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View Full Version : Will Surtain Be A Chief by Friday?


petegz28
04-20-2005, 09:51 PM
Is CeePee gonna make the move or draft another 2nd round bust?

nomad
04-20-2005, 10:29 PM
:shrug:

The Bad Guy
04-20-2005, 10:31 PM
I voted no. This defense has sucked for 4 years and this FO has done nothing to adequately fix it.

I have no reason to believe they will do the smart thing.

keg in kc
04-20-2005, 10:31 PM
If 'by Friday' you mean on Thursday, then no. If it's done before the draft, I think it'll be late Friday night, and I'd say it's about 50/50 that it will happen.

My gut says that it will but I can't tell you why I think that.

Cochise
04-20-2005, 10:31 PM
My prediction is that we get him it will be a draft day trade. They'll wait and see what slips down to them at #15. If one of the big 3 corners drops to us, they take him and forget about Surtain. If they're gone, we trade down or out of the first round and pick up another second to make the trade.

Maybe it would be hard to work out a trade for a player actually during the draft, but if they really have the extension agreement ready then I could see it. I definitely wouldn't mind if they moved down to the bottom or out of the first and picked up extra picks along with Surtain.

el borracho
04-20-2005, 10:32 PM
No, and Surtain, Saban and the Dolphins can go eff themselves.

Bowser
04-20-2005, 10:34 PM
My prediction is that we get him it will be a draft day trade. They'll wait and see what slips down to them at #15. If one of the big 3 corners drops to us, they take him and forget about Surtain. If they're gone, we trade down or out of the first round and pick up another second to make the trade.

Maybe it would be hard to work out a trade for a player actually during the draft, but if they really have the extension agreement ready then I could see it. I definitely wouldn't mind if they moved down to the bottom or out of the first and picked up extra picks along with Surtain.

Problem is, we need one of the "big three" corners, AND Surtain.

The Bad Guy
04-20-2005, 10:35 PM
No, and Surtain, Saban and the Dolphins can go eff themselves.

Yeah, how dare he ask for a 2nd rounder for Surtain. The nerve of someone wanting some value for a pro bowl cornerback. :rolleyes:

Did Carl Peterson pay you to write that on the internet?

el borracho
04-20-2005, 10:35 PM
My prediction is that we get him it will be a draft day trade. They'll wait and see what slips down to them at #15. If one of the big 3 corners drops to us, they take him and forget about Surtain. If they're gone, we trade down or out of the first round and pick up another second to make the trade.

Maybe it would be hard to work out a trade for a player actually during the draft, but if they really have the extension agreement ready then I could see it. I definitely wouldn't mind if they moved down to the bottom or out of the first and picked up extra picks along with Surtain.
Per Carl, the current obstacle is the contract negotiations with Surtain. The compensation to the Dolphins would be negotiated after a contract agreement. If that is true, then the draft won't affect negotiations and it will not matter who is available at #15.

Woodrow Call
04-20-2005, 10:36 PM
I voted no but I still think there is a 30% chance it gets done. The Trent Green trade is the only thing that gives me even a little hope.

Bowser
04-20-2005, 10:38 PM
Per Carl, the current obstacle is the contract negotiations with Surtain. The compensation to the Dolphins would be negotiated after a contract agreement. If that is true, then the draft won't affect negotiations and it will not matter who is available at #15.

Pffft. The biggest obstacle is Carl himself.

ChiTown
04-20-2005, 10:38 PM
Hell no.

That'd make way too much fn sense............

chiefs4me
04-20-2005, 10:40 PM
No he won't.....

el borracho
04-20-2005, 10:55 PM
Yeah, how dare he ask for a 2nd rounder for Surtain. The nerve of someone wanting some value for a pro bowl cornerback. :rolleyes:

Did Carl Peterson pay you to write that on the internet?
Yep, and I'm going to use the money to buy some machismo.

Actually, I just far prefer that my team builds through the draft and supplement the roster with free-agents. I definitely do not believe in selling out the future because we anticipate that our "window of opportunity" is closing. IMO, giving away picks is closing the window because picks represent the future of our team.

Cochise
04-20-2005, 10:57 PM
Per Carl, the current obstacle is the contract negotiations with Surtain. The compensation to the Dolphins would be negotiated after a contract agreement. If that is true, then the draft won't affect negotiations and it will not matter who is available at #15.

Well, I was trusting previous reports from ESPN, etc., stating that they had a contract agreed upon. I'm more inclined to trust them than Carl...

philfree
04-20-2005, 10:59 PM
I'm not saying it will or will not happen but I hope the hell it does. CB was the biggest need Carl and Co. identified after they reviewed after the 2004 season and by not getting Surtain at this pont would be a huge black eye IMO. Bigger than having to cave in to the 2nd round whims of the Fish.


PhilFree:arrow:

the Talking Can
04-20-2005, 11:07 PM
until CP gives a reason to believe otherwiseyou have to say no.....it makes entirely too much sense to improve our joke of a defense with a probowl CB...CP is much more concerned with hording picks than acquiring talent

he can't take credit for Surtain because Surtain is already a proven talent...but with a draft pick CP can hit the lottery once every 1000 tries and then gloat about how smart he his....I hope that fart lover gets run over before, during, and after the draft

the Talking Can
04-20-2005, 11:10 PM
yes, I am going insane imagining the ways CP can **** this up...and then hold a press conference and start in with his, "well, we couldn't get a deal that made sense for both sides...it takes two to negotiate...someone in the media leaked that...we think our young players just need a chance...with another year in Gunther's scheme...we're not going to jepordize the future...we won a lot of games in the 90's...."

SCTrojan
04-20-2005, 11:11 PM
Still holding out hope that it will happen on draft day.

Taco John
04-20-2005, 11:21 PM
Per Carl, the current obstacle is the contract negotiations with Surtain. The compensation to the Dolphins would be negotiated after a contract agreement. If that is true, then the draft won't affect negotiations and it will not matter who is available at #15.


Both have to happen one way or another. That's why player trades had been so rare prior to last year.

Iowanian
04-20-2005, 11:27 PM
Its not going to happen.

Surtain hasn't agreed to a contract.
Surtain hasn't been cleared by Chiefs medical staff
Miami hasn't backed off its 2nd rounder.

Its not happening. at all.

Ty law.......in June.......Welcome to KC.

Chiefnj
04-20-2005, 11:46 PM
Surtain will be happy making 6 million this year, living on the Florida coast and then pulling in a nice free agent contract 11 months from now with a signing bonus upwards of 13 million. 19 million in money and a house on the beach; KC can't touch it.

Woodrow Call
04-20-2005, 11:52 PM
Just think if Carl hadn't had f'd up the whole Rolle deal none of this would even matter. Carl could have his precious 2nd pick and a CB.

The biggest mistake the Chiefs made was putting all their eggs in Rolle basket early in free agency. Now all the free agent options are gone, Surtain looks bleak, and Law will probably go to Pitt or the Jets.

How in the hell can CP and the rest of front office let this happen? The main need has always been a premier CB.

digi2fish
04-20-2005, 11:53 PM
where is the "damit Carl" option ?
:mad:

Wallcrawler
04-20-2005, 11:58 PM
Actually, I just far prefer that my team builds through the draft and supplement the roster with free-agents.


And you formulated this view how, again? You are talking about the Chiefs, right?

In case youre not up on current events, or any events for the past several years for that matter, the Kansas City Chiefs have been a sure bet to screw the pooch during the draft every year. How you could ever want to rely on the Chiefs' drafting ability to improve the team is beyond me.


The Kansas City Chiefs cannot draft well. Its been proven year after year. They dont have the intelligence, nor the scouting talents required to build a team through the draft. Instead of drafting players, they draft projects, and reach on guys much sooner than they would have to. Guys who are supposed to be "hybrids" who could be this, that, or the other when it comes to playing a position are drafted, and most often, the player is a bust.


Why you would reason that the Chiefs are somehow going to get it right this year is beyond me. Its a second round pick were talking about here. 3 second round picks in the last 16 years under Carl Peterson's watch have panned out. The rest are garbage.

How you can be in favor of passing up proven, pro bowl talent in a position of desperate need in lieu of taking another roll of the dice in the second round is unbelievable.

easymobee
04-21-2005, 12:01 AM
If Carl doesn't trade for Surtain and instead drafts a player with that pick.

Imagine the poor kid that gets drafted there and the pressure on him to succeed from KC's fanbase.

He may as well change his name to .... "That Coulda been Patrick Surtain"

crossbow
04-21-2005, 12:08 AM
Nope. Carl is too gready to give the fins a fair payment for a good player and he is too conceited to admit his people can't draft. He actualy thinks they will find a player in the 2nd that will turn out to be as good as Surtain but they won't have to pay him as much. Well if it doesn't work out he can blame the media for it.

Remember: "It's the 2nd day of the draft that is the most important" :banghead:

easymobee
04-21-2005, 12:16 AM
It looks like noone is really buying the "We can still trade for him after the draft" spin.

I was curious as to how that was gonna be received.

el borracho
04-21-2005, 12:31 AM
'Carl can't draft/ blah, blah, blah/ boo-hoo-hoo'

a) If the problem is that Carl can't draft, then the Chiefs need to put someone else in charge of the draft. You can't solve the problem by just giving away your draft picks. You pay too much, often get duds and end up with an old roster.

b) Contrary to popular belief around here, I would say that Carl is at least average in the draft and maybe above average. If you believe different please name the gms in the last 16 years who were/ are better than Carl. I doubt if the list is very long.

TEX
04-21-2005, 12:45 AM
'Carl can't draft/ blah, blah, blah/ boo-hoo-hoo'

a) If the problem is that Carl can't draft, then the Chiefs need to put someone else in charge of the draft. You can't solve the problem by just giving away your draft picks. You pay too much, often get duds and end up with an old roster.

b) Contrary to popular belief around here, I would say that Carl is at least average in the draft and maybe above average. If you believe different please name the gms in the last 16 years who were/ are better than Carl. I doubt if the list is very long.


Why don't YOU name GM's that Carl has drafted better than? And please don't leave out round 2! ROFL Besides, how many GM's have been with the SAME team over that span???? Maybe Al Davis, but does he count since he's the owner? If so, he would put Carl to shame... :hmmm:

TEX
04-21-2005, 12:47 AM
If Carl doesn't trade for Surtain and instead drafts a player with that pick.

Imagine the poor kid that gets drafted there and the pressure on him to succeed from KC's fanbase.

He may as well change his name to .... "That Coulda been Patrick Surtain"


Shoot, he should print it, instead of his name, on the back of his jersey! Shoot, "He-HATE-ME" would have NOTHING on him.

bigbucks24
04-21-2005, 12:51 AM
The Kansas City Chiefs cannot draft well. Its been proven year after year. They dont have the intelligence, nor the scouting talents required to build a team through the draft. Instead of drafting players, they draft projects, and reach on guys much sooner than they would have to. Guys who are supposed to be "hybrids" who could be this, that, or the other when it comes to playing a position are drafted, and most often, the player is a bust.

I was listening to the radio today, probably to Kietzman, and heard his theory about the draft. The first couple of rounds are influenced highly by the HC and top Assistants. They start scouting players after the draft and only have enough time to break down film on a certin number of players. How many realistic options do you hae at #15? The lower rounds are more influenced by the scouting staff. They have loads of time to scout many players. His point was that the "reaches" and "projects" at the top of the draft are DV's fault. The "gems" in the later rounds are more the result of good scouting. An interesting theory.

el borracho
04-21-2005, 01:04 AM
Why don't YOU name GM's that Carl has drafted better than?
Because I am lazy. Besides, I believe that Rainman already did some crazy number-crunching analysis of Carl vs. the league. Per that analysis, Carl is at least average and maybe slightly above average. Maybe someone has a link to that thread?

One could also look at the Chiefs win/ loss percentage during Carl's tenure and draw some reasonable inferences. In the last 16 years the Chiefs have been fairly successful and part of the credit goes to Carl and the players he has drafted. Of course the Chiefs have not been wildly successful (no Superbowl appearance) and part of the blame goes to Carl and the players he has drafted.

I do find it interesting that our record in recent years has been horrible which coincides with several short drafts. Because of the Vermeil and Green deals and choices like Roaf and Welbourne we have rarely had a full complement of picks in the last few years. Of course we have compounded the problem by striking out with the few choices we have had. Still, I don't think the general trend indicates that Carl is particularly bad. I think the general trend indicates that Carl is at least average and maybe slightly better than average.

(I will now brace myself for the neg-rep barrage.)

ChiefsCountry
04-21-2005, 01:09 AM
Okay here is the biggest question - Has Nick Athan, Mr. Chiefs Insider, said that this deal is done yet?

TEX
04-21-2005, 01:14 AM
Because I am lazy. Besides, I believe that Rainman already did some crazy number-crunching analysis of Carl vs. the league. Per that analysis, Carl is at least average and maybe slightly above average. Maybe someone has a link to that thread?

One could also look at the Chiefs win/ loss percentage during Carl's tenure and draw some reasonable inferences. In the last 16 years the Chiefs have been fairly successful and part of the credit goes to Carl and the players he has drafted. Of course the Chiefs have not been wildly successful (no Superbowl appearance) and part of the blame goes to Carl and the players he has drafted.

I do find it interesting that our record in recent years has been horrible which coincides with several short drafts. Because of the Vermeil and Green deals and choices like Roaf and Welbourne we have rarely had a full complement of picks in the last few years. Of course we have compounded the problem by striking out with the few choices we have had. Still, I don't think the general trend indicates that Carl is particularly bad. I think the general trend indicates that Carl is at least average and maybe slightly better than average.

(I will now brace myself for the neg-rep barrage.)


No barrage or negative rep will come your way from me. Shoot, it's just your opinion. Besides, I'm lazy as well, and my opinion is that don't I believe that Carl is anywhere near above average.

Nor will I dispute the fact that the CHIEFS did have like the 3rd or 4th best record during the '90's (and no Conference championships or Super Bowl victories) but they have only finished above .500 once in the past 5 yeras and only twice since '98. So, that "good record" argument grows weaker year-by -year. That has to reflect a poor job drafting IMO. :hmmm:

Woodrow Call
04-21-2005, 01:15 AM
Okay here is the biggest question - Has Nick Athan, Mr. Chiefs Insider, said that this deal is done yet?

I went over to his board after work to see if his lies had finally caught up to him. Some of his posters were starting to turn on him. It was hilarious. :)

I also caught these gems:

1. Tony G is the center piece of the "blockbuster"
2. Wesley or Woods will net the Chiefs 2 first day picks if traded.

:rolleyes:

keg in kc
04-21-2005, 01:24 AM
1. Tony G is the center piece of the "blockbuster"Wow. We're going to trade the guy who is arguably Carl's best draft pick, the centerpiece of our offense, a year after he breaks the NFL all time single season TE reception mark.

Well, it would certainly be the best time to do it. Just....wow.

Wallcrawler
04-21-2005, 03:22 AM
Contrary to popular belief around here, I would say that Carl is at least average in the draft and maybe above average. If you believe different please name the gms in the last 16 years who were/ are better than Carl. I doubt if the list is very long.


Lamar Hunt is the league's most passive owner. I firmly believe that Hunt runs this team as money first, and if they win a SB title while doing that, great. But he isnt about to go all out for it. So part of the blame goes to Hunt as well.

One playoff appearance in 8 years, no playoff victories in 12 years anywhere else in the league would have the GM booted out just based on general principle.

Carl is only here, because he maintains the bottom line and turns a profit for Lamar. Carl the President rocks, Carl the GM sucks ass.


Carl Peterson might be average. But who really gives a rats ass about average?

Under Carl Peterson's watch, every team in the AFC West has been to the superbowl but the Kansas City Chiefs. Denver twice 97-98, San Diego '94, and Oakland '02.

The Chiefs havent even sniffed a playoff victory since the 93-94 season, at Houston.

Me personally, I think 16 years is giving a guy MORE than a fair shot to get something done. Its time to try something different, because every single year, its the same story. Same BS. Top talent available, top talent passed over, and some ridiculous story is thrown in there as an excuse.


Im sick of seeing all these other teams going out and busting their asses, and landing these top flight guys to try to make it to the superbowl while the Chiefs do nothing but sit on their hands.

Maybe those teams dont make it all the way (Only one team can win the SB after all....), but at least their fans can see that they are putting forth an honest effort, trying to get there, and arent fed lines of BS and expected to be happy when the team settles for bargain basement players to try to improve the team. We as Chiefs fans have our intelligence insulted yearly, expected to believe the horseshit that is shoveled at us by the truckload every year from Carl Peterson, along with his crew of flunkies over at KCChiefs.com, Rand, Gretz, and Dawes.



A relatively simple deal is sitting on the desk of Carl Peterson. Trade the 2 to miami, pay Surtain what he is worth, add pro bowl talent to your defense.

How difficult is that? It seems fairly cut and dried. You have the worst secondary in the league, only one pure corner on the team, one guy who has never been a safety, that being your dimeback Benny Sapp, and now you can add a pro bowl corner to seal up one entire side of the field. As a bonus, you have his Dolphin teammate Sammy Knight onboard also, so half the field is in good hands. This is a very good situation.

But no, the deal is not done. We as Chiefs fans are expected to believe that with the 46th pick in the draft, Carl and company are going to draft a player that will be of greater value than that of a guy who went to Hawaii the past 3 years. Carl cannot possibly believe that the Chiefs fanbase is that daft.


Seeing something like this, that is so simple, get F'ed over so badly by Carl is the reason that I wanted someone else in there to have a shot at being a GM. Whether it be stupidity, Ego, whatever, Carl Peterson simply is not quality GM material. He'd rather start a pissing contest with another GM instead of doing what needs to be done to improve the team. It sickens me to see this team year after year get shafted in the offseason in the manner in which it does.

wildcat09
04-21-2005, 03:25 AM
who f'n knows :shrug:

petegz28
04-21-2005, 08:31 AM
CeePee says we have to get him in for a physical, get the contract worked out and signed and all that must happend before Saturday.

The clock is ticking CeePee!

petegz28
04-21-2005, 02:16 PM
bump

King_Chief_Fan
04-21-2005, 02:21 PM
who f'n knows :shrug:

I would have better luck trying to determine the lottery numbers than
making a guess on Surtain

whoman69
04-21-2005, 02:34 PM
Yeah, how dare he ask for a 2nd rounder for Surtain. The nerve of someone wanting some value for a pro bowl cornerback. :rolleyes:

Did Carl Peterson pay you to write that on the internet?
A pro-Bowl CB that is 29, provides a big cap hit to the Dolphins, and who nobody else has stepped to the plate and offered more than a 4th for.