PDA

View Full Version : Pick your all-time greatest Chiefs players, Part 1


Rain Man
07-03-2005, 05:35 PM
As a fortissimo in my "Pick your all-time greatest..." series, we now come to the Chiefs.

As we all know, there have been many, many great Chiefs, and I can't pick just 25 for the poll, so we'll make it a democratic process. I'm going to post 10 polls that contain every Chiefs player who either a) was on the roster for five or more years, OR b) started for the Chiefs for at least two seasons.

I'm getting my information from the Chiefs' media guide, so don't pick on me if you think someone did or did not start in certain years. I'm just regurgitating the official information, and perhaps a worm or two.

In each of the upcoming ten polls (to be posted over the next couple of weeks, and working in alphabetical order), I'll ask you to pick the FIVE greatest players on that list. I'll then take the top five choices from each of those polls and develop a second round that contains only the top 50 players. We'll then narrow it down from there in a manner to be determined.

On each poll, I'll list the player's name, position, college, jersey number, years with the Chiefs, and years as a starter with the Chiefs.

Ready? Here's Poll #1.

Rain Man
07-03-2005, 05:43 PM
As far as I know, this is the only poll in history that has included William Bartee and Bobby Bell as competing options.

Ultra Peanut
07-03-2005, 05:50 PM
Go Kimble!

luv
07-03-2005, 05:53 PM
Marcus Allen.

And this is my first post on an actual football thread.

milkman
07-03-2005, 05:55 PM
Marcus Allen.

And this is my first post on an actual football thread.

So are you saying, from this list, Marcus is the greatest?

Crush
07-03-2005, 05:55 PM
Go J.J!!!

I still remember his 4th down TD catch in the Pittsburgh game.

milkman
07-03-2005, 05:56 PM
Marcus Allen.

And this is my first post on an actual football thread.

Oh, and congrats!

Crush
07-03-2005, 05:57 PM
Go J.J!!!

I still remember his 4th down TD catch in the Pittsburgh game.



:banghead: That was Tim Barnett.

However, he did catch Montana's second TD pass in the Houston game. So Go J.J.!!!

luv
07-03-2005, 06:00 PM
So are you saying, from this list, Marcus is the greatest?

See, I am a Chiefs fan. I love to watch football, and I do understand it, but I have little knowledge of player background, draft picks, training camp, etc. I have been reading the football threads and learning some as I go. I've been afraid to contribute anything in fear of looking as ignorant as I am...lol.

Long story short, of the ones I know on the list, I went with Marcus Allen. I almost went with Bobby Bell, but I do not know as much about him.

Rain Man
07-03-2005, 06:02 PM
Okay, I must make an argument for Gary Barbaro and John Alt here.

First, we have Gary Barbaro. He played with the Chiefs for seven years, and compiled 39 interceptions, or an average of more than 5 per year. He was a three-time pro bowler, and was a colossal hitter. In my opinion as an old-timer, he was the hardest-hitting safety to ever wear a Chiefs uniform. Sure, he broke our hearts by defecting to the USFL, but after 23 years I'm almost ready to forgive him. He definitely deserves consideration as a great Chief.

And as for John Alt, what can we say? The guy played 13 years in the league, all for the Chiefs. He was a two-time pro bowler, and would've gone to many more if Dan Marino's quick release hadn't caused many to overrate Richmond Webb. Here's what the Chiefs web site says about Mr. Alt as they introduced him to the Chiefs Hall of Fame.

"Monumental Minnesotan anchored Kansas City’s offensive line for 13 seasons from his left tackle post. The stoic standard-bearer by which all future Kansas City left tackles will be judged. Played a prodigious part in the resurgence of the Chiefs franchise in the ‘90s Š Jim Tyrer (180) was the only offensive lineman in team history to play in more games than Alt (179). Started 149 of those games and owns a share of a franchise record by making 10 career playoff appearances, including the ‘93 AFC Championship Game. Earned back-to-back Pro Bowl trips following the ‘92 and ‘93 seasons. An All-Pro pick in ‘90-91. A prolific pass protector, also helped Kansas City perennially produce some of the best rushing numbers in the ‘90s. The Chiefs led the NFL in rushing for the first time in team history in ‘95 and produced five top 10 finishes during his tenure. Wore jersey number 76. Was a first round draft choice out of Iowa in ‘84, the third offensive lineman selected overall. Born May 30, 1962 in Stuttgart, Germany."

milkman
07-03-2005, 06:08 PM
See, I am a Chiefs fan. I love to watch football, and I do understand it, but I have little knowledge of player background, draft picks, training camp, etc. I have been reading the football threads and learning some as I go. I've been afraid to contribute anything in fear of looking as ignorant as I am...lol.

Long story short, of the ones I know on the list, I went with Marcus Allen. I almost went with Bobby Bell, but I do not know as much about him.

I hope you didn't think I was ridiculing you.
I just wanted to clarify your position.

I am not a big fan of Marcus, but in all objectivity, I couldn't leave him off the list of 5 in this group.

You should have voted for Bobby Bell.
He is one of the 2 greatest ever.

luv
07-03-2005, 06:11 PM
I hope you didn't think I was ridiculing you.
I just wanted to clarify your position.

I am not a big fan of Marcus, but in all objectivity, I couldn't leave him off the list of 5 in this group.

You should have voted for Bobby Bell.
He is one of the 2 greatest ever.
Getting ridiculed? On CP? No way! ROFL

I just felt good looking at the results and seeing others had voted for him, too. I didn't feel quite so bad, so I decided to actually post my answer.

milkman
07-03-2005, 06:14 PM
Getting ridiculed? On CP? No way! ROFL

I just felt good looking at the results and seeing others had voted for him, too. I didn't feel quite so bad, so I decided to actually post my answer.

Yeah, I know, it's unheard of.
We have such a warm, loving family atmosphere here. :)

Chieficus
07-03-2005, 06:15 PM
Okay, I must make an argument for Gary Barbaro and John Alt here.

Bell was the only one that truly stood out as "super-mega-great" on this list. Don't know a thing about Barbaro, but I gotta agree with you on Alt.

I only remember the end of his career right before Criswell stepped in, but I remember him being a stud...

After that there's Anders... Allen...

Then the list begins to drop...

Dave Lane
07-03-2005, 06:16 PM
GEt Bartees name off there its insulting to Chiefs fans, you bol weevil in Dungver clothing! :)

Dave

Dave Lane
07-03-2005, 06:17 PM
I hope you didn't think I was ridiculing you.
I just wanted to clarify your position.

I am not a big fan of Marcus, but in all objectivity, I couldn't leave him off the list of 5 in this group.

You should have voted for Bobby Bell.
He is one of the 2 greatest ever.


Opps I only picked Kevin's usual 3 hmmm might have got Allen in under the wire in that case.

Dave

luv
07-03-2005, 06:19 PM
Helps if I read everything. I only voted for one. :doh!:

Rain Man
07-03-2005, 06:20 PM
GEt Bartees name off there its insulting to Chiefs fans, you bol weevil in Dungver clothing! :)

Dave


If you think that was bad, wait until I get to the E's. Everyone with five years or two starting years will be in the poll. Everyone.

Rain Man
07-03-2005, 06:22 PM
Bell was the only one that truly stood out as "super-mega-great" on this list. Don't know a thing about Barbaro, but I gotta agree with you on Alt.

I only remember the end of his career right before Criswell stepped in, but I remember him being a stud...

After that there's Anders... Allen...

Then the list begins to drop...


Yeah, Bell's a no-brainer (sorry, luv2rite). I was just disappointed to not see Barbaro getting more votes since he was a great player, and I couldn't resist putting a plug in for Alt while I was at it. I worry more about those two not making the next round than I do Bell, who should be a lock.

Rain Man
07-03-2005, 06:38 PM
C'mon, people! Barbaro!

A couple of guys that I liked who probably won't get many votes were Rich Baldinger and Ed Beckman. They both were long-time loyal backups who were always there when needed. I liked those guys.

Ultra Peanut
07-03-2005, 06:39 PM
Allen, Marcus RB 32 Southern California 1993-97 1993-96
Alt, John T 76 Iowa 1984-96 1987-96
Anders, Kimble FB 38 Houston 1991-00 1993-98, 00
Bell, Bobby LB 78 Minnesota 1963-74 1963-74
Birden, J.J. WR 88 Oregon 1990-94 1992-94

Jenson71
07-03-2005, 06:43 PM
WERJHERE'S SACANLON1222!!!!!!!!!!!

Rain Man
07-03-2005, 06:45 PM
WERJHERE'S SACANLON1222!!!!!!!!!!!

As good as he is, even he can't subjugate the mighty alphabetical order system.

Jenson71
07-03-2005, 06:47 PM
ROFL

Keep f*cking doubting Scanlon overcoming the alphabetical system!

Chieficus
07-03-2005, 06:47 PM
BTW...

If anyone wants the stats on any of these guys, check out:

http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/teams.nsf/histories/chiefs

It's great for the offense, so/so for the defense (I don't think it even has sack statistics before the mid-70s), but it's one of the most comprehensive sites I've found for the entire NFL...

FloridaChief
07-03-2005, 06:51 PM
I went with

Aguiar (ughhh...)
Arbanas
Bell (of course)

Oh--and if anyone votes on this poll and doesn't check off on Bobby Bell, please post this fact on a thread, so I can keep a running tab of the most know-nothing, shit-stupidest so-called Chiefs fans in the world are...

Thanks.

old_geezer
07-03-2005, 08:00 PM
Bell
Alt
Arbanas

After that I settled for Barbaro and Anders although I don't believe either of them belong on the final list. :shake:

Skip Towne
07-03-2005, 08:11 PM
I went with

Aguiar (ughhh...)
Arbanas
Bell (of course)

Oh--and if anyone votes on this poll and doesn't check off on Bobby Bell, please post this fact on a thread, so I can keep a running tab of the most know-nothing, shit-stupidest so-called Chiefs fans in the world are...

Thanks.
I'll back you up on this. When it comes to know-nothing and shit stupid, you are the expert.

FloridaChief
07-03-2005, 08:20 PM
I'll back you up on this. When it comes to know-nothing and shit stupid, you are the expert.

As a ChiefsPlanet legacy, I think that I have the right to demand that in the future, when you yip-yap an ineffectual reply to my posts, please to be removing your mummified tongue from the asshole of every female 'Planet member first...

That way we can all be stupified by your ignorant, unmuffled idiocies.

Thanks...

CHIEF4EVER
07-03-2005, 08:41 PM
Allen, Alt, Anders, Arbanas and Bell.

Dr. Van Halen
07-03-2005, 08:51 PM
I went with

Aguiar (ughhh...)
Arbanas
Bell (of course)

Oh--and if anyone votes on this poll and doesn't check off on Bobby Bell, please post this fact on a thread, so I can keep a running tab of the most know-nothing, shit-stupidest so-called Chiefs fans in the world are...

Thanks.

Hello, chum. Say, it's a bit rough to say these things after you seemingly voted for Aguiar. Unless, of course, that was a joke.


The way I see it, we all can agree that Allen, Alt, and Bell are locks.

The question is whom should you take from Arbanas, Barbaro, and Anders. I went with Arbanas and Barbaro. Anders was great, but I see him as a product of our offense -- and frankly T. Richardson was an upgrade.

Skip Towne
07-03-2005, 08:52 PM
As a ChiefsPlanet legacy, I think that I have the right to demand that in the future, when you yip-yap an ineffectual reply to my posts, please to be removing your mummified tongue from the asshole of every female 'Planet member first...

That way we can all be stupified by your ignorant, unmuffled idiocies.

Thanks...
You are retarted. I was just trying to be friendly.

cdcox
07-03-2005, 08:53 PM
Bobbly Bell - no comment needed
Marcus Allen - ditto
John Alt - good to see him getting the recognition he deserves
Fred Arbanas - should be getting a bit more attention. I'll pimp him more below.
Gary Barabaro - 3 time pro-bowler and a key member of a great secondary


Guys I was sorry didn't make the cut:
Mike Bell - good contributer on defensive line 52 career sacks
Kimble Anders - good role player, great guy, but getting too many votes in this poll. Arbanas had nearly twice the career TDs and is barely keeping up in the poll.

JJ Birden: Please. His best season was very comparable to Johnie Morton last year. There are much better choices.

Now for Arbanas: Was selected All-AFL 5 times and named to the all time NFL team. 34 career touchdowns are more than anyone in the poll except Morton Anderson. Played with a glass eye in most of his games. After one violent collinon, the glass eye popped out and rolled across the field. Arbanas picked it up, walked over to the side line, swished it around in a bucket of water and popped it back in, all while an official looked on in astonishment. Finally he asked Arbanas "What would you do if the other eye was like that?" Without missing a beat Arbanas replied "I'd become a referee like you."

Phobia
07-03-2005, 08:56 PM
I accidentally glossed over Alt. Didn't even see him. I voted for Mike Bell instead.

Skip Towne
07-03-2005, 08:56 PM
I had to vote for Tom Barndt and Fred Arbanas because they are oddities. "Two Way Tom Barndt" played on both sides of the ball. OG and DT. "Cyclops" Arbanas had only one good eye. He got an eye put out in a street fight. Betcha those damn n00bs didn't know that shit, didja? Huh, didja?

cdcox
07-03-2005, 09:00 PM
I had to vote for Tom Barndt and Fred Arbanas because they are oddities. "Two Way Tom Barndt" played on both sides of the ball. OG and DT. "Cyclops" Arbanas had only one good eye. He got an eye put out in a street fight. Betcha those damn n00bs didn't know that shit, didja? Huh, didja?

See post 33 for an amusing anectdote concerning one-eyed Arbanas.

Skip Towne
07-03-2005, 09:03 PM
Where's Mike Bell's brother? Didn't he play TE or something for us?

FloridaChief
07-03-2005, 09:16 PM
You are retarted. I was just trying to be friendly.

Oh we’re so pretty oh so pretty vacant...

plbrdude
07-03-2005, 09:31 PM
i can't believe bartee actually has two votes. these must have come from donkey fans.

chefsos
07-03-2005, 09:44 PM
Marcus, Arbanas, Bobby Bell = easy choices.
Alt- Solid as they come.
Anders- Still remember the game he just went apesh*t running through some team (Can't remember which one), then tore up his knee. A shame.

By the way, this is my first post ever. Whew!

Phobia
07-03-2005, 09:45 PM
Marcus, Arbanas, Bobby Bell = easy choices.
Alt- Solid as they come.
Anders- Still remember the game he just went apesh*t running through some team (Can't remember which one), then tore up his knee. A shame.

By the way, this is my first post ever. Whew!

Welcome aboard.

Denver. Blew out his Achilles, not his knee.

chefsos
07-03-2005, 09:48 PM
Welcome aboard.

Denver. Blew out his Achilles, not his knee.

Arghh! Rookie mistake. I'll take my seat on the bench now. Thanks for the welcome.

cdcox
07-03-2005, 09:49 PM
Marcus, Arbanas, Bobby Bell = easy choices.
Alt- Solid as they come.
Anders- Still remember the game he just went apesh*t running through some team (Can't remember which one), then tore up his knee. A shame.

By the way, this is my first post ever. Whew!

4 out of 5 correct (should have had Barbaro instead of Anders). Not bad for a n00b. Welcome aboard!

Phobia
07-03-2005, 09:54 PM
Arghh! Rookie mistake. I'll take my seat on the bench now. Thanks for the welcome.

No worries. You had a strong first post despite the mistake. You'll be fine. Hang out around here enough and you'll have all those details committed to memory soon.

papasmurf
07-03-2005, 09:56 PM
Oops I missed Marcus.

chefsos
07-03-2005, 09:57 PM
4 out of 5 correct (should have had Barbaro instead of Anders). Not bad for a n00b. Welcome aboard!

Thanks. Barbaro v. Anders was a tough choice for me. I flipped a coin.

cdcox
07-03-2005, 10:03 PM
Thanks. Barbaro v. Anders was a tough choice for me. I flipped a coin.

Yeah, I spent at least 10 minutes selecting from Barbaro, Mike Bell and Anders. But once I looked objectively at their contributions, I felt pretty good about my choice.

DJay23
07-03-2005, 10:04 PM
B. Bell
Arbanas
Barbaro
Alt
Allen

Logical
07-03-2005, 10:04 PM
Sorry but I just don't see enough great Chiefs to warrant this poll being done this way. Heck if you just start with Chiefs in the Chiefs Hall of Fame add Shields, Roaf, Richardson, Gonzalez and Priest you probably have sufficient candidates for the poll.

I mean you should not put Bartee on there even for comedic purpose, so great an insult it is to the others.

Skip Towne
07-03-2005, 10:06 PM
Yeah, I spent at least 10 minutes selecting from Barbaro, Mike Bell and Anders. But once I looked objectively at their contributions, I felt pretty good about my choice.
Anders was a crowd favorite but was really just a journeyman. Barbaro was a star and Bell not far behind.

Pants
07-03-2005, 10:08 PM
Marcus, JJ and Bell. I don't know much Chiefs history, though.

HemiEd
07-03-2005, 10:14 PM
Wow, just like the poll, I have Bobby Bell with John Alt second. I witnessed the whole Alt career but went Bobby Bell. Tough decision. :hmmm:

cdcox
07-03-2005, 10:14 PM
Sorry but I just don't see enough great Chiefs to warrant this poll being done this way. Heck if you just start with Chiefs in the Chiefs Hall of Fame add Shields, Roaf, Richardson, Gonzalez and Priest you probably have sufficient candidates for the poll.

I mean you should not put Bartee on there even for comedic purpose, so great an insult it is to the others.


I really like the format. It will generate some good discussion and give an opportunity to re-live some memories. It also gives an opportunity to sing the accolades of some of the lesser but still cherished heros of the Red and Gold. Through the process the final votes are likely to be more informed, especially for those fans to young to remember the AFL Chiefs.

Logical
07-03-2005, 10:18 PM
P.S I believe only three on that list even merit consideration

Bobby Bell (might as weill put him in the top five and avoid wasting time_.

Fred Arbamas (Clearly only Gonzalez and Otis Taylor warrant more consideration of Chiefs pass catchers a motley crew if ever we had one)

Marcus Allen (only because Chief running backs have had a short shelf life and Marcus's achievements are clearly in the top 5 of running backs.

Alt does not make the top 10 of Chiefs offensive lineman

Barbaro does not make the top 10 of Chiefs defensive backs.

The rest of the list are pretty much wastes of Chiefs skin or at best serviceable players at their positions.

Logical
07-03-2005, 10:21 PM
I really like the format. It will generate some good discussion and give an opportunity to re-live some memories. It also gives an opportunity to sing the accolades of some of the lesser but still cherished heros of the Red and Gold. Through the process the final votes are likely to be more informed, especially for those fans to young to remember the AFL Chiefs.

I suppose if the intent is to have people learn some Chiefs history you are correct, but come on does Bartee really warrant making a best of list, it sort of turns the whole concept into a pathetic joke. Have I ever let it be known how much I detest Bartee?

HemiEd
07-03-2005, 10:26 PM
I just read the whole thread after posting to the thread start post of Rain man. I only voted for one, Bobby Bell. Can Alt and Barbaro be added to my vote, please?

cdcox
07-03-2005, 10:30 PM
Vlad's post, although hyperbolic, contains a nugget of truth.

An interesting observation is that we have been rich in offensive linemen and defensive backs while piss poor in WR and to a lesser extent RB (and QB, but so has everyone else). We've had our share of HOF caliber LB, but the number of very good LB has been subpar. DL is about the same. It will be interesting to see the final list develop.

Phobia
07-03-2005, 10:31 PM
I just read the whole thread after posting to the thread start post of Rain man. I only voted for one, Bobby Bell. Can Alt and Barbaro be added to my vote, please?

I don't think cdcox has to worry about you challenging for his job anytime soon.

cdcox
07-03-2005, 10:35 PM
I suppose if the intent is to have people learn some Chiefs history you are correct, but come on does Bartee really warrant making a best of list, it sort of turns the whole concept into a pathetic joke. Have I ever let it be known how much I detest Bartee?

Rainman was looking for an objective standard for inclusion of consideration. The one he picked happens to envelope some much-hated Chiefs.

The best thing I can say about Bartee is that he has become a staple of comedic material on the planet. What can Mark Adickes say say his contribution was?

Phobia
07-03-2005, 10:46 PM
If the Planet had been around in 89, Markadick would have provided his share of comedic gold around here.

Logical
07-03-2005, 10:49 PM
Rainman was looking for an objective standard for inclusion of consideration. The one he picked happens to envelope some much-hated Chiefs.

The best thing I can say about Bartee is that he has become a staple of comedic material on the planet. What can Mark Adickes say say his contribution was?Well if we are talking comedy gold Morris Stroud damn well better make the list.

cdcox
07-03-2005, 10:52 PM
Well if we are talking comedy gold Morris Stroud damn well better make the list.

KC used to line him up under the goal posts to block FG before they made a rule against it (The Morris Stroud rule???). Great fried chicken though.

Skip Towne
07-03-2005, 10:58 PM
P.S I believe only three on that list even merit consideration

Bobby Bell (might as weill put him in the top five and avoid wasting time_.

Fred Arbamas (Clearly only Gonzalez and Otis Taylor warrant more consideration of Chiefs pass catchers a motley crew if ever we had one)

Marcus Allen (only because Chief running backs have had a short shelf life and Marcus's achievements are clearly in the top 5 of running backs.

Alt does not make the top 10 of Chiefs offensive lineman

Barbaro does not make the top 10 of Chiefs defensive backs.

The rest of the list are pretty much wastes of Chiefs skin or at best serviceable players at their positions.
Well, thank you Jim. I think Alt is a fraud. He was decent but injured all the time with back problems. Can't sniff a bunch of other Chiefs O Linemen.

Logical
07-03-2005, 10:59 PM
KC used to line him up under the goal posts to block FG before they made a rule against it (The Morris Stroud rule???). Great fried chicken though.

I remember it well, and if people think Snoop Minnis had a ridiculous neck and was a stick they should have seen Stroud.

Skip Towne
07-03-2005, 11:04 PM
KC used to line him up under the goal posts to block FG before they made a rule against it (The Morris Stroud rule???). Great fried chicken though.
Not saying they didn't but I don't remember them making any rule against it. It just didn't work with Stroud. He never batted down a single kick.

Rudy lost the toss
07-03-2005, 11:18 PM
Darnell Alford, Taje Allen, William Bartee, Jason Baker, and Jason Belser

cdcox
07-03-2005, 11:20 PM
Not saying they didn't but I don't remember them making any rule against it. It just didn't work with Stroud. He never batted down a single kick.


No he didn't. But he put the fear in them so they had to make a rule.

Rain Man
07-04-2005, 01:36 AM
Well, thank you Jim. I think Alt is a fraud. He was decent but injured all the time with back problems. Can't sniff a bunch of other Chiefs O Linemen.

(Strangling noises.) Alt? John Alt? The anchor of our line for a decade?

I know that he missed most of his first few seasons with the back problems, but I don't remember him missing much (or any) time after he finally got onto the field. Am I remembering wrong?

I do remember that he came to us in the first round, via a pick that we received by trading all-pro CB Gary Green. (Green and Barbaro were the nucleus of a pretty good secondary, by the way.) Then Alt got hurt and missed his first couple of seasons. I was disgusted and put him down as a bust right next to Brian Jozwiak. Then all of a sudden Alt reappeared, and didn't relinquish the LT spot for ten years.

Rain Man
07-04-2005, 01:37 AM
No he didn't. But he put the fear in them so they had to make a rule.

I wonder how many kicks were ever blocked in that manner. I know that it happened at least once. I think it was R.C. Owens, but I could be wrong. I don't know if it happened more than once, though.

Rausch
07-04-2005, 01:40 AM
No Okoye or Thomas, no vote! :cuss:

Rain Man
07-04-2005, 01:43 AM
No Okoye or Thomas, no vote! :cuss:

I would've included them if their names were Bokoye and Bhomas. Their turn will come, though.

Phobia
07-04-2005, 01:46 AM
I would've included them if their names were Bokoye and Bhomas. Their turn will come, though.

He's not through with college yet. I think some of his coursework next semester (in his 10th year of college) includes alphebetical order.

cdcox
07-04-2005, 01:51 AM
OK, I admit I had to google RC Owens. Cool story. But RC blocked his field goal in 1962. It wasn't until
Morris "Too Tall" Stroud appeard on the scene that the NFL banned the goal tending in the NFL in the 1970s

Professional football player R.C. Owens nicknamed Alley Oop was considered one of the greatest leapers in NFL history. His jumping skills were so considerable that in addition to football he was also an accomplished athlete in both basketball and the high jump. In the high jump, in fact, he recorded a jump of nearly seven feet.

With this in mind, Owens and some of his teammates came up with the idea that Owens might be a formidable field goal blocker, only not in the traditional sense. They reasoned that longer field goals, if they make it at all, usually just miss the crossbar. So Owens decided to try blocking the attempt, not at the line of scrimmage, but in the end zone at the crossbar.

In 1962, Owens, playing for the Baltimore Colts, stood in the end zone and blocked a 40-plus yard field goal attempt by Bob Khayat of the Washington Redskins by leaping in the air and flipping the ball away as it was about to eke over the crossbar.

His victory was short-lived, because not long after, the NFL changed the rule and made this kind of block illegal. It's a good thing, too, otherwise modern fans might be putting up with high-flying basketball player, Dennis Rodman, through two sports seasons.

Rain Man
07-04-2005, 02:00 AM
4 out of 5 correct (should have had Barbaro instead of Anders). Not bad for a n00b. Welcome aboard!

I must admit that I went a slightly different route. To me, Bell, Alt, and Barbaro were obvious choices, and then I went with Arbanas as well.

However, I picked Anders over Marcus Allen. One cannot underestimate Allen's value in short yardage situations, but he only made one pro bowl as a Chief, compared to three for Anders. Anders also gained more yards as a Chief (though that happened over more seasons). I must admit that I also still harbor a bit of a grudge against Marcus for keeping Greg Hill on the bench, even though that was completely Marty's fault, and for retiring with no notice, leaving KC in a lurch.

Anders was class all the way. It was painful seeing him go down in his first game as a feature back, after destroying Denver. I saw him go down on the snap with no one near him, and knew it was going to be bad.

Phobia
07-04-2005, 02:06 AM
I must admit that I went a slightly different route. To me, Bell, Alt, and Barbaro were obvious choices, and then I went with Arbanas as well.

However, I picked Anders over Marcus Allen. One cannot underestimate Allen's value in short yardage situations, but he only made one pro bowl as a Chief, compared to three for Anders. Anders also gained more yards as a Chief (though that happened over more seasons). I must admit that I also still harbor a bit of a grudge against Marcus for keeping Greg Hill on the bench, even though that was completely Marty's fault, and for retiring with no notice, leaving KC in a lurch.

Anders was class all the way. It was painful seeing him go down in his first game as a feature back, after destroying Denver. I saw him go down on the snap with no one near him, and knew it was going to be bad.

Yeah. Anders is the man. I couldn't bring myself to vote for Allen's limited role in KC. That doesn't outweigh Ander's decade of committment. Not even close for me.

Rain Man
07-04-2005, 02:09 AM
Yeah. Anders is the man. I couldn't bring myself to vote for Allen's limited role in KC. That doesn't outweigh Ander's decade of committment. Not even close for me.

True dat. Five years for Allen vs. ten years for Anders. That should count for something.

cdcox
07-04-2005, 02:17 AM
Rainman:"Anders also gained more yards as a Chief "

Allen 45 TDs 4851 yds
Anders 18 TDs 5090 yds

Take your pick of the following insults:
Legalist, Sentimentalist, Myopic, and worst of all....

Teamist

Logical
07-04-2005, 02:26 AM
...
However, I picked Anders over Marcus Allen. One cannot underestimate Allen's value in short yardage situations, but he only made one pro bowl as a Chief, compared to three for Anders. Anders also gained more yards as a Chief (though that happened over more seasons). I must admit that I also still harbor a bit of a grudge against Marcus for keeping Greg Hill on the bench, even though that was completely Marty's fault, and for retiring with no notice, leaving KC in a lurch.
....

That is not true according to the Chiefs website. I think you may be thinking of Abner Haynes.

The top 6 in Chiefs career rushing yards are:

1 Priest Holmes
2 Christian Okoye
3 Ed Podolak
4 Abner Haynes
5 Marcus Allen
6 Mike Garrett

Clearly Marcus had a lot more rushing TDs with 44 second all time on the Chiefs behind Priest Holmes

The only stat I can find with Anders leading Marcus is career receptions.

Logical
07-04-2005, 02:28 AM
Rainman:"Anders also gained more yards as a Chief "

Allen 45 TDs 4851 yds
Anders 18 TDs 5090 yds

Take your pick of the following insults:
Legalist, Sentimentalist, Myopic, and worst of all....

Teamist

OK I did not find a total yards from scrimmage stat, this might be true given all the receptions Anders had over 10 years.

cdcox
07-04-2005, 02:32 AM
I use:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com

Phobia
07-04-2005, 02:47 AM
Let us also not forget Anders was a fullback for all but 3 games. Hence his yards and TDs should count for something.

J Diddy
07-04-2005, 02:56 AM
Let us also not forget Anders was a fullback for all but 3 games. Hence his yards and TDs should count for something.


No pity for Anders.

Funny how everyone loved him and then T-rich made him all but disappear.

Rausch
07-04-2005, 02:58 AM
He's not through with college yet. I think some of his coursework next semester (in his 10th year of college) includes alphebetical order.

Screw that, 6 hours of Spanish and I have me a dee-ploh-mah....**** that English $#it...

Phobia
07-04-2005, 03:00 AM
Screw that, 6 hours of Spanish and I have me a dee-ploh-mah....**** that English $#it...

Hell, take your Yukon down to Nogales and you'll get about 10 hours of Spanish.

keg in kc
07-04-2005, 03:43 AM
Like anyone other than "The Dominator" deserves a vote. Silly people.

Rausch
07-04-2005, 03:59 AM
WTF is Szott and Webster? Offensive lineman not good enough for you? HUH!?!

Rausch
07-04-2005, 04:21 AM
*smacks you upside your empty skull*

*sigh*

I've been playing thread-dumb-guy for quite a while now hoping to piss off stick-boy.

Only it seems everyone outside of him pointed out the obvious...

keg in kc
07-04-2005, 04:23 AM
Oh. Sorry. Didn't mean to step on your master plan. Carry on. I'll edit the evidence away.

Rausch
07-04-2005, 04:27 AM
Oh. Sorry. Didn't mean to step on your master plan. Carry on. I'll edit the evidence away.

Don't bother, it wasn't working anyway.

Rain Man
07-04-2005, 09:46 AM
*sigh*

I've been playing thread-dumb-guy for quite a while now hoping to piss off stick-boy.

Only it seems everyone outside of him pointed out the obvious...


Actually, I thought you brought up some very good points.


(Two can play at the thread-dumb-guy game...)

Rain Man
07-04-2005, 11:11 AM
Mark Adickes is going to beat up the four people that put Bartee ahead of him in the voting.

Zebedee DuBois
07-04-2005, 12:03 PM
From this list I chose:
Allen
Alt
Anders
Arbanas
Bell

This is a little difficult, because I wasn't really paying attention before 1987.

And I will cop to homerism for my Anders selection. I was really rooting for him for (it seemed like) three preseasons, only to have him get injured and not play much. When he finally got in there, he was very steady. Darn his tendon for ruining his tail back experiment.

milkman
07-04-2005, 03:39 PM
Hey Rain Man.

I've decided to tell you who the all time greatest Chiefs are to save you some trouble.

Starting with number
5-Otis Taylor.
Big, strong, fast receiver who made every catch imaginable.
Priest, if he can stay healthyand continue to produce at the level
he has will slide in here, especially if he can help produce a SB.

4-DT
His ability to get to the QB and create turnovers was second to none.

3-Buck Buchannon.
Revolutionized the DT position.

2-Bobby Bell
Was the most athletic player ever to put on a Chiefs uniform.
A run stuffer. Outstanding in pass coverage. And if utilized more as a
pass rusher, he would have been among the best ever.
Think Lawrence Taylor, without the drugs.

1-Willie Lanier.
Was the heart and soul of some great KC defenses.
One of the top 3 MLB ever to play the game.
Smart team leader and just a ferocious hitter.

Rain Man
07-04-2005, 03:42 PM
I have a feeling that several of those guys will move on to the next round, sidewinder.

Logical
07-04-2005, 06:35 PM
I use:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com


Thanks, I lost that website in the great harddrive crash of oughtfive.

FloridaChief
07-04-2005, 07:24 PM
Hey Rain Man.

I've decided to tell you who the all time greatest Chiefs are to save you some trouble.

Starting with number
5-Otis Taylor.
Big, strong, fast receiver who made every catch imaginable.
Priest, if he can stay healthyand continue to produce at the level
he has will slide in here, especially if he can help produce a SB.

4-DT
His ability to get to the QB and create turnovers was second to none.

3-Buck Buchannon.
Revolutionized the DT position.

2-Bobby Bell
Was the most athletic player ever to put on a Chiefs uniform.
A run stuffer. Outstanding in pass coverage. And if utilized more as a
pass rusher, he would have been among the best ever.
Think Lawrence Taylor, without the drugs.

1-Willie Lanier.
Was the heart and soul of some great KC defenses.
One of the top 3 MLB ever to play the game.
Smart team leader and just a ferocious hitter.


As great as any Chiefs-related post ever on this BB. Rep.

chiefs4me
07-04-2005, 08:27 PM
It was hard to choose just 5....

KChiefs1
07-04-2005, 08:32 PM
I can see a possible problem with your poll's Rain Man(btw, I have been enjoying them)....you are sure to run into a alpha break where the voting for just five Chiefs is going to be harder than this. What I'm saying is that someone of lesser ilk might make the top 50 over someone who would be more deserving. I don't know if you'll run into an alpha break where there could be more than five, but it's a definite possibility.

go bowe
07-04-2005, 08:55 PM
an alpha break?

is that like a cousin to alpha male? :shrug: :shrug: :shrug:

Logical
07-04-2005, 08:58 PM
I can see a possible problem with your poll's Rain Man(btw, I have been enjoying them)....you are sure to run into a alpha break where the voting for just five Chiefs is going to be harder than this. What I'm saying is that someone of lesser ilk might make the top 50 over someone who would be more deserving. I don't know if you'll run into an alpha break where there could be more than five, but it's a definite possibility.

Great Point

milkman
07-04-2005, 09:25 PM
As great as any Chiefs-related post ever on this BB. Rep.

Thanks FC.

I really debated on posting that or not.
I didn't want to step on Rain Man's polls.

But the possibility that KCChiefs1 raised occured to me, as well as the possibility that some of the truly great Chiefs of the 60s and 70s that the younger crowd never saw would not make it to the final voting.

I think most of the older crowd would agree with my top 5, even if they don't necessarily agree with the order.

The only "bubble" pick is Otis, and that's because of the accomplisments that Priest has already achieved.
I just felt he needed to produce and stay healthy for a couple of more seasons to bump Otis.

Rain Man
07-04-2005, 09:27 PM
I can see a possible problem with your poll's Rain Man(btw, I have been enjoying them)....you are sure to run into a alpha break where the voting for just five Chiefs is going to be harder than this. What I'm saying is that someone of lesser ilk might make the top 50 over someone who would be more deserving. I don't know if you'll run into an alpha break where there could be more than five, but it's a definite possibility.

Yeah, that's certainly a potential issue. I'm having people vote for their top five, but I may take more or less than five from any particular poll. After worrying about this myself, my initial solution is that anybody receiving more than 10 percent of the votes (which in this case would equate to votes by more than 50 percent of the people since each person gets five votes) will go on to the next round. On this particular poll, that works out to five people.

I might just see how the polls work out and take the natural breakpoint, too.

Skip Towne
07-04-2005, 09:34 PM
Hey Rain Man.

I've decided to tell you who the all time greatest Chiefs are to save you some trouble.

Starting with number
5-Otis Taylor.
Big, strong, fast receiver who made every catch imaginable.
Priest, if he can stay healthyand continue to produce at the level
he has will slide in here, especially if he can help produce a SB.

4-DT
His ability to get to the QB and create turnovers was second to none.

3-Buck Buchannon.
Revolutionized the DT position.

2-Bobby Bell
Was the most athletic player ever to put on a Chiefs uniform.
A run stuffer. Outstanding in pass coverage. And if utilized more as a
pass rusher, he would have been among the best ever.
Think Lawrence Taylor, without the drugs.

1-Willie Lanier.
Was the heart and soul of some great KC defenses.
One of the top 3 MLB ever to play the game.
Smart team leader and just a ferocious hitter.
A high school QB, Bell was also our emergency QB. He looked good running back interceptions too. Anybody know the height and weight of Bell and Lanier?

milkman
07-04-2005, 09:36 PM
A high school QB, Bell was also our emergency QB. He looked good running back interceptions too. Anybody know the height and weight of Bell and Lanier?

Willie was 6'1" and 245 lbs.

Rain Man
07-04-2005, 09:36 PM
A high school QB, Bell was also our emergency QB. He looked good running back interceptions too. Anybody know the height and weight of Bell and Lanier?

My initial guess is that Lanier was about 6-1, 245, and Bell was 6-3, 235. Let me see if I can find it.

milkman
07-04-2005, 09:38 PM
A high school QB, Bell was also our emergency QB. He looked good running back interceptions too. Anybody know the height and weight of Bell and Lanier?

HOF site has Bobby at 6'4", 228.

Rain Man
07-04-2005, 09:39 PM
Ha! Here's Willie's biography from the Hall of Fame:

http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?player_id=122


Willie Lanier played middle linebacker for the Kansas City Chiefs for 11 seasons from 1967 through 1977. As the first African-American to star at that demanding position, he not only was a true pioneer but also the key man on one of the National Football League's strongest defensive teams.

At 6-1 and 245 pounds, he presented an awesome image to any quarterback who lined up against him. He become known and respected for his ability to track down enemy ball carriers and devastate them with the force of his tackles. He was called "Contact" because of his powerful hits on the opposition. Yet he was intelligent and disciplined and obviously much more than just a hitter in his role as quarterback of the defense.

He was All-Pro, All-AFL or All-AFC every year from 1968 through 1975. He was elected to the last two AFL All-Star games following the 1968 and 1969 seasons, and the first six AFC-NFC Pro Bowl games after the merger. He was the defensive MVP in the 1971 Pro Bowl. For a defensive player, he also did well statistically.

Except for his first and last seasons, he intercepted at least two passes every year and wound up with 27 thefts, which were returned for 440 yards and two touchdowns. He also recovered 18 fumbles. Lanier was a two-time Small College All-America at Morgan State. He was a second-round choice of the Chiefs in the 1967 draft and overcame stiff opposition to grab a starting job in the fourth game of his rookie season. He proved to be one of the most durable of all NFL stars of his time. He missed the last four games of his rookie campaign and then sat out only one more game in the next 10 seasons. He doesn't like phobia.

Rain Man
07-04-2005, 09:42 PM
HOF site has Bobby at 6'4", 228.

Holy cow. Six touchdown returns?

http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?player_id=24

Bobby Bell was the most highly honored college lineman of the 1962 season. His coach at the University of Minnesota described the two-time All-America choice and Outland Trophy winner as “the greatest lineman I have ever seen.”

It’s hard to believe the versatile 6-4, 228-pound Bell actually began his college career as a quarterback. The Kansas City Chiefs of the then-young American Football League were so convinced that Bell would sign with the Minnesota Vikings of the rival National Football League that they didn’t even bother selecting him until the seventh round of the 1963 draft. The University of Minnesota star stunned the pro football world when he opted to sign with the Chiefs. Bell began his 12-year career with Kansas City as a defensive end.

He excelled in coach Hank Stram’s “stack defense,” which called for him to drop out of the 4-3 alignment and become a fourth linebacker. In 1965, after winning all-league honors as a defensive end the previous season, Bell was shifted to outside linebacker. His size and speed made him ideal for the position. As a linebacker he was named All-AFL or All-NFL every year from 1965 through 1971.

During his career, the versatile Bell intercepted 26 passes, returning six for touchdowns. He also scored on an onside kick and two fumble recoveries. Built in the shape of an inverted pyramid with massive shoulders tapering down to a 32-inch waist, Bobby presented a fearsome appearance on the field. He had the physique to withstand as well as deal out punishment. What made him stand out from the crowd was his superior approach to the game, a willingness to play anywhere even when injured and his great joy at just playing the game. Bell was the first Kansas City Chiefs player to be elected to the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

milkman
07-04-2005, 09:47 PM
Ha! Here's Willie's biography from the Hall of Fame:

http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?player_id=122


Willie Lanier played middle linebacker for the Kansas City Chiefs for 11 seasons from 1967 through 1977. As the first African-American to star at that demanding position, he not only was a true pioneer but also the key man on one of the National Football League's strongest defensive teams.

At 6-1 and 245 pounds, he presented an awesome image to any quarterback who lined up against him. He become known and respected for his ability to track down enemy ball carriers and devastate them with the force of his tackles. He was called "Contact" because of his powerful hits on the opposition. Yet he was intelligent and disciplined and obviously much more than just a hitter in his role as quarterback of the defense.

He was All-Pro, All-AFL or All-AFC every year from 1968 through 1975. He was elected to the last two AFL All-Star games following the 1968 and 1969 seasons, and the first six AFC-NFC Pro Bowl games after the merger. He was the defensive MVP in the 1971 Pro Bowl. For a defensive player, he also did well statistically.

Except for his first and last seasons, he intercepted at least two passes every year and wound up with 27 thefts, which were returned for 440 yards and two touchdowns. He also recovered 18 fumbles. Lanier was a two-time Small College All-America at Morgan State. He was a second-round choice of the Chiefs in the 1967 draft and overcame stiff opposition to grab a starting job in the fourth game of his rookie season. He proved to be one of the most durable of all NFL stars of his time. He missed the last four games of his rookie campaign and then sat out only one more game in the next 10 seasons. He doesn't like phobia.

ROFL
Wow, that HOF sure keeps up to date!

Lbedrock1
07-04-2005, 10:01 PM
I would have to say Deron Cherry, Ed Beckman, and Bob Simmons because those are the Chiefs players that I have met personally. Oh yeah JJ Smith because we played high school football together.

HemiEd
07-05-2005, 07:45 AM
I don't think cdcox has to worry about you challenging for his job anytime soon.

ROFL Sometimes I get burned by not reading all of the responses first, this was one of them.

whoman69
07-05-2005, 09:53 AM
I can't believe 10 people did not include Bobby Bell. He is perhaps the greatest Chief of all-time, certainly the most athletic.