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Fried Meat Ball!
06-20-2005, 05:27 AM
Losing Battle leaves Chiefs short at corner

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/11937804.htm

Suitcases rolled out of Arrowhead Stadium on Sunday, veterans said their goodbyes, and coach Dick Vermeil gave his speech about how nobody wants to be the guy who loses his job because he spent a month on the couch with a bag of chips.

Summer vacation officially started late Sunday with the end of minicamp, but the mood wasn’t exactly festive. The Chiefs are now looking for a starting cornerback.

Vermeil said cornerback Julian Battle is out for the season because of a torn Achilles’ tendon. Battle, who had been elevated to the first team earlier this month, suffered the injury in Saturday’s workout and will undergo surgery on his left heel.

Battle’s injury leaves a big hole, which deepens with the uncertainty of Eric Warfield’s status. Warfield, the Chiefs’ best cornerback in 2004, was demoted to the second team in anticipation of a suspension from the NFL for violating the league’s substance-abuse policy.

He could miss as many as four games, and it could come at the start of the season, when the Chiefs open with the New York Jets, Oakland Raiders and Denver Broncos.

“We’re not going to panic,” Vermeil said. “I’m more concerned about (Battle) because he’s been here for two years, and he was just starting to find out what it takes to be a professional football player. It’s part of the game. It’s the rotten part of the game.”

Just a few days ago, Vermeil raved about the progress of the defense, which was overhauled with some key offseason acquisitions. One free agent the Chiefs took a pass on last spring was cornerback Ty Law.

Law is still on the market, but Vermeil said it was unclear whether the Chiefs would do any more defensive shopping. Money, undoubtedly, is the biggest issue. Both Vermeil and president/general manager Carl Peterson have said that the Chiefs used up most of their cap space on free agents and trades. On Saturday, they added veteran wide receiver Freddie Mitchell with a one-year contract that was believed to be at the league minimum.

“We’ll look,” Vermeil said. “But I don’t know what’s out there — and then we’ll also more deeply evaluate those young people we have. But we have time.”

If Warfield is suspended, Vermeil said veteran cornerback Dexter McCleon would likely be the starter who would pair with Pro Bowler Patrick Surtain. But McCleon hasn’t participated in offseason workouts because of injury, and the Chiefs had hoped to leave him at nickel back.

The backups have little or no experience. Second-year cornerback Benny Sapp played in 15 games last year, but the Chiefs’ two other possibilities – Justin Perkins and Alphonso Hodge – are rookies.

William Bartee, who moved from cornerback to safety, apparently isn’t an option, either. Vermeil said Bartee is doing such a good job at safety that he’d “hate to screw him up.”

“Dexter McCleon will be healthy and ready to go,” Vermeil said. “And we’ve got some other kids who are doing a good job. But all of that will be better evaluated and determined once we get to camp.”

Training camp starts July 28 in River Falls, Wis. Before Battle’s injury — and the uncertainty surrounding Warfield — Vermeil said he was confident the Chiefs filled all of their defensive needs in the offseason. Now he’ll wait until River Falls to see.

ZootedGranny
06-20-2005, 05:55 AM
You think Surtain was a lock down corner before coming to KC, he'll look like the best ever CB to grace the field once teams decide to do nothing but throw at McCleon. I have visions of the Jags game, where Dexter was beaten ragged all over the field.

As much as I like Sapp, I don't see him being an effective #2, just like I didn't see Battle being a good #2 yet. The rest of the squad doesn't give me much hope either...hopefully the Chiefs bring somebody in.

Fried Meat Ball!
06-20-2005, 06:03 AM
I kinda think we'll be forced to bring somebody in.

trndobrd
06-20-2005, 07:48 AM
Freddie Mitchell said he could play at corner....

JimNasium
06-20-2005, 07:53 AM
Okay, so if Bartee is doing a good job at safety I'm working under the assumption that Woods is a goner. Does Jerome have any trade value?

KChiefs1
06-20-2005, 07:58 AM
If nothing gets done before the season starts I think the Chiefs are looking at an 0-4 start....they need to find a way to get Law signed to a contract the Chiefs & Law/Poston's can live with this year & give him the bigger contract next season when the Chiefs will have more money available to them.

jspchief
06-20-2005, 08:13 AM
If nothing gets done before the season starts I think the Chiefs are looking at an 0-4 start....they need to find a way to get Law signed to a contract the Chiefs & Law/Poston's can live with this year & give him the bigger contract next season when the Chiefs will have more money available to them.

How can you write off the first four games based on us not having Warfield? This is still a team that has an offense that can beat any team on any given day. Plus, now we have added talent at CB, LB, and Safety.

We add 3 former pro-bowlers on D, but not having Warfield is going to hurt this team that much? Give me a break. Chances are, this D will still be better than we were last year, and then will improve that much more when #44 returns.

KChiefs1
06-20-2005, 08:16 AM
Doesn't matter how much you have improved the other positions if Pennington, Collins, Plummer & McNabb can just dropback & throw at McCleon all day....didn't you watch the game vs Jax last year?

Deberg_1990
06-20-2005, 08:18 AM
Its not like this was some big loss. What did Battle do for us the past 2 years anyways??? Nothing. Bring on Ty Law!

htismaqe
06-20-2005, 08:25 AM
Doesn't matter how much you have improved the other positions if Pennington, Collins, Plummer & McNabb can just dropback & throw at McCleon all day....didn't you watch the game vs Jax last year?

That's bullshit. No ONE player can make a team utterly beatable. Sorry.

We may not go 4-0 with McCleon starting, but he alone won't make us 0-4.

jspchief
06-20-2005, 08:26 AM
Doesn't matter how much you have improved the other positions if Pennington, Collins, Plummer & McNabb can just dropback & throw at McCleon all day....didn't you watch the game vs Jax last year?Yes, I watched it. I also watched games against Baltimore, Atlanta, Denver, and Indy (the second best offense in the league). We won all of those games. Last year's team probably wouldn't have gone 0-4 against this schedule, and there's no reason to believe this year's team won't be better.

Okay, so they pick on McCleon. Green is going to pick on all of their CBs, Safeties, and LBs. Holmes and Johnson are going to pick on their D-line, LBs, and Safeties.

Jeezuz. How quickly we forget that we have an offense that has won a lot of games in spite of the defense.

Is the team better with Warfield on the field? Of course. Are they chopped liver with him off the field? No way. I think it's absurd to assume we don't have a chance, with the best offense in the league over the last three years.

Ultra Peanut
06-20-2005, 08:29 AM
"In comedy circles, there’s a famous Saget story about the night his first daughter was born. After a very difficult birth, during which Sherri Saget and her baby almost died, a friend showed up to find Mr. Saget looking utterly destroyed, unshaven, unrecognizable, but holding his newborn.

'Oh my God, Bob, she’s beautiful,' the friend said.

'For a dollar, you can finger her,' Mr. Saget replied."

jAZ
06-20-2005, 08:30 AM
I kinda think we'll be forced to bring somebody in.
If this move forces us to bring in another vet like Law or Taylor... it might be a blessing in disguise.

Can you imagine our CB's for the final 12 games of the year with Warfiled as our nickle CB????

That's very nice to think about.

htismaqe
06-20-2005, 08:31 AM
Yes, I watched it. I also watched games against Baltimore, Atlanta, Denver, and Indy (the second best offense in the league). We won all of those games. Last year's team probably wouldn't have gone 0-4 against this schedule, and there's no reason to believe this year's team won't be better.

Okay, so they pick on McCleon. Green is going to pick on all of their CBs, Safeties, and LBs. Holmes and Johnson are going to pick on their D-line, LBs, and Safeties.

Jeezuz. How quickly we forget that we have an offense that has won a lot of games in spite of the defense.

Is the team better with Warfield on the field? Of course. Are they chopped liver with him off the field? No way. I think it's absurd to assume we don't have a chance, with the best offense in the league over the last three years.

:bravo:

TEX
06-20-2005, 08:31 AM
I really don't understand why Tags the Tard hasn't let the CHIEFS know the deal with Warfield yet. It would really help if the CHIEFS knew the deal so they could take the necessary measures to deal with ther issue. :shake:

KChiefs1
06-20-2005, 08:33 AM
I can't wait to hear the whining about how Carl didn't sign Law after McCleon gets toasted all over the field vs the Jets on opening day.

ENDelt260
06-20-2005, 08:33 AM
"In comedy circles, there’s a famous Saget story about the night his first daughter was born. After a very difficult birth, during which Sherri Saget and her baby almost died, a friend showed up to find Mr. Saget looking utterly destroyed, unshaven, unrecognizable, but holding his newborn.

'Oh my God, Bob, she’s beautiful,' the friend said.

'For a dollar, you can finger her,' Mr. Saget replied."

ROFL

jspchief
06-20-2005, 08:35 AM
I can't wait to hear the whining about how Carl didn't sign Law after McCleon gets toasted all over the field vs the Jets on opening day.You're f*cking pathetic. You "can't wait" to see our team lose, just to prove that you were right? So what NFL team do you root for?

htismaqe
06-20-2005, 08:49 AM
You're f*cking pathetic. You "can't wait" to see our team lose, just to prove that you were right? So what NFL team do you root for?

Yep.

shaneo69
06-20-2005, 09:56 AM
You're f*cking pathetic. You "can't wait" to see our team lose, just to prove that you were right? So what NFL team do you root for?

jsp, you're being way too harsh. Before the draft/free agency, most people here were saying that we needed to get two starting-caliber CB's in case Warfield got suspended. We got 1. Maybe Hodge can step up, but we all know that McCleon is not a starter in this scheme.

For a team that has a realistic chance at home-field advantage in the playoffs, anything other than a 4-0 or 3-1 start is a killer. I still remember the announcers for the KC-Jax game talking about how when they interviewed the Jax players and coaches during the week and mentioned the possibility of picking on McCleon, they all just smiled.

I'm surprised you mentioned that it doesn't matter if our defense gives up some points in the first four games because our offense can bail them out. Well, that hasn't really worked the past four years.

And I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure KCHIEFS1 isn't going to be rooting for the Chiefs to lose just to prove his point.

KChiefs1
06-20-2005, 10:12 AM
And I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure KCHIEFS1 isn't going to be rooting for the Chiefs to lose just to prove his point.

Thanks shaneo69!

I'm just pointing out the old axiom that a team is only as strong as it's weakest link & I can guarantee you that other teams won't even be looking to Surtain's side of the field the first four games when they can be throwing at McCleon's side of the field. Sure the "overall" team defense has been improved but when you have a CB on an island who can be exploited then it weakens your defense. I don't think you'll see Gun to the full attack mode with McCleon manning up on the opponents WR. Gun will have to compensate for McCleon & that weakens the defense.

Yeah I'm on this board talking about the Chiefs in June because I'm rooting for them to lose...yeah I attended the sneak preview because I want them to lose. Let's get real here okay? :rolleyes:

ChiefsOne
06-20-2005, 10:30 AM
Losing Battle is no big deal, he looked confused and a little over anxious when in there last year. Sapp could do as good or better than Battle.

The Bad Guy
06-20-2005, 10:40 AM
I can't wait to hear the whining about how Carl didn't sign Law after McCleon gets toasted all over the field vs the Jets on opening day.

If you get excited about that prospect, then log out and never come back here.

Carl chose to sign other players that help our defense. What did you want him to do? Wait until July to sign him and let some of the other FAs we signed walk to other teams?

I'm a Carl critic, but he did a great job this off-season. Great. Carl didn't sign a guy who couldn't run and you want to criticize that?

You're a jackass.

C-Mac
06-20-2005, 10:42 AM
Freddie Mitchell said he could play at corner....

Yes he did.

chiefkdawg
06-20-2005, 10:51 AM
Freddie Mitchell said he could play at corner....

He's probably better than McCleon... :shake:

Dave Lane
06-20-2005, 10:55 AM
What scares me is when the other team empties the backfield.

Who do we line up vs 5 recievers?

Dave

Wallcrawler
06-20-2005, 11:12 AM
Well, 5 wideouts means once you clear the O-line its open season on the QB with no back in there to pick up anyone.

I would imagine that Gun would send a couple guys and force the QB to throw quickly for a minimal gain. I dont really see Gun playing man coverage against a 5 wide set anyway.

jspchief
06-20-2005, 11:54 AM
jsp, you're being way too harsh. Before the draft/free agency, most people here were saying that we needed to get two starting-caliber CB's in case Warfield got suspended. We got 1. Maybe Hodge can step up, but we all know that McCleon is not a starter in this scheme.

For a team that has a realistic chance at home-field advantage in the playoffs, anything other than a 4-0 or 3-1 start is a killer. I still remember the announcers for the KC-Jax game talking about how when they interviewed the Jax players and coaches during the week and mentioned the possibility of picking on McCleon, they all just smiled.

I'm surprised you mentioned that it doesn't matter if our defense gives up some points in the first four games because our offense can bail them out. Well, that hasn't really worked the past four years.

And I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure KCHIEFS1 isn't going to be rooting for the Chiefs to lose just to prove his point.Way to completely twist what I said. :shake:

I didn't say "it doesn't matter if our defense gives up some points in the first four games because our offense can bail them out". Of course it matters if our D plays well or not. I just don't believe that having Mcleon (or whoever else besides Warfield) automatically means we lose all four of those games, like others seem to believe. We've had a horrible defense for 3 years now, and have only seen 1 four game losing streak. I just think it's an over-reaction.

As far as adding Law, I just don't think it's feasible. First, I don't believe he'll sign a one year contract. All indications from him and his agent say he won't. That means we can't afford him. Even if we could afford him for a long term contract, that would be putting entirely too much money into one position. Second, I think signing Law ia a knee jerk reaction to Warfield's suspension. I have a problem with paying a nickelback 5 million a year, just so we don't have a drop-off for 4 games. It's like an injury, other guys just need to step up.

chiefkdawg
06-20-2005, 12:06 PM
Way to completely twist what I said. :shake:

I didn't say "it doesn't matter if our defense gives up some points in the first four games because our offense can bail them out". Of course it matters if our D plays well or not. I just don't believe that having Mcleon (or whoever else besides Warfield) automatically means we lose all four of those games, like others seem to believe. We've had a horrible defense for 3 years now, and have only seen 1 four game losing streak. I just think it's an over-reaction.

As far as adding Law, I just don't think it's feasible. First, I don't believe he'll sign a one year contract. All indications from him and his agent say he won't. That means we can't afford him. Even if we could afford him for a long term contract, that would be putting entirely too much money into one position. Second, I think signing Law ia a knee jerk reaction to Warfield's suspension. I have a problem with paying a nickelback 5 million a year, just so we don't have a drop-off for 4 games. It's like an injury, other guys just need to step up.

Well said :clap:

htismaqe
06-20-2005, 12:29 PM
I just don't believe that having Mcleon (or whoever else besides Warfield) automatically means we lose all four of those games, like others seem to believe. We've had a horrible defense for 3 years now, and have only seen 1 four game losing streak. I just think it's an over-reaction.

Excellent, excellent argument. :thumb:

Rausch
06-20-2005, 12:55 PM
If you get excited about that prospect, then log out and never come back here.

Carl chose to sign other players that help our defense. What did you want him to do? Wait until July to sign him and let some of the other FAs we signed walk to other teams?

I'm a Carl critic, but he did a great job this off-season. Great. Carl didn't sign a guy who couldn't run and you want to criticize that?

You're a jackass.

Ouch...

Rausch
06-20-2005, 12:56 PM
Okay, so if Bartee is doing a good job at safety I'm working under the assumption that Woods is a goner. Does Jerome have any trade value?

Not with his current contract.

We might get a conditional 7th or 6th if the guy does what Surtain did and restructures...

wildcat09
06-20-2005, 12:59 PM
If you get excited about that prospect, then log out and never come back here.

Carl chose to sign other players that help our defense. What did you want him to do? Wait until July to sign him and let some of the other FAs we signed walk to other teams?

I'm a Carl critic, but he did a great job this off-season. Great. Carl didn't sign a guy who couldn't run and you want to criticize that?

You're a jackass.

don't sugar coat it. tell him how you feel

Rausch
06-20-2005, 01:00 PM
If this move forces us to bring in another vet like Law or Taylor... it might be a blessing in disguise.

Can you imagine our CB's for the final 12 games of the year with Warfiled as our nickle CB????

That's very nice to think about.

Exactly.

I was begging for Taylor last year when he would have been asking for serious coin. Now, he'd probably sign here for a pretty reasonable amount.

We're a contender, he'd be paired up with Surtain (so he isn's being asked to be the Savior) and we were really good at rushing the passer last year.

Problem was our 2ndary played like so much $#it it didn't matter if the qb had 2 seconds or 2 days to throw the ball...

buddha
06-20-2005, 01:07 PM
Personally, I haven't seen much from Battle in the past, and maybe the light was starting to come on for him, but who knows? Dexter isn't the answer, but is he THAT much worse than Julian Battle for goodness sake. We aren't talking about replacing Albert Lewis in his prime here. It is entirely likely that the defense would have had to compensate for Battle any way. If you have a Surtain on one side, you can afford to sneak a safety or a nickle back a few steps toward the other CB and be okay.

shaneo69
06-20-2005, 01:50 PM
If you get excited about that prospect, then log out and never come back here.

Carl chose to sign other players that help our defense. What did you want him to do? Wait until July to sign him and let some of the other FAs we signed walk to other teams?

I'm a Carl critic, but he did a great job this off-season. Great. Carl didn't sign a guy who couldn't run and you want to criticize that?

You're a jackass.

WTF??? KChiefs1 wasn't being critical of Carl at all, as far as I could tell. He was making fun of the people who think we'll be fine with McCleon starting the first 4 games.

We basically have two options if Warfield gets suspended. Start McCleon or Sapp and hope for the best, or sign Law and hope he's healthy enough to play opening day.

Personally, I would cut Woods and McCleon in a second if it meant we could get Law. Yeah we would have a lot of money tied to CB, but right now, there's a huge salary cap discrepancy between offense and defense. I wouldn't mind spending more on defense right now.

Of course, if the team doctor says he wouldn't be healthy enough to play opening day, then forget it.