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View Full Version : How Much Will The Chiefs D Improve From 2004 to 2005?


philfree
04-26-2005, 07:47 PM
Where will the Chiefs D end up being ranked? Can they go from damn near worst to damn near 1st? Or even 1st? I think Gun has the players to make it top 10 and maybe even top 5. What's everybody think? There was a similar thread the last couple years after the draft I figured it was due.

PhilFree:arrow:

Count Zarth
04-26-2005, 07:56 PM
Top 5 is a stretch, IMO. We don't have even one dominant player on the D-Line, and I think you need that to be a great defense. I think we'll definitely be top 15. The main thing is not giving up first downs on third and long.

Tribal Warfare
04-26-2005, 08:00 PM
Anywhere from 6th-12th ranked defense

SCTrojan
04-26-2005, 08:03 PM
I think we have done enough to get into the mid-teens. There's been this theory in the last two years that if we could just get a decent defense, we'd get to the Super Bowl. I'd like to put that theory to the test this year.

jcroft
04-26-2005, 08:08 PM
I'm hoping they'll be 10-15th. Anything beyond that is a bonus. Like someone said, we lack dominance on our D-line, although the potential is there for it with Allen and Sims.

10th-15th should be good enough to get us deep into the playoffs if our offense can maintain what it's been up to the past few years.

Here's hoping!

tk13
04-26-2005, 08:16 PM
I think the catch to that though, is if we're really top 10-15, our offense will be able to get us leads, which makes other teams air-it-out to catch us, which allows Gunther to gear toward the pass and come after the QB... which is what Gunther wants. Could help propel our ranking even higher. That's how those Rams SB teams had top 10 defenses, although often when they got in a low scoring game those Rams defenses could do what it took to win. That's how our D was at the beginning of 2003, hopefully we can get that back.

CosmicPal
04-26-2005, 08:21 PM
Top 5 is overly optimistic don't you think?

Despite what others might think, our D-Line was actually respectable in some stats, and I think they can actually improve upon that with more familiarity with the system.

The D-Backs situation is still shaky. Yes, still shaky. Surtain is only good for one receiver, and although it's an improvement, it won't be enough to stop teams like Indy from passing on us all day long.

The Safety situation however is greatly improved with the signing of Knight. Wesley and Woods, despite a lot of peeps dissatisfaction, were formidable players back there and with the addition of Knight- it will create a healthy competetion which will ultimately improve that position overall.

Finally, the linebackers. Bell and Derrick Johnson will be immediate upgrades, but Bell is being counted on to be the leader while learning a new defensive scheme as well. Injuries to Barber and Maz may never pan out, and I expect them both to be released. Fujita, we have no idea if and when he'll recover. That's three starters down. Therefore, we may be forced to put Kawika Mitchell in the middle with alongside "Boomer" who has all the tangibles, but still needs to learn a new defensive scheme which may be overwhelming to him.

We have no idea if Fox will be elevated from his special teams role and we have no idea if Mitchell will improve upon his last few games. If he does, it might be sweet.

Overall- the defense is improved, but there are still some major holes and a LOT of young, talented guys trying to absorb it all.

Realistically, I see us in the top 20, but this is certainly not a top 10 D.

I'm still not sold on our nicklebacks.

Sims MUST play up to and beyond his potential.

Jared Allen must continue to improve upon his rookie performance.

Siavii must prove he's worthy of being a pro player.

Wilkerson MUST finally get over the hump and become the player we drafted him early for.

Bell MUST stay injury free. If we lose Bell, gawd knows what will happen to our D.

Derrick Johnson MUST prove he was worthy of a first round pick.

THINGS WE CAN COUNT ON:

Surtain and Warfield will make a nice pair.

Knight will command the backfield.

Kawika Mitchell will have a better understanding of his role and the schemes.

And the unit as a whole will be much better with another year under Gunther.

Bell will be a nice leader to our young linebacking corps.

philfree
04-26-2005, 08:22 PM
I'm hoping they'll be 10-15th. Anything beyond that is a bonus. Like someone said, we lack dominance on our D-line, although the potential is there for it with Allen and Sims.

10th-15th should be good enough to get us deep into the playoffs if our offense can maintain what it's been up to the past few years.

Here's hoping!

I think Dalton figures into the equation at DT and if he improves on last year he'll be playing at a fairly high level. I also think once Gunther gets them playing well he'll win the chess match on sundays. Someone should make a poll.


PhilFree:arrow:

Count Zarth
04-26-2005, 08:23 PM
Hell, the Broncos didn't have a dominant player on their D-line last year and they were top five. :hmmm:

Inspector
04-26-2005, 08:27 PM
That's a tough question.

I'm not enough of a football technician to figure this out, but I'm hoping for something in the top 15 - or better.

If the O shows up again this year, and we actually do end up with a D in the top 15, then deep in the playoffs we go.....and maybe even the big dance??

Damn, when is the first preseason game? I need to see these guys on the field...soon. This is truly the longets part of the offseason, between thr draft and the beginning of TC.

StcChief
04-26-2005, 08:32 PM
7th-15th Should get us deep in playoffs.

Rausch
04-26-2005, 08:34 PM
I think we'll move down to 16 by the end of the season. Now, year after next we should be kick-azz...

philfree
04-26-2005, 08:35 PM
Top 5 is overly optimistic don't you think?

Yeah that's why I said maybe. I do believe we can be a top 10 defense though. We should be able to shut teams down at Arrowhead again with this group of players. We have enough speed now that the crowd noise will actually make a difference again. I think that figures into where we end up ranking. Hopefully we'll play well and then get a swagger that will cause us to get better and better as the season goes on. Just kinda start kickin a-s and taking names. Wouldn't that be fun for a change?

PhilFree:arrow:

CosmicPal
04-26-2005, 08:38 PM
What I DO believe is we can/will be a top ten 10 in the next couple of years. We do have a lot of young talent on this D, and if they all learn and compete well, they could really blossom. Particularly, if we get a couple of steals out of this years draft as I think we have....

yoswif
04-26-2005, 08:40 PM
Hopefully, the Chiefs will give up lots of garbage time yards while milking a large lead. I'll predict top 15 in yards allowed and top 8 in scoring D.

C-Mac
04-26-2005, 08:41 PM
I look at it this way, what was the average points the Chiefs lost their games by? A touchdown or less. The new D additions should get us back 7 to 10 points......easy.

royr17
04-26-2005, 08:43 PM
There Defense will improve Tremendously with the acquisitions we picked up this offseason.

C-Mac
04-26-2005, 08:44 PM
Top 5 is a stretch, IMO. We don't have even one dominant player on the D-Line, and I think you need that to be a great defense. I think we'll definitely be top 15. The main thing is not giving up first downs on third and long.

I couldnt live thru another season like that, them 3rd and extra longs were the worst.
:banghead:
They did better on 3rd and shorts. :rolleyes:

Spott
04-26-2005, 08:47 PM
Well, at least we can't get much worse than 31st in the league. No way will we make it to the top 10 next year.

philfree
04-26-2005, 08:48 PM
I couldnt live thru another season like that, them 3rd and extra longs were the worst.
:banghead:
They did better on 3rd and shorts. :rolleyes:

How many of those were on Bartee? Hell our D improves ten spots just buy putting Surtain on the field instead of Bartee/McClingons. I'm serious!

PhilFree:arrow:

C-Mac
04-26-2005, 08:55 PM
How many of those were on Bartee? Hell our D improves ten spots just buy putting Surtain on the field instead of Bartee/McClingons. I'm serious!

PhilFree:arrow:

I'm with ya, Warfield held his own, but they continually pounded that left side whether it was Bartee, Mcleon, or Battle. Surtain, Knight and Bell will command respect from opposing QB's instantly .

Chiefs Pantalones
04-26-2005, 08:57 PM
Won't know until we play.

philfree
04-26-2005, 09:04 PM
I'm with ya, Warfield held his own, but they continually pounded that left side whether it was Bartee, Mcleon, or Battle. Surtain, Knight and Bell will command respect from opposing QB's instantly .

No more "just chuck it at 24"........


PhilFree:arrow:

C-Mac
04-26-2005, 09:12 PM
No more "just chuck it at 24"........
PhilFree:arrow:

The ole "24 belly option, 7 point winger"
That was probably the most complex play used by opposing offenses. ROFL

kcfanintitanhell
04-26-2005, 09:27 PM
Won't know until we play.

And if you're watching the game at home you can get Bartee off your porch by paying him for the pizza.

Mr. Kotter
04-26-2005, 09:29 PM
31st to 14th...you read it here FIRST, bitch!

plbrdude
04-26-2005, 09:47 PM
i'm overly optomistic ,but i think between 15-10 is very realistic.
matter of fact i really believe that if we can put a defense on the field right near the top ten and hold the offensive production where its been 3 of the next 5 stupid bowls are ours.

ROYC75
04-26-2005, 09:58 PM
I thinking 10 - 15 range.

ChiefsCountry
04-26-2005, 10:49 PM
10-15 range should be about right, our offense is too good for the teams sake sometimes. The big thing is if Sims can be the player we invisioned when we drafted him, that could be the whole key to the defense success this season.

beavis
04-26-2005, 10:51 PM
I'm hoping they'll be 10-15th. Anything beyond that is a bonus. Like someone said, we lack dominance on our D-line, although the potential is there for it with Allen and Sims.

10th-15th should be good enough to get us deep into the playoffs if our offense can maintain what it's been up to the past few years.

Here's hoping!
Knowing our luck, even if that did happen, the offense will go to shit.

crossbow
04-26-2005, 11:11 PM
Two big things happened during the off season to our defense:

1) Key positions will be stocked with guys that take the ball away from the opponent. Corner, Safety, and Linebacker. Even if the D-line stays the same the overall quality of the defense will be much better simply from the turn-overs these guys were brought in to create.

2) Punter will put the teams back farther, forcing longer drives so there will be more opportunity for turnovers and sacks. Also, if the punter can make the other team start their drives at the 20 yard line then that forces them to use more running plays which is what Gunther wants. Just improving the punter alone, would have made last years defense stay on the field for a little bit longer. That would have given the offense more time to rest and hopefully not break down like they did in the 4th quarter of some of those games we lost.

Wallcrawler
04-27-2005, 02:47 AM
I dont see top 5.

With as much time as this defense will be on the field simply due to the offense we have.

Either the offense will go out there and aggressively go 3 and out and put our D back on the field, or the offense will go down the field and score repeatedly.

When you have a high scoring offense like this, that doesnt play a lot of ball control like they should, your defense ends up on the field much more than your average defense.


What would the Ravens D be ranked I wonder, if they didnt have Jamal Lewis grinding the clock down in most games?



I think for this defense to get to where it needs to be, Dick and Al are going to have to alter their offensive playcalling on gameday once they get up by a couple of scores, and slow the game down. These guys are in love with the pass, and the passing game makes the games go on much longer than they should. If Al would just buckle down and grind the clock when we have a lead, it would help out this defense tremendously.


I think back to that Christmas game against the Raiders, when the Chiefs had the lead, the ball, around 2 minutes left, and Al was STILL calling pass plays. It led to a sack and fumble by Trent Green, and nearly cost us the f'ing game, because he wouldnt just grind the clock out. The Raiders went on to score and take the lead, and if it werent for Dante Hall's massive kickoff return, we would have lost the game.

This type of stuff is going to have to be adjusted. You cant take chances like that simply because you get bored with running the ball behind the best O-line in the league. Thats what they are there for. It worked like a charm against the Ravens D, when the Chiefs offense absolutely dominated the entire game, and ruled the time of possession.


But that aggressive style is not likely to change, and as I said, with the way our offense either scores so fast, or goes 3 and out so fast, our defense is going to be playing many more snaps than the average defense, and will be hard pressed to reach top 5, especially with all these new guys in their first year of playing as a unit.


If the defense can keep the opposing offense from scoring 5 touchdowns a game, we will win the west and be headed for the playoffs.

Bwana
04-27-2005, 02:49 AM
11th

keg in kc
04-27-2005, 05:41 AM
I think we have the personnel in place to make an incredible leap in '05, but I don't think that will necessarily be reflected by the stat rankings. I'm expecting a bit of a slow start as we gel. As long as we manage to win enough early that we're in a position to contend, what will matter most is how we're playing at the end.

But teams have made big jumps before, from the bottom of the league to the top. It's not unheard of...

And we've added a lot, really.

FringeNC
04-27-2005, 06:10 AM
The offense is the strength of this team. On D, what I want to see are some 3-and-outs and some take-aways. The lack of take-aways (and some key unfortunate give-aways) was the big reason we won so many fewer games.

the Talking Can
04-27-2005, 07:29 AM
I remember people last year saying we'd be a top 15 defense.

Coach
04-27-2005, 07:32 AM
I remeber people last year saying we'd be a top 15 defense.

Yeah, that didn't quite turn out as well as we hoped for.

I'm going to say between 15-20 at best.

King_Chief_Fan
04-27-2005, 07:44 AM
Top 15 at best.
It depends on that d line. I still have doubts about their ability to push and get to the qb or stop the run consistantly. I am hoping however, no more 3rd and longs being converted for 1st downs by the other teams.

tyton75
04-27-2005, 08:57 AM
If BOOMER starts.. we'll be #1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Braincase
04-27-2005, 09:37 AM
12-16. How much do we need it to go up? If we stop one touchdown per game more than we did last season, we win 4 more games and tie two others. That's playoffs, fellas.

Brock
04-27-2005, 09:43 AM
When you have a high scoring offense like this, that doesnt play a lot of ball control like they should, your defense ends up on the field much more than your average defense.

That's a load. The Chiefs were number one in the league in TOP. The problem is, it took the other team about 6 plays to score.

ct
04-27-2005, 09:49 AM
I'll say 13

[edit]
Second thought, I bet we're still around 20.

milkman
04-27-2005, 09:53 AM
This D will rank somewhere between #1 and #32 :p

ct
04-27-2005, 09:56 AM
Keep in mind D rankings are based on Yards allowed. Best case scenario, our new look defense can perform well in the 1st 3 quarters, our offense continues to perform at a high level, so most likely we'll still give up a lot of yardage as teams air it out towards the end of games, and if we have a nice lead, giving up late game garbage yardage will be of no concern. This is best case, in which case, our yardage allowed ranking will still be lower half I bet.

Rain Man
04-27-2005, 10:23 AM
How Much Will The Chiefs D Improve From 2004 to 2005?

I'm trying to calculate it, but I keep getting a "Divide by Zero" error.


coryt has a good point. If the offense is smokin', our opponents will be passing a lot, and they'll naturally produce more yards.

Freekofnature
04-27-2005, 10:28 AM
Worse than you think.