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View Full Version : Phillip Buchanon traded to Houston


ZootedGranny
04-19-2005, 07:35 PM
No link, but its in the crawl on the bottom of ESPN News.

Mile High Mania
04-19-2005, 07:35 PM
Interesting... did it say what the terms were?

Bootlegged
04-19-2005, 07:35 PM
hmmm...I thought they'd dump Woodson. Interesting. I wonder how Voyager is handling this news.

ZootedGranny
04-19-2005, 07:36 PM
No, no terms of the trade...its not even on ESPN's site, or on the AP Wire.

Hercules Rockefell
04-19-2005, 07:37 PM
I'd bet a 2nd

HolmeZz
04-19-2005, 07:37 PM
Wonder what they could've given up.

|Zach|
04-19-2005, 07:39 PM
hmmm...I thought they'd dump Woodson. Interesting. I wonder how Voyager is handling this news.
Did he want us to reel in Woodson?

I couldn't imagine.

HolmeZz
04-19-2005, 07:40 PM
This could **** with our Surtain leverage. No way Buchanon should be traded for a higher pick than Surtain. I don't care about age.

OmahaChief
04-19-2005, 07:56 PM
Sweet! Seeing as the Texans are my #2 team I am very happy to see PBuch out of Oakland. Now maybe he will live up to his potential.

ZootedGranny
04-19-2005, 08:01 PM
Still no details on the trade, but here's confirmation via link:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2041266&CMP=OTC-DT9705204233

chop
04-19-2005, 08:03 PM
This could **** with our Surtain leverage. No way Buchanon should be traded for a higher pick than Surtain. I don't care about age.


Comparing the two players you would be correct, Surtain is better. The thing you're missing is that the Dolphins are in cap trouble and Surtain takes up a huge chunk of that cap all by himself. Miami may have to settle for a lower pick. Only time will tell.

Alphaman
04-19-2005, 08:06 PM
With 2 years left on his rookie deal, the accelerated cap hit should be $1M costing the Raiders $300K in cap space this year. I think he received a $2.5M signing bonus spread over 5 years.

Wile_E_Coyote
04-19-2005, 08:08 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2041266&CMP=OTC-DT9705204233

saying 2+3 now

beer bacon
04-19-2005, 08:09 PM
The article posted earlier in this thead was updated. The Raiders got a 2nd and 3rd round pick in this year's draft.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2041266

Cornerback Phillip Buchanon, the Oakland Raiders first-round pick in the 2002 draft who had fallen out of favor with coaches and club officials in recent months, was traded to the Houston Texans on Tuesday night, ESPN.com has learned.

Details on what the Raiders received in return were not yet available.

The Raiders have been shopping Buchanon for weeks and discussed a possible deal with the Washington Redskins during the past week. Oakland also has been attempting to locate a suitor for its other starting cornerback, Charles Woodson, but hasn't found any takers.

Buchanon, 24, was the 17th player selected overall in the 2002 draft. While the former University of Miami star had slipped in the eyes of the Raiders, other teams felt he still retained playmaking skills and return abilities. In 14 starts last season, he had 59 tackles and three interceptions.

Another attractive element for the Texans is Buchanon's youth and his experience in a system that stressed a considerable degree of man-to-man coverage.

The Texans already have one outstanding young cornerback in Dunta Robinson, one of their two first-rounders in 2004 and a player many felt was the best rookie defender in the NFL last season. Their other starting corner, 11-year veteran Aaron Glenn, will turn 33 this summer. The trade ensures the Texans are prepared for the future at one of the game's high-commodity positions.

In 36 appearances with the Raiders, Buchanon totaled 122 tackles, 11 interceptions and 13 passes defensed. He returned four interceptions for touchdowns, at least one in every season of his brief career. He is also a dangerous punt returner, averaging 11.0 yards with three touchdowns on 72 runbacks.

Buchanon still has two years remaining on his original rookie deal, with base salaries of $700,000 for 2005 and $800,000 for 2006.

Len Pasquarelli is a senior NFL writer for ESPN.com. To check out Len's chat archive, click here

NaptownChief
04-19-2005, 08:09 PM
This could **** with our Surtain leverage. No way Buchanon should be traded for a higher pick than Surtain. I don't care about age.Big difference due to their contracts...Surtain is final year and Buchanan has two left. And Surtain has a deteriorating knee.

Alphaman
04-19-2005, 08:10 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2041266&CMP=OTC-DT9705204233

saying 2+3 now

WOW that would certainly up the ante on Surtain.

HolmeZz
04-19-2005, 08:10 PM
WTF was Houston thinking? :(

Rausch
04-19-2005, 08:14 PM
Big difference due to their contracts...Surtain is final year and Buchanan has two left. And Surtain has a deteriorating knee.

Bushcannon is a guy who has yet t0 live up to the hype and Surtain is a guy who's a probowler and c0nsistent vet...

(i'm n0t g0ing leet, my "o" key keeps sticking... :mad: )

HolmeZz
04-19-2005, 08:16 PM
Your 'O' was fine in Bushcannon. You goddamn liar. :mad:

NaptownChief
04-19-2005, 08:17 PM
Bushcannon is a guy who has yet t0 live up to the hype and Surtain is a guy who's a probowler and c0nsistent vet...

(i'm n0t g0ing leet, my "o" key keeps sticking... :mad: )


Absolutely true but in this day and age it is far more about contracts than it is the players....Surtain is being treated a lot like a free agent cause it will immediately or nearly immediately require a big contract....And because of that the draft compensation is much lower than his ability would otherwise bring if he were already locked into a long term cap friendly deal.

Ultra Peanut
04-19-2005, 08:17 PM
Voyager is weeping right now. WEEPING.

SoCalRaider
04-19-2005, 08:18 PM
WOW that would certainly up the ante on Surtain.... and to think you could have had Surtain for only a second.

ROFL

beer bacon
04-19-2005, 08:20 PM
... and to think you could have had Surtain for only a second.

ROFL

I think you forgot the part about how we can still have Surtain for a second.

Hercules Rockefell
04-19-2005, 08:23 PM
I think you forgot the part about how we can still have Surtain for a second.

and there's 0 chance that the 'Fins come off that demand now

HolmeZz
04-19-2005, 08:26 PM
I think Miami would still take a straight up #2 for him.

old_geezer
04-19-2005, 08:27 PM
If Carl's not on the phone right now trying to finalize the Surtain deal for a second rounder, he ought to have that lump of coal he calls a heart stuffed up his butt.

HipHopper4Life
04-19-2005, 08:28 PM
Oaklands been sticking to teams in trades lately. No worries though, we have the self proclaimed toughest SOB negotiator.

People are kidding themselves if they think this doesn't effect Miami's asking price. Saban is not going to let himself look like he got taken.

beer bacon
04-19-2005, 08:31 PM
Oaklands been sticking to teams in trades lately. No worries though, we have the self proclaimed toughest SOB negotiator.

People are kidding themselves if they think this doesn't effect Miami's asking price. Saban is not going to let himself look like he got taken.

He won't look like he got taken. Since when is Surtain 24 and still on his rookie contract?

HolmeZz
04-19-2005, 08:32 PM
A 2nd rounder for Surtain isn't 'taken'. It's very good value given Surtain's 29, has a bad knee, and is on the last year of his contract.

HipHopper4Life
04-19-2005, 08:42 PM
A 2nd rounder for Surtain isn't 'taken'. It's very good value given Surtain's 29, has a bad knee, and is on the last year of his contract.


Taken in the sense that alot of people here thought we'd get him for a 4th and change. Some of us were saying to give up that 2nd a long time ago before Murphy's Law could kick us in the nuts only to be told that a 2nd was too high.

Now not only did the Buchanon trade happen, but Arizona has appeared to enter the Surtain sweepstakes as well. Not only that, but they have a higher 2nd than we do.

The Bad Guy
04-19-2005, 08:43 PM
A 2nd rounder for Surtain isn't 'taken'. It's very good value given Surtain's 29, has a bad knee, and is on the last year of his contract.

This Chiefsplanet myth rumor that he has a degenerative knee has to stop.

He might have a knee problem - which hasn't been posted anywhere but here and yahoo - but it's not degenerative.

A 2nd for a Pro Bowl CB is a bargin. I don't care how much time is left on his contract. The Chiefs haven't had a CB worth a shit in 4 years. When you have the worst defense in the league and the worst pass D, it should be a price they are willing to pay.

eazyb81
04-19-2005, 08:45 PM
Taken in the sense that alot of people here thought we'd get him for a 4th and change. Some of us were saying to give up that 2nd a long time ago before Murphy's Law could kick us in the nuts only to be told that a 2nd was too high.

Now not only did the Buchanon trade happen, but Arizona has appeared to enter the Surtain sweepstakes as well. Not only that, but they have a higher 2nd than we do.

"But what's the worst that could happen if we wait a little longer???"

Well, now we see what could happen....

CP once again outsmarted himself and we might have to give up more for Surtain then Miami was originally asking for......if we get him at all.

:cuss:

HipHopper4Life
04-19-2005, 08:54 PM
If we really wanted to be proactive now for a change we'd call the Bills about Nate Clements in exchange for the 15th pick. They don't have a first round pick this year and aren't sure they can sign him after this coming season. Clements is only 24 and is IMO one of the top 3 corners in the league. He'd cost more than Surtain but we'd be better off in the long run.

the Talking Can
04-19-2005, 08:56 PM
man, Houston got raped...I wish we'd get the good end of one of these deals sometime....

tk13
04-19-2005, 09:00 PM
If we really wanted to be proactive now for a change we'd call the Bills about Nate Clements in exchange for the 15th pick. They don't have a first round pick this year and aren't sure they can sign him after this coming season. Clements is only 24 and is IMO one of the top 3 corners in the league. He'd cost more than Surtain but we'd be better off in the long run.
You'd rather trade our first for Clements over a 2nd for Patrick Surtain?

Hercules Rockefell
04-19-2005, 09:01 PM
man, Houston got raped...I wish we'd get the good end of one of these deals sometime....

Still got an hour until it's Wednesday. Half the AFCW has raped someone in a trade today, the Bolts and Chiefs need to step up.

jAZ
04-19-2005, 09:15 PM
Hello people!

Think this trade trough, seriously.

Houston just chose to trade MORE picks for Buchanon INSTEAD of less picks for Surtain.

It's not like Surtain was available to everyone but Houston.

The market says (for whatever reason), that Buchanon is valued higher than Surtain.

My guess is contract size and age.

But the logic that dictates that Surtain is worth more than Buchanon is terribly flawed.

HipHopper4Life
04-19-2005, 09:17 PM
You'd rather trade our first for Clements over a 2nd for Patrick Surtain?


Yep. Clements is arguably the better player at this point, much younger and a much better fit as a Gunther type corner since he plays almost exclusively press man coverage where as Surtain has been predominately a zone corner for the past two or three years. With Surtain, you'd have the worry that the wheels would fall off when he hits the 30 mark like so many corners before him.

I'd argue that Clements was the best corner in the league last year bar none. Washington was being rumored to be considering giving up the 9th pck for him.

Clements is the less risky choice between the two IMO and almost certainly better than any player we'd draft at 15. Give me Clements and a LB or even another corner in the 2nd.

Chiefs Pantalones
04-19-2005, 09:18 PM
Hello people!

Think this trade trough, seriously.

Houston just chose to trade MORE picks for Buchanon INSTEAD of less picks for Surtain.

It's not like Surtain was available to everyone but Houston.

The market says (for whatever reason), that Buchanon is valued higher than Surtain.

My guess is contract size and age.

But the logic that dictates that Surtain is worth more than Buchanon is terribly flawed.

Houston runs mostly zone coverage, and IMO, Buchanon is more of a zone CB, because I haven't seen him be successful maning up on anyone when he actually wasn't hurt.

Nightfyre
04-19-2005, 09:19 PM
Yep. Clements is arguably the better player at this point, much younger and a much better fit as a Gunther type corner since he plays almost exclusively press man coverage where as Surtain has been predominately a zone corner for the past two or three years. With Surtain, you'd have the worry that the wheels would fall off when he hits the 30 mark like so many corners before him.

I'd argue that Clements was the best corner in the league last year bar none. Washington was being rumored to be considering giving up the 9th pck for him.

Clements is the less risky choice between the two IMO and almost certainly better than any player we'd draft at 15. Give me Clements and a LB or even another corner in the 2nd.
:clap: :clap: :clap:

whoman69
04-19-2005, 09:32 PM
IMO, this does nothing to the value of Surtain. One club overpaying for a player does not change the whole league structure. Miami still has no future plans for Surtain, and holds back their future by keeping him. He additionally takes up salary and cap space they could put to better use.

Wile_E_Coyote
04-19-2005, 09:33 PM
last I read the Raiders HAD to move Woodson for cap reasons. So they trade the other corner with a rookie contract....

The Bad Guy
04-19-2005, 09:37 PM
Yep. Clements is arguably the better player at this point, much younger and a much better fit as a Gunther type corner since he plays almost exclusively press man coverage where as Surtain has been predominately a zone corner for the past two or three years. With Surtain, you'd have the worry that the wheels would fall off when he hits the 30 mark like so many corners before him.

I'd argue that Clements was the best corner in the league last year bar none. Washington was being rumored to be considering giving up the 9th pck for him.

Clements is the less risky choice between the two IMO and almost certainly better than any player we'd draft at 15. Give me Clements and a LB or even another corner in the 2nd.

Surtain has been a zone corner? I saw a LOT of man-to-man coverage in the Dolphins games I watched last year. They didn't have the top pass D because they zoned it up.

Name the other Pro Bowl corners that hit a wall when they turned 30?

The difference between Clements and Surtain isn't worth the Chiefs giving up 31 spots of draft position for.

Clements is going to want a similar deal to that of Fred Smoot so we wouldn't be saving any money with his contract either.

HipHopper4Life
04-19-2005, 10:13 PM
Surtain has been a zone corner? I saw a LOT of man-to-man coverage in the Dolphins games I watched last year. They didn't have the top pass D because they zoned it up.

Dude, I lived in Miami for the past 4 years and saw almost every game they played. Bates ran a cover two with his safeties and his corners in zone most of the time with some man off thrown in. They didn't play their corners in press man trail. There was a stink about it on talk shows in Miami because Madison struggled in their zone schemes. Their pass defense being ranked so high had alot to do with Jason Taylor's pass rush ability.



The difference between Clements and Surtain isn't worth the Chiefs giving up 31 spots of draft position for.

I'd argue that the probability of Clements being at the top of his game over the next five years is far greater than Surtain's.


Clements is going to want a similar deal to that of Fred Smoot so we wouldn't be saving any money with his contract either.

I never said we'd be saving money, I stated he'd cost more than Surtain. He should since a great 24 year old corner holds more value than a great 29 year old corner.

HolmeZz
04-19-2005, 10:14 PM
Surtain is a press corner if I've ever seen one. :p

SoCalRaider
04-19-2005, 10:57 PM
The market says (for whatever reason), that Buchanon is valued higher than Surtain.

My guess is contract size and age.
...You also might want to consider things like need and the agent involved.

There is a "perception" that the Fins are forced to trade Surtain because of his cap number. Therefore teams are thinking they can lowball the Fins and still get him. The Buchanon situation is the opposite because even though he wanted out, his cap number dictated that the Raiders were under absolutely no pressure to trade him. Therefore teams would have to give the Raiders a little something extra to take him.

You also have to give props to Rosenhaus... because he as much as anybody is probably responsible for getting the Texans to cough up the pics. Rosenhaus, in my opinion, has to be the #1 agent in football right now. Not only is he on great terms with every team in the league, but this mofo is knocking down deals left and right.

Though I still think this has an impact on Surtain's asking price because if Saban gets anything less in return for Surtain, he looks like a fool in his 1st year. Sure Saban is under pressure to move Surtain... but I'll bet you he's now under more scrutiny to show that in his 1st season he can match what the Raiders got in return for Buchanon.

Tribal Warfare
04-20-2005, 12:04 AM
There goes Rodgers, now KC will have to either tradeup for DJ, and trade the 4th and next years 2nd for Surtain. Then their's staying put,and getting Thomas Davis for the OLB spot.

Rausch
04-20-2005, 12:08 AM
This makes no sense to me. I could understand the Always-injured-mouthy-anarchist getting $#at canned, but Buttcannon was due to expolide...

Seriously, Buchanan had the bigger upside by far, and was playing better the short while they both started.

I'd trade Woddy before Butch-annon....

Logical
04-20-2005, 12:31 AM
ROFL Way to go Carl you jackass, you could have had Surtain for a single 2nd round pick, now the price has gone up, with Buchanan going for a 2nd and 3rd.

Oh and the irony of Al Davis f*cking us over is not lost on me.

SoCalRaider
04-20-2005, 12:41 AM
This makes no sense to me. I could understand the Always-injured-mouthy-anarchist getting $#at canned, but Buttcannon was due to expolide...

Seriously, Buchanan had the bigger upside by far, and was playing better the short while they both started.

I'd trade Woddy before Butch-annon....
The RAiders are all about dumping Woodson... problem is they can't find a team willing to talk to his jackass agent...
:(

SoCalRaider
04-20-2005, 12:42 AM
Oh and the irony of Al Davis f*cking us over is not lost on me.
Me too... ROFL

Joe Seahawk
04-20-2005, 12:46 AM
The Raiders could just trade the 2nd they got from the Texans for Surtain.. so in effect they got Surtain and a 3rd for Buchanon... :eek:

Count Zarth
04-20-2005, 12:49 AM
The Raiders could just trade the 2nd they got from the Texans for Surtain.. so in effect they got Surtain and a 3rd for Buchanon... :eek:

Oh F*CK. :banghead:

Joe Seahawk
04-20-2005, 12:53 AM
Oh F*CK. :banghead:


Wouldn't that just leave tire tracks on Petersons face?

Rausch
04-20-2005, 12:54 AM
The Raiders could just trade the 2nd they got from the Texans for Surtain.. so in effect they got Surtain and a 3rd for Buchanon... :eek:

I see we're just now getting there. Well, congrats. While we have rivals to deal with the only pressure your division feels is to NOT lose to the other losers that make the division.

And I think....ere......hold on......NFCW time...... :Lin:

SoCalRaider
04-20-2005, 12:55 AM
The Raiders could just trade the 2nd they got from the Texans for Surtain.. so in effect they got Surtain and a 3rd for Buchanon... :eek:
The master plan right now is contingent on moving Deadwood and clearing up that $10.5 million in cap space. If that happens...

*** Trade the Texans 2nd rounder for Surtain.
*** Sign Ty Law
*** Land Simeon Rice June 1st
*** Begin booking reservations to the Super Bowl

HolmeZz
04-20-2005, 01:00 AM
They're not going to be able to get rid of Woodson, and that's why none of this will happen.

Logical
04-20-2005, 01:29 AM
The master plan right now is contingent on moving Deadwood and clearing up that $10.5 million in cap space. If that happens...

*** Trade the Texans 2nd rounder for Surtain.
*** Sign Ty Law
*** Land Simeon Rice June 1st
*** Begin booking reservations to the Super BowlWow the Raiders have their own Gunther Fan.

Wile_E_Coyote
04-20-2005, 07:06 AM
The Raiders could just trade the 2nd they got from the Texans for Surtain.. so in effect they got Surtain and a 3rd for Buchanon... :eek:

the Texans had #47, Chiefs #46. But the Raiders have #38

Tuckdaddy
04-20-2005, 07:14 AM
The Raiders will have very very very bad defense this year.

Dr. Van Halen
04-20-2005, 07:36 AM
The master plan right now is contingent on moving Deadwood and clearing up that $10.5 million in cap space. If that happens...

*** Trade the Texans 2nd rounder for Surtain.
*** Sign Ty Law
*** Land Simeon Rice June 1st
*** Begin booking reservations to the Super Bowl


Meanwhile, at linebacker ...

Seriously, just a reminder that you traded your only decent LB for Moss.

eazyb81
04-20-2005, 07:59 AM
Meanwhile, at linebacker ...

Seriously, just a reminder that you traded your only decent LB for Moss.

wait, did you forget they still have Danny Clark???




:LOL:

Garcia Bronco
04-20-2005, 07:59 AM
I think this makes your trade for Surtain about impossible.

Nightfyre
04-20-2005, 08:01 AM
I think this makes your trade for Surtain about impossible.
45-17


I think i will say this everytime a bronco fan tries to speak about the chiefs.

beer bacon
04-20-2005, 08:02 AM
I think this makes your trade for Surtain about impossible.

I think it doesn't. Buchanon and Surtain are in completely different situations. The fact that the Texans chose to trade for Buchanon rather then trading for Surtain bears out there are other factors included in trades other then the pure performance of the person up for trade.

King_Chief_Fan
04-20-2005, 08:04 AM
The RAiders are all about dumping Woodson... problem is they can't find a team willing to talk to his jackass agent...
:(

Just cut his ass June 1.......we will take it from there

Nightfyre
04-20-2005, 08:06 AM
Just cut his ass June 1.......we will take it from there
No, we wont.

Garcia Bronco
04-20-2005, 08:11 AM
45-17


I think i will say this everytime a bronco fan tries to speak about the chiefs.

It doesn't bother me.

Nightfyre
04-20-2005, 08:12 AM
It doesn't bother me.
maybe you'd prefer the series record?

RaiderH8r
04-20-2005, 08:14 AM
45-17


I think i will say this everytime a bronco fan tries to speak about the chiefs.
http://www.atlantafalcons.com/uploads/photos/perm/main/COCHIACNMFPH/34558.jpg

Hey, we missed the playoffs....I'm going to Disneyland.

Garcia Bronco
04-20-2005, 08:16 AM
I think it doesn't. Buchanon and Surtain are in completely different situations. The fact that the Texans chose to trade for Buchanon rather then trading for Surtain bears out there are other factors included in trades other then the pure performance of the person up for trade.

And I'm saying it sets the market i.e. the bar even higher. No way will CP trade the 4th and 2nd for Surtain.....and they haven't traded the 2nd as of yet...so why would that change? The only guess I could come up with about the Texans wanting PB over Surtain is that they see more upside with PB that surtain. Plus....PB has two years left as opposed to one. It sucks for you guys that you can't trade that 3rd. IMO...Surtain isn't going to help you....so why over spend for him. CB has been made worthless in this league. You need horses on the d-line more than anything.

Garcia Bronco
04-20-2005, 08:18 AM
maybe you'd prefer the series record?
We could do this all day...

Maybe you would prefer Super Bowl appearances?


But you can't make me feel bad about a game in december that we are 1-14 since 1968 or so. I pissed that it's scheduled again...but what can you do.

HC_Chief
04-20-2005, 08:19 AM
CB has been made worthless in this league. You need horses on the d-line more than anything.

Misconception. CB is still extremely important - perhaps even moreso now that players can no longer rely on physical play down the field. You need people with good technique now more than ever.

KC needs linebackers more than DL. As it stands, we have one.

Garcia Bronco
04-20-2005, 08:22 AM
You need people with good technique now more than ever.



And I don't think there are many good corners with what you're talking about based on how close we are to the rule enforcement change. Let alone corners with those skills who are available.

HC_Chief
04-20-2005, 08:23 AM
And I don't think there are many good corners with what you're talking about based on how close we are to the rule enforcement change. Let alone corners with those skills who are available.

There are/were three available this offseason: Samari Rolle (Carl f*cked it up), Partick Surtain (Carl is f*cking it up), and Ty Law (Carl will probably overpay and he won't be 100% 'til October... when we're already virtually eliminated).

RaiderH8r
04-20-2005, 08:25 AM
There are/were three available this offseason: Samari Rolle (Carl f*cked it up), Partick Surtain (Carl is f*cking it up), and Ty Law (Carl will probably overpay and he won't be 100% 'til October... when we're already virtually eliminated).
If I weren't a Broncos fan I'd be crying for you. Becase wow, you guys can't catch a break on this. But hey, at least you still have Goonther and the Career Day Defense. Goonther will fix everything. :thumb: