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Goapics1
07-05-2005, 12:36 PM
the feds are coming.

Meth is top drug problem for most counties

Survey shows it's heading east after taking root along West Coast


MSNBC
Updated: 11:46 a.m. ET July 5, 2005

The number one drug problem for many counties across the country is not cocaine, heroin or marijuana but methamphetamine, according to a survey released Tuesday.

A synthetic drug that's easily manufactured, meth has spread from the West Coast and is moving east, according to the survey by the National Association of Counties.

Of 500 law enforcement agencies surveyed in 45 states, 58 percent cited meth as their biggest drug problem, dwarfing cocaine (19 percent), marijuana (17 percent) and heroin (3 percent).

The highest meth percentages were along the West Coast and Upper Midwest. In the Northeast, on the other hand, only 4 percent of counties rated meth as their biggest drug problem. Forty-six percent cited heroin as the top problem, followed by cocaine at 21 percent.

A form of speed that is usually smoked, snorted or injected, meth quickly becomes addictive.

87 percent of agencies report increases in meth-related arrests starting three years ago. Arizona, Arkansas, California, Florida, Indiana, Louisiana, Minnesota, Nevada, New Mexico, Ohio, Oregon, South Carolina, Tennessee, Utah, Washington and Wyoming reported 100 percent increases.70 percent say robberies or burglaries have increased because of meth use.62 percent report increases in domestic violence because of meth use.In a report with the survey results, the association described the spread as an "epidemic ... affecting urban, suburban and rural communities nationwide."

The federal government still considers marijuana the top drug problem in the nation, citing a 2003 survey estimating 15 million people who had smoked marijuana over the last month, compared with 600,000 meth users over the previous month.

The counties association, however, said that "county law enforcement officials have a different perspective on this ranking. With the growth of this drug from the rural areas of the western and northwestern regions of this country and its slow but continuing spread to the east, local law enforcement officials see it as their number one drug problem."

Small and large labs
Meth is imported from Mexico, Canada and Asia, the association said, as well as produced in small or large labs across the United States using household ingredients like cold medicines and fertilizer.

"The small lab methamphetamine production and market was originally dominated by motorcycle gangs and local producers chiefly in California and the Pacific northwest," the association said, "but has grown now to include major producers in Mexico who are responsible for the organized trafficking of meth and by the thousands of small producers in nearly all areas of the country."

"Meth can be manufactured in barns, garages, back rooms of businesses, apartments, hotel and motel rooms, storage facilities, vacant buildings and vehicles," the association said — and even a suitcase.

The full report is online at www.naco.org.

trndobrd
07-05-2005, 12:40 PM
uhm...no they're not. Meth has been the largest drug problem in the midwest for the past 15 years and the DEA, FBI, Justice Dept hasn't done much at all.

Why? Because there is no money in it. With cocaine and marijuana there is usually large amounts of cash or property to seize. Charley down the street cooking in his garage? No cash and a broken down '73 Valiant to seize.

Reaper16
07-05-2005, 12:41 PM
Oh, noes! They're coming after Independence, MO!

BIG_DADDY
07-05-2005, 12:42 PM
I think meth is probably the worst drug ever created. For the feds to say weed is our biggest problem is just stupid.

NewChief
07-05-2005, 12:44 PM
uhm...no they're not. Meth has been the largest drug problem in the midwest for the past 15 years and the DEA, FBI, Justice Dept hasn't done much at all.


No kidding. I love how all the articles and reports always claim it started on the West Coast and has moved steadily eastwards. People around here have been cooking and doing that shit for years.

Cochise
07-05-2005, 12:44 PM
uhm...no they're not. Meth has been the largest drug problem in the midwest for the past 15 years and the DEA, FBI, Justice Dept hasn't done much at all.

Why? Because there is no money in it. With cocaine and marijuana there is usually large amounts of cash or property to seize. Charley down the street cooking in his garage? No cash and a broken down '73 Valiant to seize.

Yep... not as much incentive for law enforcement to go after the drug of toofless 'necks and WT degenerates.

Calcountry
07-05-2005, 12:49 PM
I think meth is probably the worst drug ever created. For the feds to say weed is our biggest problem is just stupid.I agree. If anyone is tweeking , they should be able to arrest them on probably cause. Just look at the fuggers, beep beep, skip bang. Road runner, the coyote's after you.

Beep beep skip bang.

This is a dangerous drug to others, because when they are cooking, there is a danger to explosion.

Tweekers try to by Iodine crystals from me all the time. I don't sell them, but once I had a tweeker call me no fewer than 4 times in the same day asking for the shit. Same voice, same answer each time. I guess when its getting rough, they can't remember shit from such a long time ago as 2 minutes.

Skip Towne
07-05-2005, 12:50 PM
uhm...no they're not. Meth has been the largest drug problem in the midwest for the past 15 years and the DEA, FBI, Justice Dept hasn't done much at all.

Why? Because there is no money in it. With cocaine and marijuana there is usually large amounts of cash or property to seize. Charley down the street cooking in his garage? No cash and a broken down '73 Valiant to seize.
Funny how that works ain't it?

Simplex3
07-05-2005, 12:52 PM
No kidding. I love how all the articles and reports always claim it started on the West Coast and has moved steadily eastwards. People around here have been cooking and doing that shit for years.
Don't you know everything good comes from CA?

alpha_omega
07-05-2005, 12:53 PM
No cash and a broken down '73 Valiant to seize.

ROFL

Kerberos
07-05-2005, 12:59 PM
Meth was big around here back in the mid 80's and it was allot better and cleaner than this bathtub shit they are cooking up now.

Back then the ingredients (that were originally used) we controlled and available.....

Then they started controlling the ingredients and harder to get

Then pretty soon they were unavailable unless you have a warranted need for them and on a controlled list of places that they are available to.

Now its a bunch of dirivitives of this and that and it sounds pretty nasty to me all cooked in some tweekers bathtub.

I agree that this problem has been in the MID-West for 20+ years and I know it has been in California for allot longer ... SanDiego has been known as the METH-Capital of the US for a loooooooong time.

I was once in the controlled grasp of teh Meth ... used to like smoking it off of aluminum foil as much as snorting it. Times I will NEVER forget ... but my life is so much better without it. Been at least 15 years since I remember last doing any.

The shit that I've heard people talk about going around now adays is a joke in comparison ... just by the way they talk about it !


IMO


.

Cochise
07-05-2005, 01:00 PM
I guess when its getting rough, they can't remember shit from such a long time ago as 2 minutes.

I saw a thing on TV not long ago about transients that go around huffing spraypaint out of paper bags, those people were just as bad as your average burnout or longtime tweaker. Barely even capable of talking, you know, walking around with paint residue on the bottom of their noses... just a completely wasted human being.

KC Kings
07-05-2005, 01:04 PM
Meth is definatley the drug that people are most proud of.

Everytime you bring it up somebody pipes in with "my town was just named the meth capitol of the United States", like their son just won the MVP of the Little League World Series.

I should start a thread of all the towns/cities that have been proudly proclaimed as the meth capital of the universe.

Independence (started it all with the Rolling Stones story back in the 90's)
Raymore
Belton
Kearny
Knob Knoster
Knob Town
Joliet
New Jersey
and about 500 other cities that I can't think of.

Kerberos
07-05-2005, 01:09 PM
Meth is definatley the drug that people are most proud of.

Everytime you bring it up somebody pipes in with "my town was just named the meth capitol of the United States", like their son just won the MVP of the Little League World Series.

I should start a thread of all the towns/cities that have been proudly proclaimed as the meth capital of the universe.

Independence (started it all with the Rolling Stones story back in the 90's)
Raymore
Belton
Kearny
Knob Knoster
Knob Town
Joliet
New Jersey
and about 500 other cities that I can't think of.

If you were around back in the 80's you would have KNOWN that SanDiego, CA was considered the METH CAPITAL of the US ... BAR NONE.

Some of the BEST Crystal Meth came out of SD and I can tell you it was LEAPS and BOUNDS above any of the stuff that was cooked locally in KS or MO.

Just an observation as I was introduced to some of the BEST from KS and MO and I can shamfully say I was a conesieur back then.

:D



.

Chiefless
07-05-2005, 01:10 PM
Ugh! There is a meth-head living in a garage (which, of course, he has remodled-several times over-into an illegal mother-in-law) behind the house my girl-friend and I own. This man is a complete menace to the neighborhood. He's obviously done time. He's constantly tweaked. He's big. He's certifiably inSANE. He robs neighborhood garages. He yells and screams at his friends at all hours. He builds and breaks stuff at 4 in the morning. He SUCKS.

These are the kinds of people that make me want to argue FOR reducing civil rights...because, while it's obvious to the police that he's tweaked, they are hamstrung by the law and cannot raid his shack. So, basically, calling the police on him is tant-amount to shooting a bear in the butt with a bb-gun. I'm praying does not decide to go down in a blaze of glory and shoot (or worse) all of his neighbors...especially my girlfriend, who leaves after me in the morning and comes home before me in the evening. I'd rather die trying to help than to live with that on my conscious.

this is an issue that hits close to home...anyone out there ever successfully ousted such a monster?

Calcountry
07-05-2005, 01:11 PM
I serve the public, and have waited on meth heads.

They ask a question about something, I take a breath to articulate the words in the form on answer, and they have already turned their head and are grabbing something different to BUY!!!!11 NOW!!!, then ask anohter question about a 3rd issue, mid sentence I change to the new answer and WHOOOp, they grab something totally unrelated to the other things and questions, SLAM it on the counter11!! So I just start typing at the cash register as quick as I can and blurt out the total, the cash comes flying I make change, and WHOOP sometimes they won't even take it if it is coin, they are GONE!!11 out the dore before I can say thanks.

Cochise
07-05-2005, 01:22 PM
Meth is definatley the drug that people are most proud of.

Everytime you bring it up somebody pipes in with "my town was just named the meth capitol of the United States", like their son just won the MVP of the Little League World Series.

I should start a thread of all the towns/cities that have been proudly proclaimed as the meth capital of the universe.

Independence (started it all with the Rolling Stones story back in the 90's)
Raymore
Belton
Kearny
Knob Knoster
Knob Town
Joliet
New Jersey
and about 500 other cities that I can't think of.

Kearney, that's funny. While I admit I have done it a couple of times too, I grew up there and the place wasn't big enough to be the meth capital of Clay County. Probably still isn't.

I've heard it said that it was also Columbia, Des Moines, West Des Moines, Omaha, Council Bluffs, Davenport, etc etc. I think it's just an 'urban cliche' to say that some place you think little of is 'the meth capital of the world'.

In reality the meth capital of the world is probably Mexico or Columbia. More has to be imported than is made up in old camper shells and sheds in any one particular place.

trndobrd
07-05-2005, 01:45 PM
this is an issue that hits close to home...anyone out there ever successfully ousted such a monster?


Let me offer three suggestions.

1) Walk over at 4am when he is on one of his screaming tirades and ask him to please quiet down. Perhaps if he knew how much he was bother others, he would curb his disruptive behavior. If he refuses, or threatens you, pull the .357 Magnum revolver from your jacket, point the barrel in the direction of his chest and begin pulling the trigger.

2) Some morning about 10am, when he is sleeping it off, take a gallon of gas over and douse his garage. Light a cigarette, throw it on the gas. Walk away.

if he first two would cause you difficulty sleeping at night, maybe this will help..
3) Police are looking to establish probable cause to believe that his garage is being used for the manufacture of methamphetamines. This isn't just a "law", it's part of our rights as Americans to be free in our homes from government intrusion. However, you can help the police help convince a judge if you know what they are looking for....namely, a strong chemical odor, especially ether or ammonia. Empty sudafed containers, empty bottle, especially with hoses or holes. Any kind of coolers or containers used to store pressurized gas (ie empty propane bottles). If you see or smell those things, call the police immediately.

Goapics1
07-05-2005, 01:48 PM
Let me offer three suggestions.

1) Walk over at 4am when he is on one of his screaming tirades and ask him to please quiet down. Perhaps if he knew how much he was bother others, he would curb his disruptive behavior. If he refuses, or threatens you, pull the .357 Magnum revolver from your jacket, point the barrel in the direction of his chest and begin pulling the trigger.

2) Some morning about 10am, when he is sleeping it off, take a gallon of gas over and douse his garage. Light a cigarette, throw it on the gas. Walk away.


ROFL hee hee

MichaelH
07-05-2005, 01:52 PM
I'm from northeastern Pennsylvania, far from the west coast or even the mid west. I saw the crap in college 20 years ago. Later, working construction I met many burnouts that had been doing it for many years. I think it is a major problem, but not a new one.

Skip Towne
07-05-2005, 01:54 PM
I serve the public, and have waited on meth heads.

They ask a question about something, I take a breath to articulate the words in the form on answer, and they have already turned their head and are grabbing something different to BUY!!!!11 NOW!!!, then ask anohter question about a 3rd issue, mid sentence I change to the new answer and WHOOOp, they grab something totally unrelated to the other things and questions, SLAM it on the counter11!! So I just start typing at the cash register as quick as I can and blurt out the total, the cash comes flying I make change, and WHOOP sometimes they won't even take it if it is coin, they are GONE!!11 out the dore before I can say thanks.
Maybe if you locked your dore they couldn't get in.

KC Kings
07-05-2005, 01:57 PM
If you were around back in the 80's you would have KNOWN that SanDiego, CA was considered the METH CAPITAL of the US ... BAR NONE.

Some of the BEST Crystal Meth came out of SD and I can tell you it was LEAPS and BOUNDS above any of the stuff that was cooked locally in KS or MO.

Just an observation as I was introduced to some of the BEST from KS and MO and I can shamfully say I was a conesieur back then.

:D



.
1980? No, the crystal meth scene wasn't that big at Lee's Summit kindergartens.

I had never even heard of the stuff until 97 or 98 when the Rolling Stones article came out. They said that some guy from Independence discovered a new way of making it while in prison, and it went from being not very pure to almost 100 pure he he shared the information with all of his friends.

The said that there was magnesium sulfate or some chemical on the heads of strike anywhere matches, and he would give meth heads free meth in exchange for scraping the stuff off of the tips of the matches. After one night there would be a pile of matches 3 feet tall. that was one of the many reasons why the drug didn't appeal to me.

Iowanian
07-05-2005, 01:58 PM
I said it the other night........I'm a hater of the meth.

...this weekend, in small town Iowania, I saw a guy get tackled and was stabbed multiple times by 3 meth monkeys because he told one who was 2osomething to stop trying to eff his 14year old daughter.

Its eaten up a couple of my good friends.

Meth makers/distributers should be shot on site.

stumppy
07-05-2005, 01:59 PM
I serve the public, and have waited on meth heads.

They ask a question about something, I take a breath to articulate the words in the form on answer, and they have already turned their head and are grabbing something different to BUY!!!!11 NOW!!!, then ask anohter question about a 3rd issue, mid sentence I change to the new answer and WHOOOp, they grab something totally unrelated to the other things and questions, SLAM it on the counter11!! So I just start typing at the cash register as quick as I can and blurt out the total, the cash comes flying I make change, and WHOOP sometimes they won't even take it if it is coin, they are GONE!!11 out the dore before I can say thanks.

What would a tweeker want with bunny turds ? Or are you selling sinus medicine, lithium batteries, lye, and anhydrous on the side ?

Chiefless
07-05-2005, 02:02 PM
"1) Walk over at 4am when he is on one of his screaming tirades and ask him to please quiet down. Perhaps if he knew how much he was bother others, he would curb his disruptive behavior. If he refuses, or threatens you, pull the .357 Magnum revolver from your jacket, point the barrel in the direction of his chest and begin pulling the trigger.

2) Some morning about 10am, when he is sleeping it off, take a gallon of gas over and douse his garage. Light a cigarette, throw it on the gas. Walk away."

I have those fantasies daily...you have no idea. I've often wanted to ask detectives just how hard they would look for this dirtbag's killer. Now, mind you, I don't have that in me, but in my fantasies he is one dead mofo.

Cochise
07-05-2005, 02:04 PM
I have those fantasies daily...you have no idea. I've often wanted to ask detectives just how hard they would look for this dirtbag's killer. Now, mind you, I don't have that in me, but in my fantasies he is one dead mofo.

It's a shame that arson is a felony, isn't it.

Maybe you could accidentally carelessly discard lit cigarettes and flamable chemicals over there.

Chiefless
07-05-2005, 02:15 PM
Maybe you could accidentally carelessly discard lit cigarettes and flamable chemicals over there

or accidently lob a gernade through his window.

Did I mention he was busted a few months ago, placed on probation, raided/arrested last week by the dept of corrections (after a phone-call from our next door neighbor) for breaking the terms of his probation, then released after he flipped on three of his dealers? Sweet, thanks Dept of corrections...nice to have him back.

Did I also mention he drived the same truck as me? So, now I gotta worry about mistaken by him in my truck. Crank rocks.

trndobrd
07-05-2005, 02:17 PM
I have those fantasies daily...you have no idea. I've often wanted to ask detectives just how hard they would look for this dirtbag's killer. Now, mind you, I don't have that in me, but in my fantasies he is one dead mofo.


Then take a hard look at #3 then. Seriously. That's exactly the kind of things the police are looking for when they come out. If there is a strong chemical odor, they will be all about getting a warrant and cleaning out his little operation.

Cochise
07-05-2005, 02:18 PM
or accidently lob a gernade through his window.

Did I mention he was busted a few months ago, placed on probation, raided/arrested last week by the dept of corrections (after a phone-call from our next door neighbor) for breaking the terms of his probation, then released after he flipped on three of his dealers? Sweet, thanks Dept of corrections...nice to have him back.

Did I also mention he drived the same truck as me? So, now I gotta worry about mistaken by him in my truck. Crank rocks.

Whatever dude, leave him alone. He ain't hurting nobody. :rolleyes:

Iowanian
07-05-2005, 02:23 PM
I've said it before and I'll repeat it now....

The Cure for meth?
1 really really big Govt Produced and distributed "bad batch".



Chiefless...............I think you just said the sollution to your problem. Make it known, who flipped on the dealers, and they'll eventually find him with his hands and mouth duct taped floating in a lagoon.

*insert standard planet sollution

1 piture of Icy, Cold Lime or Orange antifreeze Koolaide left in front of the garage, complete with enough Dixie Cups for everyone inside.

Chiefless
07-05-2005, 02:26 PM
He doesn't cook.

We met with a very cool beat-cop. He told us to do just that...call everytime he peeps. We are doing that. It's slowly working. But it is kind of hanging the neiborhood out to dry, because he KNOWS people are calling on him. It opens us up to property damage and/or physical harm. So, I am having a hard time staying the course, because if the dept of corrections miscalculates this could turn bloody.

THAT is what it's like to live by a bad meth-head. Can't wait 'til this game of chicken is over.

anyway, that's my whine...

Chiefless
07-05-2005, 02:31 PM
Whatever dude, leave him alone. He ain't hurting nobody.

You are wrong about that...He has punched a friend of his in the face with a brick. And verbally abuses (at least) the 80 year old man that owns the property. Now, maybe you like to witness crap like that at 3 am on a work night, but I don't.

Cochise
07-05-2005, 02:31 PM
He doesn't cook.

We met with a very cool beat-cop. He told us to do just that...call everytime he peeps. We are doing that. It's slowly working. But it is kind of hanging the neiborhood out to dry, because he KNOWS people are calling on him.

How does he know who is calling on him?

Cochise
07-05-2005, 02:32 PM
You are wrong about that...He has punched a friend of his in the face with a brick. And verbally abuses (at least) the 80 year old man that owns the property. Now, maybe you like to witness crap like that at 3 am on a work night, but I don't.

I was being sarcastic, as per the usual argument, that users don't hurt anybody.

Chiefless
07-05-2005, 02:36 PM
oh...I'm glad I removed the last paragraph from my last post, then...:)

sorry for not hearing the sarcasm in your voice.

Rausch
07-05-2005, 02:46 PM
You are wrong about that...He has punched a friend of his in the face with a brick. And verbally abuses (at least) the 80 year old man that owns the property. Now, maybe you like to witness crap like that at 3 am on a work night, but I don't.

Pretty standard here...

Goapics1
07-05-2005, 02:49 PM
You are wrong about that...He has punched a friend of his in the face with a brick. And verbally abuses (at least) the 80 year old man that owns the property. Now, maybe you like to witness crap like that at 3 am on a work night, but I don't.
Is this him?

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2002/US/West/11/07/offbeat.historic.trailer.park.ap/story.trailerpark.ap.jpg

go bowe
07-05-2005, 02:54 PM
meth sucks...

even in the '60's everybody (who was into the drug scene, which was a lot of somebodies) used the mantra speed kills...

people i knew would at least try every drug known to man, but nobody wanted to f*** with speed...

we had seen what it did to the heavy users and in many ways, it was worse than heroin in terms of people getting addicted and ending up dead or in prison for the crimes they commit to support their habit...

Chiefless
07-05-2005, 02:59 PM
Is this him?

LOL. NO! that guy's too fat to be a meth-head.

Hydrae
07-05-2005, 03:09 PM
I did meth in the northwest for a couple of years in the late 80's. Talk about how everywhere is considered the capital of meth, I was told that it was first concocted at the chemistry department at U of O in Eugene, Or. Having driven from Portland down to Springfield (across I-5 from Eugene), I can believe it.

Meth is an insidious drug that will catch you unaware. I loved the stuff and it was screwing me in more ways than I realized. Then I left the area, had no contacts and was able to dry out. One of the best things to happen to me.

Skip Towne
07-05-2005, 03:11 PM
meth sucks...

even in the '60's everybody (who was into the drug scene, which was a lot of somebodies) used the mantra speed kills...

people i knew would at least try every drug known to man, but nobody wanted to f*** with speed...

we had seen what it did to the heavy users and in many ways, it was worse than heroin in terms of people getting addicted and ending up dead or in prison for the crimes they commit to support their habit...
Hogwash! Everyone ends up dead.

MOhillbilly
07-05-2005, 03:17 PM
i dont care for meth or people who use it.Never dont it,never will.
IMO theyre right up there w/ F^GS,pedos,commies,hippies,yuppies,border jumpers,welfare moms and all the other undesireables who need a good rope and tall tree.

Skip Towne
07-05-2005, 03:24 PM
i dont care for meth or people who use it.Never dont it,never will.
IMO theyre right up there w/ F^GS,pedos,commies,hippies,yuppies,border jumpers,welfare moms and all the other undesireables who need a good rope and tall tree.
You forgot hillbillies. They're the worst.

MOhillbilly
07-05-2005, 03:27 PM
You forgot hillbillies. They're the worst.

and crooked little men in crooked little houses.

Kerberos
07-05-2005, 03:28 PM
even in the '60's everybody (who was into the drug scene, which was a lot of somebodies) used the mantra speed kills...



SPEED KILLS .... DON'T METH AROUND!


:D




.

Skip Towne
07-05-2005, 03:33 PM
I did meth in the northwest for a couple of years in the late 80's. Talk about how everywhere is considered the capital of meth, I was told that it was first concocted at the chemistry department at U of O in Eugene, Or. Having driven from Portland down to Springfield (across I-5 from Eugene), I can believe it.

Meth is an insidious drug that will catch you unaware. I loved the stuff and it was screwing me in more ways than I realized. Then I left the area, had no contacts and was able to dry out. One of the best things to happen to me.
If meth was invented at U of O it must have been a long time ago. Hitler was giving it to his troops in the '30's.

MOhillbilly
07-05-2005, 03:35 PM
If meth was invented at U of O it must have been a long time ago. Hitler was giving it to his troops in the '30's.

id like to see proof.

the Talking Can
07-05-2005, 03:42 PM
Luckily there is no meth in Kansas.

dollar1
07-06-2005, 09:04 AM
Even here, in lil' Hiawatha KS pop 4,000, there is a meth bust every other week.

I moved to a small town from KC just to avoid this kind of crap. I think meth producers like rural areas because they can cook in the barn far away from anybody to witness.

That's about all I have to contribute :banghead:

~Back Under Rock~

Brock
07-06-2005, 09:07 AM
id like to see proof.

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,354606,00.html

Iowanian
07-06-2005, 09:22 AM
yeah Right....Sure thing Brock. Next you'll try to tell us that the Nazi's exterminated a few million People...

HemiEd
07-06-2005, 09:24 AM
"I want a new drug, one that won't make me feel three feet thick."

MOhillbilly
07-06-2005, 10:01 AM
yeah Right....Sure thing Brock. Next you'll try to tell us that the Nazi's exterminated a few million People...

n the catliks didnt help........

JimNasium
07-06-2005, 10:05 AM
On a related note. Here's the editorial from today's Springfield News-Leader. (http://www.news-leader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?Date=20050706&Category=OPINIONS01&ArtNo=507060319&SectionCat=OPINIONS&Template=printart)

#################

Published July 6, 2005

Innocent have something to fear

Let's dump "suspicious until proven innocent."

Whenever civil libertarians object to rules or laws that let government intrude into personal privacy in the name of security, the laws' defenders have a quick response. If you're not doing anything illegal, you have nothing to fear.

Tell it to Elizabeth McLinn.

McLinn is the Bolivar woman who bought two boxes of cold medicine. A Wal-Mart employee thought she'd been buying too much pseudoephedrine, so he called the cops on her.

When they pulled her over, she had nearly two more boxes in her car, plus (gasp) rock salt, rubbing alcohol and potting soil. The next day she was charged with possession of precursor ingredients with intent to manufacture methamphetamine, a felony. She spent the weekend in jail before a relative arranged to bail her out.

Two months later, a court dismissed the case when it became quite clear she has severe allergies, a big garden (the potting soil), spends a lot of time outdoors (rubbing alcohol for bug bites) and prepares for winter (the rock salt).

She did nothing illegal, but she has paid with lost time, lost money and the humiliation of being tossed in jail — and having to acknowledge the arrest and charge on applications for teaching jobs.

Meth is an epidemic. Lawmakers and law enforcement are right to focus their attention on it. But when laws presume guilt from the possession of common, legal products, there should be a greater onus on law enforcement to make sure there is actual criminal intent.

Failure to do that makes victims of the innocent — which should be inexcusable no matter how noble the cause. American justice was established on the premise that it is better to free 100 guilty people than to imprison one innocent person.

The current trend in American law, unfortunately, goes the other way.

High schools, with the blessing of the U.S. Supreme Court, require students in any extracurricular activity to submit to random drug tests. The teens are essentially considered guilty until proven innocent.

The Patriot Act allows the FBI, on the lightest of suspicion, to track any citizen's reading and Internet habits. It opens the way to spying on citizens.

The Transportation Security Administration compiles databases of "suspicious" travelers that forces people with the wrong name to endure extra searches and questioning — and sometimes keeps them off their flights.

But if you've done nothing illegal, you have nothing to fear, the refrain comes back. Security requires a few sacrifices.

Tell that to Elizabeth McLinn.

The founders added the Bill of Rights to the Constitution to put a check on government — and to make personal liberty more important than communal security. The founders knew where a road paved in good intentions leads.

That road throws people like Elizabeth McLinn in jail for the weekend when they have done nothing illegal. It is a road we need to get off of.

|Zach|
07-06-2005, 10:08 AM
Jeez, thats crazy.

Skip Towne
07-06-2005, 10:15 AM
On a related note. Here's the editorial from today's Springfield News-Leader. (http://www.news-leader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?Date=20050706&Category=OPINIONS01&ArtNo=507060319&SectionCat=OPINIONS&Template=printart)

#################

Published July 6, 2005

Innocent have something to fear

Let's dump "suspicious until proven innocent."

Whenever civil libertarians object to rules or laws that let government intrude into personal privacy in the name of security, the laws' defenders have a quick response. If you're not doing anything illegal, you have nothing to fear.

Tell it to Elizabeth McLinn.

McLinn is the Bolivar woman who bought two boxes of cold medicine. A Wal-Mart employee thought she'd been buying too much pseudoephedrine, so he called the cops on her.

When they pulled her over, she had nearly two more boxes in her car, plus (gasp) rock salt, rubbing alcohol and potting soil. The next day she was charged with possession of precursor ingredients with intent to manufacture methamphetamine, a felony. She spent the weekend in jail before a relative arranged to bail her out.

Two months later, a court dismissed the case when it became quite clear she has severe allergies, a big garden (the potting soil), spends a lot of time outdoors (rubbing alcohol for bug bites) and prepares for winter (the rock salt).

She did nothing illegal, but she has paid with lost time, lost money and the humiliation of being tossed in jail — and having to acknowledge the arrest and charge on applications for teaching jobs.

Meth is an epidemic. Lawmakers and law enforcement are right to focus their attention on it. But when laws presume guilt from the possession of common, legal products, there should be a greater onus on law enforcement to make sure there is actual criminal intent.

Failure to do that makes victims of the innocent — which should be inexcusable no matter how noble the cause. American justice was established on the premise that it is better to free 100 guilty people than to imprison one innocent person.

The current trend in American law, unfortunately, goes the other way.

High schools, with the blessing of the U.S. Supreme Court, require students in any extracurricular activity to submit to random drug tests. The teens are essentially considered guilty until proven innocent.

The Patriot Act allows the FBI, on the lightest of suspicion, to track any citizen's reading and Internet habits. It opens the way to spying on citizens.

The Transportation Security Administration compiles databases of "suspicious" travelers that forces people with the wrong name to endure extra searches and questioning — and sometimes keeps them off their flights.

But if you've done nothing illegal, you have nothing to fear, the refrain comes back. Security requires a few sacrifices.

Tell that to Elizabeth McLinn.

The founders added the Bill of Rights to the Constitution to put a check on government — and to make personal liberty more important than communal security. The founders knew where a road paved in good intentions leads.

That road throws people like Elizabeth McLinn in jail for the weekend when they have done nothing illegal. It is a road we need to get off of.
Rep to you

Radar Chief
07-06-2005, 10:31 AM
Hogwash! Everyone ends up dead.

“On a long enough timeline, everyone’s survival rate drops to zero.” Jack

Dartgod
07-06-2005, 11:48 AM
Even here, in lil' Hiawatha KS pop 4,000,
Hehe, is the Maple Leaf Restaurant still there?

Kerberos
07-06-2005, 12:11 PM
Even here, in lil' Hiawatha KS pop 4,000, there is a meth bust every other week.

I moved to a small town from KC just to avoid this kind of crap. I think meth producers like rural areas because they can cook in the barn far away from anybody to witness.

That's about all I have to contribute :banghead:

~Back Under Rock~

There are some old missle silos near Wamego KS where the feds found an abandon operation inside one of them that they say had enough glassware and ingredient containers that they were pretty sure was capable of producing 800Million doses of ACID/LSD


http://www.freepickard.org/wamegotimes/wmgotimes04_03_03.html

Meth has always been a problem in and around that area .... lots of busts!

Wamego is population of under 4K if I am not mistaken ... and I could be.


:D

NewChief
07-06-2005, 01:27 PM
There are some old missle silos near Wamego KS where the feds found an abandon operation inside one of them that they say had enough glassware and ingredient containers that they were pretty sure was capable of producing 800Million doses of ACID/LSD


http://www.freepickard.org/wamegotimes/wmgotimes04_03_03.html

Meth has always been a problem in and around that area .... lots of busts!

Wamego is population of under 4K if I am not mistaken ... and I could be.


:D

That bust pretty much KO'd the LSD scene for quite a while if I remember correctly. The stuff used to be everywhere around here, but after that bust it was pretty hard to find (I have lots of hippy friends). Evidently that lab was singlehandedly suppplying the majority of the LSD in the nation.

Kerberos
07-06-2005, 01:34 PM
That bust pretty much KO'd the LSD scene for quite a while if I remember correctly. The stuff used to be everywhere around here, but after that bust it was pretty hard to find (I have lots of hippy friends). Evidently that lab was singlehandedly suppplying the majority of the LSD in the nation.


The "UNOFFICIAL" report that was translated through local police from the KBI was that the silo was capble of producing 1/3 of the WORLD supply of LSD.

NOT 1/3 the national supply.... 1/3 of the WORLDS supply.

That is allot of vitamin A and hell-of-allot of tripp'n !


:D


.

Calcountry
07-06-2005, 02:20 PM
Maybe if you locked your dore they couldn't get in.That was meant as an intentional swipe at me right?

ROFL either way its funny.

dollar1
07-06-2005, 02:23 PM
Hehe, is the Maple Leaf Restaurant still there?

We've got something better though. The Country Cabin. North of Wal-mart. People come from all four states to eat there. I would recommend stopping for a bite if in the area. Make sure you have a reservation on Fri or Sat night.

Oops :)

~Back Under Rock~

Calcountry
07-06-2005, 02:23 PM
What would a tweeker want with bunny turds ? Or are you selling sinus medicine, lithium batteries, lye, and anhydrous on the side ?Feed stores have been known to have Iodine crystals and other products that are distillates for meth.

patteeu
07-06-2005, 02:51 PM
The Salton Sea (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0235737/) was a pretty good movie with some intense scenes.

|Zach|
07-06-2005, 02:53 PM
The "UNOFFICIAL" report that was translated through local police from the KBI was that the silo was capble of producing 1/3 of the WORLD supply of LSD.

NOT 1/3 the national supply.... 1/3 of the WORLDS supply.

That is allot of vitamin A and hell-of-allot of tripp'n !


:D


.
Thats a lotta LSD.

http://www.cs.hmc.edu/~ivl/writing/non_fiction/lsd/lsd-rec.jpg

Skip Towne
07-06-2005, 02:54 PM
That was meant as an intentional swipe at me right?

ROFL either way its funny.
Hell, that was yesterday.

MOhillbilly
07-06-2005, 02:56 PM
lotta bunk lsd floated around the midwest in the mid 90s.

Kerberos
07-06-2005, 03:07 PM
lotta bunk lsd floated around the midwest in the mid 90s.


I wouldn't know anything about that ... Its been at least 12-15 years since I last tripped! :doh!: and when I did I remember doing this :bong: too to make the PEAK baby!

Good times to say the least.

:D



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