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View Full Version : What's the deal with the linebacker positions?


Rain Man
04-25-2005, 11:15 AM
I must admit, I'm confused.

I'm too lazy to click all the links, but in their draft-day interview Carl and Dick said that they were going to have Derrick Johnson "compete with Scott Fujita on the left side," and that they don't use SLB and WLB designations, but rather LOLB and ROLB designations.

This confused me, because I recalled Fujita playing on the right side, which is usually the weak side for most teams. He didn't play over the tight end, and the tight end is usually lined up on the left side of the defense.

Then I went to the Chiefs' official depth chart, and they list Fujita as the LOLB. They also list Hicks as the LDE, and I freaking know that Hicks was lined up on the strong side (left side).

Am I missing something? I would swear that Fujita was a ROLB lined up on the weak side, which would make a lot of sense in their comments about Johnson and competition for the starting spot. But this disagrees with the documentation and statements that would show Fujita lining up behind Hicks.

What's the deal?

Count Zarth
04-25-2005, 11:17 AM
Fujita played LOLB last year. For some reason, although DJ is CLEARLY a perfect ROLB (Barber's spot last year), they want him at LOLB.

Somehow I think we'll end up with Fujita, Bell and Johnson on the field...they are the three best.

Ideally, Barber comes back early from his injury and we have a GREAT LB crew of Barber, Bell, Johnson.

Rain Man
04-25-2005, 11:22 AM
So they want Johnson to line up over the tight end? That seems like the opposite of what I would expect.

jspchief
04-25-2005, 11:22 AM
I'm not convinced Barber is better than Fujita.

jcroft
04-25-2005, 11:22 AM
Fujita definitely played mostly at the left (generally strong-side) spot. I also really hope we can get Johnson, Bell and Fujita on the filed at the same time, as they seem to be the best three. Barber is pretty decent when healthy, but I'd rather see Fujita starting...

ROYC75
04-25-2005, 11:22 AM
Me thinks CP and DV are playing with the other GM's and HC's heads.

beer bacon
04-25-2005, 11:25 AM
The coaching staff is saying Barber is healing up nicely and acting like he will be ready by the beginning of the season. Maybe they want our starting LB corps to be Barber--Bell--Johnson at the beginning of the season.

BigRedChief
04-25-2005, 11:44 AM
The coaching staff is saying Barber is healing up nicely and acting like he will be ready by the beginning of the season. Maybe they want our starting LB corps to be Barber--Bell--Johnson at the beginning of the season.

Believe it when we see it. His career was toast a month ago now hes goning to be ready for the season? Some misinformation is out there for sure.

DJ not playing and will "compete" for a position sounds like standard DV verbiage. DJ should blow Barber and Fajita out of a starting spot.

Mr. Kotter
04-25-2005, 12:01 PM
Believe it when we see it. His career was toast a month ago now hes goning to be ready for the season? Some misinformation is out there for sure.

DJ not playing and will "compete" for a position sounds like standard DV verbiage. DJ should blow Barber and Fajita out of a starting spot.

DJ will eventually settle at ROLB, which is more often the "weak" side...however, I don't think it really matters. The best three LBs will be on the field; if Barber is really 100% it will be Barber, Bell, and Johnson. Fujita might have passed Barber last year, but TC will sort that out.

As much as I LOVE DJ, I looked up the history of Butkus Award winners out of curriosity: I wish I hadn't--history has not been kind. Aside from Morgan, Arrington, Hardy, Jones and DT, the list doesn't inspire confidence (jury is still out on Lehman,Calmus and maybe Claiborne).... :(

2004 - Derrick Johnson, Texas
2003 - Teddy Lehman, Oklahoma
2002 - E.J. Henderson, Maryland
2001 - Rocky Calmus, Oklahoma
2000 - Dan Morgan, Miami
1999 - LaVar Arrington, Penn State
1998 - Chris Claiborne, USC
1997 - Andy Katzenmoyer, Ohio State
1996 - Matt Russell, Colorado
1995 - Kevin Hardy, Illinois
1994 - Dana Howard, Illinois
1993 - Trev Alberts, Nebraska
1992 - Marvin Jones, Florida State
1991 - Erick Anderson, Michigan
1990 - Alfred Williams, Colorado
1989 - Percy Snow, Michigan State
1988 - Derrick Thomas, Alabama
1987 - Paul McGowan, Florida State
1986 - Brian Bosworth, Oklahoma
1985 - Brian Bosworth, Oklahoma

htismaqe
04-25-2005, 12:39 PM
Looking at this list, I think our biggest worry is keeping him healthy. There aren't alot of true busts on the list.

2004 - Derrick Johnson, Texas -- jury's out
2003 - Teddy Lehman, Oklahoma -- played well last year IMO
2002 - E.J. Henderson, Maryland -- starting to become a force
2001 - Rocky Calmus, Oklahoma -- hasn't yet lived up to the hype
2000 - Dan Morgan, Miami -- solid but slowed by injuries
1999 - LaVar Arrington, Penn State -- superstar
1998 - Chris Claiborne, USC -- reminds me of some of our LB's, fast but not field aware, also lacks power
1997 - Andy Katzenmoyer, Ohio State -- career cut short, head injury IIRC?
1996 - Matt Russell, Colorado -- ???
1995 - Kevin Hardy, Illinois -- very solid LB
1994 - Dana Howard, Illinois -- ???
1993 - Trev Alberts, Nebraska -- career cut short by injury
1992 - Marvin Jones, Florida State -- solid off-and-on starter, not bad
1991 - Erick Anderson, Michigan -- drafted by the Chiefs, never made the team, don't remember why
1990 - Alfred Williams, Colorado -- was pretty solid even though the Broncos moved him around
1989 - Percy Snow, Michigan State -- career cut short by injury
1988 - Derrick Thomas, Alabama -- HoFer
1987 - Paul McGowan, Florida State -- ???
1986 - Brian Bosworth, Oklahoma --B BUST
1985 - Brian Bosworth, Oklahoma

Count Zarth
04-25-2005, 12:46 PM
Looking at this list, I think our biggest worry is keeping him healthy. There aren't alot of true busts on the list.

2004 - Derrick Johnson, Texas -- jury's out
2003 - Teddy Lehman, Oklahoma -- played well last year IMO
2002 - E.J. Henderson, Maryland -- starting to become a force
2001 - Rocky Calmus, Oklahoma -- hasn't yet lived up to the hype
2000 - Dan Morgan, Miami -- solid but slowed by injuries
1999 - LaVar Arrington, Penn State -- superstar
1998 - Chris Claiborne, USC -- reminds me of some of our LB's, fast but not field aware, also lacks power
1997 - Andy Katzenmoyer, Ohio State -- career cut short, head injury IIRC?
1996 - Matt Russell, Colorado -- ???
1995 - Kevin Hardy, Illinois -- very solid LB
1994 - Dana Howard, Illinois -- ???
1993 - Trev Alberts, Nebraska -- career cut short by injury
1992 - Marvin Jones, Florida State -- solid off-and-on starter, not bad
1991 - Erick Anderson, Michigan -- drafted by the Chiefs, never made the team, don't remember why
1990 - Alfred Williams, Colorado -- was pretty solid even though the Broncos moved him around
1989 - Percy Snow, Michigan State -- career cut short by injury
1988 - Derrick Thomas, Alabama -- HoFer
1987 - Paul McGowan, Florida State -- ???
1986 - Brian Bosworth, Oklahoma --B BUST
1985 - Brian Bosworth, Oklahoma


I bet alot of "college award winner" lists are alot worse...particularly QB.

Mr. Kotter
04-25-2005, 12:58 PM
I bet alot of "college award winner" lists are alot worse...particularly QB.

That's a very good point.

patteeu
04-25-2005, 01:18 PM
I'm sorry I can't help, Rain Man. I'm an expert on Carl Peterson: the good man behind the evil caricature; not on linebacker terminology or Chiefs' defensive concepts.

ct
04-25-2005, 01:19 PM
Left = Strong
Right = Weak

Chiefnj
04-25-2005, 01:22 PM
Why don't people want DJ lining up over the TE? On passing downs this would seem to make sense since DJ excelled in pass coverage with Texas. He's got the size and speed to keep up and defend someone like Gates.

patteeu
04-25-2005, 01:25 PM
Why don't people want DJ lining up over the TE? On passing downs this would seem to make sense since DJ excelled in pass coverage with Texas. He's got the size and speed to keep up and defend someone like Gates.

I'm guessing it's got more to do with the perception that he's not as strong when teams run at him as when they run away from him. It might also have something to do with having him line up behind Eric Hicks instead of Jared Allen for purposes of defending against the run. But like I said, I'm not expert on this stuff.

ct
04-25-2005, 01:37 PM
I'm guessing it's got more to do with the perception that he's not as strong when teams run at him as when they run away from him. It might also have something to do with having him line up behind Eric Hicks instead of Jared Allen for purposes of defending against the run. But like I said, I'm not expert on this stuff.

Or that 99.9% of planeteers think the prospect of DJ losing out to Fujita, leaving our 1st round draft choice on the bench with Kawika Mitchell starting SUCKS A$$!!!

htismaqe
04-25-2005, 01:38 PM
Why don't people want DJ lining up over the TE? On passing downs this would seem to make sense since DJ excelled in pass coverage with Texas. He's got the size and speed to keep up and defend someone like Gates.

I would say it depends on the situation, but I certainly would love to see him shutting down Gates. You are right, he can cover.

Mr. Kotter
04-25-2005, 01:39 PM
Why don't people want DJ lining up over the TE? On passing downs this would seem to make sense since DJ excelled in pass coverage with Texas. He's got the size and speed to keep up and defend someone like Gates.

Other than Gates, Heap, Shockey and now Miller....most TEs aren't the threat that TG is. We can game plan for that with DJ shadowing Gates or Heap, if we need to. My guess is with an athlete like DJ, you don't want TEs lockin' up on him more than you need to.

Besides, both outside LBs have to cover the end....remember? DV says we don't play weak or strong....eh, maybe we should?

patteeu
04-25-2005, 01:41 PM
Or that 99.9% of planeteers think the prospect of DJ losing out to Fujita, leaving our 1st round draft choice on the bench with Kawika Mitchell starting SUCKS A$$!!!

Oh, you are probably right. When he said "people," I wasn't thinking about ChiefsPlanet posters, I was thinking about real people. :p

Chiefnj
04-25-2005, 02:10 PM
Other than Gates, Heap, Shockey and now Miller....most TEs aren't the threat that TG is. We can game plan for that with DJ shadowing Gates or Heap, if we need to. My guess is with an athlete like DJ, you don't want TEs lockin' up on him more than you need to.

Besides, both outside LBs have to cover the end....remember? DV says we don't play weak or strong....eh, maybe we should?

If the NFL continues to enforce the no contact rule, I think TE's will benefit the most and you will need a better OLB on them. I thought I saw a stat on the increase in # of balls caught by TE's last year; maybe I was imagining it though.

Mr. Kotter
04-25-2005, 02:13 PM
If the NFL continues to enforce the no contact rule, I think TE's will benefit the most and you will need a better OLB on them. I thought I saw a stat on the increase in # of balls caught by TE's last year; maybe I was imagining it though.

I understand what you are saying, and it could be true....except

Then why the HELL do they let DBs and LBs beat the sh*t out of Tony?! :cuss:

:banghead:

JohnnyV13
04-25-2005, 03:09 PM
Guys,

Remember when Gunther came in and talked out how lining up Eric Hick OUTSIDE the TE would help his production? Ok, it didn't, but the relevant point here is in Gunther's D, the SSLB is stacked behind D linemen.

Also, did you notice that Fujita has had pretty good sack totals the last couple of years? THink about the faster DJ in the same spot, on the opposite side from Jared Allen.

Gee..sounds like we're hoping they become a a DT/Neil Smith combo for the new millenium.

Uncle_Ted
04-25-2005, 04:01 PM
If the NFL continues to enforce the no contact rule, I think TE's will benefit the most and you will need a better OLB on them. I thought I saw a stat on the increase in # of balls caught by TE's last year; maybe I was imagining it though.

There was a graphic during the draft showing the 8 or 9 teams where the TE led the team in receptions last year. So I think you're right.

Swanman
04-25-2005, 04:14 PM
Looking at this list, I think our biggest worry is keeping him healthy. There aren't alot of true busts on the list.


1994 - Dana Howard, Illinois -- ???


Dana Howard was an amazing college player but was under-sized for the NFL (not undersized like Ray Lewis supposedly was, Dana was a smidge taller than a dwarf compared to most football players). He played in one of the better linebacking corps in college history, which was comprised of him, John Holocek (had a few decent NFL seasons), Kevin Hardy and Simeon Rice. The year after Howard graduated, Rice and Hardy went 2 and 3 in the draft.

whoman69
04-25-2005, 06:03 PM
This is just another example of DV and Co fugging with the media. Do a search for WILL, MIKE, and SAM on Kcchiefs.com. They have used that terminology all the time.

ENDelt260
04-25-2005, 06:05 PM
I must admit, I'm confused.

After reading your post, so am I. Hell, I'm starting to doubt if my shoes are on the correct feet.

Skip Towne
04-25-2005, 06:19 PM
After reading your post, so am I. Hell, I'm starting to doubt if my shoes are on the correct feet.
Well, that's what I've always thought about you but I didn't want to say it.

ENDelt260
04-25-2005, 06:21 PM
Well, that's what I've always thought about you but I didn't want to say it.
You're such a nice guy, Skip. Always holding your tongue to spare the feelings of others.

Fairplay
04-25-2005, 06:26 PM
The coaching staff is saying Barber is healing up nicely and acting like he will be ready by the beginning of the season. Maybe they want our starting LB corps to be Barber--Bell--Johnson at the beginning of the season.



The key word being 'acting'.

Coach
04-25-2005, 06:40 PM
I think DJ should be the weak side LB where he can maximize his abilities of roaming the field and rush the passer.

However his coverage abilities is as good as Barbers from the reports that I have seen and the fact that I seen him play in the big XII. How many INT's he had last year?

I do know that he has the knack of forcing fumbles.