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View Full Version : Do the Surtain Trade after our First Round Pick


Hoover
04-20-2005, 10:12 AM
I know Carl is telling Miami it has to be done before the draft because Surtain has to agree to a deal. But didn't that already happen?

All I really want is Surtain. But that said I would like to see what are options are. Let the first two rounds play out and see who is there. I really think the Chiefs are going to trade down in the first is unless they can get DJ or Rogers. If those two are gone, and we can move down to the bottom third of round one and pick up another 3rd round pick, I think the Chiefs could still get a good player. That extra 3rd could be used for Sutain, or the 2nd round pick if we are forced to do so.

I like having options. Trading before the draft would be fine, but I would rather see what my options are, which is a bit risky.

TRR
04-20-2005, 10:19 AM
I'm not sure why Peterson thinks the Surtain deal is so much different than the Welbourn deal they pulled off during the draft last offseason.

It would be great to have Surtain in Red and Gold before the draft to re-adjust if need be, but I think it will come down to the very last minute.

At this point, I really don't care about Surtain anymore. Ty Law is still avaliable, and the talent that could be sitting at #15 is impressive.

The Bad Guy
04-20-2005, 10:28 AM
I'm not sure why Peterson thinks the Surtain deal is so much different than the Welbourn deal they pulled off during the draft last offseason.

It would be great to have Surtain in Red and Gold before the draft to re-adjust if need be, but I think it will come down to the very last minute.

At this point, I really don't care about Surtain anymore. Ty Law is still avaliable, and the talent that could be sitting at #15 is impressive.

If you don't care now, you'll care when the season starts.

We might have no choice to start a rookie corner, but starting a rookie corner isn't going to be the answer to our struggles.

The deal is different because Welbourn was already under contract for numerous years.

TRR
04-20-2005, 10:33 AM
If you don't care now, you'll care when the season starts.

We might have no choice to start a rookie corner, but starting a rookie corner isn't going to be the answer to our struggles.

The deal is different because Welbourn was already under contract for numerous years.

No I really won't care. A healthy Ty Law will solve our problems just as Surtain does. Except Law won't cost us a draft pick or two. Pac Man Jones could come in right now and be better than any of our CB's. Same goes for Carlos Rogers (who I want more than Law or Surtain). We need an upgrade at CB. Surtain isn't the only game in town.

The Surtain deal could get done during the draft. Peterson is trying to play hardball.

The Bad Guy
04-20-2005, 10:37 AM
No I really won't care. A healthy Ty Law will solve our problems just as Surtain does. Except Law won't cost us a draft pick or two. Pac Man Jones could come in right now and be better than any of our CB's. Same goes for Carlos Rogers (who I want more than Law or Surtain). We need an upgrade at CB. Surtain isn't the only game in town.

The Surtain deal could get done during the draft. Peterson is trying to play hardball.

Surtain is the only game in town without any issues.

Law is coming off foot surgery and regardless of what his health status is, he's going to cost a ton of money b/c of who his agents are.

Rogers is a rookie, and our pass defense won't get significantly better by starting a rookie. Rookie corners take their lumps harder than any other position.

Surtain is the safest bet. When you're pitiful on defense, you have to take the safest routes toward dramatically improving the defense.

TRR
04-20-2005, 10:43 AM
Surtain is the only game in town without any issues.

Law is coming off foot surgery and regardless of what his health status is, he's going to cost a ton of money b/c of who his agents are.

Rogers is a rookie, and our pass defense won't get significantly better by starting a rookie. Rookie corners take their lumps harder than any other position.

Surtain is the safest bet. When you're pitiful on defense, you have to take the safest routes toward dramatically improving the defense.

Surtain has issues as well. He is going to want a ton of money, requires a draft pick or two, and there has been mentions of a degenerating knee condition (I know...I know.)

I also disagree that are defense wouldn't get better with starting Carlos Rogers. This kid is as good as any CB coming out in a long time.

The Bad Guy
04-20-2005, 10:46 AM
Surtain has issues as well. He is going to want a ton of money, requires a draft pick or two, and there has been mentions of a degenerating knee condition (I know...I know.)

I also disagree that are defense wouldn't get better with starting Carlos Rogers. This kid is as good as any CB coming out in a long time.

Of course our defense would get better with Rogers. It would be better because as long as he has functional arms, has played the position, and can run, it would be an upgrade.

I don't consider his contract, or draft pick an issue. I consider health and experience.

I'm going to start a rumor right now on CP that Carlos Rogers has one leg longer than the other and we can see if he can takeoff like this degenerative knee condition for Surtain.

TRR
04-20-2005, 10:47 AM
Also, Peterson just said during his press conference that the Surtain deal doesn't have to happen before the draft. He said he would like to get it done before, but that doesn't neccesarily make the deal dead.

Peterson also said that they are also looking at another FA CB as well.

htismaqe
04-20-2005, 12:01 PM
Of course our defense would get better with Rogers. It would be better because as long as he has functional arms, has played the position, and can run, it would be an upgrade.

I don't consider his contract, or draft pick an issue. I consider health and experience.

I'm going to start a rumor right now on CP that Carlos Rogers has one leg longer than the other and we can see if he can takeoff like this degenerative knee condition for Surtain.

Come on Frank, we've been over this. Usually you're more reasonable than this.

The "knee" thing IS NOT A RUMOR that started here.

I posted it here after hearing it TWICE from a Miami Herald reporter on the radio. Myself and other have since posted links to Herald articles mentioning the same degenerative knee condition.

Whether or not he has a real condition is debatable. There was some speculation that the Dolphins started it a couple of years ago to lower his value during contract negotations.

But it DID NOT originate here nor is it completely unfounded.

jcroft
04-20-2005, 12:05 PM
I'm actually starting to believe that the contract actually ISN'T done. If that's the case, I don't think you can do it after our first round pick. If the contract is done, then sure, do it after the pick. Do it anytime. Just do it.

Hoover
04-20-2005, 12:14 PM
I think you could call Miami's bluff is you draft a CB in round one, then call then and offer a 4th this year, and start from there.

Line Judge
04-20-2005, 12:15 PM
This is from todays kcchiefs.com in an inteview with CP

Q: Putting the spotlight on cornerbacks, obviously among the veterans the guy in play is Patrick Surtain down in Miami. Update us if you can the situation with him. Have you been able to work out a deal with him?

PETERSON: No, were still talking, still negotiating, still trying to do something that makes sense contract-wise for the Kansas City Chiefs and it has to make sense for Patrick and his representative.

On the other side and thats what makes it a bit convoluted, complex transaction is that if we can get to that point then its convincing the Miami Dolphins what is the appropriate draft compensation for the rights to Patrick Surtain. Ive had continued conversations with them over the last few weeks. But I kind of figured from the beginning that it would take the pressure of the draft to see if we could do something.

Q: So, this is the something thats going to go down to Friday or Saturday if it happens at all.

PETERSON: Itll have to be before Saturday because of the complexity here. We can not trade for a player unless we have a contract in place that would fit our cap. So that necessitates that he would have to sign a contract with Miami and then we would trade that contract. His current contract would be too much for us cap-wise. Its about $6 million dollars and its about $8 _ million to them including his pro-rated signing bonus. Hes an expensive player, a very talented one couple of Pro Bowls. Hes a veteran corner that weve looked at closely for the last number of months.

Q: A deal will be done then by the time you get to your first round choice.

PETERSON: Itll have to be done. It will not be possible to do this during the draft. Theres just too many things to accomplish beginning with a signed contract.

jcroft
04-20-2005, 12:19 PM
I think you could call Miami's bluff is you draft a CB in round one, then call then and offer a 4th this year, and start from there.

I think so too, but only if the contract is basically in place before then.

skky man
04-20-2005, 12:20 PM
Bullshit! He's just hedging his stance and he and everyone else knows the chiefs need a corner and he knows the "D" he's put out there will not sell out tickets forever! I think he'll have somethings already in process. You can't tell me that Wilbourn didn't agree to keep his contract on draft day!

skky man
04-20-2005, 12:21 PM
I mean did agree to keep his contract on draft day!

jcroft
04-20-2005, 12:24 PM
Bullshit! He's just hedging his stance and he and everyone else knows the chiefs need a corner and he knows the "D" he's put out there will not sell out tickets forever! I think he'll have somethings already in process. You can't tell me that Wilbourn didn't agree to keep his contract on draft day!

Did Welborn only have one year left on his contract when we traded for him?

skky man
04-20-2005, 12:26 PM
I'm not sure I think he had more cuz we have not rewoked and he's still on the roster

nascher
04-20-2005, 12:28 PM
Welbourn was under contract with Philly (until 2009)!!! He didn't have to agree.

Surtain is a different situation read CP's statement.

jcroft
04-20-2005, 12:28 PM
I'm not sure I think he had more cuz we have not rewoked and he's still on the roster

Okay, then. So he didn't agree to a contract, we just picked upt he one he already had.

Is that right?

jcroft
04-20-2005, 12:28 PM
Welbourn was under contract with Philly (until 2009)!!! He didn't have to agree.

Surtain is a different situation read CP's statement.

Yep, that's what I thought, but I wasn't positive.

skky man
04-20-2005, 12:41 PM
Damn it I guess I'm trying to have wishful thinking!

philfree
04-20-2005, 12:46 PM
Yeah fug around and he'll end up a Raider, Donk or Patriot. All those teams need a CB and if Surtain isn't our property by the time Miami's 1st pick rolls around he's as good as gone. If we don't get Surtain then our 2nd round pick better become pro bowl-er before he's done or it was a bad decision. I'm usually the last to pile on Carl but if he doesn't get Surtain when it is such a good fit for our #1 need as defined by himself and the rest of his staff I'm gonna be pissed. If that happens and Bartee isn't cut I'm gonna puke. Puke right over the press box where Carl sits and watches the game. :cuss:


PhilFree:arrow: