Oops. False Newsweek reporting leads to 16 dead in Afghanistan

[mlyonsd]

:shake: Nice of Newsweek to apologize to the families of those killed.

Rueters report (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050515/ts_nm/religion_afghan_newsweek_dc_2)

Newsweek says may have erred in Koran report 1 hour, 12 minutes ago



Newsweek magazine on Sunday said it may have erred in a May 9 report that said U.S. interrogators desecrated the Koran at Guantanamo Bay, and apologized to victims of deadly violence sparked by the article.

The weekly news magazine said in its May 23 edition that the original source of the allegation was not sure where he saw the assertion that at least one copy of the Koran was flushed down a toilet in an attempt to get detainees to talk.

"We regret that we got any part of our story wrong, and extend our sympathies to victims of the violence and to the U.S. soldiers caught in its midst," Editor Mark Whitaker wrote in the magazine's latest issue, due to appear on U.S. newsstands on Monday.

The report has sparked angry and violent protests across the Muslim world from Afghanistan, where 16 were killed and more than 100 injured, to Pakistan to Indonesia to Gaza.

On Sunday, Afghan Muslim clerics threatened to call for a holy war against the United States in three days unless it handed over the interrogators in question.

The May 9 report quoted unnamed sources as saying that military investigators probing abuse at the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, found that interrogators had placed copies of the Koran on toilets and "in at least one case, flushed a holy book down the toilet."

Newsweek said a Pentagon spokesman told the magazine late last week that the story was wrong and that the military has found no credible evidence to support separate allegations of Koran desecration made by released detainees.

The U.S. military opened an investigation into the charges while top U.S. officials urged Muslims to resist calls for violence, stating disrespect for the holy book would not be tolerated.

[mlyonsd]

Nice job Newsweek, now you have the Muslim clerics calling for a holy war.

Somebody's head should roll over this one.

[Rain Man]

Maybe they should flush a Koran down the toilet now, just to make everything right.

[the Talking Can]

Imagine how many would die if we started a war over false WMD claims.

Burn Newsweek!

[memyselfI]

Imagine how many would die if we started a war over false WMD claims.

Burn Newsweek!

Oh please, NO ONE would be so callous, ignorant, stoooopid, or ruthless enough to do that. :harumph:

[BigOlChiefsfan]

http://instapundit.com/archives/023000.php

Two points: (1) If they had wrongly reported the race of a criminal and produced a lynching, they'd feel much worse -- which is why they generally don't report such things, a degree of sensitivity they don't extend to reporting on, you know, minor topics like wars; and (2) If a blogger had made a similar mistake, with similar consequences, we'd be hearing about Big Media's superior fact-checking and layers of editors.

People died, and U.S. military and diplomatic efforts were damaged, because -- let's be clear here -- Newsweek was too anxious to get out a story that would make the Bush Administration and the military look bad.

[BCD]

Imagine how many would die if we started a war over false WMD claims.

Burn Newsweek!My God, you cannot be THAT ****ing stupid!
:shake: :rolleyes:

[mlyonsd]

Imagine how many would die if we started a war over false WMD claims.

Burn Newsweek!

Wow, you must have been one helluva left fielder.

[Bootlegged]

I'm shocked.

[Michael Michigan]

Newsweak lied. People died.

[Metrolike]

I'm not sure Newseek lied, they just didn't realize how much shit that little article would get them into. The military is now all pissed off and Newsweek has to call it a mistake, even though, for all we know, it might have happened.

[mlyonsd]

I'm not sure Newseek lied, they just didn't realize how much shit that little article would get them into.

Maybe if the editor's family was killed in their next report not backed up with facts they might come to understand eay?

This isn't a game.

[Logical]

My God, you cannot be THAT ****ing stupid!
:shake: :rolleyes:

Don't ****ing challenge him. He has not even begun to lay stupid on us.

[Cochise]

Newsweak lied. People died.

ROFL

[Pitt Gorilla]

It's as if the article told them to "Bring it on!"

[the Talking Can]

Can we impeach Newseek?

They should know that only the president can lie in matters of life and death.

[KCWolfman]

I see the liberals are in full Clintonian Theory mode on this issue.

"So what, they didn't do it first!"

[Bootlegged]

Can we impeach Newseek?

They should know that only the president can lie in matters of life and death.


Wow, you're in full jIZ Bush obsession mode, aren't ya?

[manny]

http://www.antiwar.com/news/?articleid=5959

The original article includes hyperlinks to all citations.


Contrary to White House spin, the allegations of religious desecration at Guantanamo published by Newsweek on May 9, 2005, are common among ex-prisoners and have been widely reported outside the United States. Several former detainees at the Guantanamo and Bagram prisons have reported instances of their handlers sitting or standing on the Koran, throwing or kicking it in toilets, and urinating on it. Prior to the Newsweek article, the New York Times reported a Guantanamo insider asserting that the commander of the facility was compelled by prisoner protests to address the problem and issue an apology.

One such incident (during which the Koran was allegedly thrown in a pile and stepped on) prompted a hunger strike among Guantanamo detainees in March 2002. Regarding this, the New York Times in a May 1, 2005, article interviewed a former detainee, Nasser Nijer Naser al-Mutairi, who said the protest ended with a senior officer delivering an apology to the entire camp. And the Times reports: "A former interrogator at Guantanamo, in an interview with the Times, confirmed the accounts of the hunger strikes, including the public expression of regret over the treatment of the Korans." (Neil A. Lewis and Eric Schmitt, "Inquiry Finds Abuses at Guantanamo Bay," New York Times, May 1, 2005.)

The hunger strike and apology story is also confirmed by another former detainee, Shafiq Rasul, interviewed by the UK Guardian in 2003 (James Meek, "The People the Law Forgot," Dec. 3, 2003). It was also confirmed by former prisoner Jamal al-Harith in an interview with the Daily Mirror (Rosa Prince and Gary Jones, "My Hell in Camp X-Ray," Daily Mirror, March 12, 2004).

The toilet incident was reported in the Washington Post in a 2003 interview with a former detainee from Afghanistan:

"Ehsannullah, 29, said American soldiers who initially questioned him in Kandahar before shipping him to Guantanamo hit him and taunted him by dumping the Koran in a toilet. 'It was a very bad situation for us,' said Ehsannullah, who comes from the home region of the Taliban leader, Mohammad Omar. 'We cried so much and shouted, "Please do not do that to the Holy Koran."' (Marc Kaufman and April Witt, "Out of Legal Limbo, Some Tell of Mistreatment," Washington Post, March 26, 2003.)

Also citing the toilet incident is testimony by Asif Iqbal, a former Guantanamo detainee who was released to British custody in March 2004 and subsequently freed without charge:

"The behavior of the guards towards our religious practices as well as the Koran was also, in my view, designed to cause us as much distress as possible. They would kick the Koran, throw it into the toilet, and generally disrespect it." (Center for Constitutional Rights [.pdf], Aug. 4, 2004.)

The claim that U.S. troops at Bagram prison in Afghanistan urinated on the Koran was made by former detainee Mohamed Mazouz, a Moroccan, as reported in the Moroccan newspaper, La Gazette du Maroc. (Abdelhak Najib, "Les Américains pissaient sur le Coran et abusaient de nous sexuellement," April 12, 2005.) An English translation is available on the Cage Prisoners site (which describes itself as a "nonsectarian Islamic human rights Web site").

Tarek Derghoul, another of the British detainees, similarly cites instances of Koran desecration in an interview with Cage Prisoners.

Desecration of the Koran was also mentioned by former Guantanamo detainee Abdul Rahim Muslim Dost and reported by the BBC in early May 2005. (Haroon Rashid, "Ex-Inmates Share Guantanamo Ordeal," May 2, 2005.)

[mlyonsd]

http://www.antiwar.com/news/?articleid=5959

The original article includes hyperlinks to all citations.


Contrary to White House spin, the allegations of religious desecration at Guantanamo published by Newsweek on May 9, 2005, are common among ex-prisoners and have been widely reported outside the United States. Several former detainees at the Guantanamo and Bagram prisons have reported instances of their handlers sitting or standing on the Koran, throwing or kicking it in toilets, and urinating on it. Prior to the Newsweek article, the New York Times reported a Guantanamo insider asserting that the commander of the facility was compelled by prisoner protests to address the problem and issue an apology.

One such incident (during which the Koran was allegedly thrown in a pile and stepped on) prompted a hunger strike among Guantanamo detainees in March 2002. Regarding this, the New York Times in a May 1, 2005, article interviewed a former detainee, Nasser Nijer Naser al-Mutairi, who said the protest ended with a senior officer delivering an apology to the entire camp. And the Times reports: "A former interrogator at Guantanamo, in an interview with the Times, confirmed the accounts of the hunger strikes, including the public expression of regret over the treatment of the Korans." (Neil A. Lewis and Eric Schmitt, "Inquiry Finds Abuses at Guantanamo Bay," New York Times, May 1, 2005.)

The hunger strike and apology story is also confirmed by another former detainee, Shafiq Rasul, interviewed by the UK Guardian in 2003 (James Meek, "The People the Law Forgot," Dec. 3, 2003). It was also confirmed by former prisoner Jamal al-Harith in an interview with the Daily Mirror (Rosa Prince and Gary Jones, "My Hell in Camp X-Ray," Daily Mirror, March 12, 2004).

The toilet incident was reported in the Washington Post in a 2003 interview with a former detainee from Afghanistan:

"Ehsannullah, 29, said American soldiers who initially questioned him in Kandahar before shipping him to Guantanamo hit him and taunted him by dumping the Koran in a toilet. 'It was a very bad situation for us,' said Ehsannullah, who comes from the home region of the Taliban leader, Mohammad Omar. 'We cried so much and shouted, "Please do not do that to the Holy Koran."' (Marc Kaufman and April Witt, "Out of Legal Limbo, Some Tell of Mistreatment," Washington Post, March 26, 2003.)

Also citing the toilet incident is testimony by Asif Iqbal, a former Guantanamo detainee who was released to British custody in March 2004 and subsequently freed without charge:

"The behavior of the guards towards our religious practices as well as the Koran was also, in my view, designed to cause us as much distress as possible. They would kick the Koran, throw it into the toilet, and generally disrespect it." (Center for Constitutional Rights [.pdf], Aug. 4, 2004.)

The claim that U.S. troops at Bagram prison in Afghanistan urinated on the Koran was made by former detainee Mohamed Mazouz, a Moroccan, as reported in the Moroccan newspaper, La Gazette du Maroc. (Abdelhak Najib, "Les Américains pissaient sur le Coran et abusaient de nous sexuellement," April 12, 2005.) An English translation is available on the Cage Prisoners site (which describes itself as a "nonsectarian Islamic human rights Web site").

Tarek Derghoul, another of the British detainees, similarly cites instances of Koran desecration in an interview with Cage Prisoners.

Desecration of the Koran was also mentioned by former Guantanamo detainee Abdul Rahim Muslim Dost and reported by the BBC in early May 2005. (Haroon Rashid, "Ex-Inmates Share Guantanamo Ordeal," May 2, 2005.)

It very well may have happened. But reporting it as fact without substantiating evidence is very poor journalism. Wouldn't you agree?

[Mr. Kotter]

It very well may have happened. But reporting it as fact without substantiating evidence is very poor journalism. Wouldn't you agree?

Who needs facts and evidence; this is the mainstream press we are talking about. :shake:

[petegz28]

Can we impeach Newseek?

They should know that only the president can lie in matters of life and death.


Or when he is caught banging interns in the Oval Office.

[Donger]

Can we impeach Newseek?

They should know that only the president can lie in matters of life and death.

What exactly did Bush lie about?

[petegz28]

What exactly did Bush lie about?
He lied about something he never said! :p


He never said Iraq was linked to 9/11 but every card carrying Liberal will tell you different.

He said Sadaam was to prove he had no WMD's or Disarm. He said this along with the rest of the freaking Useless Nations. But every card carrying Liberal chooses to ignore that France and Germany were on the take with Sadaam.


So basically he had to "lie" so the liberals could have an argument against him and support the corrupt French.


Don't worry about any facts though they jsut get in the liberal way of thinking.

[CHIEF4EVER]

He lied about something he never said! :p


He never said Iraq was linked to 9/11 but every card carrying Liberal will tell you different.

He said Sadaam was to prove he had no WMD's or Disarm. He said this along with the rest of the freaking Useless Nations. But every card carrying Liberal chooses to ignore that France and Germany were on the take with Sadaam.


So basically he had to "lie" so the liberals could have an argument against him and support the corrupt French.


Don't worry about any facts though they jsut get in the liberal way of thinking.

Excellent post. :thumb:

[Radar Chief]

Imagine how many would die if we started a war over false WMD claims.

Burn Newsweek!

Oh please, NO ONE would be so callous, ignorant, stoooopid, or ruthless enough to do that. :harumph:

It's as if the article told them to "Bring it on!"

Can we impeach Newseek?

They should know that only the president can lie in matters of life and death.

Wow, DU must be work’n overtime to get orders out to their sheeple. This news wasn’t even a day old before all the good lil’ DU soldjah’s started stumbling all over themselves try’n to deflect.
Impressive mobilization. :clap:

[Donger]

He lied about something he never said! :p


He never said Iraq was linked to 9/11 but every card carrying Liberal will tell you different.

He said Sadaam was to prove he had no WMD's or Disarm. He said this along with the rest of the freaking Useless Nations. But every card carrying Liberal chooses to ignore that France and Germany were on the take with Sadaam.


So basically he had to "lie" so the liberals could have an argument against him and support the corrupt French.


Don't worry about any facts though they jsut get in the liberal way of thinking.

Well, I'm sure that TC will be along shortly with his answer. I'm sure he has one considering his tagline and avatar.

[Bob Dole]

So Steve Glass is now working for Newsweek?

[Boyceofsummer]

thousands & thousands have died.

Now go wrap your egos in the flag. Pitiful.

[Donger]

thousands & thousands have died.

Now go wrap your egos in the flag. Pitiful.

"America" lied? Please elaborate.

[memyselfI]

Who needs facts and evidence; this is the mainstream press we are talking about. :shake:


In truth, the 'apology' is for US consumption only. Few in the 'Arab world' will believe the story was a mistake and will figure the US government or military pressured Newsweek to back off it's story. A REAL fact is considering what went on at A.G. prison and in Gitmo then it's entirely believeable to the Muslim world that this could have happened and any retraction now just serves to fuel further suspicion of cover ups of US abuses. Too bad the US got themselves into this predicament. :hmmm:

As far as those squawking about facts and evidence...

seems funny to hear this rallying cry when the US goverment HAS provided FALSE evidence and misleading facts to the world regarding the WMD and the case for war. Newsweek likely screwed up and possibly lied...

but using the same standard being applied to Newsweek, of presenting false information as being a lie, then so too did DUHbya. You cannot have it both ways.

[Radar Chief]

thousands & thousands have died.

Now go wrap your egos in the flag. Pitiful.

Better yet, lets ignore facts and rational thought processes in favor of blind rhetoric. WooWoo

[Radar Chief]

In truth, the 'apology' is for US consumption only. Few in the 'Arab world' will believe the story was a mistake and will figure the US govermnment or military pressured Newsweek to back off it's story.

That I agree with.

As far as those squawking about facts and evidence...

seems funny to hear this rallying cry when the US goverment HAS provided FALSE evidence and misleading facts to the world regarding the WMD and the case for war. Newsweek likely screwed up and possibly lied...

but using the same standard being applied to Newsweek, of presenting false information as being a lie, then so too did DUHbya. You cannot have it both ways.

:LOL: Yea, never let “facts and evidence” get in the way of blind rhetoric. :thumb:

[mlyonsd]

In truth, the 'apology' is for US consumption only. Few in the 'Arab world' will believe the story was a mistake and will figure the US govermnment or military pressured Newsweek to back off it's story.

As far as those squawking about facts and evidence...

seems funny to hear this rallying cry when the US goverment HAS provided FALSE evidence and misleading facts to the world regarding the WMD and the case for war. Newsweek likely screwed up and possibly lied...

but using the same standard being applied to Newsweek, of presenting false information as being a lie, then so too did DUHbya. You cannot have it both ways.

Complete apples and oranges.

[Pitt Gorilla]

It very well may have happened. But reporting it as fact without substantiating evidence is very poor journalism. Wouldn't you agree?
I agree 100%. Sadly, it happens all the time. It reminds me of that story from a year or two ago about the three guys in a car that ran a toll booth. The story appeared on foxnews.com and was later pulled without a retraction. I guess the evidence was a bit sketchy.

[petegz28]

"America" lied? Please elaborate.


yes we lied. We lied to ourselves throughout the last decade that these towel-heads didn't really weant to hurt us all in the name of being PC. Now becasue we are actually going and kicking the crap out of these people the sissy-left wants to pretend we are the bad guy.

All I have to say is go live in Canada or France or wherever else you want. It's a free country and you are free to leave at any time.

[memyselfI]

Complete apples and oranges.

You are right, one is a country trying to declare war with the approval of the world and bears responsibility for such.

The other is a media organization responsible to it's readership for facts.

[petegz28]

In truth, the 'apology' is for US consumption only. Few in the 'Arab world' will believe the story was a mistake and will figure the US government or military pressured Newsweek to back off it's story. A REAL fact is considering what went on at A.G. prison and in Gitmo then it's entirely believeable to the Muslim world that this could have happened and any retraction now just serves to fuel further suspicion of cover ups of US abuses. Too bad the US got themselves into this predicament. :hmmm:

As far as those squawking about facts and evidence...

seems funny to hear this rallying cry when the US goverment HAS provided FALSE evidence and misleading facts to the world regarding the WMD and the case for war. Newsweek likely screwed up and possibly lied...

but using the same standard being applied to Newsweek, of presenting false information as being a lie, then so too did DUHbya. You cannot have it both ways.

Funny the entire world was in agreement about said "false evididence" besides the continued posturing of Sadaam. But since we are the only country who had the balls to call his bluff let's just pretend we started all this. I swear people need to revise\ignore history to such a point to be at odds with Bush ont his war that it makes you look like a 2nd grade reject.

[beavis]

"America" lied? Please elaborate.
Good luck. TC, Duhnise and the like are only here to spout their witty little one liners. I'll give you a dollar if you can get any of them produce a fact.

[RaiderH8r]

This Newsweek situation will only serve to further distance the press and the Pentagon....as if they weren't far enough apart. A true sense of enmity and "gotcha" reporting has given way to the ethos of journalistic credibility. The Pentagon will now impose a tighter lid on all personnel and the media will bitch even louder that they're not being told enough. The ramifications of this whole affair will not be fully understood for awhile.

Is Dan Rather working for Newsweek now? Supplimental income and such? Hmmm

[BigOlChiefsfan]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=aSz0b2unbOik&refer=us

Now officially retracted, as opposed to the earlier halfassed defense.

[jspchief]

The sad thing is, this has set the US back a ton in middle east relations. Muslim hatred for America has to be at an all time high, or as high as it's been in some time.

One stupid ass mistake has undone what we've accomplished, and will likely cost us more American lives.

I wish I could believe it would instill some sense of responsibility in American journalists, but the reality is the next mistake is probably already being made in the name of a "headline" or "scoop".

[BIG_DADDY]

The sad thing is, this has set the US back a ton in middle east relations. Muslim hatred for America has to be at an all time high, or as high as it's been in some time.

One stupid ass mistake has undone what we've accomplished, and will likely cost us more American lives.

I wish I could believe it would instill some sense of responsibility in American journalists, but the reality is the next mistake is probably already being made in the name of a "headline" or "scoop".

Assuming it is an error and not a left wing tactic disigned to undermine our efforts. That's a huge assumption,

[jspchief]

Assuming it is an error and not a left wing tactic disigned to undermine our efforts. That's a huge assumption,I'm naive enough to believe (hope) it was a story written on what was believed to be facts, and if any partisan bias was involved, it was in Newsweeks careless rush to publish it, rather than an outright fabrication.

They got their information from a "government official" supposedly, who has since come out to say he "thought" he read it, but was mistaken. I'd like to know who the f*ck that government person is, and what party he's aligned with. That's where I could see an actual fabrication coming from. Regardless, he should be named, so we all know which douche bag is ultimately responsible for setting us back so far in the middle east.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Assuming it is an error and not a left wing tactic disigned to undermine our efforts. That's a huge assumption,The other direction would seem to be a larger assumption for those who don't subscribe to conspiracy theories.

[Mr. Kotter]

The other direction would seem to be a larger assumption for those who don't subscribe to conspiracy theories.

Given the political climate in this country, and the Bush-haters, I think they are equally likely.

FTR, I had the same opinion of Clinton-haters back in the late 90s... :shrug:

[Joe Seahawk]

How do you flush a fuc%ing book down a toilet anyway.. :shake: Sheesh

[the Talking Can]

when will you guys quit with the fake outrage and deal with the real outrage of Bush's lies killing thousands?

we are so far beyond irony that we we'll need top create a new word to describe you guys...maybe, supercalafragalisticirony?

ewww....information (http://corrente.blogspot.com/2005/05/flushing-newsweek.html)


August 5, 2004

The Independent (London)

In the report, released in New York, Asif Iqbal, Rhuhel Ahmed and Shafiq Rasul - the so-called Tipton Three - said one inmate was threatened after being shown a video in which hooded inmates were forced to sodomise each other. Guards allegedly threw prisoners' Korans into toilets, while others were injected with drugs, it was claimed.



August 5, 2004

Daily News (New York) | Byline: By James Gordon Meek and Derek Rose.

They say that rats and scorpions had free run of their sweltering cages, loud rock music was used to drown out the sound of prayers, and sleep deprivation was common.

"They would kick the Koran, throw it into the toilet and generally disrespect it," Asif Iqbal wrote.

[...]

Pentagon spokesman Michael Shavers said the military "operates a professional detention facility at Guantanamo" and does not condone abuse of detainees.



January 9, 2005

Sunday | FINAL EDITION | HEADLINE: Nightmare of Guantanamo.... U.S. prison camp in Cuba has become legal black hole, reporter says BYLINE: John Freeman Special to The Denver Post

"They pepper sprayed me in the face, and I started vomiting; in all I must have brought up five cupfuls. They pinned me down and attacked me, poking their fingers in my eyes, and forced my head into the toilet pan and flushed. They tied me up like a beast and then they were kneeling on me, kicking and punching. Finally they dragged me out of my cell in chains ... and shaved my beard, my hair, my eyebrows."

[...]

And earlier this year, that process finally began. In March, the government released five British men from Guantanamo after nearly three years. They had been captured in Afghanistan, where they had gone to offer humanitarian aid. Rose interviewed them that same month, two months before the allegations of Abu Ghraib first surfaced, and yet they described a period of captivity eerily similar to that of the Iraqis in Abu Ghraib.

In August Mr Ahmed, Mr Rasul and Mr Iqbal issued a 115-page dossier accusing the US of abuse, including allegations that they were beaten and had their Korans thrown into toilets.*



(*Also published in The Hartford Courant (Connecticut), January 16, 2005.)



January 9, 2003

The New York Times | Late Edition - Final | SECTION: Section A; Column 2; Foreign Desk; Pg. 14 | THREATS AND RESPONSES: TERROR; Hate of the West Finds Fertile Soil in Yemen. But Does Al Qaeda? By Ian Fisher | DATELINE: SANA, Yemen, Jan. 8

Investigators know the basic facts: In this poor and isolated nation with no lack of extremists, a young preacher named Ahmed Ali Jarallah assembled a small cell of militants to strike the enemies of Islam in Yemen. Two years ago, he read off a hate list in a speech at a mosque here, singling out specifically a hospital run by American Baptists.

"In Jibla, there is the Baptist hospital, which is the source of Christian activities in the province," Mr. Jarallah said. Muslims converted to Christianity at this hospital, he charged, and even "stuff the Holy Koran into toilets of mosques."

On Dec. 28, anger went into action: Mr. Jarallah himself assassinated a leading secular politician, Jarallah Omar, according to the police. Two days later, one of Mr. Jarallah's followers, Abed Abdel Razzak Kamel, is said to have killed three Americans in the hospital, which provided medical care in the southern town of Jibla for 35 years.



March 26, 2003

The Washington Post | Final Edition | SECTION: A SECTION; Pg. A12 HEADLINE: Returning Afghans Talk of Guantanamo; Out of Legal Limbo, Some Tell of Mistreatment | BYLINE: Marc Kaufman and April Witt, Washington Post Staff Writers

The men, the largest single group of Afghans to be released after months of detainment at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, gave varying accounts of how American forces treated them during interrogation and detainment. Some displayed medical records showing extensive care by American military doctors, while others complained that American soldiers insulted Islam by sitting on the Koran or dumping their sacred text into a toilet to taunt them.

[...]

Ehsannullah, 29, said American soldiers who initially questioned him in Kandahar before shipping him to Guantanamo hit him and taunted him by dumping the Koran in a toilet.



August 4, 2004

CNN.com | SECTION: LAW | HEADLINE: British men report abuse from Guantanamo BYLINE: By Jonathan Wald CNN
DATELINE: NEW YORK

U.S. soldiers "would kick the Koran, throw it into the toilet, and generally disrespect it," Iqbal said.



June 28, 2004

Financial Times Information | Global News Wire - Asia Africa Intelligence Wire | InfoProd | Reprinted with the permission of Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty

One of the men, Timur Ishmuratov of Tatarstan, told ORT on 24 June -- prior to the release -- that he had been captured by Northern Alliance forces shortly after the beginning of the U.S. military action in Afghanistan and "sold" to the Americans for $ 3,000-$ 5,000. Former prisoner Airat Vakhitov told ORT about alleged mistreatment while he was at Guantanamo. "They tore the Koran to pieces in front of us, threw it into the toilet," Vakhitov said. "When people were praying, they forced their way in and put their feet on people's heads and beat them."

[the Talking Can]

McClellansupercalafragilisticironist (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240/)

The resignation of Scott McClellan

SECAUCUS -- I smell something - and it ain’t a copy of the Qu’ran sopping wet from being stuck in a toilet in Guantanamo Bay. It’s the ink drying on Scott McClellan’s resignation, and in an only partly imperfect world, it would be drifting out over Washington, and imminently.

Last Thursday, General Richard Myers, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and Donald Rumsfeld’s go-to guy whenever the situation calls for the kind of gravitas the Secretary himself can’t supply, told reporters at the Pentagon that rioting in Afghanistan was related more to the on-going political reconciliation process there, than it was to a controversial note buried in the pages of Newsweek claiming that the government was investigating whether or not some nitwit interrogator at Gitmo really had desecrated a Muslim holy book.

But Monday afternoon, while offering himself up to the networks for a series of rare, almost unprecedented sit-down interviews on the White House lawn, Press Secretary McClellan said, in effect, that General Myers, and the head of the after-action report following the disturbances in Jalalabad, Lieutenant General Karl Eikenberry, were dead wrong. The Newsweek story, McClellan said, “has done damage to our image abroad and it has done damage to the credibility of the media and Newsweek in particular. People have lost lives. This report has had serious consequences.”

Whenever I hear Scott McClellan talking about ‘media credibility,’ I strain to remember who it was who admitted Jeff Gannon to the White House press room and called on him all those times.

Whenever I hear this White House talking about ‘doing to damage to our image abroad’ and how ‘people have lost lives,’ I strain to remember who it was who went traipsing into Iraq looking for WMD that will apparently turn up just after the Holy Grail will - and at what human cost.....


...The real point, of course, is that you’d have to be pretty dumb to think that making a threat at Gitmo akin to ‘Spill the beans or we’ll kill this Qu’ran’ would have any effect on the prisoners, other than to eventually leak out and inflame anti-American feelings somewhere. Of course, everybody in the prosecution of the so-called ‘war on terror’ has done something dumb, dating back to the President’s worst-possible-word-selection (“crusade”) on September 16, 2001. So why wouldn’t some mid-level interrogator stuck in Cuba think it would be a good idea to desecrate a holy book? Jack Rice, the former CIA special agent and now radio host, said on Countdown that it would be a “knuckleheaded” thing to do, but “plausible.”

One of the most under-publicized analyses of 9/11 concludes that Osama Bin Laden assumed that the attacks on the U.S. would galvanize Islamic anger towards this country, and they'd overthrow their secular governments and woo-hoo we've got an international religious war. Obviously it didn't happen. It didn't even happen when the West went into Iraq. But if stuff like the Newsweek version of a now two-year old tale about toilets and Qu’rans is enough to set off rioting in the streets of countries whose nationals were not even the supposed recipients of the ‘abuse’, then weren’t those members of the military or the government with whom Newsweek vetted the plausibility of its item, honor-bound to say “you can’t print this”?

Or would somebody rather play politics with this? The way Craig Crawford reconstructed it, this one went similarly to the way the Killian Memos story evolved at the White House. The news organization turns to the administration for a denial. The administration says nothing. The news organization runs the story. The administration jumps on the necks of the news organization with both feet - or has its proxies do it for them.

That’s beyond shameful. It’s treasonous.

It’s also not very smart. While places like the Fox News Channel (which, only today, I finally recognized - it’s the newscast perpetually running on the giant video screens in the movie “1984”) ask how many heads should roll at Newsweek, it forgets in its fervor that both the story and the phony controversy around it are not so cut-and-dried this time.

Firstly, the principal reporter on the Gitmo story was Michael Isikoff - “Spikey” in a different lifetime; Linda Tripp’s favorite journalist, and one of the ten people most responsible (intentionally or otherwise) for the impeachment of Bill Clinton. Spikey isn’t just a hero to the Right - the Right owes him.

And larger still, in terms of politics, this isn't well-defined, is it? I mean Conservatives might parrot McClellan and say ‘Newsweek put this country in a bad light.’ But they could just as easily thump their chests and say ‘See, this is what we do to those prisoners at Gitmo! You guys better watch your asses!’

Ultimately, though, the administration may have effected its biggest mistake over this saga, in making the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs look like a liar or naïf, just to draw a little blood out of Newsweek’s hide. Either way - and also for that tasteless, soul-less conclusion that deaths in Afghanistan should be lain at the magazine’s doorstep - Scott McClellan should resign. The expiration on his carton full of blank-eyed bully-collaborator act passed this afternoon as he sat reeling off those holier-than-thou remarks. Ah, that’s what I smelled.

[jspchief]

With all due respect to your stance on Bush and the war, that doesn't change that this was a damaging error.

Whatever error Bush has made to get us into this doesn't change the fact that this article just made it that much harder to get out of it.

The outrage over this shouldn't require a partisan bias. It should simply be outrage over the fact that a dumbass magazine printed a lie that will make peace in the middle east that much harder to achieve.

[mlyonsd]

This morning on Imus, Craig Crawford a CBS political analyst brought up the theory that the military had set up Newsweek on this particular story with the intention of embarrassing them. ROFL

Could Crawford be related to jAZ or meme?

[Donger]

Bush's lies killing thousands?

So, what lies?

[trndobrd]

So, what lies?


Donger, did you lie?

[Donger]

Donger, did you lie?

'Bout what?

[Radar Chief]

when will you guys quit with the fake outrage and deal with the real outrage of Bush's lies killing thousands?

we are so far beyond irony that we we'll need top create a new word to describe you guys...maybe, supercalafragalisticirony?


You do realize your having a fake outrage conniption over "fake outrage" right? :loser:

[petegz28]

when will you guys quit with the fake outrage and deal with the real outrage of Bush's lies killing thousands?

we are so far beyond irony that we we'll need top create a new word to describe you guys...maybe, supercalafragalisticirony?

ewww....information (http://corrente.blogspot.com/2005/05/flushing-newsweek.html)


August 5, 2004

The Independent (London)

In the report, released in New York, Asif Iqbal, Rhuhel Ahmed and Shafiq Rasul - the so-called Tipton Three - said one inmate was threatened after being shown a video in which hooded inmates were forced to sodomise each other. Guards allegedly threw prisoners' Korans into toilets, while others were injected with drugs, it was claimed.



August 5, 2004

Daily News (New York) | Byline: By James Gordon Meek and Derek Rose.

They say that rats and scorpions had free run of their sweltering cages, loud rock music was used to drown out the sound of prayers, and sleep deprivation was common.

"They would kick the Koran, throw it into the toilet and generally disrespect it," Asif Iqbal wrote.

[...]

Pentagon spokesman Michael Shavers said the military "operates a professional detention facility at Guantanamo" and does not condone abuse of detainees.



January 9, 2005

Sunday | FINAL EDITION | HEADLINE: Nightmare of Guantanamo.... U.S. prison camp in Cuba has become legal black hole, reporter says BYLINE: John Freeman Special to The Denver Post

"They pepper sprayed me in the face, and I started vomiting; in all I must have brought up five cupfuls. They pinned me down and attacked me, poking their fingers in my eyes, and forced my head into the toilet pan and flushed. They tied me up like a beast and then they were kneeling on me, kicking and punching. Finally they dragged me out of my cell in chains ... and shaved my beard, my hair, my eyebrows."

[...]

And earlier this year, that process finally began. In March, the government released five British men from Guantanamo after nearly three years. They had been captured in Afghanistan, where they had gone to offer humanitarian aid. Rose interviewed them that same month, two months before the allegations of Abu Ghraib first surfaced, and yet they described a period of captivity eerily similar to that of the Iraqis in Abu Ghraib.

In August Mr Ahmed, Mr Rasul and Mr Iqbal issued a 115-page dossier accusing the US of abuse, including allegations that they were beaten and had their Korans thrown into toilets.*



(*Also published in The Hartford Courant (Connecticut), January 16, 2005.)



January 9, 2003

The New York Times | Late Edition - Final | SECTION: Section A; Column 2; Foreign Desk; Pg. 14 | THREATS AND RESPONSES: TERROR; Hate of the West Finds Fertile Soil in Yemen. But Does Al Qaeda? By Ian Fisher | DATELINE: SANA, Yemen, Jan. 8

Investigators know the basic facts: In this poor and isolated nation with no lack of extremists, a young preacher named Ahmed Ali Jarallah assembled a small cell of militants to strike the enemies of Islam in Yemen. Two years ago, he read off a hate list in a speech at a mosque here, singling out specifically a hospital run by American Baptists.

"In Jibla, there is the Baptist hospital, which is the source of Christian activities in the province," Mr. Jarallah said. Muslims converted to Christianity at this hospital, he charged, and even "stuff the Holy Koran into toilets of mosques."

On Dec. 28, anger went into action: Mr. Jarallah himself assassinated a leading secular politician, Jarallah Omar, according to the police. Two days later, one of Mr. Jarallah's followers, Abed Abdel Razzak Kamel, is said to have killed three Americans in the hospital, which provided medical care in the southern town of Jibla for 35 years.



March 26, 2003

The Washington Post | Final Edition | SECTION: A SECTION; Pg. A12 HEADLINE: Returning Afghans Talk of Guantanamo; Out of Legal Limbo, Some Tell of Mistreatment | BYLINE: Marc Kaufman and April Witt, Washington Post Staff Writers

The men, the largest single group of Afghans to be released after months of detainment at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, gave varying accounts of how American forces treated them during interrogation and detainment. Some displayed medical records showing extensive care by American military doctors, while others complained that American soldiers insulted Islam by sitting on the Koran or dumping their sacred text into a toilet to taunt them.

[...]

Ehsannullah, 29, said American soldiers who initially questioned him in Kandahar before shipping him to Guantanamo hit him and taunted him by dumping the Koran in a toilet.



August 4, 2004

CNN.com | SECTION: LAW | HEADLINE: British men report abuse from Guantanamo BYLINE: By Jonathan Wald CNN
DATELINE: NEW YORK

U.S. soldiers "would kick the Koran, throw it into the toilet, and generally disrespect it," Iqbal said.



June 28, 2004

Financial Times Information | Global News Wire - Asia Africa Intelligence Wire | InfoProd | Reprinted with the permission of Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty

One of the men, Timur Ishmuratov of Tatarstan, told ORT on 24 June -- prior to the release -- that he had been captured by Northern Alliance forces shortly after the beginning of the U.S. military action in Afghanistan and "sold" to the Americans for $ 3,000-$ 5,000. Former prisoner Airat Vakhitov told ORT about alleged mistreatment while he was at Guantanamo. "They tore the Koran to pieces in front of us, threw it into the toilet," Vakhitov said. "When people were praying, they forced their way in and put their feet on people's heads and beat them."


Yeah I believe all those prisoners we caught on a battlefield trying to kill us that supported the people who killed us on 9/11. Not to mention 93 WTC bombing, USS Cole, Kobhar Towers, Embassy bombings, attempted Y2K bombing. But I know Bush lied and the whole world agreed with him until it was time to actually do something. And then Franc and Germnay saw their meal-ticket with Sadaam going down the tubes and got mad.

[Bwana]

Wow, It looks like the Can has gone over the edge. Easy bud, or you are going to blow a heart valve.

[BCD]

Looks like the Can is about to go full blown Hel'n on us...

[mlyonsd]

Looks like the Can is about to go full blown Hel'n on us...

He's got a right too. His source is the same one Newsweek uses.

[BCD]

Something I find interesting about all of this is Muslims in Saudi Arabia and other countries will not even allow people to freely express their faith, if its something other than Muslim. They are upset about a Koran that may have been flushed. How many Bibles and Torahs have Muslims burned throughout the years?

[BIG_DADDY]

The other direction would seem to be a larger assumption for those who don't subscribe to conspiracy theories.

I don't believe a lot of them but to say you simply don't subscribe to any conspiracy theories is just silly. If we knew who the government official was it might shine some light on the subject.

[Mr. Kotter]

.... How many Bibles and Torahs have Muslims burned throughout the years?

Great point.

jAZ, Duhnise, Can? Got statistics on that from your people? :hmmm:

[Laz]

Newsweak lied. People died.
from what i understand, they don't know if the story was actually wrong.

they just lost their source and had to print a retraction.


Apparently "their source" got cold feet when all the chit hit the fan.



doesn't mean the story was correct or incorrect

[BIG_DADDY]

from what i understand, they don't know if the story was actually wrong.

they just lost their source and had to print a retraction.


Apparently "their source" got cold feet when all the chit hit the fan.



doesn't mean the story was correct or incorrect

Sue the MOFO's

[HC_Chief]

Sue the MOFO's

On what grounds?

Seriously, all this bullshit story of theirs did was rile up a pack of anti-American shitheels. They were anti-American shitheels before the story broke... the fact that Newsweek printed it is somewhat irrelevant.

I say break another bullshit story to flush out the anti-American shitheels, then strafe and clusterbomb their Koran-thumping asses while they're nice enough to present themselves as a mass target.

[BIG_DADDY]

On what grounds?

Seriously, all this bullshit story of theirs did was rile up a pack of anti-American shitheels. They were anti-American shitheels before the story broke... the fact that Newsweek printed it is somewhat irrelevant.

I say break another bullshit story to flush out the anti-American shitheels, then strafe and clusterbomb their Koran-thumping asses while they're nice enough to present themselves as a mass target.


Good point. If you lost a family member over it I am sure you would be more than a little pissed. I have been reading some quotes from this supposed holy book too. Pretty scary stuff.

"Slay them wherever you find them...Idolatry is worse than carnage...Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme." (Surah 2:190-)

"Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it." (Surah 2:216)

[HC_Chief]

Good point. If you lost a family member over it I am sure you would be more than a little pissed.

Not any more than I would have been w/o this story. Again, to me the story is irrelevant in terms of the violence in the region. That's due to a pack of f*cking lunatics, not some bullshit article that they never read.

I'm tired of our trying to placate them.

[Cochise]

:shake:

They printed this based on ONE unnamed source?

Maybe I'll call them up and anonymously tell them I have the world's biggest crank and they'll print that.

[BIG_DADDY]

Not any more than I would have been w/o this story. Again, to me the story is irrelevant in terms of the violence in the region. That's due to a pack of f*cking lunatics, not some bullshit article that they never read.

I'm tired of our trying to placate them.

I hear ya. This is some more scary shit.

"Men are tempted [in this life] by the lure of women...far better is the return of God. Say: 'Shall I tell you of better things than these, with which the righteous shall be rewarded by their Lord? Theirs shall be gardens watered by running streams, where they shall dwell for ever: wives of perfect chastity..." (Surah 3:14, 15)

"The only true faith in God's sight is Islam." (Surah 3:19)

"Believers, do not make friends with any but your own people...They desire nothing but your ruin....You believe in the entire Book...When they meet you they say: 'We, too, are believers.' But when alone, they bite their finger-tips with rage." (Surah 3:118, 119)

"If you should die or be slain in the cause of God, His forgiveness and His mercy would surely be better than all the riches..." (Surah 3:156-)




How do you reason with people who belive this shit?

[HC_Chief]

How do you reason with people who belive this shit?
With high-velocity rounds and napalm. :evil:

[BIG_DADDY]

With high-velocity rounds and napalm. :evil:


NICE!!! ROFL

[memyselfI]

They are upset about a Koran that may have been flushed. How many Bibles and Torahs have Muslims burned throughout the years?


I find it interesting that some people are missing the point...

the upset was NOT that Korans were being flushed down the toilet by Americans but RATHER that they were reportedly being flushed by AMERICAN/US GOVERNMENT AGENTS.

Personally burning or flushing any book doesn't irritate me so I don't share the symbollism or the outrage behind what was done. However, the difference in this case appears to be the fact that it was US government officials doing it and given what had previously been seen in AGPrison I think most people were prepared to believe it true. Likely most Muslims will continue to believe inspite of, and maybe BECAUSE OF, the retractions and denials. :shake:

[Bwana]

I find it interesting that some people are missing the point...

the upset was NOT that Korans were being flushed down the toilet by Americans but RATHER that they were reportedly being flushed by AMERICAN/US GOVERNMENT AGENTS.

Personally burning or flushing any book doesn't irritate me so I don't share the symbollism or the outrage behind what was done. However, the difference in this case appears to be the fact that it was US government officials doing it and given what had previously been seen in AGPrison I think most people were prepared to believe it true. Likely most Muslims will continue to believe inspite of, and maybe BECAUSE OF, the retractions and denials. :shake:

Seriously, exactly how big is a Koran? If they are around the same size as a bible, they must have some shitters the size of Ford F-350s in order to send something that size on a voyage.

[petegz28]

I find it interesting that some people are missing the point...

the upset was NOT that Korans were being flushed down the toilet by Americans but RATHER that they were reportedly being flushed by AMERICAN/US GOVERNMENT AGENTS.

Personally burning or flushing any book doesn't irritate me so I don't share the symbollism or the outrage behind what was done. However, the difference in this case appears to be the fact that it was US government officials doing it and given what had previously been seen in AGPrison I think most people were prepared to believe it true. Likely most Muslims will continue to believe inspite of, and maybe BECAUSE OF, the retractions and denials. :shake:


And it was wrong and who cares if they WERE doing it? Jesus Christ they sever people's heads and all I hear from the left is.."well it's our fault"...thes epoeple blow us up and we get chastised for putting panties on their heads or tearing up a Koran??? GIVEME A ****ING BREAK!

[mlyonsd]

I find it interesting that some people are missing the point...

the upset was NOT that Korans were being flushed down the toilet by Americans but RATHER that they were reportedly being flushed by AMERICAN/US GOVERNMENT AGENTS.

Personally burning or flushing any book doesn't irritate me so I don't share the symbollism or the outrage behind what was done. However, the difference in this case appears to be the fact that it was US government officials doing it and given what had previously been seen in AGPrison I think most people were prepared to believe it true. Likely most Muslims will continue to believe inspite of, and maybe BECAUSE OF, the retractions and denials. :shake:

I agree. Thanks to Newsweek it's a lose-lose proposition.

[BIG_DADDY]

This is some really good stuff:

"Forbidden to you are...married women, except those you own as slaves." (Surah 4:20-, 24-)

"Believers, do not approach your prayers when you are drunk, but wait till you can grasp the meaning of your words..." (Surah 4:43)

"Seek out your enemies relentlessly." (Surah 4:103-)

"Try as you may, you cannot treat all your wives impartially." (Surah 4:126-)

"The Jews and Christians say: 'We are the children of God and His loved ones.' Say: 'Why then does He punish you for your sins?" (Surah 5:18)

"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)

[Radar Chief]

I find it interesting that some people are missing the point...

the upset was NOT that Korans were being flushed down the toilet by Americans but RATHER that they were reportedly being flushed by AMERICAN/US GOVERNMENT AGENTS.

Personally burning or flushing any book doesn't irritate me so I don't share the symbollism or the outrage behind what was done. However, the difference in this case appears to be the fact that it was US government officials doing it and given what had previously been seen in AGPrison I think most people were prepared to believe it true. Likely most Muslims will continue to believe inspite of, and maybe BECAUSE OF, the retractions and denials. :shake:

I agree, particularly with the bolded part.
People have a tendency to believe what fits their view, therefore this will be accepted by those that want to think it’s true no matter the contradictory evidence.

[DanT]

National Review Online's Andrew McCarthy has an interesting take on this news. Here's the beginning of his recent column:

http://www.nationalreview.com/mccarthy/mccarthy200505171307.asp

May 17, 2005, 1:07 p.m.
The Smug Delusion of Base Expectations
Count me out of the Newsweek feeding frenzy.

We're in the grips of a pathology. And it's not media bias.

Here's the late-breaking news (you'll want to be sitting down for this): The mainstream media is ideologically liberal and instinctually hostile to George W. Bush, U.S. foreign policy, and the American military.

No kidding. Really. If you want to throw the off-switch for the cognitive part of your brain — as many conservatives seem only to happy to do this week — then, by all means, that is the story you want to run with in this latest media scandal.

Newsweek, in reckless pursuit of a scoop that might score the daily double of embarrassing the Bush administration while heaping more disrepute on the Left's favorite punching bag, Guantanamo Bay, falsely reported a martial toilet-flushing of the Koran. Oops, I'm sorry, I mean the Holy Koran — after all, I don't want to be left out of the new, vast right-wing "we can be just as nauseatingly pious as they can" conspiracy.

The false report, according to the New York Times, instigated "the most virulent, widespread anti-American protests" in the Muslim world since...well, since the last virulent, widespread anti-American protests in the Muslim world — particularly in Afghanistan and Pakistan, where at least 17 people have been killed.

That's right. The reason for the carnage is said — again and again, by media critics and government officials — to be a false report of Koran desecration. The prime culprit here is irresponsible journalism.

Is that what we really think?

Here's an actual newsflash — and one, yet again, that should be news to no one: The reason for the carnage here was, and is, militant Islam. Nothing more.

Newsweek merely gave the crazies their excuse du jour. But they didn't need a report of Koran desecration to fly jumbo jets into skyscrapers, to blow up embassies, or to behead hostages taken for the great sin of being Americans or Jews. They didn't need a report of Koran desecration to take to the streets and blame the United States while enthusiastically taking innocent lives. This is what they do.

The outpouring of righteous indignation against Newsweek glides past a far more important point. Yes, we're all sick of media bias. But "Newsweek lied and people died" is about as worthy a slogan as the scurrilous "Bush lied and people died" that it parrots. And when we engage in this kind of mindless demagoguery, we become just another opportunistic plaintiff — no better than the people all too ready to blame the CIA because Mohammed Atta steered a hijacked civilian airliner into a big building, and to sue the Port Authority because the building had the audacity to collapse from the blow.

What are we saying here? That the problem lies in the falsity of Newsweek's reporting? What if the report had been true? And, if you're being honest with yourself, you cannot say — based on common sense and even ignoring what we know happened at Abu Ghraib — that you didn't think it was conceivably possible the report could have been true. Flushing the Koran down a toilet (assuming for argument's sake that our environmentally correct, 3.6-liters-per-flush toilets are capable of such a feat) is a bad thing. But rioting? Seventeen people killed? That's a rational response?

Sorry, but I couldn't care less about Newsweek. I'm more worried about the response and our willful avoidance of its examination. Afghanistan has been an American reconstruction project for nearly four years. Pakistan has been a close American "war on terror" ally for just as long. This is what we're getting from the billions spent, the lives lost, and the grand project of exporting nonjudgmental, sharia-friendly democracy? A killing spree? Over this?

...



For rest of column, go to http://www.nationalreview.com/mccarthy/mccarthy200505171307.asp

[Logical]

Here's an actual newsflash — and one, yet again, that should be news to no one: The reason for the carnage here was, and is, militant Islam. Nothing more.


While this is true, there is no denying it also stirred up the less than militant, and less than extremist followers of the Islam faith. Something that would have been less than likely without the false report.

[DanT]

While this is true, there is no denying it also stirred up the less than militant, and less than extremist followers of the Islam faith. Something that would have been less than likely without the false report.

Was the killing done only by the militant or were some of the less-than-militant the direct proximal cause of whatever killed the victims?

Also, in this and in other cases that might come up, do you see the stirring up of the less-than-miliant as being necessarily present (or, at least, extremely likely to be present) in order for there to be killing by the militant?

I can imagine militants killing folks without the less-than-militant being stirred up. If the killing was done by only the militant and if the only effects of the Newsweek story were on the less-than-militant, then one would have to require that the attitudes and behavior of the less-than-militant have something to do with the murderous impulses of the militant in order to make the claim that Newsweek's actions were involved in the killing.

[Logical]

Was the killing done by the militant or by the less-than-militant?

Also, in this and in other cases that might come up, do you see the stirring up of the less-than-miliant as being necessarily present (or, at least, extremely likely to be present) in order for there to be killing by the militant?

I can imagine militants killing folks without the less-than-militant being stirred up. If the killing was done by the militant and if the only effects of the Newsweek story were on the less-than-militant, then one would have to require that the attitudes and behavior of the less-than-militant have something to do with the murderous impulses of the militant in order to make the claim that Newsweek's actions were involved in the killing.

Dan I have to say I honestly do not know. I know that the reports state that violence across the spectrum increased, but whether that includes killing? I do not plan to contribute to the hysteria by saying that is the case without some facts to back it up.

[DanT]

Dan I have to say I honestly do not know. I know that the reports state that violence across the spectrum increased, but whether that includes killing? I do not plan to contribute to the hysteria by saying that is the case without some facts to back it up.

Fair enough, Vlad Logiclsav! I sure don't know either. :thumb:

[bkkcoh]

It is pretty sad to think that someone could get so riled up over an action like that. :banghead:

[Michael Michigan]

from what i understand, they don't know if the story was actually wrong.

they just lost their source and had to print a retraction.


Apparently "their source" got cold feet when all the chit hit the fan.



doesn't mean the story was correct or incorrect

Fake but accurate Part Deux?

[memyselfI]

I agree. Thanks to Newsweek it's a lose-lose proposition.

Uh, I'm not sure how this is Newsweek fault. I've argued the US would be in such a situation if they pursued the war...

and so far I've seen little to change my mind. MOF, I two years in I feel they are more lose-lose now than I even imagined. There is little to nothing they can do to remedy the image they've cultivated with the region. The US will be seen as an enemy and their actions suspect for decades to come.

[mlyonsd]

Uh, I'm not sure how this is Newsweek fault. I've argued the US would be in such a situation if they pursued the war...

and so far I've seen little to change my mind. MOF, I two years in I feel they are more lose-lose now than I even imagined. There is little to nothing they can do to remedy the image they've cultivated with the region. The US will be seen as an enemy and their actions suspect for decades to come.

Ugh, I missed the part where the Bush administration was quoted as saying a Koran was flushed down a toilet.

Or are you talking in general terms about the way we're seen in that part of the world? You're right, we've been looked at like dog shit for going on decades.

[HC_Chief]

Here's an actual newsflash — and one, yet again, that should be news to no one: The reason for the carnage here was, and is, militant Islam. Nothing more.

nodding in agreement

[Joe Seahawk]

I wonder if Newsweak and Isikoff would have considered printing a story negative to Clinton.. OOPS! I guess not.. (http://www.drudgereport.com/ml.htm)

[memyselfI]

Ugh, I missed the part where the Bush administration was quoted as saying a Koran was flushed down a toilet.

Or are you talking in general terms about the way we're seen in that part of the world? You're right, we've been looked at like dog shit for going on decades.


Because of covert meddling in the internal affairs of Iran, Iraq, SA, etc. before the second Iraq war. Now it's because of the overt control being exercised in the region. People's initial suspicions of what he US was working towards in the region has been realized...at least in their eyes.

[mlyonsd]

I wonder if Newsweak and Isikoff would have considered printing a story negative to Clinton.. OOPS! I guess not.. (http://www.drudgereport.com/ml.htm)

Waiting for the inevitable "it was just about sex" tyrades to begin.

[mlyonsd]

Because of covert meddling in the internal affairs of Iran, Iraq, SA, etc. before the second Iraq war. Now it's because of the overt control being exercised in the region. People's initial suspicions of what he US was working towards in the region has been realized...at least in their eyes.

I don't blame them a bit for being upset about the Newsweek report. But to protest to the point people get killed is somewhat idiotic.

I agree with you too, there's not a whole lot we can do right now to change their minds. When you get most of your news from Al-Jezeera you're bound to be a little twisted in the head.

[memyselfI]

I don't blame them a bit for being upset about the Newsweek report. But to protest to the point people get killed is somewhat idiotic.

I agree with you too, there's not a whole lot we can do right now to change their minds. When you get most of your news from Al-Jezeera you're bound to be a little twisted in the head.

Mark, the whole point is they are NOT protesting and getting killed over the Newsweek report. Those words on paper were merely stoking an already seething fire.

[mlyonsd]

Mark, the whole point is they are NOT protesting and getting killed over the Newsweek report. Those words on paper were merely stoking an already seething fire.

Then if that article wouldn't have been printed those 16 people would still be dead?

I understand what you're saying but to not blame Newsweek for the incident is looking the other way IMO.

I acknowledge we have some blame in how the middle east percieves us but in the same breathe don't think we get a fair shake.

[memyselfI]

Then if that article wouldn't have been printed those 16 people would still be dead?

I understand what you're saying but to not blame Newsweek for the incident is looking the other way IMO.

I acknowledge we have some blame in how the middle east percieves us but in the same breathe don't think we get a fair shake.

Mark, check out my other thread. This story has been circulated before.

[Radar Chief]

I don't blame them a bit for being upset about the Newsweek report. But to protest to the point people get killed is somewhat idiotic.

I agree with you too, there's not a whole lot we can do right now to change their minds. When you get most of your news from Al-Jezeera you're bound to be a little twisted in the head.

Agreed, a perfect example is who you responding to. ;)

[memyselfI]

Agreed, a perfect example is who you responding to. ;)

Ah, did you happen to notice that the story of desecrating Korans has been reported in places other than Newsweek or Al Jezeera?

[Radar Chief]

Ah, did you happen to notice that the story of desecrating Korans has been reported in places other than Newsweek or Al Jezeera?


Did you happen to notice the source of these complaints?

[memyselfI]

Did you happen to notice the source of these complaints?

And you are expecting Americans to be voicing the complaints or the source of complaining about the practice? :hmmm:

[Radar Chief]

And you are expecting Americans to be voicing the complaints or the source of complaining about the practice? :hmmm:

:LOL: Are you expecting former detainees to tell nothing put the truth ‘bout there former captures?

[memyselfI]

:LOL: Are you expecting former detainees to tell nothing put the truth ‘bout there former captures?

Well, would former detainees from AG Prison have been believed? And if no pictures had existed would their tales been untrue?

[Chief Henry]

Well, would former detainees from AG Prison have been believed? And if no pictures had existed would their tales been untrue?


Who do you beleave ? The Ex GIT MO Prisoners or the US Military?

SOme one will have to quote this. She's had me on iggy since I called her out along time ago... :rolleyes:

[Cochise]

I wonder if Newsweak and Isikoff would have considered printing a story negative to Clinton.. OOPS! I guess not.. (http://www.drudgereport.com/ml.htm)

Well well, what do you know. The very same publication had no problem killing a story damaging to Clinton.

[DanT]

From the United States State Department's website, published less than a week ago:
http://usinfo.state.gov/sa/Archive/2005/May/13-80476.html

Afghan Riots Not Tied to Report on Quran Handling, General Says
Army investigating allegations of mishandling at Guantanamo Bay facility



By Jacquelyn S. Porth
Washington File Staff Writer



Washington – The chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff says a report from Afghanistan suggests that rioting in Jalalabad on May 11 was not necessarily connected to press reports that the Quran might have been desecrated in the presence of Muslim prisoners held in U.S. custody at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

Air Force General Richard Myers told reporters at the Pentagon May 12 that he has been told that the Jalalabad, Afghanistan, rioting was related more to the ongoing political reconciliation process in Afghanistan than anything else.

According to initial reports, the situation in Jalalabad began on May 10 with peaceful student protests reacting to a report in Newsweek magazine that U.S. military interrogators questioning Muslim detainees at the Guantanamo detention center “had placed Qurans on toilets, and in at least one case flushed a holy book.” By the following day the protests in the city had turned violent with reports of several individuals killed, dozens wounded, and widespread looting of government, diplomatic and nongovernmental assets.

However, Myers said an after-action report provided by U.S. Army Lieutenant General Karl Eikenberry, commander of the Combined Forces in Afghanistan, indicated that the political violence was not, in fact, connected to the magazine report.

Meanwhile, Myers said the U.S. military has assigned Army General Bantz Craddock to investigate allegations about the handling of the Quran at Guantanamo. Craddock brings the full weight of his responsibility as commander of the U.S. Southern Command to this effort.

Myers said the International Committee of the Red Cross has approved the edition of the Quran that has been distributed to Muslim detainees in Guantanamo. Craddock has been investigating the claim that proper respect was not given to the Quran. There are now some 550 enemy combatants at the military installation, which is designed to isolate individuals whom the military has identified as likely to have valuable intelligence about international terrorism.

Craddock and his team have examined the prisoner interrogation logs and Myers said “they cannot confirm yet” that there ever was a case of a U.S. interrogator flushing a Quran down the toilet. He did say there is another unconfirmed log reference to a guard report that a detainee tore pages from the Quran and flushed them in an attempt to flood the holding area as a form of protest.

Myers answered questions about the alleged Quran incident on the same day that Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice addressed the issue during an appearance before the House International Relations Committee.

She said disrespect for the Quran will never be tolerated by the United States and such disrespect “is abhorrent to us all.” Pakistan has voiced its concerns about the alleged incident, and Rice said the United States understands and shares the concerns of its Muslim friends. She went on to voice this request: “I am asking that all our friends around the world reject incitement to violence by those who would mischaracterize our intentions.” (See related article.)

INSURGENCY SEEKS TO DISCREDIT NEW IRAQI CABINET, MYERS SAYS

At the Pentagon, Myers was also questioned closely about the increase in violence in Iraq in recent weeks. He acknowledged that there has been “a spike in violence in early May,” but he said this is to be expected given the “very violent insurgency” that is under way in that country.

The insurgency’s use of a variety of roadside and car bombs has been difficult to thwart, the general said. He also noted the difficulty of sealing Iraq’s borders against infiltrators. On this “we need cooperation from Iraq’s neighbors” -- an issue that is being pursued vigorously, Myers said.

Most insurgencies have a lifespan of three to nine years, Myers said, and addressing them militarily requires patience. In this case, the insurgents are out to discredit the newly formed Iraqi Cabinet, he said.

Myers made his remarks during an appearance with Defense Secretary Rumsfeld and other senior military and civilian officials to talk about the 2005 Base Realignment and Closure recommendations, which will be formally unveiled May 13.






Created: 12 May 2005 Updated: 12 May 2005

[BigOlChiefsfan]

http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2005/05/newsweek_lutefi.html