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View Full Version : Fredex NOT in danger of being cut!


Big Chief Homer
08-03-2005, 10:07 AM
I didnt see a post on this yet.

I was reading through some of the press coverage and theres a blurb in the july 31st morning interview where DV states Freddie will be on the team Injury or not.Thats the way i took it anyhow.

Qustion:Is that a set back for him(freddie) because he's new?

DV:It never helps to get hurt...It never helps,but I think that applies more to guys who are struggling to make the football team,than to someone who has already established himself AND WHO YOU KNOW IS GOING TO BE HERE.We wont hold it against him.


Sounds to me like Fred is already set on the 53 man roster unless his injury put him on the PUP.

BCH

TRR
08-03-2005, 10:07 AM
He's a lock.

jAZ
08-03-2005, 10:15 AM
If he believes that, then he must really trust that not having surgery is the best thing for him long-term.

I'm kinda suprised about that either way.

milkman
08-03-2005, 10:29 AM
DV:It never helps to get hurt...It never helps,but I think that applies more to guys who are struggling to make the football team,than to someone who has already established himself AND WHO YOU KNOW IS GOING TO BE HERE.We wont hold it against him.


First, when exactly did First Clown Freddie establish himself?
I musta missed that day.

Second, how can Dick just dismiss the idea that any of the young guys will win a job over First Clown Freddie?

This, IMO, is just another example of a senile old fart making a dumbass statement.

Mile High Mania
08-03-2005, 10:40 AM
This is great news.

TRR
08-03-2005, 10:41 AM
First, when exactly did First Clown Freddie establish himself?
I musta missed that day.

Second, how can Dick just dismiss the idea that any of the young guys will win a job over First Clown Freddie?

This, IMO, is just another example of a senile old fart making a dumbass statement.

And what young guy on the team has done anything more than ride the pine? Boerigter can't stay healthy, Horn is an All Pro on the practice squad, Richard Smith is ALWAYS hurt and doesn't show up when the real lights turn on, Crow Thorpe hasn't done anything yet, and all of our WR's sent to NFL Europe struggled.

Don't get me wrong, Mitchell isn't a great WR. But he does have starter experience, has made some big plays in his career, has Super Bowl experience, and is only 26 years old. Does any of our other young WR's have that?

TRR
08-03-2005, 10:41 AM
This is great news.

Yes it is.

htismaqe
08-03-2005, 10:42 AM
And what young guy on the team has done anything more than ride the pine? Boerigter can't stay healthy, Horn is an All Pro on the practice squad, Richard Smith is ALWAYS hurt and doesn't show up when the real lights turn on, Crow Thorpe hasn't done anything yet, and all of our WR's sent to NFL Europe struggled.

Don't get me wrong, Mitchell isn't a great WR. But he does have starter experience, has made some big plays in his career, has Super Bowl experience, and is only 26 years old. Does any of our other young WR's have that?

Yep.

Big Chief Homer
08-03-2005, 10:45 AM
And what young guy on the team has done anything more than ride the pine? Boerigter can't stay healthy, Horn is an All Pro on the practice squad, Richard Smith is ALWAYS hurt and doesn't show up when the real lights turn on, Crow Thorpe hasn't done anything yet, and all of our WR's sent to NFL Europe struggled.

Don't get me wrong, Mitchell isn't a great WR. But he does have starter experience, has made some big plays in his career, has Super Bowl experience, and is only 26 years old. Does any of our other young WR's have that?
:clap: :clap: :thumb:

the Talking Can
08-03-2005, 10:51 AM
That sucks.

His presence should not be predetermined. Plus, he really sucks.

milkman
08-03-2005, 10:58 AM
And what young guy on the team has done anything more than ride the pine? Boerigter can't stay healthy, Horn is an All Pro on the practice squad, Richard Smith is ALWAYS hurt and doesn't show up when the real lights turn on, Crow Thorpe hasn't done anything yet, and all of our WR's sent to NFL Europe struggled.

Don't get me wrong, Mitchell isn't a great WR. But he does have starter experience, has made some big plays in his career, has Super Bowl experience, and is only 26 years old. Does any of our other young WR's have that?

First Clown Freddie has made one big play in his career, a play that was as much the fault of the Packer D as it was the result of anything First Clown did.

And exactly how many catches did First Clown have in that SB?

Yes Boe has had health issues, but that doesn't discount the fact that he's a guy that has potential, especially if his vision issues are resolved.

Richard Smith is always hurt?
How can anyone make that claim of a player that was a rookie last year?

Thorpe hasn't done anything yet.
Neither has DJ. I guess we should just cut his ass right now.

jidar1
08-03-2005, 10:58 AM
First, when exactly did First Clown Freddie establish himself?
I musta missed that day.

Second, how can Dick just dismiss the idea that any of the young guys will win a job over First Clown Freddie?

This, IMO, is just another example of a senile old fart making a dumbass statement.


100% true. You had to be deluded to think Fredex was gonna get cut.

Otter
08-03-2005, 12:06 PM
Boerigter can't stay healthy

I think can't "get" healthy is a more accurate statement. He has a grand total of 158 yards since being hurt in 2002 (yes that's 2002) and he's still not taking part in training camp. It's getting ridiculous.

How is Richard Smith always hurt? If I remember correctly he didn't even play till about 1/2 through the season because of the Chiefs 'don't play the rookies' philosiphy.

J Diddy
08-03-2005, 12:08 PM
I think can't "get" healthy is a more accurate statement. He has a grand total of 158 yards since being hurt in 2002 (yes that's 2002) and he's still not taking part in training camp. It's getting ridiculous.

How is Richard Smith always hurt? If I remember correctly he didn't even play till about 1/2 through the season because of the Chiefs 'don't play the rookies' philosiphy.

Wrong he was playing the first couple of games, didn't produce so they tried someone else. Almost had a couple of plays in the Carolina game I went to.

TRR
08-03-2005, 12:20 PM
First Clown Freddie has made one big play in his career, a play that was as much the fault of the Packer D as it was the result of anything First Clown did.

And exactly how many catches did First Clown have in that SB?

Yes Boe has had health issues, but that doesn't discount the fact that he's a guy that has potential, especially if his vision issues are resolved.

Richard Smith is always hurt?
How can anyone make that claim of a player that was a rookie last year?

Thorpe hasn't done anything yet.
Neither has DJ. I guess we should just cut his ass right now.

You can argue with me all you want. Bottom line is Mitchell is on the squad barring any injury.

milkman
08-03-2005, 12:23 PM
You can argue with me all you want. Bottom line is Mitchell is on the squad barring any injury.

Oh I don't doubt it.

Bottom line is that Dick is a senile old bastard that will play favorites to the detriment of his team.

One only need look to Eric Hicks to see the proof of that.

Reaper16
08-03-2005, 12:24 PM
First Clown Freddie has made one big play in his career, a play that was as much the fault of the Packer D as it was the result of anything First Clown did.

And exactly how many catches did First Clown have in that SB?

Yes Boe has had health issues, but that doesn't discount the fact that he's a guy that has potential, especially if his vision issues are resolved.

Richard Smith is always hurt?
How can anyone make that claim of a player that was a rookie last year?

Thorpe hasn't done anything yet.
Neither has DJ. I guess we should just cut his ass right now.

I'd like to think that McNabb's scramble and pass completion to Freddie against Dallas last year was a big play as well.

jspchief
08-03-2005, 12:34 PM
First Clown Freddie has made one big play in his career...Talk about dumbass statements.... I think a cliche about glass houses would fit nicely here.

I'm guessing you really have no idea how many big plays Mitchell has made in his career. Just because you can only think of one, doesn't mean that's the only one. Over two-thirds of his career catches have been for first downs.

While he may not be a superstar, I think the point being made was that he has a hell of a lot more experience than the guys you seem to think will replace him.

How many big plays does Richard Smith have? Horn? Boe? Parker?

the Talking Can
08-03-2005, 12:38 PM
Talk about dumbass statements.... I think a cliche about glass houses would fit nicely here.

I'm guessing you really have no idea how many big plays Mitchell has made in his career. Just because you can only think of one, doesn't mean that's the only one. Over two-thirds of his career catches have been for first downs.

While he may not be a superstar, I think the point being made was that he has a hell of a lot more experience than the guys you seem to think will replace him.

How many big plays does Richard Smith have? Horn? Boe? Parker?

Fraud-ex has 5 td catches.....for his career....Bo has [insert answer here]....I'm rooting for Bo.

Fradu-ex has averaged 22 catches a year.

htismaqe
08-03-2005, 12:43 PM
Fradu-ex has averaged 22 catches a year.

That's 7.5 more per year than Bo, and I was nice in leaving out Bo's injuries.

the Talking Can
08-03-2005, 12:45 PM
That's 7.5 more per year than Bo, and I was nice in leaving out Bo's injuries.

Yes, but Bo wasn't a #1 and #2 option the entire time, and he wasn't a #1 draft pick.

We already know that Fred-ex sucks. I'm rooting for Bo and hope that DV gives him a fair chance...which I doubt.

If Freddy is really the best option at #3WR then fine....but I doubt it.

htismaqe
08-03-2005, 12:47 PM
Yes, but Bo wasn't a #1 and #2 option the entire time, and he wasn't a #1 draft pick.

We already know that Fred-ex sucks. I'm rooting for Bo and hope that DV gives him a fair chance...which I doubt.

If Freddy is really the best option at #3WR then fine....but I doubt it.

We KNOW he sucks? Kinda like we knew Priest Holmes sucked? Or Lionel Dalton?

The guy has played for one team, with one QB. Not only that, but SEVERAL people besides Freddie have reported that said QB is hard to get along with.

Sometimes guys need the right situation.

jspchief
08-03-2005, 12:49 PM
Fraud-ex has 5 td catches.....for his career....Bo has [insert answer here]....I'm rooting for Bo.

Fradu-ex has averaged 22 catches a year.Fred-ex has 4 TDs in the last two years, Boe has zero. Boe has averaged 15 catches per year

I'm rooting for Boe also. I think we need his size, and I like the guy.

But Sidewinder's arguement for why Mitchell was a likely cut was his lack of production. I was simply pointing out that the guys that are in line for that roster spot certainly haven't been any more productive.

I'm sure a search will show I was dead set against getting Mitchell. But now that he's here, I have to recognize that he's as (if not more) likely to be a contributor, when measured against our other depth WRs.

milkman
08-03-2005, 12:50 PM
Talk about dumbass statements.... I think a cliche about glass houses would fit nicely here.

I'm guessing you really have no idea how many big plays Mitchell has made in his career. Just because you can only think of one, doesn't mean that's the only one. Over two-thirds of his career catches have been for first downs.

While he may not be a superstar, I think the point being made was that he has a hell of a lot more experience than the guys you seem to think will replace him.

How many big plays does Richard Smith have? Horn? Boe? Parker?

A lot of receivers make catches to get teams first downs,

Seems like Horn had a big first down catch last year.
So did Parker.
Boe had how many TDs in his rookie season.

If you want to use first down catches as a marker of big plays, then I'll give you that the Clown has made more than one big play.

But the fact that he has never produced at a consistent or high level should eliminate the idea that he's a lock to make the team.

He should have to compete for a roster spot, just like any other bust or 1st or 2nd year player that hasn't proven jack yet.

And jack is exactly what this clown has proven.

J Diddy
08-03-2005, 12:55 PM
A lot of receivers make catches to get teams first downs,

Seems like Horn had a big first down catch last year.
So did Parker.
Boe had how many TDs in his rookie season.

If you want to use first down catches as a marker of big plays, then I'll give you that the Clown has made more than one big play.

But the fact that he has never produced at a consistent or high level should eliminate the idea that he's a lock to make the team.

He should have to compete for a roster spot, just like any other bust or 1st or 2nd year player that hasn't proven jack yet.

And jack is exactly what this clown has proven.

How do you know if that's all he's proven? He must have shown something here for vermeil to make that statement.

jspchief
08-03-2005, 12:55 PM
Yes, but Bo wasn't a #1 and #2 option the entire time, and he wasn't a #1 draft pick.

We already know that Fred-ex sucks. I'm rooting for Bo and hope that DV gives him a fair chance...which I doubt.

If Freddy is really the best option at #3WR then fine....but I doubt it.Mitchell has never or rarely been a #1 or #2. He's always been in the slot.

How quickly we forget how bad Boerigter sucked in '03. So far, the guy is nothing more than an 8 game wonder that would have crappy stats if it weren't for two plays.

Personally, I hope they both make the team. What I don't get is the way people cling to career practice squad guys like Horn and Smith.

Big Chief Homer
08-03-2005, 01:00 PM
But the fact that he has never produced at a consistent or high level should eliminate the idea that he's a lock to make the team.

He should have to compete for a roster spot, just like any other bust or 1st or 2nd year player that hasn't proven jack yet.

And jack is exactly what this clown has proven.




Two words for you.........


TRENT GREEN

Chief Faithful
08-03-2005, 01:00 PM
We already know that Fred-ex sucks.

I don't know that. He is a young talented player they might turn the corner in KC. If not, then I'll know he sucks because if he can't turn the career around in KC I doubt he can do it anywhere.

Any way it goes I don't see him knocking another WR off the roster that is any better. I'm excited to see what he can do.

milkman
08-03-2005, 01:01 PM
How do you know if that's all he's proven? He must have shown something here for vermeil to make that statement.

Just like Bartee in previous camps.

htismaqe
08-03-2005, 01:02 PM
I don't know that. He is a young talented player they might turn the corner in KC. If not, then I'll know he sucks because if he can't turn the career around in KC I doubt he can do it anywhere.

Any way it goes I don't see him knocking another WR off the roster that is any better. I'm excited to see what he can do.

That's exactly it for me.

The guys he's potentially beating out are scrubs AT BEST.

He won't beat out Eddie Kennison or Sammie Parker. He likely won't beat out Boerigter.

The people that stand to lose a roster spot because of Freddie Mitchell are guys that struggled to make the roster BEFORE Mitchell got here.

milkman
08-03-2005, 01:04 PM
Two words for you.........


TRENT GREEN

Two words for you.....................


Chester McGlockton

jspchief
08-03-2005, 01:04 PM
Just like Bartee in previous camps.Difference being, Vermeil tends to get it right when it comes to offense.

J Diddy
08-03-2005, 01:05 PM
Just like Bartee in previous camps.

Different side of the ball, do you think vermeil would let anything happen to his precious offense?

J Diddy
08-03-2005, 01:06 PM
Two words for you.....................


Chester McGlockton


Two words for you........


Huh?
Huh?

htismaqe
08-03-2005, 01:08 PM
Where was all the faux outrage last year, when all of these scrubs were left off the roster in favor of JOHNNIE ****ING MORTON?

J Diddy
08-03-2005, 01:11 PM
Where was all the faux outrage last year, when all of these scrubs were left off the roster in favor of JOHNNIE ****ING MORTON?

We still had Johnnie Johnson, we were alright.

the Talking Can
08-03-2005, 01:11 PM
We KNOW he sucks? Kinda like we knew Priest Holmes sucked? Or Lionel Dalton?

The guy has played for one team, with one QB. Not only that, but SEVERAL people besides Freddie have reported that said QB is hard to get along with.

Sometimes guys need the right situation.

Holmes ran for a 1000 yards with the Ravens.

I'm rooting for Bo.

patteeu
08-03-2005, 01:12 PM
And exactly how many catches did First Clown have in that SB?

IIRC, more than the other Chiefs WRs have had in any SB... combined.

the Talking Can
08-03-2005, 01:13 PM
Where was all the faux outrage last year, when all of these scrubs were left off the roster in favor of JOHNNIE ****ING MORTON?

uh...everyone hated Morton but DV wouldn't cut him....hmmm, starting to sound a lot like Fred-ex....

htismaqe
08-03-2005, 01:13 PM
Holmes ran for a 1000 yards with the Ravens.

I'm rooting for Bo.

And yet there was a very vocal contingent here saying he was nothing more than a 3rd-down back. They told everyone that 3/4 of that 1000 yards came against the Bengals.

Nobody said there's anything wrong with rooting for Bo. But proclaiming another player to be a bust before he's ever stepped on the field, especially when he was a 1st-round draft pick we got for FREE, is just plain foolhardy.

htismaqe
08-03-2005, 01:14 PM
uh...everyone hated Morton but DV wouldn't cut him....hmmm, starting to sound a lot like Fred-ex....

Why the **** would you hate Freddie Mitchell? Because he ran his mouth?

Some of this shit is the dumbest shit I've ever read.

J Diddy
08-03-2005, 01:15 PM
IIRC, more than the other Chiefs WRs have had in any SB... combined.


Sad but very true....

J Diddy
08-03-2005, 01:15 PM
Why the **** would you hate Freddie Mitchell? Because he ran his mouth?

Some of this shit is the dumbest shit I've ever read.


I agree.

the Talking Can
08-03-2005, 01:16 PM
Why the **** would you hate Freddie Mitchell? Because he ran his mouth?

Some of this shit is the dumbest shit I've ever read.

I don't like him because he sucks.

It's funny watching you feak out on every thread.

I'm rooting for Bo. Why does that makes you feel so righteous?

At least you aren't capitalize any words....yet.

jspchief
08-03-2005, 01:18 PM
Why the **** would you hate Freddie Mitchell? Because he ran his mouth?

Some of this shit is the dumbest shit I've ever read.It kind of reminds me of Eddie Kennison when we brought him in.

Why root against the guy? We'll be much better off if he finally lives up to his potential.

milkman
08-03-2005, 01:19 PM
Two words for you........


Huh?
Huh?

BigChiefHomer gave me an example of a player that had never produced consistently before joining the Chiefs in Trent Green.

I gave him an example of a player that The Clown more closely resembles, IMO, in Chet.

While Chet did have a couple of good seasons before joining the Chiefs, he was really a career underachiever, who continued to underachieve as a Chief.

Freddie Mitchell is a first round bust, so far.
A career underachiever.

He may come in here and turn his career around, and, believe me, that would make me ecstatic.

But the fact is that all he's proven to this point in his career is that he wasn't worth the first round pick, and that he has diarhea of the mouth.

He's managed, thus far in KC, to get the DOM under control.
But he hasn't yet proven jack on the field, and until he does, he should in no way, be considered a lock to make the team.

Not by you, not by me, and most certainly, not by Dick.

htismaqe
08-03-2005, 01:20 PM
I don't like him because he sucks.

It's funny watching you feak out on every thread.

I'm rooting for Bo. Why does that makes you feel so righteous?

At least you aren't capitalize any words....yet.

That's an interesting proclamation. One that I've heard many times before. I'm glad we have professional scouts here to tell us such things.

It's funny that you think I'm freaking out. You obviously have no clue. I don't feel righteous at all. I just find it both funny and pathetic that you'd write off someone before they've ever played a down.

Thank God NFL teams and particularly the Chiefs don't do that. We'd not only be worried about who was going to fill the #2 and #3 WR spots but also the #1 WR because Eddie Kennison because he wouldn't exist.

J Diddy
08-03-2005, 01:20 PM
I don't like him because he sucks.



I hope there is a time when you eat those words.

patteeu
08-03-2005, 01:23 PM
Holmes ran for a 1000 yards with the Ravens.

I'm rooting for Bo.

Holmes averaged approx. 40 ypg in 14 games that season. I'm rooting for the best WRs to make the team. Right now, I suspect that includes Fredex and I hope, but I'm not confident, that it includes Bo.

Thig Lyfe
08-03-2005, 01:25 PM
FredEx pwns!

http://www.footballscans.com/freddiemitchell.jpg

htismaqe
08-03-2005, 01:26 PM
BigChiefHomer gave me an example of a player that had never produced consistently before joining the Chiefs in Trent Green.

I gave him an example of a player that The Clown more closely resembles, IMO, in Chet.

While Chet did have a couple of good seasons before joining the Chiefs, he was really a career underachiever, who continued to underachieve as a Chief.

Freddie Mitchell is a first round bust, so far.
A career underachiever.

He may come in here and turn his career around, and, believe me, that would make me ecstatic.

But the fact is that all he's proven to this point in his career is that he wasn't worth the first round pick, and that he has diarhea of the mouth.

He's managed, thus far in KC, to get the DOM under control.
But he hasn't yet proven jack on the field, and until he does, he should in no way, be considered a lock to make the team.

Not by you, not by me, and most certainly, not by Dick.

I don't at all disagree with anything you've said here.

The only thing I will say is that I think people are reading WAY TOO MUCH into this. When have we EVER been able to trust what comes out of Vermeil's mouth this time of year?

I'm sure that Vermeil, if he didn't have a problem with talking out of his ass, would have simply said "Freddie is AHEAD of the other guys because of his experience". Instead we got "he's a lock to make the team."

Fault Vermeil, not Mitchell.

the Talking Can
08-03-2005, 01:26 PM
That's an interesting proclamation. One that I've heard many times before. I'm glad we have professional scouts here to tell us such things.

It's funny that you think I'm freaking out. You obviously have no clue. I don't feel righteous at all. I just find it both funny and pathetic that you'd write off someone before they've ever played a down.

Thank God NFL teams and particularly the Chiefs don't do that. We'd not only be worried about who was going to fill the #2 and #3 WR spots but also the #1 WR because Eddie Kennison because he wouldn't exist.

Listen to yourself.

I'm rooting for Bo.

Every piece of data we have (you like stats, right?) is evidence that Fred-ex sucks.

You disagree. Fine. But chill out.

You don't need to capitalize words. You don't need to claim "its the dumbest thing ever" etc. You don't need to bother with absurd, hyperbolic analogies like the one above.

By the way, compare Kennison's stats before coming to the Chiefs and Fred-ex's....then maybe you'll understand "the dumbest thing ever."

Get a grip.

You can just accept the difference of opinion.

milkman
08-03-2005, 01:27 PM
That's an interesting proclamation. One that I've heard many times before. I'm glad we have professional scouts here to tell us such things.

It's funny that you think I'm freaking out. You obviously have no clue. I don't feel righteous at all. I just find it both funny and pathetic that you'd write off someone before they've ever played a down.

Thank God NFL teams and particularly the Chiefs don't do that. We'd not only be worried about who was going to fill the #2 and #3 WR spots but also the #1 WR because Eddie Kennison because he wouldn't exist.

Actually, Eddie is a great example of what I hope will happen with The Clown.

You guys may think I'm a Freddie hater, but I'm not.

I was a fan of The Clown coming out of college, and am disapointed in his career to this point.

But if he can turn it around, then I will love it.

But I'm cynical.

I think if we were to research it, we'd find more examples of busts that continued to be busts after a change of scenery, than busts that turned their careers around.

milkman
08-03-2005, 01:30 PM
I don't at all disagree with anything you've said here.

The only thing I will say is that I think people are reading WAY TOO MUCH into this. When have we EVER been able to trust what comes out of Vermeil's mouth this time of year?

I'm sure that Vermeil, if he didn't have a problem with talking out of his ass, would have simply said "Freddie is AHEAD of the other guys because of his experience". Instead we got "he's a lock to make the team."

Fault Vermeil, not Mitchell.

That's exactly what I did.
That's how this whole thing started.

First, when exactly did First Clown Freddie establish himself?
I musta missed that day.

Second, how can Dick just dismiss the idea that any of the young guys will win a job over First Clown Freddie?

This, IMO, is just another example of a senile old fart making a dumbass statement.

htismaqe
08-03-2005, 01:38 PM
Listen to yourself.

I'm rooting for Bo.

Every piece of data we have (you like stats, right?) is evidence that Fred-ex sucks.

You disagree. Fine. But chill out.

You don't need to capitalize words. You don't need to claim "its the dumbest thing ever" etc. You don't need to bother with absurd, hyperbolic analogies like the one above.

By the way, compare Kennison's stats before coming to the Chiefs and Fred-ex's....then maybe you'll understand "the dumbest thing ever."

Get a grip.

You can just accept the difference of opinion.

What are you talking about? Did you selectively ignore the part where I said "there's nothing wrong with rooting for Bo"? I don't care if you're rooting for Bo. Actually, I'm rooting for Bo.

Where we differ is that I'm also rooting for Mitchell, while you've already written him off.

I like stats, but more importantly I like evidence with context and corroboration. Like the fact that several people, including Mitchell, have said that Donovan McNabb is hard to get along with. Perhaps that has something to do with both his lack of production and his attitude? Perhaps it doesn't. But the fact that it's been reported by multiple people gives it both context and corroboration. It's worth noting.

We have stats that show the Freddie has underperformed compared to where he was drafted. But we also know that he's done that with only one team. He's the same as Eddie Kennison, except that Kennison's situation was actually worse in that he'd underperformed for multiple teams. My analogy was neither absurd, nor hyperbole, unless you're intent on believing that Mitchell sucks prior to giving the guy a chance.

I capitalize words for emphasis, not because I'm excited. I've used italics instead, I hope that pleases you. I'm chill and I have a grip. You're manufacturing a condition that doesn't exist.

htismaqe
08-03-2005, 01:40 PM
Actually, Eddie is a great example of what I hope will happen with The Clown.

You guys may think I'm a Freddie hater, but I'm not.

I was a fan of The Clown coming out of college, and am disapointed in his career to this point.

But if he can turn it around, then I will love it.

But I'm cynical.

I think if we were to research it, we'd find more examples of busts that continued to be busts after a change of scenery, than busts that turned their careers around.

My point is:

What have we got to lose? The guy is a former 1st-round draft pick who was a premiere playmaker in college. He cost us nothing and would cost us nothing if we cut him.

The only thing we have to lose is the roster spot that otherwise would have been occupied by any one of the scrubs that were listed previously.

milkman
08-03-2005, 06:06 PM
My point is:

What have we got to lose? The guy is a former 1st-round draft pick who was a premiere playmaker in college. He cost us nothing and would cost us nothing if we cut him.

The only thing we have to lose is the roster spot that otherwise would have been occupied by any one of the scrubs that were listed previously.

And my point is, Dick needs to shut the **** up.
He needs to let the competition play out in TC and PC before he declares that Mitchell will make the roster, unless he's decided already that The Clown has won a spot.

Unless of course he's already made up his mind, and isn't going to allow any competition.

Tuckdaddy
08-03-2005, 06:31 PM
GOOD! He's young and full of talent. I think he will be good for us.

Wile_E_Coyote
08-03-2005, 06:35 PM
Mitchell signed a 1 year deal with no signing bonus. Looks like he is skipping surgery to try & keep the one job offer he got. DV & his comments, who knows

Big Chief Homer
08-03-2005, 06:55 PM
I personally would rather know that the guy with more than 4 games of experience and with 3 years of playoff experience including the superbowl has a roster spot.Let the rest of them battle it out.

Keep

Kennison
mitchell
parker
BO
thorpe
and possibly horn as well

Hall as PR/KR

The 1st 4 have experience as little or as bad as it may be.Crapho will be poached off the practice squad.

let the rest fight it out.for horns spot.

In mitchells defense,you cant catch the ball if the QB refuses to throw it to you.

htismaqe
08-03-2005, 07:10 PM
And my point is, Dick needs to shut the **** up.
He needs to let the competition play out in TC and PC before he declares that Mitchell will make the roster, unless he's decided already that The Clown has won a spot.

Unless of course he's already made up his mind, and isn't going to allow any competition.

It's just like this message board. Instead of trying to shut up someone as stubborn as Denise, just ignore her.

Instead of trying to shut up someone as stubborn as Dick, just ignore him.

It doesn't matter what he said, we all know from past experience that nothing he says now means jack shit.

milkman
08-03-2005, 07:13 PM
It's just like this message board. Instead of trying to shut up someone as stubborn as Denise, just ignore her.

Instead of trying to shut up someone as stubborn as Dick, just ignore him.

It doesn't matter what he said, we all know from past experience that nothing he says now means jack shit.

I know.
I know.

But sometimes I just gotta say;

"SHUT the **** up, Dick!"

for my own personal edification.

htismaqe
08-03-2005, 07:16 PM
I know.
I know.

But sometimes I just gotta say;

"SHUT the **** up, Dick!"

for my own personal edification.

Oh, believe me. He pisses me off alot too. But I'm learning slowly to let it roll. :D

StcChief
08-03-2005, 08:23 PM
Mitchell will be on the team. He too good as an NFL reciever compared to the 1st-2nd year players.

We can't look past that, hope he has a great year.

As I said 'It would be like stealin' Iggles 1st rounder.'

Logical
08-03-2005, 09:55 PM
I didnt see a post on this yet.

I was reading through some of the press coverage and theres a blurb in the july 31st morning interview where DV states Freddie will be on the team Injury or not.Thats the way i took it anyhow.

Qustion:Is that a set back for him(freddie) because he's new?

DV:It never helps to get hurt...It never helps,but I think that applies more to guys who are struggling to make the football team,than to someone who has already established himself AND WHO YOU KNOW IS GOING TO BE HERE.We wont hold it against him.


Sounds to me like Fred is already set on the 53 man roster unless his injury put him on the PUP.

BCHDamn DV pisses me off sometimes. :cuss:

Logical
08-03-2005, 10:04 PM
That's exactly it for me.

The guys he's potentially beating out are scrubs AT BEST.

He won't beat out Eddie Kennison or Sammie Parker. He likely won't beat out Boerigter.

The people that stand to lose a roster spot because of Freddie Mitchell are guys that struggled to make the roster BEFORE Mitchell got here.Whether it is true or not might be debatable but that is not even the point.

The point is why kill competition, why just f*cking hand the job to someone. Isn't this the same dumbass DV who said the only prospect for CB we were pursuing in 2004 would have to earn a spot on the team when we were trying to get him to sign? Why is this different?

Chiefs Pantalones
08-03-2005, 10:08 PM
Will his knee heal like it's supposed to without surgery? Is he taking a big risk?

TRR
08-03-2005, 10:08 PM
Whether it is true or not might be debatable but that is not even the point.

The point is why kill competition, why just f*cking hand the job to someone. Isn't this the same dumbass DV who said the only prospect for CB we were pursuing in 2004 would have to earn a spot on the team when we were trying to get him to sign? Why is this different?

If DV and Saunders think Mitchell deserves a roster spot, than I will take their word for it. They forgot more about the game of football than all of us know put together.

Logical
08-03-2005, 10:14 PM
If DV and Saunders think Mitchell deserves a roster spot, than I will take their word for it. They forgot more about the game of football than all of us know put together.OH yeah I forgot DV never makes a mistake. That is why we had Robinson for so long and we have never gotten rid of Guinta. It is why we have such luminaries as Hicks and Bartee we cannot get rid of due to contract consequences. Yep ol Dicky boy never makes a mistake.:shake::rolleyes:

Nice try in parlaying Saunders into the discussion since he did not make the idiotic statement about Mitchell.

Chiefs Pantalones
08-03-2005, 10:35 PM
Will his knee heal like it's supposed to without surgery? Is he taking a big risk?

Anyone?

philfree
08-03-2005, 10:58 PM
Whether it is true or not might be debatable but that is not even the point.

The point is why kill competition, why just f*cking hand the job to someone. Isn't this the same dumbass DV who said the only prospect for CB we were pursuing in 2004 would have to earn a spot on the team when we were trying to get him to sign? Why is this different?


I don't think that one statement is gonna kill the competition. Mitchell has some good experience. Lot's of post season.

PhilFree:arrow:

picasso
08-03-2005, 11:46 PM
A lot of receivers make catches to get teams first downs,

Seems like Horn had a big first down catch last year.
So did Parker.
Boe had how many TDs in his rookie season.

If you want to use first down catches as a marker of big plays, then I'll give you that the Clown has made more than one big play.

But the fact that he has never produced at a consistent or high level should eliminate the idea that he's a lock to make the team.

He should have to compete for a roster spot, just like any other bust or 1st or 2nd year player that hasn't proven jack yet.

And jack is exactly what this clown has proven.

Can I ask WHY you have so much hatred for the guy?

He was in competition for the ball from T.O. until T.O. got hurt and Freddie started catching balls and winning games in Philly. That is why he made his promise that they were gonna win the Superbowl. BUT T.O. CAME BACK!!!! THAT IS WHY HE DIDN'T CATCH ANYTHING!!!
He never got the ball. :shake:

Logical
08-04-2005, 12:15 AM
Anyone?Only a Doctor who had seen the MRI could know if it is a big risk. It is a risk.

Wallcrawler
08-04-2005, 03:35 AM
I really dont get all the hatred for Freddie Mitchell, especially the lovely schoolyard level of "I dont like him because he sucks." That's just brilliant. Mind blowing even. How could I have ever wondered why anyone could have a problem with Freddie Mitchell after an explanation like that?


Lets look at a few things here.


First off, in the offense that the Eagles run, Freddie Mitchell isnt on the field every down. When youre not on the field every down, that is going to limit your production severely. Even guys who are on the field every down dont see the football every play.

Secondly, Donovan McNabb is NOT the best passing QB in the world. This is more of a happy footed fullback with a cannon for an arm who looks to his primary receiver, then his secondary, and then goes to make the play with his feet. Perhaps if Donovan were a better pocket passer, he would be more inclined to buy some time and actually read the entire field, and he might find a guy like Freddie Mitchell open and get him the ball instead of tucking and running the ball. McNabb also has the tendency to hang his receivers out to dry with his overthrows, as he isnt the most accurate of passers. Not to take anything away from McNabb, he did reach the NFC title game 3 years straight and then the Superbowl with his style of play, but I think that Freddie Mitchell being the third option on that team with a QB that usually looks at a couple guys and then takes off is getting a bum rap. I think that with Trent Green under the center and reading the field, if Mitchell is open, Green will not only give him a chance to catch the ball, but will deliver it in a position where he wont have to worry about getting his ribcage crushed or his head taken off with a high pass.


Third, anyone who thinks that Freddie Mitchell hasnt made big plays obviously hasnt watched too many Eagles playoff games. Everyone knows about 4th and 26 against the Packers, and regardless of whatever mistake the Pack made, that was a HUGE play. You think about that for a moment. Playoffs. Your ENTIRE SEASON rests on this play, 4th down and 26. If Mitchell wouldnt have come through, noone would have held it against him, its not like anyone expected that play to ever happen. But he didnt choke, he showed excellent awareness and clutch ability and made the play to keep their season alive. Call it what you want, but that in my book, is a HUGE play. In the game against the Vikings, Freddie Mitchell was all over the place making catches for first downs, touchdowns, and recovering a fumble that was punched out of the HB's hands into the air, and taking it in for a TD. He showed playmaking ability in the most clutch of situations. To me, when you can make plays like that, its hard to justify saying that the guy sucks.


If you look at Mitchell's numbers, an insanely high percentage of his receptions are for first downs. And this one goes out to Sidewinder....How is a catch for a first down NOT a big play? I seem to remember Johnnie Morton dropping a wide open pass in the playoff game against the Colts that would have been a first down....but instead we end up punting the ball away. I fail to realise how you rationalize a catch that keeps your offense on the field for a fresh set of downs is not considered a big play, considering that the alternative is you have to give the ball to the other team. Catches on third down that keep the drive going are HUGE plays. Especially with the way that Vermiel/Saunders seem to love to cast Holmes and the running game to the wayside even on third and short in lieu of a pass, I would say that adding a guy to our roster who the biggest percentage of his receptions are for first downs is quite a good addition to the offense. But thats just me....take that for whatever its worth.




Basicly my view of Freddie Mitchell is that he's gotten a bad rap. People who call him a clown, or a mouth are usually going by things that they have read that he supposedly said. If you hear the guy say most of what he says, you can see how it was meant to be taken. Simply reading it, the original intent is lost, and people get the wrong idea. Thats not to say he's never said anything completely boneheaded, but anyone who tries to hold putting his foot in his mouth against him is simply the pot calling the kettle black. We've all done it, its just that because of his status, his mistakes are seen by more people and scrutinized to no end. It seems everyone but McNabb liked the guy, and he wasnt cut from Philly because of character issues that so many detractors here love to talk about. If a wideout being frustrated that he isnt getting the ball thrown his way is a bad attitude, then 99.9% of the NFL Receivers are of bad character. Everything Ive seen said of him from Philadelphia is that he's a good guy, a team player, and will block his ass off in the running game.

I think in Philly, he was not being used to the best of his ability in that offense. Not getting along with the QB cant help matters any. And its not like he was getting passes delivered from Peyton Manning. McNabb is hardly a premiere passer. I think that in this offense with Trent Green running things on the field, Freddie Mitchell will have plenty of chances to make plays. From what I saw in those playoff games, when given the chance, he delivered.


But, if you'd like, you can go on claiming that he's a clown, or that he sucks, or that the Chiefs are fools for signing him. In regard to the offensive side of the ball, I think Im able to take Vermiel/Saunders' word on the talent level of a player. This is a new start for Mitchell, and perhaps in a more pass oriented offense with a QB that is CAPABLE of spreading the football around, Mitchell can play up to the ability he had coming out of college, and end up being a huge asset to the team. Or he could end up failing again and I eat my words on the subject,but I think its pretty foolish and arrogant however, to simply write him off before he's even played a single game in Red&Gold.

Mecca
08-04-2005, 08:21 AM
Mitchell has never or rarely been a #1 or #2. He's always been in the slot.

How quickly we forget how bad Boerigter sucked in '03. So far, the guy is nothing more than an 8 game wonder that would have crappy stats if it weren't for two plays.

Personally, I hope they both make the team. What I don't get is the way people cling to career practice squad guys like Horn and Smith.


I've been trying to figure that one out for awhile now. What is up with the Chris Horn, Richard Smith are better than Freddie Mitchell crowd. I'd much rather have Mitchell than those guys that's for sure.

My opinion is if Boerigter is on this team, Horn and Smith shouldn't be.

htismaqe
08-04-2005, 08:56 AM
Whether it is true or not might be debatable but that is not even the point.

The point is why kill competition, why just f*cking hand the job to someone. Isn't this the same dumbass DV who said the only prospect for CB we were pursuing in 2004 would have to earn a spot on the team when we were trying to get him to sign? Why is this different?

This is WAY different.

In one case, you're telling a guy who MIGHT sign with the team that he has to compete with a complete scrub. Color him offended. He's gone to another team.

In this case, you're telling the media that a certain guy ALREADY ON THE TEAM is a lock to make the team. You're telling everybody else trying to get a spot at that position that they need to work harder.

Not at all, even close, to being the same.

ROYC75
08-04-2005, 09:14 AM
You people better get over this quick....... FredEx will be on the teams roster at camp break.

yoswif
08-04-2005, 11:01 AM
As long as Mitchell shows in training camp that he's not the same first round bust he was in Philly, he deserves a roster spot just as much as Parker, Bo, Thorpe, and Smith. Until Mitchell shows in training camp that he's not a first round bust, I'll consider him a first round bust.

Brock
08-04-2005, 11:32 AM
McNabb is hardly a premiere passer.

I think 31 TDs vs. 8 INTs and 64 percent comp % says different.

whoman69
08-04-2005, 05:23 PM
Smith had a major case of the jitters in the early games when he played. I'm not sure he is really in the mix. Frankly I will be worried about the receivers if FredEx is good enough to make this team, because I don't even think that at a #3 receiver he has much talent. I think we can find 5 guys out there from what we have better than him, especially if Boe can come back. Horn has great hands, something we have lacked greatly.

Rausch
08-04-2005, 05:27 PM
I think 31 TDs vs. 8 INTs and 64 percent comp % says different.

Short of winning a super bowl I don't know WTF Donovan has to do to get recognized.

I still have no idea why people rank him lower than Crotchpepper...

Chiefs Pantalones
08-04-2005, 05:51 PM
I think Crotchpepper (ROFL) had 39tds and 11ints, mostly without Moss. Both are good QBs, and I really can't see any difference between the two other than McNabb has taken his team to the Super Bowl and Crotchpepper hasn't.

keg in kc
08-04-2005, 05:59 PM
I really can't see any difference between the two other than McNabb has taken his team to the Super Bowl and Crotchpepper hasn't.The difference is that McNabb has been fortunate enough to be on a squad with a strong defense. They're both good QBs.

Chiefs Pantalones
08-04-2005, 06:07 PM
The difference is that McNabb has been fortunate enough to be on a squad with a strong defense. They're both good QBs.

That's kind of the same thing.

Going to the Super Bowl goes along with having a strong defense. :)

keg in kc
08-04-2005, 06:11 PM
That was the whole point.

Chiefs Pantalones
08-04-2005, 06:22 PM
That was the whole point.

I know. I said basically the same thing you said, I figured the "defense is what matters" was pretty self-explanatory as to why the Vikings haven't gotten as far as the Eagles. :shrug:

htismaqe
08-04-2005, 06:42 PM
My thing with McNabb and Mitchell has nothing to do with McNabb's talent. He's a great QB.

He's also had trouble, reportedly, getting along with MULTIPLE people, not just Freddie.

milkman
08-04-2005, 09:00 PM
Can I ask WHY you have so much hatred for the guy?

He was in competition for the ball from T.O. until T.O. got hurt and Freddie started catching balls and winning games in Philly. That is why he made his promise that they were gonna win the Superbowl. BUT T.O. CAME BACK!!!! THAT IS WHY HE DIDN'T CATCH ANYTHING!!!
He never got the ball. :shake:

This isn't hatred of Freddie.

I've said it more than once on here, I was a fan of Freddie's coming out of college, so much so that I was hoping that the Chiefs would get a chance to draft him.

What I'm saying is that, while he has made some plays, he hasn't performed on a consistent level since he came into the NFL, whether his fault or McNabb's.

My problem isn't with Freddie so much as it is with Dick saying essentially that he is going to be on the roster.

Maybe Smith, Horn, Boe, etc. are all nothing but scrubs.

But, dammit Dick, don't eliminate the competition for a spot.

I want Freddie to feel like he has to work his ass off to earn the job.

If he does, great. Maybe the combination of Al's imagination, Charlie Joiner's coaching, and Trent's command of the offense, will all finally help Freddie to realize his untapped potential.

htismaqe
08-04-2005, 09:47 PM
This isn't hatred of Freddie.

I've said it more than once on here, I was a fan of Freddie's coming out of college, so much so that I was hoping that the Chiefs would get a chance to draft him.

What I'm saying is that, while he has made some plays, he hasn't performed on a consistent level since he came into the NFL, whether his fault or McNabb's.

My problem isn't with Freddie so much as it is with Dick saying essentially that he is going to be on the roster.

Maybe Smith, Horn, Boe, etc. are all nothing but scrubs.

But, dammit Dick, don't eliminate the competition for a spot.

I want Freddie to feel like he has to work his ass off to earn the job.

If he does, great. Maybe the combination of Al's imagination, Charlie Joiner's coaching, and Trent's command of the offense, will all finally help Freddie to realize his untapped potential.

I'm quite certain that no matter what Vermeil tells us, Freddie feels like he has to work his ass off to earn a job.

keg in kc
08-04-2005, 09:48 PM
I'm quite certain that no matter what Vermeil tells us, Freddie feels like he has to work his ass off to earn a job.I'm quite certain that no matter what Vermeil tells us, people are competing for jobs, too.