiefs uniform RIGHT ****ING NOW. He's a Pro Bowler who has played for the league's top pass defense -- and no, not last year's top pass defense, the top pass defense SINCE HE GOT THERE.

Wallcrawler
04-20-2005, 10:42 PM
With Surtain, there are none of those reasons. NONE. There is absolutely ZERO reason the guy shouldn't be in a Chiefs uniform RIGHT ****ING NOW. He's a Pro Bowler who has played for the league's top pass defense -- and no, not last year's top pass defense, the top pass defense SINCE HE GOT THERE.




Exactly.

I cannot fathom why the Chiefs are dicking around in the manner that they are in regard to this guy. I cant think of a single reason to justify not landing this guy on the defense. He's worth the 2nd rounder, and he's worth the money.

If they are actually serious about improving the secondary, they have a very, very strange way of showing it.

TEX
04-20-2005, 11:03 PM
Exactly.

I cannot fathom why the Chiefs are dicking around in the manner that they are in regard to this guy. I cant think of a single reason to justify not landing this guy on the defense. He's worth the 2nd rounder, and he's worth the money.

If they are actually serious about improving the secondary, they have a very, very strange way of showing it.

Beacuse unfortunately for the CHIEFS, TY LAW is still out there. I can't wait for the "One ARROWHEAD Drive SPIN JOB"... ROFL :shake:

TEX
04-20-2005, 11:05 PM
Well, I look at it this way.

With Rolle there were definite reasons not to sign the guy to a HUGE deal -- he spent almost half of his time on the injury report list, he played for some bad defenses, he was undersized, etc. Whether legit or not, well that's debatable. But there WERE flaws that one could reason wouldn't make him worth $15M.

With Hartwell there's certainly less of those. Perhaps the biggest one was that he wanted to be paid like the #1 LB in the league. Again, there was at least one reason that any reasonable person could say "Well, we didn't get him, but it's ok."

With Surtain, there are none of those reasons. NONE. There is absolutely ZERO reason the guy shouldn't be in a Chiefs uniform RIGHT ****ING NOW. He's a Pro Bowler who has played for the league's top pass defense -- and no, not last year's top pass defense, the top pass defense SINCE HE GOT THERE.


Just wait for all the "bad knees" crap to spew from C.P. and company after Zona signs Surtain... :shake:

TEX
04-20-2005, 11:14 PM
I would rather have both Carlos Rogers and Surtain, than a 2nd rounder.

EXACTLY! :clap:

Then sign a FA LB after June 1. with BOTH CB's we'd be for a LONG time. Man, this deal is there for the taking and the CHIEFS are going to blow it. :shake:

keg in kc
04-21-2005, 12:40 AM
With Surtain, there are none of those reasons. NONE. There is absolutely ZERO reason the guy shouldn't be in a Chiefs uniform RIGHT ****ING NOW. He's a Pro Bowler who has played for the league's top pass defense -- and no, not last year's top pass defense, the top pass defense SINCE HE GOT THERE.Let's not put the cart ahead of the horse. If we don't get Surtain there will be plenty of reason to complain, but negotiations are still going on.

CoMoChief
04-21-2005, 01:29 AM
Has anyone noticed how everytime CP or DV talk about the defense they say that they want the defense to be just "middle of the pack". What kind of goal is that, to be just average. Carl knew when he brought DV in that we were gonna spend all our money on offense. He tried to nickle and dime the defensive side of the ball and thought that we would score enough to overcome a bad defense. In some ways we do that, but come playoff time everyone knows that defense wins. I just think that we need to set a better goal rather than that of "middle of the pack" status. We need to set a goal more like, "get back to mid 90's defense" status.