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View Full Version : Just a hunch


Idahojim
04-21-2005, 06:25 PM
I have no inside information from my connections with kcchiefs.com, but I can't help but think that something fairly big is going on between the Chiefs and the Dolphins. I really wouldn't be surprised if the Chiefs not only ended up with Surtain, but also the Dolphins first round pick. It could involve more draft picks this year as well as one of our expendable safeties in a trade.

Just a gut feeling.

What do you think?

And I think they'd take Derrick Johnson with that 1st round pick. Something tells me they really want this guy.

Count Alex's Losses
04-21-2005, 06:26 PM
If Carl pulled off a whiz-bang of a deal like that, I'd forgive him FUEVAH!

Sure-Oz
04-21-2005, 06:28 PM
Nice thoughts, likely to happen, NO!! I'd love to be proven wrong though, tomorrow and saturday will be interesting, is the board ready for it?

Woodrow Call
04-21-2005, 06:28 PM
That would be neat.

nychief
04-21-2005, 06:30 PM
I have a hunch that the Fins and Chiefs are going to do this...

Chiefs send:
2nd Rd. Pick
Larry Johnson
Brad Budde
Emile Harry
and Dino Hackett

Dolphins send:
Surtain
the 2nd pick
Super Duper
and David Shula.

chop
04-21-2005, 06:31 PM
If they get the Dolphins 1st round pick I would consider selecting Edwards instead of Johnson.

Skip Towne
04-21-2005, 06:32 PM
Nothing that good is going to happen. Carl, remember?

Cochise
04-21-2005, 06:34 PM
If they get the Dolphins 1st round pick I would consider selecting Edwards instead of Johnson.

Tempting... I would want Johnson, but a playmaker like Edwards doesn't come along very often.

Woodrow Call
04-21-2005, 06:35 PM
If they get the Dolphins 1st round pick I would consider selecting Edwards instead of Johnson.

:cuss:

Johnson or Rolle would have to be the pick at 2.

Count Alex's Losses
04-21-2005, 06:35 PM
If we had two firsts I'd want us to draft a wide receiver, too.

ChiefsFanatic
04-21-2005, 06:35 PM
I have no inside information from my connections with kcchiefs.com, but I can't help but think that something fairly big is going on between the Chiefs and the Dolphins. I really wouldn't be surprised if the Chiefs not only ended up with Surtain, but also the Dolphins first round pick. It could involve more draft picks this year as well as one of our expendable safeties in a trade.

Just a gut feeling.

What do you think?

And I think they'd take Derrick Johnson with that 1st round pick. Something tells me they really want this guy.

I do not want to be rude, but come with something sustantial or STFU.

Please keep our forums clean. You could say that aliens have agreed to a sign and trade deal with the Frankfurt Rhein, and preface it with "Just a hunch"

Cochise
04-21-2005, 06:37 PM
If we had two firsts I'd want us to draft a wide receiver, too.

Me too.

Surtain and two firsts, for Edwards and Rogers?

Complete poppycock of course, but we can dream...

Sure-Oz
04-21-2005, 06:38 PM
I don't see how we could trade up to the #2 pick anyway, we don't have enough picks and quality ones.

tk13
04-21-2005, 06:38 PM
If we got their #2, I imagine we'd have to give up the 15 pick to get up there. If we were to do that, I'd definitely turn right around and be talking to anybody that has two first rounders or a high 2nd rounder that might want to trade up for Edwards or somebody else at the top of the board.

nychief
04-21-2005, 06:39 PM
to get the number two we would have to give up our fist and 2nd and probably the 4th also.

sparkky
04-21-2005, 06:44 PM
I just heard on 61 (I think, was in the middle of a storm) that a deal between KC and miami could be announced by noon tommorrow. It was reported by a "major" news outlet but didn't catch which one.
PS: draft special on ESPN right now.

Woodrow Call
04-21-2005, 06:46 PM
15th=1050
46th=440
116=62
Wesley/Woods=?

The 2nd overall=2600+Surtain

The Chiefs would have to give next years 1st and 3rd or trade LJ. I can't see it happening.

Alphaman
04-21-2005, 06:47 PM
I have no inside information from my connections with kcchiefs.com, but I can't help but think that something fairly big is going on between the Chiefs and the Dolphins. I really wouldn't be surprised if the Chiefs not only ended up with Surtain, but also the Dolphins first round pick. It could involve more draft picks this year as well as one of our expendable safeties in a trade.

Just a gut feeling.

What do you think?

And I think they'd take Derrick Johnson with that 1st round pick. Something tells me they really want this guy.

I don't think so Ijim. It's a good thought and would be worth it to send them #15, #46, our 4th and a 1st next year, because we could probably trade down to 5, 7 or 9 and get a 1st next year and a 2nd this year.

However, I think Miami believes they can get those same deals and still get quality picks for Surtain.

If you are truly basing this on a feeling, I think it's that burrito you had for lunch.

Mr. Laz
04-21-2005, 06:47 PM
I really wouldn't be surprised if the Chiefs not only ended up with Surtain, but also the Dolphins first round pick. It could involve more draft picks this year as well as one of our expendable safeties in a trade.

Just a gut feeling. What do you think?

And I think they'd take Derrick Johnson with that 1st round pick. Something tells me they really want this guy.

:thumb: PBJ PBJ
step 1:

Chiefs trade with Miami before the draft because of the need for sign and trade on Surtain.

Miami gets:

two 1st (this year 1050pts, next - 1050?? pts)
2nd (430 pts)
3rd (next year's - 195?? pts)
4th (72 pts)
6th (22 pts)

Total points = 2819


Kansas city gets

1st (2600 pts)
CB Patrick surtain (3rd round value 200pts)

part of fantasy is the we can get miami to settle for a 3rd, when they asked for a 2nd. Value for 3rd is 200pts)

Total points = 2800


step 2:

on the clock - the 49ers take a QB, leaving Braylon Edwards there at #2

the chiefs trade down with the Vikings so they can get Edwards to replace Moss.

chiefs get

1st - 7th pick (1500 pts)
1st - 18th pick (900 pts)
3rd - (180 pts)

total - 2580 pts


Vikings get

1st round pick (2600 pts)

Step 3: The Picks

Round 1
7th - OLB Derrick Johnson
18th - CB Carlos Rogers

Round 2
none

Round 3
WR - Mark Bradley (who the chiefs seem to want)
DE - Chris Canty, Virginia

4th round
none

5th - 7th round
6 picks - BAA

DTLB58
04-21-2005, 06:52 PM
I have a hunch that on Saturday night we are all gonna be dissapointed again.... :doh!:

I just can't get last year out of mind with the Kris Wilson pick. Carl has to prove it to me before I think they are gonna do anything but stay at 15 and draft a tweener :harumph:

Alphaman
04-21-2005, 06:53 PM
Laz that looks very doable and I'd make that deal. The change I would make is to trade down from 18 to acquire a 2nd round pick. I think Rogers is gone by 18, in fact I don't expect him to get out of the top 10.

HemiEd
04-21-2005, 06:55 PM
ROFL And the Chiefs new salary cap number is up to 167,000,000.00. It is fun to think it could happen though. ROFL

CosmicPal
04-21-2005, 06:59 PM
Laz - did you email that to Carl like I asked you to the other day?

Lucky you, we have Carl's email address today....now would be a good time to email that to him.

Mr. Laz
04-21-2005, 07:03 PM
Laz that looks very doable and I'd make that deal. The change I would make is to trade down from 18 to acquire a 2nd round pick. I think Rogers is gone by 18, in fact I don't expect him to get out of the top 10.
we could always trade like you say... get a 2nd back and then draft CB marlin jackson.

go bowe
04-21-2005, 07:07 PM
to get the number two we would have to give up our fist and 2nd and probably the 4th also.the number two selection in the draft is 2,600 points on the draft value chart...

our 15th selection is 1,050 points and our 2nd round pick is worth 430 points...

we can't trade our third round comp pick and 4th round picks are worth 112 or less points and fifth rounders are worth even less...

i haven't done the math, but i would guess that we don't have enough trade value in all our picks combined to trade for the number two spot overall...

2,600 is a lot of points...

Brock
04-21-2005, 07:08 PM
Minnesota might move up. I don't think there's a chance in hell KC can or will.

htismaqe
04-21-2005, 07:09 PM
:cuss:

Johnson or Rolle would have to be the pick at 2.

That's just dumb, selecting either one of them that high.

If we were to acquire Miami's #2 pick and we really wanted Rolle or Johnson, the best thing to do would be to trade down into the 6-8 range.

Mr. Laz
04-21-2005, 07:09 PM
Laz - did you email that to Carl like I asked you to the other day?

Lucky you, we have Carl's email address today....now would be a good time to email that to him.

done!! :thumb:

Logical
04-21-2005, 07:12 PM
Although this is a wonderful thought. I am extremely doubtful we can afford Surtain, Bell, Knight and the #2 pick in the entire draft cap wise.

Mr. Laz
04-21-2005, 07:17 PM
Although this is a wonderful thought. I am extremely doubtful we can afford Surtain, Bell, Knight and the #2 pick in the entire draft cap wise.

dude... your such a buzz kill


always bringing me down :shake:









:p

go bowe
04-21-2005, 07:18 PM
Although this is a wonderful thought. I am extremely doubtful we can afford Surtain, Bell, Knight and the #2 pick in the entire draft cap wise.dammit...

the evil mastermind strikes again...

ruining a perfectly good fantasy... :huh: :huh: :huh:

Logical
04-21-2005, 07:19 PM
dude... your such a buzz kill


always bringing me down :shake:









:p

JennyGump and I are assholes like that. We kill Hamsters and Dreams.

Count Alex's Losses
04-21-2005, 07:20 PM
JennyGump and I are assholes like that. We kill Hamsters and Dreams.

You're infatuated with her, aren't you? ROFL

Logical
04-21-2005, 07:23 PM
You're infatuated with her, aren't you? ROFL

Thats me taking ZachKC's internet loves on the rebound.

Woodrow Call
04-21-2005, 07:25 PM
That's just dumb, selecting either one of them that high.

If we were to acquire Miami's #2 pick and we really wanted Rolle or Johnson, the best thing to do would be to trade down into the 6-8 range.

You are correct on both counts. I am dumb and trading down from the 2 would of course be the correct approach.

TEX
04-21-2005, 07:44 PM
That's just dumb, selecting either one of them that high.

If we were to acquire Miami's #2 pick and we really wanted Rolle or Johnson, the best thing to do would be to trade down into the 6-8 range.


Well that depends. I'm the type that will do whatever it takes to get my player. I don't care what others preceive as dumb, as long as I get my player. If I targeted one guy and felt that the only sure way I would get him would be to select him at # 2 - then I do it every time rather than take the chance to get "more" if I trade down. Just the way I'm wired I guess. :hmmm:

whoman69
04-21-2005, 07:59 PM
This is a big hunch which will never happen. That's alot of cap money, and putting alot of value on one of our safeties. Additionally, we would be trading away any significant picks that we have. This is especially bad when there aren't as big of stars in the draft and the top guys will not live up to the big money.

Phobia
04-21-2005, 08:01 PM
Recently seen on Warpaint Illustrated:

Columnist from kcchiefs.com claims deal for Dolphins 1st round pick and Surtain could be done soon.

htismaqe
04-21-2005, 08:52 PM
Well that depends. I'm the type that will do whatever it takes to get my player. I don't care what others preceive as dumb, as long as I get my player. If I targeted one guy and felt that the only sure way I would get him would be to select him at # 2 - then I do it every time rather than take the chance to get "more" if I trade down. Just the way I'm wired I guess. :hmmm:

You would be an NFL GM for long. That right there is a "Bobby Beathard" scenario.

Phobia
04-21-2005, 09:00 PM
You would be an NFL GM for long. That right there is a "Bobby Beathard" scenario.

Beathard was AWESOME until Ryan Leaf. If he retired the year before he selected Leaf, he'd be remembered as on of the alltime great GM's.

Hoover
04-21-2005, 09:02 PM
I think #2 is too high for the Chiefs. I do think we trade out of 15 and pick up another 2nd round pick.

Low First Round Pick: CB, best on the board.

Our 2nd Round Pick: DE or OLB

Our New 2nd Round Pick: Could be Surtain

I think the Chiefs will end up having at least 4 picks on the first day. Carl wil only swing the trade for Surtain if we can trade down in the first for more first day picks.

|Zach|
04-21-2005, 09:03 PM
Thats me taking ZachKC's internet loves on the rebound.
I gave Jim the internet version of my little black book. ROFL

jcroft
04-21-2005, 09:05 PM
Frankly, if the Chiefs picked Johnson with the second pick in the draft, I'd be pissed. I've said all along I'd love to have Johnson and Surtain, but Johnson is simply a bad value at #2. He can be had for a much lower pick -- possibly even pick #15.

There are only two reasonable things for the CHiefs to do with pick #2, if they had it:

1. Pick Edwards or Williams, whichever the Chiefs have higher.
2. Trade down again (probably to the 5-8 picks).

Personally, i'd favor #2, but wouldn't complain about #1, either.

The Bad Guy
04-21-2005, 09:27 PM
to get the number two we would have to give up our fist and 2nd and probably the 4th also.

To get to #2 we'd have to give up our first, 2nd, 4th and first and second next year.

royr17
04-21-2005, 09:36 PM
Maybe the Chiefs and Surtain have reached a contract agreement but its just that the compensation is a problem and the chiefs arent goin to announce anything about it until draft day.

I think Pat Surtain will be a chief. Come on Carl get the deal done.

Rain Man
04-21-2005, 11:28 PM
Beathard was AWESOME until Ryan Leaf. If he retired the year before he selected Leaf, he'd be remembered as on of the alltime great GM's.

Was '98 his first year with the Chargers? Because he was stinkville for his entire career with San Diego. Cripes. Every year he'd give away his first round pick the following year to get a lower pick and pick up someone like Mikhael Ricks.

philfree
04-21-2005, 11:38 PM
To get to #2 we'd have to give up our first, 2nd, 4th and first and second next year.

I think teams will be able to trade up in this years draft for less then "chart value" because the teams don't think there are any players worth trading up for. Some of the top teams have been trying to trade down but they haven't gotten done and I think that illustrates what I posted. It would still take alot for us to move up that far in the draft. Damn as much as we need D if I got the #2 pick I gotta take Braylon Edwards as he would be on the top of my draft board for the whole draft. He's as close to a can't miss prospect as there is.


PhilFree:arrow:

keg in kc
04-22-2005, 12:37 AM
It's a nice dream but my gut says that's all it is. And if we did get to #2, I'd say Braylon Edwards is the way to go, regardless of the defense. But I'm not sure how all this would feasibly fit under the cap.

TRR
04-22-2005, 12:40 AM
It's a nice dream but my gut says that's all it is. And if we did get to #2, I'd say Braylon Edwards is the way to go, regardless of the defense. But I'm not sure how all this would feasibly fit under the cap.


I know everyone is enamored with Edwards, however, I watched the guy weekend after weekend at Michigan, and I think he has bust written all over him. JMHO. However, Mike Williams is a different story.

IMHO, Braylon Edwards = David Terrell/Peter Warrick.

keg in kc
04-22-2005, 12:59 AM
I'll preface this by reiterating that I'm a Michigan fan, so there's an obvious bias. That said, I guess we just have a difference of opinion. I saw his entire career and I see a superstar. And I think Mike Williams is the next Mikhael Ricks.

Well, no, not really, but it sounded good. ROFL

I see Edwards as a sure thing, as much as there can be one in the NFL draft, but Williams I just don't know. :shrug: