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elvomito
04-20-2005, 03:55 AM
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/football/nfl/11435557.htm

One man claims to forecast success from profiles
By JON WILNER
San Jose Mercury News

In their pre-draft evaluations of quarterbacks Alex Smith and Aaron Rodgers, the 49ers' brass have sought advice from a wide range of coaches, scouts, trainers and doctors.

But the 49ers have not consulted with the man who decoded the Peyton Manning-Ryan Leaf Draft Debate of 1998, the man who claims to have unique insight into the way athletes move and think, the man known as ``The Brain Doctor.''

His diagnosis?

``The 49ers are nuts for not contacting me,'' Jonathan Niednagel said last week. ``Each of those guys has an inborn brain type, and that will dramatically affect the way they play.''

Niednagel is not a doctor; he was a finance major in college. But he has spent two decades studying how brain circuitry affects performance and gets paid six figures by professional sports teams for advice on potential draft picks and free-agent signees.

He believes, for instance, that there's an ideal brain type for quarterbacks: ESTP, an acronym for extroverted, sensing, thinking, perceiving. Joe Montana is an ESTP. So are John Elway, Brett Favre, Dan Marino and Manning. They live for the moment and aren't fazed by their own mistakes. When the stakes are highest, they think as logically as Mr. Spock.

``Under pressure, you localize to the area of the brain where you are strongest,'' said Niednagel (pronounced NEED-noggle). ``Guys like Montana and Favre, they are thinkers.''

So what about the hard-wiring of the quarterbacks at the top of the 49ers' draft board?

Based on a preliminary analysis, Niednagel said, neither Smith nor Rodgers is an ESTP. That doesn't necessarily mean they're destined for failure. Tom Brady isn't an ESTP, either. But he's perfectly suited for the team New England Patriots Coach Bill Belichick has built around him.

``If you put Brady with another squad, there's no way he would have developed the way he has,'' Niednagel said. ``He's not a guy who, if you let him do the Brett Favre-freelance thing, he's going to be effective. But he's with a coach who is very structured and knows how to use him.''

Niednagel made a nickname for himself during the '98 draft. After Indianapolis picked Manning No. 1, Niednagel turned to San Diego Chargers General Manager Bobby Beathard and explained that Leaf was not hard-wired to be an NFL quarterback. The Chargers took Leaf anyway, and three years later he was out of the league.

``I wish we had had more exposure to Jon at the time, so we would have put more weight on his evaluation,'' Beathard told the Albany (N.Y.) Times Union last year. ``He was right.''

Beathard's view isn't shared by all. Terry Sandbek, a clinic psychologist from Sacramento, compared brain typing to ``astrology.''

``There's no validity and no reliability,'' Sandbek said, ``and those are the gold standards in the scientific community.''

Niednagel, 57, has no hard science in his background. He grew up in Evansville, Ind., attended Westmont College in Santa Barbara and said he graduated from Long Beach State, although the Mercury News was unable to confirm his degree.

After college, he coached Pop Warner football and noticed a direct correlation between motor skills and personality. In 1983, he founded Type Dynamics, which became the Brain Type Institute in the early '90s. He runs a Web site (braintypes.com), is the author of several books and has been profiled by ESPN, Sports Illustrated and Fox Sports.

His theories are based on the brain-typing method first proposed by Swiss psychiatrist Carl Jung and popularized by the Myers-Briggs personality test. According to Katherine Briggs and her daughter, Isabel Briggs Myers, there are 16 personality types, each derived from four pairs of psychological attributes:

introverted or extroverted (I or E).

sensing or intuitive (S or N).

thinking or feeling (T or F).

judging or perceiving (J or P).

But Niednagel believes an individual's hard-wiring determines more than personality -- that it's 65 percent responsible for physical, cognitive and spatial skills, as well.

In other words, one brain type lends itself to a strong right arm, another to superb hand-eye coordination, another to nimble feet.

The ideal type for quarterbacks is not the same as the ideal type for point guards or starting pitchers. One type even makes for the best coaches: John Wooden, Mike Krzyzewski, Walter Alston and Tom Landry all can be classified as ISTJs, according to Niednagel.

``Nurture could be less than 35 percent, but the 65 percent that's nature is so dominant that you won't find certain types in any sport, or any position in a certain sport,'' said Niednagel, an ISTJ.

Not wanting to tip off the competition -- or expose themselves to second-guessing by fans and media -- most coaches and general managers keep their relationship with Niednagel private.

Danny Ainge, the Boston Celtics' director of basketball operations, is the exception. He referred two other NBA general managers -- Denver's Kiki Vandeweghe and Minnesota's Kevin McHale -- to the good doctor. ``You can take Red Auerbach, Jerry West, Phil Jackson,'' Ainge once proclaimed. ``I'd take Jon Niednagel.''

Another longtime proponent is Terry Donahue, although he did not hire Niednagel to evaluate players during his tenure as 49ers general manager.

``Terry was reluctant to have involvement with me because of the people there and their desire to call the shots,'' Niednagel said. ``I helped him with some of the people he was interfacing with in management or the coaches.''

Donahue did not respond to an interview request for this story, but his testimonial is on Niednagel's Web site: ``I've found the information to be absolutely fascinating, almost scary, because it's so correct.''

Niednagel is so attuned to the manifestations of each type that he claims he doesn't need personal contact to determine an athlete's brain type. Here are a few of his evaluations, culled from stories and interviews over the years:

Ryan Leaf is an ESTJ, one of the worst brain types for quarterbacks. Scott Mitchell is also an ESTJ.

Cincinnati quarterback Carson Palmer, an ISFJ and the top pick in the '03 draft, will never be a great player because of the poor physical response to pressure. Niednagel believes Palmer's ideal sport is bowling.

Get Randy Johnson early or don't get him at all. Johnson is the rare INTJ -- as are Phil Jackson and Tony La Russa -- which means he tends to be mechanical early in big games but relaxes in the middle innings.

There's an ideal type for basketball players (ISTP) that's shared by Michael Jordan, Jerry West, Larry Bird and Shaquille O'Neal.

Niednagel's critics point out that his Web site is light on science and heavy on propaganda: It makes no mention of erroneous evaluations. Then again, by claiming that 35 percent of performance is based on nurture and not brain type, Niednagel has a built-in out. He can never be proved wrong.

``Brain-typing is so ill-defined,'' Sandbek said. ``If he says you're this and this and this, there's no way to disprove it. There is no independent means of verification. He can say anything he wants.

``In the scientific community, the typology of Jung has been totally discredited. Myers-Briggs has been discredited.''

Try telling that to the San Diego Chargers.

These athletes and celebrities share the same brain types, based on four pairs of psychological traits. More on brain types (http://www.kansascity.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/football/nfl/san_francisco_49ers/11431193.htm)

JOE MONTANA AND CLINT EASTWOOD
Either one could make your day.

MICHAEL JORDAN AND NORMAN SCHWARZKOPF
Their mantra: Follow me to victory.

TIGER WOODS AND RICHARD CHAMBERLAIN
Major victories -- and majorly long miniseries.

BARRY BONDS AND BRITNEY SPEARS
This one pretty much defies description.

_________________________________________________________
http://www.kansascity.com/images/mercurynews/mercurynews/11433/130716620642.jpg
I found this very interesting.
It make sense, but i'd like to know who prevailed despite an incompatible personality type.
Does anyone here know theirs? I'm INTJ
here's a link for the test: http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp

Count Zarth
04-20-2005, 04:09 AM
I just took the test. Apparently I'm Randy Johnson - INTJ- or Introverted Intuitive Thinking Judging.

"Mastermind Rational" :D

"Masterminds will adopt ideas only if they are useful" - yup, that's me.

Count Zarth
04-20-2005, 04:13 AM
Bahahahaha! ROFL

Personal relationships, particularly romantic ones, can be the INTJ's Achilles heel. While they are capable of caring deeply for others (usually a select few), and are willing to spend a great deal of time and effort on a relationship, the knowledge and self-confidence that make them so successful in other areas can suddenly abandon or mislead them in interpersonal situations.

This happens in part because many INTJs do not readily grasp the social rituals; for instance, they tend to have little patience and less understanding of such things as small talk and flirtation (which most types consider half the fun of a relationship). To complicate matters, INTJs are usually extremely private people, and can often be naturally impassive as well, which makes them easy to misread and misunderstand. Perhaps the most fundamental problem, however, is that INTJs really want people to make sense. :-) This sometimes results in a peculiar naivete', paralleling that of many Fs -- only instead of expecting inexhaustible affection and empathy from a romantic relationship, the INTJ will expect inexhaustible reasonability and directness.

Probably the strongest INTJ assets in the interpersonal area are their intuitive abilities and their willingness to "work at" a relationship. Although as Ts they do not always have the kind of natural empathy that many Fs do, the Intuitive function can often act as a good substitute by synthesizing the probable meanings behind such things as tone of voice, turn of phrase, and facial expression. This ability can then be honed and directed by consistent, repeated efforts to understand and support those they care about, and those relationships which ultimately do become established with an INTJ tend to be characterized by their robustness, stability, and good communications.

Count Zarth
04-20-2005, 04:15 AM
Famous INTJs:

Dan Aykroyd (The Blues Brothers)
Susan B. Anthony
Arthur Ashe, tennis champion
Augustus Caesar (Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus)
Jane Austen (Pride and Prejudice)
William J. Bennett, "drug czar"
William F. Buckley, Jr.
Raymond Burr (Perry Mason, Ironsides)
Chevy Chase (Cornelius Crane) (Fletch)
Phil Donahue
Michael Dukakis, governor of Mass., 1988 U.S. Dem. pres. candidate
Greg Gumbel, television sportscaster
Hannibal, Carthaginian military leader
Veronica Hamel (Hill Street Blues)
Angela Lansbury (Murder, She Wrote)
Orel Leonard Hershiser, IV
Peter Jennings
Charles Everett Koop
Ivan Lendl
C. S. Lewis (The Chronicles of Narnia)
Joan Lunden
Edwin Moses, U.S. olympian (hurdles)
Martina Navratilova
Charles Rangel, U. S. Representative, D-N.Y.
Pernell Roberts (Bonanza)
Arnold Schwarzenegger, Governor of California - :D
Josephine Tey (Elizabeth Mackintosh), mystery writer (Brat Farrar)
Rudy Giuliani, former New York City mayor
Donald Rumsfeld, US Secretary of Defense
General Colin Powell, US Secretary of State
Lance Armstrong
Richard Gere (Pretty Woman)
Katie Couric

U.S. Presidents:
Chester A. Arthur
Calvin Coolidge
Thomas Jefferson
John F. Kennedy
James K. Polk
Woodrow Wilson

Fictional:

Cassius (Julius Caesar)
Mr. Darcy (Pride and Prejudice)
Gandalf the Grey (J. R. R. Tolkein's Middle Earth books) - HELL YES
Hannibal Lecter (Silence of the Lambs)
Professor Moriarty, Sherlock Holmes' nemesis
Ensign Ro (Star Trek--the Next Generation) - ROFL
Rosencrantz and Guildenstern (Hamlet)
George Smiley, John le Carre's master spy
Clarice Starling (Silence of the Lambs)

Nightfyre
04-20-2005, 04:58 AM
Evidently I am a field marshall. I should join the military. Bonaparte, General Norman Schwarzkopf, and General George C Marshall were all ENTJs...

Nightfyre
04-20-2005, 05:11 AM
Wow... So true...
ENTJs are decisive. They see what needs to be done, and frequently assign roles to their fellows. Few other types can equal their ability to remain resolute in conflict, sending the valiant (and often leading the charge) into the mouth of hell. When challenged, the ENTJ may by reflex become argumentative. Alternatively (s)he may unleash an icy gaze that serves notice: the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with.

htismaqe
04-20-2005, 05:25 AM
Hmmm...I'm an ESTP.

ExtremeChief
04-20-2005, 05:29 AM
ESFJ


pretty close description I guess

Bob Dole
04-20-2005, 05:32 AM
Hmmm...I'm an ESTP.

Too bad you've got a noodle for an arm.

the Talking Can
04-20-2005, 05:35 AM
Any GM that would listen to a "brain typologist" deserves genital mutilation.

Nightfyre
04-20-2005, 05:39 AM
So far that makes:
gochiefs a pal
rufus a suitemate
extreme an enigma...

Nightfyre
04-20-2005, 05:39 AM
Any GM that would listen to a "brain typologist" deserves genital mutilation.
Not really if you think about it. The test determines how you act under pressure, as a leader, etc...

the Talking Can
04-20-2005, 05:41 AM
Not really if you think about it. The test determines how you act under pressure, as a leader, etc...

the test is bullshit

Nightfyre
04-20-2005, 05:43 AM
the test is bullshit
It nailed my personality down...

edit: take the test TC...

Pants
04-20-2005, 05:45 AM
Not really if you think about it. The test determines how you act under pressure, as a leader, etc...

That test is bullshit. On a lot of those questions I was thinking to myslef that I could go either way or even both ways depending on the situation. My "profile" was pretty much opposite of what I am, save for few parts which contradicted each other (like being both good at math and languages).

Nightfyre
04-20-2005, 05:46 AM
That test is bullshit. On a lot of those questions I was thinking to myslef that I could go either way or even both ways depending on the situation. My "profile" was pretty much opposite of what I am, save for few parts which contradicted each other (like being both good at math and languages).
you can be both good at math and languages...

Pants
04-20-2005, 05:47 AM
It nailed my personality down...

edit: take the test TC...

Are you saying it matched it to the tee? All the personality tests, psychological profiles type shit are designed to match some parts to all the groups IMO.

Nightfyre
04-20-2005, 05:48 AM
see? look at how reflexively i argue!

Nightfyre
04-20-2005, 05:48 AM
Are you saying it matched it to the tee? All the personality tests, psychological profiles type shit are designed to match some parts to all the groups IMO.
Nope, it pretty much matched me to a tee....

Count Zarth
04-20-2005, 05:50 AM
This test is ****ING AWESOME! I AM GANDALF THE GREY AND I CAN'T GET LAID!

Pants
04-20-2005, 05:51 AM
you can be both good at math and languages...

Math = right brain hemisphere
Language = left brain hemisphere

Completely opposite mind sets. While it's true that some people are good at both (rare), generally, right hemispheres dominate in men - i.e. better depth perception and logic (math), left dominate in women - i.e. better language skills, more sensitive to the surroundings/others' feelings. I read a bunch of shit on this during the summer (at work) so I'm not completelly clueless.

Nightfyre
04-20-2005, 05:54 AM
Math = right brain hemisphere
Language = left brain hemisphere

Completely opposite mind sets, while it's true that some people are good at both (rare). Generally, right hemispheres dominate in men - i.e. better depth perception and logic (math), left dominate in women - i.e. better language skills, more sensitive to the surroundings/others' feelings. I read a bunch of shit on this during the summer (at work) so I'm not completelly clueless.
I have a tendency to shift from left to right hemisphere very quickly, according to the shrink i visited like 5x. Its possible. I dunno.

Nightfyre
04-20-2005, 05:54 AM
This test is ****ING AWESOME! I AM GANDALF THE GREY AND I CAN'T GET LAID!
Just like all my Pals...

Pants
04-20-2005, 05:58 AM
I have a tendency to shift from left to right hemisphere very quickly, according to the shrink i visited like 5x. Its possible. I dunno.

That's something very different. It means you're smart. One side of your brainn is dominant over the other, that's a fact. Having two sides as equals would be really ****ed up (i.e. having two consciousnesses - insanity). They had tests set up that showed how a lawyer's left side (right being dominant) actually wanted him to be a racedriver, but since it was subconscious, he never knew.

Nightfyre
04-20-2005, 06:01 AM
i.e. having two consciousnesses - insanity)
This explains much....

Bob Dole
04-20-2005, 06:04 AM
I just took the test. Apparently I'm Randy Johnson - INTJ- or Introverted Intuitive Thinking Judging.

Proof enough right there that the quiz is bullshit.

Nightfyre
04-20-2005, 06:05 AM
Proof enough right there that the quiz is bullshit.
Now now! It does note that gochiefs cant get laid....

IA_Chiefs_fan
04-20-2005, 06:36 AM
Extraverted Sensing Thinking Judging
by Joe Butt
Profile: ESTJ
Revision: 3.0
Date of Revision: 26 Feb 2005


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Every right-minded man has a philosophy of life, whether he knows it or not. Hidden away in his mind are certain governing principles, whether he formulates them in words or not, which govern his life. Surely his ideal ought to be to contribute all that he can, however little it may be, whether of money or service, to human progress.
--John D. Rockefeller, Random Reminiscences of Men and Events
ESTJs thrive on order and continuity. Being extraverted, their focus involves organization of people, which translates into supervision. While ENTJs enjoy organizing and mobilizing people according to their own theories and tactically based agendas, ESTJs are content to enforce "the rules," often dictated by tradition or handed down from a higher authority.

ESTJs are joiners. They seek out like-minded companions in clubs, civic groups, churches and other service organizations. The need for belonging is woven into the fiber of SJs. The family likewise is a central focus for ESTJs, and attendance at such events as weddings, funerals and family reunions is obligatory.

Tradition is important to the ESTJ. Holidays, birthdays and other annual celebrations are remembered and observed often religiously by this type. The ESTJ is inclined to seek out his roots, to trace the family heritage back to honored ancestors both for a sense of family respectability and for a sense of security and belonging.

Service, the tangible expression of responsibility, is another key focus for ESTJs. They love to provide and to receive good service. The ESTJ merchant who provides dependable service has done much to enhance her self image.

ESTJs have an acute sense for orthodoxy. Much of their evaluation of persons and activities reflects their strong sense of what is "normal" and what isn't. ESTJ humor is frequently centered around something or someone being off center or behaving abnormally.

ESTJs promote the work ethic. Power, position and prestige should be worked for and earned. Laziness is rarely viewed with ambivalence nor benevolence by this type.

Some men can make decisions and some cannot. Some men fret and delay under criticism. I used to have a saying1 that applies here, and I note that some people have picked it up.
--Harry S. Truman, Mr. Citizen
1"If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."
The ESTJ is outspoken, a person of principles, which are readily expressed. The ESTJ is not afraid to stand up for what she believes is right even in the face of overwhelming odds. ESTJs are able to make the tough calls.

Occupations attracting ESTJs include teaching, coaching, banking, political office, and management at all levels.

Functional Analysis:

Extraverted Thinking
ESTJs are very good at making impersonal decisions quickly, and standing by those decisions. They live in their Extraverted Thinking functioning, thus, their prime directive is in discovering that which is true and logical in the events of the real world. Circumstances calling for product invite the ESTJ to supervise or direct other individuals toward production and productivity. Extraverts are attracted to the "object," the external things and people in observable reality. This bent translates into a natural interest in goods and material objects.

Introverted Sensing
The secondary Introverted Sensing is like that of the ISTJ, but not as strong. Si provides practical form and concept data to the Te head, however, form is not the overriding principle, especially if Thinking has already decided. In times of need, ESTJs are tempted to overlook even necessary information if its absence impedes closure. Secondary sensing sometimes translates into interest in sports. The persistence of primary Thinking gives many ESTJs a desire for discipline and regimen which can be beneficial in skills development in the arena.

Extraverted iNtuition
As the ESTJ matures, and as situations arise which call for suspension of criticism, Extraverted iNtuition is allowed to play. Under the leadership of the Te function, iNtuition gravitates toward the discovery of broad categories which at worst amount to stereotypes. Those ESTJs who hone their Ne abilities may find success in academia. (I've encountered ESTJs whose Ne overshadows the auxiliary Si function--for whatever reason--to the extent that there is an appearance of NT radical geekism.)

Introverted Feeling
This function may rarely be expressed. ESTJs who have cultivated, or have been blessed with, a "natural indirect expression of good will by inference," have great prospects of developing genuine friendships (as opposed to ESTJs who merely act out the behavior of Extraverted Feeling). Such a weak, introverted function is best observed in facial expression, eye contact, body language, and verbally only by implication.


Famous ESTJs:
Simon Peter (Christ's disciple)
John Heywood (c.1497-c.1580, collector of English colloquialisms)


U.S. Presidents:
James Monroe
Andrew Jackson
William Henry "Tippecanoe" Harrison
Franklin Pierce
Grover Cleveland
Harry S. Truman
Lyndon B. Johnson
George W. Bush
Carrie Nation
Elliot Ness
John D. Rockefeller
Bette Davis
Robert A. Taft (U.S. senator, son of Pres. Wm. H. Taft)
Sam Walton, owner and founder of WalMart stores
Barbara Stanwyck
Rev. Billy Graham
Dale Bumpers (U.S. Senator, D-Arkansas)
Phil Fulmer, head football coach of the U. Tenn Vols
Pat Head Summit, head basketball coach of the Lady Vols
Bill Frist, M.D. (U.S. Senate Majority Leader)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It pretty much pegged me. I say it is NOT BS.

Kerberos
04-20-2005, 06:37 AM
DAMMIT ... :cuss:

I am an ESTP and was bound for GREATNESS in football if it wasn't for my DAMN injury that held me back!

:banghead:




.

Nightfyre
04-20-2005, 06:40 AM
Extraverted Sensing Thinking Judging
by Joe Butt
Profile: ESTJ
Revision: 3.0
Date of Revision: 26 Feb 2005


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Every right-minded man has a philosophy of life, whether he knows it or not. Hidden away in his mind are certain governing principles, whether he formulates them in words or not, which govern his life. Surely his ideal ought to be to contribute all that he can, however little it may be, whether of money or service, to human progress.
--John D. Rockefeller, Random Reminiscences of Men and Events
ESTJs thrive on order and continuity. Being extraverted, their focus involves organization of people, which translates into supervision. While ENTJs enjoy organizing and mobilizing people according to their own theories and tactically based agendas, ESTJs are content to enforce "the rules," often dictated by tradition or handed down from a higher authority.

ESTJs are joiners. They seek out like-minded companions in clubs, civic groups, churches and other service organizations. The need for belonging is woven into the fiber of SJs. The family likewise is a central focus for ESTJs, and attendance at such events as weddings, funerals and family reunions is obligatory.

Tradition is important to the ESTJ. Holidays, birthdays and other annual celebrations are remembered and observed often religiously by this type. The ESTJ is inclined to seek out his roots, to trace the family heritage back to honored ancestors both for a sense of family respectability and for a sense of security and belonging.

Service, the tangible expression of responsibility, is another key focus for ESTJs. They love to provide and to receive good service. The ESTJ merchant who provides dependable service has done much to enhance her self image.

ESTJs have an acute sense for orthodoxy. Much of their evaluation of persons and activities reflects their strong sense of what is "normal" and what isn't. ESTJ humor is frequently centered around something or someone being off center or behaving abnormally.

ESTJs promote the work ethic. Power, position and prestige should be worked for and earned. Laziness is rarely viewed with ambivalence nor benevolence by this type.

Some men can make decisions and some cannot. Some men fret and delay under criticism. I used to have a saying1 that applies here, and I note that some people have picked it up.
--Harry S. Truman, Mr. Citizen
1"If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."
The ESTJ is outspoken, a person of principles, which are readily expressed. The ESTJ is not afraid to stand up for what she believes is right even in the face of overwhelming odds. ESTJs are able to make the tough calls.

Occupations attracting ESTJs include teaching, coaching, banking, political office, and management at all levels.

Functional Analysis:

Extraverted Thinking
ESTJs are very good at making impersonal decisions quickly, and standing by those decisions. They live in their Extraverted Thinking functioning, thus, their prime directive is in discovering that which is true and logical in the events of the real world. Circumstances calling for product invite the ESTJ to supervise or direct other individuals toward production and productivity. Extraverts are attracted to the "object," the external things and people in observable reality. This bent translates into a natural interest in goods and material objects.

Introverted Sensing
The secondary Introverted Sensing is like that of the ISTJ, but not as strong. Si provides practical form and concept data to the Te head, however, form is not the overriding principle, especially if Thinking has already decided. In times of need, ESTJs are tempted to overlook even necessary information if its absence impedes closure. Secondary sensing sometimes translates into interest in sports. The persistence of primary Thinking gives many ESTJs a desire for discipline and regimen which can be beneficial in skills development in the arena.

Extraverted iNtuition
As the ESTJ matures, and as situations arise which call for suspension of criticism, Extraverted iNtuition is allowed to play. Under the leadership of the Te function, iNtuition gravitates toward the discovery of broad categories which at worst amount to stereotypes. Those ESTJs who hone their Ne abilities may find success in academia. (I've encountered ESTJs whose Ne overshadows the auxiliary Si function--for whatever reason--to the extent that there is an appearance of NT radical geekism.)

Introverted Feeling
This function may rarely be expressed. ESTJs who have cultivated, or have been blessed with, a "natural indirect expression of good will by inference," have great prospects of developing genuine friendships (as opposed to ESTJs who merely act out the behavior of Extraverted Feeling). Such a weak, introverted function is best observed in facial expression, eye contact, body language, and verbally only by implication.


Famous ESTJs:
Simon Peter (Christ's disciple)
John Heywood (c.1497-c.1580, collector of English colloquialisms)


U.S. Presidents:
James Monroe
Andrew Jackson
William Henry "Tippecanoe" Harrison
Franklin Pierce
Grover Cleveland
Harry S. Truman
Lyndon B. Johnson
George W. Bush
Carrie Nation
Elliot Ness
John D. Rockefeller
Bette Davis
Robert A. Taft (U.S. senator, son of Pres. Wm. H. Taft)
Sam Walton, owner and founder of WalMart stores
Barbara Stanwyck
Rev. Billy Graham
Dale Bumpers (U.S. Senator, D-Arkansas)
Phil Fulmer, head football coach of the U. Tenn Vols
Pat Head Summit, head basketball coach of the Lady Vols
Bill Frist, M.D. (U.S. Senate Majority Leader)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It pretty much pegged me. I say it is NOT BS.
That makes you my....



neighbor.

Nightfyre
04-20-2005, 06:42 AM
DAMMIT ... :cuss:

I am an ESTP and was bound for GREATNESS in football if it wasn't for my DAMN injury that held me back!

:banghead:


suitemate.

Baby Lee
04-20-2005, 07:08 AM
Your Type is
ENTJ
Extroverted Intuitive Thinking Judging
Strength of the preferences %
22 12 38 78


ENTJ type description by D.Keirsey
ENTJ type description by J. Butt



Qualitative analysis of your type formula

You are:
slightly expressed extrovert

slightly expressed intuitive personality

moderately expressed thinking personality

very expressed judging personality

htismaqe
04-20-2005, 07:33 AM
Too bad you've got a noodle for an arm.

And a 100-lb. beachball for a gut. :D

Nightfyre
04-20-2005, 07:35 AM
Your Type is
ENTJ
Extroverted Intuitive Thinking Judging
Strength of the preferences %
22 12 38 78


ENTJ type description by D.Keirsey
ENTJ type description by J. Butt



Qualitative analysis of your type formula

You are:
slightly expressed extrovert

slightly expressed intuitive personality

moderately expressed thinking personality

very expressed judging personality
I think its funny BL, we match on the last two percentage wise...

Count Zarth
04-20-2005, 07:37 AM
And a 100-lb. beachball for a gut. :D

David Wells.

Bob Dole
04-20-2005, 07:46 AM
you can be both good at math and languages...

Not typically.

ENTP here, fwiw.

InChiefsHell
04-20-2005, 07:47 AM
That test is bullshit. On a lot of those questions I was thinking to myslef that I could go either way or even both ways depending on the situation. My "profile" was pretty much opposite of what I am, save for few parts which contradicted each other (like being both good at math and languages).

Agreed, I got labeled ENFJ Extroverted, Intuitive, Feeling, Judgemental. (78%,12%,12%,78%) While that doesn't seem to be much of a contradiction, I did not like the way many of the questions were asked. I kept wanting an "It Depends" option.

Famous ENFJs

David, King of Israel
U.S. Presidents:
Abraham Lincoln
Ronald Reagan

William Cullen Bryant, poet
Abraham Maslow, psychologist and proponent of self-actualization
Ross Perot
Sean Connery
Elizabeth Dole
Francois Mitterand
Dick Van Dyke
Andy Griffith
James Garner
William Aramony, former president of United Way
Gene Hackman (Superman, Antz)
Dennis Hopper (Speed)
Brenda Vaccaro
Craig T. Nelson (Coach)
Diane Sawyer (Good Morning America)
Randy Quaid (Bye Bye, Love; Independence Day)
Tommy Lee Jones (The Fugitive)
Kirstie Alley ("Cheers," Look Who's Talking movies)
Michael Jordan, NBA basketball player
Johnny Depp (Pirates of the Caribbean)
Oprah Winfrey
Bob Saget America's Funniest Home Videos, Full House
Julia Louis-Dreyfus ("Seinfeld")
Ben Stiller (The Royal Tenenbaums)
Peyton Manning, Indianapolis Colts quarterback
Matthew McConaughey (The Wedding Planner)
Pete Sampras, Tennis Champion
Lauren Graham ("Gilmore Girls")
Ben Affleck (The Sum Of All Fears)
John Cusack (High Fidelity)
Fictional ENFJs:

Joe Hackett, Wings

Baby Lee
04-20-2005, 07:50 AM
:homer: - mmmm. . . Lauren Graham.

Nightfyre
04-20-2005, 07:56 AM
Not typically.

ENTP here, fwiw.
whaddya want? My ctbs scores? My SATs? ACT? Geez...

milkman
04-20-2005, 08:04 AM
I'm an ISTJ


Introverted Sensing Thinking Judging
by Joe Butt
Profile: ISTJ
Revision: 3.0
Date of Revision: 27 Feb 2005


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"It is in keeping with tradition throughout our history that I should express simply and directly the opinions which I hold concerning some of the matters of present importance." --Herbert Hoover, Inaugural Address, Monday, March 4, 1929.
ISTJs are often called inspectors. They have a keen sense of right and wrong, especially in their area of interest and/or responsibility. They are noted for devotion to duty. Punctuality is a watchword of the ISTJ. The secretary, clerk, or business(wo)man by whom others set their clocks is likely to be an ISTJ.

As do other Introverted Thinkers, ISTJs often give the initial impression of being aloof and perhaps somewhat cold. Effusive expression of emotional warmth is not something that ISTJs do without considerable energy loss.

ISTJs are most at home with "just the facts, Ma'am." They seem to perform at highest efficiency when employing a step-by-step approach. Once a new procedure has proven itself (i.e., has been shown "to work,") the ISTJ can be depended upon to carry it through, even at the expense of their own health.

ISTJs are easily frustrated by the inconsistencies of others, especially when the second parties don't keep their commitments. But they usually keep their feelings to themselves unless they are asked. And when asked, they don't mince words. Truth wins out over tact. The grim determination of the ISTJ vindicates itself in officiation of sports events, judiciary functions, or an other situation which requires making tough calls and sticking to them.

His SJ orientation draws the ISTJ into the service of established institutions. Home, social clubs, government, schools, the military, churches -- these are the bastions of the SJ. "We've always done it this way" is often reason enough for many ISTJs. Threats to time-honored traditions or established organizations (e.g., a "run" on the bank) are the undoing of SJs, and are to be fought at all costs.

Functional Analysis

Introverted Sensing
Si is oriented toward the world of forms, essences, generics. Time is such a form, a quantifiable essense of exactitude, the standard to which external events are held. For both of the IS_J types, the sense of propriety comes from the clear definition of these internal forms. An apple "should" have certain qualities, against which all apples are evaluated. A "proper" chair has four legs, (and other qualities this poor INTP can only guess). Jung viewed introverted sensing as something of an oxymoron, in that the natural direction of senses is outward toward the object, rather than inward and away from it. One has the sense that Introverted Sensors are drawn more to the measure of the concept of the perceived object than to the experience of that perception.

Extraverted Thinking
The moderation of the Te function serves to socialize the expression of these forms. When the Si function is ready to relinquish the data, Te may speak. Otherwise, silence is golden. ISTJs seem to have a few favorite forms (the tried and true) which may serve for most occasions. My ISTJ dad woke me every morning with the same phrase for more years than I care to remember. Asked, "How are you?" he answered with the same stock phrase. ("As well as my age and habits will permit" was used for about two decades.) "It's a good form, a sound form--it's the form for me."

Introverted Feeling
Since Fi is turned inward, it is rarely expressed. Perhaps this enables the ISTJ to resolutely accept that "we are all doomed." When told that Lazarus had died, Thomas said, "Let us go and die with him." (He could just as well have said something like, "I knew this was bound to happen sooner or later.") Only in times of great distress is the Introverted Feeling expressed (as I witnessed in my dad when a neighbor's son was killed in a hunting accident). Otherwise, feeling is inferred, or expressed nonverbally, through eye contact, or an encouraging smile.

Extraverted iNtuition
The Ne function of an ISTJ does not serve her very well. It needs a lot of help. She was surprised, for example, to find that someone she had talked with only by phone had red hair, because she "didn't usually like" people with red hair! This inferior Ne seems to be a major source of, and a natural breeding ground for, stereotypes. Failure of the banking system is but one bogeyman which arises from the fear which feeds on the ISTJ's mistrust of real world possibilities. The shadow inhabiting the inferior Ne strikes at the precious forms and standards in the heart of the dominant Si function.

Famous ISTJs:
Thomas (Christ's disciple)

U.S. Presidents:
George Washington
Andrew Johnson
Benjamin Harrison
Herbert Hoover
George H. W. Bush
Paul Coverdale (U.S. Senator, R-GA)
Jackie Joyner-Kersee (U.S. Olympic athlete)
Evander Holyfield, heavyweight boxing champion


Fictional ISTJs:
Joe Friday
Mr. Martin (hero of James Thurber's Sitting in the Catbird Seat)
Eeyore (Winnie the Pooh)
Fred Mertz (I Love Lucy)
Puddleglum, the marshwiggle (Chronicles of Narnia) Cliff (Cheers)

How exactly are Joe Friday and Eeyore similiar?

Bob Dole
04-20-2005, 08:14 AM
whaddya want? My ctbs scores? My SATs? ACT? Geez...

Bob Dole isn't saying that you aren't. Bob Dole is simply stating that it is atypical.

Nightfyre
04-20-2005, 08:16 AM
Bob Dole isn't saying that you aren't. Bob Dole is simply stating that it is atypical.i wonder if it is more typical in ambidextrous people.... im not fwiw.

Fire Me Boy!
04-20-2005, 08:40 AM
I'm an ENTJ... kind of weird how close this thing fits my personality type.



"I don't care to sit by the window on an airplane. If I can't control it, why look?"

ENTJs have a natural tendency to marshall and direct. This may be expressed with the charm and finesse of a world leader or with the insensitivity of a cult leader. The ENTJ requires little encouragement to make a plan. One ENTJ put it this way... "I make these little plans that really don't have any importance to anyone else, and then feel compelled to carry them out." While "compelled" may not describe ENTJs as a group, nevertheless the bent to plan creatively and to make those plans reality is a common theme for NJ types.

ENTJs are often "larger than life" in describing their projects or proposals. This ability may be expressed as salesmanship, story-telling facility or stand-up comedy. In combination with the natural propensity for filibuster, our hero can make it very difficult for the customer to decline.

TRADEMARK: -- "I'm really sorry you have to die." (I realize this is an overstatement. However, most Fs and other gentle souls usually chuckle knowingly at this description.)

ENTJs are decisive. They see what needs to be done, and frequently assign roles to their fellows. Few other types can equal their ability to remain resolute in conflict, sending the valiant (and often leading the charge) into the mouth of hell. When challenged, the ENTJ may by reflex become argumentative. Alternatively (s)he may unleash an icy gaze that serves notice: the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with.

HolyHandgernade
04-20-2005, 08:48 AM
You just got your brain type back, HH, now what are you going to do?

"I'm going to take over the world!"

Your Type is
INTJ
Introverted Intuitive Thinking Judging
Strength of the preferences %
11 25 38 56


INTJ type description by D.Keirsey

The Portrait of the Mastermind Rational (iNTj) RATIONAL
ARTISAN
IDEALIST
GUARDIAN

Copyrighted 1996-2004 Prometheus Nemesis Book Company


Of the four aspects of strategic analysis and definition, it is the contingency planning or entailment organizing role that reaches the highest development in Masterminds. Entailing or contingency planning is not an informative activity, rather it is a directive one in which the planner tells others what to do and in what order to do it. As the organizing capabilities the Masterminds increase so does their inclination to take charge of whatever is going on.

It is in their abilities that Masterminds differ from the other Rationals, while in most of their attitudes they are just like the others. However there is one attitude that sets them apart from other Rationals: they tend to be much more self-confident than the rest, having, for obscure reasons, developed a very strong will. They are rather rare, comprising no more than, say, one percent of the population. Being very judicious, decisions come naturally to them; indeed, they can hardly rest until they have things settled, decided, and set. They are the people who are able to formulate coherent and comprehensive contingency plans, hence contingency organizers or "entailers."

Masterminds will adopt ideas only if they are useful, which is to say if they work efficiently toward accomplishing the Mastermind's well-defined goals. Natural leaders, Masterminds are not at all eager to take command of projects or groups, preferring to stay in the background until others demonstrate their inability to lead. Once in charge, however, Masterminds are the supreme pragmatists, seeing reality as a crucible for refining their strategies for goal-directed action. In a sense, Masterminds approach reality as they would a giant chess board, always seeking strategies that have a high payoff, and always devising contingency plans in case of error or adversity. To the Mastermind, organizational structure and operational procedures are never arbitrary, never set in concrete, but are quite malleable and can be changed, improved, streamlined. In their drive for efficient action, Masterminds are the most open-minded of all the types. No idea is too far-fetched to be entertained-if it is useful. Masterminds are natural brainstormers, always open to new concepts and, in fact, aggressively seeking them. They are also alert to the consequences of applying new ideas or positions. Theories which cannot be made to work are quickly discarded by the Masterminds. On the other hand, Masterminds can be quite ruthless in implementing effective ideas, seldom counting personal cost in terms of time and energy.


INTJ type description by J. Butt and M.M. Heiss

Introverted iNtuitive Thinking Judging
by Marina Margaret Heiss
Profile: INTJ
Revision: 3.0
Date of Revision: 27 Feb 2005


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To outsiders, INTJs may appear to project an aura of "definiteness", of self-confidence. This self-confidence, sometimes mistaken for simple arrogance by the less decisive, is actually of a very specific rather than a general nature; its source lies in the specialized knowledge systems that most INTJs start building at an early age. When it comes to their own areas of expertise -- and INTJs can have several -- they will be able to tell you almost immediately whether or not they can help you, and if so, how. INTJs know what they know, and perhaps still more importantly, they know what they don't know.

INTJs are perfectionists, with a seemingly endless capacity for improving upon anything that takes their interest. What prevents them from becoming chronically bogged down in this pursuit of perfection is the pragmatism so characteristic of the type: INTJs apply (often ruthlessly) the criterion "Does it work?" to everything from their own research efforts to the prevailing social norms. This in turn produces an unusual independence of mind, freeing the INTJ from the constraints of authority, convention, or sentiment for its own sake.

INTJs are known as the "Systems Builders" of the types, perhaps in part because they possess the unusual trait combination of imagination and reliability. Whatever system an INTJ happens to be working on is for them the equivalent of a moral cause to an INFJ; both perfectionism and disregard for authority may come into play, as INTJs can be unsparing of both themselves and the others on the project. Anyone considered to be "slacking," including superiors, will lose their respect -- and will generally be made aware of this; INTJs have also been known to take it upon themselves to implement critical decisions without consulting their supervisors or co-workers. On the other hand, they do tend to be scrupulous and even-handed about recognizing the individual contributions that have gone into a project, and have a gift for seizing opportunities which others might not even notice.

In the broadest terms, what INTJs "do" tends to be what they "know". Typical INTJ career choices are in the sciences and engineering, but they can be found wherever a combination of intellect and incisiveness are required (e.g., law, some areas of academia). INTJs can rise to management positions when they are willing to invest time in marketing their abilities as well as enhancing them, and (whether for the sake of ambition or the desire for privacy) many also find it useful to learn to simulate some degree of surface conformism in order to mask their inherent unconventionality.

Personal relationships, particularly romantic ones, can be the INTJ's Achilles heel. While they are capable of caring deeply for others (usually a select few), and are willing to spend a great deal of time and effort on a relationship, the knowledge and self-confidence that make them so successful in other areas can suddenly abandon or mislead them in interpersonal situations.

This happens in part because many INTJs do not readily grasp the social rituals; for instance, they tend to have little patience and less understanding of such things as small talk and flirtation (which most types consider half the fun of a relationship). To complicate matters, INTJs are usually extremely private people, and can often be naturally impassive as well, which makes them easy to misread and misunderstand. Perhaps the most fundamental problem, however, is that INTJs really want people to make sense. :-) This sometimes results in a peculiar naivete', paralleling that of many Fs -- only instead of expecting inexhaustible affection and empathy from a romantic relationship, the INTJ will expect inexhaustible reasonability and directness.

Probably the strongest INTJ assets in the interpersonal area are their intuitive abilities and their willingness to "work at" a relationship. Although as Ts they do not always have the kind of natural empathy that many Fs do, the Intuitive function can often act as a good substitute by synthesizing the probable meanings behind such things as tone of voice, turn of phrase, and facial expression. This ability can then be honed and directed by consistent, repeated efforts to understand and support those they care about, and those relationships which ultimately do become established with an INTJ tend to be characterized by their robustness, stability, and good communications.


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Functional Analysis
by Joe Butt

Introverted iNtuition
INTJs are idea people. Anything is possible; everything is negotiable. Whatever the outer circumstances, INTJs are ever perceiving inner pattern-forms and using real-world materials to operationalize them. Others may see what is and wonder why; INTJs see what might be and say "Why not?!" Paradoxes, antinomies, and other contradictory phenomena aptly express these intuitors' amusement at those whom they feel may be taking a particular view of reality too seriously. INTJs enjoy developing unique solutions to complex problems.

Extraverted Thinking
Thinking in this auxiliary role is a workhorse. Closure is the payoff for efforts expended. Evaluation begs diagnosis; product drives process. As they come to light, Thinking tends, protects, affirms and directs iNtuition's offspring, fully equipping them for fulfilling and useful lives. A faithful pedagogue, Thinking argues not so much on its own behalf, but in defense of its charges. And through this process these impressionable ideas take on the likeness of their master.

Introverted Feeling
Feeling has a modest inner room, two doors down from the Most Imminent iNtuition. It doesn't get out much, but lends its influence on behalf of causes which are Good and Worthy and Humane. We may catch a glimpse of it in the unspoken attitude of good will, or the gracious smile or nod. Some question the existence of Feeling in this type, yet its unseen balance to Thinking is a cardinal dimension in the full measure of the INTJ's soul.

Extraverted Sensing
Sensing serves with a good will, or not at all. As other inferior functions, it has only a rudimentary awareness of context, amount or degree. Thus INTJs sweat the details or, at times, omit them. "I've made up my mind, don't confuse me with the facts" could well have been said by an INTJ on a mission. Sensing's extraverted attitude is evident in this type's bent to savor sensations rather than to merely categorize them. Indiscretions of indulgence are likely an expression of the unconscious vengeance of the inferior.

Famous INTJs:
Dan Aykroyd (The Blues Brothers)
Susan B. Anthony
Arthur Ashe, tennis champion
Augustus Caesar (Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus)
Jane Austen (Pride and Prejudice)
William J. Bennett, "drug czar"
William F. Buckley, Jr.
Raymond Burr (Perry Mason, Ironsides)
Chevy Chase (Cornelius Crane) (Fletch)
Phil Donahue
Michael Dukakis, governor of Mass., 1988 U.S. Dem. pres. candidate
Greg Gumbel, television sportscaster
Hannibal, Carthaginian military leader
Veronica Hamel (Hill Street Blues)
Angela Lansbury (Murder, She Wrote)
Orel Leonard Hershiser, IV
Peter Jennings
Charles Everett Koop
Ivan Lendl
C. S. Lewis (The Chronicles of Narnia)
Joan Lunden
Edwin Moses, U.S. olympian (hurdles)
Martina Navratilova
Charles Rangel, U. S. Representative, D-N.Y.
Pernell Roberts (Bonanza)
Arnold Schwarzenegger, Governor of California
Josephine Tey (Elizabeth Mackintosh), mystery writer (Brat Farrar)
Rudy Giuliani, former New York City mayor
Donald Rumsfeld, US Secretary of Defense
General Colin Powell, US Secretary of State
Lance Armstrong
Richard Gere (Pretty Woman)
Katie Couric


U.S. Presidents:
Chester A. Arthur
Calvin Coolidge
Thomas Jefferson
John F. Kennedy
James K. Polk
Woodrow Wilson

Fictional:
Cassius (Julius Caesar)
Mr. Darcy (Pride and Prejudice)
Gandalf the Grey (J. R. R. Tolkein's Middle Earth books)
Hannibal Lecter (Silence of the Lambs)
Professor Moriarty, Sherlock Holmes' nemesis
Ensign Ro (Star Trek--the Next Generation)
Rosencrantz and Guildenstern (Hamlet)
George Smiley, John le Carre's master spy
Clarice Starling (Silence of the Lambs)



Qualitative analysis of your type formula

You are:
slightly expressed introvert

moderately expressed intuitive personality

moderately expressed thinking personality

moderately expressed judging personality