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tyton75
06-22-2005, 09:40 AM
Vermeil was on 810 this morning talking about some stuff most of us already know..

Key Fox is ready to be a starter (whether he will be or not is yet to be determined)

Fredex is a talented reciever and good in traffic (per Vermeil)

Going to bring in some CB vets to try to shore things up.. Vermeil sounds like he isnt' comfortable with the current situation at CB

Waters is out of shape but Vermeil trusts that he will get back in shape.

But the eye opener to me was that he said Sampson would probably be the opening day RT... I was under the impression that it was Blacks job to lose.. but I guess Sampson is really looking good.

jspchief
06-22-2005, 09:46 AM
This LB thing is a clusterf*ck.
So if Fox is ready to start, and Bell is the other OLB, that puts DJ, Barber, and Fujita on the bench. That's 5 good to solid LBs.

Meanwhile, we have a mediocre Mitchell in the middle, with Scatlon, Boomer, and Maz on the bench.

Seems like we have a surplus of good OLBs, and still don't have anyone solid in the middle. I hope Gun puts Bell at MLB.

HC_Chief
06-22-2005, 09:51 AM
What jsp said.

The Bad Guy
06-22-2005, 09:52 AM
The Chiefs don't need Shawn Barber anymore. Reach an injury settlement with him and send him on his way.

Bell, Mitchell, Johnson, Fox, Fujita, Boomer will likely be the 6 LBs they carry. Where is their room for Barber?

I'm also shocked about Sampson, but he did look real good in TC last year.

KCTitus
06-22-2005, 09:52 AM
Sampson is another Syracuse alum, I believe...we may need a film breakdown from the Roy's before we know what to think on this.

JimNasium
06-22-2005, 09:52 AM
This LB thing is a clusterf*ck.
So if Fox is ready to start, and Bell is the other OLB, that puts DJ, Barber, and Fujita on the bench. That's 5 good to solid LBs.

Meanwhile, we have a mediocre Mitchell in the middle, with Scatlon, Boomer, and Maz on the bench.

Seems like we have a surplus of good OLBs, and still don't have anyone solid in the middle. I hope Gun puts Bell at MLB.
Bell in the middle?

tyton75
06-22-2005, 09:55 AM
I dont' know if I like having Bell in the middle either.. although I think he would be great... i think he would be even better playing his natural position

same idea of moving Bartee to CB.. bad idea!

SNR
06-22-2005, 09:55 AM
Sampson is another Syracuse alum, I believe...we may need a film breakdown from the Roy's before we know what to think on this.I never saw either of them pimping Eric "The Road Grader" Downing

milkman
06-22-2005, 09:56 AM
Bell in the middle?

Gun said he was going to have a "floating" depth chart in TC, but I really think it would just about take an act of God to get him to move Bell.

Just my read on the situation.

Saulbadguy
06-22-2005, 09:57 AM
You realize this will lead to the dreaded "What about a 3-4 defense?" discussion.

TRing
06-22-2005, 09:58 AM
At first i also thought that Bell needed to be in the middle. Now if he was able to learn that position quick that would be the best case scenerio because we could put our top 3 linebackers on the field, which i feel we are not doing by putting kawika in the middle (though I've heard good things, I'm not convinced)

JimNasium
06-22-2005, 09:58 AM
You realize this will lead to the dreaded "What about a 3-4 defense?" discussion.
Falcon?

Saulbadguy
06-22-2005, 09:59 AM
Cut it out, Jim.

SNR
06-22-2005, 10:00 AM
So where does this leave Scanlon? "He will have a spot on this football team"

jspchief
06-22-2005, 10:02 AM
Bell in the middle?Yes. Bell in the middle.

The only reason to put him on the outside is his pass rushing skills. But rushing the passer is only a small fraction of an OLB's duties. Besides that, I think rushing oLBs is ineffective overall. Name an OLB in a 4-3 that gets a lot of sacks.

Bell will be exposed in pass coverage. As was stated by htismaqe in another thread, if we play Bell on the outside, we're going to turn him into another Gary Stills.

jspchief
06-22-2005, 10:05 AM
I dont' know if I like having Bell in the middle either.. although I think he would be great... i think he would be even better playing his natural position

same idea of moving Bartee to CB.. bad idea!His natural position? OLB isn't his natural position. ILB in a 3-4 is.

milkman
06-22-2005, 10:06 AM
Yes. Bell in the middle.

The only reason to put him on the outside is his pass rushing skills. But rushing the passer is only a small fraction of an OLB's duties. Besides that, I think rushing oLBs is ineffective overall. Name an OLB in a 4-3 that gets a lot of sacks.

Bell will be exposed in pass coverage. As was stated by htismaqe in another thread, if we play Bell on the outside, we're going to turn him into another Gary Stills.

Except that Bell will actually get some sacks.

SNR
06-22-2005, 10:08 AM
Name an OLB in a 4-3 that gets a lot of sacks.Derrick Thomas?

TRing
06-22-2005, 10:09 AM
jsp you made me turn over a new leaf. Bell in the middle!!!!

jspchief
06-22-2005, 10:10 AM
Except that Bell will actually get some sacks.Enough to counteract him getting burnt in pass coverage?

Name the last OLB in a 4-3 to post double digit sacks.

jspchief
06-22-2005, 10:12 AM
Derrick Thomas?Good example. He did it in the mid 90s. Even he was becoming less effective late in his career.

And offenses have changed that much more in the last 5+ years.

There is a reason it isn't happening, and it's not lack of talent. Offenses are just too adept at reading OLB rushes, and dumping the ball off.

TRing
06-22-2005, 10:13 AM
so jsp who are you wanting at the other OLB pos.? just curious

milkman
06-22-2005, 10:16 AM
Enough to counteract him getting burnt in pass coverage?

Name the last OLB in a 4-3 to post double digit sacks.

Not the point.
I'm suggesting that the comparison to Stills is invalid, cause Bell is a player, who will make plays.
Stills is just a useles piece of crap on the defense.

tyton75
06-22-2005, 10:16 AM
My opinion, and I think Gun would agree, if you have a guy who has a knack for getting after the QB.. you put him in the best position to succeed.. Bell is best suited for OLB in a 4-3 scheme and he is great at the point of attack

Honestly, I'm just really phucking glad that we got him and he BETTER stay healthy!

John_Wayne
06-22-2005, 10:17 AM
This LB thing is a clusterf*ck.
So if Fox is ready to start, and Bell is the other OLB, that puts DJ, Barber, and Fujita on the bench. That's 5 good to solid LBs.

Meanwhile, we have a mediocre Mitchell in the middle, with Scatlon, Boomer, and Maz on the bench.

Seems like we have a surplus of good OLBs, and still don't have anyone solid in the middle. I hope Gun puts Bell at MLB.

There’s no way DJ should be or will be on the bench. He’ll start and so will Bell. If Fox is doing so well, put him in the middle. Or, put Bell in the middle and Fox on the outside. We need the 3 best LB on the field. Also, can we risk those first 4 games of the season with Mitchell as our starting MLB? I have little confidence in him. I hope I’m wrong about Mitchell.

Here’s my choice of opening day LB squad:
D.J. – OLB
Bell – MLB
Fox – OLB
Fujita – backup OLB
Mitchell – backup MLB
Stills – backup OLB
Grigsby – ST

Scanlon – PS
Barber – PUP

Maz – cut / retire
Kris Griffin – cut
Caver - cut

Chris Meck
06-22-2005, 10:17 AM
How about Holdman two years ago in Chicago?

Thing about a 3-4 is that our linebackers would be a tad on the light side for such things. We could spot it here and there, though, in like second and long and situations. That could be interesting.

HC_Chief
06-22-2005, 10:19 AM
Derrick Thomas?

He played more of the DE position than OLB; from the traditional sense.

jspchief
06-22-2005, 10:19 AM
so jsp who are you wanting at the other OLB pos.? just curiousI'm not set on any one guy.

Fox looked good in mini-camp, and the coaches are high on him.

DJ was a stud in college. If he can make the jump his rookie year, fine.

I still think Fujita isn't bad. I think he's suffered from lack of talent in the middle.

I'm not a big fan of Barber. I wouldn't mind we reached an injury agreement with him. At the same time, if he can just start tackling better, I'm ok with him too.

I guess that's part of my point. The worst of our OLBs will likely be Barber and Fujita, and I think they are solid. Meanwhile, our best MLB at this point is a questionable Mitchell.

Rukdafaidas
06-22-2005, 10:20 AM
You realize this will lead to the dreaded "What about a 3-4 defense?" discussion.
I'm thinking we could see a lot of 3-4 and I have mixed feelings. I think we have the linebackers for it, but I don't think we have the ends for the 3-4. We could move Browning to end, but would Hicks be effective? I doubt it. Allen and Hall, IMO, are too small to play the 3-4.

Coach
06-22-2005, 10:23 AM
I just wish the Chiefs would get a injury settlement on Barber and Maz, so that's two positions that we don't have to worry about, and be able to recover some of the money from that. Unfortunately, that isn't going to happen.

jspchief
06-22-2005, 10:23 AM
I'm thinking we could see a lot of 3-4 and I have mixed feelings. I think we have the linebackers for it, but I don't think we have the ends for the 3-4. We could move Browning to end, but would Hicks be effective? I doubt it. Allen and Hall, IMO, are too small to play the 3-4. I agree. We don't have anything close to the D-line we need for a 3-4.

tyton75
06-22-2005, 10:25 AM
I think occasionally switching to the 3-4 would be advantagous for the defense.. we have the horses at LB to do it on obvious passing downs..

Siavii in the middle... flanked by Dalton and Browning would probably be best for a 3-4 allignment

htismaqe
06-22-2005, 10:28 AM
On Sampson, Black is going to be our LT when Roaf is gone. I think they're content with letting him be backup until then.

On the LB situation, I'm in 100% agreement with jspchief. Somebody said we should keep Bell at his natural position.

His "natural" NFL position is ILB in a 3-4, and since we play a 4-3, he has no natural position in our defense. In college, Bell played middle linebacker and Georgia runs a 4-3. He's better suited for the inside. The guy CAN rush the passer, but he's a tackling MACHINE. We need him inside.

Put DJ at SSLB and Fox at WSLB and we have not only the best Chiefs' unit we can possibly field, but a unit that can play with any in the AFC West.

Rukdafaidas
06-22-2005, 10:29 AM
I think occasionally switching to the 3-4 would be advantagous for the defense.. we have the horses at LB to do it on obvious passing downs..

Siavii in the middle... flanked by Dalton and Browning would probably be best for a 3-4 allignment
The NG/NT position is the most important in 3-4 and I don't like the idea of Sims or Siavii having the assignment. Either of them would have to drastically improve to be effective.

HC_Chief
06-22-2005, 10:30 AM
Put DJ at SSLB and Fox at WSLB and we have not only the best Chiefs' unit we can possibly field, but a unit that can play with any in the AFC West.

We also have an extremely FAST/QUICK LB corps... something we've sorely lacked.

TRR
06-22-2005, 10:33 AM
Let's see what Key Fox looks like in pads before we start penciling him in as a starter. Shorts and T's doesn't say a whole lot.

tyton75
06-22-2005, 10:33 AM
The NG/NT position is the most important in 3-4 and I don't like the idea of Sims or Siavii having the assignment. Either of them would have to drastically improve to be effective.


I agree that either would have to get better.. but in the 3-4 you need a big body in the middle there and Siavii is definitely that.. and strong.. so he could at least hold his position.

tyton75
06-22-2005, 10:34 AM
I might be missing something.. but on Bell... why are they so adamant against moving him to the middle if he would be such a great fit there?

Lzen
06-22-2005, 10:36 AM
His natural position? OLB isn't his natural position. ILB in a 3-4 is.

I believe that I read an interview with Gun awhile back that said that Bell played the ILB in the 3-4 that was similar to one of the OLBs in a 4-3. It was not the ILB position that acts as the MLB. Therefore, Bell is not experienced at MLB. Could he learn it? Maybe. But I would much rather stick with a guy that has played in the position and/or is showing much improvement at it. Playing Bell at MLB may possibly work. Then again, it could turn into a big disaster.

milkman
06-22-2005, 10:37 AM
On Sampson, Black is going to be our LT when Roaf is gone. I think they're content with letting him be backup until then.

I think the fact that Black played as well as he did whenhe got into the game last season, added to the fact that Sampson has shown enough to be penciled in as the RT to start the season is a pretty good indication that we still have a lot of young talent and depth on the O-Line, which bodes well for the future of this offense.



On the LB situation, I'm in 100% agreement with jspchief. Somebody said we should keep Bell at his natural position.

His "natural" NFL position is ILB in a 3-4, and since we play a 4-3, he has no natural position in our defense. In college, Bell played middle linebacker and Georgia runs a 4-3. He's better suited for the inside. The guy CAN rush the passer, but he's a tackling MACHINE. We need him inside.

Put DJ at SSLB and Fox at WSLB and we have not only the best Chiefs' unit we can possibly field, but a unit that can play with any in the AFC West.

If Gun were true to his word, and these are our 3 best LBs, then this would be the line up on opening day.

But I also know that Gun is pretty stubborn, and he just loves the idea of Bell on the outside, so we won't se it happen.

Lzen
06-22-2005, 10:42 AM
In college, Bell played middle linebacker and Georgia runs a 4-3. He's better suited for the inside. The guy CAN rush the passer, but he's a tackling MACHINE. We need him inside.

He played MLB at Georgia? I didn't realize that. Are you positive about that? If that's the case, I don't know why they don't want to play him in the middle.

TRR
06-22-2005, 10:44 AM
Opening day starters will be Kendrell Bell, Kawika Mitchell, and Derrick Johnson IMHO. I'm fine with that as long as Mitchell has a productive TC.

I too thought Bell fit better at MLB. He played his entire college career at MLB in a 4-3 scheme. I thought a LB trio of Derrick Johnson, Kendrell Bell, and Scott Fujita would be good. However, it doesn't look like Fujita will get the chance to start.

Brock
06-22-2005, 10:48 AM
He played MLB at Georgia? I didn't realize that. Are you positive about that? If that's the case, I don't know why they don't want to play him in the middle.

Yep. (http://georgiadogs.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/bell_kendrell00.html)

tyton75
06-22-2005, 10:49 AM
Just reflecting for a sec.. but how freaking cool is it that we can actually have a heated discussion about this defense that didnt' center around guy x sux more than guy z

htismaqe
06-22-2005, 10:50 AM
For everybody that asked "He played MLB in collge? Then why are they so intent on playing him outside?" read carefully what SideWinder posted.

We've seen Gunther before. We KNOW Gunther. He's like a ****ing schoolgirl when it comes to thinking about Bell being the next Derrick Thomas. He can't make himself not want it. Why?

Because deep down, Bell reminds him of ANTHONY DAVIS. Anybody remember him? The guy NEVER had more than 4.5 sacks in a season. But he recovered fumbles, picked off passes, and made big plays when the counted. THAT is what Bell is. That is what Bell was in college, where he finished with more passes defensed than sacks.

htismaqe
06-22-2005, 10:53 AM
My bad, according to the official Bulldog site (thanks Brock!) he had 7 career sacks and 6 passes defensed (2 deflected, 4 picks).

Anyong Bluth
06-22-2005, 11:18 AM
Good post htis,


I still think Bell has way more upside than AD - no shock there. Ideally I would like to see Savaii and Dalton stuff up the middle - which would do wonders for either KM or KF to play MLB.
IF Bell is most effective at OLB, stick with him there, We just brought in a headhunting safety and if Wesley gets back to his form of his 1st two years it will be nasty run defense with a lot of pop. Throw DJ in pursuit from the weakside and I think this defense's ability to swarm is tremendous.
If Jared Allen or Hall can offer a viable pass rush it could be great. Has anyone else read that the Sporting News ranked Warfield as the 3rd best press coverage corner in the league. Him and Surtain with Bartee, Woods, or Sapp used in nickel and dime packages i think is more than servicable. (every team facing Oakland is going to give up chunks of yards with that WR corps)

My starting D

SS S.Knight
FS Wesley
CB Surtain
CB Warfield
WLB DJ
MLB Mitchell / Fox - depending on TC
SLB Bell
DE J.Allen
DL Savaii
DL Dalton
DE Hall - Hicks will get it and maybe improve w/ some decent LB behind him... not holding my breathe?


I'd like to pick up a CB to cover Warfield for those 1st four games and this is a must I feel b/c if they eat it in the beginning of the season they will be dead in the water and very tough to make ground.

That said - if they can address this I think they can easily go 2-2, even 3-1 in the 1st four. I think the home games over a distinct adv. and Denver is a sinking ship... who knows...

htismaqe
06-22-2005, 12:09 PM
The problem is that Fox isn't a MLB...he's only 235 pounds. Johnson is 240, Bell is 250, Mitchell is 250.

milkman
06-22-2005, 12:12 PM
The problem is that Fox isn't a MLB...he's only 235 pounds. Johnson is 240, Bell is 250, Mitchell is 250.

Bell should be in the middle, but if Fox is one of our 3 best LBs and playing him in the middle is the only way he gets out there, I'm all for it.

Doesn't Dan Morgan weigh in at about 235?

TRR
06-22-2005, 12:14 PM
Bell should be in the middle, but if Fox is one of our 3 best LBs and playing him in the middle is the only way he gets out there, I'm all for it.

Doesn't Dan Morgan weigh in at about 235?

I still can't believe Mitchell is 250. He just never looked that stout to me.

milkman
06-22-2005, 12:16 PM
I still can't believe Mitchell is 250. He just never looked that stout to me.

I agree.
He looks closer to 240 to me.

htismaqe
06-22-2005, 12:20 PM
Bell should be in the middle, but if Fox is one of our 3 best LBs and playing him in the middle is the only way he gets out there, I'm all for it.

Doesn't Dan Morgan weigh in at about 235?

Morgan is 245.

Anyong Bluth
06-22-2005, 12:25 PM
well Junior is a beefer guy and if Fox can fill the need it doesn't matter if he's 15 lbs lighter as long as Kawika can't shed a block.

I'm just not for plugging a guy into a spot if it detracts from his ability to make an impact at their "true" position (bell) I realize this is all speculative and Bell might do great in the middle and increase his chances to make sacks bolting up the middle? who knows? But I would not make weight the final determination of his ability to stuff the middle. DJ gets knocked on for "not taking blockers" but we've all watched the highlights of him weaving through blockers to make the tackle - which is the whole point of the D, anyway.

htismaqe
06-22-2005, 12:28 PM
I agree.
He looks closer to 240 to me.

He's listed by ESPN and NFL.com as 253. He's listed by the USF Bulls site at 255.

http://www.lhsilverhawks.com/Assets/Graphic%20Elements/kawikablock.jpg

Number 50 for the Chargers is David Binn, their long snapper. He's 6'3", 250 pounds.

el borracho
06-22-2005, 12:28 PM
Name an OLB in a 4-3 that gets a lot of sacks.
Quarterback pressures, while not as good as quarterback sacks, are still important to a good defense.

htismaqe
06-22-2005, 12:30 PM
well Junior is a beefer guy and if Fox can fill the need it doesn't matter if he's 15 lbs lighter as long as Kawika can't shed a block.

I'm just not for plugging a guy into a spot if it detracts from his ability to make an impact at their "true" position (bell) I realize this is all speculative and Bell might do great in the middle and increase his chances to make sacks bolting up the middle? who knows? But I would not make weight the final determination of his ability to stuff the middle. DJ gets knocked on for "not taking blockers" but we've all watched the highlights of him weaving through blockers to make the tackle - which is the whole point of the D, anyway.

It's not solely about size, but more about what a guy is athletically suited for. Bell played MLB in college and ILB at Pittsburgh. He's not a 4-3 OLB. Fox is. Fox has played OLB his entire life.

jspchief
06-22-2005, 12:41 PM
Quarterback pressures, while not as good as quarterback sacks, are still important to a good defense.And they will still make up a small fraction of the pass plays that an OLB defends.

Is Bell going to blitz every pass play? No. More often than not, he'll dropping into coverage, which is his biggest weakness.


Oh well. I'm dropping this. Obviously Bell will be the reincarnation of Lawrence Taylor, aided by all the QBs that are dumber than a bag of hammers. He's going to buck all the trends of the last five years in the NFL. :rolleyes:

Mike in SW-MO
06-22-2005, 12:50 PM
Gun obviously wants Bell outside.

Top candidates outside include Bell, Johnson, and Fox. Throw in Fujita and Barber for backups. All to play 2 positions. Now we hope he's fine, but Bell is an injury risk. So let's say we use him as a 20down LB. That gets him extra rest and puts a (hopefully) starter quality LB in his place.

Like Still Bell is supposed to be a terrific pass rusher and so-so in coverage. Unlike Stills, he's ferocious against the run. So he's a guy that can do multiple things. Stills is strictly rush-the-passer.

At MLB, we have Mitchell that everyone says is looking pretty good this summer. We also have Mazlowski (hopefully) returning as a pretty good MLB. We also have Scanlon coming back from NFLE with a good resume to indicate he may be more than serviceable. Plus we have deep backup in Boomer is necessary. Looks like we have great depth at MLB, too if Maz makes it back. If none of those guys pan out, we may yet see Bell at MLB.

But strictly by the numbers, looks like OLB is the place for him. At this point, I'd rather see Barber and Fujita let go than the rest of the guys that are showing signs of life.

As every year, River Falls will tell.

The one thing I know is, I see 9 guys vying for 6-7 slots. Somebody is going to get cut that won't make it onto the PS.

Spicy McHaggis
06-22-2005, 12:57 PM
The problem is that Fox isn't a MLB...he's only 235 pounds. Johnson is 240, Bell is 250, Mitchell is 250.

I've got a friend who hangs with Fox and apparently the coaches have been on Fox about adding some more mass, especially in the legs. Don't know if the MLB situation has anything to do with that or not.

Also if playing Bell in the middle means we can get our best LB corp out there then by all means we need to do it.

Frankie
06-22-2005, 01:04 PM
His natural position? OLB isn't his natural position. ILB in a 3-4 is.
What LB position did Bell play in college?

jspchief
06-22-2005, 01:07 PM
What LB position did Bell play in college?This discussion is going on in about three different threads right now. It was posted in one of them. He played MLB in a 4-3 in college...further supporting my point.

milkman
06-22-2005, 01:13 PM
This discussion is going on in about three different threads right now. It was posted in one of them. He played MLB in a 4-3 in college...further supporting my point.

Let me reiterate my position here.

I agree wholeheartedly that Bell should be in the middle.

I just disagree that QBs are too smart for Bell to be effective as a pass rusher.
There are a few that are too smart for him to be effective, but there's also a number of them that ain't too bright.

I also disagree with you're comparison of Bell to Stills.

Bell has talent.
Stills is a scrub that has no business on the field with the defense, ever.

But if you ask me where do I think Bell would be the most effective and have the most impact, and where do I want to see him line up at, it's MLB, hands down.

htismaqe
06-22-2005, 01:16 PM
Let me reiterate my position here.

I agree wholeheartedly that Bell should be in the middle.

I just disagree that QBs are too smart for Bell to be effective as a pass rusher.
There are a few that are too smart for him to be effective, but there's also a number of them that ain't too bright.

I also disagree with you're comparison of Bell to Stills.

Bell has talent.
Stills is a scrub that has no business on the field with the defense, ever.

But if you ask me where do I think Bell would be the most effective and have the most impact, and where do I want to see him line up at, it's MLB, hands down.

I don't think anybody was suggesting that Bell is no more talented than Stills.

The problem is that if you make Bell a pass rushing specialist, you limit the number of chances he has to make an impact, just like Stills.

keg in kc
06-22-2005, 01:21 PM
The other point here (and nobody will like this) but the way Gunther has designed the defense, Mitchell could well be better suited to play MLB than Bell. And Bell could well be exactly what he wants at OLB. There may be method to his madness. Who knows...

Either way, I want to see it on the field before I bitch about it. They all looked good Saturday from where I was sitting. Including, again, Mitchell. If that translates into play in pads in August, I don't think we're going to have much to complain about regardless of where Bell is playing.

jspchief
06-22-2005, 01:23 PM
Let me reiterate my position here.

I agree wholeheartedly that Bell should be in the middle.

I just disagree that QBs are too smart for Bell to be effective as a pass rusher.
There are a few that are too smart for him to be effective, but there's also a number of them that ain't too bright.

I also disagree with you're comparison of Bell to Stills.

Bell has talent.
Stills is a scrub that has no business on the field with the defense, ever.

But if you ask me where do I think Bell would be the most effective and have the most impact, and where do I want to see him line up at, it's MLB, hands down.My comparison of Bell to Stills was meant in terms of how they are used, not ability or what they will acomplish.

And we'll just have to disagree on the QB issue. IMO, it's not just the QB, but also the design of offenses that has caused a drop in 4-3 OLBs effectively rushing the passer. There's no denying that 4-3 OLBs don't get to the QB as often as they used to. Sure on occasion it will still work. I'm just looking at it as an overall trend over the last 5+ years. Offenses have changed, and thus the way defenses get to the QB have too.

royr17
06-22-2005, 01:26 PM
Scanlon – PS
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Thats stupid, Rich will make the team, if we put him on the PS, he will be gone, he wont even clear waivers and he will go to another team and do well.

The guy that needs to be put on PS is Boomer Grigsby, he's a rookie and Rich has shown more then he has.

CoMoChief
06-22-2005, 01:26 PM
Personally I would think that we have enough talent at the LB position that we should use a 3-4 scheme, not thats gonna happen but I would think it would be a good idea...

LOLB - Derrick Johnson
LILB - Kendrell Bell
RILB - Kawika Mitchell
ROLB - Keyaron Fox

RE - Jared Allen
DT - Lional Dalton
LE - Carlos Hall (if we could switch him there from RE)

LCB - Patrick Surtain
RCB - Eric Warfield(considering no suspension)/Ty Law (If we can get him)
FS - Greg Wesley
SS - Sammy Knight

Just a little optimism I guess. I just hope no one would beat us downfield because I doubt our safeties could catch up with them.

the Talking Can
06-22-2005, 01:26 PM
hopefully it will turn out we have 4 quality starting LBs...that is a good problem to have....

milkman
06-22-2005, 01:26 PM
I don't think anybody was suggesting that Bell is no more talented than Stills.

The problem is that if you make Bell a pass rushing specialist, you limit the number of chances he has to make an impact, just like Stills.

You may be right about his meaning.

If so, I apologize for giving so much greif for this statement.

Bell will be exposed in pass coverage. As was stated by htismaqe in another thread, if we play Bell on the outside, we're going to turn him into another Gary Stills.

the Talking Can
06-22-2005, 01:27 PM
Personally I would think that we have enough talent at the LB position that we should use a 3-4 scheme, not thats gonna happen but I would think it would be a good idea...

LOLB - Derrick Johnson
LILB - Kendrell Bell
RILB - Kawika Mitchell
ROLB - Keyaron Fox

RE - Jared Allen
DT - Lional Dalton
LE - Carlos Hall (if we could switch him there from RE)



That would be the worst 3-4 DL in a long, long time...scary...

royr17
06-22-2005, 01:29 PM
It's not solely about size, but more about what a guy is athletically suited for. Bell played MLB in college and ILB at Pittsburgh. He's not a 4-3 OLB. Fox is. Fox has played OLB his entire life.

Wrong Again Parker. Key Fox played safety in his first years in college before moving to OLB.

beavis
06-22-2005, 01:29 PM
The guy that needs to be put on PS is Boomer Grigsby, he's a rookie and Rich has shown more then he has.
That's a bold statement, considering Boomer hasn't even put on shoulder pads yet.

shaneo69
06-22-2005, 01:30 PM
But if you ask me where do I think Bell would be the most effective and have the most impact, and where do I want to see him line up at, it's MLB, hands down.

I think Gunther wants Bell to be a playmaker. But Gunther just wants his MLB in this scheme to be a tackling machine, like Tracy Simien or Marvcus Patton, two guys who didn't make big plays, just got a lot of tackles.

IMO, it's why he moved Donnie Edwards to OLB and why he'll leave Bell outside.

milkman
06-22-2005, 01:30 PM
My comparison of Bell to Stills was meant in terms of how they are used, not ability or what they will acomplish.

And we'll just have to disagree on the QB issue. IMO, it's not just the QB, but also the design of offenses that has caused a drop in 4-3 OLBs effectively rushing the passer. There's no denying that 4-3 OLBs don't get to the QB as often as they used to. Sure on occasion it will still work. I'm just looking at it as an overall trend over the last 5+ years. Offenses have changed, and thus the way defenses get to the QB have too.

Sorry to have read a different meaning into it.

The bolded part, I do agree with.

milkman
06-22-2005, 01:32 PM
Thats stupid, Rich will make the team, if we put him on the PS, he will be gone, he wont even clear waivers and he will go to another team and do well.

The guy that needs to be put on PS is Boomer Grigsby, he's a rookie and Rich has shown more then he has.

Yes he has.
The refs that kept throwing those yellow hankies out almost everytime he saw the field will testify to that.

htismaqe
06-22-2005, 01:35 PM
Wrong Again Parker. Key Fox played safety in his first years in college before moving to OLB.

He split time at OLB and SS all through high school and college.

So piss off, moron.

Don't you have a Scanlon picture to wack off to?

htismaqe
06-22-2005, 01:36 PM
I think Gunther wants Bell to be a playmaker. But Gunther just wants his MLB in this scheme to be a tackling machine, like Tracy Simien or Marvcus Patton, two guys who didn't make big plays, just got a lot of tackles.

IMO, it's why he moved Donnie Edwards to OLB and why he'll leave Bell outside.

IMO, it's why I didn't want Gunther to come back here.

royr17
06-22-2005, 01:38 PM
He split time at OLB and SS all through high school and college.

So piss off, moron.

Don't you have a Scanlon picture to wack off to?

Im sorry im not that way.

Why such a grudge against Scanlon ?

keg in kc
06-22-2005, 01:39 PM
Don't you have a Scanlon picture to wack off to?I believe the technical term is "Scansturbation".

htismaqe
06-22-2005, 01:40 PM
Im sorry im not that way.

Why such a grudge against Scanlon ?

Ask you're dad. Neither of you seem to get it.

ptlyon
06-22-2005, 01:43 PM
Well, on a happier note, at least the Royals aren't getting beat.

Yet.

TEX
06-22-2005, 01:43 PM
[QUOTE=tyton75]Vermeil was on 810 this morning talking about some stuff most of us already know..



Waters is out of shape but Vermeil trusts that he will get back in shape.

QUOTE]

Not really buying this one. Seems more like a jab by DV cause he HATES it when players miss any time.

the Talking Can
06-22-2005, 01:43 PM
Im sorry im not that way.

Why such a grudge against Scanlon ?

becuase he's a nobody NFLE veteran who hasn't played a meanigful down in the NFL yet you refer to him 1000 times a day like he popped your cherry....shut the **** about Scanlon....capiche?

ROYC75
06-22-2005, 01:43 PM
Ask you're dad. Neither of you seem to get it.


Oh how cute, the boy caught you in a misleading quote and you go into attack mode..... ROFL

And somebody says they don't get pissed off about it ? :hmmm: ROFL

Classic..........

royr17
06-22-2005, 01:43 PM
Ask you're dad. Neither of you seem to get it.

Sorry, but we are just standing behind him. We saw him do more last year in the preseason games then we saw in Kawika. What im wondering is why cant you accept the fact that the guy has talent and can be a pretty good LB.

Whys the reason you doubt him, Is it cause he was a undrafted rookie free agent. Oh yea undrafted Free Agents arent goin to succeed thats why Priest hasnt done anything in his career.

shakesthecat
06-22-2005, 01:44 PM
Well, on a happier note, at least the Royals aren't getting beat.

Yet.

1-0 Sux.

Anything else you wanna jynx while you're at it?

the Talking Can
06-22-2005, 01:45 PM
and on cue the Scanlon signal flashes in the night sky and Roys appear...

ptlyon
06-22-2005, 01:45 PM
1-0 Sux.

Anything else you wanna jynx while you're at it?

Oops. Sorry 'bout that.

So, how's married life?

TRR
06-22-2005, 01:45 PM
Sorry to get back on track here...But Kevin Sampson sounds like a freak of nature. I was impressed by him in TC last season. At 6'4 and 312 pounds, Sampson runs a 4.9 40 yard dash.

OVERVIEW
Vastly underrated talent with a large wing span and excellent field smarts … Anchored the line from his right tackle position the last two years and also performed admirably on the field-goal and extra-point units … Tough, aggressive blocker who brings his wrestling mentality to the gridiron (undefeated heavyweight wrestler in his school) … Also excelled in the classroom, earning the school Athletic Director's Honor Roll four times.
ANALYSIS
Positives: Tall, well-proportioned athlete with long arms, wide waist and hips, thick thighs and calves … Shows sudden movements dropping back in pass protection, extending his arms and delivering a crunching hand jolt to rock a defender on his heels … Does a fine job of bending his knees and going low to take defenders off their feet … Has good change-of-direction skills when moving laterally … Fluid moving to the second level, going low to chop-block linebackers in the open … Maintains balance after delivering the initial block, showing proper knee bend coming out of his stance … Moves his feet well in contact and keeps his hands right in a defender's chest to prevent the inside surge … Gets a good push off the snap and displays effective hand placement to re-direct the defenders away from the play.

Negatives: Despite his balance, he tends to get a little too high in his stance when working off the edge, which allows defenders to get their hands under his pads … Moves well laterally in the short area, but gets his leg base too narrow when heading upfield … Moves defenders off the ball with his size, but tends to lean into his man, causing the quicker defenders to get by with a good swim move … Needs to stand more flat-footed when anchoring to prevent defenders from knocking him off-balance.
AGILITY TESTS
4.96 in the 40-yard dash … Bench presses 225 pounds 27 times … 32-inch vertical jump … 8-foot-11 broad jump … 4.47 20-yard shuttle … 7.18 three-cone drill.
HIGH SCHOOL
Attended Westwood (N.J.) High, earning SuperPrep, PrepStar and Tom Lemming all-regional honors … Three-year all-league, two-time all-county first team and first-team all-state Group 2, second-team Associated Press all-state and New Jersey Governors Bowl Team member … Three-year starter on the offensive line … Undefeated heavyweight wrestler.
PERSONAL
Information Management and Technology and Sociology double major … Son of Pat Ciancio and Jack Roarke … Born Kevin M. Sampson … Resides in Westwood, N.J.

royr17
06-22-2005, 01:45 PM
becuase he's a nobody NFLE veteran who hasn't played a meanigful down in the NFL yet you refer to him 1000 times a day like he popped your cherry....shut the **** about Scanlon....capiche?

1000 times a day ??? I dont even hardly post since im workin now and i've kept my comments about Rich down. You guys just Ag it on.

htismaqe
06-22-2005, 01:47 PM
Oh how cute, the boy caught you in a misleading quote and you go into attack mode..... ROFL

And somebody says they don't get pissed off about it ? :hmmm: ROFL

Classic..........

A misleading quote?

Try again.

htismaqe
06-22-2005, 01:48 PM
Sorry, but we are just standing behind him.

And he'd appreciate it if you'd either reach around or take your hands off of his hips.

Lzen
06-22-2005, 01:49 PM
[QUOTE=tyton75]Vermeil was on 810 this morning talking about some stuff most of us already know..



Waters is out of shape but Vermeil trusts that he will get back in shape.

QUOTE]

Not really buying this one. Seems more like a jab by DV cause he HATES it when players miss any time.

I questioned that comment, too. As I recall, the other players on the team and especially the Oline were saying that Waters was in good shape and must've been working out well while he was away.

Lzen
06-22-2005, 01:50 PM
and on cue the Scanlon signal flashes in the night sky and Roys appear...


:Scanlon:
Scanlon? Did somebody say Rich Scanlon

TEX
06-22-2005, 01:50 PM
I have NO problem with Sampson starting at RT. From the little I saw of his play last season, he did fine. I remember him playing LT in preseason and holding his own. He looked FAR better than Williams who was/is the absolute WORST tackle prospect I've seen in a Chiefs uniform in a long time. RT is not a concern of mine because the Chiefs have the talent on the roster to fill it - depth at LT is.

shaneo69
06-22-2005, 01:51 PM
IMO, it's why I didn't want Gunther to come back here.

Because he prefers a tackling machine in the middle and playmakers on the outside?

Line Judge
06-22-2005, 01:51 PM
How many positions are saved on the roster each yeear for special teams only (not kickers, puters or holders)? Is it possible that Grigsby and Scanlon can both make the roster jus for their special teams work?

ptlyon
06-22-2005, 01:53 PM
Is it possible that Grigsby and Scanlon can both make the roster jus for their special teams work?

You want us just to all get along!?!


NEVAR!!!

Chief Faithful
06-22-2005, 01:53 PM
Let's see what Key Fox looks like in pads before we start penciling him in as a starter. Shorts and T's doesn't say a whole lot.

WOW! Common sense enters the conversation.

I'm glad to hear Fox is looking good in his pajamas during OTAs, but so did Barftee the last few years. All the talk from camp says Mitchell is also looking good.

Fact is Mitchell was the starting MLB and showed consistant improvement game to game throughout the season. We have seen nothing from Fox that says he is worth moving people around just to get him on the field. Last year he could not break into the line-up of the worst linebacking group in the NFL.

Keep Bell at his best natural position and from early reports it sounds like OLB. Let him have his biggest impact by putting him where he plays his best. If that leaves Mitchell as the best MLB then so be it.

I think the best we can hope is Fox proves he is good enough to back up a starter instead of spending the season on the bench.

shaneo69
06-22-2005, 01:55 PM
How many positions are saved on the roster each yeear for special teams only (not kickers, puters or holders)? Is it possible that Grigsby and Scanlon can both make the roster jus for their special teams work?

Yes, they can and probably will. I figure they'll keep 7 LB's....Mitchell, Bell, DJ, Fox, Boomer, Scanlon, Fujita.

ROYC75
06-22-2005, 01:59 PM
A misleading quote?

Try again.

Try this one out .........

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Originally Posted by htismaqe
Fox has played OLB his entire life.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

All he done was mentioned that your statement was wrong, you went on the offensive. Further more, Scanlon was mentioned and you brought it up to as a sacastic remark. In reality, you made yourself look as thou it bothered you. Telling some one he is a moron and to piss off only tells me that you do indeed take it personal and get upset/and or mad.

It has been awhile since III has mentioned Rich at all.

I don't bring it up anymore unless it's as humor on some threads( with the exception of mentioning his name here ) .

Face it you got mad because he called you on the quote, you got upset over it and called him a name and being sarcastic.

Your quote was misleading and he mentioned it.....

htismaqe
06-22-2005, 02:00 PM
Because he prefers a tackling machine in the middle and playmakers on the outside?

Because he prefers to do it his way as opposed to doing what it takes to win...

TRR
06-22-2005, 02:02 PM
Yes, they can and probably will. I figure they'll keep 7 LB's....Mitchell, Bell, DJ, Fox, Boomer, Scanlon, Fujita.

I know posters don't like Maz, but he is healthy and will compete. Also, Gary Stills is a ST Pro Bowler, and has been moved to LB as well.

I have a bet with one of the Roy's. I don't see Scanlon making the active roster.

ROYC75
06-22-2005, 02:04 PM
Because he prefers to do it his way as opposed to doing what it takes to win...

I'm sure Gun wants to win. Sure he wants to do it his way, he's the DC and has been doing it for some time.

Remember last year it was mentioned that Gun knows what he is doing with players , roster spots and defense.

shaneo69
06-22-2005, 02:07 PM
Because he prefers to do it his way as opposed to my way...

Fixed it for ya...

htismaqe
06-22-2005, 02:08 PM
Try this one out .........

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Originally Posted by htismaqe
Fox has played OLB his entire life.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

All he done was mentioned that your statement was wrond, you went on the offensive. Further more, Scanlon was mentioned and you brought it up to as a sacastic remark. In reality, you made yourself look as thou it bothered you. Telling some one he is a moron and to piss off only tells me that you do indeed take it personal and get upset/and or mad.

It has been awhile since III has mentioned Rich at all.

I don't bring it up anymore unless it's as humor on some threads( with the exception of mentioning his name here ) .

Face it you got mad because he called you on the quote, you got upset over it and called him a name and being sarcastic.

Your quote was misleading and he mentioned it.....

ROFL

htismaqe
06-22-2005, 02:10 PM
Remember last year it was mentioned that Gun knows what he is doing with players , roster spots and defense.

Remember last year we had, once again, one of the worst defenses in the history of football.

milkman
06-22-2005, 02:11 PM
I know posters don't like Maz, but he is healthy and will compete. Also, Gary Stills is a ST Pro Bowler, and has been moved to LB as well.

I have a bet with one of the Roy's. I don't see Scanlon making the active roster.

I do like Maz.
I like his intensity and desire.

I would be surprised if he makes this team now, though.
He was slow before he got hurt.
Chances are with age and injury, he'll be slower still.

As for Stills, he's going to have to do more than just be a ST player to make this squad.
He's going to be on the bubble, and if Gopher is as good as the Roys claim, then I don't think he makes the team either.

htismaqe
06-22-2005, 02:11 PM
Fixed it for ya...

That's fine, and probably fair.

But I distinctly remember a coach who was so consumed by the thought of beating Denver that he struggled to beat anyone else.

I have no reason to think that he's changed.

Frankie
06-22-2005, 02:18 PM
I too thought Bell fit better at MLB. He played his entire college career at MLB in a 4-3 scheme. I thought a LB trio of Derrick Johnson, Kendrell Bell, and Scott Fujita would be good. However, it doesn't look like Fujita will get the chance to start.

If Fox has improved as much with pads as without, I think Fuji will be traded away.

TRR
06-22-2005, 02:20 PM
If Fox has improved as much with pads as without, I think Fuji will be traded away.

You could be right, but Fujita is playing for near vets minimum, and is only on a one year contract. I don't think Fuj' is going anywhere.

ptlyon
06-22-2005, 02:21 PM
You could be right, but Fujita is playing for near vets minimum, and is only on a one year contract. I don't think Fuj' is going anywhere.

Did I ever tell you that I like Steak Fujitas better than Chicken Fujitas?

TRR
06-22-2005, 02:24 PM
Did I ever tell you that I like Steak Fujitas better than Chicken Fujitas?

LOL! That gets annoying when announcers pronounce Fujita's name as Fajita. How much money are you making to butcher a name like that?

LOL!

milkman
06-22-2005, 02:24 PM
Did I ever tell you that I like Steak Fujitas better than Chicken Fujitas?

Sounds ghey! :)

Pants
06-22-2005, 02:24 PM
That's fine, and probably fair.

But I distinctly remember a coach who was so consumed by the thought of beating Denver that he struggled to beat anyone else.

I have no reason to think that he's changed.

You bring up an excellent point. But what does Bell being outside have to do with beating Denver?

keg in kc
06-22-2005, 02:28 PM
It's impossible to tell which linebackers will be cut, but I don't think that Barber, Fujita and Maslowski could be considered roster locks at this point. It wouldn't surprise me to see all three gone if everyone working with the team right now makes it through camp healthy. It's a numbers crunch.

TRR
06-22-2005, 02:31 PM
It's impossible to tell which linebackers will be cut, but I don't think that Barber, Fujita and Maslowski could be considered roster locks at this point. It wouldn't surprise me to see all three gone if everyone working with the team right now makes it through camp healthy. It's a numbers crunch.

You know, in season's past, I would be upset to see those 3 go. Now, it really wouldn't matter to me if we got rid of Maz, Barber, Browning, Fujita, Sims, Hicks, Woods, Wesley, and Warfield. There are some quality players, but those names scream last place D.

keg in kc
06-22-2005, 02:38 PM
You know, in season's past, I would be upset to see those 3 go. Now, it really wouldn't matter to me if we got rid of Maz, Barber, Browning, Fujita, Sims, Hicks, Woods, Wesley, and Warfield. There are some quality players, but those names scream last place D.I'm with you for every name on that list except for Wesley and Warfield. I think Wesley's primed for a big year, and I think Warfield is irreplaceable at this point. Irreplaceable is in adding a corner (whoever that might be...) and losing him would leave us right back where we started. It's a pragmatic thing. He has value to us as an experienced CB, whether that's as a #2 or as a nickel.

Sims we have to keep for financial reasons, I suppose. Fujita I've always liked for some reason, but wouldn't bother me to see him go. Barber, Browning and especially Hicks and Maz...no tears would be shed. It's a shame, I guess, that we're not as rich in talent (or bodies, even) at positions like DE so that someone like Hicks becomes expendable.

go bowe
06-22-2005, 02:39 PM
It's impossible to tell which linebackers will be cut, but I don't think that Barber, Fujita and Maslowski could be considered roster locks at this point. It wouldn't surprise me to see all three gone if everyone working with the team right now makes it through camp healthy. It's a numbers crunch.i think you're right about barber and maz...

and you're most likely right about fuj...

didn't they let him try fa and nobody was interested?

and didn't dv say after the draft that dj would compete with fuji at the olb spot?

obviously, if they drafted someone to play his spot and only signed him after nobody else wanted him, he probably doesn't fit into gunther's plans...

plus didn't gun recently say that he didn't have any lb's that could play last year (or something very close to that)?

with the exception of mitchell and fox, i think they might get rid of all the lb's from last year...

TRR
06-22-2005, 02:40 PM
I'm with you for every name on that list except for Wesley and Warfield. I think Wesley's primed for a big year, and I think Warfield is irreplaceable at this point. Irreplaceable is in adding a corner (whoever that might be...) and losing him would leave us right back where we started. It's a pragmatic thing. He has value to us as an experienced CB, whether that's as a #2 or as a nickel.

Sims we have to keep for financial reasons, I suppose. Fujita I've always liked for some reason, but wouldn't bother me to see him go. Barber, Browning and especially Hicks and Maz...no tears would be shed.

I to think Wesley and Warfield are solid players. I just don't think any player on our D should feel complacent. With the infusion of new talent on D, I think that message has been sent loud and clear.

keg in kc
06-22-2005, 02:40 PM
plus didn't gun recently say that he didn't have any lb's that could play last year (or something very close to that)?Yes, I believe he did.

keg in kc
06-22-2005, 02:42 PM
Here we are: “I’ve gone from thinking I didn’t have any linebackers who could play, to the group we have now in one year,” said Cunningham. “We’ve made a lot of progress.”

ChiTown
06-22-2005, 02:43 PM
i think you're right about barber and maz...

and you're most likely right about fuj...

.

I think Fuji is a lock to make the team. If nothing else, he provides excellent depth at the SAM. jmho

htismaqe
06-22-2005, 02:43 PM
You bring up an excellent point. But what does Bell being outside have to do with beating Denver?

It's another example of what I feel is Gunther's stubborness and senility. He's always been an "I" guy. Everything revolves around him.

I don't like Gunther and I haven't since he was head coach here. I'm probably seeing more in the Bell situation than is really there, but to me this looks like the same old Gunther.

go bowe
06-22-2005, 02:44 PM
You know, in season's past, I would be upset to see those 3 go. Now, it really wouldn't matter to me if we got rid of Maz, Barber, Browning, Fujita, Sims, Hicks, Woods, Wesley, and Warfield. There are some quality players, but those names scream last place D.you're right that those names, as a group, scream last place d...

that's obvious to everyone...

but you can't replace an entire d in one offseason...

salary cap, limitations on bonus money available, etc.

overall, the braintrust did an excellent job of overhauling the d...

but some of last year's players are going to have to play this year, so let it be the ones who suck the least...

go bowe
06-22-2005, 02:51 PM
I think Fuji is a lock to make the team. If nothing else, he provides excellent depth at the SAM. jmhooh, i agree that fuj would make a decent back-up to johnson...

but for the reasons i mentioned earlier, i would not be surprised to see them let fuj go, especially if fox shows the ability to play both olb spots and does well in camp...

hell, who knows (calling roy, calling roy)? scanlon might turn out to be a decent backup at all 3 spots...

and cb and dl and probably wr in a pinch... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

go bowe
06-22-2005, 02:55 PM
It's another example of what I feel is Gunther's stubborness and senility. He's always been an "I" guy. Everything revolves around him.

I don't like Gunther and I haven't since he was head coach here. I'm probably seeing more in the Bell situation than is really there, but to me this looks like the same old Gunther.you're probably right about gun being stubborn...

but it's all right with me if he is stubborn and even if he's just an average dc...

so long as he produces at least an average defense that occasionally takes the ball away, our offense should win a lot of games, even against the better (play-off) teams...

i'm thinking this might be a very exciting season... [panting with anticipation smilie]

TEX
06-22-2005, 03:08 PM
You know, in season's past, I would be upset to see those 3 go. Now, it really wouldn't matter to me if we got rid of Maz, Barber, Browning, Fujita, Sims, Hicks, Woods, Wesley, and Warfield. There are some quality players, but those names scream last place D.

Which is why I SCREAMED when most were re-signed to new deals following the '03 season. :cuss: Easily one of the dumbest moves by any team ever. :shake:

philfree
06-22-2005, 04:47 PM
Vermeil was on 810 this morning talking about some stuff most of us already know..

Key Fox is ready to be a starter (whether he will be or not is yet to be determined)

Fredex is a talented reciever and good in traffic (per Vermeil)

Going to bring in some CB vets to try to shore things up.. Vermeil sounds like he isnt' comfortable with the current situation at CB

Waters is out of shape but Vermeil trusts that he will get back in shape.

But the eye opener to me was that he said Sampson would probably be the opening day RT... I was under the impression that it was Blacks job to lose.. but I guess Sampson is really looking good.

I think Black is going to back up Roaf at the LT position. Isn't he? It'd sure be nice if some of the O Linemen we've been drafting the last 3-4 years would turn up Aces like Waters did.(I know he was an undrafted FA pick-up) But still.....

PhilFree:arrow:

TEX
06-22-2005, 04:50 PM
I think Black is going to back up Roaf at the LT position. Isn't he? It'd sure be nice if some of the O Linemen we've been drafting the last 3-4 years would turn up Aces like Waters did.(I know he was an undrafted FA pick-up) But still.....

PhilFree:arrow:

Sampson played it last preseason and he held his own. He looked much better than Williams who played LT worst than anyone I've ver seen at any level.

htismaqe
06-22-2005, 04:55 PM
Black needs to be ready to step in at LT in case, God forbid, Willie goes down.

Having Sampson beat Black out for the RT spot may be a very good thing.

Pants
06-22-2005, 04:58 PM
It's another example of what I feel is Gunther's stubborness and senility.

Senile? He isn't that old, is he?

I can't believe most people in this thread are ignoring Waters being out of shape. I'm kinda disappointed in the guy.

TRR
06-22-2005, 05:00 PM
Senile? He isn't that old, is he?

I can't believe most people in this thread are ignoring Waters being out of shape. I'm kinda disappointed in the guy.

He's earned it. They work so hard in Training camp, Waters will be back in shape in no time.

htismaqe
06-22-2005, 05:00 PM
Senile? He isn't that old, is he?

I can't believe most people in this thread are ignoring Waters being out of shape. I'm kinda disappointed in the guy.

I think people are ignoring it because most reports are that it's not true.

Several teammates and media members have said the Waters is in pretty good shape. Only Vermeil has said otherwise. Just another "diaper" incident probably.

milkman
06-22-2005, 05:02 PM
Black needs to be ready to step in at LT in case, God forbid, Willie goes down.

Having Sampson beat Black out for the RT spot may be a very good thing.

This is only speculation, but could this be a case where Black is really developing into a solid LT prospect, and because the mechanics of LT and RT are a little different, and the coaches don't want to mess with the mechanics of a young up and comer in case he is needed to replace Roaf sooner than expected.

Mr. Laz
06-22-2005, 05:14 PM
Derrick Thomas?

he was linebacker only in name


he was a rushbacker/defensive end for the most part

JimNasium
06-22-2005, 06:19 PM
I'm excited about the tackles but a little worried about the guard and center depth. Welborne would be fine but do we have any young talent at those positions?

TRR
06-22-2005, 06:22 PM
I'm excited about the tackles but a little worried about the guard and center depth. Welborne would be fine but do we have any young talent at those positions? Chris Bober is also very solid depth at Guard, Center, and occasionally Tackle.

go bowe
06-22-2005, 06:43 PM
and black at guard or tackle...

patteeu
06-22-2005, 07:02 PM
If Vermeil is still saying that Fox is ready to be a starter after DJ signs his contract then I'll take notice.

the Talking Can
06-22-2005, 07:03 PM
If Vermeil is still saying that Fox is ready to be a starter after DJ signs his contract then I'll take notice.

bingo

Rain Man
06-22-2005, 07:08 PM
Sampson played it last preseason and he held his own. He looked much better than Williams who played LT worst than anyone I've ver seen at any level.

No kidding. I think they changed the back of his jersey to read Won'tiams after that. I was very surprised that he made the team.

Calcountry
06-22-2005, 07:27 PM
So where does this leave Scanlon? "He will have a spot on this football team"Linebackers for 300 Alex:
wazam wahoop wazam zam zam, you've just picked, THE DAILY DOUBLE.

I'll bet a thousand Alex.

For your Daily Double, here is this photo:

htismaqe
06-23-2005, 08:54 AM
This is only speculation, but could this be a case where Black is really developing into a solid LT prospect, and because the mechanics of LT and RT are a little different, and the coaches don't want to mess with the mechanics of a young up and comer in case he is needed to replace Roaf sooner than expected.

That's EXACTLY what I was thinking.