View Full Version : Prop 200 Screening Out Illegal Voters
BIG_DADDY
05-09-2005, 04:47 PM
Prop 200 Screening Out Illegal Voters
Stricter immigration laws now on the books in Arizona that require elections officials to check for proof of citizenship have uncovered thousands of new registrants who don't qualify to vote.
According to the Arizona Daily Star, state election officials credit the citizenship requirement contained in Proposition 200, the illegal-immigration initiative passed last November, for screening out the illegal voters.
In Arizona's Prima County alone, elections officials have rejected 59 percent of all applicants in the last two weeks - or 423 of the 712 new registrants.
"We rejected none during the same period last year," when six times as many people were registering because of the presidential election, said Registrar of Voters Chris Roads. "There was nothing in the law that required a rejection" last year, he explained.
Most voter registration forms rejected by Prima County since April 20, when officials started keeping track, were submitted by new voters who provided no valid proof of citizenship whatsoever, Roads said.
Despite the fact that it's illegal for non-citizens to vote, the rejections had Arizona Democrats up in arms.
Paul Eckerstrom, chairman of the Prima County Democratic Party, complained that forcing Arizona voters to prove their citizenship is "anti-American and anti-democracy."
"It's just another obstacle for voters to deal with," Eckerstrom griped. "The whole idea behind this thing is to suppress voter turnout."
He said Proposition 200's "real intent" was to make it difficult for voters - especially those inclined to vote Democratic - to cast a ballot.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this "screening out illegal voters" translate into "screening out people who haven't shown ID yet"?
What says any of those 423 were from non-citizens who aren't otherwise qualified to vote?
Maybe I'm missing something.
You didn't provide a link, care to source this?
You didn't provide a link, care to source this?
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/5/9/114705.shtml
Why do people who post articles from RWNJ websites (regardless of accuracy or merit) feel compelled to hide the source? It's not just you BD... RL has been the posterboy for this for a long time.
BD, did you bother to read the actual AZ Daily Star article?
It's says NOTHING about non-citzens caught trying to register. Nothing.
Of course if you let NewsMax translate the story for you, you'd never have that idea without asking the question and researching it yourself.
ENDelt260
05-09-2005, 05:22 PM
Heh... if there's so many illegals voting, how the hell did Prop 200 pass in the first place?
Here's the complete story that NewsMax doesn't want you to read...
The only note-worthy thing in the article is that there are forms all over the state that don't reflect the new changes in the law and that it's leading to people being unable to register properly.
You'd never learn any of that if you use a RW propaganda "news" source without a healthy dose of skepticism and access to Google News to figure out the truth on your own.
http://www.dailystar.com/dailystar/dailystar/73883.php
Prop. 200 bouncing new voter sign-ups
By C.J. Karamargin
ARIZONA DAILY STAR
Failure to provide proof of citizenship is forcing Pima County election officials to reject an unprecedented number of voter registration forms.
Over the last two weeks, the county has rejected 59 percent or 423 of the 712 registration forms it has received from prospective new voters, said Registrar of Voters Chris Roads.
"We rejected none during the same period last year," when six times as many people were registering because of the presidential election, Roads said. "There was nothing in the law that required a rejection."
New this year are the citizenship requirements contained in Proposition 200, the anti-illegal- immigration initiative passed by Arizona voters last November.
Since the proposition went into effect in January, new voters have been required to prove they are citizens with a passport, a birth certificate, naturalization papers, tribal documents or a driver's license issued after October 1996. Voters who submit registration forms to change their name, address or party affiliation are exempt.
Most voter registration forms rejected by the county since April 20, when officials started keeping track, were submitted by new voters who provided no valid proof of citizenship whatsoever, Roads said. Eleven people provided incomplete driver's license information.
The ranks of rejected voters include 61-year-old Rachel Everett of Ajo. She moved to Pima County from Yavapai County in March and promptly registered to vote. But the registration form she picked up from the post office didn't ask for anything like a driver's license number and she didn't provide it.
"I just figured the law hadn't taken effect yet," said Everett.
Like other prospective voters who submitted forms without proof of citizenship, Everett received a letter from the county informing her that she would not be registered until she complied with the law.
"I'm going to Xerox my driver's license and send it to them," she said.
Everett's experience is not uncommon. New voter registration forms that include Proposition 200's citizenship requirements are awaiting approval from the U.S. Justice Department and are expected to be available in mid-June, Roads said.
State elections officials expect the new forms to go a long way in making sure people know what is needed to join the state's 2.6 million voters.
"We recognized there was going to be some potential confusion," said Assistant Secretary of State Kevin Tyne. "People are still learning about the new rules."
Judi White, chairwoman of the Pima County Republican Party, praised county officials for notifying voters their registration forms are incomplete but said that puts the responsibility on voters to re-register with the needed documentation.
"I would just hope they take the necessary steps to register properly," White said.
Paul Eckerstrom, chairman of the county Democratic Party, expects many voters to give up in frustration. As an opponent of Proposition 200, he remains convinced that its citizenship requirements are unnecessary because few if any illegal entrants have ever been prosecuted in Arizona for voting. The initiative's "real intent," he said, was to make it difficult for voters - especially those inclined to vote Democratic - to cast a ballot.
"It's anti-American, anti-democracy," Eckerstrom said. "It's just another obstacle for voters to deal with. The whole idea behind this thing is to suppress voter turnout."
But Kathy McKee, the founder of a citizens group that put Proposition 200 on last year's ballot, rejected that. The goal was never to make it difficult for Arizonans to vote, she said, but simply to make sure those who do vote are U.S. citizens.
McKee said she was "just astounded" that new voter registration forms are not available six months after more than 1 million Arizona voters gave Proposition 200 their blessing.
"I don't understand why the new forms aren't out there. How long does it take to design a voter registration form?" McKee said. "It's a shame people are being inconvenienced. Shame on the government bureaucracy for not having the forms available."
Audrey Adkisson got a small taste of the bureaucracy when she registered to vote last month. The 24-year-old charter school teacher from New Mexico filled out a voter registration form at a Tucson Motor Vehicles Division office when she obtained her Arizona driver's license.
But because she did not include her license number, the county sent Adkisson the same letter it sent Everett. Adkisson said she is frustrated because she handed the form to someone at MVD who could have informed her then of the citizenship requirement.
"It could have been fixed at that point," she said, adding that she will eventually re-register. "At least they make it easy by giving you a self-addressed, stamped envelope."
Smoothing the process somewhat for county election officials is that, compared with last year, it's a rather slow time for voter registration.
Between Jan. 1 and May 5, Roads' office has received 10,489 valid voter registration forms. Over the same period last year, as voters were gearing up for the county's open-space bond election and the presidential contest, 60,688 valid forms were received.
In both years, Roads said, more than 70 percent of the voters submitting registration forms did so to change their name, address or party affiliation.
BIG_DADDY
05-09-2005, 05:24 PM
Why do people who post articles from RWNJ websites (regardless of accuracy or merit) feel compelled to hide the source? It's not just you BD... RL has been the posterboy for this for a long time.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/5/9/114705.shtml
BD, did you bother to read the actual AZ Daily Star article?
It's says NOTHING about non-citzens caught trying to register. Nothing.
Of course if you let NewsMax translate the story for you, you'd never have that idea without asking the question and researching it yourself.
Sheezus jaz calm down I just got it as an email. I think it's a great idea and you have to admit it will keep the illegals from voting. It's a big problem in California and I'll bet it is there as well.
BIG_DADDY
05-09-2005, 05:26 PM
Here's the complete story that NewsMax doesn't want you to read...
The only note-worthy thing in the article is that there are forms all over the state that don't reflect the new changes in the law and that it's leading to people being unable to register properly.
You'd never learn any of that if you use a RW propaganda "news" source without a healthy dose of skepticism and access to Google News to figure out the truth on your own.
http://www.dailystar.com/dailystar/dailystar/73883.php
Prop. 200 bouncing new voter sign-ups
By C.J. Karamargin
ARIZONA DAILY STAR
Failure to provide proof of citizenship is forcing Pima County election officials to reject an unprecedented number of voter registration forms.
Over the last two weeks, the county has rejected 59 percent or 423 of the 712 registration forms it has received from prospective new voters, said Registrar of Voters Chris Roads.
"We rejected none during the same period last year," when six times as many people were registering because of the presidential election, Roads said. "There was nothing in the law that required a rejection."
New this year are the citizenship requirements contained in Proposition 200, the anti-illegal- immigration initiative passed by Arizona voters last November.
Since the proposition went into effect in January, new voters have been required to prove they are citizens with a passport, a birth certificate, naturalization papers, tribal documents or a driver's license issued after October 1996. Voters who submit registration forms to change their name, address or party affiliation are exempt.
Most voter registration forms rejected by the county since April 20, when officials started keeping track, were submitted by new voters who provided no valid proof of citizenship whatsoever, Roads said. Eleven people provided incomplete driver's license information.
The ranks of rejected voters include 61-year-old Rachel Everett of Ajo. She moved to Pima County from Yavapai County in March and promptly registered to vote. But the registration form she picked up from the post office didn't ask for anything like a driver's license number and she didn't provide it.
"I just figured the law hadn't taken effect yet," said Everett.
Like other prospective voters who submitted forms without proof of citizenship, Everett received a letter from the county informing her that she would not be registered until she complied with the law.
"I'm going to Xerox my driver's license and send it to them," she said.
Everett's experience is not uncommon. New voter registration forms that include Proposition 200's citizenship requirements are awaiting approval from the U.S. Justice Department and are expected to be available in mid-June, Roads said.
State elections officials expect the new forms to go a long way in making sure people know what is needed to join the state's 2.6 million voters.
"We recognized there was going to be some potential confusion," said Assistant Secretary of State Kevin Tyne. "People are still learning about the new rules."
Judi White, chairwoman of the Pima County Republican Party, praised county officials for notifying voters their registration forms are incomplete but said that puts the responsibility on voters to re-register with the needed documentation.
"I would just hope they take the necessary steps to register properly," White said.
Paul Eckerstrom, chairman of the county Democratic Party, expects many voters to give up in frustration. As an opponent of Proposition 200, he remains convinced that its citizenship requirements are unnecessary because few if any illegal entrants have ever been prosecuted in Arizona for voting. The initiative's "real intent," he said, was to make it difficult for voters - especially those inclined to vote Democratic - to cast a ballot.
"It's anti-American, anti-democracy," Eckerstrom said. "It's just another obstacle for voters to deal with. The whole idea behind this thing is to suppress voter turnout."
But Kathy McKee, the founder of a citizens group that put Proposition 200 on last year's ballot, rejected that. The goal was never to make it difficult for Arizonans to vote, she said, but simply to make sure those who do vote are U.S. citizens.
McKee said she was "just astounded" that new voter registration forms are not available six months after more than 1 million Arizona voters gave Proposition 200 their blessing.
"I don't understand why the new forms aren't out there. How long does it take to design a voter registration form?" McKee said. "It's a shame people are being inconvenienced. Shame on the government bureaucracy for not having the forms available."
Audrey Adkisson got a small taste of the bureaucracy when she registered to vote last month. The 24-year-old charter school teacher from New Mexico filled out a voter registration form at a Tucson Motor Vehicles Division office when she obtained her Arizona driver's license.
But because she did not include her license number, the county sent Adkisson the same letter it sent Everett. Adkisson said she is frustrated because she handed the form to someone at MVD who could have informed her then of the citizenship requirement.
"It could have been fixed at that point," she said, adding that she will eventually re-register. "At least they make it easy by giving you a self-addressed, stamped envelope."
Smoothing the process somewhat for county election officials is that, compared with last year, it's a rather slow time for voter registration.
Between Jan. 1 and May 5, Roads' office has received 10,489 valid voter registration forms. Over the same period last year, as voters were gearing up for the county's open-space bond election and the presidential contest, 60,688 valid forms were received.
In both years, Roads said, more than 70 percent of the voters submitting registration forms did so to change their name, address or party affiliation.
Yea, so what's the big ****ing difference?
ENDelt260
05-09-2005, 05:28 PM
Haha... that's great, you have to provide documentation of your citzenship, but the form doesn't tell you to. Classic.
That aside, assuming they get the form stuff straightened out, I don't understand what the bitch is. How f*cking hard is it to send a photocopy of your driver license in w/ the voter registration form? Why would this prevent democrat registrations? Is the implication that democrats are too stupid to complete this task, but other voters will manage just fine?
If someone can't figure out how to photocopy their driver license, do we really want that person voting?
Sheezus jaz calm down I just got it as an email. I think it's a great idea and you have to admit it will keep the illegals from voting. It's a big problem in California and I'll bet it is there as well.
My problem isn't with you (other than not taking the time to post the link).
My problem is with NewsMax in general.
This article from NewsMax shows EVERYTHING that's wrong with trusting them to tell you what's actually going on in the world.
Seriously.
Did you have any knowledge that those 423 people weren't illegal immigrants? You might have guessed when the number was 59% (as EnDelt's question illustrates). Those who want it to believe that there's a HUGE problem of illegal immigrants voting would never raise the question and happily read the NewsMax garbage as gospel.
Yea, so what's the big ****ing difference?
Important details that end up on the editing room floor because they contrast with NewsMax's RWNJ agenda?
BIG_DADDY
05-09-2005, 05:39 PM
My problem isn't with you (other than not taking the time to post the link).
.
I told you jew bloody box, it was an email.
Haha... that's great, you have to provide documentation of your citzenship, but the form doesn't tell you to. Classic.
That aside, assuming they get the form stuff straightened out, I don't understand what the bitch is. How f*cking hard is it to send a photocopy of your driver license in w/ the voter registration form? Why would this prevent democrat registrations? Is the implication that democrats are too stupid to complete this task, but other voters will manage just fine?
If someone can't figure out how to photocopy their driver license, do we really want that person voting?
If you've ever gone out trying to register people to vote, you'd recoginze that's it's difficult enough as easy as it was before. The biggest hassle (R or D) was getting people to take the time/effort to fill out the forms.
Much of the voter registration happens in Door-to-door campaigns, where carrying around a photocopier is hard enough... getting someone to give you a copy of their drivers license is even harder.
Will that hurt Democrats directly? Not really, other than to keep down overall registration... which historically benefits Republicans.
BIG_DADDY
05-09-2005, 05:42 PM
Important details that end up on the editing room floor because they contrast with NewsMax's RWNJ agenda?
Why is it going to hurt the demorats more? WHy are they against it? BECAUSE ILLEGALS WANT THEIR FREE HAND OUTS AND WILL VOTE FOR DEMORATS. YOu know it too, I am amazed that your actually upset about this. I think all states should impliment it. It will get rid of the free handouts at the very least.
I told you jew bloody box, it was an email.
Wow, I found a link to your email?
Creepy.
I get those type of emails all the time, and there is a correponding article on the website. If you are going to take the effort to click over here a few times and post your email... you can easily do what I did, and click one more time to get the link.
It's not hard as I'm sure you are aware.
BIG_DADDY
05-09-2005, 05:45 PM
Much of the voter registration happens in Door-to-door campaigns, where carrying around a photocopier is hard enough..
Yea those digital cameras these days are a real bitch to carry around. I just wish the Demorats would get their act together the right way for once I'm sick and tired of the Republicans running rampant.
BIG_DADDY
05-09-2005, 05:46 PM
Wow, I found a link to your email?
Creepy.
I get those type of emails all the time, and there is a correponding article on the website. If you are going to take the effort to click over here a few times and post your email... you can easily do what I did, and click one more time to get the link.
It's not hard as I'm sure you are aware.
It came from a friend, can I get you a xanax?
ENDelt260
05-09-2005, 05:49 PM
Will that hurt Democrats directly? Not really, other than to keep down overall registration... which historically benefits Republicans.
Which still suggest something not very complimentary about the type of person registering as a Democrat.
I don't think I've ever had someone come to my door as part of a door to door voter registration drive. Wait... that might not be true. Someone may have come to the fraternity house when I was in college. Or... maybe that was a census taker.
I remember when I got my AZ driver license there was a little checkbox on the form that you could check if you wanted to register to vote. This checkbox is apparently worthless. I checked it, nothing happened as a result. I think I eventually went to some AZ state website and requested a form, which they mailed to me, I filled out and mailed in.
There's no real point to this post, I guess. I just started rambling.
Why is it going to hurt the demorats more? WHy are they against it? BECAUSE ILLEGALS WANT THEIR FREE HAND OUTS AND WILL VOTE FOR DEMORATS. YOu know it too, I am amazed that your actually upset about this. I think all states should impliment it. It will get rid of the free handouts at the very least.
I'm upset about RWNJ websites conning people like you into thinking that they are "news" and then deliberately distorting actual news articles into pro-Republican propaganda.
I'm not "upset" about the spriit of the law in general, but it certainly does impact Dems more than Reps indirectly, even though it's not catching any illegal imigrants trying to register to vote.
It's the whole "vote supression" thing. In this case, I don't think it's a political move by the Republicans to gain power in AZ. Maybe I'm nieve, but I think the people behind this law are (like yourself) honestly concerned about Mexican's voting in the US. IMO it just happens to ALSO help Republicans at the polls.
I also don't think that illegal Mexican voting is a major issue in AZ. I don't know any numbers (no one does since it's never been implemented until now), but Illegals are so paranoid about being deported, they sure as hell aren't going to start putting their personal contact information into GOV'T computer systems all for the privledge of not voting like the rest of Americans.
Which still suggest something not very complimentary about the type of person registering as a Democrat.
Not necessarily.
Dems tend to represent poorer, less educated people with less lesiure time to devote to life's optional activities like voting. Being less educated, they are also less likely to know how to work the system (ie, going to the post office to get voter registration forms).
ENDelt260
05-09-2005, 05:56 PM
Not necessarily.
Dems tend to represent poorer, less educated people with less lesiure time to devote to life's optional activities like voting. Being less educated, they are also less likely to know how to work the system (ie, going to the post office to get voter registration forms).
I don't think I'd consider that a complimentary characterization if it were applied to me.
I don't think I'd consider that a complimentary characterization if it were applied to me.
I wouldn't consider saying that you have facial hair a "complimentary characterization" either. It's not positive or negative... it just is what it is.
ENDelt260
05-09-2005, 06:04 PM
In any event, I'd say you probably have a valid point regarding illegals being reluctant to register. It doesn't really seem to make a lot of sense if you think about it.
I wonder how much extra hassle and money the botched implementation has cost the state.. I don't have anything against the concept of requiring proof of citizenship for voter registration, but it sure is a shame they weren't able to do it right.
BIG_DADDY
05-09-2005, 06:24 PM
Not necessarily.
Dems tend to represent poorer, less educated people with less lesiure time to devote to life's optional activities like voting. Being less educated, they are also less likely to know how to work the system (ie, going to the post office to get voter registration forms).
So you prefer having as many stupid people voting as possible?
I would like to know how many illegals are trying to vote.
vailpass
05-09-2005, 06:25 PM
Let's take a poll among all of the illegals and see what they think about this issue. I'll volunteer to canvass the Home Depot parking lots, which should cover about 95% of the illegal male population in Phoenix.
So you prefer having as many stupid people voting as possible?
Call me old fashioned, but I'd rather stick to Democracy.
I would like to know how many illegals are trying to vote.
On that we agree.
You seemed to suggest it was a "big problem" in CA. I would think that for you to have that opinion, you would need to know those numbers, at least approximately.
BIG_DADDY
05-09-2005, 06:39 PM
Call me old fashioned, but I'd rather stick to Democracy..
Not everybody is smart enough to vote jaz, it's just something you gotta face. The answer to the problem of the right having too much power isn't buying votes. The Demorats should try making some real changes for once. You heard all about it after the last election but haven't seen shit since. Same ol Dems.
You seemed to suggest it was a "big problem" in CA. I would think that for you to have that opinion, you would need to know those numbers, at least approximately.
I don't think anyone knows that number, you just hear it's a problem out here where whitey is the minority and Mexican's are the majority. Is it all BS? I have no idea as I have never seen any hard numbers and good luck trying to find out the truth where the vast majority Dems fight tooth and nail to cover it up.
redbrian
05-09-2005, 06:48 PM
Not necessarily.
Dems tend to represent poorer, less educated people with less lesiure time to devote to life's optional activities like voting. Being less educated, they are also less likely to know how to work the system (ie, going to the post office to get voter registration forms).
Here in a nut shell is the problem with the Democratic Party, notice the condescending attitude in Jaz’s remarks.
Your poor and stupid, you don’t have the sense to come in out of the rain so we will take care of you.
Baby Lee
05-09-2005, 06:53 PM
Not necessarily.
Dems tend to represent poorer, less educated people with less lesiure time to devote to life's optional activities like voting. Being less educated, they are also less likely to know how to work the system (ie, going to the post office to get voter registration forms).
Funny how that sophistication about working the system rises up when entitlements are at stake.
Here in a nut shell is the problem with the Democratic Party, notice the condescending attitude in Jaz’s remarks.
Your poor and stupid, you don’t have the sense to come in out of the rain so we will take care of you.
That's your "condesending attitude" not mine.
It's the same mistake stevieray made earlier today saying that my comparing one of his posts to that of TK is "insulting" to him. I didn't insult him, that was his judgement, not mine.
Funny how that sophistication about working the system rises up when entitlements are at stake.
Not surpising, given the immediate impact social services can have vs. voting.
BIG_DADDY
05-09-2005, 07:12 PM
Funny how that sophistication about working the system rises up when entitlements are at stake.
jaz doesn't have a problem with the Dems buying votes with our tax dollars.
Baby Lee
05-09-2005, 07:16 PM
That's your "condesending attitude" not mine.
It's the same mistake stevieray made earlier today saying that my comparing one of his posts to that of TK is "insulting" to him. I didn't insult him, that was his judgement, not mine.
That kind of smacks of the "Hey! I'm just stating an empirical fact. Some African Americans like watermelon and strawberry soda. Not my fault if you take offense."
Logical
05-09-2005, 07:17 PM
Haha... that's great, you have to provide documentation of your citzenship, but the form doesn't tell you to. Classic.
That aside, assuming they get the form stuff straightened out, I don't understand what the bitch is. How f*cking hard is it to send a photocopy of your driver license in w/ the voter registration form? Why would this prevent democrat registrations? Is the implication that democrats are too stupid to complete this task, but other voters will manage just fine?
If someone can't figure out how to photocopy their driver license, do we really want that person voting?
I cannot say about Arizona but unfortunately the illegals can get drivers licenses in California that make no distinction and provide no proof of US citizenship. This is why they are changing the rules at the Border crossing to require a Passport.
ENDelt260
05-09-2005, 07:17 PM
That kind of smacks of the "Hey! I'm just stating an empirical fact. Some African Americans like watermelon and strawberry soda. Not my fault if you take offense."
"And all this time I just thought I liked chicken cause it was delicious..."
ENDelt260
05-09-2005, 07:18 PM
I cannot say about Arizona but unfortunately the illegals can get drivers licenses in California that make no distinction and provide no proof of US citizenship.
You're kidding me.
Logical
05-09-2005, 07:20 PM
Not necessarily.
Dems tend to represent poorer, less educated people with less lesiure time to devote to life's optional activities like voting. Being less educated, they are also less likely to know how to work the system (ie, going to the post office to get voter registration forms).
Wow, do you know how bad this generalization sounds? I think you would be pissed off if Ringleader had wrote it.
BIG_DADDY
05-09-2005, 07:22 PM
You're kidding me.
Honkies are the minority out here.
vailpass
05-09-2005, 07:22 PM
You're kidding me.
Don't be surprised Delt; AZ is the same way. Illegals can drive, get medical care, social services, etc. all without proof of citizenship.
Under the current system local and state government workers are not required to verify citizenship.
This is what the proposition was introduced, and ratified by open vote, to address.
Now of course you see the vocal minority fighting the proposition tooth and nail even though the majority of the voters have already spoken.
I'd like to see la migra ask for greencards from each and every person that protests in the street against the measure.
jaz doesn't have a problem with the Dems buying votes with our tax dollars.
In fact I do. Waste is bad, even when it's a Dem doing it. And it does, has and will happen. I want it fixed, but I'm not sure how.
Seperately, I don't think eliminating Social Services or Social Security is good for our society, economy or people.
Being more careful about how to spend that money? Sure. Scrapping the programs as many want? No.
Logical
05-09-2005, 07:23 PM
You're kidding me.Nope they actually tried to have the licenses say "ILLEGAL" on it but that was thrown out by the courts. Hard to believe isn't it. Course it was hard to believe any person would actually show up at the DMV and say hi I am an illegal alien please let me get a license. It was a stupid idea, to try and avoid making all people produce US birth certificates to obtain a drivers license, that would be biased.:rolleyes:
Don't be surprised Delt; AZ is the same way. Illegals can drive, get medical care, social services, etc. all without proof of citizenship.
Under the current system local and state government workers are not required to verify citizenship.
This is what the proposition was introduced, and ratified by open vote, to address.
Now of course you see the vocal minority fighting the proposition tooth and nail even though the majority of the voters have already spoken.
I'd like to see la migra ask for greencards from each and every person that protests in the street against the measure.
Actually the "tooth and nail" fighting that you saw was not really so much over the principle of the prop, but the letter of it.
It was a bad law written without a source of funding, which is likely the reason there are no new voting cards throughout the state.
But who cares about details anyway.
ENDelt260
05-09-2005, 07:26 PM
Nope they actually tried to have the licenses say "ILLEGAL" on it but that was thrown out by the courts.
Haha... because just not giving them a license at all would be silly.
vailpass
05-09-2005, 07:26 PM
Actually the "tooth and nail" fighting that you saw was not really so much over the principle of the prop, but the letter of it.
It was a bad law written without a source of funding, which is likely the reason there are no new voting cards throughout the state.
But who cares about details anyway.
You mean details such as enacting a law that was passed by a majority vote?
Got ya'.
Nope they actually tried to have the licenses say "ILLEGAL" on it but that was thrown out by the courts. Hard to believe isn't it. Course it was hard to believe any person would actually show up at the DMV and say hi I am an illegal alien please let me get a license. It was a stupid idea, to try and avoid making all people produce US birth certificates to obtain a drivers license, that would be biased.:rolleyes:
It's a stupid idea having it say "illegal", when instead you could have it read "citizen" and not have the same legal problems.
You mean details such as enacting a law that was passed by a majority vote?
Got ya'.
Yeah, details like trying to figure out how to "enact" a law that compels gov't action without funding that action.
Exactly details like that.
Logical
05-09-2005, 07:31 PM
Haha... because just not giving them a license at all would be silly.
What can I say, I will not ever argue that California is not screwed up. You live here for the weather and all the activities. Also for the great appreciation in property, that is huge moneymaker.
vailpass
05-09-2005, 07:31 PM
It's a stupid idea having it say "illegal", when instead you could have it read "citizen" and not have the same legal problems.
OMG. OMFG.
Logical
05-09-2005, 07:33 PM
It's a stupid idea having it say "illegal", when instead you could have it read "citizen" and not have the same legal problems.
You of course are correct, but I doubt that would meet the scrutiny of our courts either. They seriously feel it is wrong to discriminate against illegal aliens. What can I say it makes no sense at all. Do they not get the meaning of the word "illegal"?
You of course are correct, but I doubt that would meet the scrutiny of our courts either. They seriously feel it is wrong to discriminate against illegal aliens. What can I say it makes no sense at all. Do they not get the meaning of the word "illegal"?
At least with my proposal, you aren't discriminating against illegals at all. You aren't singling them out at all. Instead, you are identifying people who are citizens and leaving all others unidentified.
Legal immigrants and illegal immigrants are not distinguished from each other, and citizenship can be identified.
I'm still for a national ID card which would accomplish the same thing. I'd use the existing state IDs, but add specific federal requirements to those IDs.
Logical
05-09-2005, 09:07 PM
...
I'm still for a national ID card which would accomplish the same thing. I'd use the existing state IDs, but add specific federal requirements to those IDs.
I have nothing against that at all, but the Religious folks both left and right would scream that it was the mark of the debil being thrust upon dem. :shake:
jettio
05-09-2005, 09:25 PM
We can only hope that Arizona never disenfranchises folks that can't breathe real air, pollen and all.
None food-growing water stealing powderpuffs. :cuss:
redbrian
05-09-2005, 09:43 PM
That's your "condesending attitude" not mine.
It's the same mistake stevieray made earlier today saying that my comparing one of his posts to that of TK is "insulting" to him. I didn't insult him, that was his judgement, not mine.
Nice spin, but your the one saying they are too stupid to "work the system" which is based on an 8th grade education at best.
Yes sir keep them dumb and on the plantation the Dem's plan.
stevieray
05-09-2005, 10:11 PM
Nice spin, but your the one saying they are too stupid to "work the system" which is based on an 8th grade education at best.
Yes sir keep them dumb and on the plantation the Dem's plan.
exactly, that's why you hear "for english press one...."
Logical
05-09-2005, 10:34 PM
exactly, that's why you hear "for english press one...."
Do you commonly hear that in the midwest? I really hear it all the time out here, but assumed it was only because of our incredibly large hispanic population.
KCWolfman
05-09-2005, 10:38 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this "screening out illegal voters" translate into "screening out people who haven't shown ID yet"?
What says any of those 423 were from non-citizens who aren't otherwise qualified to vote?
Maybe I'm missing something.
You didn't provide a link, care to source this?
Illegal voter does not equal illegal immigrant.
More importantly, I want to know why the last statement is made without some sort of laugh track? How in the hell does this stop Democrat voters from voting? Do Democrats not have legal IDs?
KCWolfman
05-09-2005, 10:41 PM
Do you commonly hear that in the midwest? I really hear it all the time out here, but assumed it was only because of our incredibly large hispanic population.
It is everywhere.
As long as Dems can garner votes and Reps can garner cheap help, it ain't gonna change.
I have nothing against that at all, but the Religious folks both left and right would scream that it was the mark of the debil being thrust upon dem. :shake:
The same ones swiping their Visa Debit Card at the local liquor store no doubt.
Nice spin, but your the one saying they are too stupid to "work the system" which is based on an 8th grade education at best.
Yes sir keep them dumb and on the plantation the Dem's plan.
Stupid: "Lacking in intelligence" (http://www.answers.com/stupid&r=67)
Uneducated: "not having a good education" (http://www.answers.com/uneducated&r=67)
Which are you? 'Cause the word you use ("stupid") and the one I used ("less educated") mean totally different things as you can plainly see when it's spelled out for you with links.
Illegal voter does not equal illegal immigrant.
More importantly, I want to know why the last statement is made without some sort of laugh track? How in the hell does this stop Democrat voters from voting? Do Democrats not have legal IDs?
You need to read the rest of this thread... I'm not typing it twice.
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