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View Full Version : **SPOILERS** Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince Discussion


Amnorix
07-18-2005, 10:23 AM
This thread is targetted at those of us who have completely read Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince. If you have not read the ENTIRE book, if you do not want to know what happens at the end, if you do not want to have the whole thing ruined by reading multiple spoilers, then please go away and feel free to return once you're done with the book.

Amnorix
07-18-2005, 10:23 AM
Lots of spoilers. Did I mention spoilers? This means you.

DANGER WILL ROBINSON! DANGER!! DANGER!!!

ptlyon
07-18-2005, 10:25 AM
You can't spoil anything that I won't ever read, so I'm game.

Hit me.

Amnorix
07-18-2005, 10:31 AM
For those who are still around...

1. I generally thought this latest entry was an excellent book. Frankly, I had begun to fear that Rawlings had become somewhat like Tom Clancy or Stephen King -- incapable of being edited by her editor, and unwilling to edit themselves, such that they wrote ridiculously over-long, meandering tomes that took forever to actually get the plot moving. This book, I thought, was well-written, straight-forward and took a minimum of worthless detours, while still providing color and background.

2. I took about 10 minutes to quickly scan through a Harry Potter chat site to see what was being said. It seems some think Dumbledore is not, in fact, dead, but rather that it is all part of an elaborate scheme cooked up by him and Snape. Part of the justification is the argument that Dumbledore and Snape had earlier, as well as the fact that Harry didn't "confirm" his identity in some fashion (raspberry being his favorite flavor or whatever it was). I'm less than sold on this. I believe both Sirius and Dumbledore are well and truly dead.

3. R.A.B., as someone here (Keg?) mentioned, is commonly thought to be Remulus Black. I can definitely see that. An interesting thought someone had was that back in Order of the Phoenix, the gang found a locket at the Black's house that they could not open. Was this the locket that was sought?

4. It seems to me that in the next book, Harry has a mountain of work to do, and precious little help to do it. He needs to find (i.e. figure out where they are), 4 Horcruxes, recover them, destroy them, then face Voldemort, all while dodging whatever Death Eaters are trying to do thwart him. Oh, by the way, he also needs to hide what he's doing from Voldemort for if Voldemort knows he's losing his Horcruxes, he'll move them or add further protections. For someone who was so OBVIOUSLY out of hsi league in recovering the latest Horcrux, I'll be interested to see how that gets pulled off.

More next post. Unfortunately, as everyone can likely see, my thoughts on this book aren't very well organized yet.

Amnorix
07-18-2005, 10:42 AM
More random thoughts, focusing on a central protagonist, Severus Snape:

I still believe that Snape is ultimately going to be shown to have been working for the good guys. That his killing of Dumbledore was either (1) a fake, in that it wasn't Dumbledore but rather someone else pretending to be Dumbledore who had volunteered to die (I deem this unlikely), (2) that Dumbledore and Snape had agreed to this kind of a plan beforehand, or (3) that Dumbledore was, in fact, pleading with Snape to kill him quickly, because Dumbledore was going to suffer a long, slow, unpreventable and painful death from the poison/potion/whatever that he drank to recover the Horcrux.

Snape is now, without question, as close to Voldemort as anyone. He is in a unique position to harm him, physically or by sharing information. If there are any anonymous individuals helping Harry out in the next book, it'll probably be Snape.

I was absolutely shocked to see how easily Snape handled Harry at the end. I really have no idea how that is explained or justified in any way. If there is ONE thing Harry has been shown to be good at, it's thinking quick and facing off in duels. Snape spanked him like a pathetic child. I disliked that scene quite a bit.

Snape knows that Grimmauld Place is/was the HQ of the Order of the Phoenix. If Harry uses the place in any way next book, or gains benefit from it directly or indirectly, it's an indirect sign that Snape really is working on the right side.

Snape has turned into perhaps the most interesting character in this series. At this point, it is entirely possible that (1) he was working for Voldemort all along, (2) that he was working for Dumbledore all along, or (3) that he is playing his own game, with his ultimate goal to eliminate both Dumbledore and Voldemort and be left leading the Death Eaters (unlikely, but possible). Interesting stuff.

In any event, it seems to me that a powerful wizard will need to be helping Harry and friends in the next book. It may end up being Snape in some fashion.

phisherman
07-18-2005, 11:02 AM
for some reason I'm thinking Snape may have his own evil reasons for this stunt he pulled...

he's just like voldemort, half blood, muggle father, witch mother, very independent

i just know that i can't ever think about his character the same way again....

also, just food for thought, since Snape made the Unbreakable Vow to help Draco, would Snape have died had Draco not fulfilled his mission for Voldemort?

bp

Amnorix
07-18-2005, 11:08 AM
for some reason I'm thinking Snape may have his own evil reasons for this stunt he pulled...

he's just like voldemort, half blood, muggle father, witch mother, very independent

i just know that i can't ever think about his character the same way again....

also, just food for thought, since Snape made the Unbreakable Vow to help Draco, would Snape have died had Draco not fulfilled his mission for Voldemort?

bp

That is certainly the impression one has. I'm starting to re-read the book now, and I'll keep a close eye on how exactly that vow was worded. The unanswered question is what, exactly, were Draco's instructions. If, as one suspects, it was "kill Dumbledore", then there wouldn't seem to be alot of wiggle room.

I think it's odds-on that Snape dies next book, but dies a hero's death.

And the more I think about it, the more Dumbledore wanted Snape to kill him. Over and over again -- "get Snape". Not Madam Pomfrey. Snape, Snape, Snape.

EVERYONE told Dumbledore not to trust him. Dumbledore trusted him implicitly. I do not, CANNOT, believe that Dumbledore was just flat wrong to trust someone like that. He was always willing to give people chances, but he was never, ever foolhardy. See Tom Riddle.

phisherman
07-18-2005, 11:10 AM
well, at least we'll know in...........................

TWO FREAKIN' YEARS PROBABLY!

:banghead:
:cuss:
:mad:
:deevee:
:hmmm:

bp

Amnorix
07-18-2005, 11:23 AM
well, at least we'll know in...........................

TWO FREAKIN' YEARS PROBABLY!



Yeah, no kidding. She's not even going to start writing the next book until after the Holidays, from what I saw. She has a 6 month old baby at home. :shake:


:cuss: :cuss: :cuss: :banghead: :banghead:

irishjayhawk
07-18-2005, 11:25 AM
Did anyone like the new "spunky" Ginny? What about the Harry and Ginny hookup then breakup?


I am very certain that it is Romulus Black (it was the first name that popped into my head without even racking my brains.) Glad to see people agree.

Amnorix
07-18-2005, 11:47 AM
Did anyone like the new "spunky" Ginny? What about the Harry and Ginny hookup then breakup?


I am very certain that it is Romulus Black (it was the first name that popped into my head without even racking my brains.) Glad to see people agree.


Although as an guy in my 30s, the whole teen romance thing doesn't appeal to me much, I had no problem with it. Ginny had a crush on Harry from the time she laid eyes on him. Harry ignored her all along, but now that they're a bit older, and him only being one year younger, it seemed fine.

I kinda thought she was "spunky" all along, just not with Harry, who would make her clam up in fear/adoration. She seemed to me to always stick up for herself, etc. Seems to me that in the Weasley house, that would be a necessary requirement for survival. :)

In short, I like the hook-up. I felt bad for him that Ron and Hermoine were obviously going to hook up and he'd be left alone AGAIN.

I really, REALLY liked how he's suddenly the object of so much adoration and positive attention. Compare it to his misery during Chamber of Secrets, when he was almost universally feared, loathed or suspected. Nice bit of redemption.

I'd have no problem with a follow-on series set 30 years later with him as Headmaster of Hogwarts and Ginny, Ron and Hermoine as Professors. :LOL:

Amnorix
07-18-2005, 11:48 AM
Oh yeah, P.S., is anyone else eager to see Percy Weasley tarred and feathered. I'm basically at the point where I wish something barely short of death would happen to him.

jynni
07-18-2005, 11:50 AM
Ginny's always been pretty "spunky" but I liked finally getting to read more about her. She's usually a pretty secondary character.

I loved that Fleur didn't turn out to be a complete b*tch. She's always been portrayed as vain and self-centered so her standing by Bill was good development for her character.

I too think both Dumbledore and Sirius are dead. I also think that Dumbledore will play an important role in book 7.

I'm leaning towards the idea that Snape and DD had an agreement that Snape would kill DD (perhaps an Unbreakable vow?). DD has never feared death and I imagine probably had some stuff worked out as to what he would do after he died. I think I said it in the other thread but having others witness Snape killing DD earns him the highest credibility with Voldy and the Death Eaters.

jynni
07-18-2005, 11:52 AM
And yes - Percy Weasley (the great big git) needs to be smacked.

rockchalkgirl
07-18-2005, 11:55 AM
I'd agree with you on Percy. I'm thinking some sort of permanent bat-bogey hex would be appropriate, preferably from Ginny. She has done a great job in standing up for herself. Witness that she was in the thick of the fighting at the end of the last book.

Tell me I'm not the only one that cried a little.

Amnorix
07-18-2005, 11:55 AM
I'm leaning towards the idea that Snape and DD had an agreement that Snape would kill DD (perhaps an Unbreakable vow?). DD has never feared death and I imagine probably had some stuff worked out as to what he would do after he died. I think I said it in the other thread but having others witness Snape killing DD earns him the highest credibility with Voldy and the Death Eaters.

I'm in rough agreement with all of this.

Perhaps a letter from Dumbledore to Harry, written prior to his death and explaining the circumstances of his death...?

About the only way Snape could be redeemed in Harry's eyes. After all, Harry himself promised to (and did) "torture" Dumbledore in a way when they were recovering the Horcrux. For the greater good of stopping Voldemort, Dumbledore demanded sacrifices from everyone, not least himself.

irishjayhawk
07-18-2005, 11:56 AM
Yeah I guess she has always been spunky. I also think that DD wasn't pleading for Snape not to kill him (Hence thier arguement earlier)

I also couldn't help but feeling myself mad that they "broke up" because it seemed too "Spiderman-y". I just hope for two things:

1) I just hope that ginny and Harry get back together.
2) I just hope that the next book comes out in less than 2 years!

Amnorix
07-18-2005, 11:59 AM
Yeah I guess she has always been spunky. I also think that DD wasn't pleading for Snape not to kill him (Hence thier arguement earlier)

I also couldn't help but feeling myself mad that they "broke up" because it seemed too "Spiderman-y". I just hope for two things:

1) I just hope that ginny and Harry get back together.
2) I just hope that the next book comes out in less than 2 years!

I don't see how it can come out in less than 2 years. She has said she won't even start for another 6 months. She ahs a 6 month old that she wants to spend time with.

Sad for us, but one can hardly blame her. Me, I could care less about the 2 years, but I sure will be drinking to her health for at least the next 2 years.

donkhater
07-18-2005, 12:02 PM
I agree that Harry seems terribly overmatched. He has talent and power, but his emotions get the better of him and, while not dumb, isn't a thinker like Dumbledore.

It certainly seems to me that he's going to have to learn a few tricks before or during the next book.

On the other hand, he certainly knows how to handle the Minister of Magic. Those two dialouges he had with him were awesome.

irishjayhawk
07-18-2005, 12:02 PM
I don't see how it can come out in less than 2 years. She has said she won't even start for another 6 months. She ahs a 6 month old that she wants to spend time with.

Sad for us, but one can hardly blame her. Me, I could care less about the 2 years, but I sure will be drinking to her health for at least the next 2 years.
Fair point.

Amnorix
07-18-2005, 12:07 PM
I agree that Harry seems terribly overmatched. He has talent and power, but his emotions get the better of him and, while not dumb, isn't a thinker like Dumbledore.

It certainly seems to me that he's going to have to learn a few tricks before or during the next book.

On the other hand, he certainly knows how to handle the Minister of Magic. Those two dialouges he had with him were awesome.

Yes, very amusing stuff. I kinda like Scrimgeour, though. At least more than that buffoon Fudge.

P.S. have I completely lost my mind or was Mad Eye Moody completely NOT mentioned in this book even ONCE? Other members of the Order of the Phoenix were mentioned, but not Moody. Am I misremembering something somehow. Was he assigned to something during the last book?

Donger
07-18-2005, 12:08 PM
There are books too?

jynni
07-18-2005, 12:10 PM
On the other hand, he certainly knows how to handle the Minister of Magic. Those two dialouges he had with him were awesome.
Those were brilliant.

Harry grew up a ton between OotP and HBP. I loved that he was the center of admiration from everybody. It's different for him to be well liked and sought after - he's always been on the outskirts with everyone.

SS - more a curiosity than anything
CoS - Everyone thought he was the Heir of Slytherin
PoA - Not quite as bad but everyone did think Sirius Black was trying to kill him
GoF - Everyone ticked off (and thinking he cheated) that he was in the Triwizard Tournament
OotP - Everyone thinking he's a looney, lying, delusional freak.

Amnorix
07-18-2005, 12:10 PM
There are books too?

Damn straight. Better than the movies too! :)

jynni
07-18-2005, 12:11 PM
Moody was very briefly mentioned at the end. Harry had a thought that the now disfigured Bill kinda resembled him.

Donger
07-18-2005, 12:12 PM
Damn straight. Better than the movies too! :)

Too bad I can't read.

phisherman
07-18-2005, 12:13 PM
I'd agree with you on Percy. I'm thinking some sort of permanent bat-bogey hex would be appropriate, preferably from Ginny. She has done a great job in standing up for herself. Witness that she was in the thick of the fighting at the end of the last book.

Tell me I'm not the only one that cried a little.


not to say that I cried

:deevee:

but the whole part at the end when Fleur stands up for herself to Mrs. Weasley and the Lupin - Tonks sparks fly....yep, those parts may get the tear ducts working!

:deevee:

bp

Amnorix
07-18-2005, 12:16 PM
Moody was very briefly mentioned at the end. Harry had a thought that the now disfigured Bill kinda resembled him.

Right, but I mean mentioning him as in "there he is, doing X".

Tonks, Lupin, Dung, Snape, Arthur Weasley and just about every other member of the ORder of the Phoenix is mentioned somewhere doing something. But no Mad Eye. Not protecting the school. Not visiting the Weasleys. Nothing. WTF?

jynni
07-18-2005, 12:21 PM
That's what I figured you meant but yeah - he was definitly absent.

I can't remember if he was given a job to do in OotP.

donkhater
07-18-2005, 12:25 PM
Some other thoughts:

The whole 'theme' so to speak, of the books so far is that love is the strongest magic of all. So while I at first thought that yes, indeed, Snape did murder Dumbledore on his own account, the fact that Dumbledore trusted him and befriended him and ultimately was killed viciuosly by him doesn't really fit with what Rowling has been trying to get across in my mind. So maybe there is something more there.

Aren't there only 3 Horcruxes left? The diary, the ring and the one found by R.A.B are said to be destroyed (thought the one taken by R.A.B may not be. I'll have to reread OoP to find that passage about a locket) The part of the soul residing in Voldemort isn't a Horcrux.

Things to look out for in the last book:

Harry's eyes--Over six books people have told him he has his mother's eyes. This HAS to be significant to the plot.

Voldemort has Harry's blood in him. This worked to his advantage in that now he can touch Harry without pain, but when he told Dumbledore in GOB, Dumbledore gave a look of victory.

Wormtail owes Harry. In PoA, Dumbledore says that he and Harry are now linked magically and that it is magic at its deepest, most impenetrable. With the way Snape was treating Wormtail in the beginning of this book, maybe something will happen there.

Anyway, those seemed to be some loose ends.

donkhater
07-18-2005, 12:29 PM
BTW, it's nice to see other 30ish males really into Harry Potter. Usually when I mention it to someone, they give that look of, "How old are you?"

irishjayhawk
07-18-2005, 12:30 PM
Some people maintain that Harry himself may be the last horcrux. He is the heir of gryffindor..it seems to fit but what a way to end it if it's true.

donkhater
07-18-2005, 12:35 PM
Some people maintain that Harry himself may be the last horcrux. He is the heir of gryffindor..it seems to fit but what a way to end it if it's true.
Yeah. For I while I thought Lilly Evans' father (Harry's grandfather) may have been the Half Blood Prince and a heir to Gryffindor. Not only that, but whoever it was was a master potion maker and Slughorn kept going on about how good Lilly was at potion making. After the discovery of the Dark Magic curses and Snape mending Draco in the bathroom as easily as he did, it was obvious to me that Snape was the HBP (or at least was related to them and knew of the book)

tomahawk kid
07-18-2005, 12:36 PM
What's a horcrux?

donkhater
07-18-2005, 12:39 PM
What's a horcrux?
A word made up by Rowling. It is an object that holds part of a person's soul. The soul can only be split if it commits murder. Thus since six horcruxes were made, Voldemort committed at least six murders himself.

Likely he committed more, but didn't make a horcrux in those instances.

Gotta read the book, dude.

Amnorix
07-18-2005, 12:40 PM
Some other thoughts:

The whole 'theme' so to speak, of the books so far is that love is the strongest magic of all. So while I at first thought that yes, indeed, Snape did murder Dumbledore on his own account, the fact that Dumbledore trusted him and befriended him and ultimately was killed viciuosly by him doesn't really fit with what Rowling has been trying to get across in my mind. So maybe there is something more there.

Aren't there only 3 Horcruxes left? The diary, the ring and the one found by R.A.B are said to be destroyed (thought the one taken by R.A.B may not be. I'll have to reread OoP to find that passage about a locket) The part of the soul residing in Voldemort isn't a Horcrux.

Things to look out for in the last book:

Harry's eyes--Over six books people have told him he has his mother's eyes. This HAS to be significant to the plot.

Voldemort has Harry's blood in him. This worked to his advantage in that now he can touch Harry without pain, but when he told Dumbledore in GOB, Dumbledore gave a look of victory.

Wormtail owes Harry. In PoA, Dumbledore says that he and Harry are now linked magically and that it is magic at its deepest, most impenetrable. With the way Snape was treating Wormtail in the beginning of this book, maybe something will happen there.

Anyway, those seemed to be some loose ends.

Agree with everything but the eyes. Doubt they matter. Just an off-hand comment, I think.

I agree with you on the Horcrux count, but I need to reread the book. I wasn't focusing on the math of the situation and how she accounts for them. To me, it would seem odd that the rebounding of teh spell that hit Harry didn't "use up" one of his souls.

tomahawk kid
07-18-2005, 12:42 PM
A word made up by Rowling. It is an object that holds part of a person's soul. The soul can only be split if it commits murder. Thus since six horcruxes were made, Voldemort committed at least six murders himself.

Likely he committed more, but didn't make a horcrux in those instances.

Gotta read the book, dude.

My wife's working on it now.

So, Snape turns out to be the "half blood prince"? That's my last question ......

Amnorix
07-18-2005, 12:42 PM
BTW, it's nice to see other 30ish males really into Harry Potter. Usually when I mention it to someone, they give that look of, "How old are you?"

Ask them if they play computer games. Then tell them there's an unbelievable number of 12 year olds playing the same game.

A good story is a good story, regardless of the intended audience. Look at the Chronicles of Narnia, which are even more "childish", yet have appeal to adults.

Or if they saw/liked Shrek or Shrek 2.

etc. ad infinitum.

Amnorix
07-18-2005, 12:43 PM
My wife's working on it now.

So, Snape turns out to be the "half blood prince"? That's my last question ......

Yes, the HBP is Snape. His mother's maiden name was Prince. She was a witch. He was, in effect, disavowing his muggle father by taking on that title.

Iowanian
07-18-2005, 12:44 PM
I just don't understand why so many adults are enamoured with a series of Book written for adolecents?

I was done with Hokus Pokus type books by 4th grade though, so its natural that I wouldn't "get it".

Other than that, I really don't have the desire to stay up all night, reading a book, a foot thick, just to be the first one done.

donkhater
07-18-2005, 12:46 PM
Agree with everything but the eyes. Doubt they matter. Just an off-hand comment, I think.


I don't think so. I some question and answer session with Rowling, someone asked if Harrys eyes had anything to do with how he would conquer Voldemort, and the only thing Rowling would say was," Well aren't you a clever one."

donkhater
07-18-2005, 12:50 PM
I just don't understand why so many adults are enamoured with a series of Book written for adolecents?

I was done with Hokus Pokus type books by 4th grade though, so its natural that I wouldn't "get it".

Other than that, I really don't have the desire to stay up all night, reading a book, a foot thick, just to be the first one done.
She's never said that they were written for adolescents. Was Huckleberry Finn and Tom Sawyer written for kids because they were about kids?

The first book (The Sorceror's Stone)was pretty tame and reads very easily, so it's easy to think that it's just a kidde series. But after that, the plot starts to get very interesting and much darker. Plus there are some universally funny situations.

I didn't stay up all night to read the book. As I said, the books read very easily, and I'm a bit of a fast reader to begin with, so it didn't take long to get through 654 pages.

MOhillbilly
07-18-2005, 12:56 PM
3 pages of jibberish.

irishjayhawk
07-18-2005, 01:06 PM
3 pages of jibberish.
1 post of worthlessness.

2 if you count this retort.

Pennywise
07-18-2005, 01:06 PM
http://www.fazed.org/video/view/?id=33

irishjayhawk
07-18-2005, 01:47 PM
Theres a new theory :P Ginny is the horcrux because Voldermort transfered his soul into here in the Chamber.

BTW that video is funny :P

jynni
07-18-2005, 02:36 PM
I don't think that's right. The whole reason Ginny was saved was because Harry destroyed the horcrux (diary).

angel
07-18-2005, 02:39 PM
it's interesting how so many theories are similar, but different

I'm going to start re-reading from the beginning now with what I know now and start piecing things together

I don't think Snape'll die in the last one. I honestly think (and have for the last few books) that Harry has to die in the end. I'm not saying that Voldemort won't die, I'm saying that in order to kill him, Harry will have to die as well. I doubt that JK will kill off her main character, but seeing as how she's killed off two of my favorite important characters already, she might.

I don't think that Ginny is a horcrux. Dumbledore said that it was almost unheard of to make an animal one, why would Voldemort be dumb enough to make a human one?

Snape is the main subject that has me wondering. I think that he and Dumbledore discussed what had to happen. Dumbledore did not want Draco to commit murder, that's for sure. I don't think that was the plan all along. I think this is what Snape and Dumbledore were arguing about. Snape told him that he had made the unbreakable vow, and so one way or another Dumbledore had to die. They both decided that it would have to be Snape to do it. That's why he kept calling for Snape. The way he was talking to Malfoy before hand, and the lack of fight he put up, (Dumbledore, no matter how weak, would have at least put up a bit of a fight when the Death Eaters came into the room), have led me to this direction of thinking.

He froze Harry so that he wouldn't try and stop what needed to happen, and so that he wouldn't get hurt.

keg in kc
07-18-2005, 02:44 PM
Snape Snape Snape...If Snape was really working with Dumbledore, then Dumbledore would know about both Snape's unbreakable vow and Draco's mission. Whether they can fake an avada kedavra I don't know, that would be one way. Dumbledore did talk at some length about protecting Draco from Voldemort by faking his death. Perhaps the important part there was to protect Draco, to keep him from murdering Dumbledore. Maybe he'll be an ally now. There's some evidence that Harry's feelings have begun to change about him.

Or maybe Snape really is just bad. If I were writing this, he would be. But I'm not. Something tells me he ends up being a hero.I was absolutely shocked to see how easily Snape handled Harry at the end. I really have no idea how that is explained or justified in any way.It was. Occlumancy. "Blocked again and again until you learn to keep your mouth shut and your mind closed, Potter!" sneered Snape, deflecting the curse once more.

I thought Snape was protecting Harry during the fight.Snape knows that Grimmauld Place is/was the HQ of the Order of the Phoenix. If Harry uses the place in any way next book, or gains benefit from it directly or indirectly, it's an indirect sign that Snape really is working on the right side.I don't think it will matter, unless Dumbledore made Snape the secret-keeper at the time of his death. Snape would still be able to enter himself, but unless he was the secret-keeper he wouldn't be able to take in any Death Eaters who didn't know the location.In any event, it seems to me that a powerful wizard will need to be helping Harry and friends in the next book. It may end up being Snape in some fashion.Yeah, I thought that was the problem with the end of the book. If they really go off on their own, they can't possibly survive. None of them are poweful enough to challenge any but the weakest adult wizards yet.

It would kind of be odd, too, to have them out of the school since the first six books were divided into years at Hogwarts.

Guess we'll see in two or three years.

keg in kc
07-18-2005, 02:48 PM
I think Neville's going to play some kind of an important role in how it ends, too. Rowling's spent a lot of time developing that character.

It'll be interesting to see if she kills off any more of the main characters, i.e. Harry, Hermione, the entire Weasley family, Lupin or Tonks, etc.

angel
07-18-2005, 02:52 PM
If they really go off on their own, they can't possibly survive. None of them are poweful enough to challenge any but the weakest adult wizards yet.

I think that Dumbledore has faith in Harry's abilities. Harry is more powerful than even he knows, and Dumbledore knew that. That's why he shared so much with Harry and took him with him to the cave.

I think, too, that the end "battle" with Snape showed that he is still on the good side. (Either that, or he meant what he said to the Death Eaters about Voldemort wanting Harry to himself.)

He could have easily killed Harry right there, but he only deflected the curses and hexes, and furthermore, gave Harry advice about how he was doing it.

I think that both Snape and Dumbledore's final plan was to make sure Draco didn't turn the way of his father. With Snape there to guide him now, maybe he won't.

However, there is still a place deep in my heart that agrees with Harry and says that Snape has always been on the other side...

angel
07-18-2005, 02:52 PM
I think Neville's going to play some kind of an important role in how it ends, too. Rowling's spent a lot of time developing that character.

It'll be interesting to see if she kills off any more of the main characters, i.e. Harry, Hermione, the entire Weasley family, Lupin or Tonks, etc.
I LOVE that Lupin and Tonks are getting together!

keg in kc
07-18-2005, 02:58 PM
I LOVE that Lupin and Tonks are getting together!I thought it was cool the way that Rowling hid that the entire book, making it look like Tonks was mouning Sirius. Totally out of left field when that finally came out.

I had a bizarre theory during the book, until the scene on the tower: I thought the Order had kidnapped Draco and Tonks was impersonating him. The way she found Harry on the train, the way Draco was going and crying to Moaning Myrtle, just made me think that for some reason.

I think other than Snape, what happens with Malfoy may be the most intersting thing. Voldemort won't be happy with him, I'd say. I just hope JKR doesn't good too far and turn he and Harry into best buddies.

angel
07-18-2005, 03:03 PM
I thought it was cool the way that Rowling hid that the entire book, making it look like Tonks was mouning Sirius. Totally out of left field when that finally came out.

I had a bizarre theory during the book, until the scene on the tower: I thought the Order had kidnapped Draco and Tonks was impersonating him. The way she found Harry on the train, the way Draco was going and crying to Moaning Myrtle, just made me think that for some reason.

I think other than Snape, what happens with Malfoy may be the most intersting thing. Voldemort won't be happy with him, I'd say. I just hope JKR doesn't good too far and turn he and Harry into best buddies.

I forgot about him crying to Myrtle... that never really got closure, did it? I wonder if she'll touch on that in the next book. At first, I thought it was a ploy of Draco's to get information out of her like what Voldemort did to that Hufflepuff woman. Using charm and what not to use people to get information. I was wondering if he was using Myrtle for information or access to the chamber or something, but then I was distracted by that awful curse Harry used, and forgot all about Myrtle... poor Myrtle, everyone forgets about her...

keg in kc
07-18-2005, 03:07 PM
I think he finally figured out that behind all the arrogance and pomp, that he was just a sad and lonely little guy who didn't like the way his life was going. I kind of look at him as Snape, Jr.

irishjayhawk
07-18-2005, 03:13 PM
Yeah ginny has been ruled out by about 293820498 other people and I have to agree given the hints. Moreover, it seems extremely unlikely that Harry is a horcrux either....

Too bad they didn't say what color the Horcrux curse gives off to match with Harry's green light rememberence

Amnorix
07-18-2005, 08:02 PM
Yeah ginny has been ruled out by about 293820498 other people and I have to agree given the hints. Moreover, it seems extremely unlikely that Harry is a horcrux either....

Too bad they didn't say what color the Horcrux curse gives off to match with Harry's green light rememberence

The green light is from Avada Kedavra. Also the Horcruxes were presumably in place before Voldemort met killed Harry's parents and then tried to use the killing curse on Harry.

donkhater
07-19-2005, 07:08 AM
Snape is the main subject that has me wondering. I think that he and Dumbledore discussed what had to happen. Dumbledore did not want Draco to commit murder, that's for sure. I don't think that was the plan all along. I think this is what Snape and Dumbledore were arguing about. Snape told him that he had made the unbreakable vow, and so one way or another Dumbledore had to die. They both decided that it would have to be Snape to do it. That's why he kept calling for Snape. The way he was talking to Malfoy before hand, and the lack of fight he put up, (Dumbledore, no matter how weak, would have at least put up a bit of a fight when the Death Eaters came into the room), have led me to this direction of thinking.

He froze Harry so that he wouldn't try and stop what needed to happen, and so that he wouldn't get hurt.
Interesting. So much so that I'm starting to agree with it. Also, as mentioned in another thread, he basically told Potter how he was able to block all of his curses.

Add this to what I wrote before about the overall theme of the books: love is the strongest magic of all. Snape may have been bound to Dumbledore with an unbreakable curse. Why else would Dumbledore have been so insistant that he could trust Snape? Remember in his battle with Voledmort when he says that there are worse things than death? Dumbdore was too great a wizard for his death to happen that way, especially since he kept Harry from doing anything.

Also, don't forget his portrait is now up in the headmaster's office. To what extent that he can give advice or majical knowledge is unknown, but he is there.

jynni
07-19-2005, 07:17 AM
This was another interesting theory I came across...
I was leaning toward RAB being Regulas and that he stole the locket from the cave but how would he survive drinking the potion long enough to retrieve the locket and escape the cave if [sob] Dumbledore, the greatest wizard alive, couldn't do it alone? So, is it possible Voldemort gave the task of hiding and protecting some of the horcruxes to some of his deatheaters? Then the false locket could have been placed in the cave in the first place by [maybe] Regulas before the potion was added. Having a few deatheaters know where the horcruxes are hidden would also help Harry in book 7 when he's hunting them down.
Which does make sense since we know Voldy gave the diary to Malfoy Sr. for safe keeping.
He could have easily killed Harry right there, but he only deflected the curses and hexes, and furthermore, gave Harry advice about how he was doing it.
Even if he didn't kill him - he could have very easily immobilized him and taken him off to meet Voldemort. Snape let Harry get away alive and unhurt - he never even tried to attack him - just kept deflecting everything.

Amnorix
07-19-2005, 07:21 AM
Also note that Fawkes, the phoenix, could presumably have come to Dumbledore's aid while he was on the parapet.

It seems to me that Fawkes has the ability to respond to summonses from a distance -- see helping Harry in Chamber of Secrets and Dumbledore in Order of the Phoenix.

Also, clearly, the prohibition against Apparation within Hogwarts does not apply to Fawkes' teleportation (see, again, Chamber of Secrets).

So Fawkes could not come to Dumbledore's aid to retrieve his wand? Attack Malfoy? That seems unlikely.

Amnorix
07-19-2005, 07:22 AM
Question -- does anyone have any idea why the prohibition against Apparation within Hogwarts does not apply to Elves? Dobby and Kreacher can, apparently, apparate at will within Hogwarts...?

jynni
07-19-2005, 07:31 AM
I've always wondered that - I think it's part of the "house elves have a special magic all their own" or whatever was said about them.

donkhater
07-19-2005, 07:52 AM
Question -- does anyone have any idea why the prohibition against Apparation within Hogwarts does not apply to Elves? Dobby and Kreacher can, apparently, apparate at will within Hogwarts...?
My guess is that it is a requirement of their jobs so it doesn't apply to them. They are to go about their tasks quickly, without being seen. Kreacher also apparated into Hogwarts so I'm also sure they are not allowed to leave or enter unless their master (the headmaster presumably) allows them.

Fawkes and Dumbledore also disappeared after their Battle with Fudge and Unbridge in his office in OotP.

It all just seems that Dumbledore was killed too easily, given that he battled Voldemort, Fawkes was at his aid if he needed him and he kept calling for Snape, as if he wanted him to be there to prevent any of the other death eaters to do it instead.

Amnorix
07-19-2005, 07:55 AM
My guess is that it is a requirement of their jobs so it doesn't apply to them. They are to go about their tasks quickly, without being seen. Kreacher also apparated into Hogwarts so I'm also sure they are not allowed to leave or enter unless their master (the headmaster presumably) allows them.

Fawkes and Dumbledore also disappeared after their Battle with Fudge and Unbridge in his office in OotP.

It all just seems that Dumbledore was killed too easily, given that he battled Voldemort, Fawkes was at his aid if he needed him and he kept calling for Snape, as if he wanted him to be there to prevent any of the other death eaters to do it instead.

Right. I'm confident that the ban against apparation definitely does not work against Fawkes' teleportation, which is presumably a "different type" of magic. Apparently, so is whatever the elves do.

Amnorix
07-22-2005, 05:45 AM
I'm rereading the book to pick up any additional detail I missed on my first reading, which I did as fast as possible. These aren't necessarily new points, but I think they're worth mentioning:

1. There are many, many references (direct and indrect) to Harry's need to learn occulumency. In addition to the obvious part at the end with Snape, there are several other references throughout. At the beginning, where Harry is arriving late at Hogwarts after Malfoy messed him up on the train, it refers to Snape "practically reading his mind." An identical reference is made with respect to Dumbledore. Also, Malfoy keeps Snape from learning of his plans and says something like "I know what you're doing and it won't work" and Snape responds with "Aunt Bellatrix has been teaching you Occlumency I see" or somesuch. I'd say Harry will definitely be learning Occlumency early on in the next book.

2. I'd be a bit surprised if Harry doesn't start calling Voldemort by his real name of Tom Riddle in the next book. Either throughout the book, or at least in a confrontation with him in order to annoy him.

3. The more I read the book with the thought "Snape really is working on the good guys' side" the more I find that I think points in this direction. Especially relevant are such comments as Lupin's to Harry over Xmas break, where he says something in response to Harry's suspicions about Snape that go something like "Dumbledore trusts him, and I trust Dumbledore completely, so you should too." He had a few other specific comments that basically say "unless you think Dumbledore is a fool, you should trust Snape".

siberian khatru
07-22-2005, 06:32 AM
Dumbledore dies? Thanks for spoiling the book for me, asshole.

Amnorix
07-22-2005, 06:35 AM
Dumbledore dies? Thanks for spoiling the book for me, asshole.

You're kidding, right? Presumably you read the title of the thread...??

siberian khatru
07-22-2005, 06:36 AM
You're kidding, right? Presumably you read the title of the thread...??

;)

Amnorix
07-22-2005, 06:38 AM
;)

Ah, ok. I was like WTF?! :spock: Ignore my PM to you about this same topic.

siberian khatru
07-22-2005, 06:43 AM
Ah, ok. I was like WTF?! :spock: Ignore my PM to you about this same topic.

See, it says "SPOILERS" in the heading of the thread, then the first two posts say "Don't say I didn't warn you!", etc., and then five pages later I jump in and say "Hey, you spoiled it for me!" -- making ME the :jester:

:p :p :p

I go on vacation for a few days, and suddenly everybody takes me seriously. :shrug:

:D

tiptap
07-22-2005, 06:54 AM
1> Snape didn't just counter Harry's spells, he kept Harry from using illegal spells. And they were measured. It is true that Tom Riddle needs to defeat Harry himself in order to recover from the several encounters.

2> The knowledge that Riddle's diary from the second book was a Horcrux just confirms this book as the best book so far.

3> One wonders just what are the ramifications of having several Riddles, all with partial souls, running around at once. Would they get along with each other? Would they fight each other. Of course only one of them has the phenix wand. Or is that why the wand maker disappeared?

4> Dumbledore's withered hand already doomed him. He was just holding on as long as he could to further the causes. If the phenix tears, Snape's potions or other aids didn't help then the dead thing on his body was the sign of his assured demise. Snape and Dumbledore used his 'inoperable cancer' immenient death to further Snapes infiltration and trust among the Death Eaters.

Chiefnj
07-22-2005, 07:05 AM
3. The more I read the book with the thought "Snape really is working on the good guys' side" the more I find that I think points in this direction. Especially relevant are such comments as Lupin's to Harry over Xmas break, where he says something in response to Harry's suspicions about Snape that go something like "Dumbledore trusts him, and I trust Dumbledore completely, so you should too." He had a few other specific comments that basically say "unless you think Dumbledore is a fool, you should trust Snape".


Snape killing Dumbledore was definately pre-arranged. If Dumbledore wanted someone to heal him there were many Aurors running around the castle who were familiar with the Dark Arts that Dumbledore could have sought assistance from. Instead he specifically told Harry to get "Severus" (interesting he used his first name and not "Professor Snape" when speaking to HP) and to not to stop to talk to anyone else.

Amnorix
07-22-2005, 07:50 AM
I agree with both of you, tiptap and Chiefnj.

I think we'll definitely get an explanation of the hand, and his death, from Dumbledore in the last book -- presumably by way of a letter from him to Harry, but possibly by way of him speaking from a picture (Harry has that collectible card of Dumbledore from the first book).

It's not unthinkable that Dumbledore will be Harry's Pocket Professor -- teaching him occlumency and guiding him, from that silly little card. :D

donkhater
07-22-2005, 07:59 AM
I agree with both of you, tiptap and Chiefnj.

I think we'll definitely get an explanation of the hand, and his death, from Dumbledore in the last book -- presumably by way of a letter from him to Harry, but possibly by way of him speaking from a picture (Harry has that collectible card of Dumbledore from the first book).

It's not unthinkable that Dumbledore will be Harry's Pocket Professor -- teaching him occlumency and guiding him, from that silly little card. :D
You forget that his portrait is now on the wall in the headmaster's office. I didn't gather that the wizards could speak from the cards.

Also, remember the two-way mirror that Harry got from Sirius? That may be useful somehow.

jynni
07-22-2005, 08:01 AM
For some reason, I've always thought that Dumbledore's presence on the Chocolate Frog Cards was important. Just the little ways and hints that have been mentioned throughout the books. I think what stands out the most is the line (I think in either CoS or OotP) where someone says Dumbledore is okay with leaving Hogwarts, just so long as they don't take him off the frog cards.

jynni
07-22-2005, 08:02 AM
There is a very good interview with JRK over at Mugglenet (http://www.mugglenet.com)

There are a several hints and some insight into HBP and Book 7.

Amnorix
07-22-2005, 08:25 AM
You forget that his portrait is now on the wall in the headmaster's office. I didn't gather that the wizards could speak from the cards.

Also, remember the two-way mirror that Harry got from Sirius? That may be useful somehow.

I haven't forgotten the portrait, but I don't see how Harry can possibly access it, since he's not the Headmaster, and since it's more than hinted that he won't return to Hogwarts (whether he does or not, of course, is subject to change).

Agreed that you'd THINK the two-way mirror would do something useful sooner or later...

donkhater
07-22-2005, 08:33 AM
For some reason, I've always thought that Dumbledore's presence on the Chocolate Frog Cards was important. Just the little ways and hints that have been mentioned throughout the books. I think what stands out the most is the line (I think in either CoS or OotP) where someone says Dumbledore is okay with leaving Hogwarts, just so long as they don't take him off the frog cards.
That was in the OoP when they were talking about how the ministry stripped him of all his awards and positions becasue they didn't agree that Voldemort was back and Ginny said that he didn't care as long as they didn't take him off the frog cards. It may have been just a way to show Dumbledore's personality, but at this point, I wouldn't put anything past Rowling.

tomahawk kid
07-22-2005, 08:34 AM
There is a very good interview with JRK over at Mugglenet (http://www.mugglenet.com)

There are a several hints and some insight into HBP and Book 7.

Cliffnotes version?

keg in kc
07-22-2005, 12:05 PM
That's a really interesting interview. I'm thinking Dumblydore may be gone for good. Which I think would be cool, actually.

irishjayhawk
07-22-2005, 12:08 PM
Yeah that was a good interview and I forgot to post it. I really never got into the COS forums they have until after this book. It really is fun.

Anyway, it answered alot of questions.

BTW part 3 is due out today!

angel
07-22-2005, 10:19 PM
I'm rereading the book to pick up any additional detail I missed on my first reading, which I did as fast as possible. These aren't necessarily new points, but I think they're worth mentioning:

I've decided to go back to the beginning and re-read all of the books. Right now, I'm in the Chamber of Secrets. I've noticed many times that they say something about Snape reading minds.
Sorcerer's Stone, p.221 "he sometimes had the horrible feeling that Snape could read minds"
Chamber of Secrets, p.79 "This wasn't the first time Snape had given Harry the impression of being able to read minds"
It's suprising to me how I just skip over things like that, but re-reading them now, they stick out like a sore thumb.

The more I go over this, the more I see how it was all planned from the beginning. Even in the first book, Dumbledore had a helping hand in making sure that Harry would know how to get past the mirror, because he knew that Harry would have to be the one to face Voldemort.

I'm totally impressed with the way this series of books has come out so far.

keg in kc
07-22-2005, 10:50 PM
I've decided to go back to the beginning and re-read all of the books. "You're insane," Kyle cackled, as he shuffled off to bed to read some more. The hypocrite.

irishjayhawk
07-23-2005, 11:31 AM
Just in case you didn't see the pt3 interview.....

She said "No comment" When asked if anyone else was present at Godrics Hollow on the night of the murders of his parents....

jynni
07-23-2005, 11:54 AM
The more I go over this, the more I see how it was all planned from the beginning. Even in the first book, Dumbledore had a helping hand in making sure that Harry would know how to get past the mirror, because he knew that Harry would have to be the one to face Voldemort.
George Lucas could learn a thing or two hundred from JRK about story planning. Maybe while she's at it she can show him how to write dialog as well.

From the Mugglenet interview - I love that she has notebooks and notebooks filled with backstory on characters. After all books are done, I would love to see her publish an "Encyclopedia" type book on Harry Potter - kinda like a bible on the entire Potter universe and the characters.

Darkwolfe
07-23-2005, 02:03 PM
I've noticed many times that they say something about Snape reading minds.
Sorcerer's Stone, p.221 "he sometimes had the horrible feeling that Snape could read minds"
Chamber of Secrets, p.79 "This wasn't the first time Snape had given Harry the impression of being able to read minds"



JRK is being good and sneaky about the wrapping up of this tale. One does have to wonder at Snape's true motive's and loyalty.

Don't forget that Snape is an accomplished Legiliumens (Mind Reader -assuming I spelled it right too lol) and was teaching Harry Occlumency at one point. If the pause before he killed Dumbledore means anything at all, one has to wonder if he was reading the mind of the headmaster to determine if it really was the headmaster or not.

Also remember that little comment from Dumbledore to Draco about faking his death. There could be far more hiding in the last book than we expect.

angel
07-23-2005, 10:30 PM
Also remember that little comment from Dumbledore to Draco about faking his death. There could be far more hiding in the last book than we expect.
when did that happen?

even if he did comment about faking his death, I believe that he is in fact, dead. Especially after reading JK's interview on mugglenet. Harry has to be alone in the end.

keg in kc
07-23-2005, 10:31 PM
when did that happen?I think he was referring to Dumbledore telling Malfoy they could fake his (Draco's) death, when the two of them are facing off on the tower before Snape arrives.

angel
07-23-2005, 10:33 PM
I think he was referring to Dumbledore telling Malfoy they could fake his (Draco's) death, when the two of them are facing off on the tower before Snape arrives.
I think I need to re-read it, I don't recall that at all


but I have to finish what I've started- I'm re-reading all of them, I'm on the third now, so it won't be long...

keg in kc
07-23-2005, 10:41 PM
Page 591-592

(Dumbledore) "He cannot kill you if you are already dead. Come over to the right side, Draco, and we can hide you more completely than you can possibly imagine. What is more, I can send members of the Order to you mother tonight to hide her likewise. Nobody would be surprised that you had died in your attempt to kill me -- forgive me, but Lord Voldemort probably expects it. Nor would the Death Eaters be surprised that we had captured and killed your mother -- it is what they would do themselves, after all. Your father is safe at the moment in Azkaban...When the time comes, we can protect him too..."

angel
07-23-2005, 10:44 PM
oh yeah, I remember that now

I feel so lost without the book to look back at, but I lent it to my brother as soon as I finished. I keep wanting to refer back to it, but he's not finished reading it yet... that's probably why I'm spending so much time on here "discussing" it with you all

keg in kc
07-23-2005, 10:45 PM
I wanted to start rereading the series last night, but I can't find my copy of the Sorcerer's Stone. Pissing me off...

angel
07-23-2005, 10:48 PM
I wanted to start rereading the series last night, but I can't find my copy of the Sorcerer's Stone. Pissing me off...
that sucks, dude

I lost my hard copy of Prizoner of Azkaban and had to replace it with a paperback because I couldn't afford another hardback, and I have hopes that I'll find it somewhere. It's my favorite one, too.

keg in kc
07-23-2005, 10:52 PM
Well, hopefully it'll turn up now that I've stopped looking for it. That's usually the way these things go.

SNR
07-26-2005, 08:56 PM
Finally returned from teaching nonsensical high schoolers about music for a month. My sister picked up a copy for me when she got hers July 16th. I spent two nights in the hotel reading the book these past two days. Finally finished it.

The thought that Snape is still good had not crossed my mind at the end of the 6th book, mostly because I think Snape does not have the balls to double-cross Voldemort. But who knows. For the important role Snape plays in the books, he's the least developed, so I may end up being totally wrong.

I am very curious as to the role Hogwarts will play in the 7th book. JKR didn't determine the future at the end of the 6th book. I would like to see the school continue, to see the kind of job McGonagall can do as headmistress, or how Slughorn will react to Dumbledore's death (meaning if he will finally join the fight again). Not only that, I don't think JKR can just completely forget about characters like Hagrid and do the rest of the story without them. They have got to play a role in some way in the last book.

ChiefFripp
07-27-2005, 07:08 PM
My opinions.

Dumbledore did infact die but he will rise again as his Phoenix has. Too much Phoenix symbolism involving this guy. And he was buried above ground so it's not so freaky for the young readers .

Snape is infact on Dumbledore's side and is infact loyal to the death to him for some reason that will be revealed in the next book.

Crabbe and Doyle liked their transformation to females so much that they'll be the first student tranvestites in the next book. The next Potter book will be banned from all wal-Marts .


I also suspect Dumbledore may be reborn again . We may see him rise from an infant to one day be tutored by none other than Harry Potter himself. This could eb the start of a new series of books.

donkhater
08-01-2005, 01:04 PM
OK.

After spot reading most of the series, I've come up with a few things.

1. Harry's eyes will be important. I know some here doubt that, but they go on and on about how he has his mother's eyes that it has to be significant. Also, if you remember in GOF (Book 4) when Moody is teachiing them what the Imperius curse feels like, Harry fights it off. Moody says that you can see that he is fighting it...you can see it in his eyes.

2. Dumbledore is dead, but will be able to impart some aid to Harry by some means--either via his portrait in the headmasters suite, Fawkes or even Chocolate frog cards. I think even Rowling has implied that we will learn more about Dumbledore in the next book. Also, remember Albus has a brother.

3. I think you have to be a Parslemouth to open the horcruxes. It makes sense doesn't it? That way only Voldemort can access them when he needs them. Dumbledore was seriuosly injured when he destroyed the ring. Perhaps that is really what drained his stregth from him. Remember the prophecy---'and he will mark him as his equal'--giving Harry powers capable of destrying Voldemort. One of those powers is the ability to speak Parslemouth. It also may be the reason why Regulus couldn't destroy the locket in One Grimmwald Place.

3. We have yet to see the advantage Harry gained by having his mother's blood inside Voldemort. Yes, it allowed Voldemort to touch him without pain, but Dumbledore had a 'gleam of triumph' in his eyes when Harry told him in Book 4.

donkhater
08-01-2005, 01:08 PM
One more thing...

The disappearance of Ollivander is signifcant as well. Voldemort may be desiring a new wand for when he and Harry meet again.

Amnorix
08-01-2005, 01:22 PM
OK.

After spot reading most of the series, I've come up with a few things.

1. Harry's eyes will be important. I know some here doubt that, but they go on and on about how he has his mother's eyes that it has to be significant. Also, if you remember in GOF (Book 4) when Moody is teachiing them what the Imperius curse feels like, Harry fights it off. Moody says that you can see that he is fighting it...you can see it in his eyes.

2. Dumbledore is dead, but will be able to impart some aid to Harry by some means--either via his portrait in the headmasters suite, Fawkes or even Chocolate frog cards. I think even Rowling has implied that we will learn more about Dumbledore in the next book. Also, remember Albus has a brother.

3. I think you have to be a Parslemouth to open the horcruxes. It makes sense doesn't it? That way only Voldemort can access them when he needs them. Dumbledore was seriuosly injured when he destroyed the ring. Perhaps that is really what drained his stregth from him. Remember the prophecy---'and he will mark him as his equal'--giving Harry powers capable of destrying Voldemort. One of those powers is the ability to speak Parslemouth. It also may be the reason why Regulus couldn't destroy the locket in One Grimmwald Place.

3. We have yet to see the advantage Harry gained by having his mother's blood inside Voldemort. Yes, it allowed Voldemort to touch him without pain, but Dumbledore had a 'gleam of triumph' in his eyes when Harry told him in Book 4.


I'm in general agreement with your thoughts, other than whether Aberforth (think that's his name) Dumbledore will add much. Seemed to me he was "just" the misfit brother.

I'm wondering if Harry won't start calling Voldemort "Tom Riddle', just as Dumbledore did, to take away the aura.

I think that Harry's mother dying for him out of love, when contrasted to Voldemort NEVER having a single person love him (perhaps his mother for her last hour of life) will continue to have a strong impact on events, and possibly be decisive in the final confrontation.

I think Wormtail must have some significant role to play, out of debt to Harry.

I'd be unsurprised if a number of people "turned" on Voldemort by the end -- Wormtail, Snape, Draco Malfoy all come to mind as strong possibilities.

IMHO the book ends with Harry having taken over as the DADA teacher at Hogwarts. Having broken Voldemort's curse on the position, he takes it for himself for a nice 50 year reign. Also, like Voldemort, Harry's true home IS Hogwarts, but unlike Voldemort, he will become a teacher there and be permitted to remain there for life.
Nice juxtaposition in that.

I wonder if Percy Weasley hasn't been imperiused. It just seems odd that he would spend the entire second half of the series disowning his family and have nothing come of it altogether. Seems like there ought to be some kind of tie in for him to do something...

Amnorix
08-01-2005, 01:23 PM
One more thing...

The disappearance of Ollivander is signifcant as well. Voldemort may be desiring a new wand for when he and Harry meet again.

I also wonder about this. I also wonder about Fawkes and whether he's truly gone for good. I'd be unsurprised if he rejoined Harry.

jynni
08-01-2005, 01:28 PM
Harry's line for CoS, "Dumbledore will never be gone from Hogwarts so long as there are those who are truely loyal to him" (or something to that effect), kept coming back to me while reading HBP. I think that will be significant later on.

Chiefnj
08-01-2005, 01:28 PM
Neville has to kill Bellatrix in the final.

Amnorix
08-01-2005, 02:53 PM
Neville has to kill Bellatrix in the final.

Good one!

SNR
08-01-2005, 05:11 PM
Neville has to kill Bellatrix in the final.JKR's decision not to include Hogwarts in the last book is still making me skeptical. Harry 7 is going to be a long-ass book with everything that must take place among all the characters and no common scene (Hogwarts) to link them all together. I know there are some characters like McGonagall and Hagrid that have to reappear in the next book in some way. I don't think JKR will just let them fall through the cracks.

Fat Elvis
08-01-2005, 05:40 PM
In book 7 Dumbledore will say, "Use the Force Lu, errr..Harry."

irishjayhawk
08-01-2005, 05:42 PM
I think he will return. Also, she said that it will probably less than the fifth book, a fact which makes most fans unhappy.

Taco John
08-01-2005, 05:49 PM
NERDS!

SNR
08-01-2005, 06:06 PM
NERDS!DONKO SCUM!

AZORChiefFan
08-02-2005, 04:32 PM
Goblet o Fire pics (http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/)

Thought I'd pass these along.

ENDelt260
08-03-2005, 01:50 AM
http://www.tshirthell.com/images/newshirt_a510.jpg

Pants
08-03-2005, 01:51 AM
http://www.tshirthell.com/images/newshirt_a510.jpg

Hahahahaha. Wow, they are good.

jynni
08-03-2005, 06:29 AM
It takes a hell of a lot longer than four hours to find out that Dumbledore dies. That and anyone who actually paid $30 for the book is just dumb.

angel
08-03-2005, 07:47 AM
JKR's decision not to include Hogwarts in the last book is still making me skeptical. Harry 7 is going to be a long-ass book with everything that must take place among all the characters and no common scene (Hogwarts) to link them all together. I know there are some characters like McGonagall and Hagrid that have to reappear in the next book in some way. I don't think JKR will just let them fall through the cracks.
I don't think she has said flat out that Hogwarts will be closed in the seventh book. She also said that the last one will not be long- it will definately be shorter than Order of the Phoenix.

angel
08-03-2005, 07:51 AM
I'm in general agreement with your thoughts, other than whether Aberforth (think that's his name) Dumbledore will add much. Seemed to me he was "just" the misfit brother.

I'm wondering if Harry won't start calling Voldemort "Tom Riddle', just as Dumbledore did, to take away the aura.

I think that Harry's mother dying for him out of love, when contrasted to Voldemort NEVER having a single person love him (perhaps his mother for her last hour of life) will continue to have a strong impact on events, and possibly be decisive in the final confrontation.

I think Wormtail must have some significant role to play, out of debt to Harry.

I'd be unsurprised if a number of people "turned" on Voldemort by the end -- Wormtail, Snape, Draco Malfoy all come to mind as strong possibilities.

IMHO the book ends with Harry having taken over as the DADA teacher at Hogwarts. Having broken Voldemort's curse on the position, he takes it for himself for a nice 50 year reign. Also, like Voldemort, Harry's true home IS Hogwarts, but unlike Voldemort, he will become a teacher there and be permitted to remain there for life.
Nice juxtaposition in that.

I wonder if Percy Weasley hasn't been imperiused. It just seems odd that he would spend the entire second half of the series disowning his family and have nothing come of it altogether. Seems like there ought to be some kind of tie in for him to do something...
Who do you think would have put Percy under that spell? That's an interesting thought, but I don't think it's backed by anything.

I had forgotten about Wormtail's debt to Harry-- that will be important... oooh, this will be cool...

And Harry should definately drop Voldemort's name and call him Tom, hehe...

I like your insights. I really like your thought that Harry will be the Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher. Hogwarts is his home.

Amnorix
08-03-2005, 08:03 AM
Who do you think would have put Percy under that spell? That's an interesting thought, but I don't think it's backed by anything.

Not backed by anything. Just a random guess.

I like your insights. I really like your thought that Harry will be the Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher. Hogwarts is his home.

Exactly. This one seems "too perfect" not to happen. Consider:

1. He is "best in class" at DADA, even beating Hermoine in OWLS (not a coinky-dinky that it was her one class she didn't get an O in. JK wants to make it perfectly clear that Harry IS the best at that).

2. He already has DADA teaching experience from the Dumbledore's Army thing.

3. He gets rid of Voldemort, which "breaks the curse" or whatever.

4. Hogwarts is his home, etc.

5. Based on his relationship with the Ministry, I think Auror is probably not in his immediate future. He's too much of a rogue operator who doesnt' want to be tied in with the political machinations of the Ministry, a la Dumbledore.

angel
08-03-2005, 08:05 AM
Exactly. This one seems "too perfect" not to happen.
yeah, I think you're totally right on this one

all the kids in the DA said he was the best defense teacher, too

Amnorix
08-03-2005, 08:11 AM
yeah, I think you're totally right on this one

all the kids in the DA said he was the best defense teacher, too

Yeah, I have a good feeling on this prediction.

I must say, also, that the whole DA thing was one of my favorite things in the entire series. Very cool concept by JK to have Harry start teaching DADA on the sly.

Infidel Goat
08-03-2005, 08:39 AM
I must say, also, that the whole DA thing was one of my favorite things in the entire series. Very cool concept by JK to have Harry start teaching DADA on the sly.

It would also, of course, allow JKR to write another Hogwart's series down the line if she so chooses.

I know she has said that she intends to try something completely different and all . . . and she probably will for some time, but I wonder if it won't prove a little like Steven King's so-called retirement.

At least I hope . . .

--Infidel Goat

Amnorix
08-03-2005, 09:30 AM
It would also, of course, allow JKR to write another Hogwart's series down the line if she so chooses.

I know she has said that she intends to try something completely different and all . . . and she probably will for some time, but I wonder if it won't prove a little like Steven King's so-called retirement.

At least I hope . . .

--Infidel Goat

Agreed. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle could never get away from Sherlock Holmes either. He tried writing other stuff, but everyone wanted more Holmes.

He even KILLED Holmes off, but then resurrected him. :D

AZORChiefFan
08-09-2005, 12:37 AM
Goblet of Fire rated PG 13. AICN-link (http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=20945)

Which is good news considering how much darker the book is.