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HolmeZz
04-20-2005, 06:04 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2042190

Raiders have traded TE Doug Jolley and a 2nd rounder to the Jets for their 1st rounder.

milkman
04-20-2005, 06:09 PM
Damn it.
How is that the most despised owner can make trades, and Carl can't?

And the greaseball is bending the other guys over.

Carl needs to die! :cuss:

5 more years of this crap! :mad:

Ebolapox
04-20-2005, 06:09 PM
the jets are f*cking retarded

-EB-

HolmeZz
04-20-2005, 06:11 PM
It depends on what draft pick was given up by the Raiders. If they gave up Jolley just to move up a few spots, I don't think it's THAT great of a trade. Jolley's still young. Jets've been really desperate for a TE though. They probably should've waited till draft day and seen if Miller could've fallen to them.

Coach
04-20-2005, 06:11 PM
Interesting....

I wonder how's that going to work out, considering that they are (from the last time I checked) that they are somewhat tight in the salary cap.

eazyb81
04-20-2005, 06:13 PM
Unbelievable....

I hate to say it, but Al Davis is 10 times the GM that Carl Peterson is. Now I know why Raider fans love him so much.

Ebolapox
04-20-2005, 06:15 PM
I repeat

the jets are f*cking retarded

-EB-

Mile High Mania
04-20-2005, 06:17 PM
Teams are making trades look easy...

Mile High Mania
04-20-2005, 06:18 PM
Damn... if they did that for Jolley, hell they were in LOVE with Putzier, we might have been able to swindle away their entire draft.

eazyb81
04-20-2005, 06:20 PM
Why wouldn't they just stay put and draft Heath Miller if they wanted a TE so bad? Miller looks like he will be a stud TE, but I think we have seen the best that Jolley has to offer.

Bowser
04-20-2005, 06:21 PM
What is it with east coast teams getting worked over in the upcoming draft? First Washington, now the J E T S jetsjetsjets......

keg in kc
04-20-2005, 06:21 PM
Doug Jolley is worth 12 spots in the late first, early second? Sweet Jesus.

Gav Daddy
04-20-2005, 06:22 PM
It depends on what draft pick was given up by the Raiders. If they gave up Jolley just to move up a few spots, I don't think it's THAT great of a trade. Jolley's still young. Jets've been really desperate for a TE though. They probably should've waited till draft day and seen if Miller could've fallen to them.

buchannon for the 47th and the 73rd.
jolley, our 47th, two 6th rounders for the jets 26th. what a steal.

things are looking up.

beer bacon
04-20-2005, 06:23 PM
Al is making Carl look like an idiot.

eazyb81
04-20-2005, 06:26 PM
buchannon for the 47th and the 73rd.
jolley, our 47th, two 6th rounders for the jets 26th. what a steal.

things are looking up.

where did you hear it was for the 47th? I thought they would have to give up their early 2nd rounder.

milkman
04-20-2005, 06:27 PM
Al is making Carl look like an idiot.

And Carl sure as hell doesn't need any help in that regard.

Gav Daddy
04-20-2005, 06:29 PM
where did you hear it was for the 47th? I thought they would have to give up their early 2nd rounder.

sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...DERS21.TMP

SoCalRaider
04-20-2005, 06:29 PM
RAiders dealt the 47th pick and a couple 6th rounders... Man, this Al Davis is good.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/04/21/RAIDERS21.TMP

HemiEd
04-20-2005, 06:30 PM
Al is making Carl look like an idiot.

Patience, Patience it ain't over. :) Chiefs sell out and the Raiders do not, Davis is trying to sell tickets not build a team. :p

beer bacon
04-20-2005, 06:32 PM
Patience, Patience it ain't over. :) Chiefs sell out and the Raiders do not, Davis is trying to sell tickets not build a team. :p

Wait, what? Who gives a shit about selling out the stadium right now? Al is making better deals this offseason period. If Carl is just BSing then I will happily eat my own words, but after the press conference I am really frustrated.

keg in kc
04-20-2005, 06:34 PM
I don't know that I'd saint Al just yet, that team has even less of a defense than we do.

HolmeZz
04-20-2005, 06:35 PM
Al's giving his team a better chance to win than Carl is doing for us. And I absolutely hate saying that.

Cochise
04-20-2005, 06:38 PM
ROFL check out the Jets forum.


Bradway you goddamned idiot I swear Im gonna hunt you down and bury you 6 feet under



I can't believe this s***...I hate this deal and am hoping we get something else or its just a bad rumor...

maybe jolly fails his phsyical


http://forums.theganggreen.com/showthread.php?t=12706

Not everyone is against it, but some people are pissed.

eazyb81
04-20-2005, 06:39 PM
ROFL check out the Jets forum.





http://forums.theganggreen.com/showthread.php?t=12706

Haha....it's nice to see other teams suffer for a change.

HemiEd
04-20-2005, 06:42 PM
Wait, what? Who gives a shit about selling out the stadium right now? Al is making better deals this offseason period. If Carl is just BSing then I will happily eat my own words, but after the press conference I am really frustrated.


Maybe I missed something on the press conference, I just got back from playing Golf. One lesson that I did learn a long time ago was not to pay any attention to the media reports during Draft week. I hope that is of some consolation, I actually find it humerous what some of the owners do during this time period to excite the fans. Thus my statement, Al Davis needs badly to sell tickets, he needs to generate some off season hype even though it may not make much football sense. My patience statement was intended to put into perspective the whole picture of the off season. I do not think Al Davis could suck the stains out of Carl Petersons shorts.

milkman
04-20-2005, 06:44 PM
Haha....it's nice to see other teams suffer for a change.

They can blame it on Carl, since Bradway was one of Carl's top assistents here for a few years.

Apple clearly didn't fall far from the tree.

Gav Daddy
04-20-2005, 06:44 PM
Wait, what? Who gives a shit about selling out the stadium right now? Al is making better deals this offseason period. If Carl is just BSing then I will happily eat my own words, but after the press conference I am really frustrated.

i heard carl start talking about a 95% season ticket renewal, when asked about his offseason moves.

al traded two mediocre's today for a 1st and a 3rd rounder. that's about it in a nutshell. it's not like they didnt have any value or anything.

jolley could catch like crazy but couldnt block.

phillip can succeed at nickle but not a starter. phil isnt smart enough to be responsible for his duties. he needs to be in a role that is not quite so demanding mentally. LOL!!! he aint too damned bright.

htismaqe
04-20-2005, 06:53 PM
phillip can succeed at nickle but not a starter. phil isnt smart enough to be responsible for his duties. he needs to be in a role that is not quite so demanding mentally. LOL!!! he aint too damned bright.

I wouldn't let Voyager hear that.

keg in kc
04-20-2005, 06:57 PM
Listening to guys bitch on the radio about how much the Chiefs suck because of this deal makes me feel obligated to point out that until Surtain is traded somewhere else or the trade is declared dead by all involved, there's absolutely no reason to get upset. I do understand that years of disappointment make it hard to be objective and that we're all conditioned to prepare for the worst, but it's not over 'til it's over...

HemiEd
04-20-2005, 07:20 PM
Listening to guys bitch on the radio about how much the Chiefs suck because of this deal makes me feel obligated to point out that until Surtain is traded somewhere else or the trade is declared dead by all involved, there's absolutely no reason to get upset. I do understand that years of disappointment make it hard to be objective and that we're all conditioned to prepare for the worst, but it's not over 'til it's over...


Very nicely done, the point I was trying to make. Al Davis is nobody and does nothing to admire, damn! :cuss: Have we already forgotton the signings of Bell and Knight? The fact that he added another Cancer (Randy Moss) to his roster will offset many good moves IMO.

Mr. Laz
04-20-2005, 07:36 PM
Patience, Patience it ain't over. :) Chiefs sell out and the Raiders do not, Davis is trying to sell tickets not build a team. :p

your correct...

carl isn't trying as hard because he has a full stadium and is comfortable.



but that doesn't mean it's a good thing

Rain Man
04-20-2005, 07:41 PM
The Jets are retarded. They must have a six year-old as the GM.

HemiEd
04-20-2005, 07:46 PM
your correct...

carl isn't trying as hard because he has a full stadium and is comfortable.



but that doesn't mean it's a good thing


Very nice spin Laz. I think Carl is trying just hard if not harder but he is not trying as hard to sell tickets via the media. You would not believe the Media BS the Bears create up here to appease the fans and give them hope. Bottom Line, I think the Chiefs have made better overall moves than the Raiders. Knight and Bell are just the beginning. The Chiefs have proven when they built this offense that they know the formula. It was built via trades and Free agency. The crappy defense was mostly built through the draft. I am, as usual very optimistic! :thumb:

Rain Man
04-20-2005, 07:48 PM
The Jets must have a kindergarten student as their GM.

Rain Man
04-20-2005, 07:51 PM
The more I think about it, the Jets must have a toddler as their GM.

Mr. Laz
04-20-2005, 07:52 PM
I am, as usual very optimistic! :thumb:
i need some of them drugs you be doin' ... i really do :(

Mr. Laz
04-20-2005, 07:53 PM
The more I think about it, the Jets must have a toddler as their GM.

a GM that was trained by Carl Peterson

tk13
04-20-2005, 07:55 PM
I don't know. I don't think it's the greatest move in the world but I don't think it's really horrific either for the Jets. They made certain they got a TE instead of hoping for one to fall to them, and picked up an extra draft pick in the process. Plus the Jets have done a solid job drafting in recent years, they essentially got their TE with the late 1st rounder and got an extra pick in doing so. I can see the thought process behind it... especially when you're confident in your ability to draft good players.

HemiEd
04-20-2005, 08:18 PM
i need some of them drugs you be doin' ... i really do :(


If you want to call years of conditioning "drugs" I am doing them. I look at the NFL as a business like any other. Teams that are sold out, especially in high demand small markets like the Chiefs and Packers do not need to make the same "high profile" public moves that "Large Market" sold out or "small market not sold out" teams do. The Raiders are in a much weaker position market wise than most other teams in the NFL, they need to make headlines to get those Oaklanders to buy tickets.
Would you trade what the Chiefs have done for what the Raiders have done this off season seriously? If so, we are in total disagreement. You are clearly one of the leaders on this board of the bash bunch, but you do know your stuff and I respect that. But to say Carl Peterson is not trying to put the best hand together with the cards he has to play is truly ignorance IMO. There is a difference between making mistakes and not trying. People may not understand all of his moves, and he may not pander to the media the way people would like, but I truly believe he is doing the best he knows how. I am personally glad he is with the Chiefs.

SoCalRaider
04-20-2005, 08:21 PM
Al Davis is nobody... and you are :rolleyes:

Have we already forgotton the signings of Bell and Knight?Who?

The fact that he added another Cancer (Randy Moss) to his roster will offset many good moves IMO.Stated like a true jackass.

SoCalRaider
04-20-2005, 08:30 PM
I look at the NFL as a business like any other. Teams that are sold out, especially in high demand small markets like the Chiefs and Packers do not need to make the same "high profile" public moves that "Large Market" sold out or "small market not sold out" teams do. The Raiders are in a much weaker position market wise than most other teams in the NFL, they need to make headlines to get those Oaklanders to buy tickets. Uhhhhhh. hate to be the one to smash this little JV theory, but the RAiders have been using this same exact formula since the 60 and 70s when they were sold out with a waitlist for season tickets. :rolleyes:


Would you trade what the Chiefs have done for what the Raiders have done this off season seriously?Let's see, the RAiders signed a HOF receiver, the best RB in free agency, and a potential starting DE... not to mention trading their way back into the 1st round. The Chiefs... isn't that the team that could have had Surtain for a stupid 2nd rounder... :rolleyes:


People may not understand all of his movesWhat moves? :rolleyes:


I am personally glad he is with the Chiefs.I'm ecstatic he's with the Chiefs... ROFL

HemiEd
04-20-2005, 08:30 PM
... and you are :rolleyes:

Who?

Stated like a true jackass.


You, Randy Moss and Al Davis deserve each other! Pathetic! ROFL

Tribal Warfare
04-20-2005, 08:38 PM
Well Shit the more Ironic thing is Bradway use to be head of the Chiefs scouting department

HemiEd
04-20-2005, 08:43 PM
Uhhhhhh. hate to be the one to smash this little JV theory, but the RAiders have been using this same exact formula since the 60 and 70s when they were sold out with a waitlist for season tickets. :rolleyes:

Hey Afro, they have not been sold out since then, what is your point?
They are a local Blackout team!

Let's see, the RAiders signed a HOF receiver, the best RB in free agency, and a potential starting DE... not to mention trading their way back into the 1st round. The Chiefs... isn't that the team that could have had Surtain for a stupid 2nd rounder... :rolleyes:

Potential HOF receiver you should state, he could end up out of the league before it is all said and done. Best RB in FA still would not make the Chiefs 53 man roster, but he is an upgrade for the Faiders! So this is it? That is all you got?

What moves? :rolleyes:

You should read a little instead of typing! Many more moves than you have stated that your Faiders have made! You should subscribe to more education, it may be your only hope. [

Rain Man
04-20-2005, 08:47 PM
I think the Jets must have an infant as their GM.

HemiEd
04-20-2005, 08:49 PM
I think the Jets must have an infant as their GM.

Is this referred to as a "tripple post?" Ha Ha ROFL

Spicy McHaggis
04-20-2005, 08:58 PM
I did my calculations...And by the "Doug Jolley Value Chart" I've discovered we could have the Jets 1st Round Pick for the next 13 years for Tony G.

If the Jets were that freaking desperate for a pass catching TE, why not draft Miller in the first or Alex Smith in the second or Everett in an even later round? Wow the Jets got the shaft on this one.

Logical
04-20-2005, 09:03 PM
... I do not think Al Davis could suck the stains out of Carl Petersons shorts.My, my get help immediately, Davis runs circles around Carl as GM, his problem is he won't just let his Coaches coach.

TEX
04-20-2005, 09:09 PM
My, my get help immediately, Davis runs circles around Carl as GM, his problem is he won't just let his Coaches coach.

EXACTLY! Davis is ALWAYS trying to improve his team by ANY method he can. Look at this off season, last, and any other. He NEVER stands pat. His main problem is he thinks he's a coach. I HATE the guy, but he does have guts.

Rain Man
04-20-2005, 09:13 PM
I did my calculations...And by the "Doug Jolley Value Chart" I've discovered we could have the Jets 1st Round Pick for the next 13 years for Tony G.

If the Jets were that freaking desperate for a pass catching TE, why not draft Miller in the first or Alex Smith in the second or Everett in an even later round? Wow the Jets got the shaft on this one.


I agree. I think the Jets have a mid-term fetus for a GM.

Deberg_1990
04-20-2005, 09:19 PM
My, my get help immediately, Davis runs circles around Carl as GM, his problem is he won't just let his Coaches coach.

Exactly, i hate the guy but hes a visionary, NEVER stands pat and has Huge Balls to take chances that other teams would never dare.

ChiefsCountry
04-20-2005, 09:49 PM
I agree. I think the Jets have a mid-term fetus for a GM.

Well he did learn from King Carl.

Hoover
04-20-2005, 10:16 PM
So I want to make sure I got this right, Carl is a better GM than the Jets GM, but nowhere near Al Davis or the Rat. Correct?

I think these trades help us get Surtain for a 4th round pick, and also increase the value of one of our safties. If Doug Jolley is worth that, Wesley should bw worth atleast the same to a team in need of a young Saftie.

HolmeZz
04-20-2005, 10:21 PM
We're not getting Surtain for just a 4th.

HipHopper4Life
04-20-2005, 10:23 PM
I think these trades help us get Surtain for a 4th round pick, and also increase the value of one of our safties. If Doug Jolley is worth that, Wesley should bw worth atleast the same to a team in need of a young Saftie.

Using this logic, Miami could turn around and tell us "If Phil Buchanon is worth a 2 an a 3, then Surtain should be worth more than that".

ChiefsCountry
04-21-2005, 12:04 AM
We're not getting Surtain for just a 4th.

4th and 3rd next and maybe a 5th this year or a player. I still think the Dolphins will go for it, they need picks bad.

TEX
04-21-2005, 12:22 AM
4th and 3rd next and maybe a 5th this year or a player. I still think the Dolphins will go for it, they need picks bad.

Not if the Cards, or anyone for that matter,trades a 2nd this year. Shoot, this year's draft is weak anyway so I don't understand why Carl covets the 2nd rounder. :shake:

keg in kc
04-21-2005, 12:28 AM
A 3rd next year is the equivalent of a 4th this year. That won't cut it.

I wouldn't call this draft weak, either. JMO, but I think it's weak in terms of blue chip high first type picks, but I think there's a ton of players who'd fall into the late first to second round range in any draft. There will be some very good players going in the second, third and fourth. Especially at positions we need.

TEX
04-21-2005, 12:39 AM
A 3rd next year is the equivalent of a 4th this year. That won't cut it.

I wouldn't call this draft weak, either. JMO, but I think it's weak in terms of blue chip high first type picks, but I think there's a ton of players who'd fall into the late first to second round range in any draft. There will be some very good players going in the second, third and fourth. Especially at positions we need.

Yeah, I know. But I'd be willing to bet that the one we draft in the 2nd will not be better than Surtain. :shake:

keg in kc
04-21-2005, 12:48 AM
Yeah, I know. But I'd be willing to bet that the one we draft in the 2nd will not be better than Surtain.I said this earlier on some other thread, I don't remember which one, but I don't think it's a matter of either or. We want to have our cake and eat it to, not Surtain vs. a 2nd round pick, but rather Surtain AND that 2nd round pick. And I have absolutely no problem with that, right up until the night before the draft. Why would we not try to do as much as we can to retain that pick, work a deal for compensation next year? Say, for instance, the idea is to get Surtain via a trade, Carlos Rogers at 15 (won't be there I think, but hypothetically) and then a top DE or LB in the second, who, this year I think, will be a pretty high value. We're looking for immediate impact, remember, and regardless of our history, the more higher picks we have, the better shot we have.

I would work this deal to the last possible moment. Especially since we're still the only team involved (I don't buy the 'zona rumor yet).

Maybe in the end we cave, but we damn well ought to be trying to get the best value we can.

JMO of course. I've got no problem with the way this has gone. We haven't lost Surtain to anyone. Yet. If that happens, well...

Nightfyre
04-21-2005, 03:52 AM
Not if the Cards, or anyone for that matter,trades a 2nd this year. Shoot, this year's draft is weak anyway so I don't understand why Carl covets the 2nd rounder. :shake:
maybe its because this is the best 2nd round ever seen in a draft before...

HemiEd
04-21-2005, 06:40 AM
My, my get help immediately, Davis runs circles around Carl as GM, his problem is he won't just let his Coaches coach.

Really? So who put together the Group of miss-fits out in Oafland that has been revolting for several years. They basically had a mutiny a couple of years ago. Then, the owner did not back the coach, he sided with the players. They still have a bunch of malcontents. Sorry, that is not being a very good leader, GM or Owner. He sucks! But at least he is consistent on what he wears, the same crapt he wore 30 years ago.

Amnorix
04-21-2005, 06:50 AM
Herm Edwards (coach of the Jets) is a nice guy, a solid coach, but suffers from the Schottenheimer/Cowher school of being unable to win the big game, for similar reasons. I do like him alot, and think he's a good coach anyway.

Terry Bradway, the GM of the Jets, is a flaming moron. An unbelievable idiot, and I really don't understand how he keeps his job. But, since I hate the Jets and all that they stand for, I applaud his stupidity.

Unfortunately, in this case, it benefits another team I hate -- the damned Raiders.

oldandslow
04-21-2005, 07:11 AM
Really? So who put together the Group of miss-fits out in Oafland that has been revolting for several years. They basically had a mutiny a couple of years ago. Then, the owner did not back the coach, he sided with the players. They still have a bunch of malcontents. Sorry, that is not being a very good leader, GM or Owner. He sucks! But at least he is consistent on what he wears, the same crapt he wore 30 years ago.

All I have to say is...

Super Bowl II
Super Bowl XI
Super Bowl XV
Super Bowl XVIII
Super Bowl XXXVII

Yeah, that Al Davis sure does suck...

I wish CP could suck the same way....

and I hate the friggin' raiders.

Gav Daddy
04-21-2005, 07:50 AM
Really? So who put together the Group of miss-fits out in Oafland that has been revolting for several years. They basically had a mutiny a couple of years ago. Then, the owner did not back the coach, he sided with the players. They still have a bunch of malcontents. Sorry, that is not being a very good leader, GM or Owner. He sucks! But at least he is consistent on what he wears, the same crapt he wore 30 years ago.

buy into.

"he doesnt let his coaches, coach" ok. who gets the credit for us going to the s.b. a couple years ago? hmmm....that was the same year al won executive of the year. hmmm......

keep in mind ed, those misfits you are talking about went to the s.b. in jan of 03.

i have seen that "al, is a good gm but not a coach". really? he went 10-4 his first year with the raiders as their head coach and won coach of the year honors.

here's the grand kicker....

if al is so stupid why did lamar tag him for commish in the afl/nfl wars?

which leads to their falling out.... al was hired as commish to break the nfl who wanted a 70-30 split. after some hardball by al, the nfl all of a sudden wanted to negotiate. lamar, wanting to fall into the established blue blood order of the nfl told al to call the dogs off. that wasnt good enough for al. he wanted to castrated them. we were getting better ratings and al knew it. he didnt want to merge. lamar relented. lamar thinks al is out of control and al probably thinks lamar is a pussy.

are there any oldtimers here who know this to be true? c'mon. i know there are some old afl guys here who remember the afl stealing players from the nfl drafts and reappropriating them for the afl drafts. c'mon oldtimers... what was the final straw that sent al over the edge?

remember when the chiefs drafted gayle sayers and the nfl snagged him away from the afl draft? let's be honest here......the gayle sayers deal is what motivated the afl owners to go to war.

mean old al.

how bout lamar hired a shark to do a job all the way(bust the nfl) and when it started getting ugly, lamar called him off. one small problem. al aint a quitter. obviously. he actually worked for and didnt inherit his money.....

lot's of myth's running around about al and why he is a dirty rotten so and so. you dont always here the truth when the media and the league need a bad guy. the yankees are the bad guy in baseball. all leagues have a bad guy. it makes fiscal sense and it is good social psychology.

mean old al who went and visited dt in miami. there is another side to this "maverick" that some dont want to admit too.

HemiEd
04-21-2005, 08:25 AM
buy into.

"he doesnt let his coaches, coach" ok. who gets the credit for us going to the s.b. a couple years ago? hmmm....that was the same year al won executive of the year. hmmm......

keep in mind ed, those misfits you are talking about went to the s.b. in jan of 03.

And how did that work out? Seems like they imploded to me. Gannon had a great year but showed in the SB why the Chiefs discarded him. How has the team performed since then? What has been their earned draft position the two years since then? How many of that group are still on the "team?"


are there any oldtimers here who know this to be true? c'mon. i know there are some old afl guys here who remember the afl stealing players
from the nfl drafts and reappropriating them for the afl drafts. c'mon oldtimers... what was the final straw that sent al over the edge?
remember when the chiefs drafted gayle sayers and the nfl snagged him away for the nfl draft? let's be honest here......the gayle sayers deal is what motivated the afl owners to go to war.
mean old al.
This was actually before my time, very interesting stuff though!

lot's of myth's running around about al and why he is a dirty rotten so and so. you dont always here the truth when the media and the league need a bad guy. the yankees are the bad guy in baseball. all leagues have a bad guy. it makes fiscal sense and it is good social psychology.

Good Points here, he has accomplished the goal with me, I have hated him and the Raiders for 35 years now. Almost irrationally!

mean old al who went and visited dt in miami. there is another side to this "maverick" that some dont want to admit too

I must admit, that trip to visit DT did shock me. It does not fit with how he tried to destroy Marcus Allen.

Gav Daddy
04-21-2005, 08:58 AM
on marcus i will be more than happy to tell you all about it. if your interested just let me know. i know some would rather just side in with the kc media(who btw have now turned on their own) than actually hear the sordid details.

we did implode at the s.b.. i can admit that. i can also say that tim brown was a cancer to our team(i have proof of that if anyone is interested).

i am the type of guy who roots for my organization. no player is above that organization. an organization is like a chain and is only as strong as it's weakest link. brown was a weak link. marcus was a weak link.

anyhoo, were you aware that cally wanted to primarily run on the cover 2/3 in the s.b.? brown, gannon, garner and rice all said, "let's stick with what got us here"! cally relented. barret got hauled off in a straight jacket and our team tried to throw on the best cover 2/3 in the league at the time. doesnt make sense, does it?

that wasnt al's fault.

cant have it both ways ed.

i dont care if you like al or not, but put things in perspective.

either al mostly hinders the organization or he mostly helps it. it's gotta be at least 51-49%, one way or the other.

should i give him his props or tear him down?

at least i know he spends every last dime that he can, and he doesnt have very deep pockets. he only owns like 37% of the team.

i know one thing about al. it's not a business to him. it's an adventure. he does everything he can to win. sometimes it pans out, sometimes it doesnt. but he is not AFRAID to roll the dice. he does not care about sell outs. he does not care about the established perception of him. he likes being an outcast. maybe he thinks he is teddy roosevelt at san juan hill or some shit, i dont know. but he TRIES. that's all i can ask for.

i am just thankful of the glory i have seen and watched over my lifetime.

i admire him for giving a kid 3 s.b. victories that i ACTUALLY got to watch.

i wouldnt trade him for any other owner. he may BE nuts(in some eye's) but he HAS nuts.

he started his career as an unpaid ,graduate asst. coach in the college ranks. he now is the majority owner of an nfl team with the majority of voting stocks on that team. so while he only owns 37% of ACTUAL stock, most of those stocks are VOTING stocks.

i hope he lives forever.

i wont go into his views on equality and fairness, except for one little thing. he didnt need to cheat the cap like denver did to win back to back s.b.'s.

milkman
04-21-2005, 07:48 PM
So I want to make sure I got this right, Carl is a better GM than the Jets GM, but nowhere near Al Davis or the Rat. Correct?

I think these trades help us get Surtain for a 4th round pick, and also increase the value of one of our safties. If Doug Jolley is worth that, Wesley should bw worth atleast the same to a team in need of a young Saftie.

No, Carl is not a better GM than the Jets GM.
Bradway is just showing what he learned under Carl, and is proving to be equally as bad.

Gav Daddy
04-21-2005, 08:05 PM
No, Carl is not a better GM than the Jets GM.
Bradway is just showing what he learned under Carl, and is proving to be equally as bad.

then keitzman has been up in that arrowhead ass on his radio show about them being cheap at best and incompetent at worst.

whitlock called carl out in the paper today.

the fans are near mutiny on the boards.

this is a quote from carl, while being asked a question by whitlock at yesterday's press conference, "we had a 95% renewal on our season tickets". what an astute thing to say to someone asking about the fans being mad at the lack of f.a. signings the last 2 years on defense.

you will get the 4th best corner in football.

i know how lamar thinks after all this time. you guys should flood those radio shows more often.

HemiEd
04-21-2005, 09:11 PM
you will get the 4th best corner in football.




I hope you are correct on this and look forward to your version of the Marus Allen story anytime! :thumb:

Gav Daddy
04-21-2005, 11:05 PM
i actually hope i am not right. i dont want you guys getting surtain. LOL! i just think it's gonna happen.

my opinion on the marcus thing.

he wanted more money before his rookie contract was up.
al agreed.
he then wanted to be the highest paid running back in the league.
again, al agreed.
the following year, eric dickersen signed a contract that made him the new, highest paid running back in the nfl.
marcus wanted al to redo his contract a 3rd time.
al did not agree this time. and rightfully so. can you imagine all this bending backward for a player prior to free agency? hell, team's dont do that now if they dont want to. it's not like al wasnt being more than fair.
marcus ran and bitched about it in the press.
beginning of rift.

al took a wild roulette spin, chance on bo jackson in the 7th round. all this after bo vehemently maintained he would not play football and only baseball. al took a gamble on him changing his mind and it panned out.

at this time bo was a better, fresher running back. i know that sounds crazy, but bo jackson was a bad mofo. also a heisman winner.

al wanted to make bo a running back and marcus a f.b. he figured that would be one helluva backfield with a bad ass like bo, and marcus in the backfield getting lots of touches and catches. think larry centers with the ability to REALLY run and cut when he got hand offs and yac. best possible backfield ever.marcus was a helluva blocker too(tony richardson never once complained about being bounced around to the press that i remember) solid team player who plays for alot less than marcus was getting. even back in those days).

marcus did not want what was best for the TEAM at the time. he wanted what was best for MARCUS. it was simply not good for marcus in his mind.

instead of marcus wanting to utilize the new heisman trophy winner, he decided to pout.

they had a rift, yet al has remained silent. marcus yells and screams to the press every chance he gets and just says, "i dont understand what the problem is". al was always "no comment". marcus would say various things about it over the years, but al was always solid and said nothing.

so when marcus starts getting all the pub around hall of fame time, he starts bringing it back up on t.v. and in the papers. al said nothing. no comment. i dont remember AL bringing it up, when he was getting pub for going into the hall of fame......

if marcus truly wanted to bury the hatchet he would have just called al up. hashed it out in private. this is if we are to believe that marcus is out for altruistic reasons to mend the relationship.keep in mind it was marcus who started the relationship to sour by flapping his gums to the press and bitching about more money when al already took care of him twice.

instead, marcus says on t.v., "that he wants to kiss and make up with al and just put it all behind them, but he doesnt know what the problem is". something to that effect.

it would be a helluva lot more appropriate to just call him. why the need to grandstand?

he knew al wasnt gonna show up on tv and kiss and make up on marcus' terms. al was NOT gonna let marcus look like the good guy after he continually would not honor his contracts and put the organization on front street. this is al davis we are talking about. as secret as they come. this is not your average owner who just hires others to do his work for him. he is not like a snyder who just got wealthy and bought a team as a fan of football.

this is a guy who worked his ass off to get where he is and he deserves some MUTUAL respect on even terms in private. not t.v.. get a grip. we all know al is like howard hughes. he is a workaholic and he is reclusive.

al was not gonna let the guy he thought SCREWED him, make up the time and the place on t.v. of all places. give me a break. LOL


let's face it. this surely is not the whole story. just my TAKE. i am not a mind reader. just observant(LOL) on all raider issues. plus marcus used to be my favorite raider. i was also an s.c. fan at the time as i am now.

that is just a counterpoint to the "al screwed marcus" takes i hear from people sometimes.

all i want to ask people is, how?
who screwed around with who, first?

here is a little something to think about. if al is so bad, why have more people chosen al to introduce them into the hall of fame, than anyone else?

life is all about perception. LOL!!!!

Raider Nation
04-22-2005, 01:42 AM
Im glad the Raders are back in the 1st round they need to add speed to there defense. Gotta love Al The Pimp Davis he is always making moves

Redcoats58
04-22-2005, 02:23 AM
Al is making Carl look like an idiot.
No... Carl is making Carl look like an idiot. He doesn't need any help.

Redcoats58
04-22-2005, 02:27 AM
Im glad the Raders are back in the 1st round they need to add speed to there defense. Gotta love Al "The Corpse" Davis he is always making moves
Here I fixed your post.

milkman
04-22-2005, 04:21 AM
which leads to their falling out.... al was hired as commish to break the nfl who wanted a 70-30 split. after some hardball by al, the nfl all of a sudden wanted to negotiate. lamar, wanting to fall into the established blue blood order of the nfl told al to call the dogs off. that wasnt good enough for al. he wanted to castrated them. we were getting better ratings and al knew it. he didnt want to merge. lamar relented. lamar thinks al is out of control and al probably thinks lamar is a pussy.

I've talked about this a couple of times when I've discussed reasons that the Chiefs and Raiders simply don't deal with each other.

It's not talked about in the media, but this created a rift between Lamar and Al, and they absolutely despise each other, because of it.

HemiEd
04-22-2005, 06:19 AM
al took a wild roulette spin, chance on bo jackson in the 7th round. all this after bo vehemently maintained he would not play football and only baseball. al took a gamble on him changing his mind and it panned out.

at this time bo was a better, fresher running back. i know that sounds crazy, but bo jackson was a bad mofo. also a heisman winner.

life is all about perception. LOL!!!!

See, you brought another reason why I hate Davis and the Raiders. The Royals had a great ball player get ruined wearing a Raider uniform! I was so pissed when he signed with the Raiders, it was a bad day! :cuss:

Gav Daddy
04-22-2005, 08:07 AM
I've talked about this a couple of times when I've discussed reasons that the Chiefs and Raiders simply don't deal with each other.

It's not talked about in the media, but this created a rift between Lamar and Al, and they absolutely despise each other, because of it.

yep. that's the main point of contention.

also, why would the media want to talk about it? it wouldnt further their purpose of having the league "bad guy" to bag on.

it would be counterproductive to visit that issue. invariably, people would see the other side to this rift and it would humanize the guy people like to think of as satan himself. LOL!!!!