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View Full Version : Charger Fans are not afraid of the Chiefs.


sd4chiefs
04-26-2005, 06:29 PM
This should be fun. Check it out.

http://forum.signonsandiego.com/upload/showthread.php?threadid=44636

Nzoner
04-26-2005, 06:36 PM
Smack talk in April,damn I'm ready to get this season underway.

Bwana
04-26-2005, 06:38 PM
Tards ROFL

ChiefsCountry
04-26-2005, 06:40 PM
Man those fans are tards.

Crush
04-26-2005, 06:44 PM
http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/18/187093.jpg


Those poor fools.

milkman
04-26-2005, 06:44 PM
From Boltdiehard
"Mr. Green and Mr. Holmes, we'd like you to meet Mr. Merriman. Have a nice day and thanks for coming out. Oh and be sure to put some ice on that."

I think there's one little detail that Boltdiehard forgot.

Mr Green and Mister Holmes would like you to make the aquaintance of Willie Roaf, Brian Waters and Will Shields.

Don't worry that they knocked you on your ass.
They do that to everyone.

Nzoner
04-26-2005, 06:45 PM
Considering our 2nd stringers beat up on their first stringers in the last game of last season....no, not worried AT ALL LOL!!

Mr. Green and Mr. Holmes, we'd like you to meet Mr. Merriman. Have a nice day and thanks for coming out. Oh and be sure to put some ice on that.

:whackit:

beer bacon
04-26-2005, 06:45 PM
It almost seems like some Oakland fans from Raiderfans.net just transplanted themselves to the Chargers. That is probably what actually happened.

milkman
04-26-2005, 06:46 PM
Smack talk in April,damn I'm ready to get this season underway.

**** yeah!

Line 'em up, and let's get it on!

ChiefsCountry
04-26-2005, 06:47 PM
Our backup guard, Welbourn, is better than any of their starting lineman.

Frazod
04-26-2005, 06:48 PM
http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/18/187093.jpg


Those poor fools.

Yeah, that kind of says it all, doesn't it? ROFL

Iowanian
04-26-2005, 06:52 PM
I've been sparring with the Eggos for 3-4 seasons now....Boltdiehard is one of the handful that have been decent in their takes.(here is where this gets quoted and the sandy vajes riot upon my return).

2 years ago, I don't think I ever saw more than 20 fans online at one time........last year, they flooded the board with around 100.

You might find yourself dillusional about the seasons prospects too, if you'd only been a football fan for 9 months.

maybe its time for an iowani-visit to eggo online.

Skip Towne
04-26-2005, 06:56 PM
How quickly they forget all the drubbings we've laid on them.

Reaper16
04-26-2005, 07:02 PM
Sic Boomer on 'em.

Tribal Warfare
04-26-2005, 07:06 PM
After reading that I must say I'm dumber now.

HemiEd
04-26-2005, 07:10 PM
I've been sparring with the Eggos for 3-4 seasons now....Boltdiehard is one of the handful that have been decent in their takes.(here is where this gets quoted and the sandy vajes riot upon my return).

2 years ago, I don't think I ever saw more than 20 fans online at one time........last year, they flooded the board with around 100.

You might find yourself dillusional about the seasons prospects too, if you'd only been a football fan for 9 months.

maybe its time for an iowani-visit to eggo online.


I noticed that you kind of killed there thread, now they are all scared. ROFL

The Bad Guy
04-26-2005, 07:13 PM
Denial isn't only a river in Egypt.

The Chiefs added 2 Pro Bowlers to their defense, and added Sammy Knight - a solid safety along with Derrick Johnson.

The Chargers were bottom dwellers for far too long and I think last year was more of a fluke than anything.

The Chargers receivers don't scare me in the slightest with Surtain in our secondary now.

The Chiefs on paper actually have a much better defense.

Wile_E_Coyote
04-26-2005, 07:18 PM
if Colquitt punts the ball, Sproles better call for a fair catch or he will be the pressed ham in a Boe & Boomer sandwich

tomahawk kid
04-26-2005, 07:19 PM
You can tell Marty hasn't been there very long.

That guy could f#ck up Christmas.....

tk13
04-26-2005, 07:19 PM
You'd think they'll be alright as long as Brees doesn't come back down to earth. They did have a solid draft, and they're awful high on their draft picks. Their schedule is brutal though. They have to go play @ Philly, @ New England... and they also have to go @ Indy and host Pittsburgh, we don't play either of those teams. They have to come play @ Arrowhead in late December, and they've got a lot of east coast games that will be at 10am their time since our division plays the AFC and NFC East this year. They'll have to earn it.

Bwana
04-26-2005, 07:19 PM
It just kills me that after one decent season in like 20 years, they think they are bullet proof. It will be fun kicking their butts again this year.

Count Zarth
04-26-2005, 07:21 PM
http://forum.signonsandiego.com/upload/avatar.php?userid=7455&dateline=1072115559

tk13
04-26-2005, 07:22 PM
Sun 9/11 Dallas 4:15 pm
Sun 9/18 at Denver 4:15 pm
Sun 9/25 NY Giants 8:30 pm
Sun 10/2 at New England 1:00 pm
Mon 10/10 Pittsburgh 9:00 pm
Sun 10/16 at Oakland 4:15 pm
Sun 10/23 at Philadelphia 1:00 pm
Sun 10/30 Kansas City 4:05 pm
Sun 11/6 at NY Jets 1:00 pm
Bye
Sun 11/20 Buffalo 4:15 pm
Sun 11/27 at Washington 1:00 pm
Sun 12/4 Oakland 8:30 pm
Sun 12/11 Miami 4:15 pm
Sun 12/18 at Indianapolis 1:00 pm
Sat 12/24 at Kansas City 1:00 pm
Sat 12/31 Denver 4:30 pm

If they don't win their first couple home games, it might go downhill, real fast. That first half of the schedule is brutal.

tomahawk kid
04-26-2005, 07:22 PM
It just kills me that after one decent season in like 20 years, they think they are bullet proof. It will be fun kicking their butts again this year.

Won't it though?

I can't freaking wait to start layin the smack down.....

Nzoner
04-26-2005, 07:22 PM
You can tell Marty hasn't been there very long.

That guy could f#ck up Christmas.....

In our case Christmas Eve will do.

Bowser
04-26-2005, 07:28 PM
It's good to see that the Bolt faithful have found THE GLEAM.

Dipshits. ROFL

Count Zarth
04-26-2005, 07:31 PM
Isn't Gates holding out or somesuch? They drafted that Vincent Jackson kid to possibly make up for his absence. Either way, I'm scared of Vincent Jackson. I hope Brees was a fluke. Didn't they have a cake schedule?

Gravedigger
04-26-2005, 07:40 PM
I think it's hilarious that they don't fear us. The only reason they have any swagger ability is because their team stopped sucking. The chargers pretty much wrote breese off by drafting rivers in 04 draft and then what happens he suddenly becomes the mvp of thier team. The addition of Antonio Gates helped them as well but before last season they were bottom of the barrel. So with one good season under their belt they think they can kick ass. Now granted until I am proven wrong they will probably carry over from last year but before last year since 1995 they haven't done sh!t. I think people are underestimating us as usual but I reserve the right to tell them I told you so when they try to jump on the bandwagon that is headed to Detriot next february.

tk13
04-26-2005, 07:50 PM
Isn't Gates holding out or somesuch? They drafted that Vincent Jackson kid to possibly make up for his absence. Either way, I'm scared of Vincent Jackson. I hope Brees was a fluke. Didn't they have a cake schedule?
Well I don't know if their schedule was "cake", they took care of the bad teams we couldn't beat though. The two games they had different from us were at home against the Jets (lost) and @ Cleveland (won).... this year though, I think it's going to be tougher, just because of that road schedule. I think they'll be hard pressed to break even on the road....@ DEN, NE, OAK, PHI, NYJ, WSH, IND, KC.

Edubs
04-26-2005, 07:56 PM
No. As long it is a close game you can count on Trent Green to throw a timely INT or take a sack.

Lorenzo Neal will drill a hole through "dj."



I can't wait to kick their a$$!!!!

C-Mac
04-26-2005, 08:09 PM
Marty will have a very competetive team and if we hadnt dramatically improved the defense, they could take both games again. But since the D is going to be back in KC, the tables will turn. The Chiefs should only beat themselves this coming year, for there is far too much talent for any excuses now.

jspchief
04-26-2005, 08:17 PM
Considering the ass kicking their second stringers handed us last season, you can hardly blame them for being a bit cocky.



Personally, I'm holding my breath until we actually do something other than improve on paper.

Count Zarth
04-26-2005, 08:19 PM
Who's afraid of the big bad Chiefs?
Big bad wolf, big bad Chiefs?
Who's afraid of the big bad Chiefs?
Tra la la la la

C-Mac
04-26-2005, 08:25 PM
Considering the ass kicking their second stringers handed us last season, you can hardly blame them for being a bit cocky.

Personally, I'm holding my breath until we actually do something other than improve on paper.

All due respect, but Surtain, Bell, Knight are more than paper, they are proven quality players and the last game with their second stringers, was the last game of a lost season, how much do you really put in that?

jspchief
04-26-2005, 08:36 PM
All due respect, but Surtain, Bell, Knight are more than paper, they are proven quality players and the last game with their second stringers, was the last game of a lost season, how much do you really put in that?This wouldn't be the first time that a group of stars didn't mesh to make a good team. So far all we have done is improve on paper. Period. I'm fairly confident that it will equate to more than that, but I'm also hesitant to run my mouth too. At this point I'd rather let my team's play do the talking. Ask me tommorrow and I may feel different.

And as far as the performance of our team in that last game, I realize we mailed it in and played like a bunch of quitters. But if I were a Chargers fan, I might not see it that way. All I'm saying is that you can hardly blame them for being cocky, not too unlike the way we were after '03.

Spott
04-26-2005, 08:37 PM
The best thing is that they all still believe in Marty. The sad thing is that a lot of us believed that same BS about 8-10 years ago.

whoman69
04-26-2005, 08:38 PM
I think at times the Chargers got the job done last year with smoke and mirrors. Our experience last year can show how quickly a team that is not complete can fall back to Earth. Brees finally showed something last year, but who knows if he reverts to form. Certainly if their line falls apart, they are doomed.
I notice some said we did not have a pass rush when they only had 29 sacks last year to our 41. Our pass rush should be improved this year with better players in the front 7 and and improved secondary.

Chiefnj
04-26-2005, 09:41 PM
Why should anyone fear a team that hasn't won a playoff game in over 10 years?

Wallcrawler
04-26-2005, 10:03 PM
Ill let them have their fun, for now.

There are things going for the Chargers to support their craptalking.

1. Adding a bunch of guys to the team is good, but as we've seen before, particularly with the Redskins, on paper doesnt mean anything. On the field is what counts. When we see these guys playing together as a unit, Ill go away from that view more and more, but right now, its still just on paper potential.

2. The last time the Chiefs played the Chargers, very few starters saw action, and they kicked the living crap out of the Chiefs, with very little trouble. Our "superbowl caliber" offense was rendered completely ineffective by the Charger JV Squad.

3. Typically, games in the AFC West are usually close, no matter what type of year either team is having. That nice assbeating that the Chiefs put on Dungver at Arrowhead 45-17 was cool, but usually the games are pretty close, due to the teams playing against each other twice a year every year. In close games, anything can happen, and anyone can win.



But, on the other hand, Drew Brees has to prove that he is more than a one year wonder. The Chargers could have experienced a season much like the Chiefs 13-3 year in which strength of schedule made them appear much better than they actually were.

Shawne Merriman was a nice draft choice for the Chargers, but if they are disregarding the Derrick Johnson pick by KC, then they are really being ignorant, not objective. The Chiefs had a pretty good pass rush before these additions with 41 sacks, and now with the additions to all 3 tiers of the defense, you can figure on that number going up. The Chargers pass rush wasnt all that great, only giving them 29 sacks. Shawne Merriman better step up early and often to get those numbers up, because if Green is allowed to stand back there all day, its over.


I dont figure either team will be blown away this upcoming year. I figure on seeing the usual intense contests that the AFC West games usually are.

alanm
04-26-2005, 10:06 PM
Marty will have a very competetive team and if we hadnt dramatically improved the defense, they could take both games again. But since the D is going to be back in KC, the tables will turn. The Chiefs should only beat themselves this coming year, for there is far too much talent for any excuses now.The Chiefs do a good enough job of beating themselves most every year. Outside of the 1st Denver game that slipped away from them in the 3rd quarter and the last game at home against SD where they didn't even bother to show up. We were in every game last season. :banghead:

ChiefsCountry
04-26-2005, 10:39 PM
This one fag said the tight ends are a wash. Please Tony could wax Gates anyday.

Spicy McHaggis
04-26-2005, 10:51 PM
It just kills me that after one decent season in like 20 years, they think they are bullet proof. It will be fun kicking their butts again this year.

Amen to that. Bolts fans just need to realize that they gotta go sit back at the kids table again. The men need to eat.

Spicy McHaggis
04-26-2005, 10:56 PM
I loved this quote "Lorenzo Neal will drill a hole through "dj."

Man, that's awesome. Neal is about 2 months away from needing a walker and gained less yards on the ground last year than Trent did. I really hope we sweep these guys and just bury them at least one game.

Wallcrawler
04-27-2005, 03:00 AM
I loved this quote "Lorenzo Neal will drill a hole through "dj."

Man, that's awesome. Neal is about 2 months away from needing a walker and gained less yards on the ground last year than Trent did. I really hope we sweep these guys and just bury them at least one game.


Neal is pretty old now, but the yardage stat really doesnt mean anything. Lorenzo Neal is one of the better blocking fullbacks in the league, and besides, why would you have Lorenzo Neal carrying the ball when you have his blocking skills, and Tomlinson in the backfield?

As for Neal drilling a hole through DJ, I would say to that person that said that, that Neal had better eat his Wheaties that particular morning, because with Johnson's speed, Neal will be lucky to even get into position in time to get a finger on him, much less make a decent block.

Saggysack
04-27-2005, 03:48 AM
The Charger fans have alot to be proud of with their team. I really don't like to get into the prediction business so I will not claim to know who will come out on top in the AFCW when all is said and done. One thing I do know is that Marty, while not having very much success in the playoffs is a hellava regular season coach. No doubt about it. I have no doubt he will have the Chargers in contention for the playoffs, again. And I have no doubt that he has assembled a fine team in SD that should be the Chiefs main competition for the division title. What Marty does have is consistency, a trait that you will find among the top tier of coaches.

We can sit here and say Marty is not on in the upper echelon of coaches because of his failure in the playoffs. IMO it is a injustice to his coaching to claim that. IMO it is sheer stupidity to even think that. Let me tell you about one of the greatest coaches in sports history. His first name is Dean, last name Smith. Can anyone tell me how long it took this Dean Smith to win a national title? Well, before you answer that let me go ahead and tell you. It took Dean Smith 21yrs, yes 21yrs to win a national title. As Marty enters his 20th year as a head coach I can't help but think that his time is coming, and it will come, oh yes it will come. And it will come at our expense more than likely.

tk13
04-27-2005, 04:00 AM
Yeah, but with Marty he has a history of conversative play in pressure situations that leads to these "choke jobs" always happening. Last year he did the same thing... he had the #3 offense in the league and he just packed it in and settled for a 40+ yard field goal with a rookie kicker on a less than perfect weather day. I like Marty, I really do, and I even defended his decision at the time, but apparently it wasn't the right one. I'm not sure how much of it is being too conversative and how much is just bad luck, but I think now I'd rather have a team like we do with Vermeil where we're aggressive both offensively and defensively.

Saggysack
04-27-2005, 04:17 AM
Yeah, but with Marty he has a history of conversative play in pressure situations that leads to these "choke jobs" always happening. Last year he did the same thing... he had the #3 offense in the league and he just packed it in and settled for a 40+ yard field goal with a rookie kicker on a less than perfect weather day. I like Marty, I really do, and I even defended his decision at the time, but apparently it wasn't the right one. I'm not sure how much of it is being too conversative and how much is just bad luck, but I think now I'd rather have a team like we do with Vermeil where we're aggressive both offensively and defensively.

Yes, Marty has had his problems with game planning and game day decisions in the playoffs. No doubt about that. But, the same can be said with Vermeil in the regular season. Hell, last year we complained about Vermeil and poor clock management, terrible game planning, poor use of the red flags. Vermeil even admitted to the fact that those were his fault. No coach is perfect in that respect. I'm not going to claim either one is better than the other. In all honesty they really can't be compared to eachother. Two totally different styles of coaching being the main reason. I'll just say I would be happy with either Vermeil or Marty as the HC. I know they both can do an excellent job of building and coaching a football team.

htismaqe
04-27-2005, 05:10 AM
You'd think they'll be alright as long as Brees doesn't come back down to earth. They did have a solid draft, and they're awful high on their draft picks. Their schedule is brutal though. They have to go play @ Philly, @ New England... and they also have to go @ Indy and host Pittsburgh, we don't play either of those teams. They have to come play @ Arrowhead in late December, and they've got a lot of east coast games that will be at 10am their time since our division plays the AFC and NFC East this year. They'll have to earn it.

After the season he had last year, we'll see. Alot of times when guys are on that kind of leash, the OC and HC get antsy and think "Well, he handled that, let's loosen up a bit" and bingo, they fall on their face.

Brees was successful last year because they created an offense specifically for him, using Tomlinson. The guy compared to the top AFC QB's in every way -- except for yards. 1000-1500 LESS than every other top QB.

htismaqe
04-27-2005, 05:10 AM
Yes, Marty has had his problems with game planning and game day decisions in the playoffs. No doubt about that. But, the same can be said with Vermeil in the regular season. Hell, last year we complained about Vermeil and poor clock management, terrible game planning, poor use of the red flags. Vermeil even admitted to the fact that those were his fault. No coach is perfect in that respect. I'm not going to claim either one is better than the other. In all honesty they really can't be compared to eachother. Two totally different styles of coaching being the main reason. I'll just say I would be happy with either Vermeil or Marty as the HC. I know they both can do an excellent job of building and coaching a football team.

There's one CRUCIAL difference.

We KNOW Vermeil can win a Super Bowl.

Saggysack
04-27-2005, 05:19 AM
There's one CRUCIAL difference.

We KNOW Vermeil can win a Super Bowl.

We also know he can lose one too. To even add more to that. We know Vermeil can become TOO emotional at times. To the point where it clouds his judgement.

I'm not in the crowd that likes to say getting to the SB is enough. Because, it isn't enough. Gawd damnit, if they get to the SB I sure as hell ain't going to be happy if they lose. 2nd place is the 1st loser. Consolation prizes suck.

What I was trying to say earlier was that SD and KC both have great coaches with very, very good teams. It would not surprise me in the least to see SD come out on top again, and vice versa, it would not surprise me to see KC come out on top.

htismaqe
04-27-2005, 05:24 AM
We also know he can lose one too. To even add more to that. We know Vermeil can become TOO emotional at times. To the point where it clouds his judgement.

I'm not in the crowd that likes to say getting to the SB is enough. Because, it isn't enough. Gawd damnit, if they get to the SB I sure as hell ain't going to be happy if they lose. 2nd place is the 1st loser. Consolation prizes suck.

What I was trying to say earlier was that SD and KC both have great coaches with very, very good teams. It would not surprise me in the least to see SD come out on top again, and vice versa, it would not surprise me to see KC come out on top.

You have to GET to a Super Bowl before you can lose one.

keg in kc
04-27-2005, 05:25 AM
The 2004 Chargers were just the latest crappy team to overachieve for a season. It happens every year. They'll fall back to earth in 2005, probably pretty hard.

Saggysack
04-27-2005, 05:32 AM
You have to GET to a Super Bowl before you can lose one.

You also have to have a good regular season to get to the playoffs. 3 out of last 4 years the Vermeil led Chiefs have not had a good enough regular season to even sniff the playoffs.

We could go all day with little nuggets like this.

DaWolf
04-27-2005, 05:33 AM
The Chargers last year were a lot like some of Marty's Chiefs teams. Even Donnie Edwards was admitting that they were getting "bounces" going their way that they had not been getting the year before. sound familiar? Marty always gave us a team that one year, the bounces went our way, we win, then the next year the bounces evened out and we were mediocre. 11-5, 9-7, 13-3, 9-7, 13-3, 7-9 IIRC in '93-98. Every other year we got the first place schedule and fell back to earth...

Saggysack
04-27-2005, 05:34 AM
The 2004 Chargers were just the latest crappy team to overachieve for a season. It happens every year. They'll fall back to earth in 2005, probably pretty hard.

Sounds like the 2003 Chiefs.

keg in kc
04-27-2005, 05:37 AM
Sounds like the 2003 Chiefs.Eggzactly.

tk13
04-27-2005, 05:48 AM
The Chargers last year were a lot like some of Marty's Chiefs teams. Even Donnie Edwards was admitting that they were getting "bounces" going their way that they had not been getting the year before. sound familiar? Marty always gave us a team that one year, the bounces went our way, we win, then the next year the bounces evened out and we were mediocre. 11-5, 9-7, 13-3, 9-7, 13-3, 7-9 IIRC in '93-98. Every other year we got the first place schedule and fell back to earth...
I think they'll be a decent team as long as Brees doesn't come crashing down, that schedule though, it's tough on them this year. Just seems like they caught all their tough non-division games on the road. We really need to take advantage of the fact that we get teams like NE and Philly and the Jets in Arrowhead.

jspchief
04-27-2005, 08:04 AM
After the season he had last year, we'll see. Alot of times when guys are on that kind of leash, the OC and HC get antsy and think "Well, he handled that, let's loosen up a bit" and bingo, they fall on their face.



A lot like Jake Plummer. Shamarat was really conservative with Plummet the first year he was there, then they loosen up and Plummet reverts to his 4 INTs-a-game form.

Teams are going to start keying on Gates more, and while they may not stop him completely, they will slow him down. The rest of their WRs are not particularly scary. McCardell is a good possesion receiver, but he's not going to break a game open. I really think things hinge on Brees. Early stumbles may make them look hard at their multi-million dollar clipboard carrier.

I think they have a solid team, built on the core that Marty builds all his teams on, running game and defense. But just like Marty's teams in the past, I don't think they have what it takes to get over that final hump. I see them being a winning team with a shot at the play-offs every year, but never being any real threat for the Superbowl.

Boltergeist
04-27-2005, 10:47 AM
Hey guys,

I come in peace. Not particularly into the smack talk, but I thought I'd offer some comments.

Count me in with the Chargers fans that are not so cocky right now. I know how quickly things can change and I've been through too many lean years to count on us ripping through the league with the monster schedule we have to face. Also, there is no doubt the division is going to be much tougher next year and the potential impact of the Chiefs' draft and acquiring of Surtain is pretty obvious.

With that being said however, I find it funny that some are taking us lightly also. We did go 12-4 last year and lost games to Indy in overtime and Atlanta by 1 point on the road when we were winning for 90% of the game. We are probably also one of the deepest young teams in the league from top to bottom and we seem to really have taken steps to address our biggest weakness last year (pass rush) with what would seem to be a pretty good draft. We also get our #1 receiver back (Caldwell) who was off to a great start last year before getting hurt, and McCardell will be with us for a full year and TC instead of coming off the street to start 7 games. Perhaps even more importantly, LT will not be hobbled for 10 weeks with a groin injury like last year(knock on wood). Antonio Gates is also no mirage and teams starting double teaming and keying on him during the second half of last year. He is a nightmare matchup on 3rd down and in the red zone. Brees is also not asked to do anything extraordinary in our offense. His biggest improvement was simply cutting down on mistakes....throwing balls away instead of throwing into double coverage to try to make a play, etc. Defensively we have 3 first rounders and 1 high second round pick playing corner...all of whom are young and improving. Jammer has been fairly solid for us, and Drayton Florence is stepping up to be a good compliment. Our pass rush should definately be improved with Castillo and Merriman...this is what will help our pass defense the most. Our run D was #2 in the NFL last year and the addition of another 300 pounder to the line and a freak like "lights out" won't hurt that.

It's all speculation now, but I think it will boil down to the Chargers and Chiefs for the division with the Broncos being right there the entire way. The Raiders still have too many gaping holes on defense to keep up with the other three all year, although they'll be a nuisance to everyone.

This may be the most competitive and exciting AFC West we have ever seen. May the best team win.

htismaqe
04-27-2005, 10:48 AM
You also have to have a good regular season to get to the playoffs. 3 out of last 4 years the Vermeil led Chiefs have not had a good enough regular season to even sniff the playoffs.

We could go all day with little nuggets like this.

We could go all day, but I'd rather end it now.

Vermeil is one of a handful of coaches to take 2 teams to a Super Bowl.

If Marty keeps winning regular season games, he'll be the winningest coach in HISTORY never to play in a Super Bowl.

Enough said.

milkman
04-27-2005, 11:05 AM
Hey guys,

I come in peace. Not particularly into the smack talk, but I thought I'd offer some comments.

Count me in with the Chargers fans that are not so cocky right now. I know how quickly things can change and I've been through too many lean years to count on us ripping through the league with the monster schedule we have to face. Also, there is no doubt the division is going to be much tougher next year and the potential impact of the Chiefs' draft and acquiring of Surtain is pretty obvious.

With that being said however, I find it funny that some are taking us lightly also. We did go 12-4 last year and lost games to Indy in overtime and Atlanta by 1 point on the road when we were winning for 90% of the game. We are probably also one of the deepest young teams in the league from top to bottom and we seem to really have taken steps to address our biggest weakness last year (pass rush) with what would seem to be a pretty good draft. We also get our #1 receiver back (Caldwell) who was off to a great start last year before getting hurt, and McCardell will be with us for a full year and TC instead of coming off the street to start 7 games. Perhaps even more importantly, LT will not be hobbled for 10 weeks with a groin injury like last year(knock on wood). Antonio Gates is also no mirage and teams starting double teaming and keying on him during the second half of last year. He is a nightmare matchup on 3rd down and in the red zone. Brees is also not asked to do anything extraordinary in our offense. His biggest improvement was simply cutting down on mistakes....throwing balls away instead of throwing into double coverage to try to make a play, etc. Defensively we have 3 first rounders and 1 high second round pick playing corner...all of whom are young and improving. Jammer has been fairly solid for us, and Drayton Florence is stepping up to be a good compliment. Our pass rush should definately be improved with Castillo and Merriman...this is what will help our pass defense the most. Our run D was #2 in the NFL last year and the addition of another 300 pounder to the line and a freak like "lights out" won't hurt that.

It's all speculation now, but I think it will boil down to the Chargers and Chiefs for the division with the Broncos being right there the entire way. The Raiders still have too many gaping holes on defense to keep up with the other three all year, although they'll be a nuisance to everyone.

This may be the most competitive and exciting AFC West we have ever seen. May the best team win.

Welcome.
I think you have a very good take, and I agree with your overall assessment of the Chargers.

However, one thing that will always bite your team in the ass is Marty's conservative nature, especially if he feels his D can hold a 3-7 point lead early in the 2nd half.

Marty's nature being what it is, I would not be surprised to see you lose a number of close games this season against the tougher teams on the road.

Never, I repeat, never underestimate the moronacy (Is that even a word? If not it should be.) of Marty's conservatism.

I refer to it as Martyocre football.

Count Zarth
04-27-2005, 11:09 AM
It's all speculation now, but I think it will boil down to the Chargers and Chiefs for the division with the Broncos being right there the entire way. The Raiders still have too many gaping holes on defense to keep up with the other three all year, although they'll be a nuisance to everyone.


That's how I see it playing out.

alanm
04-27-2005, 11:10 AM
The Charger fans have alot to be proud of with their team. I really don't like to get into the prediction business so I will not claim to know who will come out on top in the AFCW when all is said and done. One thing I do know is that Marty, while not having very much success in the playoffs is a hellava regular season coach. No doubt about it. I have no doubt he will have the Chargers in contention for the playoffs, again. And I have no doubt that he has assembled a fine team in SD that should be the Chiefs main competition for the division title. What Marty does have is consistency, a trait that you will find among the top tier of coaches.

We can sit here and say Marty is not on in the upper echelon of coaches because of his failure in the playoffs. IMO it is a injustice to his coaching to claim that. IMO it is sheer stupidity to even think that. Let me tell you about one of the greatest coaches in sports history. His first name is Dean, last name Smith. Can anyone tell me how long it took this Dean Smith to win a national title? Well, before you answer that let me go ahead and tell you. It took Dean Smith 21yrs, yes 21yrs to win a national title. As Marty enters his 20th year as a head coach I can't help but think that his time is coming, and it will come, oh yes it will come. And it will come at our expense more than likely.
It took Tom Osborne 21 yrs. also.

Boltergeist
04-27-2005, 11:20 AM
Welcome.
I think you have a very good take, and I agree with your overall assessment of the Chargers.

However, one thing that will always bite your team in the ass is Marty's conservative nature, especially if he feels his D can hold a 3-7 point lead early in the 2nd half.

Marty's nature being what it is, I would not be surprised to see you lose a number of close games this season against the tougher teams on the road.

Never, I repeat, never underestimate the moronacy (Is that even a word? If not it should be.) of Marty's conservatism.

I refer to it as Martyocre football.


Alas, we are painfully aware of Martyball syndrome....aka...play not to lose instead of play to win. I will say that Marty has done some evolving over the years and has loosened the reigns on Cam Cameron's play calling quite a bit. I think we hate his bull headedness as much as you guys did in the 90's, and it sure came back to bite us in the @ss during the playoffs. I think it has changed a bit though, and my only hope is that Marty continues to loosen up as he gets more and more desperate to win a SB before he's done. He acknowledged several times last year that the game has evolved and you have to pass a lot to win in this day and age.

One thing we do like about Marty is that he kicks the crap out of the Raiders. That trend continues as we go for 5 straight against them.

I also have to give you guys props on this message board. I've lurked here quite a bit over the past 3 years and this is a top notch site. I've tried the Orange mane (very subpar IMO) and some other AFC West sites and this is far and away the best of any (including our own) with regards to football knowledge and good banter. We all have our share of trolls and smack talkers, but you guys have a very good ratio of solid, objective fans on here.

Bob Dole
04-27-2005, 11:25 AM
Bob Dole can sum up why the Chiefs will win the West in two words.

Rich Scanlon.

milkman
04-27-2005, 11:25 AM
Well stick around then, Boltergeist.

Good football takes are always welcome, even from lowly Bolt fans. :)

Iowanian
04-27-2005, 11:35 AM
hey Doltergueist....

welcome back to the promised land.

I'm curious to see what happens with the Bolts this year. I see potential for QB controversy if Brees doesn't start out hot. The Bolt line depth has been improved this offseason, but it just seems like there is alot of "Potential" that just isn't stepping up. McCardell, Caldwell and Parker and Gates are respectable, but not game breakers. I think Tomlinson is the best back in the league when healthy, so he's obviously a problem.

Last season, Bolt fans were calling for the heads of most of your secondary, including Jammer. I don't think Many would argue that Mary-man was a good addition with his speed and pass rush potential.

Truthfully, its ludicris for anyone to be making any predictions so early in the year. We all know too well that unfortunante injuries can strike in camps to Players No team could afford to lose. Its also been proven(see Chiefs last year) that success in a previous year doesn't guarantee success the next (See Post superbowl raider crapfest).

Good luck.......you, shamrock and a couple of others should stick around.

Chief Faithful
04-27-2005, 11:50 AM
Good to see a revival of Dolt fans as they were so close to extinction. I was getting tired of hearing the dilusional rantings of Donco fans as the lone voice of serious smack talk.

The Dolt fans have good reason to crow about their team. They have excellent young talent, one of the best coaches at producing intra-division wins, and a history of playing their best against the Chiefs every year.

Given the positives it will be interesting to see if they can repeat against a tougher schedule as a known quantity. They will not sneak up on anyone this year and everyone now has plenty of game tape to study so Brees and Gates will not have it so easy.

I hope the Dolts start fast as I don't want their fans to go into hinding again. It gets old with only Rat fans to spar against.

Always Charger
04-27-2005, 11:52 AM
hey Doltergueist....

Truthfully, its ludicris for anyone to be making any predictions so early in the year. We all know too well that unfortunante injuries can strike in camps to Players No team could afford to lose. Its also been proven(see Chiefs last year) that success in a previous year doesn't guarantee success the next (See Post superbowl raider crapfest).

Good luck.......you, shamrock and a couple of others should stick around.

I agree completley with this Iow, but what else is there to talk about?? :)

Boltergeist I think has said what most of us Charger fans think. You guys have improved graet on Defense, and always have had taht high powered offense....The addition of Crap Thorpe is a good one, I think he was your best pick up the second day.

Obviously Holmes healthy is just as ggod as they come, pretty unstoppable, and LJ has improved a LOT as his backup.

Hell, your offense we know what it cn do.....Now about your D...

DJ is going to be one of the best LB in the league a few years from now, but for your D is going to be an impact almost from day one. Sort of like Vilma for the Jets...

I just think that Jared Allen is going to be a great pass rusher, and the addition of Surtain will only improve your pass covering skills.

Bell, DJ, Fujita, Hall, Allen, Hicks, Surtain, Knight, Barber, to name a few, and coached by Gunther, that is a GOOD GOOD defense.....

Its going to be one heck of a season guys...... :drool:

patteeu
04-27-2005, 11:54 AM
Hey guys,

I come in peace. Not particularly into the smack talk, but I thought I'd offer some comments.

Count me in with the Chargers fans that are not so cocky right now. I know how quickly things can change and I've been through too many lean years to count on us ripping through the league with the monster schedule we have to face. Also, there is no doubt the division is going to be much tougher next year and the potential impact of the Chiefs' draft and acquiring of Surtain is pretty obvious.

With that being said however, I find it funny that some are taking us lightly also. We did go 12-4 last year and lost games to Indy in overtime and Atlanta by 1 point on the road when we were winning for 90% of the game. We are probably also one of the deepest young teams in the league from top to bottom and we seem to really have taken steps to address our biggest weakness last year (pass rush) with what would seem to be a pretty good draft. We also get our #1 receiver back (Caldwell) who was off to a great start last year before getting hurt, and McCardell will be with us for a full year and TC instead of coming off the street to start 7 games. Perhaps even more importantly, LT will not be hobbled for 10 weeks with a groin injury like last year(knock on wood). Antonio Gates is also no mirage and teams starting double teaming and keying on him during the second half of last year. He is a nightmare matchup on 3rd down and in the red zone. Brees is also not asked to do anything extraordinary in our offense. His biggest improvement was simply cutting down on mistakes....throwing balls away instead of throwing into double coverage to try to make a play, etc. Defensively we have 3 first rounders and 1 high second round pick playing corner...all of whom are young and improving. Jammer has been fairly solid for us, and Drayton Florence is stepping up to be a good compliment. Our pass rush should definately be improved with Castillo and Merriman...this is what will help our pass defense the most. Our run D was #2 in the NFL last year and the addition of another 300 pounder to the line and a freak like "lights out" won't hurt that.

It's all speculation now, but I think it will boil down to the Chargers and Chiefs for the division with the Broncos being right there the entire way. The Raiders still have too many gaping holes on defense to keep up with the other three all year, although they'll be a nuisance to everyone.

This may be the most competitive and exciting AFC West we have ever seen. May the best team win.


Good post. I'm looking forward to our matchups with San Diego this season.

One question though: Isn't it contradictory for the "Chargers" to draft a guy whose nickname is "Lights Out?" I don't think Marty considered the karma impact of that contradiction. ;)

Boltergeist
04-27-2005, 11:59 AM
hey Doltergueist....

welcome back to the promised land.

I'm curious to see what happens with the Bolts this year. I see potential for QB controversy if Brees doesn't start out hot. The Bolt line depth has been improved this offseason, but it just seems like there is alot of "Potential" that just isn't stepping up. McCardell, Caldwell and Parker and Gates are respectable, but not game breakers. I think Tomlinson is the best back in the league when healthy, so he's obviously a problem.

Last season, Bolt fans were calling for the heads of most of your secondary, including Jammer. I don't think Many would argue that Mary-man was a good addition with his speed and pass rush potential.

Truthfully, its ludicris for anyone to be making any predictions so early in the year. We all know too well that unfortunante injuries can strike in camps to Players No team could afford to lose. Its also been proven(see Chiefs last year) that success in a previous year doesn't guarantee success the next (See Post superbowl raider crapfest).

Good luck.......you, shamrock and a couple of others should stick around.

I will post a little more on here as I like getting the rival perspective. I think the more casual fans (admittedly we have a lot of them) get really down on Jammer for getting burned deep a few times. It really doesn't happen as much as you would think, but when it does (either a flag downfield or someone hauls in a 30+yard touchdown right over him), Charger fans are all over him. I think people need some perspective and should watch highlights of the number of times Champ Bailey was burned last year. I like Jammer because he provides tight coverage and teams usually steer clear of his side of the field. He is also as sound a tackler as you will find at CB and Sammy Davis was getting lit up as the second corner and Drayton Florence has been a big improvement thus far as he is a little bigger, faster, and more physical. The hope going into the year is that an improved pass rush will really have an effect on the performance of the secondary. I'm pretty optimistic about it at least.

I'm with you on the prediction thing. One thing we do have going for us is that this is probably the deepest Charger team (top to bottom) that I can ever remember seeing. A lot can change by the start of the season though. Both of our teams have some trouble signing their top picks also which is something I never look forward to.

Also, I don't think you can lump Gates in with our other receivers as being only "respectable" unless you say the same about Gonzales. Gates was money all season and in our playoff game. For good measure, he also made plays in the pro-bowl. He also converted more 3rd downs than any player in the league last year. Anyway, I won't get too many people on here agreeing with me on Gates / Gonzo comparisons.

htismaqe
04-27-2005, 12:07 PM
It took Tom Osborne 21 yrs. also.

It took Osborne and Smith 21 years to BUILD to a championship.

NEITHER of them spent 21 years repeating the same STUPID mistakes over and over and over and over and over and over again.

Braincase
04-27-2005, 12:13 PM
The Chargers fans sound a lot like we did prior to last season.

Boltergeist
04-27-2005, 01:44 PM
The Chargers fans sound a lot like we did prior to last season.


One difference is that we have a little more going for us on the defensive side of the ball now than you guys did last year. It was no mystery last year that your powerful offense and 'X' factor was going to have to compensate again for a defense full of holes. A couple of injuries to key offensive players for you guys and effectively neutralizing Dante Hall made a huge difference. KC is in much better shape going into 2005 than they were even in 2003. The rest of the division is much stronger also.

We feel like we have enough on defense and offense to play with anyone. Our ridiculously tough schedule won't make anything easy though.

Chiefnj
04-27-2005, 01:49 PM
Bolt,

I hate to tell you, but last year was as good as it's going to get. I'm a Marty fan. He's great at building teams. In fact, I was rooting for the Chargers in the playoffs. I actually thought Marty had changed his ways and would not go into his little conservative playoff cocoon. I thought he had learned from his past mistakes in KC and Cleveland. Nope; I was wrong. You guys got in LONG FG range and he got conservative and choked again. A tiger can't change his stripes. Welcome to a world of regular season success and post-season failure.

milkman
04-27-2005, 01:57 PM
Bolt,

I hate to tell you, but last year was as good as it's going to get. I'm a Marty fan. He's great at building teams. In fact, I was rooting for the Chargers in the playoffs. I actually thought Marty had changed his ways and would not go into his little conservative playoff cocoon. I thought he had learned from his past mistakes in KC and Cleveland. Nope; I was wrong. You guys got in LONG FG range and he got conservative and choked again. A tiger can't change his stripes. Welcome to a world of regular season success and post-season failure.

Let me add to this.
If Merriman and Castillo prove to be the real deal, then the more comfortable he becomes with that D, the more he'll rely on it to win games, and go into ultra-conservative mode in the regular season, especially those that have playoff implications.

He'll win a lot of those games, because he won't always be playing playopff caliber teams.
But the fact is, while Marty is there, you can expect to win a lot of games, but you can never hope to reach the upper echelon of the NFL.

For you guys, the promised land will always only be a set of balls away.

Boltergeist
04-27-2005, 02:24 PM
Let me add to this.
If Merriman and Castillo prove to be the real deal, then the more comfortable he becomes with that D, the more he'll rely on it to win games, and go into ultra-conservative mode in the regular season, especially those that have playoff implications.

He'll win a lot of those games, because he won't always be playing playopff caliber teams.
But the fact is, while Marty is there, you can expect to win a lot of games, but you can never hope to reach the upper echelon of the NFL.

For you guys, the promised land will always only be a set of balls away.

I can't argue with any of that. I've seen it first hand for 3 years now and was at the playoff game last year to pull my hair out at the latest Marty conservative retreat. As a fan, I can only hope this is the year Marty tries something different in the big games....He has taken baby steps over the last couple of years to loosen up. Hopefully he just realizes he doesn't have much time left.

Chief Faithful
04-27-2005, 03:00 PM
Also, I don't think you can lump Gates in with our other receivers as being only "respectable" unless you say the same about Gonzales. Gates was money all season and in our playoff game. For good measure, he also made plays in the pro-bowl. He also converted more 3rd downs than any player in the league last year. Anyway, I won't get too many people on here agreeing with me on Gates / Gonzo comparisons.

There is no denying the great season Gates had, but it is premature to start the Gates / Gonzo comparisons. First, Gonzo has become very good in the blocking schemes so there is no weakness in his game. Second, Gonzo gets more attention from defenses than any other TE in the league. In the red zone his is always triple teamed. Gates has yet to experience that type of attention.

Gates was a surprise to everyone last year. Now that there is plenty of tape on Brees and Gates it will be interesting to see if Gates has equal success. There is no doubt he will get more attention and defenses will adjust.

Saggysack
04-27-2005, 03:58 PM
We could go all day, but I'd rather end it now.

Vermeil is one of a handful of coaches to take 2 teams to a Super Bowl.

If Marty keeps winning regular season games, he'll be the winningest coach in HISTORY never to play in a Super Bowl.

Enough said.

Not quite.

Out of the 4 coaches who have taken 2 different teams to the SuperBowl, Vermeil is 110-103 with a 6-5 playoff record. Hardly what you would think a great coach record should be, just barely over .500, right? For an example I will use the other 3 coaches records. Parcells is 154-116-1 with a 11-7 playoff record, Shula is 328-156-6 with a 19-17 playoff record and Dan Reeves is 190-165-2 with a 11-9 playoff record. Out all all those coaches Vermeil is lowest of those during the regular season and the palyoffs, Vermeil has a winning regular season record about 40% of the time, 60% of the seasons he has coached have been losing seasons. Damn Reeves has had a winning record in over 50% of his regular seasons, 12 out of 23. Parcells, has had winning records in 11 out of 17 regular seasons. Shula is in whole another world compared to those others. He had 27 winning seasons out of 33.

So while saying Vermeil has taken 2 different teams to the SB is factually correct and shiny as hell to say, it hardly paints the complete picture of his entire coaching career. I'm not going to sit here and sugar coat the facts. Vermeil is a great coach, no doubt. I said that earlier, but, Marty as well is a great coach too.

FTR Marty is 177-117-1 with a 5-12 playoff record.

Saggysack
04-27-2005, 04:02 PM
It took Tom Osborne 21 yrs. also.

I never knew that. Thanks for that nugget of info. :thumb:

Boltergeist
04-27-2005, 04:50 PM
There is no denying the great season Gates had, but it is premature to start the Gates / Gonzo comparisons. First, Gonzo has become very good in the blocking schemes so there is no weakness in his game. Second, Gonzo gets more attention from defenses than any other TE in the league. In the red zone his is always triple teamed. Gates has yet to experience that type of attention.

Gates was a surprise to everyone last year. Now that there is plenty of tape on Brees and Gates it will be interesting to see if Gates has equal success. There is no doubt he will get more attention and defenses will adjust.


Teams were well aware of Gates by midseason last year and were definitely game planning for him. The Chiefs, in fact, were one of the teams that tried to triple team him at Arrowhead (to no success) so he's already getting the same treatment. He's a little bigger than Gonzo and is just a fantastic athlete with great leaping ability and hands. You're right that he's no secret, but the secret was out in week 6 last year when he was catching touchdowns at a record setting rate. Gates doesn't really have any weakness in his game either as he is also a pretty good blocker....He's just lacks the experience. Not that it mattered, but Gates also smoked Gonzo in the hands competition at the pro-bowl and beat him in a televised game of horse for good measure. Like it or not, the comparisons are going to continue...especially now that Gates holds the NFL record for TD's by a TE in one season.

Count Zarth
04-27-2005, 06:07 PM
Teams were well aware of Gates by midseason last year and were definitely game planning for him. The Chiefs, in fact, were one of the teams that tried to triple team him at Arrowhead (to no success) so he's already getting the same treatment. He's a little bigger than Gonzo and is just a fantastic athlete with great leaping ability and hands. You're right that he's no secret, but the secret was out in week 6 last year when he was catching touchdowns at a record setting rate. Gates doesn't really have any weakness in his game either as he is also a pretty good blocker....He's just lacks the experience. Not that it mattered, but Gates also smoked Gonzo in the hands competition at the pro-bowl and beat him in a televised game of horse for good measure. Like it or not, the comparisons are going to continue...especially now that Gates holds the NFL record for TD's by a TE in one season.

All that is great. Now let's see if Gates can keep it up for a few more years like Tony G has been doing.

Iowanian
04-27-2005, 07:11 PM
..and if Bolt fans like it or not.....Gonzo has crushed and owns the single season Receptions record by a TE with over 100. He did this, on the team that alot of Bolt fans claim has an "average" qb, a "nothing special RB" and common WRs....after putting up Big numbers for multiple seasons.

This season will tell us alot more about Gates than Last.

cool_brees
04-28-2005, 04:26 AM
As with most football message boards (or any internet message board for that matter) the majority of the people on there are ignorant, not well informed. Usually there are a few solid posters who can provide good information and insight. I'm a big Charger fan and I can't stand going to that signonsandiego forum that was posted on here. It's pretty much a wasteland of flapping gums. As I mentioned however, it's the case with almost any message board.

Anyway, with that out of the way, I'm just responding to all the statements of being a 'flash in the pan' or that they'll revert back to thier usual form, etc.

The accomplishment that the Chargers achieved shouldn't really come as a large suprise to the knowledgeable football fan. If you look at what the organization has done in the past couple of years you can see why.

1) Replacing GM Bobby Bethard. This man did take us to the Superbowl in '94 but singlehandedly crippled the organization for the next decade with his braindead draft picks. How many 1st round draft picks have the Chargers had since the Superbowl while he was in command? Two, and one was the great Ryan Leaf. The man drafted unknown players from small schools on a regular basis, while trading away all his number one draft picks year after year. This is NOT the way to build a football team.

Since the departure of Bethard, We've had solid to excellent draft picks and the results are finally showing.

2) Bringing in quality coaching. Marty Schottenheimer is a quality coach. I know he's not well liked here because of his playoff failures but the man can get you to the post season. I feared the week the Chargers played the Chiefs when Marty was coaching there. His teams are not flashy and sometimes boring but they play smart and puts his teams in position to win games. The coaches we had in the 90's after Bobby Ross were abysmal. I guess you could argue they really didn't have anything to work with but those guys wound up never achieving success anywhere.

Wade Phillips was brought in last year and instantly turned around the defense. I thought the talent was there but was being handcuffed by our previous defense coordinator, Dale Lindsay. Everyone knew Lindsay was over his head in the first year but he was given a second year to improve. Part of the blame for this has to rest on Marty however.

Being in the first year of learning the 3-4, the schemes had to be kept pretty simple. The poor pass rush didn't help either. If the pass rush improves like it should, combined with the year experience under the belt, I see the defense turning it up a couple of notches this year.

I'll add a 3) Upgrading the talent. This however is a direct result of reason 1 above.

That's really it. It's not very complicated. While you do have to have playmakers on your team (Tomlinson/Gates, Holmes/Gonzales, etc.) followed by a solid roster, it all starts with the front office.

I see the Chiefs and Chargers challenging each other for the division title this year. I'm not sure how improved the Chief defense will be but it looks on paper to definitely be better than recent years. I see their offense to be solid as usual. Should be a solid team this year.

Oakland blew everything on their offensive toys. I'm not even so sure that their offense will be that great with the potential time bombs they have with some players over there. That's probably unlikely however and they should have a solid offense. Their defense is another story however. I can see that defense being as bad as last year or even worse. A big factor will be if they switch back to a 4-3, which should help a lot due to their personnel.

The Broncos... horrilbe draft IMO. Horrible FA moves singing the Cleveland DL rejects. I don't see Plummer stopping his boneheaded mistakes. Their D should be pretty solid. I think Shannahan is a good coach but something always bothers me about coaches with too much power. I think they need to start fresh with a new coach and an upgrade to their QB and they may be able to take it to the next level. It's funny to say that about a team that is consistently pretty good and has been making the playoffs but yet never shows sings of improvement. Anyway, I say they finish ahead of Oakland. They may even contend for a wild-card again.

Anyway, my apologies for the novel. It just irks me sometimes when I hear ignorant statements like "one hit wonder" or "they'll go back to the old Chargers" when that's really an uninformed opinion. With that said, the offseason is still early and who knows what will happen so these predicitons for this year. But it should be a great year. I can't wait for the games to begin! (Back to lurking... I occasionally lurk under a different handle but it wouldn't let me post for some reason.)

C-Mac
04-28-2005, 07:52 AM
As with most football message boards (or any internet message board for that matter) the majority of the people on there are ignorant, not well informed. Usually there are a few solid posters who can provide good information and insight. I'm a big Charger fan and I can't stand going to that signonsandiego forum that was posted on here. It's pretty much a wasteland of flapping gums. As I mentioned however, it's the case with almost any message board.


Anyway, my apologies for the novel. It just irks me sometimes when I hear ignorant statements like "one hit wonder" or "they'll go back to the old Chargers" when that's really an uninformed opinion. With that said, the offseason is still early and who knows what will happen so these predicitons for this year. But it should be a great year. I can't wait for the games to begin! (Back to lurking... I occasionally lurk under a different handle but it wouldn't let me post for some reason.)

Nice job well said.
I agree that the Chiefs and Chargers should be the top 2 contenders, but I have give the edge to the Chiefs. Its going to be hard for SD to duplicate what they did last year, but there's no doubt that they certainly have the tools to stay contenders for a for a while.

Rukdafaidas
04-28-2005, 07:55 AM
Teams were well aware of Gates by midseason last year and were definitely game planning for him. The Chiefs, in fact, were one of the teams that tried to triple team him at Arrowhead (to no success) so he's already getting the same treatment. He's a little bigger than Gonzo and is just a fantastic athlete with great leaping ability and hands. You're right that he's no secret, but the secret was out in week 6 last year when he was catching touchdowns at a record setting rate. Gates doesn't really have any weakness in his game either as he is also a pretty good blocker....He's just lacks the experience. Not that it mattered, but Gates also smoked Gonzo in the hands competition at the pro-bowl and beat him in a televised game of horse for good measure. Like it or not, the comparisons are going to continue...especially now that Gates holds the NFL record for TD's by a TE in one season.
I think Gates will be a great TE for many years in SD. But I also agree with the others that are saying to wait a few years before comparing him to Gonzo. We went through this same thing with the Shockey/Gonzo comparisons a couple of years ago.

Lzen
04-28-2005, 07:57 AM
It just kills me that after one decent season in like 20 years, they think they are bullet proof. It will be fun kicking their butts again this year.

Umm, they did appear in the Superbowl like 10-11 years ago. ;)


And frankly, I don't have much doubt that Marty will field a decent team. I would guess they might go anywhere from 8-8 to 10-6. But make no mistake, Marty is still a very good regular season coach. It's when they get to the playoffs where they're gonna suck. That is, if they make the playoffs.

Bob Dole
04-28-2005, 08:00 AM
Bob Dole is going to say it again.

Rich Scanlon is going to have a full NFLE season under his belt, so Sandy Eggo doesn't stand a chance against our defense this year.

Rich Scanlon = Sweep!

Chief Faithful
04-28-2005, 08:04 AM
Teams were well aware of Gates by midseason last year and were definitely game planning for him. The Chiefs, in fact, were one of the teams that tried to triple team him at Arrowhead (to no success) so he's already getting the same treatment. He's a little bigger than Gonzo and is just a fantastic athlete with great leaping ability and hands. You're right that he's no secret, but the secret was out in week 6 last year when he was catching touchdowns at a record setting rate. Gates doesn't really have any weakness in his game either as he is also a pretty good blocker....He's just lacks the experience. Not that it mattered, but Gates also smoked Gonzo in the hands competition at the pro-bowl and beat him in a televised game of horse for good measure. Like it or not, the comparisons are going to continue...especially now that Gates holds the NFL record for TD's by a TE in one season.


Its no secret that coordinators spend the off-season to analyze players and teams that had great years not during the season. Gates is going to see defensive schemes designed to stop him in ways he has never seen before. He may have received more attention as the season progressed, but it takes the off-season before coordinators really focus on new schemes. This year will tell us more about Gates then the last.

Defenses have gotten very creative with Gonzo, but it didn't happen his first few years even with the success. The games I saw with Gates I never saw the same kind of attention that Gonzo gets.

The Bad Guy
04-28-2005, 09:12 AM
Anyway, my apologies for the novel. It just irks me sometimes when I hear ignorant statements like "one hit wonder" or "they'll go back to the old Chargers" when that's really an uninformed opinion. With that said, the offseason is still early and who knows what will happen so these predicitons for this year. But it should be a great year. I can't wait for the games to begin! (Back to lurking... I occasionally lurk under a different handle but it wouldn't let me post for some reason.)

Well, I'm an informed fan and if you are as big of a history buff as your post indicates, you would check out what Marty has done following a playoff appearance.

His first 6 years, he made the playoffs here.

After that 1995, 13-3 team, he went 9-7 the next year and didn't make the playoffs.

In 1997, he also went 13-3, and went 7-9 last year and didn't make the playoffs.

Getting you into the playoffs doesn't mean much when the guy has been one and done in his last FOUR playoff appearances.

Wade Phillips also made a big impact on the Falcons defense when he arrived back in 2002 and then in 2003 he finished dead last in the league.

I just read the Chargers bio on him and it's a joke that they give the excuse that he lost these guys - Juran Bolden and Tod McBride, and Sam Rogers and Will Overstreet - and basically attributed that to why they were so bad.

Not one of those guys are starters in the NFL. As a matter of fact, I think 3 of 4 are out of the league.

Anyway, you don't get respect in this league coming out of nowhere unless you can do it for 2 straight years. You have no idea how Brees will play. I have a hard time believing he goes from dud to stud overnight and will maintain his consistent play.

You had a TON of variables go your way last year. A lot of it was talent, a lot was luck. I'm still of the opinion that your defense is average at best. Your corners aren't anything special, your safeties are junk and your linebackers overachieved tremendously last year.

I do think that you will have a decent team, but I also think that it's not out of the question that you could finish 6-10 either.

Saying someone isn't an "informed fan" because they think your team won't be anything special is a BIG reach.

cool_brees
04-28-2005, 01:26 PM
Well, I'm an informed fan and if you are as big of a history buff as your post indicates, you would check out what Marty has done following a playoff appearance.

His first 6 years, he made the playoffs here.

After that 1995, 13-3 team, he went 9-7 the next year and didn't make the playoffs.

In 1997, he also went 13-3, and went 7-9 last year and didn't make the playoffs.

Getting you into the playoffs doesn't mean much when the guy has been one and done in his last FOUR playoff appearances.

Wade Phillips also made a big impact on the Falcons defense when he arrived back in 2002 and then in 2003 he finished dead last in the league.

I just read the Chargers bio on him and it's a joke that they give the excuse that he lost these guys - Juran Bolden and Tod McBride, and Sam Rogers and Will Overstreet - and basically attributed that to why they were so bad.

Not one of those guys are starters in the NFL. As a matter of fact, I think 3 of 4 are out of the league.

Anyway, you don't get respect in this league coming out of nowhere unless you can do it for 2 straight years. You have no idea how Brees will play. I have a hard time believing he goes from dud to stud overnight and will maintain his consistent play.

You had a TON of variables go your way last year. A lot of it was talent, a lot was luck. I'm still of the opinion that your defense is average at best. Your corners aren't anything special, your safeties are junk and your linebackers overachieved tremendously last year.

I do think that you will have a decent team, but I also think that it's not out of the question that you could finish 6-10 either.

Saying someone isn't an "informed fan" because they think your team won't be anything special is a BIG reach.

If you can back it up with an explanation, like you did, that's fine. It's the 2 line posts saying. "Don't worry, they'll go back to the way they were" that's I'm referring to. And, yes there is a lot of that here.

The defense was pretty much average, yes. But consider, it was the first year for the majority of the players playing in a 3-4. Things were intentionally kept vanilla. We didn't do a lot of blitzing. We played vanilla, conservative but smart defense.

I'm not sure where you are coming from saying the LBers 'overachieved'. Foley played on some bad defenses in the past and wasn't a full time starter all those years. He played well in the system put in place last year, evidenced by his 10 sacks. Edwards has always been solid. Very underrated but one of the top LBers in the league IMO. Godfrey is slowing down, no doubt but he played his role (stopping the run) effectively, just as Foley played his role well (pass rush). Leber reminds me a lot of Fujita. Nothing flashy but a solid, smart player.

The secondary may be a bit of a dissapointment but this appears to be more of a symptom of a poor pass rush (30th in sacks in 2004). This is why our draft focused on Merriman and Castillo. If they are able to upgrade the pass rush and along with the anticipation of a more aggressive defensive scheme this year, the hope is the secondary will be able to make more plays. BTW, Kiel (SS) is turning into a very solid player. Our weak link in the secondary is at FS (Jerry Wilson). He will probably be beat out by Jue, who was signed from Green Bay. Whether he is an upgrade or not, we'll see but I don't anticipate him performing worse than Wilson did. Jammer is a bit of a dissapointment being a top 5 pick and he's no elite CB but he's developing into a solid one. Florence looks like he'll beat out Sammy Davis for the other starting postion. They should do fine if the pass rush develops this year.

chiefsfolife
04-28-2005, 01:28 PM
shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet

gblowfish
04-28-2005, 02:18 PM
Quite Frankly, Marty Rocks!

Iowanian
04-28-2005, 02:20 PM
I think one of the eggos just got an Iowani-wedgie.

The Bad Guy
04-28-2005, 02:29 PM
If you can back it up with an explanation, like you did, that's fine. It's the 2 line posts saying. "Don't worry, they'll go back to the way they were" that's I'm referring to. And, yes there is a lot of that here.

The defense was pretty much average, yes. But consider, it was the first year for the majority of the players playing in a 3-4. Things were intentionally kept vanilla. We didn't do a lot of blitzing. We played vanilla, conservative but smart defense.

I'm not sure where you are coming from saying the LBers 'overachieved'. Foley played on some bad defenses in the past and wasn't a full time starter all those years. He played well in the system put in place last year, evidenced by his 10 sacks. Edwards has always been solid. Very underrated but one of the top LBers in the league IMO. Godfrey is slowing down, no doubt but he played his role (stopping the run) effectively, just as Foley played his role well (pass rush). Leber reminds me a lot of Fujita. Nothing flashy but a solid, smart player.

The secondary may be a bit of a dissapointment but this appears to be more of a symptom of a poor pass rush (30th in sacks in 2004). This is why our draft focused on Merriman and Castillo. If they are able to upgrade the pass rush and along with the anticipation of a more aggressive defensive scheme this year, the hope is the secondary will be able to make more plays. BTW, Kiel (SS) is turning into a very solid player. Our weak link in the secondary is at FS (Jerry Wilson). He will probably be beat out by Jue, who was signed from Green Bay. Whether he is an upgrade or not, we'll see but I don't anticipate him performing worse than Wilson did. Jammer is a bit of a dissapointment being a top 5 pick and he's no elite CB but he's developing into a solid one. Florence looks like he'll beat out Sammy Davis for the other starting postion. They should do fine if the pass rush develops this year.

If Leber reminds you of Fujita then that doesn't say a whole lot.

One of my good friends is real close with Randal Godfrey and I'll actually be attending his football camp with my friend to help him out in June.

Godfrey is a real nice guy, but his tank is just about empty.

But, I'll be surprised if Phillips can turn in another impressive year. His pedigree is splash on the scene, fizzle out in the 2nd year.

Count Zarth
04-28-2005, 02:29 PM
Quite Frankly, Marty Rocks!

ROFL

I have to steal this for the Mane...sorry.

patteeu
04-28-2005, 02:58 PM
shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet

Did you see Spike Lee's 25th hour? The black cop cracked me up when he said that.

ct
04-28-2005, 03:21 PM
Who's afraid of the big bad Chiefs?
Big bad wolf, big bad Chiefs?
Who's afraid of the big bad Chiefs?
Tra la la la la

Are you kidding me with this? Nursery Rhyme smack, now that is weak, man.

Count Zarth
04-28-2005, 03:41 PM
Are you kidding me with this? Nursery Rhyme smack, now that is weak, man.

I thought it was funny. :shrug:

philfree
04-28-2005, 03:46 PM
Marty's Chargers are AFCW Champs so they have braggin rights till the season starts. IMO Marty's been building a pretty good team the last couple of years and we shouldn't take them for granted.

PhilFree:arrow:

Boltergeist
04-28-2005, 03:53 PM
If Leber reminds you of Fujita then that doesn't say a whole lot.

One of my good friends is real close with Randal Godfrey and I'll actually be attending his football camp with my friend to help him out in June.

Godfrey is a real nice guy, but his tank is just about empty.

But, I'll be surprised if Phillips can turn in another impressive year. His pedigree is splash on the scene, fizzle out in the 2nd year.

Leber will likely be on the bench this year and provides quality depth. Merriman is a great bookend compliment to Foley as a pass rushing OLB. Stephen Cooper made a lot of noise during pre-season last year and will push for playing time at Godfrey's spot. Donnie will push for the league lead in tackles again. Philips showed last year that he can get to the QB at this level and is a good change up to give Merriman/Foley a breather. This is probably the deepest position on the team and you can expect the Chargers to be very solid at LB. The Chargers were #2 in the NFL against the run last year, so they're doing something right here.

Calcountry
04-28-2005, 04:06 PM
http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/18/187093.jpg


Those poor fools.ROFL:clap:ROFL

Talk about Ashats. Marty WILL find a way to fug things up for SD.

Just like he did against the Jets, he'll fug it up.

philfree
04-28-2005, 04:13 PM
ROFL:clap:ROFL

Talk about Ashats. Marty WILL find a way to fug things up for SD.

Just like he did against the Jets, he'll fug it up.

Yeah the Kicker that so many Chiefs fans wanted and didn't get choked and that's a knock on Marty. ROFL I can't believe they drafted such a choker. :rolleyes: Losers!

PhilFree:arrow:

caffeinated_virus
04-28-2005, 05:23 PM
hello Chief fans.
Charger fans here and thought i'd chime in here. No smack from me just football talk.

Yes, the Chargers have made huge strides recently and last year was the "Cinderalla" year. The question is, can we keep it up. Here is what i think:

I think the Chiefs are the team to beat. Shhh! Don't tell other Charger fans at the UT board, they might lynch me. :rolleyes:

I firmly believed that if the Chiefs made strides to improve their defense, that was your only weak link. By adding players like Bell, Knight, Surtain, Hall and now Johnson, I believe you guys have definitely improved your defense by a lot. There was no question about your offense. That should remain a juggenaut.

As for the Chargers, I believe our defense will be very good still. I think our run D will be top 5. The passing D and sacks we will just wait and see. My biggest concern is our offense.

Yes, we looked good last year. Very good. However, I really think our offense is too simplistic. "Vanilla" if you will. I know that part of that was to taylor it to fit Brees. Which is fine, but that will only last so long. Brees favorite target is Gates and my fear is once teams start to slow down Gates (and I believe they will) our offense will sputter. Yes, we have LT but he can only do so much. Our WR's, well, Caldwell is coming off a ACL injury and is not 100%. Mcardell is a good receiver, but nothing great. The Jackson kid looks like he has a ton of potential, but when will we see that.

Then there is Brees. No doubt I think in many peoples mind he had a great year, probably a career year.The fact remains that we will be playing A LOT tougher defenses and teams in 2005 than we did in 2004. I don't think Brees will duplicate his 2004 season, but will have a average season. I think Brees can only be as good as his surrounding cast (and for any Charger fans here reading this, i'm not a pro-rivers guy, I tell it like i see it!). I just see Brees has having limitations. If Gates were to go down with a injury, that would be huge for Brees for example.

Last year, everyone overlooked us and we snuck up on people. That won't happen this year.

So to recap, I really question our offense. LT will have his numbers without question. I just think we need to be a bit more complex on offense if we truly want to be contenders in this league.

Lets not forget the schedule. Brutal as hell. Everyone (ok, some charger fans do) seems to overlook a lot of teams, but that's a mistake. Tough trips to the East coast; Philly, NE, Indy, 'SKins, Jets are all tough. Then we host Dallas, Pitt and Bills and Phins. Lets not forget the AFC West which will be the toughest bar none. I predict that we will go anywhere from 7-9 at worst to 10-6 at best.

Just my thoughts...

CosmicPal
04-28-2005, 05:30 PM
CV- nice thoughts, and you're a welcome addition to the Planet.

Here's something for you to consider: You have some outstanding coaching from Marty all the way down..don't fret- Marty has always done a remarkable job of motivating his players. The AFC West will be tough, but I do like our chances this year. But, it won't be an easy ride through the West, that's for sure.

milkman
04-28-2005, 06:47 PM
Yeah the Kicke
r that so many Chiefs fans wanted and didn't get choked and that's a knock on Marty. ROFL I can't believe they drafted such a choker. :rolleyes: Losers!

PhilFree:arrow:

You see, for Marty, it's always something.
Refs made a bad call.
Kicker misses kicks.
Somebody fumbles at an inopportune time.

How can one coach have so much freakin' bad luck in the playoffs.
He's just a victim.

And yes, all of these things have happened.
But the bottom line is, if Marty had not played so damn ultraconservative in all of those games, it wouldn't have come down to one or two things in every single playoff game he's coached.

OK, that is just a bit of an exaggeration, but except for the Montana games, his KC playoff teams, and last years Charger team have averaged about 11-12 points scored in the playoffs.
And quite frankly, that just ain't going to get it done.

It hasn't gotten done.

milkman
04-28-2005, 07:00 PM
Then there is Brees. No doubt I think in many peoples mind he had a great year, probably a career year.The fact remains that we will be playing A LOT tougher defenses and teams in 2005 than we did in 2004. I don't think Brees will duplicate his 2004 season, but will have a average season. I think Brees can only be as good as his surrounding cast (and for any Charger fans here reading this, i'm not a pro-rivers guy, I tell it like i see it!). I just see Brees has having limitations. If Gates were to go down with a injury, that would be huge for Brees for example.

I think a big reason for Brees' improvement was better protection.
The O-Line was upgraded by A.J. Smith in the '04 offseason, and Brees was given time to find receivers, unlike '03.
I don't believe he'll ever put up big numbers, but as long as he has protection, he'll be a solid signal caller.

kchero
04-28-2005, 08:06 PM
What a second....there are fans of football in San Diego?
When did this happen?

milkman
04-28-2005, 08:11 PM
What a second....there are fans of football in San Diego?
When did this happen?

About the midway point of last season!

caffeinated_virus
04-28-2005, 08:48 PM
I think a big reason for Brees' improvement was better protection.
The O-Line was upgraded by A.J. Smith in the '04 offseason, and Brees was given time to find receivers, unlike '03.
I don't believe he'll ever put up big numbers, but as long as he has protection, he'll be a solid signal caller.

Agreed. Protection his key. Add in the emergence of Gates who helped Brees big time. Some say, without Gates, Brees would have had just a average year (which I tend to agree with when Gates had half of Brees TD receptions)

A lot has been suggested that many QB's in this league could be put behind center of our offense and flourish. Pretty good OL. Pro-Bowl RB and TE. Above average Receivers.

I don't think Brees does anything "special" and he has been known to cave in when he gets rattled.

I agree though. I think 2004 was a career year. I would bet money 2005 is not near what 2004 was (assuming he plays the entire year)

Boltergeist
04-28-2005, 09:10 PM
What a second....there are fans of football in San Diego?
When did this happen?


Watch yourself...Don't fool yourself into thinking that some of us long time Charger fans don't remember that Arrowhead stadium used to be half empty before the late 80's and Marty's arrival....You know what they say..."Don't throw stones.." Although some of you may not have been football fans back then. Winning seems to change a lot of things.

Iowanian
04-28-2005, 09:17 PM
I keep seeing talk on the eggo board about the Chargers having better depth than the Chiefs. At some positions I might be inclined to agree, but Lets take a closer look at the Chiefs team as a whole. I invite the Bolt fans to answer with similar arguement for their team.

QB.
The Chiefs have Trent Green, who has been a top 5 QB in the league since his 2nd year in KC.
His backup, is Todd Collins. Collins is NOT an allstar, however he was a starter for several years in Buffalo, and has performed at a High level when given the Rock.
The Current #3, Huard, has started in the NFL and holds a clip board in KC. Many fans hope he'll be surpassed by a younger QBOF prospect.

RB. Priest Holmes. No back in the league has scored more TDs in the past 3 years. Scoring goes further on the Board than yard totals.
His backup...a first round draft pick, who put up multiple hundred yard games, and improved with each carry as the seasoned progressed(after Holmes injury). He showed Power, elusiveness and Breakaway speed(much to this fans dismay and pleasant suprise)

FB. Tony Richardson has been one of the Best all round Fullbacks in the league for several years. He can run the ball and is a tremendous blocker..though his recieving skills have declined. The offseason brough his new backup, who is also the current #3 HB, in Robert Holcomb, who is a great blocker, solid Reciever and runs the ball hard in short yardage.

TE. Gonzo has proven to be the top TE in the league for the past several seasons. Last season, with a bad foot, broke the record for Catches by a TE. His backup...Jason Dunn....A large, dominating Run blocking TE, who has started in the league and proved last season to also be a TD recieving threat. The #3 is Kris Wilson.....an H-back/TE drafted last season, who looked great, fast and great hands before breaking his leg.

O line....Roaf, Waters, Weigeman, Shields, Black. The best Oline in the NFL [period]. Welbourne was a flop at Tackle, but could start at Guard for any team in the NFL not in KC. Bober wasn't solid at T, but has been a starter in the league with the Giants, and although starting at T last season, will be moved to Center and guard..his natural position. The backup Ts are in their 2nd and 3rd years...and unproven. The first weakness I see on offense.

WR.
Morton is probably gone....the fans rejoice.
Kennison is no Marvin Harrison but has been a productive WR in KC.
Boerigter was hitting stride last season when tearing his ACL...We'll see what we have in him in TC.
Sammy Parker showed break away speed, good route running ability and great hands in the last 3 weeks of the season. I'm excited.
Cro Thorpe is an unknown, but first round potential without the injury 2 years ago...He's as fast as Parker, and showed great hands in a pro-style College Offense.
This is the weakest position on offense, but has managed to haul in 4000 yards the past 3 seasons when including TE.

C-Mac
04-28-2005, 09:25 PM
I keep seeing talk on the eggo board about the Chargers having better depth than the Chiefs. At some positions I might be inclined to agree, but Lets take a closer look at the Chiefs team as a whole. I invite the Bolt fans to answer with similar arguement for their team.

QB.
The Chiefs have Trent Green, who has been a top 5 QB in the league since his 2nd year in KC.
His backup, is Todd Collins. Collins is NOT an allstar, however he was a starter for several years in Buffalo, and has performed at a High level when given the Rock.
The Current #3, Huard, has started in the NFL and holds a clip board in KC. Many fans hope he'll be surpassed by a younger QBOF prospect.

RB. Priest Holmes. No back in the league has scored more TDs in the past 3 years. Scoring goes further on the Board than yard totals.
His backup...a first round draft pick, who put up multiple hundred yard games, and improved with each carry as the seasoned progressed(after Holmes injury). He showed Power, elusiveness and Breakaway speed(much to this fans dismay and pleasant suprise)

FB. Tony Richardson has been one of the Best all round Fullbacks in the league for several years. He can run the ball and is a tremendous blocker..though his recieving skills have declined. The offseason brough his new backup, who is also the current #3 HB, in Robert Holcomb, who is a great blocker, solid Reciever and runs the ball hard in short yardage.

TE. Gonzo has proven to be the top TE in the league for the past several seasons. Last season, with a bad foot, broke the record for Catches by a TE. His backup...Jason Dunn....A large, dominating Run blocking TE, who has started in the league and proved last season to also be a TD recieving threat. The #3 is Kris Wilson.....an H-back/TE drafted last season, who looked great, fast and great hands before breaking his leg.

O line....Roaf, Waters, Weigeman, Shields, Black. The best Oline in the NFL [period]. Welbourne was a flop at Tackle, but could start at Guard for any team in the NFL not in KC. Bober wasn't solid at T, but has been a starter in the league with the Giants, and although starting at T last season, will be moved to Center and guard..his natural position. The backup Ts are in their 2nd and 3rd years...and unproven. The first weakness I see on offense.

WR.
Morton is probably gone....the fans rejoice.
Kennison is no Marvin Harrison but has been a productive WR in KC.
Boerigter was hitting stride last season when tearing his ACL...We'll see what we have in him in TC.
Sammy Parker showed break away speed, good route running ability and great hands in the last 3 weeks of the season. I'm excited.
Cro Thorpe is an unknown, but first round potential without the injury 2 years ago...He's as fast as Parker, and showed great hands in a pro-style College Offense.
This is the weakest position on offense, but has managed to haul in 4000 yards the past 3 seasons when including TE.


Dang Iowanian, I think that is the largest post I've ever seen you make. Trying some new diet pill?

Iowanian
04-28-2005, 09:33 PM
Defense. The achilles heal of the 2004 Chiefs.

Dline
Hicks(Hall) Sims(Siavii)Dalton(browning)Allen(Hall)
Hicks is a known comodity..a decent Run stopping DE, who has disappeared as a pass rusher. Hall was a starter in Tenn, and has put up 8 sacks in a season before...He provides a speed rush from Both end positions and helps the rotation. DT....Chief fans have to hope that Dalton shows up again this year. Sims has been a disappointment to say the least. He has to step in up this year, or hopefully can be replaced by Olshansky's former teamate, Siavii. Allen showed alot of flash after being given the starting Nod halfway through the season. Hopefully, he's on the weights and learned alot.
Obviously a position of concern, but one that could be improved with 1-2 guys stepping up.

LB.
This area was obviously addressed in the offseason...But I don't think any of us know how it will shake out(depending on who gets back from Injury) If Mazlowski, Barber and Fujita all get back from injury, this position has the potential to be studly, with the additions of Kendrell Bell and Derek Johnson. I think the Depth rounds out with Mitchell(who could still start at Mike), Possibly Caver, the new fan favorite Boomer Grigsby, and maybe Rich Scanlon.....I'm pretty cool with Bell, Johnson, Fujita, Maslowski, Barber and Mitchell being the top 6, with Grigsby hopefully dominating special teams.

Secondary...A sore thumb last season...Looking up.
Surtain is an instant upgrade and makes a pretty solid starting pair with Warfield(hopefully the #2). The nickle will be McCleon, Sapp, or rookie Alphonzo Hodge... bartee(hopefully cut)

Safeties including Sammy Knight as SS, and either Greg Wesley/Woods as starter and depth looks better than most 3 deeps I've seen at Safety in the league.

Iowanian
04-28-2005, 09:36 PM
Dang Iowanian, I think that is the largest post I've ever seen you make. Trying some new diet pill?

If you look closely...you'll see that I'm much more than a Charming smile, Iron Ass'd Wiseguy, afraid of online confrontation.

Sometimes, I have to let my crewcut down.

Boltergeist
04-28-2005, 09:53 PM
Here's my rebuttle on the depth thing:

Offense:
QB: Brees and Rivers. I give the Chargers the edge here as the Chargers coaching staff is pretty convinced Rivers is going to be great.

RB: LT, Chatman, Turner, Sproles. We have variety here and considering LT's injury history versus Priest's, it's pretty close to being even.

FB: Lo Neal is not the receiver or runner T-Rich is, but he has no equal as a lead blocker. We are grooming Pinnock behind him, but I give the Chiefs the edge here.

TE: We're very deep here with Gates, Krause (who looked awesome in week 16 against you guys), and Justing Peele who we've been grooming a while. I'll call it even here as our guys are more of the pass catching variety.

O-Line: You win...nuff said...but we are catching up. We have a solid starting 5 and we're grooming some huge backups with Courtney Van Buren and now Wesley Britt.

WR: We are deeper. Reche Caldwell, Keenan McCardell, and Eric Parker are a nice trio. Kassim Osgood at 6'5 has been progressing nicely...and we just drafted that freak Vincent Jackson. We are looking really good here.

D-Line: Jamal Williams is up there with the very best NT's in football. Olshansky is a 300lb run stopper...and now we added Castillo as another active 300 pounder to clear space for our pass rushers as well as spell Jamal at NT. Dave Ball is a very good pass rusher who went down early in his rookie year after showing a LOT of promise. He's back. Dingle was a starter for us last year and will provide the depth with Cesaire. We are deeper here.

LB: The deepest position on our team. Foley had better numbers than Joey Porter last year, and Donnie Edwards was a defensive POY candidate. We added Merriman to this group as the perfect bookend to Foley and have a solid vet in Godfrey rounding out the starting 4. Leber, who started the last 3 years will now come off the bench to spell Godfrey along with Stephen Cooper who has been an animal in pre-season. Sean Philips, who we are all really high on as a pass rusher, will come in to spell Foley / Merriman and will probably be in the blitz package with Merriman moving up to the line. The Chiefs are getting better, but we are deeper and better overall at LB still.

CB: We have 4 young high round draft picks getting better by the year here. An improved pass rush will really help. Jammer and Drayton Florence (who may end up being the better corner) are the starters with Jamar Fletcher (who actually looked pretty good) and Sammy Davis backing them up. Lots of young talent that just needs to turn the corner. We are deeper, but don't have a playmaker like Surtain here.

S Terrence Kiel is becoming a solid SS. Bahwoe Jue will get a shot at FS with Clinton Hart and Hanik Milligan there if he falters. Anything is better than Jerry Wilson here. The Chiefs are better at safety overall.

We are solid at K and Punter with Kaeding and Mike Scifres.

Sproles looks very promising as a KR...Obviously you have us beat here with X Factor.

Iowanian
04-28-2005, 10:02 PM
Little Buddy..........
Brees has had exactly 2/3 of ONE good season. The Top QBs in the league threw 1500 more yards then he did last year....including Trent Green. Rivers is an unproven 2nd year player who hasn't seen a Live NFL game yet. He's going to have to take a snap in a live game before you can place him over Colllins.(potential yes...Proven no). Early last season...the Bolt Fan base was calling for Tar and Feathers in front of Brees' house.

Lt is probably the best back in the league, all around...Chatman is probably more aligned with Holcomb, and Sproles, while interesting to KC fans due to his college location, hasn't proven anything yet. He's probably a good Kick returner and 3rd down Back.

TE is not even Close. I don't think a GM in the league would take the 3 Eggo TEs over KCs.

WR...I see you've got some decent WRs, but in truth, there aren't any that are a head above Kennison and Co...and lets face it.....None of our starters would be the top 3 in Oakland.

Boltergeist
04-28-2005, 10:15 PM
Little Buddy..........
Brees has had exactly 2/3 of ONE good season. The Top QBs in the league threw 1500 more yards then he did last year....including Trent Green. Rivers is an unproven 2nd year player who hasn't seen a Live NFL game yet. He's going to have to take a snap in a live game before you can place him over Colllins.(potential yes...Proven no). Early last season...the Bolt Fan base was calling for Tar and Feathers in front of Brees' house.

Lt is probably the best back in the league, all around...Chatman is probably more aligned with Holcomb, and Sproles, while interesting to KC fans due to his college location, hasn't proven anything yet. He's probably a good Kick returner and 3rd down Back.

TE is not even Close. I don't think a GM in the league would take the 3 Eggo TEs over KCs.

WR...I see you've got some decent WRs, but in truth, there aren't any that are a head above Kennison and Co...and lets face it.....None of our starters would be the top 3 in Oakland.


As far as I remember. Brees was in the pro bowl last year. Green was not. Rivers is certaintly an upgrade over freaking Todd Collins. BTW, I'm sure you remember that Rivers threw a TD against you guys in week 16. So in his 15 or so snaps, he had at least 1 more TD pass than your backup.

When Chatman had a chance to play, he produced. He ran for 103 yards in limited action against one of the top run defenses in Jacksonville. The only difference between him and Johnson is that LT is plays more than Priest.

I disagree with you totally at TE. In fact I bet right now more NFL GMs take Gates over Gonzales. You would have an edge if someone needed an exclusively blocking TE like Dunbar...But that's what linemen are for.


WR. While the Raiders trio is impressive. I'm not sure if I put Curry over Reche or McCardell. Eric Parker is a damn good slot receiver too. I think we have you guys here pretty handily....but you're right, the Raiders are clearly superior.....but then again....they have the world's softest defense.

The Bad Guy
04-28-2005, 10:33 PM
As far as I remember. Brees was in the pro bowl last year. Green was not. Rivers is certaintly an upgrade over freaking Todd Collins. BTW, I'm sure you remember that Rivers threw a TD against you guys in week 16. So in his 15 or so snaps, he had at least 1 more TD pass than your backup.

When Chatman had a chance to play, he produced. He ran for 103 yards in limited action against one of the top run defenses in Jacksonville. The only difference between him and Johnson is that LT is plays more than Priest.

I disagree with you totally at TE. In fact I bet right now more NFL GMs take Gates over Gonzales. You would have an edge if someone needed an exclusively blocking TE like Dunbar...But that's what linemen are for.


WR. While the Raiders trio is impressive. I'm not sure if I put Curry over Reche or McCardell. Eric Parker is a damn good slot receiver too. I think we have you guys here pretty handily....but you're right, the Raiders are clearly superior.....but then again....they have the world's softest defense.

Trent Green put up Pro Bowl caliber numbers. It's not his fault that his defense was a joke again.

If there is more than 1 NFL GM that would take Gates over Gonzalez, then they would need their heads examined.

One good season doesn't equal the 6 GREAT seasons that Gonzalez has had.

Iowanian
04-28-2005, 10:39 PM
BOlt.........Ryan Leaf was drafted around the same spot as Rivers. Ryan Leaf posted Big numbers in College and came into the NFL as a cannon-armed can't miss possibly to be taken over Manning.

Until Rivers shows anything in a live game, he's no better than Casey Clausen. I'm not crawling on my knees for a chance to blow him like the herd of wolfpack fans who doubled the Bolt fan base last year.

Collins obviously doesn't have the potential of Rivers, but he's proven a hell of alot more than Rivers has in the NFL to date.

I guess we'll probably get a chance to see him around week 5.

If Brees and the Bolt WRs are so much better than KC's Mediocre QB and WRs.....riddle me this batbolt...Why did Green complete 150 more passes, for 1500 more yards and just as many TDs as Brees.......

http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFL/PYDS/2004/regular

philfree
04-28-2005, 10:40 PM
You see, for Marty, it's always something.
Refs made a bad call.
Kicker misses kicks.
Somebody fumbles at an inopportune time.

How can one coach have so much freakin' bad luck in the playoffs.
He's just a victim.

And yes, all of these things have happened.
But the bottom line is, if Marty had not played so damn ultraconservative in all of those games, it wouldn't have come down to one or two things in every single playoff game he's coached.

OK, that is just a bit of an exaggeration, but except for the Montana games, his KC playoff teams, and last years Charger team have averaged about 11-12 points scored in the playoffs.
And quite frankly, that just ain't going to get it done.

It hasn't gotten done.

I don't know for sure but I don't think Marty was calling his own plays in the playoff games he's coached. I'll never be a Marty basher/hater. IMO he's a good coach but he hasn't won it all and that will be his legacy until he does.

PhilFree:arrow:

cool_brees
04-29-2005, 04:16 AM
I hate to respond with a somewhat smart-ass comment but how in the world could a Chief's fan of all people debate the depth of the two teams after last year's pathetic showing by KC's starters against our second and third stringers?

Yes, it was a pretty meaningless game but players on both teams, starters or backups were playing for their roster spots.

|Zach|
04-29-2005, 04:48 AM
I hate to respond with a somewhat smart-ass comment but how in the world could a Chief's fan of all people debate the depth of the two teams after last year's pathetic showing by KC's starters against our second and third stringers?

Yes, it was a pretty meaningless game but players on both teams, starters or backups were playing for their roster spots.
One year not being a bottom feeder and you own us all the sudden. Heh. Interesting though; both our teams won the same amount of playoff games last year.

Youe pedestal does not fit you very well.

wildcat09
04-29-2005, 05:11 AM
One year not being a bottom feeder and you own us all the sudden. Heh. Interesting though; both our teams won the same amount of playoff games last year.

Youe pedestal does not fit you very well.


put that in your pipe and smoke it :bong: :bolts:

Nightfyre
04-29-2005, 05:28 AM
I hate to respond with a somewhat smart-ass comment but how in the world could a Chief's fan of all people debate the depth of the two teams after last year's pathetic showing by KC's starters against our second and third stringers?

Yes, it was a pretty meaningless game but players on both teams, starters or backups were playing for their roster spots.
Exactly how much heart do you think KC played with, knowing they were out of the playoffs?

Iowanian
04-29-2005, 07:28 AM
cool.....

I'll debate overall team depth for good reason. The obvious answer is that the Chiefs had pretty much packed it in for the season in the 2nd game. The same team beat the shit out of Indy, balt, Atlanta and Denver. How many of those teams did Eggo Beat last season? Getting beat by the Eggo JV said alot more about the Chiefs effort than the Eggo Depth.

It was more than obvious that the Chiefs players had Tickets to the bahamas in their pocket.

The same Chiefs team, won just as many playoff games as the Bolts last year, and beat more playoff teams during the season.

Last year, I think Most Chief fans felt bad enough for Bolt fans, and the last decade of football they've endured to almost root for them in the playoffs. Listening to the fans, its not going to be terribly tough to remember they're a rival this season.

Lzen
04-29-2005, 08:11 AM
cool.....

I'll debate overall team depth for good reason. The obvious answer is that the Chiefs had pretty much packed it in for the season in the 2nd game. The same team beat the shit out of Indy, balt, Atlanta and Denver. How many of those teams did Eggo Beat last season? Getting beat by the Eggo JV said alot more about the Chiefs effort than the Eggo Depth.

It was more than obvious that the Chiefs players had Tickets to the bahamas in their pocket.

The same Chiefs team, won just as many playoff games as the Bolts last year, and beat more playoff teams during the season.

Last year, I think Most Chief fans felt bad enough for Bolt fans, and the last decade of football they've endured to almost root for them in the playoffs. Listening to the fans, its not going to be terribly tough to remember they're a rival this season.

I was going to reply but I see that Iowanian the Terrible has it covered. :thumb: That argument that Brees made the Pro Bowl over Green makes him a better QB is either pure homerism or pure ignorance. Or perhaps a little of each.

Iowanian
04-29-2005, 08:14 AM
Lzen....
As for Brees being a better QB than Green because he made the Probowl..........Yesterday, in this very thread I reminded those fans that Trent Green completed 150 more passes, threw 1500 MORE yards, and had the SAME number of TD passes as the mighty Fa-Brees....all with KC's "subpar wrs".

Lzen
04-29-2005, 08:44 AM
Lzen....
As for Brees being a better QB than Green because he made the Probowl..........Yesterday, in this very thread I reminded those fans that Trent Green completed 150 more passes, threw 1500 MORE yards, and had the SAME number of TD passes as the mighty Fa-Brees....all with KC's "subpar wrs".

Yep, that's why I said you had it covered.

The Bad Guy
04-29-2005, 09:03 AM
I hate to respond with a somewhat smart-ass comment but how in the world could a Chief's fan of all people debate the depth of the two teams after last year's pathetic showing by KC's starters against our second and third stringers?

Yes, it was a pretty meaningless game but players on both teams, starters or backups were playing for their roster spots.

Yeah, because the Chiefs will field the exact same team that you saw in December. :rolleyes:

Come down off your high horse.

Boltergeist
04-29-2005, 09:08 AM
Exactly how much heart do you think KC played with, knowing they were out of the playoffs?


That's a pretty pathetic excuse, and if true doesn't bode well for your prospects this year if the team lacks the heart to try to win regardless of their record.

|Zach|
04-29-2005, 09:10 AM
That's a pretty pathetic excuse, and if true doesn't bode well for your prospects this year if the team lacks the heart to try to win regardless of their record.
Expectations can really change dynamics. You know not all teams go into seasons thinking they will do shitty like SD last year.

Boltergeist
04-29-2005, 09:12 AM
Lzen....
As for Brees being a better QB than Green because he made the Probowl..........Yesterday, in this very thread I reminded those fans that Trent Green completed 150 more passes, threw 1500 MORE yards, and had the SAME number of TD passes as the mighty Fa-Brees....all with KC's "subpar wrs".


While you're at it, why don't you also remind fans that Green's passer rating was a dozen points less than Brees last year and that he threw 10 more INTs...17 to Brees' 7. I'm sure that wasn't at all a factor in the two teams' records last year. :rolleyes:

Iowanian
04-29-2005, 09:13 AM
1-15

|Zach|
04-29-2005, 09:15 AM
While you're at it, why don't you also remind fans that Green's passer rating was a dozen points less than Brees last year and that he threw 10 more INTs...17 to Brees' 7. I'm sure that wasn't at all a factor in the two teams' records last year. :rolleyes:
Ya, hopefully some day Kansas City will learn how to produce a little offense.

Iowanian
04-29-2005, 09:16 AM
While you're at it, why don't you also remind fans that Green's passer rating was a dozen points less than Brees last year and that he threw 10 more INTs...17 to Brees' 7. I'm sure that wasn't at all a factor in the two teams' records last year. :rolleyes:

I'll counter that by saying that when Green Throws 150 more passes than Brees, it automatically exposes him to more INTs. I'll also counter that Green spent some time heaving the ball downfield, while Brees was throwing alot of safe-short passes due to the offense the eggos run.

1500 yards more in passing. Thats the equivilent of 5 additional 300 yard games Brees would need to catch up. Brees spent alot of time protecting small leads, while Green spent alot of 4th quarters trying regain the lead the defense gave up in the last 2 minutes.

KCTitus
04-29-2005, 09:16 AM
Any Charger fan attempting to berate the best offense in the NFL is clearly delusional. The power of Marty is strong.

|Zach|
04-29-2005, 09:19 AM
Any Charger fan attempting to berate the best offense in the NFL is clearly delusional. The power of Marty is strong.
Trent Green has kept this team from the Superbowl. ROFL

C-Mac
04-29-2005, 09:30 AM
I hate to respond with a somewhat smart-ass comment but how in the world could a Chief's fan of all people debate the depth of the two teams after last year's pathetic showing by KC's starters against our second and third stringers?

Yes, it was a pretty meaningless game but players on both teams, starters or backups were playing for their roster spots.

All due respect but the only "fair" comparison should be the game at Arrowhead(without Holmes). Close game could have went either way.

Boltergeist
04-29-2005, 09:39 AM
I'll counter that by saying that when Green Throws 150 more passes than Brees, it automatically exposes him to more INTs. I'll also counter that Green spent some time heaving the ball downfield, while Brees was throwing alot of safe-short passes due to the offense the eggos run.

1500 yards more in passing. Thats the equivilent of 5 additional 300 yard games Brees would need to catch up. Brees spent alot of time protecting small leads, while Green spent alot of 4th quarters trying regain the lead the defense gave up in the last 2 minutes.


Actually, the Chargers had very large leads in quite a few games which explains the difference in passing attempts as they sat on the ball and brought Jesse Chatman in to mop up. The Chiefs are always in shootout type games or were having to come back from larger deficits which gave Green the opportunity to throw against a lot of prevent defenses that allow chunks of yardage at a time. BTW, 10 INTs in 150 attempts is not a good ratio if that's your reasoning for Green throwing more picks.

Green is a good QB. I've always liked him...Heck, we even drafted the guy...But I think the reality is that Brees is a more accurate QB and he came of age last year. I'm sure some of you saw Brees dominate the accuracy contest at the pro bowl. I don't think Green has that kind of control on his passes.

C-Mac
04-29-2005, 09:42 AM
I'll counter that by saying that when Green Throws 150 more passes than Brees, it automatically exposes him to more INTs. I'll also counter that Green spent some time heaving the ball downfield, while Brees was throwing alot of safe-short passes due to the offense the eggos run.

1500 yards more in passing. Thats the equivilent of 5 additional 300 yard games Brees would need to catch up. Brees spent alot of time protecting small leads, while Green spent alot of 4th quarters trying regain the lead the defense gave up in the last 2 minutes.

Not to mention that at least two I can remember were Hail Mary passes for int's.

Boltergeist
04-29-2005, 09:42 AM
All due respect but the only "fair" comparison should be the game at Arrowhead(without Holmes). Close game could have went either way.

As I recall, the production you guys got from your running back by committe that day was actually more than your typical Priest Holmes day...so I don't think his absence hurt too much. What did hurt us that day also was Dante Hall. I also seem to remember Trent Green coming through for us with an INT late in the game to seal it for us.

caffeinated_virus
04-29-2005, 09:50 AM
But I think the reality is that Brees is a more accurate QB and he came of age last year. I'm sure some of you saw Brees dominate the accuracy contest at the pro bowl. I don't think Green has that kind of control on his passes.

Ok, I was with you for the most part boltergeist, but now I have to disagree on two areas, and I will start with this one first.

First, the accuracty contest in Hawaii is a joke. Stand there and throw the ball and non-moving targets. That's nothing. I, along with 32 other GM's in this league would take a QB who is more accurate in 'game time situations' compared to some accuracy contest. The two are as different as night and day. Just because Peyton Manning didn't win the contest, does that make Brees better than Peyton? :)

Secondly, Brees is accurate, but to a limited point. I don't think Brees accuracy reaches beyond 15 yards. If you look at a lot of the passing plays we call, they are really short routes where the receiver runs 5-10 yards, stops and turns around. This drives me nuts because there is no chance for YAC's. Also, Brees does not throw the long ball well at all IMHO. The times he did throw the long ball, it was nothing pretty or to write home about and that is a big reason why we don't toss the long ball.

Once teams start taking away the short passing game we run, Brees is going to struggle, and I have a sneaking feeling he will fold under the pressure.

Anyone remember Kenny Anderson of the Bengals? Brees reminds me of him a bit. Kenny thrived in the short passing game, but when teams took it away, kenny couldn't beat you with the medium to long range passing game. That is how I see Brees and like i've said numerous times, once teams take that away from us (and the good defenses will) our offense will be shut down.

C-Mac
04-29-2005, 09:54 AM
As I recall, the production you guys got from your running back by committe that day was actually more than your typical Priest Holmes day...so I don't think his absence hurt too much. What did hurt us that day also was Dante Hall. I also seem to remember Trent Green coming through for us with an INT late in the game to seal it for us.

Dante's fumble at the 5 sealed it for you.

Boltergeist
04-29-2005, 10:01 AM
Dante's fumble at the 5 sealed it for you.

Dante got that one back with another TD. Neither special teams breakdowns should have happened for the Chargers.

donkhater
04-29-2005, 10:03 AM
I've always liked Brees as a solid starting QB. His first two years are an example of the classic, reoccuring theme in the NFL. Take a rookie QB, put him on a talent-less team and judge him after 1-2 seasons of play and give up on him.

Some QB's (Manning, Rothleisburger, Marino) will grasp NFL life quickly, but they are the exception. On the other side, there are some that will never grasp itno matter how much talent you surround them with (i.e. Plummer, Fiedler, Couch).

San Diego has a nice problem, but that problem may soon bite them in the butt. If Brees continues to play well, how many how many teams would pony up a #1 draft choice for Rivers if he hasn't played in 2-3 years? specially if there is a better alternative in the draft?

The Bad Guy
04-29-2005, 10:03 AM
Dante got that one back with another TD. Neither special teams breakdowns should have happened for the Chargers.

So him fumbling at the 5 is more likely than him returning another kick?

donkhater
04-29-2005, 10:05 AM
Dante got that one back with another TD. Neither special teams breakdowns should have happened for the Chargers.
Fumbles, missed tackles, tipped balls for interceptions shouldn't happen either, but that doesn't mean they don't count.

Boltergeist
04-29-2005, 10:11 AM
Ok, I was with you for the most part boltergeist, but now I have to disagree on two areas, and I will start with this one first.

First, the accuracty contest in Hawaii is a joke. Stand there and throw the ball and non-moving targets. That's nothing. I, along with 32 other GM's in this league would take a QB who is more accurate in 'game time situations' compared to some accuracy contest. The two are as different as night and day. Just because Peyton Manning didn't win the contest, does that make Brees better than Peyton? :)

Secondly, Brees is accurate, but to a limited point. I don't think Brees accuracy reaches beyond 15 yards. If you look at a lot of the passing plays we call, they are really short routes where the receiver runs 5-10 yards, stops and turns around. This drives me nuts because there is no chance for YAC's. Also, Brees does not throw the long ball well at all IMHO. The times he did throw the long ball, it was nothing pretty or to write home about and that is a big reason why we don't toss the long ball.

Once teams start taking away the short passing game we run, Brees is going to struggle, and I have a sneaking feeling he will fold under the pressure.

Anyone remember Kenny Anderson of the Bengals? Brees reminds me of him a bit. Kenny thrived in the short passing game, but when teams took it away, kenny couldn't beat you with the medium to long range passing game. That is how I see Brees and like i've said numerous times, once teams take that away from us (and the good defenses will) our offense will be shut down.

I wasn't using the skills competition as an example of why Brees is better than any other QB and I certainly don't need a lecture on it. When you're debating with people who say your QB sucks and is a one year wonder, this just reinforces the fact that he is very accurate...which he is....and he proved it all of last year. You can call the skills comp a joke...but all the QB's are competitive and want to win it....and they feel the pressure of not embarassing themselves. I'm amazed that you have that little faith in your QB. I seem to remember him throwing the long ball just fine...exhibit A- his 50 yard touchdown to Eric Parker against TB, his TD to McCardell in the playoffs, or his long TD to Parker against Atlanta. The Chargers just don't have receivers who are vertical threats that can create that type of separation so they don't throw deep a lot. Taking away our shorter passing game is easier said than done...especially considering our option out of the backfield, the accuracy of our QB, and having a TE who can box people out and out jump db's the way he does.

caffeinated_virus
04-29-2005, 10:53 AM
I wasn't using the skills competition as an example of why Brees is better than any other QB and I certainly don't need a lecture on it. When you're debating with people who say your QB sucks and is a one year wonder, this just reinforces the fact that he is very accurate...which he is....and he proved it all of last year. You can call the skills comp a joke...but all the QB's are competitive and want to win it....and they feel the pressure of not embarassing themselves. I'm amazed that you have that little faith in your QB. I seem to remember him throwing the long ball just fine...exhibit A- his 50 yard touchdown to Eric Parker against TB, his TD to McCardell in the playoffs, or his long TD to Parker against Atlanta. The Chargers just don't have receivers who are vertical threats that can create that type of separation so they don't throw deep a lot. Taking away our shorter passing game is easier said than done...especially considering our option out of the backfield, the accuracy of our QB, and having a TE who can box people out and out jump db's the way he does.

No problem. I was just trying to explain that those "skills competitions" in Hawaii are not anything that carry a lot of weight.

Wasn't trying to lecture you, just making valid points. I don't think people here have said Brees sucks. its more of, lets see him do it again before we label him a Great QB, which I think is fair. It can be said for any position of the field for that matter.

Ugh, the long ball to Eric Parker against TB? You mean the one Brees completely underthrew and Parker had to stop, wait for it and in the process the DB fell down? Ya, I remember that one. :shake: That was a "gift".

Next season will be a challenge. No question about it. I'm not ready to say we are going to walk over everyone because I think thats pretty assinine. I can see why people question our team. That was our first winning season in what, 7 years? So ya, I can see there point.

Lets wait and see what the season holds. I think most people would agree though, we won't have a year like last year. We are still not there yet.

Ok...!

Boltergeist
04-29-2005, 11:10 AM
No problem. I was just trying to explain that those "skills competitions" in Hawaii are not anything that carry a lot of weight.

Wasn't trying to lecture you, just making valid points. I don't think people here have said Brees sucks. its more of, lets see him do it again before we label him a Great QB, which I think is fair. It can be said for any position of the field for that matter.

Ugh, the long ball to Eric Parker against TB? You mean the one Brees completely underthrew and Parker had to stop, wait for it and in the process the DB fell down? Ya, I remember that one. :shake: That was a "gift".

Next season will be a challenge. No question about it. I'm not ready to say we are going to walk over everyone because I think thats pretty assinine. I can see why people question our team. That was our first winning season in what, 7 years? So ya, I can see there point.

Lets wait and see what the season holds. I think most people would agree though, we won't have a year like last year. We are still not there yet.

Ok...!

OK...OK...Touche...you do have some points...The long ball is definitely not Brees' forte...which is probably why AJ Smith is not jumping all over trade offers for Rivers. I got a little carried away going tit for tat with the Chiefs fans...and I agree with you on the skills comp. I still think we will be more than OK offensively as one thing Brees has learned to do is play smart...and no one...except maybe LT...has a bigger heart than that guy on our team.

Iowanian
04-29-2005, 11:22 AM
I should go dig through the archives on boltboard and find some gem quotes about Brees, up until about week 6-7. I saw calls for Rivers and Flutie and goodbye notes to Brees.

caffeinated_virus
04-29-2005, 11:39 AM
OK...OK...Touche...you do have some points...The long ball is definitely not Brees' forte...which is probably why AJ Smith is not jumping all over trade offers for Rivers. I got a little carried away going tit for tat with the Chiefs fans...and I agree with you on the skills comp. I still think we will be more than OK offensively as one thing Brees has learned to do is play smart...and no one...except maybe LT...has a bigger heart than that guy on our team.

No worries Boltergeist. I have no problem talking football, debating this, debating that (except politics...that just has a ugly head :) ).

Don't get me wrong. I was thrilled at how well we did last year. However, there is a part of me that thinks it really was a "Cinderall year" because everything and I mean everything went our way. It seemed liked nothing could go wrong for us and I believe Donnie Edwards even said that.

I am anxious for the season, but I also am a realist. I think we are going to be .500 at least this year, but to say we are going 13-3, 14-2 and even 12-4 will be tough and im not ready to say that. There are way to many tough games this year and I think we will regress.

As i've said time and time again, I still feel our offense is way to "vanilla" to be successful in this league. Yes, it worked great last year, but that was because NOBODY expected anything from us. Believe me, you can bet, teams will be gunning for us. We have gun from the hunters, to the hunted.

Completely agree about LT. The guys has more heart than anyone on the Chargers. that is a big reason why I like him a lot as a player.

This year will be tough indeed....

Chief Faithful
04-29-2005, 11:49 AM
The comparison to Brees is Steve Deberg. Same type offense and same type performance. Deberg also made the Probowl throwing short passes behind a powerful running game.

Is the short passing game in SD a product of the WR and QB talent or a product of the O-Line? Marty is well known for hinding the weakness of an O-line with the running game and short passing.

No matter the reason, it will be very hard for Brees and Gates to duplicate last season if they cannot develop a down-field threat. Then again, teams had trouble with the Gannon dink and dunk for a few years so maybe Brees can duplicate last years safe performance.

Nightfyre
04-29-2005, 12:01 PM
Actually, the Chargers had very large leads in quite a few games which explains the difference in passing attempts as they sat on the ball and brought Jesse Chatman in to mop up. The Chiefs are always in shootout type games or were having to come back from larger deficits which gave Green the opportunity to throw against a lot of prevent defenses that allow chunks of yardage at a time. BTW, 10 INTs in 150 attempts is not a good ratio if that's your reasoning for Green throwing more picks.

Green is a good QB. I've always liked him...Heck, we even drafted the guy...But I think the reality is that Brees is a more accurate QB and he came of age last year. I'm sure some of you saw Brees dominate the accuracy contest at the pro bowl. I don't think Green has that kind of control on his passes.
Trent has his go to guy getting mauled by three defenders, without pass interference calls. Thats important to remember, too. That and Green's prolonged success makes him a better QB than Brees, s far. If Brees can string a few seasons together, Ill give him props when they are due.

Boltergeist
04-29-2005, 12:06 PM
The comparison to Brees is Steve Deberg. Same type offense and same type performance. Deberg also made the Probowl throwing short passes behind a powerful running game.

Is the short passing game in SD a product of the WR and QB talent or a product of the O-Line? Marty is well known for hinding the weakness of an O-line with the running game and short passing.

No matter the reason, it will be very hard for Brees and Gates to duplicate last season if they cannot develop a down-field threat. Then again, teams had trouble with the Gannon dink and dunk for a few years so maybe Brees can duplicate last years safe performance.

Actually not the worst comparison if we're talking about DeBerg's ONE stellar season in 1990 where he had 23 TD's and 4 INTS...the rest of his career was bad to mediocre. The passing yards were about the same if you consider Brees only played 15 games and missed out againsts KC's soft secondary in week 16. I can only hope that Brees does a little better with the rest of his career than DeBerg did.

Reche Caldwell is currently our best downfield threat. He was really coming on at the beginning of last year before he got hurt. His presence along with a good possession receiver in McCardell will be helpful.

Boltergeist
04-29-2005, 12:08 PM
Trent has his go to guy getting mauled by three defenders, without pass interference calls. Thats important to remember, too. That and Green's prolonged success makes him a better QB than Brees, s far. If Brees can string a few seasons together, Ill give him props when they are due.


I won't disagree that Trent Green has had a better career than Drew Brees to this point. Where I disagree is with people who are saying Drew was a one year mirage and will flop next year. I don't see it happening.

beer bacon
04-29-2005, 12:13 PM
I won't disagree that Trent Green has had a better career than Drew Brees to this point. Where I disagree is with people who are saying Drew was a one year mirage and will flop next year. I don't see it happening.

Drew has only had one good year. I don't see why anyone should try to argue either way. This is the NFL. There are plenty of flashes in the pan.

Boltergeist
04-29-2005, 12:19 PM
Drew has only had one good year. I don't see why anyone should try to argue either way. This is the NFL. There are plenty of flashes in the pan.

Everyone has to start somewhere. It's also not unusual for a QB to turn the corner in their 3rd year as a starter. There are likewise plenty of examples that support this.

The Bad Guy
04-29-2005, 12:27 PM
Everyone has to start somewhere. It's also not unusual for a QB to turn the corner in their 3rd year as a starter. There are likewise plenty of examples that support this.

And there are several that revert back to their shit form from his first 2 years.

You can keep acting like it's a slam dunk that he maintains his 2004 form, but it's not.

Calcountry
04-29-2005, 01:14 PM
Yeah the Kicker that so many Chiefs fans wanted and didn't get choked and that's a knock on Marty. ROFL I can't believe they drafted such a choker. :rolleyes: Losers!

PhilFree:arrow:Why the fug, did Marty assume that he had it made once he hit the magical 45 yard field goal range? Why was he only running dive plays to "set up" for the field goal, instead of going for the jugular with a pass to Gates or something?

No, Marty's whole fuggin mentality of playing not to lose is whats fugged up, and will continue to fug his teams up, especially in the playoffs.

Boltergeist
04-29-2005, 01:15 PM
And there are several that revert back to their shit form from his first 2 years.

You can keep acting like it's a slam dunk that he maintains his 2004 form, but it's not.


It's no slam dunk that he repeats what he did last year, but I'm pretty confident that he has turned the corner into being a very good NFL QB. I've watched enough football to know that he's not Kordell Stewart. He's very smart, very accurate, and obviously now has command of this offense and reading NFL defenses. I see a lot of Rich Gannon in him which I don't mind at all.

Iowanian
04-29-2005, 01:19 PM
I'd like to mention to Bolt fans, enthusiastic about Caldwell's return(same for Boerigter) that the first year of WRs and RBs coming back from an ACL is usually subpar. Rarely, is someone able to come back full speed in 1 year, if ever from an ACL. I had my knee done a couple of years ago this spring, and its not even close to "100%" of what it was.


Trent Dilfer had a good year too.........but no one mistook him for a great QB. It will be a miracle if there isn't a QB controversy in Eggo by mid year.

Chief Faithful
04-29-2005, 01:31 PM
Actually not the worst comparison if we're talking about DeBerg's ONE stellar season in 1990 where he had 23 TD's and 4 INTS...the rest of his career was bad to mediocre. The passing yards were about the same if you consider Brees only played 15 games and missed out againsts KC's soft secondary in week 16. I can only hope that Brees does a little better with the rest of his career than DeBerg did.

Reche Caldwell is currently our best downfield threat. He was really coming on at the beginning of last year before he got hurt. His presence along with a good possession receiver in McCardell will be helpful.

Sounds like you understand why so many on this board have a wait and see attitude with Brees and Gates. Personally I have always liked Brees, but Marty will never unleash him to become a complete QB. Soon defensive coordinators will figure out how to take advantage of Brees limits. Then the QB controversy will start because eventually Rivers will either have to start or leave so expect some ruff times ahead with the QB situation.

Wasn't it the arrival of McCardell that really triggered the offensive resergence of the short passing game? Plus, even if Marty had a receiver that was a true downfield threat I doubt he would use it. Just ask any Chiefs fan about the Joe Horn debacle. It was the Marty offensive philosophy not the QB and WR that prevented the development of the downfield passing game.

Boltergeist
04-29-2005, 01:34 PM
I'd like to mention to Bolt fans, enthusiastic about Caldwell's return(same for Boerigter) that the first year of WRs and RBs coming back from an ACL is usually subpar. Rarely, is someone able to come back full speed in 1 year, if ever from an ACL. I had my knee done a couple of years ago this spring, and its not even close to "100%" of what it was.


Trent Dilfer had a good year too.........but no one mistook him for a great QB. It will be a miracle if there isn't a QB controversy in Eggo by mid year.

I agree with you on Caldwell. They're saying he looks great but we'll wait to see on that one.

You're really reaching for the one year wonder comparisons...comparing Brees' season to a guy who through for 1500 yards and 12 TDs to 11 INTs in his superbowl year....not to mention the almost 40 point difference in passer rating. If you want to make a point, you really need to stop getting absurd about it. Do I really need to start comparing Trent Green to a Drew Bledsoe without the superbowl appearance even more inflated passing stats on average teams?

I could go the opposite way and compare Brees' stats last year to a typical Joe Montana year...and in no way am I saying Brees is as good as Montana before anyone freaks out....but his stats last year were definately comparable. If he even comes close to what he did last year, I'll be happy.

caffeinated_virus
04-29-2005, 01:45 PM
I'd like to mention to Bolt fans, enthusiastic about Caldwell's return(same for Boerigter) that the first year of WRs and RBs coming back from an ACL is usually subpar. Rarely, is someone able to come back full speed in 1 year, if ever from an ACL. I had my knee done a couple of years ago this spring, and its not even close to "100%" of what it was.

Trent Dilfer had a good year too.........but no one mistook him for a great QB. It will be a miracle if there isn't a QB controversy in Eggo by mid year.

As much as i like Caldwell and think he has a ton of potential, I know how tough it his coming back from a ACL. I don't expect super numbers from Caldwell on his return.

If you don't mind me asking Iowanian, what is your take on Brees? What about Rivers? Your thoughts on what could happen with our QB spot?

I'm very curious to see Rivers play. Everything i've read sounds positive. He is big, 6'5" 230 pounds, very accurate (beyond the 15 yard range) and quick release. He also sounds like a gamer.

caffeinated_virus
04-29-2005, 01:51 PM
Soon defensive coordinators will figure out how to take advantage of Brees limits. Then the QB controversy will start because eventually Rivers will either have to start or leave so expect some ruff times ahead with the QB situation.

This is my fear exactly. Because of our simple offense, I think defensive coordinators can take away Gates (not shut him down, but limit him) and, just like you said, take advantage of Brees limitations. Gates is Brees main target and after that, it gets dicey. I don't think Brees has the ability to take over games or spread the ball around effectively to keep defenses on their heels. Just my thoughts though.


Wasn't it the arrival of McCardell that really triggered the offensive resergence of the short passing game? Plus, even if Marty had a receiver that was a true downfield threat I doubt he would use it. Just ask any Chiefs fan about the Joe Horn debacle. It was the Marty offensive philosophy not the QB and WR that prevented the development of the downfield passing game.

McCardell arrived after Caldwell went down. not sure if it triggered it as I see our current offense "vanilla." Our OC, Cameron, even simplified the playbook for Brees (not what I wanted to hear to be honest).

Anyway, we don't have a deep threat guy and even if we did, I seriously doubt it would help us. Not because Marty wouldnt use him, but because Brees doesn't throw the deep ball well.

Iowanian
04-29-2005, 02:21 PM
If you don't mind me asking Iowanian, what is your take on Brees? What about Rivers? Your thoughts on what could happen with our QB spot?

I'm very curious to see Rivers play. Everything i've read sounds positive. He is big, 6'5" 230 pounds, very accurate (beyond the 15 yard range) and quick release. He also sounds like a gamer.

I'll disclaim that I'm no QB Expert, but from this fans couch, I'll give it my opinion.

Rivers first.
Like every first round QB taken in every draft, Phillip Rivers has the measurables. He's got the height, the frame, a strong arm. While suggest he has a quick release, I thought that was one of the knocks on him, that he had a odd delivery? He was a gamer in College for sure, and against an unmotivated KC defense, with a turd secondary, he was able to complete some passes....but Keep in Mind that Billy Volek and Drew Bennett looked like Marino to Duper vs the KC secondary...the worst in the league last year. For every Peyton Manning drafted high, there are 3 Akili Smith, Ryan Leaf, Cade McKnown's...........Until Rivers gets some significant playing time, there is no way of knowing if he's the next Dan Marino, Kyle Bowler or Todd Blackledge. I'm going to have to see it, to believe it.

Brees.
I said early in the offseason, that I wanted the Bolts to cut him. I couldn't imagine they could afford that much money to be tied up at 1 position on the team and remain competative. I think Brees has potential to be a successful QB in the West Coast offense, which relies more on timed swing passes, quick hitches, flares to backs, TE Seems and 10yd outs. With a good Offensive line and running game....he could be successful.

That said, I don't agree with you on his accuracy being great and think he's got a weak arm by NFL standards. I think beyond a 15yd out, he's reaching. His deep ball is ugly. In the right offense for his talents, and a simple offense, he can be effective.

I'd like to see him have a bad year, become a UFA, have KC sign him to an affordable contract to back up Green for a couple of years, and work under Terry Shea. It won't happen.......

What I see happening, is a Bolt team, opening the season against a very stout Dallas Secondary, Going to Denver, a cakewalk vs the Giants at home, and AT New England prior to Pittsburg.

Thats a schedule with some pretty tough Defenses in 4 of the first 5 weeks. thats a schedule that could easily have your team at 1-4 after week 5. Knowing fickle fans with high expectations....it'll start a QB controversy. Get out of that stretch at 4-1 or 3-2 and I'm a believer that the Eggos are a division contender this year. Then the Bolts go to Oakland and Philly. It could be a rude awakening if the Bolts aren't ready to go.

FWIW...the Chiefs don't start that much better.

caffeinated_virus
04-29-2005, 02:33 PM
I'll disclaim that I'm no QB Expert, but from this fans couch, I'll give it my opinion.

Rivers first.
Like every first round QB taken in every draft, Phillip Rivers has the measurables. He's got the height, the frame, a strong arm. While suggest he has a quick release, I thought that was one of the knocks on him, that he had a odd delivery? He was a gamer in College for sure, and against an unmotivated KC defense, with a turd secondary, he was able to complete some passes....but Keep in Mind that Billy Volek and Drew Bennett looked like Marino to Duper vs the KC secondary...the worst in the league last year. For every Peyton Manning drafted high, there are 3 Akili Smith, Ryan Leaf, Cade McKnown's...........Until Rivers gets some significant playing time, there is no way of knowing if he's the next Dan Marino, Kyle Bowler or Todd Blackledge. I'm going to have to see it, to believe it.

Brees.
I said early in the offseason, that I wanted the Bolts to cut him. I couldn't imagine they could afford that much money to be tied up at 1 position on the team and remain competative. I think Brees has potential to be a successful QB in the West Coast offense, which relies more on timed swing passes, quick hitches, flares to backs, TE Seems and 10yd outs. With a good Offensive line and running game....he could be successful.

Agreed. i think a lot of Charger fans are very anxious to see what we have in Rivers. the word is that the QB spot is up for grabs right now, with Brees having a slight advantage. TC should be interesting.


That said, I don't agree with you on his accuracy being great and think he's got a weak arm by NFL standards. I think beyond a 15yd out, he's reaching. His deep ball is ugly. In the right offense for his talents, and a simple offense, he can be effective.

Wrong guy. :) I think it was boltergeist who said he was very accurate. I'm on the otherside and agree with what you said. He is not accurate beyond 15 yards and his deep ball is, well, ugly.


I'd like to see him have a bad year, become a UFA, have KC sign him to an affordable contract to back up Green for a couple of years, and work under Terry Shea. It won't happen.......

heheh..who knows!


What I see happening, is a Bolt team, opening the season against a very stout Dallas Secondary, Going to Denver, a cakewalk vs the Giants at home, and AT New England prior to Pittsburg.

Thats a schedule with some pretty tough Defenses in 4 of the first 5 weeks. thats a schedule that could easily have your team at 1-4 after week 5. Knowing fickle fans with high expectations....it'll start a QB controversy. Get out of that stretch at 4-1 or 3-2 and I'm a believer that the Eggos are a division contender this year. Then the Bolts go to Oakland and Philly. It could be a rude awakening if the Bolts aren't ready to go.

Believe me, i've looked at our schedule and it is nothing but brutal. I think alot of Charger fans (and I don't speak for the whole lot) are completely overlooking teams that we shouldn't be:

-Dallas, after they draft they had, their defense is going to be extremely tough. Their secondary is very good. I expect their defense to be top 10.

-Denver, while I don't want to overlook them, we never beat them in their house. They have our number there.

-Giants, I hope we win.

-Pitt, will be very tough game indeed. #1 D last year and #1 against the run, our bread and butter.

Doesn't get much easier when we go to Philly, NE, Washington, NYJ and Indy. Lets not forget the 2 games against KC, and I think we will split.


FWIW...the Chiefs don't start that much better.

SHould be a heck of a battle forthe AFC West.

milkman
04-29-2005, 08:17 PM
Brees
I said early in the offseason, that I wanted the Bolts to cut him. I couldn't imagine they could afford that much money to be tied up at 1 position on the team and remain competative. I think Brees has potential to be a successful QB in the West Coast offense, which relies more on timed swing passes, quick hitches, flares to backs, TE Seems and 10yd outs. With a good Offensive line and running game....he could be successful.

Personally, because of his weak arm, I wouldn't want Brees.
He fits into what SD is doing on offense, but he wouldn't fit into KCs offense.
Our passing game is designed to stretch the field, passes that Brees doesn't have the arm strength to deliver.
Green's arm strength isn't great, but is much better than Brees.

I'd rather persue a Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey, if either, or both are released after next season.

I think their ability to get the ball down the field fits much better.

milkman
04-29-2005, 08:21 PM
I don't know for sure but I don't think Marty was calling his own plays in the playoff games he's coached. I'll never be a Marty basher/hater. IMO he's a good coach but he hasn't won it all and that will be his legacy until he does.

PhilFree:arrow:

Just another excuse.
Their playcalling is a direct reflection of Marty's play not to lose philosophy.
I'm betting it wasn't Cam Cameron's decision to protect the ball and set Kaeding up for that game losing 45 yd FG attempt.

That's all on Marty.
That's the Martyocre way.

cool_brees
04-30-2005, 12:03 AM
Believe me, i've looked at our schedule and it is nothing but brutal. I think alot of Charger fans (and I don't speak for the whole lot) are completely overlooking teams that we shouldn't be:

-Dallas, after they draft they had, their defense is going to be extremely tough. Their secondary is very good. I expect their defense to be top 10.

-Denver, while I don't want to overlook them, we never beat them in their house. They have our number there.

-Giants, I hope we win.

-Pitt, will be very tough game indeed. #1 D last year and #1 against the run, our bread and butter.

Doesn't get much easier when we go to Philly, NE, Washington, NYJ and Indy. Lets not forget the 2 games against KC, and I think we will split.



The Chargers road schedule is brutal but actually I think it's a blessing in disguise. Having the tough games on the road might actually be a favorable thing. Road games are supposed to be tough in the first place while your home games are the ones that you must win. Actually, it's not so different than from last year. If the Chargers can take care of business at home, which on paper appears to be a strong possility, then they'll be in contention for the division title/wild card.

It's fun to discuss these things but we all know it's way too early to take an educated guess as to what will happen. A few teams will suprise and come out of nowhere and a few favorites will nosedive. We'll see how tough the respective schedules are come the start of the season.

As for Brees, I don't he has great accuracy in either the short or the long game; he's terribly inconsistent. There are times where he makes some amazing throws but there are times where he throws behind his receiver on a 5 yard pass. However, he is one of the most determined players that has come to the team in a while. He plays his heart out and has the will and the confidence to lead a team to a championship in my opinion. if you don't play with your heart, you won't stand a chance.

Nightfyre
04-30-2005, 04:05 AM
I still can't believe a CHARGERS fan called scoreboard. :shake:

patteeu
04-30-2005, 07:19 AM
... Also, Brees does not throw the long ball well at all IMHO. The times he did throw the long ball, it was nothing pretty or to write home about and that is a big reason why we don't toss the long ball. ...

In the interest of full disclosure, Green doesn't throw the long ball very well either. He does get a few shots at it per game, but he is most successful when the offense tricks the defense (IOW Tony G draws the safety away) and he gets a guy deep who is wide open. Even then, he often either underthrows the pass causing the receiver to slow down to make the catch (which allows the defender to catch up) or he overthrows it and it drops incomplete. He does throw the moderately long pass down the middle to Tony G pretty well, but some of that can be attributed to Tony G's ability to make the catch even when the ball isn't perfectly targeted.

Green's key assets are his smarts and his leadership qualities.

Count Zarth
04-30-2005, 07:21 AM
In the interest of full disclosure, Green doesn't throw the long ball very well either. He does get a few shots at it per game, but he is most successful when the offense tricks the defense (IOW Tony G draws the safety away) and he gets a guy deep who is wide open. Even then, he often either underthrows the pass causing the receiver to slow down to make the catch (which allows the defender to catch up) or he overthrows it and it drops incomplete. He does throw the moderately long pass down the middle to Tony G pretty well, but some of that can be attributed to Tony G's ability to make the catch even when the ball isn't perfectly targeted.

Green's key assets are his smarts and his leadership qualities.

Kerry Collins throws a great deep ball. Who is the better NFL QB?

Nuff said.

patteeu
04-30-2005, 07:41 AM
Ugh, the long ball to Eric Parker against TB? You mean the one Brees completely underthrew and Parker had to stop, wait for it and in the process the DB fell down? Ya, I remember that one. :shake: That was a "gift".

It's funny that you say that. That's exactly the kind of long ball that Trent Green often throws. My fellow Chiefs fans may argue with my position that he doesn't throw the long ball that well because the Chiefs were at or near the top of the league in long pass completions, but I think that is because of our system (that keeps defenses off balance) rather than our talent (no one's going to confuse our WR's with TO, Torry Holt or Randy Moss anytime soon). Don't get me wrong though, I'm a big Trent Green fan.

patteeu
04-30-2005, 07:43 AM
Kerry Collins throws a great deep ball. Who is the better NFL QB?

Nuff said.

We discussed this before. I'm a big Trent Green fan. I agree with the point you are making about Trent Green versus Kerry Collins completely.