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View Full Version : anyone see the water powered car story on the news last night?


Mr. Laz
07-31-2005, 11:04 AM
said the car was in the final testing stages .... had passed all the safety and performance tests so far.


a normally framed car could travel 100 miles on 4 ounces of water


exhaust was water


:clap: :clap:

SNR
07-31-2005, 11:09 AM
I hope the O-zone gets a hole in it the size of Asia and we all get fried by the sun, so this is bad news for me.

SNR
07-31-2005, 11:10 AM
Also, wouldn't the water freeze up in the winter time?

Mr. Laz
07-31-2005, 11:11 AM
Also, wouldn't the water freeze up in the winter time?
good question

Chan93lx50
07-31-2005, 11:39 AM
Freezing water would be the least of my worries if this is true.

Is there a link to the story???

wazu
07-31-2005, 11:42 AM
Also, wouldn't the water freeze up in the winter time?

If they are smart enough to make a car that runs on water, I'm betting they are smart enough to design a way to keep the water warm.

Mr. Laz
07-31-2005, 11:44 AM
Freezing water would be the least of my worries if this is true.

Is there a link to the story???
i don't have a link ... was hoping someone else would


it was a feature story on the news last night(sat)


the guy originally was trying to develop a new type of welding torch.... but the system worked so well that he expanded it to a "combustion" engine.

they showed the car,engine and the welding torch running on water.

also showed that water by-product

said he had a contract with a major car manufacturer already and that it was in the final testing stages.


was a very cool story

ChiefFripp
07-31-2005, 11:59 AM
If a water power car is a viable option to gas burning cars, the oil companies will by up the patent and that will be the end of that.

Bowser
07-31-2005, 12:02 PM
If a water power car is a viable option to gas burning cars, the oil companies will by up the patent and that will be the end of that.

ROFL

"Yes, gawddammit! I want to buy the Pacific Ocean! What the **** is the problem here?"

Mr. Laz
07-31-2005, 12:03 PM
If a water power car is a viable option to gas burning cars, the oil companies will by up the patent and that will be the end of that.
i hope not ... :(


i would hope the guy with the patent would realize that it goes beyond money and won't sell to anyone that's not going to utilize the technology

Bowser
07-31-2005, 12:08 PM
i hope not ... :(


i would hope the guy with the patent would realize that it goes beyond money and won't sell to anyone that's not going to utilize the technology

Haha! You're an idealist, I see.

I completely agree with you, but I also know that chances of that happening are very slim.

alanm
07-31-2005, 12:12 PM
i hope not ... :(


i would hope the guy with the patent would realize that it goes beyond money and won't sell to anyone that's not going to utilize the technology
You offer the guy a couple of billion dollars he'll crack.

Mr. Laz
07-31-2005, 12:19 PM
You offer the guy a couple of billion dollars he'll crack.
maybe ... but he'll get hundreds of millions regardless



i remember he said that they used electricity and water through some kind of new special "Electrolysis" to create the combustion.

BigMeatballDave
07-31-2005, 12:23 PM
This sounds too good to be true. I really hope it is. We'll see, I guess. I cannot imagine the government letting this happen. Pulling out your garden hose to fill your tank? Where's the tax revenue in that?

Mr. Laz
07-31-2005, 12:25 PM
This sounds too good to be true. I really hope it is. We'll see, I guess. I cannot imagine the government letting this happen. Pulling out your garden hose to fill your tank? Where's the tax revenue in that?
what better way to fight terrorism than to cut off their money supply by making oil obsolete?


nobody will give a single rats arse about the middle east once oil doesn't matter.

Archie F. Swin
07-31-2005, 12:26 PM
exhaust was water


The exhaust would probably be water vapor, which is also a greenhouse gas. Probably not a smog maker though.

Skip Towne
07-31-2005, 12:29 PM
I hope the A-rabs are shittin' their pants. They go back to nothin' but goats and sand.

Mr. Laz
07-31-2005, 12:32 PM
The exhaust would probably be water vapor, which is also a greenhouse gas. Probably not a smog maker though.

i don't know ...



i just don't know he put a steel plate up and you could see the water build up and start dripping.


which brings up another issue


if water is the exhaust, what kind of freezing issues with will have on our streets in the winter? Will they all be a sheet of ice because there are 10k cars dripping water on them?

stevieray
07-31-2005, 12:33 PM
what better way to fight terrorism than to cut off their money supply by making oil obsolete?


nobody will give a single rats arse about the middle east once oil doesn't matter.

uh, what about all the other things that use oil besides cars??

Bowser
07-31-2005, 12:36 PM
uh, what about all the other things that use oil besides cars??

True, but what else has the sheer numbers and consumption of automobiles?

alanm
07-31-2005, 12:37 PM
I hope the A-rabs are shittin' their pants. They go back to nothin' but goats and sand.
What do you mean go back? Hell they ain't progressed past that yet.

Mr. Laz
07-31-2005, 12:39 PM
uh, what about all the other things that use oil besides cars??
if a combustion type water engine is developed then i don't see why it can't be used for other things as well.

combustion is pretty interchangeable imo


you shoulda seen the welding torch ... said it was like twice as hot as the sun or something. Burned right through a piece of metal during the segment.

another thing that was cool was that the tip of the torch only got warm to the touch even during the cutting process... it only got hot once it touched the metal. He had his fingers on the tip up close on the camera shot. :thumb:


loved the story ... gave me hope(and that's saying something)




so don't go trying to crush my Utopian dreams :p

stevieray
07-31-2005, 12:41 PM
True, but what else has the sheer numbers and consumption of automobiles?

coming up with water based cars does not eliminate the need for oil.

plastics? hydraulics? airplanes?

Pants
07-31-2005, 12:44 PM
coming up with water based cars does not eliminate the need for oil.

plastics? hydraulics? airplanes?

It cuts it down immensly, though. I'm sure they can come up with some sort of hydrolics fluid that doesn't require oil, if they haven't yet.

AirForceChief
07-31-2005, 12:45 PM
coming up with water based cars does not eliminate the need for oil.

plastics? hydraulics? airplanes?

The largest source of demand would be gone, oil would plummet to around $15 a barrel.

stevieray
07-31-2005, 12:46 PM
It cuts it down immensly, though. I'm sure they can come up with some sort of hydrolics fluid that doesn't require oil, if they haven't yet.

ya, and the plastic mouse in your hand?

:rolleyes:

stevieray
07-31-2005, 12:47 PM
The largest source of demand would be gone, oil would plummet to around $15 a barrel.

and what would fuel the military? and the airlines? and heavy equipment, and printing presses?

stumppy
07-31-2005, 12:48 PM
What network did you see it on ?

Pants
07-31-2005, 12:49 PM
and what would fuel the military?

OK, stevie, you're right, having a combustion engine running on water instead of gas wouldn't change anything all that much. :rolleyes:

stevieray
07-31-2005, 12:50 PM
OK, stevie, you're right, having a combustion engine running on water instead of gas wouldn't change anything all that much. :rolleyes:

what are you going make the car out of ?

Mr. Laz
07-31-2005, 12:50 PM
The largest source of demand would be gone, oil would plummet to around $15 a barrel.

yep ... while petroleum based products would still exist the relationship of supply and demand would completely collapse with the combustion engine removed from the equation.


oil would become an afterthought in the world's economy ... like bananas or something.



the price would bottom out

stevieray
07-31-2005, 12:50 PM
[QUOTE=Metrolike]OK, stevie, you're right, having a combustion engine running on water instead of gas wouldn't change anything all that much. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE

I didn't say it wouldn't change, just that it wouldn't eliminate the need.

Pay attention.

Mr. Laz
07-31-2005, 12:54 PM
What network did you see it on ?

i don't remember which newscast it was :(


channel 4,5 or 9

sorry


i already tried to look up the story on their websites... but i couldn't find it.


http://www.kctv.com/
http://www.wdaftv4.com/
http://www.kshb.com/
http://www.nbcactionnews.com/

Ari Chi3fs
07-31-2005, 12:55 PM
http://www.verbodennieuws.nl/Stan_Meyers_bb-Car-Engine-Running-on-Water.wmv

http://www.genesis-scientific.org/genesis_scientific.htm

Mr. Laz
07-31-2005, 12:56 PM
btw - they showed him drive up to his workshop driving a factory bodied ford taurus using an electric/water hybrid engine in it.

so he's using one already

happy dance PBJ PBJ

Mr. Laz
07-31-2005, 12:59 PM
http://www.verbodennieuws.nl/Stan_Meyers_bb-Car-Engine-Running-on-Water.wmv

http://www.genesis-scientific.org/genesis_scientific.htm
nice ... that's a different guy though


so apparently we have several options getting close :) :)

Ari Chi3fs
07-31-2005, 01:01 PM
heh... if this goes through... then, the price of bottled water will explode.

Mr. Laz
07-31-2005, 01:08 PM
heh... if this goes through... then, the price of bottled water will explode.

we'll definitely have to replace some of those oil refineries with Water purification plants. :)

stevieray
07-31-2005, 01:10 PM
heh... if this goes through... then, the price of bottled water will explode.


We already pay more for bottled water per gallon than we do gas.

Skip Towne
07-31-2005, 01:10 PM
Some genious will find a way to make water scarce and it will go to $5.00 per gallon.

stevieray
07-31-2005, 01:14 PM
http://www.verbodennieuws.nl/Stan_Meyers_bb-Car-Engine-Running-on-Water.wmv

http://www.genesis-scientific.org/genesis_scientific.htm

I'll admit that's pretty damn cool...I wonder why we didn't think of this before, especially since we've used steam in the past.

Taco John
07-31-2005, 01:16 PM
i don't know ...



i just don't know he put a steel plate up and you could see the water build up and start dripping.


which brings up another issue


if water is the exhaust, what kind of freezing issues with will have on our streets in the winter? Will they all be a sheet of ice because there are 10k cars dripping water on them?


Why wouldn't you just want to recycle the exhast on the spot with a system that puts it back into the tank?

jiveturkey
07-31-2005, 01:18 PM
Why wouldn't you just want to recycle the exhast on the spot with a system that puts it back into the tank?Whoa!

That's deep.

|Zach|
07-31-2005, 01:20 PM
Cool story

Ari Chi3fs
07-31-2005, 01:28 PM
this is the best link so far...

http://www.genesis-scientific.org/pro_hicef.htm

Ultra Peanut
07-31-2005, 01:38 PM
Why wouldn't you just want to recycle the exhast on the spot with a system that puts it back into the tank?Ooh, you bad!

Chan93lx50
07-31-2005, 01:46 PM
If this has been done before, shown by the previous link why are we not driving water powered cars all over the country???

Something tells me there is a group of people in the world that makes sure nothing of this sort can possibly ever happen.

wutamess
07-31-2005, 01:55 PM
Laz,

It was on Fox 4 news.

It was truly amazing...
I saw the piece last night and did some research on the subject afterwords as far as the stock market.

He's signed a deal with UTEK in this. (UTK) stock symbol.

Currently it's going to $12.75 but doesn't seem to be doing really well at the time.

Google: Hydrogen Technology Applications (name of his company) lot's of stuff.

Google: Denny Klein (his name).

UTEK itself seems to be partnering with a lot of other companies with hydrogen technology.

Mr. Laz
07-31-2005, 02:07 PM
Why wouldn't you just want to recycle the exhast on the spot with a system that puts it back into the tank?
:doh!: :doh!: didn't think about that


makes sense to me



theoretically if you got the efficiency high enough you could create a completely sustained car. :clap:

Mr. Laz
07-31-2005, 02:09 PM
Laz,

It was on Fox 4 news.

It was truly amazing...
I saw the piece last night and did some research on the subject afterwords as far as the stock market.

He's signed a deal with UTEK in this. (UTK) stock symbol.

Currently it's going to $12.75 but doesn't seem to be doing really well at the time.

Google: Hydrogen Technology Applications (name of his company) lot's of stuff.

Google: Denny Klein (his name).

UTEK itself seems to be partnering with a lot of other companies with hydrogen technology.
ya, thought the story was totally cool


btw - thanks for verification etc ...

Mr. Laz
07-31-2005, 02:12 PM
Hydrogen Technology Applications, Inc.
Date: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 @ 07:12:54 PDT
Topic: Devices

Hydrogen Technology Applications, Inc. based out of Clearwater, Florida has just invented a new device called the H2O Model 1500 Gas Generator. The gas generator runs off water and produces a unique water/hydrogen gas that can be used for welding metal because of it's extreme heat capabilities. This is just the tip of the iceberg though. They also plan on using this very same process to run automobiles and other devices. That's right, a car that can run off water. Check out their website for more details.

Hydrogen Technology Applications, Inc.
4707 140th Avenue North, Suite 116
Clearwater, Florida 33762

HTA, Inc.

Phone: 1-727-531-5979
Fax: 1-727-531-3670

Mr. Denny Klein
President

Mr. Peter Dominici
Vice President of Finance & Information











This article comes from ZPEnergy.com
http://www.zpenergy.com

The URL for this story is:
http://www.zpenergy.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1425

mikey23545
07-31-2005, 02:26 PM
If this has been done before, shown by the previous link why are we not driving water powered cars all over the country???

Something tells me there is a group of people in the world that makes sure nothing of this sort can possibly ever happen.

That is just so much liberal paranoia...If this car is even economically viable,and an oil company got their hands on the patent, they'd probably go into business making water powered cars and make billions more than they make by selling gasoline, huh?.....No more incredibly expensive prospecting for oil, no more drilling holes that turn out to be dry, no more transporting oil over vast distances, paying for tankers and 1000 mile pipelines....

Loosen up the tin-foil beanies...

Valiant
07-31-2005, 02:27 PM
we'll definitely have to replace some of those oil refineries with Water purification plants. :)


Then we will have the problem of salinization of ocean water??? I believe that is what it is called.. Where the salt level gets so high it kills all life in the water(be it a ocean,lake,pond)...

Pants
07-31-2005, 02:28 PM
Why wouldn't you just want to recycle the exhast on the spot with a system that puts it back into the tank?

They do, that's why it takes 1.5 tanks to go from LA to NY.

mikey23545
07-31-2005, 02:40 PM
:doh!: :doh!: didn't think about that


makes sense to me



theoretically if you got the efficiency high enough you could create a completely sustained car. :clap:

That's it!
We'll solve our problems with a perpetual motion machine!

And you wonder why they require you to take science classes in school and study "useless" things like the laws of thermodynamics and such.....

deadbabyseal
07-31-2005, 02:45 PM
Then we will have the problem of salinization of ocean water??? I believe that is what it is called.. Where the salt level gets so high it kills all life in the water(be it a ocean,lake,pond)...
Flammond: You see, a year ago I was close to perfecting the first magnetic desalenization process. So revolutionary, it was capable of removing the salt from over 500 million gallons of sea water a day. Do you realize what this could mean to the starving nations of the Earth?
Nick: Wow! They'd have enough salt to last forever.

cdcox
07-31-2005, 03:17 PM
This is certainly good news, but before everyone gets too carried away, there is no free lunch here. You are not trading gasoline for water, you are trading gasoline for water and electricity.

Energy is required to move cars. Gasoline currently supplies that energy. In the car under discussion, energy is supplied by electricity. Electricity still has to come from somewhere. Power plants can be classified as fossil fuel (coal, oil, natural gas), hydroelectric, or nuclear. A small percentage of the energy in this country is supplied by wind, geothermal, solar, etc. If cars go electric, the demand for electricity will sky rocket and many more power plants of what ever stripe will have to be built. Most types of power plants have severe pollution issues of their own. All fossil fuel plants produce greenhouse gases and other pollutants as well such as nitrous oxides, sulfur compounds, etc. Hydroelectric is one type that doesn't produce air pollutants, but there are other environmental problems associated with them (habitat destruction) and the capacity for this type of plant is nearly maxed out in this country. It has been more than 30 years since construction on a new nuclear plant has been authorized in this country. Unless this changes, most of the new electricity will have to be generated by coal, which is about the dirtiest fuel around.

What is the role of water in these vehicles? It is to store energy, not to create it. Water has very little usable energy. However, excess energy in the car can be converted to electricity and used to break water down into hydrogen and oxygen. When the car demands energy any availble hydrogen and oxygen can be recombined to make water, thereby releasing the energy stored in those components. I'm unsure how this is more efficient that storing the energy in a rechargable battery (as in current hybrids) but it could be feasible.

What would the benefits of this type of car be:

Political: no more dependence on foreign oil.
Personal Economic: probably a wash. You will have to buy more electricity instead of gasoline.
National Economic: probably good. New technology will spawn jobs to replace jobs lost in the oil industry. Additional production of electricity will be required, which will also spawn jobs.
Environmental: Very little effect unless stronger pollution controls are put on power plants. This will drive the cost of electricity up, which you will have to pay for.

The effects would be way more complicated than I can discuss here, or even have the expertice to consider, but at least this lays some framework for a more informed discussion.

wutamess
07-31-2005, 03:23 PM
cd might be on to something.

Fox 4 said that he's turned his car into a hybrid.
I was wondering why he didn't turn it into a full water powered automobile?

saturnknts
07-31-2005, 03:52 PM
That is just so much liberal paranoia...If this car is even economically viable,and an oil company got their hands on the patent, they'd probably go into business making water powered cars and make billions more than they make by selling gasoline, huh?.....No more incredibly expensive prospecting for oil, no more drilling holes that turn out to be dry, no more transporting oil over vast distances, paying for tankers and 1000 mile pipelines....

Loosen up the tin-foil beanies...

why does someone always have to say this tin foil crap. unless you have definative proof that it is not possible for technologies to be "bought out", your opinion means no more and no less than anyone elses. not trying to argue just making an opinion.

cdcox
07-31-2005, 04:02 PM
why does someone always have to say this tin foil crap. unless you have definative proof that it is not possible for technologies to be "bought out", your opinion means no more and no less than anyone elses. not trying to argue just making an opinion.

Not all opinions are created equal. Those that are grounded in logic, experience, knowlege or training are worth more than those that are not.

For instance, a couple years ago I was having intense stomache pain. It was my opinion that I had an ulcer. When I went to see my doctor, his opinion was that I was having an appendicitis. He couldn't be sure, but it was his opinion that I have my appendix out. I definitely went with his opinion because it was worth more than mine.

I suggest that in order to increase the value of your opinion, you should document one case in which a company aquired a the intellectual property rights to a vastly superior technology and instead of exploiting tha technology they buried it. Document a single case and your opinion will have much more value.

Mr. Laz
07-31-2005, 05:33 PM
cd might be on to something.

Fox 4 said that he's turned his car into a hybrid.
I was wondering why he didn't turn it into a full water powered automobile?
apparently the car he had was hybrid but i think that because it provides the electricity to start the electrolysis.

they have cars right now that use the breaking power of the car to generate electricity to recharge the batteries.

no plugging in the car to charge etc.


i think his was the same way

thepascalblaze
07-31-2005, 06:17 PM
Quick response to plastics side topic earlier; a variety of palstics have been made from vegetable oils for some time. I don't know that every use of every plastic can cross over yet, but the household things we have come to know and love can... certainly the mouse in your hand.

BigMeatballDave
07-31-2005, 06:40 PM
I don't think Oil companies are trying to stop this. I'm thinking it has somethig to do with Local, State and Federal taxes. How could they tax people for putting water in your car? Its like marijuana. There is no good way to tax it, and people can just grow their own...

Mr. Laz
09-04-2005, 06:57 PM
for jiveturkey



bumpity

jiveturkey
09-04-2005, 07:17 PM
for jiveturkey



bumpity
Thanks bro.

I keep talking about this but everyone thinks that I'm crazy. Those people are now recieving and email that includes a large middle finger.

Mr. Laz
09-04-2005, 07:21 PM
Thanks bro
no problem


i like this snippet:

http://www.zpenergy.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1473

As the price of gasoline continues to rise, many consumers are turning to hybrid cars. But an inventor says he's found a simpler solution. In the Fox Files, we reveal his unusual fuel source. It's one you may not believe...

Denny Klein fires up his hot new invention. His machine emits a flame that feels only slightly warm to the touch. But watch what happens when he touches anything else. "I can burn a hole right through that brick."

The flame instantly turns hotter than the surface of the sun. Heat so intense, it takes only seconds to literally burn a hole through charcoal. Three seconds turns a brass ball to glowing liquid metal.
Tungsten lights up like a sparkler. Steel, lead and other metals slice on contact. Yet the tip of the welder remains cool to the touch. "no other gas will do this." Denny Klein uses an alternative fuel source once thought impossible. He says people still can't believe him when he reveals his liquid fuel. "water. Water and electricity; it's an electrolysis process."

Klein just patented his process of converting h20 to hho, producing a gas that combines the atomic power of hydrogen with the chemical stability of water. "it turns right back to water. In fact, you can see the h20 running off the sheet metal." Klein originally designed his water-burning engine for cutting metal. He thought his invention could replace acetylene in welding factories. Then one day as he drove to his laboratory in Clearwater, he thought of another way to burn his hho gas. "on a 100 mile trip, we use about four ounces of water." Klein says his prototype 1994 Ford Escort can travel exclusively on water, though he currently has it rigged to run as a water and gasoline hybrid.

"simply speaking, our plan is to end our dependence on fossil fuels." Pete Domeneci is helping Klein take his hydrogen technology patents from a two room office to top consumer markets around the world. "you know what? Microsoft started from a small garage, why not Hydrogen Technologies?" The duo is already in negotiations with one US auto maker and the US government. Their plans have grown from basic welding with water to powering the entire world with the safest and cleanest fuel on earth: water. Members of Congress recently invited Denny Klein to Washington to demonstrate his technology. Now his company is currently developing a Hummer for the US military that can run on both water and gasoline. So far, his water-powered engines have passed all performance safety inspections.

http://hytechapps.com/
Hydrogen Technology Applications, Inc.
4707 140th Avenue North, Suite 116
Clearwater, Florida 33762
Phone: 1-727-531-5979
Fax: 1-727-531-3670
Mr. Denny Klein, President
Mr. Peter Dominici, Vice President of Finance & Information


[Ed: Patent can be found at (I think): http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=US2004074781&F=0]

Mr. Laz
09-04-2005, 07:25 PM
already taking early-bird orders for the the water powered generator

http://hytechapps.com/machine1.jpg


the test car

morphius
09-04-2005, 07:32 PM
This would be nice, I also like the idea of going 100% bio diesel engines with some added hybrid technology. Toss in a couple nice batteries that you can charge over night to extend the range of the electric to save on the amount of bio needed. The technology is already all out there, not only to create the engine and the associtiated parts, but also the fuel. I could see this being something that could be in place in less then 5 years.

KC Kings
09-04-2005, 07:43 PM
apparently the car he had was hybrid but i think that because it provides the electricity to start the electrolysis.

they have cars right now that use the breaking power of the car to generate electricity to recharge the batteries.

no plugging in the car to charge etc.


i think his was the same way

I always wondered why you couldn't have 4 battery cells in a car, each one powers one wheel, and all four wheels have alternators on them. As the first pair of batteries powered the front axle, the real axles alternators would recharge those batteries, and all alternators would kick on when coasting and there would be extra alternator gears that kick in while braking to be used as a down shift effect.

I used to have one of those lame bike headlights when I was a kid, and the drag the alternator wheel created wasn't that much, and it always seemed like as long as the drag or resistance created was less than the charge created this would work. I realize that I am not smart enough to comprehend the physics behind my theory, or guys would be using it instead of making a portable electrolysis engine. (How can the tip not be hot if you have a flame as hot as the sun a few inches away??? Propane is a cold gas, and when it comes out of a torch it is a cold gas, yet the heat from the flame makes the tip of the torch hot.)

Mr. Laz
09-04-2005, 07:51 PM
(How can the tip not be hot if you have a flame as hot as the sun a few inches away??? Propane is a cold gas, and when it comes out of a torch it is a cold gas, yet the heat from the flame makes the tip of the torch hot.)
i don't know either ... but saw it myself on the video in the news broadcast.


he fired up the arc welder and you saw this flame shoot out like a regular welder. Then he reached up with his bare hands and touched the tip of it. Then immediately put the flame to metal and it started cutting.

was a great segment ... i really hope the car is getting close to production.

KC Jones
09-04-2005, 08:01 PM
So the only problem is you need a huge ****ing energy supply to get the hydrogen from the water via electrolysis. So, you have a big ass battery. Where does the battery get it's power from? oh - coal burning generators. Better be able to plug in regularly to recharge too. The cost per mile is probably much higher than gasoline. THAT is what we need to look at (in addition to the nice benefits of no exhaust, etc.).

Frankly hydrogen is no power supply - it's simply an energy transportation medium. However we have to spend a great deal more energy to get hydrogen than we do for other sources.

jiveturkey
09-04-2005, 08:08 PM
already taking early-bird orders for the the water powered generator

http://hytechapps.com/machine1.jpg


the test carWould it be possible to cut your house off of outside electricity sources and run off of water powered generators?

This all seems unreal.

morphius
09-04-2005, 08:16 PM
hmmm, guess we are not that low on oil afterall...

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/news_columnists/article/0,1299,DRMN_86_4051709,00.html

Mr. Laz
09-04-2005, 08:30 PM
hmmm, guess we are not that low on oil afterall...

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/news_columnists/article/0,1299,DRMN_86_4051709,00.html

that's pretty cool... isn't it :)

tiptap
09-04-2005, 09:55 PM
http://www.heatnglo.com/products/fireplaces/aqueon/aqueonhome.asp
http://www.nrcs.usda.gov/technical/land/meta/m2137.html
not at the price point of this car discussion but others are looking at hydrogen production and combustion from H20. Need to move east though to claim your stake in H20.

BigMeatballDave
09-04-2005, 10:21 PM
hmmm, guess we are not that low on oil afterall...

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/news_columnists/article/0,1299,DRMN_86_4051709,00.htmlWhile we were trying to do the math, O'Connor told us the answers. Upwards of a million barrels an acre, a billion barrels a square mile. And the oil shale formation in the Green River Basin, most of which is in Colorado, covers more than a thousand square miles - the largest fossil fuel deposits in the world.

Wow. HOLY SHIT!

Dave Lane
09-05-2005, 12:35 AM
i don't have a link ... was hoping someone else would


it was a feature story on the news last night(sat)


the guy originally was trying to develop a new type of welding torch.... but the system worked so well that he expanded it to a "combustion" engine.

they showed the car,engine and the welding torch running on water.

also showed that water by-product

said he had a contract with a major car manufacturer already and that it was in the final testing stages.


was a very cool story

As a Chemical Engineer in another life I assure you this is not possible.

Dave

~sorry to rain on the parade

keg in kc
09-05-2005, 12:50 AM
As a Chemical Engineer in another lifeI didn't realize you cooked up meth.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-05-2005, 01:04 AM
I didn't realize you cooked up meth.

Recreational Pharmaceuticals anyone? :)

CrazyPhuD
09-05-2005, 02:39 AM
As a Chemical Engineer in another life I assure you this is not possible.

Dave

~sorry to rain on the parade

:thumb:

not a ChemE but I agree. The 'inventor' here is trying to create a sham. Everytime you see a major fuel crisis you get crackpots coming out of the woodwork and this guy is no different.

two basic operations...

Electroysis in short is adding energy to water to break H2O molecules into hydrogen(H2) and oxygen(O2) gas. In short

2 H20 + energy = 2 H2 + O2

Now that you've broken the water down into O2 and H2 gas, if you want to drive your car you need to either combust the H2 and O2 gas in your engine or use a chemical reaction like a fuel cell to release that energy. In either case combining H2 and O2 gas will give you water + energy or...

2 H2 + O2 = 2 H2O + energy

Now due to conservation of energy the amount of enery used in electrolysis to break water to H2 and O2 gas and the amount of energy freed when combining H2 and O2 gas MUST be the same.

So if you use the same amount of energy to break down water as you release when you combust H2 and O2 gas then what energy is left to actually move the car? The answer is none.....

So if he has no energy left over to move the car then how can he travel 100 miles? Simple answer, he has a second energy source that he uses to break the water into H2 and O2 gasses, he then uses the energy from combusting the O2 and H2 gases to move the car.

So what is the secondary energy source? Either he has a large battery rack, like a traditional hybrid, that stores the energy he uses to break down the water. Or he has a gasoline engine that he uses to generate power to break down the water. Wait didn't he say it was going to be a gas/water hybrid at first? :hmmm: I wonder why....

Really there is no magic bullet here. To do anything really interesting he'd have to break some of the thermodynamic laws....just isn't going to happen. He's trying to pull the wool over a bunch of people's eyes and eventually people will figure it out.

tiptap
09-05-2005, 07:09 AM
:thumb:

not a ChemE but I agree. The 'inventor' here is trying to create a sham. Everytime you see a major fuel crisis you get crackpots coming out of the woodwork and this guy is no different.

two basic operations...

Electroysis in short is adding energy to water to break H2O molecules into hydrogen(H2) and oxygen(O2) gas. In short

2 H20 + energy = 2 H2 + O2

Now that you've broken the water down into O2 and H2 gas, if you want to drive your car you need to either combust the H2 and O2 gas in your engine or use a chemical reaction like a fuel cell to release that energy. In either case combining H2 and O2 gas will give you water + energy or...

2 H2 + O2 = 2 H2O + energy

Now due to conservation of energy the amount of enery used in electrolysis to break water to H2 and O2 gas and the amount of energy freed when combining H2 and O2 gas MUST be the same.

So if you use the same amount of energy to break down water as you release when you combust H2 and O2 gas then what energy is left to actually move the car? The answer is none.....

So if he has no energy left over to move the car then how can he travel 100 miles? Simple answer, he has a second energy source that he uses to break the water into H2 and O2 gasses, he then uses the energy from combusting the O2 and H2 gases to move the car.

So what is the secondary energy source? Either he has a large battery rack, like a traditional hybrid, that stores the energy he uses to break down the water. Or he has a gasoline engine that he uses to generate power to break down the water. Wait didn't he say it was going to be a gas/water hybrid at first? :hmmm: I wonder why....

Really there is no magic bullet here. To do anything really interesting he'd have to break some of the thermodynamic laws....just isn't going to happen. He's trying to pull the wool over a bunch of people's eyes and eventually people will figure it out.


Will as a chemist you gross assessment is correct. Violation of the 1st law of Thermodynamics is impossible. But you are insisting that the the decomposition process of water is fixed. In that there is no enviroment that you manufactor where water can be seperated into hydrogen and oxygen at a lower energy threshold. The discussion has to be that there is no catalyst or exotic condition where the pecularities of water molecules are not induced to be reduced at a lower input of energy. And then in a normal oxidation step the recombination of hydrogen and oxygen gives us a net energy production. Biological enzymes facilitate movement of one substance into another all the time that would be prohibitive in un catalyzed reaction where the 'activation energy' level isn't lowered by the enzymes. So while one does need to be skeptical of the claims of anyone to have discovered that special circumstance that allows the disassociation of water at lower activation energies, it is premature to say that an efficient combustion process of Hydrogen and Oxygen could not provide net energy gain of a facilitated decomposition. Now my bet is that you will need some energy input but it could by this process be reduced to amount that could be met by a greatly reduced amount of gasoline or maybe even solar plates.

FRCDFED
09-05-2005, 07:23 AM
hmmm, guess we are not that low on oil afterall...

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/news_columnists/article/0,1299,DRMN_86_4051709,00.html
This is a very logical approach. Sounds like it could be a good investment if it were to every enter into production in my lifetime. What would the stock symbol be?

mikey23545
09-05-2005, 07:25 AM
This is what happens when you have a population of scientific illiterates and a snake-oil salesman in close proximity...

I urge all of you liberals out there to invest every cent you have in this scientific breakthrough...Please!

tiptap
09-05-2005, 07:34 AM
This is a very logical approach. Sounds like it could be a good investment if it were to every enter into production in my lifetime. What would the stock symbol be?

It is always important to remember that if Allah blessed the Middle East and many other Islamic countries with 10 of thousands of barrels of oil, that Jehova still has buried 100,000 of equivalent barrels of energy in the form of oil shale and coal in the US. These are dirtier and more expensive processing concerns but these resouces are part of the reason why we can run such a deficit in trade now. In the long run we do have these enormous reserves. Now I would prefer we move toward a more solar/wind economy since it would be more distributive and less welded by centralized corporations. But I never was all that worried about our standing in energy or carbon reserves for the next 500 years. (Oh the other two of the Big Three Coal Kings are China and Russia)

morphius
09-05-2005, 07:44 AM
This is a very logical approach. Sounds like it could be a good investment if it were to every enter into production in my lifetime. What would the stock symbol be?
I don't know, it sounded like it was Shell.

Herzig
09-05-2005, 09:28 AM
This is what happens when you have a population of scientific illiterates and a snake-oil salesman in close proximity...

I urge all of you liberals out there to invest every cent you have in this scientific breakthrough...Please!

Scientific illiterates? Isn't that an oxymoron?

So conservatives shouldn't invest in this technology so that we can conserve gas? What about us folks who are non partisan? :spock:

Man, I don't really care for all the damn fingerpointing going on in our country(by both sides). What good does it do? Let's all shut up and DO something about our damned problems.

mikey23545
09-05-2005, 10:02 AM
Scientific illiterates? Isn't that an oxymoron?

So conservatives shouldn't invest in this technology so that we can conserve gas? What about us folks who are non partisan? :spock:

Man, I don't really care for all the damn fingerpointing going on in our country(by both sides). What good does it do? Let's all shut up and DO something about our damned problems.

You really need to work on reading comprehension...I am saying THERE IS NO TECHNOLOGY TO INVEST IN...This is a classic "perpetual motion" type invention...It just smacks of selling the Brooklyn Bridge...Just like the famous 200 mpg carbureter. I am pretty sure this guy is a charlatan.

If any conservatives are stupid enough to invest in it, have at it...

Oh, and "scientific illiterate" means someone who has very little knowledge of technical matters as opposed to a "regular" illiterate...Then there are some folks who combine both in a stunning display of ignorance...

Mr. Laz
09-05-2005, 11:50 AM
As a Chemical Engineer in another life I assure you this is not possible.

Dave

~sorry to rain on the parade
then i guess you'll have to email this to the guy WHO IS ACTUALLY DRIVING THE CAR right now and tell him he's just dreaming.

Brock
09-05-2005, 12:55 PM
I don't see how this could work. What is the energy source?

KC Jones
09-05-2005, 01:24 PM
I don't see how this could work. What is the energy source?

our power grid - basically taking electricity from our existing power grid and using it in an extremely inefficient manner (via a big battery that must be recharged regularly) to separate the Hydrogen from Oxygen in H2O so that you can burn the hydrogen.

So many people lack a basic understanding of chemistry and thermodynamics :shake:

Brock
09-05-2005, 01:28 PM
our power grid - basically taking electricity from our existing power grid and using it in an extremely inefficient manner (via a big battery that must be recharged regularly) to separate the Hydrogen from Oxygen in H2O so that you can burn the hydrogen.

So many people lack a basic understanding of chemistry and thermodynamics :shake:

Yeah - I don't know why we don't spend the money on a tech that actually works, like biodiesel.

KC Kings
09-05-2005, 01:40 PM
what better way to fight terrorism than to cut off their money supply ...


What, did somebody find a way to convert water into poppies?

KC Jones
09-05-2005, 01:51 PM
Yeah - I don't know why we don't spend the money on a tech that actually works, like biodiesel.

Hydrogen is fine as an energy transport medium provided we have enough energy produced cheaply enough to 'store' as H2. That's what makes oil and coal so great - they contain a great deal of energy in a form that's ready to burn. With biodeisel, you have to spend a great deal of energy producing the crops and then refining it to create the fuel. I'm not sure there is much of a net positive output if any.

So, if we build a crap load of hydroelectric dams, nuclear power plants, wind farms, etc. and start trully conserving energy we will probably be able to fuel vehicles with hydrogen.

There are also some neat ideas out there for collecting methane from our sewage and agrobusinesses as well for supplementing the grid. Especially from hog farms.

KC Jones
09-05-2005, 02:02 PM
Here's a neat proposal I found a few years ago:

http://www.aip.org/tip/INPHFA/vol-10/iss-5/p20.html

KC Kings
09-05-2005, 02:12 PM
It is always important to remember that if Allah blessed the Middle East and many other Islamic countries with 10 of thousands of barrels of oil, that Jehova still has buried 100,000 of equivalent barrels of energy in the form of oil shale and coal in the US. These are dirtier and more expensive processing concerns but these resouces are part of the reason why we can run such a deficit in trade now. In the long run we do have these enormous reserves. Now I would prefer we move toward a more solar/wind economy since it would be more distributive and less welded by centralized corporations. But I never was all that worried about our standing in energy or carbon reserves for the next 500 years. (Oh the other two of the Big Three Coal Kings are China and Russia)

Would it be possible to build a self sustaining windmill system in a closed off area such as a warehouse? Could you take battery power to make a fan blade turn to produce wind, then harvest enough wind/energy from a windmill to replenish the power used to turn the fan blade?

Maybe not, but even if you come close you could create a wind tunnel in the shape if a doughnut, with 4 fans at each corner. Then place a series of 10 windmills between each fan to convert the wind into power. You could even decrease the diameter of the wind tunnel as you got further into the windmill system to create more pressure and keep the blades turning.

Mr. Laz
09-05-2005, 02:20 PM
What, did somebody find a way to convert water into poppies?
i think you'll find that a significant portion of the money funding terrorism comes from oil.


remove/reduce the importance of oil from the middle east and it just becomes a big wasteland.

cdcox
09-05-2005, 02:25 PM
Would it be possible to build a self sustaining windmill system in a closed off area such as a warehouse? Could you take battery power to make a fan blade turn to produce wind, then harvest enough wind/energy from a windmill to replenish the power used to turn the fan blade?

Maybe not, but even if you come close you could create a wind tunnel in the shape if a doughnut, with 4 fans at each corner. Then place a series of 10 windmills between each fan to convert the wind into power. You could even decrease the diameter of the wind tunnel as you got further into the windmill system to create more pressure and keep the blades turning.

These are essentially prepetual motion machines. If there was no such thing as friction or other energy losses, the best you could do is break even. No net power.

Pitt Gorilla
09-05-2005, 02:28 PM
We already pay more for bottled water per gallon than we do gas.
A gallon of bottled Culligan is around 33 cents at the grocery store. WTF are you talking about?

Pitt Gorilla
09-05-2005, 02:39 PM
Yeah - I don't know why we don't spend the money on a tech that actually works, like biodiesel.I've been pimping biodiesel for years. Columbia, MO uses it in all of their public transit.

Dave Lane
09-05-2005, 03:03 PM
Would it be possible to build a self sustaining windmill system in a closed off area such as a warehouse? Could you take battery power to make a fan blade turn to produce wind, then harvest enough wind/energy from a windmill to replenish the power used to turn the fan blade?

Maybe not, but even if you come close you could create a wind tunnel in the shape if a doughnut, with 4 fans at each corner. Then place a series of 10 windmills between each fan to convert the wind into power. You could even decrease the diameter of the wind tunnel as you got further into the windmill system to create more pressure and keep the blades turning.

Nice thought but too much loss of energy to friction. All of the goof ball ideas are just that. Now IF someone could get cold fusion to actually work well there you go!

Dave

Brock
09-05-2005, 03:05 PM
I've been pimping biodiesel for years. Columbia, MO uses it in all of their public transit.

I am seriously thinking of trading in my gas vehicles on a diesel truck. By buying one of these kits, I can make biodiesel out of french fry grease for 70 cents per gallon.

http://freedomfuelamerica.com/index.asp

stevieray
09-05-2005, 03:22 PM
A gallon of bottled Culligan is around 33 cents at the grocery store. WTF are you talking about?

WTF is your problem?

I see bottled water from .99 to 1.19 for twelve ounce to 16 ounces.

Rausch
09-05-2005, 03:25 PM
I am seriously thinking of trading in my gas vehicles on a diesel truck. By buying one of these kits, I can make biodiesel out of french fry grease for 70 cents per gallon.

http://freedomfuelamerica.com/index.asp

There is a priest not 4 blocks from me doing that very thing. I've been meaning to go talk to the guy. There was an article on him in one of the papers...I need see if I can find it... :hmmm: