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View Full Version : How have the Raiders done in their pre-draft dealings?


cmh6476
04-21-2005, 10:32 AM
try not to let your raider hatred bias your thoughts :(


This is I think the cumulative:

received:
Randy Moss
pick 1.26
pick 3.14 (78 overall)
pick 7.26 (240 overall)

dealt:
Philip Buchanon
Napoleon Harris
Doug Jolley
pick 1.07
pick 7.05 (219 overall)
pick 6.38 (212 overall)
pick 6.40 (214 overall)

If this were your team that has made these moves, would you consider them a success or a failure?

I got this from here:

http://www.fftodayforums.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=120222

Brock
04-21-2005, 10:34 AM
Having Randy Moss on your team isn't always a plus. I think I would have just stayed at the 7 spot.

cmh6476
04-21-2005, 10:35 AM
I guess they got a 2nd from the texans for buchanon wwhich they traded to the jets for the first (along with jolley) which is why the 2nd was left completely off? :shrug:

cmh6476
04-21-2005, 10:37 AM
Having Randy Moss on your team isn't always a plus. I think I would have just stayed at the 7 spot.
being a chiefs fan, I think we'd be better off with Harris and Buchanan than Moss. Of course, our defense isn't the greatest either...

Brock
04-21-2005, 10:40 AM
being a chiefs fan, I think we'd be better off with Harris and Buchanan than Moss. Of course, our defense isn't the greatest either...

The raiders d is not very good either. They likely could have grabbed derrick Johnson or another big time player for their defense.

I'm pretty ambivalent about what they've done, I guess.

jspchief
04-21-2005, 10:42 AM
I'd say you did pretty good, if you ignore what your team needs were going into the off-season.

A team that is so bad on the defensive side of the ball, not only getting rid of defensive talent, but being aggressive in aquiring offensive talent.

It just doesn't make a lot of sense for the Raiders.

Mark M
04-21-2005, 10:47 AM
It'd make more sense had they gotten some defensive help. Instead they traded for an incredible WR with issues, and traded away a solid #2 CB, a LB and the 7th overall pick.

The Chiefs defense sucks ass to be sure, but the Faiders gave up more points and more rushing yards. One would think they'd have adressed those issues.

Thankfully, they have not.

MM
~~:D

King_Chief_Fan
04-21-2005, 11:38 AM
I would have to say that they performed like Chief wanna be's.
Got some good O help, lignoredt the D.

Rain Man
04-21-2005, 11:42 AM
If cmh6476 is correct that there should be a second round pick for the Raiduhs in there, then it makes a difference. As it stands, it actually doesn't look like they made out very well overall, even with the Jolley ripoff trade.

Spicy McHaggis
04-21-2005, 11:48 AM
They got a great deal from the Jets but I wouldn't have done the Moss deal.

tyton75
04-21-2005, 11:50 AM
in my estimation.. The Raiders are just throwing their team away... granted.. Moss is great.. but they could have had a great, younger reciever with that pick... they have given up a LOT and recieved little in return

nmt1
04-21-2005, 11:50 AM
I don't like it. They got a malcontent who can't be counted on. Moss' upside is tremendous and they're likely to reap some of the rewards but he'll likely have a negative impact in the locker room. A negative impact on a team that already had/has locker room chemistry problems.
Another reason not to like it is now they have a total of three picks in the entire draft. Most everyone will agree that the way to build a team is through the draft. I'd like to have more picks than that even if I sucked at drafting good players.
Just my opinion.

Spicy McHaggis
04-21-2005, 11:53 AM
in my estimation.. The Raiders are just throwing their team away... granted.. Moss is great.. but they could have had a great, younger reciever with that pick... they have given up a LOT and recieved little in return

If they had made the Buchanon and Jolley trade but kept the 7th it would have been a very viable option to move up for Edwards.

keg in kc
04-21-2005, 11:54 AM
They've done well in terms of acquiring draft picks, but I don't believe they've done anything that will help them in the next couple of years. Randy Moss and LaMont Jordan may, and probably will, help them offensively. But they'll be fielding a team without a defense. We all know our issues on that side of the ball. The Raiders have been even worse. And, so far, to improve the unit, they've traded away two first round picks from '02.

Mr. Laz
04-21-2005, 11:54 AM
i think they did a great job of doing the trades... they seemed to have gotten the better of each trade by a significant margin.


as for the team they are assembling and addressing specific team needs.... they haven't done very well at all. For each step forward they have taken a step backwards.

patteeu
04-21-2005, 12:24 PM
I'd say you did pretty good, if you ignore what your team needs were going into the off-season.

A team that is so bad on the defensive side of the ball, not only getting rid of defensive talent, but being aggressive in aquiring offensive talent.

It just doesn't make a lot of sense for the Raiders.

I agree. They gutted an already bad defense (and might go on to lose Woodson as well) to get a WR who is the best in the league on a good day but who is also a high risk of causing chemistry problems. And to do this they traded way down in the 1st round in exchange for a 3rd rounder and a couple of late 2nd day picks to make their defense revamp job that much more difficult. As a Chiefs fan, I like what I see.

If you break the trade down based on the draft value chart stuck at the top of the Lounge, you see that Oakland gave up picks valued at 1519.2 and received picks valued at 901.4. The difference is 617.2 which is somewhere between the 30th (620) and 31st (610) picks overall.

So speaking in terms of draft value, the trade can be boiled down to:

received:
Randy Moss

dealt:
Philip Buchanon
Napoleon Harris
Doug Jolley
pick 1.30

Here is a breakdown of the draft values for the actual picks involved in the trade:


received:

pick 1.26 700
pick 3.14 (78 overall) 200
pick 7.26 (240 overall) 1.4
------
Total 901.4
dealt:

pick 1.07 1500
pick 7.05 (219 overall) 4.8
pick 6.38 (212 overall) 7.6
pick 6.40 (214 overall) 6.8
------
Total 1519.2

Mr. Laz
04-21-2005, 12:39 PM
The difference is 617.2 which is somewhere between the 30th (620) and 31st (610) picks overall.

So speaking in terms of draft value, the trade can be boiled down to:

received:
Randy Moss

dealt:
Philip Buchanon
Napoleon Harris
Doug Jolley
pick 1.30

Here is a breakdown of the draft values for the actual picks involved in the trade:


received:

pick 1.26 700
pick 3.14 (78 overall) 200
pick 7.26 (240 overall) 1.4
------
Total 901.4
dealt:

pick 1.07 1500
pick 7.05 (219 overall) 4.8
pick 6.38 (212 overall) 7.6
pick 6.40 (214 overall) 6.8
------
Total 1519.2


didn't oak.land also get a 1st and 3rd next year as well?

1st - 1300 (est)
3rd - 200 (est)

cmh6476
04-21-2005, 12:42 PM
If cmh6476 is correct that there should be a second round pick for the Raiduhs in there, then it makes a difference. As it stands, it actually doesn't look like they made out very well overall, even with the Jolley ripoff trade.
i believe they got a second from the texans for buchanan then traded that pick to the jets to pickup an extra first, so that pick is a wash. I think.

cmh6476
04-21-2005, 12:44 PM
Another reason not to like it is now they have a total of three picks in the entire draft. Most everyone will agree that the way to build a team is through the draft. I'd like to have more picks than that even if I sucked at drafting good players.
Just my opinion.
This isn't their entire draft. This is just what picks they have traded, and what picks they have received via trades. they still have their own 2nd rounder. Again, I think.

patteeu
04-21-2005, 12:50 PM
didn't oak.land also get a 1st and 3rd next year?

1st - 1300 (est)
3rd - 200 (est)

You might be right, I don't know. I was just going off of the details of the OP.

BTW, do you have a good source for estimating the value of future draft picks?

buddha
04-21-2005, 12:52 PM
I think the Raiders have done a great job during the offseason. Moss is an elite receiver, who demands constant attention by defenses. When you add him to Curry and Porter, Oakland has a scary good WR corps! Yes, he's a head case, but I bet he'll mind his business around Evil Al. Picking up Jordan was a steal. This kid is fast and strong! He will surprise a lot of people this year.

Buchanon was a bust at CB. He was horrible, and not likely to improve enough to be servicable. They wasted a high pick on him, but they salvaged a 2nd and 3rd for him, which is better than what KC has done with their crappy early picks (allow them to suck on the field until the buzzards circle, and then cut them).

The Raiders defense is going to be one of the weakest in the league next year. They will make some more moves to address that, but that's just how it's going to be. What they did was improve their offense to the point where they will be able to outscore some teams, which is better than where they were last season.

Mr. Laz
04-21-2005, 12:55 PM
You might be right, I don't know. I was just going off of the details of the OP.

BTW, do you have a good source for estimating the value of future draft picks?
i think people general say that future draft picks are valued 1 round lower on the standard value draft chart.

ie 1st round pick from next year is worth the value of a 2nd round pick this year.


although i think that's a little extreme to me ... because the pick's value will appreciate over time and become worth the same amount.