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dirk digler
05-21-2005, 08:23 AM
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/11701583.htm

Chiefs raise specter of moving team

County officials perceive a heightened need for tax

By JEFFREY SPIVAK and BENITA Y. WILLIAMS

The Kansas City Star

For the first time in stadium improvement talks, one of Kansas City's major teams has raised the possibility of leaving town if the Truman Sports Complex is not renovated.

The Chiefs' new chairman, Clark Hunt, recently told a group of state legislators and local leaders that one or both teams would probably leave Kansas City if Jackson County defaulted on its leases with the teams and the sports complex didn't get a major face-lift soon.

Although the Royals have distanced themselves from that scenario, it is giving Jackson County and local sports officials a new sense of urgency as they try to solve what some are calling a budding stadium crisis.

“That's the first time I've heard an owner state that thought,” said Bill Lucas, a Crown Center executive who leads the Greater Kansas City Sports Commission. “He was definitely raising a red flag.”

Mike Smith, who leads the county's sports complex authority, added: “It's got me real nervous. I would not take it as a threat, but as a message. He's just stating the facts, and the city needs to hear that.”

Now, in the wake of the Missouri legislature's decision not to fund more money for stadium improvements, county and sports officials are starting to meet with the teams to plan a Jackson County tax election sometime this year. The size, scope and even the timetable of any election remains unclear at this point.

“We're leaving all our options open,” said Jackson County Legislator Scott Burnett.

That means the election could be in August or November, although most officials lean toward the latter. It could be for a quarter-cent sales tax or three-eighths cent. And it could last four years, raising an estimated $80 million for minimum maintenance, or go a lot longer and raise hundreds of millions of dollars for renovations such as widened concourses, additional stores and new restaurants.

The ultimate decisions will depend on officials' reading of the political winds and of the teams' desires.

The teams and local sports leaders have already swung and missed three times this decade when attempting to obtain more money for the stadiums — twice with the Missouri legislature and once with a multicounty bistate tax. One additional complication is that both teams' wish lists are more expensive than the improvements included in the bistate package.

Time, however, is slowly running out on the legal tie that binds both the Royals and the Chiefs to Kansas City.

Jackson County has obligations under the teams' leases to maintain the stadiums. But the county has put off so many maintenance projects, citing lack of funds, that it is in danger of defaulting on those leases by the end of next year, even though the leases are supposed to last through 2014.

A default would allow the teams to move.

Earlier this month the Chiefs' Hunt and Royals owner David Glass joined local leaders in making a pitch for the languishing state bill in Jefferson City. At a meeting in the speaker of the House's office, state Rep. Bryan Pratt of Blue Springs told the owners that based on feedback from his constituents, there was no budding stadium crisis because neither team seemed in danger of leaving Kansas City.

That prompted Hunt to reply, according to Hunt and others at the meeting: “If there's no renovation of the sports complex, one or both of these franchises will be gone.”

This week Royals President Dan Glass reiterated — as he had earlier this year — that the Royals did not intend to relocate even if Jackson County ended up breaking the lease. “We're not going anywhere,” Glass said.

Hunt, meanwhile, did not back down from his statement. As owner Lamar Hunt's son, he is taking on a larger role as the face of the franchise.

In an interview this week, he said he meant one or both teams would not be playing in Missouri in 10 years, once the leases were up. The Chiefs are seeking not just Jackson County's required patchwork repairs but also an expansion of Arrowhead that would bump out the exterior walls and possibly add a hall of fame, among other things.

That represents the reality of the big-league sports business today, in which almost every franchise has gotten or wants an updated stadium.

Another sign of discouragement came Friday when the Chiefs pulled a Kansas City Super Bowl proposal that would have come to a vote at next week's NFL meetings in Washington.

The proposal would have granted the Chiefs a Super Bowl sometime between 2012 and 2022 provided that they had a high-quality, roofed stadium and that Kansas City met all the other normal requirements of a host city, including a minimum number of hotel rooms.

The Chiefs may resubmit the proposal later this year or next, but likely will not do so until Arrowhead renovation plans have more definition.

Local officials have taken Hunt's message seriously.

“We need to believe it,” said Kansas City Councilwoman Becky Nace, who heard Hunt's assertion. “He said it and he meant it. We need to attend to our teams. We can't take them for granted.”

Jackson County Legislature Chairman Dan Tarwater added: “What it tells us is the teams have other options. I truly believe they don't want to move, but with all the options out there, they could go to any city in many states across the country.”

Pratt noted that a further concern with the Chiefs is Lamar Hunt's age and recent health problems.

“Clark's taken over, and there's some concern that Clark isn't as committed to Kansas City as Lamar,” Pratt said. “But it's always been my sense in discussions with Clark that he is committed to Kansas City.”

The county and the teams had hoped for more state aid this legislative session. They made a simple pitch: Let stadium users pick up more of the tab for stadium costs. In this case, those users are mainly millionaire ballplayers. Local officials wanted the existing tax on out-of-state athletes and entertainers changed, directing more of that revenue toward stadiums instead of the state's general programs.

In the end, state lawmakers did not pass the bill. Although the teams sweetened the stadium bill by making it contingent on them working out new lease extensions, the move was perceived as too little, too late.

The state was cutting services for low-income residents, so some lawmakers could not justify shifting more money to wealthy sports owners. And many legislators considered the bill a bailout for Jackson County's troubles.

Now it's up to Jackson County to not only avoid default but also possibly bear the burden of upgrading a regional asset.

“This shows you it really is a critical issue that we're looking at and it would be very unwise if we don't put all our time and attention toward trying to work out a solution,” said Jackson County Legislator Dennis Waits.

The Star's Adam Teicher contributed to this report.

keg in kc
05-21-2005, 08:26 AM
Politics.

dirk digler
05-21-2005, 08:28 AM
Politics.

Agree but it looks like the Chiefs are going to play hardball now.

keg in kc
05-21-2005, 08:31 AM
Agree but it looks like the Chiefs are going to play hardball now.Good. It's about time.

REDHOTGTO
05-21-2005, 08:34 AM
Ya know what, maybe the best time to pull out the moving card is AFTER
you win a super bowl! :cuss:

Skip Towne
05-21-2005, 08:35 AM
Agree but it looks like the Chiefs are going to play hardball now.
And they now have the defense to do it.

dirk digler
05-21-2005, 08:38 AM
Good. It's about time.

IMO it is a little early to be pulling out I am going to move the team card. If Jackson County fails to pass the tax later this year then I am all for it.

I just don't want the team to move especially to Kansas.

Nzoner
05-21-2005, 08:44 AM
Ya know what, maybe the best time to pull out the moving card is AFTER
you win a super bowl! :cuss:

The amount of cussing and bitching I do about the team not going to the Super Bowl is nothing compared to what I'll be like if they ever move.

As much as I want them to get the Lombardi,I want them to stay in KC,MO that much more.

2bikemike
05-21-2005, 09:44 AM
There has to be some way for Jackson county to become less influential in the dealings with Arrowhead and make it a more regional issue. There is enough money in Johnson Cty and the surrounding areas that support the Chiefs to effectively refurbish the stadium.

Ebolapox
05-21-2005, 10:05 AM
from what I've read, art modell asked for ten years or so about stadium renovations and/or a new stadium before he moved them to baltimore--hopefully KC isn't as stupid as cleveland was--

-EB-

VonneMarie
05-21-2005, 10:28 AM
If they move they ain't going to Ks, so you guys can forget about that.

Skip Towne
05-21-2005, 10:39 AM
If they move they ain't going to Ks, so you guys can forget about that.
So you've already decided that then?

Mr. Laz
05-21-2005, 10:51 AM
I just don't want the team to move especially to Kansas.
ya ... cause having them move to LA would be much better than just having them move 50 miles to the west.

stevieray
05-21-2005, 10:54 AM
The team logo is gonna look silly with just a K in it.

jynni
05-21-2005, 11:04 AM
If they move them out by the Speedway, that's actually KCK isn't it? They could still be the Kansas City Chiefs.

That said. I'd be pretty pissed.

TEX
05-21-2005, 11:11 AM
The amount of cussing and bitching I do about the team not going to the Super Bowl is nothing compared to what I'll be like if they ever move.

As much as I want them to get the Lombardi,I want them to stay in KC,MO that much more.

Well then, if they do get the Lombardi again in the near future, perhaps that will solve the moving issue... :hmmm:

TEX
05-21-2005, 11:13 AM
The team logo is gonna look silly with just a K in it.


Well, they could keep it and make it stand for the "Kansas Chiefs :hmmm: Now what would look STUPID is LA inside the Arrowhead... :shake:

jspchief
05-21-2005, 11:17 AM
If they move to Kansas, they don't have to stop calling themselves the Kansas City Chiefs. There are other NFL teams that have stadiums in different cities than their name indicates.

Ever hear of the New Jersey Giants and the New Jersey Jets?

TEX
05-21-2005, 11:20 AM
from what I've read, art modell asked for ten years or so about stadium renovations and/or a new stadium before he moved them to baltimore--hopefully KC isn't as stupid as cleveland was--

-EB-


So did Bud Adams - and he actually did get the money to renovate the Astrodome. Then he asked for a new stadium and when Harris County said no, he moved the team. As everyone knows, Houston got another team and they did get a new stadium (Like Bud Adams asked for) but Houston is a much bigger market than KC. The folks in Kansas City should pay attention cause if the CHIEFS are to move, Kansas City will never get a new football team. And if they do, it will be a very long time and a new stadium would have to be built anyway. Folks should realize that the easiest thing to do is to renovate ARROWHEAD.

TEX
05-21-2005, 11:21 AM
If they move to Kansas, they don't have to stop calling themselves the Kansas City Chiefs. There are other NFL teams that have stadiums in different cities than their name indicates.

Ever hear of the New Jersey Giants and the New Jersey Jets?

Or the Irving Cowboys? :hmmm:

Vaspar
05-21-2005, 11:26 AM
:harumph: I'd much rather see the Chiefs in KCK than not in Kansas City at all. Jackson County government doesn't seem to appreciate the value of our sports franchises or they have to get hit between the eyes before they open them, and the MO legislature is only concerned with the teams on the east side of the state. :banghead:

Mr. Laz
05-21-2005, 11:35 AM
If they move to Kansas, they don't have to stop calling themselves the Kansas City Chiefs. There are other NFL teams that have stadiums in different cities than their name indicates.

Ever hear of the New Jersey Giants and the New Jersey Jets?
the name,the uniforms, the team would all stay the same


it just gets them away from the Jackson county sports commission

DTLB58
05-21-2005, 11:43 AM
Question for the K.C. folks here.....What is your take on how Lamar's son is going to run the team one day? Is he gonna be more aggresive than Lamar and take more control himself or is he going to let the G.M. run the team? Just wondering if we are looking at the next Jerry Jones/Al Davis type owner or will things stay pretty much the same?

Mr. Laz
05-21-2005, 11:57 AM
Question for the K.C. folks here.....What is your take on how Lamar's son is going to run the team one day? Is he gonna be more aggresive than Lamar and take more control himself or is he going to let the G.M. run the team? Just wondering if we are looking at the next Jerry Jones/Al Davis type owner or will things stay pretty much the same?
don't know yet...

but with the age difference you can prolly assume that Clark will be more aggressive..... but also more "cut throat"


youth brings positives and negatives

SoCalBronco
05-21-2005, 12:55 PM
from this morning on PFT.



POSTED 11:13 a.m. EDT, May 21, 2005



CHIEFS SUDDENLY LOOKING TO L.A.?



Though it had been widely thought that either the Saints or the Vikings would be the team to fill the market vacated by the NFL ten years ago, there's a new team in line to pull up the teepees and roll to Cali.



The Kansas City Chiefs.



Per The Kansas City Star, new Chiefs chairman Clark Hunt recently told a group of politicians that, if renovations to the Truman Sports Complex are not completed, the team could very well vamoose.



The Chiefs are locked in to a lease that expires in 2014, but they would be permitted to am-scray if Jackson County defaults on its obligation to maintain Arrowhead Stadium.



Due to a lack of funding, a default could occur by late 2006.



The locals seem to be taking this seriously, since Clark Hunt is now firmly in control of the former AFL team that his father, Lamar, founded as the Dallas Texans before moving the organization to Kansas City in 1963.



“Clark's taken over, and there's some concern that Clark isn't as committed to Kansas City as Lamar,” said Bryan Pratt, a Missouri legislator.



The younger Hunt has yet to mention Los Angeles as a possible destination, but any team thinking about greener pastures would be nuts not to park in the nation's No. 2 market.



For one thing, the NFL has made clear its intention to put a team back in L.A. And given the growing disparity between high-revenue and low-revenue teams (scroll down for more), what owner wouldn't want to be in position to sell big-dollar luxury suites to hundreds of entertainment types with money to burn?



Another hidden benefit to moving the Chiefs to L.A. is that their membership in the AFC West means that, every year, the Raiders would come back to the town where they still have plenty of fans.

KCChiefsFan88
05-21-2005, 01:08 PM
Hopefully they'll get that sales tax on the ballot in November and it will pass.

I hope Mayor Kay Barnes gets behind that sales tax as strongly as she did the sales tax that passed last summer to build the Sprint Center.

The thing that worries me though is that the NFL may see the Chiefs as the logical choice, in terms of re-locating a franchise to LA because it would be in the AFC West with natural rivals such as San Diego and Oakland and no re-alignment would be needed. Also I'm sure the NFL wouldn't mind replacing one of the smallest markets in the NFL with the 2nd biggest market in the country.

I think though this year, without having to follow the sales tax for the Sprint Center (as was the case last year), and the fact the Chiefs had a very good offseason with high profile moves that should lead to a much better season this year, any sales tax on a ballot this November should have much more momentum than was the case last year.

Valiant
05-21-2005, 01:19 PM
There has to be some way for Jackson county to become less influential in the dealings with Arrowhead and make it a more regional issue. There is enough money in Johnson Cty and the surrounding areas that support the Chiefs to effectively refurbish the stadium.


They already said no they would not help with a vote last year... Hell I think the dempgraphic said only jackson and clay(True fans) were for it...


I would rather build a new staduim though(300-500million) instead of spend 80-100 to renovate it...

Valiant
05-21-2005, 01:20 PM
Hopefully they'll get that sales tax on the ballot in November and it will pass.

I hope Mayor Kay Barnes gets behind that sales tax as strongly as she did the sales tax that passed last summer to build the Sprint Center.

The thing that worries me though is that the NFL may see the Chiefs as the logical choice, in terms of re-locating a franchise to LA because it would be in the AFC West with natural rivals such as San Diego and Oakland and no re-alignment would be needed. Also I'm sure the NFL wouldn't mind replacing one of the smallest markets in the NFL with the 2nd biggest market in the country.

I think though this year, without having to follow the sales tax for the Sprint Center (as was the case last year), and the fact the Chiefs had a very good offseason with high profile moves that should lead to a much better season this year, any sales tax on a ballot this November should have much more momentum than was the case last year.


The Chiefs may be small market but they make a killing out here for profits and merchandise... It would be genocide if the NFL tried to force the Chiefs to LA...

Valiant
05-21-2005, 01:22 PM
For one thing, the NFL has made clear its intention to put a team back in L.A. And given the growing disparity between high-revenue and low-revenue teams (scroll down for more), what owner wouldn't want to be in position to sell big-dollar luxury suites to hundreds of entertainment types with money to burn?


Bullshit, there is no disparity in the NFL...

CrazyHorse
05-21-2005, 01:47 PM
Lets not forget that if the team moves there would be no more Arrowhead Stadium!

tk13
05-21-2005, 02:01 PM
About time. It's the only way anything is going to get done, because the fans and politicians just don't believe there is more money to be made moving to LA, and nobody seems to respect that threat is there, so you might as well throw that card out there to make people realize it's a possibility. They can't keep screwing around forever.

Ari Chi3fs
05-21-2005, 02:03 PM
I dont know if I like this Clark Hunt guy... I could easily see him moving the team to L.A. With all the rabid Chiefs fans here in the midwest... nutty gun toting mofos... if they move the Chiefs to LA, Clark better watch his back, JFK style.

|Zach|
05-21-2005, 02:03 PM
The team logo is gonna look silly with just a K in it.
ROFL Never thought of that.

Wile_E_Coyote
05-21-2005, 02:07 PM
when dealing with politicians you probably have to treat them like children, they sure act like children. You can't blame the voters for being pissed when they hear St. Louis gets 12 million to KC's 2, in support of the franchises

tk13
05-21-2005, 02:09 PM
Bullshit, there is no disparity in the NFL...
I think it's bigger than most people realize. You look at these teams in new stadiums with luxury boxes and they're making 40, 50, 60 million a year in profit, all of those luxury boxes are unshared revenue. You get to keep all the money, and that's where a lot of revenue is made anyway. People here act like we're God's gift to football and they can't move on us, but I think from a business standpoint the Chiefs moving makes as much business sense than as other team in the NFL. You can make more money with a brand new stadium in LA, you don't have to change divisions, you keep your natural rivalries. The trick is getting a stadium built, if you can do that you could make a lot of money.

Ari Chi3fs
05-21-2005, 02:18 PM
ROFL Never thought of that.


Id rather have it with a K... than with this shit.

Ari Chi3fs
05-21-2005, 02:19 PM
why cant LA get its own teams?

LA Dodgers, ganked from Brooklyn
LA Lakers ganked from Minnesota
LA Raiders ganked from Oakland

Geesh... get your own teams you Hollywood FAGS.

|Zach|
05-21-2005, 02:21 PM
Id rather have it with a K... than with this shit.
Blashphemor!

Ari Chi3fs
05-21-2005, 02:33 PM
Blashphemor!

so you are saying you like it with the LA? TRAITOR!!!1

Skip Towne
05-21-2005, 02:55 PM
I've watched two major league teams leave KC. I know damn well it can happen. And Clark Hunt can make it happen. We need to keep him tied up in a lease to avoid it.

Ari Chi3fs
05-21-2005, 02:59 PM
so much for the BEST offseason ever.

dirk digler
05-21-2005, 03:47 PM
ya ... cause having them move to LA would be much better than just having them move 50 miles to the west.

No question I would rather have them move to Kansas over by the Speedway then in CA. With that being said I don't want them to move anywhere. They belong in KC not KC,KS.

dirk digler
05-21-2005, 03:47 PM
I've watched two major league teams leave KC. I know damn well it can happen. And Clark Hunt can make it happen. We need to keep him tied up in a lease to avoid it.

Totally agree.

Katipan
05-21-2005, 03:59 PM
At least they would end up in a newly refurbished Rose Bowl which has most importantly... Red seats.

It'll feel just like Arrowhead.

ok maybe not. But you can drink until it does.

Valiant
05-21-2005, 04:14 PM
If the ****er does move the team... Hopefully we can get some of those litagations agianst him for mental anguish.. I think a couple of million would make me feel better...

That and IF it happened, the Chiefs stay here.. There will be no ****ing Chiefs organiztion in LA... They can rename them the Hollywood Homo's playing at Can't Sell out bandwagon Stadium sponsered by Raiders Fans...

But the Chiefs would stay ala the Browns style...

Chiefs_Mike_Topeka
05-21-2005, 04:39 PM
All you idiot "Chiefs can't move to Kansas" dumbasses need to get over yourselves and accept the fact that the Chiefs are tired of Misery screwing them over and watching all the support and money go to the Lambs. I have a good friend that works in the offices of a state senator for Kansas; the next legislative session get ready for proposals to hit the floor using state money to build the Chiefs a new stadium outside KC.

Bottom line; get the Chiefs out of Jackson county and somewhere (in KC Metro) where the people actually care about helping the team improve.

Bob Dole
05-21-2005, 04:46 PM
The county and the teams had hoped for more state aid this legislative session. They made a simple pitch: Let stadium users pick up more of the tab for stadium costs. In this case, those users are mainly millionaire ballplayers. Local officials wanted the existing tax on out-of-state athletes and entertainers changed, directing more of that revenue toward stadiums instead of the state's general programs.

But...but...that would take away funding for pork barrel projects in and near St. Louis.

|Zach|
05-21-2005, 05:01 PM
accept the fact that the Chiefs are tired of Misery screwing them over

Who is screwing who over? How many season ticket holders live in Johnson County? How much of their taxes go to support the Chiefs and the Truman Sports Complex?

cdcox
05-21-2005, 05:03 PM
The Chiefs may be small market but they make a killing out here for profits and merchandise... It would be genocide if the NFL tried to force the Chiefs to LA...

Buy a clue. LA metro area is 17.5 million compared to KC metro of less than 2 M. That is a factor of 10, which is a big number. It is such a big number that people who are intrested in numbers have a special name for it. We call it an order of magnitude. It is like arguing that KC would have no chance against Springfiled, MO in supporting an NFL franchise. The idea is ludicrous. There will be a team in LA. That team will do far more for the NFL than the Chiefs. Embrace the idea. Now KC does not have to offer more to the NFL and the Chiefs than LA. Only more than New Orleans, San Diego, Oakland, etc. You don't have to out run the bear, but only the poor guy next to you. With a litlle vison, the Chiefs future of the Chiefs in KC can be secured. However, if everyone in KC is as myopic as you are, I'd put my money on them moving. If not to LA, then to somewhere else. There are plent of markets growning faster than KC.

KC needs to take action in the next year to secure the long term commitment of the Chiefs to the KC metro areal. You can wait 2 years if you like to take risks, but no more.. If a commitment is made, everything will be fine. If people don't think the Chiefs will move, they will almost definitely end up in another city.

tk13
05-21-2005, 05:11 PM
Buy a clue. LA metro area is 17.5 million compared to KC metro of less than 2 M. That is a factor of 10, which is a big number. It is such a big number that people who are intrested in numbers have a special name for it. We call it an order of magnitude. It is like arguing that KC would have no chance against Springfiled, MO in supporting an NFL franchise. The idea is ludicrous. There will be a team in LA. That team will do far more for the NFL than the Chiefs. Embrace the idea. Now KC does not have to offer more to the NFL and the Chiefs than LA. Only more than New Orleans, San Diego, Oakland, etc. You don't have to out run the bear, but only the poor guy next to you. With a litlle vison, the Chiefs future of the Chiefs in KC can be secured. However, if everyone in KC is as myopic as you are, I'd put my money on them moving. If not to LA, then to somewhere else. There are plent of markets growning faster than KC.

KC needs to take action in the next year to secure the long term commitment of the Chiefs to the KC metro areal. You can wait 2 years if you like to take risks, but no more.. If a commitment is made, everything will be fine. If people don't think the Chiefs will move, they will almost definitely end up in another city.
That's my biggest fear. I don't think we're even the most likely team to move, and there's so much to gain by staying in Kansas City, but I can see the people of Kansas City saying "they sell out every game, they don't need anything and they aren't going anywhere, LA isn't better than us".... while LA builds a brand new stadium with 8 bazillion luxury boxes with the rich and famous lining up to pay outrageous money for them... if you were trying to run a business which one would you choose?

petegz28
05-21-2005, 05:21 PM
You want Johnson County $'s? Then spend them on the Roylas and the Chiefs and don't split the money between the teams and the "arts". It is htat simple.

dave0320
05-21-2005, 05:24 PM
You people kill me, it's all about money. It will be either L A, Johnson/Wyndott Cty or some where else. The Hunt's have an ego and want to be just like Dan Snyder. Clark Hunt would move this team in a New York second! Beware my Planet friends.

Spott
05-21-2005, 07:53 PM
Maybe they could add a HOF once they actually put a team in the Super Bowl. I think Mike(Clark) Hunt is just trying to get everyone in KC's emotions stirred up with the threat of moving to LA. I doubt LA would even want us being as they are all a bunch of stinking Raider fans anyways. I'm sure the Chiefs will get their bill passed and they will get their renovations paid for, although I think it should be the Chiefs responsibility to pay for it. Hell, we've been selling out that stadium for the past 15 years, including the stinkin' preseason games, but the greedy owners don't see it that way.

stevieray
05-21-2005, 09:41 PM
enjoy it while you can, this team is going to leave.

Tribal Warfare
05-22-2005, 12:03 AM
bump

BigRedChief
05-22-2005, 12:42 AM
Or the Irving Cowboys? :hmmm:

Or the Pontiac Lions? :hmmm:

SoCalBronco
05-22-2005, 12:54 AM
Now i hate the Chiefs but L.A. fans are the softests POS out there. This isnt a sports city. This is a bandwagon city. This isnt a really hardened sports town like a pittsburgh or boston or cleveland, all these fans here are pussies. I wouldnt wish that on anyone, including the Mullets. I dont think they are coming here, when the threat really becomes more apparent, you guys will fork out the dough, with all due respect, sports wise, the Chiefs are all you guys got, the fans arent going to let them just go. They will grab you by the balls and you will pay when push comes to shove, because the the Chiefs are the only real game in town.

Rausch
05-22-2005, 02:38 AM
But...but...that would take away funding for pork barrel projects in and near St. Louis.

And like it or not 3/4ths of this state thinks St.Louis first and " oh, yeah, the Chiefs are pretty good. Who? The Royals? Who are they?" second....

KC has always been the redheaded stepchild in Mo.

But I promise, when I finally snap, I'm like a mile and a half from the state legislature.

If you hear "Chiefs move" on Espn change to CNN or FOXNews quick....I'll wave at ya' over the dead bodies....

DaWolf
05-22-2005, 02:44 AM
The amount of cussing and bitching I do about the team not going to the Super Bowl is nothing compared to what I'll be like if they ever move.

As much as I want them to get the Lombardi,I want them to stay in KC,MO that much more.

With our luck as fans, they move and THEN immediately win a Super Bowl giving their new town all the glory while leaving us in the cold, sort of like the Ravens and Lambs...

tk13
05-22-2005, 02:52 AM
With our luck as fans, they move and THEN immediately win a Super Bowl giving their new town all the glory while leaving us in the cold, sort of like the Ravens and Lambs...
And even the Titans made it to a Super Bowl... that would be our luck.

Rausch
05-22-2005, 02:56 AM
With our luck as fans, they move and THEN immediately win a Super Bowl giving their new town all the glory while leaving us in the cold, sort of like the Ravens and Lambs...

Honestly, I'd have to shoot a few of those ****ers....

htismaqe
05-22-2005, 04:44 AM
Bullshit, there is no disparity in the NFL...

Go back to Econ 101 class, dude.

htismaqe
05-22-2005, 04:45 AM
The folks in Kansas City should pay attention cause if the CHIEFS are to move, Kansas City will never get a new football team.

I pulled out this quote because it bears repeating. I mentioned this the other day and nobody seemed to notice.

The NFL said after putting teams in Cleveland and Houston, that there will be NO MORE EXPANSION.

So let's say it one more time:

If the Chiefs go to LA, there will NEVER AGAIN be NFL football in Kansas City.

htismaqe
05-22-2005, 04:48 AM
No question I would rather have them move to Kansas over by the Speedway then in CA. With that being said I don't want them to move anywhere. They belong in KC not KC,KS.

Come on, man. That's just dumb. Kansas City is Kansas City, it doesn't matter if it's on the KS side or the MO side.

As someone who is not from the area, this is very easy to see. Give up on some of the "state pride" and do the right thing to save the team.

tomahawk kid
05-22-2005, 05:54 AM
Having lived in Jackson County before, I can tell you this:

It WILL take something like this (i.e. Clark threatening to move) BEFORE any of those nitwits in the JackCo gov't get off their a$$es and do something as a unified front.

The public pressure will demand that all of these retards get together and do something about a problem that has been festering for years.

It believe that we WILL see a renovated Arrowhead BEFORE a new stadium in KS, but Clark's threat is (unfortunately) a necessary step in getting the ball rolling.

Simplex3
05-22-2005, 08:25 AM
There has to be some way for Jackson county to become less influential in the dealings with Arrowhead and make it a more regional issue. There is enough money in Johnson Cty and the surrounding areas that support the Chiefs to effectively refurbish the stadium.
You work out a way for a professional group to run the stadium complex and JoCo to get back a percentage of the profits equal to the percentage of money we put in and this might fly. If you're looking for another f**king handout, forget it. There is no reason on Earth for JoCo to keep bailing Jackson's sorry ass out because those losers can't spend the profits from the stadium on the stadium.

Simplex3
05-22-2005, 08:32 AM
The folks in Kansas City should pay attention cause if the CHIEFS are to move, Kansas City will never get a new football team. And if they do, it will be a very long time and a new stadium would have to be built anyway. Folks should realize that the easiest thing to do is to renovate ARROWHEAD.
First, you don't think the Saints would be happy with 80k at every game? I can name three teams with about the same record over the last 5 years that would love to get that kind of attendence. If the Chiefs are dumb enough to leave they'll probably be forced to leave the name behind and KC will get an expansion team or a move. Cities that sell out every weekend don't lose the league.

As for renovating Arrowhead, I'm all for it. But the idiots that have been making the profit from it all these years are the ones that should pay for it. Jackson County and the Chiefs need to pay their own bar tab.

Simplex3
05-22-2005, 08:37 AM
They already said no they would not help with a vote last year... Hell I think the dempgraphic said only jackson and clay(True fans) were for it...
ROFL

Only "True fans" are willing to give up more tax dollars to a team they already spend an inordinate amount of their disposable income on?

PS, it's no suprise that the county that will GET all the money is for the tax.

Simplex3
05-22-2005, 08:41 AM
No question I would rather have them move to Kansas over by the Speedway then in CA. With that being said I don't want them to move anywhere. They belong in KC not KC,KS.
Yeah, it's much better going through this kind of drama all the time because Jackson County can't get it's s**t together than it would be for the team to move to a county that would have spent the profits from the stadium ON the stadium.

:shake:

htismaqe
05-22-2005, 08:47 AM
First, you don't think the Saints would be happy with 80k at every game? I can name three teams with about the same record over the last 5 years that would love to get that kind of attendence. If the Chiefs are dumb enough to leave they'll probably be forced to leave the name behind and KC will get an expansion team or a move. Cities that sell out every weekend don't lose the league.

As for renovating Arrowhead, I'm all for it. But the idiots that have been making the profit from it all these years are the ones that should pay for it. Jackson County and the Chiefs need to pay their own bar tab.

If the Chiefs leave, the only way KC would get another team is if someone moves here.

Expansion is over in the NFL.

Simplex3
05-22-2005, 08:47 AM
Who is screwing who over? How many season ticket holders live in Johnson County? How much of their taxes go to support the Chiefs and the Truman Sports Complex?
THE F**KING TRUMAN SPORTS COMPLEX TURNS A PROFIT EVERY YEAR. The fact that Jackson County can't make the thing work has nothting to do with profitability and EVERYTHING to do with mis-management. That is why more money won't help.

Valiant
05-22-2005, 09:32 AM
Go back to Econ 101 class, dude.


Who gives a **** if they have more luxury suites... They will not sell them in LA.. No one will go.. It is ****ing LA, they have failed multipe times now on teams...

htismaqe
05-22-2005, 09:44 AM
Who gives a **** if they have more luxury suites... They will not sell them in LA.. No one will go.. It is ****ing LA, they have failed multipe times now on teams...

Nobody said a word about whether or not luxury boxes would sell in LA.

You said there is no disparity in the NFL.

You are 100% wrong and now you're attempting to change the subject.

Mr. Laz
05-22-2005, 10:01 AM
If the Chiefs leave, the only way KC would get another team is if someone moves here.

Expansion is over in the NFL.

maybe in the short term ... but seriously doubt the NFL is done adding new teams completely.


give it 5 years and i bet they start talking about adding a couple more teams again.

Valiant
05-22-2005, 02:43 PM
Nobody said a word about whether or not luxury boxes would sell in LA.

You said there is no disparity in the NFL.

You are 100% wrong and now you're attempting to change the subject.


No, that is your basis on disparity is revenue... The Chiefs are usually top five in sales and merchandise sold.. The only thing we do not have is tons of luxury boxes... Just because one owner makes 120 million and year and the other makes 85 million does mean there is disparity...

Logical
05-22-2005, 03:22 PM
Who gives a **** if they have more luxury suites... They will not sell them in LA.. No one will go.. It is ****ing LA, they have failed multipe times now on teams...ROFL

Like they don't sell them in Staples for the Clippers and Lakers, like they don't sell 1000 dollar courtside seats for the Clippers and Lakers. Like they don't sell them at the Pond for the Mighty Ducks or for the Kings. Like games don't sellout for the Angels, Dodgers, Lakers, Clippers, Kings, Ducks, USC, UCLA yes this is a horrible sports town ROFL. They only need a new venue in a decent part of town and they will easily sell 200 luxury boxes and PSLs. Cannot do it in a decrepit Coliseum or a baseball stadium modified to hold football like the Rams had in Anaheim.

LA will support football with the right venue.

Logical
05-22-2005, 03:28 PM
No, that is your basis on disparity is revenue... The Chiefs are usually top five in sales and merchandise sold.. The only thing we do not have is tons of luxury boxes... Just because one owner makes 120 million and year and the other makes 85 million does mean there is disparity...

It isn't just one owner. It is Jerry Jones, Dan Snyder, Bears Owner, Houston's owner, Atlanta's owner, Philadelphia's owner, New Englands owner, it is going to be the Giants and Jets owners soon, it is happening all over the league. 150 to 200 luxury box stadiums where the owner gets to keep all the revenue from those boxes not to mention PSL money.

Nzoner
05-22-2005, 03:44 PM
With our luck as fans, they move and THEN immediately win a Super Bowl giving their new town all the glory while leaving us in the cold, sort of like the Ravens and Lambs...

The thought makes me ill,after having sunk all those dollars,time and energy into supporting this team over the years,I'd be alongside rausch and killing someone.

Valiant
05-22-2005, 03:48 PM
No what I am saying is the move to LA from here would be no significant increase in revenue.. They have failed with two nfl teams already.. San Diego and Oakland both have 100 and 125 luxury suites respectivly and cannot sell out their stadium.. Hell only San Fran sells out there stadium with frequency... IF they cannot sell out the stadium where is the increase... Are fans magically going to appear in LA to go the Chiefs games in the first few years??? LA is a great dream market, number 2 in the country.. There fan base for football is lacking...


I am for building a new stadium here, not ****ing renovating... The current one is fine in my opinion, but if we are going to spend 50-100 million renovating I would rather spend the 500-800 million building a new one...

htismaqe
05-22-2005, 04:10 PM
No, that is your basis on disparity is revenue... The Chiefs are usually top five in sales and merchandise sold.. The only thing we do not have is tons of luxury boxes... Just because one owner makes 120 million and year and the other makes 85 million does mean there is disparity...

What we have here is a clear example of the new math.

120M now equals 85M.


dis·par·i·ty ( P ) Pronunciation Key (d-spr-t)
n. pl. dis·par·i·ties
The condition or fact of being unequal, as in age, rank, or degree; difference: “narrow the economic disparities among regions and industries” (Courtenay Slater).
Unlikeness; incongruity.

Ari Chi3fs
05-22-2005, 04:31 PM
since Jackson County gets all the cash from parking, they should just charge $1 parking until they move to LA.

Valiant
05-22-2005, 06:02 PM
What we have here is a clear example of the new math.

120M now equals 85M.


No ass, my point is there is not a big gap in the numbers of what they are claiming to be disparity in the haves and have nots in profit...hell that is like comparing me owning 10cents to a quarter...


Chiefs tied for 16th in 2004 in revenue from food/luxury/seats/parking basically everything...washington number 1 at 245million

Seattle, St. Louis, Jacksonville, Cinncinati all ranked below us with thier new stadiums and multiple luxury boxes... I am not saying we do not need new stadium, just that the Chiefs moving to LA would make that much more money then here... LA lost two nfl teams because no one would go... KC has a huge fanbase, and IF the team would ever win a SuperBowl their revenue would jump even more...Hell 15million more would put us in the top 10 in revenue made...

IF you put a new stadium here compared to a new stadium with the Chiefs in LA... You would make more money in KC...

tk13
05-22-2005, 06:22 PM
IF you put a new stadium here compared to a new stadium with the Chiefs in LA... You would make more money in KC...

Ehhh, I think it'd be somewhat comparable. I think you'd still make more in LA, simply because everything is more expensive in California, it's not a cheap place to live. There are plenty of rich people who would be willing to fork over a ridiculous amount to sit out there 8 times a year. Everybody rips on LA, but the Lakers, Dodgers, etc. all seem to draw well at very, very expensive prices. I can't imagine that they'd have too much of a problem filling a stadium for 8 games a year if it was a nice new stadium.

And I don't think it's a huuuge disparity yet, but there is some. I'm not looking at revenue though, I'm looking at profit. You look at the Chiefs who made 24 million in profit in the last Forbes report, and the teams with the new stadiums like Washington, Denver, New England, etc... and they're making 40, 50, 60 million in profit. The only reason that bothers me just a little bit is that you see the true "big name" free agents out there and the signing bonuses are getting into the 20-30 million dollar range. We're awfully, awfully lucky that we have two top tier guys like Green and Holmes that accept playing with a $10 million tiered bonus instead of Michael Vick/Marvin Harrison type money, we haven't really dished out the big money like several other teams, Surtain was the biggest bonus we've ever given away.

What happens a few years down the road if Larry Johnson starts ripping off 1500 yard seasons with 20 TD's, and with his ego it comes time to pay him and he says he wants a $20+ million dollar signing bonus up front? Then Derrick Johnson or Jared Allen or somebody wants big money? We make $20-30 million in profit a year. Somebody like the Skins or Eagles could pay two or three guys that much money up front and not blink. We don't have a ton of luxury boxes, and people already complain ticket prices are too high... that extra profit has to come from somewhere.

htismaqe
05-22-2005, 06:40 PM
No ass, my point is there is not a big gap in the numbers of what they are claiming to be disparity in the haves and have nots in profit...hell that is like comparing me owning 10cents to a quarter...


Chiefs tied for 16th in 2004 in revenue from food/luxury/seats/parking basically everything...washington number 1 at 245million

Seattle, St. Louis, Jacksonville, Cinncinati all ranked below us with thier new stadiums and multiple luxury boxes... I am not saying we do not need new stadium, just that the Chiefs moving to LA would make that much more money then here... LA lost two nfl teams because no one would go... KC has a huge fanbase, and IF the team would ever win a SuperBowl their revenue would jump even more...Hell 15million more would put us in the top 10 in revenue made...

IF you put a new stadium here compared to a new stadium with the Chiefs in LA... You would make more money in KC...

Name calling is something that you resort to when you know you're losing an argument.

I don't disagree that a team will struggle in LA. I don't disagree that a team would probably make more money in KC.

But once again, this has NOTHING to do with LA. I didn't mention it, you didn't mention it.

You said simply there is not a disparity in the NFL. You are wrong. The Chiefs ranked 18th in revenue in 2004, and brought in almost $100M less than the Redskins. That is the very definition of disparity whether you like it or not.

http://www.theredzone.org/teamvalue.asp?Order=Rank

Valiant
05-22-2005, 08:59 PM
Name calling is something that you resort to when you know you're losing an argument.

I don't disagree that a team will struggle in LA. I don't disagree that a team would probably make more money in KC.

But once again, this has NOTHING to do with LA. I didn't mention it, you didn't mention it.

You said simply there is not a disparity in the NFL. You are wrong. The Chiefs ranked 18th in revenue in 2004, and brought in almost $100M less than the Redskins. That is the very definition of disparity whether you like it or not.

http://www.theredzone.org/teamvalue.asp?Order=Rank


And posting with a sarcastic remark when you do not agree with my opinion is any different??? Nice try kettle, you started being an ass and I called you on it...Nothing more, nothing less..

The Redskins also made 50 million more then the 4th ranked team the Eagles... Is there a disparity problem going on with the top 5???

Logical
05-22-2005, 09:11 PM
No ass, my point is there is not a big gap in the numbers of what they are claiming to be disparity in the haves and have nots in profit...hell that is like comparing me owning 10cents to a quarter...


Chiefs tied for 16th in 2004 in revenue from food/luxury/seats/parking basically everything...washington number 1 at 245million

Seattle, St. Louis, Jacksonville, Cinncinati all ranked below us with thier new stadiums and multiple luxury boxes... I am not saying we do not need new stadium, just that the Chiefs moving to LA would make that much more money then here... LA lost two nfl teams because no one would go... KC has a huge fanbase, and IF the team would ever win a SuperBowl their revenue would jump even more...Hell 15million more would put us in the top 10 in revenue made...

IF you put a new stadium here compared to a new stadium with the Chiefs in LA... You would make more money in KC...

This is just filled with ignorance. The Rams had good attendance throughout their history. They had a horrible facility and LA would not build them one so they moved. Raiders played in the Coliseum which is antiquated at best and in an absolutely horrid area. They still drew in the 70s, it is just that the Coliseum holds more thna 100K.

cdcox
05-22-2005, 09:29 PM
The Redskins also made 50 million more then the 4th ranked team the Eagles... Is there a disparity problem going on with the top 5???

Yes. It is no coincidence that the Skins are always one of the most active teams in free agency. Now, their moves have not exactly worked out, but if we focus on the issue, ability to attract top free agents, then yes, there is a disparity. Their income allows them to offer signing bonuses that other teams cannot. And this definitely allows them to attract more free agents, even when all teams are operating under the same salary cap as everyone else. The $ difference is definitely a disparity, and the Chiefs are moving in the wrong direction down the list. The disparity will only get worse with time. A stadium with high luxury box revenues would move the Chiefs back into the top 10 in terms of revenue. At that level, they can offer top signing bonuses to free agents on a sustained basis, rather than standing pat every other year like we are doing now.

BIG_DADDY
05-22-2005, 10:19 PM
Never happen, that would be like moving the Packers.

BigRedChief
05-22-2005, 10:30 PM
So let's say it one more time:

If the Chiefs go to LA, there will NEVER AGAIN be NFL football in Kansas City.
I'll say it one more time..............If the Chiefs leave the KC metro area will get another team ala the Browns.

We are a great NFL city. Why would they not want one here?

Clevland had 15 years of votes to get a new stadium before Modell moved them. KC has had 6 months and one vote. And that vote was tied into and blended with an "Arts" fund. Bad mistake.

We are a long way from nuclear winter.

I'm sure the populace will pony up the money in the long run.

King_Chief_Fan
05-23-2005, 06:04 AM
How stupid of all of us to let ourselves be held captive. I don't give a crap if they move the team.......keep the name here. We will get another team. They have made us the most gullable and naive bunch of people in the NFL. Empty promises is all we hear. We have seen the SB twice.....won it once in 40 years. Playoffs have been almost extinct and they want us to be held accountable? They can kiss my Arse. I am tired of being made a fool of. I would not commit to anything until this team puts a winner on the field. If they don't start being more competitive, maybe we will kick them out of here and get a new team. Threaten to move is horse poop.

KCWolfman
05-23-2005, 06:55 AM
How stupid of all of us to let ourselves be held captive. I don't give a crap if they move the team.......keep the name here. We will get another team. They have made us the most gullable and naive bunch of people in the NFL. Empty promises is all we hear. We have seen the SB twice.....won it once in 40 years. Playoffs have been almost extinct and they want us to be held accountable? They can kiss my Arse. I am tired of being made a fool of. I would not commit to anything until this team puts a winner on the field. If they don't start being more competitive, maybe we will kick them out of here and get a new team. Threaten to move is horse poop.
Clark didn't threaten to move, he stated if the city defaulted on the lease, they would move. Which is sane and logical. Have you seen the pics of the electrical and plumbing in the building? It is horrid. If your landlord does not take care of the home, why should you be expected to live there?

The city has made an agreement and hasn't abided. The supposed distribution of earlier taxes was to take care of upkeep for years to come. And as usual KC and Jackson Co. fall short when it comes to fiscal responsibility.

Also note, I would rather pay a full penny in sales tax (screw the 1/8 of a cent tax) than go to another city a couple of times a year to see them play - it would be a great deal cheaper.

DeepSouth
05-23-2005, 07:06 AM
How stupid of all of us to let ourselves be held captive. I don't give a crap if they move the team.......keep the name here. We will get another team.
There is a good chance the city could get another team if the Chiefs left. However, why go through the BS.

The Cardinals left St. Louis over stadium issues. To get another team, St. Louis had to build another stadium.

Cleveland lost their team over stadium issues. To get another team, the city had to build a new stadium.

If Kansas City wants an NFL team, why not fork up the money to renovate Arrowhead versus going through several years without a team and then end up having to come up with the money in the end anyway.

If the Chiefs do move, I hope they end up somewhere on the Gulf Coast.

htismaqe
05-23-2005, 07:34 AM
And posting with a sarcastic remark when you do not agree with my opinion is any different??? Nice try kettle, you started being an ass and I called you on it...Nothing more, nothing less..

The Redskins also made 50 million more then the 4th ranked team the Eagles... Is there a disparity problem going on with the top 5???

Did I ever say the disparity was a problem? Did you?

You said there was NO disparity. Now you're saying there is a disparity between the Redskins and Eagles.

I rest my case.

TEX
05-23-2005, 08:10 AM
How stupid of all of us to let ourselves be held captive. I don't give a crap if they move the team.......keep the name here. We will get another team. They have made us the most gullable and naive bunch of people in the NFL. Empty promises is all we hear. We have seen the SB twice.....won it once in 40 years. Playoffs have been almost extinct and they want us to be held accountable? They can kiss my Arse. I am tired of being made a fool of. I would not commit to anything until this team puts a winner on the field. If they don't start being more competitive, maybe we will kick them out of here and get a new team. Threaten to move is horse poop.

Get another team? I doubt it. And if so, it will be a very long time. Are you willing to wait for something that there is a very good chance of never happening rather than keeping the team where is for about a half penny on the dollar? :hmmm:

cdcox
05-23-2005, 08:35 AM
What kills me is that every other NFL city seems to recognize the need to build a new stadium for their team about every 30 years. It is the price of admission to having an NFL team. The Chiefs aren't even asking for that; only up grades to Arrowhead. Yet there are a few on this board who think that this expectation should not apply to KC.

Kansas City is a great place, but it is not magical. They have better than average fans when the team is having success, but the '70s and '80s proved that like most other cities, attendance is not immune from the win-loss column. The advantage of good fans is largely offset by the fact that KC is a small market. To remain financially viable, the Chiefs need to field a competitive team. To do that while maintaing the profitability of the team, they need the higher revenue that would come from an improved stadium to fund signing bonuses. If the city is unable to supply the needed stadium, the team will not be able to maintain the FA talent influx, on-field performance will suffer, and the stands will be empty.

So even if the Hunt's decided to stay in Arrowhead in its current condition, this would only result in poorer on-field performance, and put the team's future in KC in deeper jeopardy.

BigRedChief
05-23-2005, 08:47 AM
You have some hard core fans on here who voted against Bi-State 2. If push comes to shove they will vote for anything to keep the Chiefs. But the residents of Jackson County that don't even care about the Chiefs must vote yes for a vote to pass because its good for the community. Thats the only way a sales tax passes.

Edubs
05-23-2005, 09:13 AM
If they move to Kansas, they don't have to stop calling themselves the Kansas City Chiefs. There are other NFL teams that have stadiums in different cities than their name indicates.

Ever hear of the New Jersey Giants and the New Jersey Jets?


the Cowboys new place will not actually be in DALLAS!

RedNFeisty
05-23-2005, 09:28 AM
the Cowboys new place will not actually be in DALLAS!

The Cowboy's have never been in Dallas, they are in Irving.

TEX
05-23-2005, 09:55 AM
the Cowboys new place will not actually be in DALLAS!


Well, their current one isn't either as it's in Irving. Still, I do unnderstand your point.

Simplex3
05-23-2005, 09:56 AM
LA will support football with the right venue.
Read:

"The pretty people will come to a pretty building."

Simplex3
05-23-2005, 10:06 AM
Get another team? I doubt it. And if so, it will be a very long time. Are you willing to wait for something that there is a very good chance of never happening rather than keeping the team where is for about a half penny on the dollar? :hmmm:
How many times over are you only paying "about a half penny on the dollar"? Your effective tax rate is probably at or above 40% of your income, but you're perfectly happy to give another s**t pot of money to Jackson County so they can piss it away on upgrades done at twice the price by their buddies and donors who run construction companies. Doesn't make much sense to me.

Calcountry
05-23-2005, 10:12 AM
Well, they could keep it and make it stand for the "Kansas Chiefs :hmmm: Now what would look STUPID is LA inside the Arrowhead... :shake:Tennesee didn't keep the name "Oilers".

:shake:

Simplex3
05-23-2005, 10:15 AM
Here's my plan. As far as I can tell nobody gets "hurt".


1. Give Arrowhead to the Chiefs, Give Kaufman to the Royals. Outright. Hand them the freaking deeds. Let them figure out how they're going to share the parking lots. They'll come up with a way. Now they can do whatever they want with the stadium as far as upgrades or whatever.

2. As a requirement for #1 both teams must sign an agreement to stay in the metro area for X number of years.

3. Raise taxes in Jackson County. This will cover the loss of revenues from the stadium profits. Of course if you ask Jackson County there are no profits, so this step may be unnecessary.

Viola, you're done. Jackson County residents are paying more in taxes, which they seem to want to do anyway. The Chiefs would be responsible for doing DIY work on their own house. We all know how likely you are to do improvements on property you rent vs. property you OWN. The Chiefs are instantly worth more because they suddenly own a building.

And the only people that lose anything are the bribed politicians and their cronies. it's win/win/win.

Brock
05-23-2005, 10:17 AM
And the only people that lose anything are the bribed politicians and their cronies. it's win/win/win.

The fatal flaw.

KCN
05-23-2005, 10:21 AM
Whatever keeps the team from moving to LA, build the stadium in KCK, Olathe or De Soto for all I care. Keep them in the metro. They of course would keep the name Kansas City Chiefs.... I don't recall hearing of the Opa Locka Dolphins.

IMO it doesn't matter anyway. Put the tax increase on the November ballot. Use your scare tactics threatening to leave if it doesn't pass and people will vote for it.

KCN
05-23-2005, 10:24 AM
BTW I find it ironic how the article posted in post #25 of this thread almost mirrors an article in the KC Star several months ago regarding the Orlando Magic. Sucks when the shoe is on the other foot.

TEX
05-23-2005, 10:25 AM
Tennesee didn't keep the name "Oilers".

:shake:

No. And neither did the city of Houston but that's not what my response was in reference to. The topic was that some teams take on the name of the closest big city rather tan go by the name where their stadium resides. My point was the Dallas Cowboys play their games in Irving Texas, rather than Dallas, but they are known world-wide as the Dallas Cowboys.

BigRedChief
05-23-2005, 10:25 AM
Here's my plan. As far as I can tell nobody gets "hurt".


1. Give Arrowhead to the Chiefs, Give Kaufman to the Royals. Outright. Hand them the freaking deeds. Let them figure out how they're going to share the parking lots. They'll come up with a way. Now they can do whatever they want with the stadium as far as upgrades or whatever.

2. As a requirement for #1 both teams must sign an agreement to stay in the metro area for X number of years.

3. Raise taxes in Jackson County. This will cover the loss of revenues from the stadium profits. Of course if you ask Jackson County there are no profits, so this step may be unnecessary.

Viola, you're done. Jackson County residents are paying more in taxes, which they seem to want to do anyway. The Chiefs would be responsible for doing DIY work on their own house. We all know how likely you are to do improvements on property you rent vs. property you OWN. The Chiefs are instantly worth more because they suddenly own a building.

And the only people that lose anything are the bribed politicians and their cronies. it's win/win/win.

Won't work and supposely the Chiefs were offered the whole complex to theirselfs. Royals stadium, arrowhead and the land. They build the Royals a downtown baseball stadium and give the truman sports complex to the Chiefs. Chiefs have concerts, events at the "K" to bring in funds to pay for refurbishing Arrowhead. Chiefs said thanks but no thanks.

Calcountry
05-23-2005, 10:30 AM
No. And neither did the city of Houston but that's not what my response was in reference to. The topic was that some teams take on the name of the closest big city rather tan go by the name where their stadium resides. My point was the Dallas Cowboys play their games in Irving Texas, rather than Dallas, but they are known world-wide as the Dallas Cowboys.That might be O.K. if the Chiefs move to Overland Park or KC K, but what if they move to San Antonio?

Simplex3
05-23-2005, 10:31 AM
Won't work and supposely the Chiefs were offered the whole complex to theirselfs. Royals stadium, arrowhead and the land. They build the Royals a downtown baseball stadium and give the truman sports complex to the Chiefs. Chiefs have concerts, events at the "K" to bring in funds to pay for refurbishing Arrowhead. Chiefs said thanks but no thanks.
Yeah, they know full well the general electorate will puss out and write them a fat ass check with no assurances. The Chiefs couldn't care less that you're going to pay twice what you should due to govt. incompetence and overspending.

Hence my argument. Call their bluff. If people quit spending their disposable income on the Chiefs they'd spend it somewhere else in KC. We woudn't take some gigantic economic hit like the Chiefs would like you to think.

Dr. Van Halen
05-23-2005, 10:47 AM
Hence my argument. Call their bluff. If people quit spending their disposable income on the Chiefs they'd spend it somewhere else in KC. We woudn't take some gigantic economic hit like the Chiefs would like you to think.

Sports/concert events bring people in from out of town. They spend money. The impact wouldn't be gigantic, but there are many who would feel it.

Also, it's fine for you in your plan to say that the Chiefs will have to pay for their own improvements, but what about the improvements the state/county was to be doing all of this time?

KC has a contractual obligation to maintain Arrowhead. They are not honoring the contract.

BigRedChief
05-23-2005, 10:52 AM
Sports/concert events bring people in from out of town. They spend money. The impact wouldn't be gigantic, but there are many who would feel it.

Also, it's fine for you in your plan to say that the Chiefs will have to pay for their own improvements, but what about the improvements the state/county was to be doing all of this time?

KC has a contractual obligation to maintain Arrowhead. They are not honoring the contract.

When we voted to extend the leases and raise our taxes there was suppose to be enough money to honor the leases.


Noone has explained why there is a shortage. What happened?

Simplex3
05-23-2005, 10:57 AM
When we voted to extend the leases and raise our taxes there was suppose to be enough money to honor the leases.


Noone has explained why there is a shortage. What happened?
Damn straight. They make a profit on the stadiums. Where does that money go? They've raised taxes for the stadiums. Where has that money gone?

I don't want to see the Chiefs leave, but sending good money after bad is even less appealing. Until somebody straightens out the mess that is Jackson County there is no point in giving them MORE money so they can waste it too.

Simplex3
05-23-2005, 11:01 AM
Sports/concert events bring people in from out of town. They spend money. The impact wouldn't be gigantic, but there are many who would feel it.

Also, it's fine for you in your plan to say that the Chiefs will have to pay for their own improvements, but what about the improvements the state/county was to be doing all of this time?

KC has a contractual obligation to maintain Arrowhead. They are not honoring the contract.
Agreed, Jackson County is f**ked. So why on Earth would I send more money to them?

Also, there are many, many economists that disagree strongly with the belief that losing the sports team impacts the economy on any significant scale. As for the concerts and whatnot: You think the Chiefs would put the wheels back on Arrowhead, hook it up to the '82 Ford and take it to CA with them? That venue would still exist, it would just be minus 8 events a year. Don't forget how little football is actually played.

bogie
05-23-2005, 12:17 PM
I hope the team stays in KC, MO. However, LA will get a team eventually, therefore if the Chiefs do move, I hope they move to LA. Sorry, I'm being selfish.

BigRedChief
05-23-2005, 12:29 PM
I hope the team stays in KC, MO. However, LA will get a team eventually, therefore if the Chiefs do move, I hope they move to LA. Sorry, I'm being selfish.

:cuss: Let's get medievel on him. Let's stone him to death. or not.:hmmm:

Hey, if you don't take care of business at home youre pardner will seek somneone else to give them what they want.

Calcountry
05-23-2005, 12:33 PM
I hope the team stays in KC, MO. However, LA will get a team eventually, therefore if the Chiefs do move, I hope they move to LA. Sorry, I'm being selfish.But they would cease to be the Chiefs, thats a for sure thing.

They would be some ghey ass thing like the LA sunshines.

bogie
05-23-2005, 12:49 PM
I suspect that if the Chiefs can put together a successful season, the Chiefs will stay in MO. At least I hope so. If not I'll welcome them here. Hey, I'm a Missouri boy at heart but people are wrong about LA supporting their sports out hear. We will build an excellent stadium and we will fill it. Unfortunately, there are bandwagon fans everywhere. I can't tell you how many times I heard announcers talk about Arrowhead emptying out during the 4th quarter when we were losing. Sounds like LA isn't the only place with bandwagoners. Hell, even this BB is full of "I'm getting rid of my season passes and not going to any games until Carl...blah, blah, blah." If the Chiefs move to LA I'll be at every game and I'll stay to the end. Traffic be dambed!

KChiefs1
05-23-2005, 12:58 PM
I suspect that if the Chiefs can put together a successful season, the Chiefs will stay in MO.

I don't think the Chiefs being successful has anything to do with this subject...it's all about the shape that Arrowhead Stadium has become. I can guarantee you that Hunt will be making lots of $$$$$ this year & next year even if the Chiefs collapse. The question is will the lease be broken & if it is what do the Hunts do? I know LA will be offering a lot of $$$$$ to any team willing to move.

Calcountry
05-23-2005, 02:34 PM
I suspect that if the Chiefs can put together a successful season, the Chiefs will stay in MO. At least I hope so. If not I'll welcome them here. Hey, I'm a Missouri boy at heart but people are wrong about LA supporting their sports out hear. We will build an excellent stadium and we will fill it. Unfortunately, there are bandwagon fans everywhere. I can't tell you how many times I heard announcers talk about Arrowhead emptying out during the 4th quarter when we were losing. Sounds like LA isn't the only place with bandwagoners. Hell, even this BB is full of "I'm getting rid of my season passes and not going to any games until Carl...blah, blah, blah." If the Chiefs move to LA I'll be at every game and I'll stay to the end. Traffic be dambed!ROFL

Logical
05-23-2005, 02:42 PM
Read:

"The pretty people will come to a pretty building."

Not many fans, including many KC fans would go to the neighborhood where the Coliseum sets if there was even a location that bad in KC.

BigRedChief
05-23-2005, 02:44 PM
Hell, even this BB is full of "I'm getting rid of my season passes and not going to any games until Carl...blah, blah, blah."

Yeah thats what they post but when it comes time to renew they do. I tried to get people to sell me their lower bowl tickets and I had one offer of 5K a seat for the rights. So just giving up their tickets aint happening no matter what they post on here.

Simplex3
05-23-2005, 02:48 PM
Not many fans, including many KC fans would go to the neighborhood where the Coliseum sets if there was even a location that bad in KC.
Oh, I'm not disagreeing or even admonishing it. Just boiling it down to the lowest common denominator.

Cochise
05-23-2005, 02:51 PM
They aren't leaving KC you friggin chicken littles. Worst case, they build a new stadium on the KS side or something.

BigRedChief
05-23-2005, 02:58 PM
They aren't leaving KC you friggin chicken littles. Worst case, they build a new stadium on the KS side or something.

Whos chicken little? I don't think anyone is saying they are leaving tommorrow and you KC planeteers are doing nothing.

Cochise
05-23-2005, 03:03 PM
Whos chicken little? I don't think anyone is saying they are leaving tommorrow and you KC planeteers are doing nothing.

Why in the hell would they move from Kansas City, where they sell out every game for the past 10-15 years, to L.A. who's already run two teams out of town in the past 10 years or so?

And, thank you for letting me know I am doing nothing. I guess the money I paid toward a season ticket and the fact that I have missed very few home games over the past 5 years or so doesn't count for anything. I even voted for the bi-state stadium funding measure that failed miserably last november. I would have wagered that I had done more for the organization than you, but I guess I am sadly mistaken.

So what should I do to help, oh greatest of all fans you? Should I get two tickets instead of one? Am I not buying enough $6 bratwursts at the game? Should I offer to pay $40 to park instead of $20? Double the amount of merchandise I own? Just mail Carl my life savings? How are you helping the team? I want to be just like you.

dirk digler
05-23-2005, 03:07 PM
Come on, man. That's just dumb. Kansas City is Kansas City, it doesn't matter if it's on the KS side or the MO side.

As someone who is not from the area, this is very easy to see. Give up on some of the "state pride" and do the right thing to save the team.

Like I said Parker, if it came down to it I would rather them move to KS or anywhere in the metro area than move to CA.

BigRedChief
05-23-2005, 03:07 PM
Why in the hell would they move from Kansas City, where they sell out every game for the past 10-15 years, to L.A. who's already run two teams out of town in the past 10 years or so?

And, thank you for letting me know I am doing nothing. I guess the money I paid toward a season ticket and the fact that I have missed very few home games over the past 5 years or so doesn't count for anything. I even voted for the bi-state stadium funding measure that failed miserably last november. I would have wagered that I had done more for the organization than you, but I guess I am sadly mistaken.

So what should I do to help, oh greatest of all fans you? Should I get two tickets instead of one? Am I not buying enough $6 bratwursts at the game? Should I offer to pay $40 to park instead of $20? Double the amount of merchandise I own? Just mail Carl my life savings? How are you helping the team? I want to be just like you.

JEEEZZZZ dude take a pill. STFU What did I say?

Quote: <HR SIZE=1>Originally Posted by BigRedChief
Whos chicken little? I don't think anyone is saying they are leaving tommorrow and you KC planeteers are doing nothing. <HR SIZE=1>

I was saying that no one was saying what you are accusing me of saying. Are you insane? Dyslexic? Whats up?:shake:

Logical
05-23-2005, 03:11 PM
Here's my plan. As far as I can tell nobody gets "hurt".


1. Give Arrowhead to the Chiefs, Give Kaufman to the Royals. Outright. Hand them the freaking deeds. Let them figure out how they're going to share the parking lots. They'll come up with a way. Now they can do whatever they want with the stadium as far as upgrades or whatever.

2. As a requirement for #1 both teams must sign an agreement to stay in the metro area for X number of years.

3. Raise taxes in Jackson County. This will cover the loss of revenues from the stadium profits. Of course if you ask Jackson County there are no profits, so this step may be unnecessary.

Viola, you're done. Jackson County residents are paying more in taxes, which they seem to want to do anyway. The Chiefs would be responsible for doing DIY work on their own house. We all know how likely you are to do improvements on property you rent vs. property you OWN. The Chiefs are instantly worth more because they suddenly own a building.

And the only people that lose anything are the bribed politicians and their cronies. it's win/win/win.

How does that resolve the lack of luxury boxes. This is IMO the biggest issue of all the issues and resolution if you remodel Arrowhead means shutting Arrowhead down for a year or two. So I guess the Chiefs would have to go play in St. Louis no other adequate venues are nearby.

dirk digler
05-23-2005, 03:14 PM
How does that resolve the lack of luxury boxes. This is IMO the biggest issue of all the issues and resolution if you remodel Arrowhead means shutting Arrowhead down for a year or two. So I guess the Chiefs would have to go play in St. Louis no other adequate venues are nearby.

If that is the case they just need to build a new stadium and get it over with. They can build a new stadium fairly quickly.

Calcountry
05-23-2005, 04:41 PM
If that is the case they just need to build a new stadium and get it over with. They can build a new stadium fairly quickly.While they continue to play in the old. That is what they are shooting for I believe.

If they do, would you all favor a dome?

cdcox
05-23-2005, 04:54 PM
If they do, would you all favor a dome?

Football should be played outdoors on grass. In a blizzard or hurricane, if it can be arranged.

Logical
05-23-2005, 05:01 PM
While they continue to play in the old. That is what they are shooting for I believe.

If they do, would you all favor a dome?

A roof that can be closed would be fine, Truman Sports Complex was supposed to have that. If KC wants NCAA finals and other major events, a roof that closes would be a huge plus.

Cochise
05-23-2005, 05:11 PM
Build something state of the art but preserve the look and feel of Arrowhead. Build a lookalike of the current arrowhead with a roof like Reliant Stadium has, with attention paid to preserve the acoustics of the current building.

dirk digler
05-23-2005, 05:49 PM
No Dome but definitely a roof like Reliant Stadium has. Totally agree with Cochise, we need to preserve the Arrowhead experience and noise.

ENDelt260
05-23-2005, 05:52 PM
F*ck a roof of any sort.

htismaqe
05-23-2005, 07:12 PM
If that is the case they just need to build a new stadium and get it over with. They can build a new stadium fairly quickly.

I agree.

Logical
05-23-2005, 07:55 PM
F*ck a roof of any sort.
Sounds like the job for a giant prick.







OK I set it up.

Cochise
05-23-2005, 08:05 PM
JEEEZZZZ dude take a pill. STFU What did I say?

I was saying that no one was saying what you are accusing me of saying. Are you insane? Dyslexic? Whats up?:shake:

Thanks for the neg, luckily I got some positives on the post that are more than enough to balance it out ROFL

BigRedChief
05-23-2005, 08:08 PM
Thanks for the neg, luckily I got some positives on the post that are more than enough to balance it out ROFL

So you are admitting to being insane but its okay beacause you have rep?