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htismaqe
08-01-2005, 07:23 AM
8/18 Update posted by htismaqe
Hinted (like he hinted Monday about Tynes' arrest) that Todd Collins was in trouble. More to come later today from the St. Paul Pioneer Press.

Vermeil appeared to have Tynes' back, but he was visibly upset with the kicker at other times. Still thinks competition will be brought in.

Surtain has been the star of camp. Said even though the guy is a top NFL CB, he approached camp like he was fighting for the 53rd spot on the roster. Great player and great example. Derrick Johnson is legit and has the chance to be up there with DT, Lanier, and Bell.

On the offensive side, talked alot about LJ and the o-line, and how stellar Roaf and Waters have been.

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8/16 Update posted by jspchief
Talked about Gunther on the rampage.

Morning practice, he tore Grigsby a new asshole for mistakes lining up.

Afternoon practice, he told Alphonso Hodge that he can find 100,000 people to do the job as good as he is, and that he fired the last player that played like that. Apparently Hodge talked back to him at that point, which can't be good for your lifespan.

Coaches that win a superbowl with one team have never won one with the next team.

Vermeil is frustrated with all the man hours missed. Is tired of guys sitting out for every little nick.

Some scrub from ISU quit the team.

Talked a bit about Bell, but didn't say anything that hasn't been in the other threads. Practicing in pads, but not hitting.

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8/15 Update posted by htismaqe
The news is not good boys.

The Chiefs gave up 8 plays over 15 yards. Gunther is beyond furious, Mitch said he was "beside himself". Jared Allen has been demoted, Jimmy Wilkerson is now starting.

Kevin Sampson has a toe tendon problem, out 2-3 weeks. Todd Collins has a possible fracture, out 2-3 weeks. Holcombe will be out 6 weeks.

He said Lawrence Tynes had a bad weekend "on and off the field". When asked to elaborate about the "off the field" comment, he hemmed and hawed and never did answer. Tynes must have gotten drunk too. Anyway, he said there will likely be competition brought into camp. The good news is that Tynes didn't miss a kick yesterday.

Will Shields participated in workouts and could see full practice later this week, so that's at least one good thing.
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8/12 Update posted by htismaqe
Talked about the game. Starters will play slightly more than 1 quarter, except for Priest, LJ, Green, Gonzo. They will likely play only a couple of series'. Shields won't play. Bell won't play. Dunn is out.

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8/11 Update posted by htismaqe
Not much today. Priest and Tony were "dancing like spring chickens" last night so that was good news.

Talked mostly about the defense and the need to create turnovers. Forget yards, the defense last year had only 21 takeaways (franchise record) and 85 plays of longer than 20 yards (NFL average is 55).

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8/10 Update posted by htismaqe
Talked about the WR's. Said, after Kennison, there isn't anybody that stands out. They're all the same. Talked a bit about Booth and McIntyre and their stints in NFLE. Said Freddie is still out, he tried to talk to him last night and Freddie just kinda grumbled and groaned and kept walking. Said that everybody at the position (WR) could be a 1-2 catch guy to compliment Holmes, Gonzo, and WILSON. Yes, he mentioned Wilson in the same breath as Holmes and Gonzales. Said the team will likely keep only 5 maybe 6 WR's.

He said the team is much healthier already. Both Priest and Gonzo were back last night and looking better. Not sure about LJ.

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8/9 Update posted by htismaqe
Concerned about special teams because of loss of Blaylock and Beisel. Said Boomer or Scanlon is going to have to step up. The good news is that Benny Sapp is turning into a monster on special teams.

Also concerned about reps on Friday vs. the Vikings. Gonzo is better, wasn't limping much last night, but he won't play. Dunn won't play. Priest probably won't play. Larry Johnson is now dinged up, minor, but might not play.

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8/8 Update posted by htismaqe
Very concerned about Tony's foot. He was limping pretty bad all weekend. Seemed concerned about Jason Dunn too.

Greg Wesley looks like he's out to prove that he's still a hitter. Layed a hit on Priest like you wouldn't believe. Derrick Johnson also looks like he's on a mission to let everyone know he's not afraid of contact like the draftniks said.

Talked again about Gunther unleashed, about the fights, and about the defense's passion.

Finally he said there's going to be a couple of games where the defense and LJ have to carry this team.

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8/5 Update posted by htismaqe
Was asked about Priest's concussion. Said the defense has been unleashed by Gunther, tired of being picked on. In goal line drills (when Priest got hurt) the defense stuffed them EVERY time except...

When Larry Johnson carried the ball. He was just too strong and drug people into the end zone. Easily the offensive MVP of camp so far.

Was asked about the fighting and if it was desired. Said "NO QUESTION" emphatically. Said the intensity is way up, especially on defense, and it's been missing for far too long. Vermeil has asked Gunther to go balls to the wall this year, leave it all on the field.

Said Bo is silently having a good camp and that he separates himself easily from the other WR's because he's 1) 4 inches taller and 2) a key to our ST's.

That's about all I can remember.

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8/4 Update posted by jspchief
Talking LBs mostly.

Said he doesn't think Woods or Fujita make the team, barring a string of injuries at either position.

That's about it. Short interview. Told interesting story about hot Svitek got to America.

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8/3 Update posted by htismaqe
Anyway, he did clarify or expound on a couple of his statements from previous interviews:

1) We have to get off to a good start this year. Yesterday, it was about the assistants looking for other jobs. Today it was the danger that a poor start would cause everybody -- players, coaches, and fans -- knowing that this is Vermeil's last year, to start discussing who the next coach would be instead of worrying about this season. I think from the brew-ha-ha yesterday we had on the very subject, despite the fact that the season hasn't even started, shows that he's probably right.

2) Ferentz being mentioned as a HC candidate. Bob Stoops would be in there too.

The only thing of substance that he talked about was YET ANOTHER back injury, this time to Jason Dunn.

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8/2 Update posted by htismaqe
Dexter McCleon IS the starter opposite Surtain. Not only that but Sapp is the nickel. Ambrose and Washington are both quite a bit behind. (Interestingly enough, I heard DA say the same thing on 610 about 30 minutes later).

Also, this year is not like last year. If we go 1-3 we could be done. This is Vermeil's last year and if we start out slow, the assistants could just start looking for jobs instead of focusing.

He also said that Kirk Ferentz' name has been whispered around Arrowhead.

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8/1 Update posted by htismaqe
I heard most of the part about the coaches and what's going on there:

Vermeil and Peterson have told Saunders, no excuses get Larry Johnson on the field -- Holthus editorialized a bit, said LJ looks SUPERB so far in camp

Gunther and Saunders may have it out at some point during camp. There's been a few fights. Vermeil asked Gunther to tone it down a bit last year, but this year Vermeil has let him go back to being his old self. Saunders and Gunther have the giveaways/takeaways on a huge poster in the locker room and the defense right now is +8. Gunther rubs it in every chance he gets.

That's really the big stuff I heard him say. Mitchell's injury didn't sound serious, he was confident Shields would be fine (although he did say it was a little concerning), Wiegmann looks rejuvinated, and Priest looks like a "spring chicken".

the Talking Can
08-01-2005, 07:24 AM
I like good news.

the Talking Can
08-01-2005, 07:24 AM
I also like AS and Gun competing.

Fried Meat Ball!
08-01-2005, 07:33 AM
The Gun/Saunders thing is awesome!

morphius
08-01-2005, 07:34 AM
I'm not sure I understand the giveaway/takeaway board, I could see a takeaway/touchdown board, but the other doesn't make a lick of sense to me as shouldn't the D always be a plus here?

htismaqe
08-01-2005, 07:34 AM
I'm not sure I understand the giveaway/takeaway board, I could see a takeaway/touchdown board, but the other doesn't make a lick of sense to me as shouldn't the D always be a plus here?

Don't know, just repeating what he said.

Chiefnj
08-01-2005, 07:36 AM
The Gun/Saunders thing is awesome!


That is a dumb thing to say. It is never good when a teams offense and defense take sides against each other. Especially in this situation where it is so lopsided and the offense has been carrying the defense the last 4 years.

Gunther is no position whatsoever to talk trash against the offense.

cron912
08-01-2005, 07:38 AM
Mitch was also on 1330 AM out of Wichita this morning.

He said so far, the defense is playing better than the offense. (Is the defense doing that good, or offense starting out slow?)
Shields is in KC today getting checked out.
FredEx is also in KC today getting looked at; knee will probably need to be scoped.
He talked a little about DJ getting signed; should be in River Falls later today, and went on how he will probably get razed by vets, and they'll tell him to 'earn his money'.
Gunther has his 'mojo' back. (And yes, he did actually say 'mojo')
He said one of his main concerns is replacing players on special teams, like Beisel and Blaylock.

If you can get 1330 AM out of Wichita, Mitch will be on every morning @ 8:19 during camp.

Scaga
08-01-2005, 07:41 AM
If you can get 1330 AM out of Wichita, Mitch will be on every morning @ 8:19 during camp.

Nice...rep

Fried Meat Ball!
08-01-2005, 07:43 AM
That is a dumb thing to say. It is never good when a teams offense and defense take sides against each other. Especially in this situation where it is so lopsided and the offense has been carrying the defense the last 4 years.

Gunther is no position whatsoever to talk trash against the offense.
I see it as friendly competition, and Gun ingraining the importance of takeaways. I think you're right about the offense carrying the defense, but it's a new year, and THIS offense hasn't done ANYTHING, which also means THIS defense hasn't done anything either... good or bad. It's camp, and IMO competition between the sides doesn't mean they're "taking sides against each other." It means they're learning to get better from each other's play. If the defense is good, the offense should get better. With the offense we have, the defense has a better opportunity to get better.

So take my "dumb thing to say" and stick it up your ass. It's just how I see it, you're welcome to view it how you like.

Shox
08-01-2005, 07:43 AM
That is a dumb thing to say. It is never good when a teams offense and defense take sides against each other. Especially in this situation where it is so lopsided and the offense has been carrying the defense the last 4 years.

Gunther is no position whatsoever to talk trash against the offense.

He also said "Patrick Surtain is a stud". Said he has looked outstanding so far.

Braincase
08-01-2005, 07:53 AM
Of course AS & GC are going at it. There's only one opening at HC next year, and Gun has a .500 record as a head coach.

tomahawk kid
08-01-2005, 07:57 AM
The fact that the defense is ahead of the offense should have everyone VERY excited.

Normally, this is the trend early on in training camps. The fact that the Chiefs offense was carving up the defense early in TC the past few years was a good indicator that the D sucked.

Chiefnj
08-01-2005, 08:07 AM
The fact that the defense is ahead of the offense should have everyone VERY excited.

Normally, this is the trend early on in training camps. The fact that the Chiefs offense was carving up the defense early in TC the past few years was a good indicator that the D sucked.

How is the defense ahead of the offense at this point? When I see the recaps from River Falls and they go over the 7 on 7 and 11 on 11 drills it seems that the QB's have very high completion rates including the 2nd and 3rd stringers. For example from the last practice:

"During the final series of 11-on-11's quarterback Trent Green was 7-10."
"Quarterback Todd Collins was 2-3 in the final series of 11-on-11's."
"Quarterback Damon Huard was 3-4 this afternoon in the final series of 11-on-11's."

bobbything
08-01-2005, 08:13 AM
The offense has not opened up anything yet. Once they start practicing game day stuff, this defense will not look nearly as good. Taking nothing away from what the defense is accomplishing though. I'm glad they're fired up. I just hope it doesn't all go to their head really fast.

Really, they should do well against this offense. They've been practicing against them every day for the last 4 years. Against the KC offense, the best defense should be the KC defense.

htismaqe
08-01-2005, 08:42 AM
Neither the offense or the defense has "opened up" yet. Gunther's defensive playbook is almost as large as Saunders' offensive playbook.

If anything, the offense should be farther ahead because most of those guys have been here. The defense has several free agents that have to get acclimated.

And I should make this clear: Holthus did not say that this was contentious. Vermeil actually seems to be harboring some competition this year. If you ask me, I think the offense needs it, they seem to act complacent at times.

tomahawk kid
08-01-2005, 09:04 AM
How is the defense ahead of the offense at this point? When I see the recaps from River Falls and they go over the 7 on 7 and 11 on 11 drills it seems that the QB's have very high completion rates including the 2nd and 3rd stringers. For example from the last practice:

"During the final series of 11-on-11's quarterback Trent Green was 7-10."
"Quarterback Todd Collins was 2-3 in the final series of 11-on-11's."
"Quarterback Damon Huard was 3-4 this afternoon in the final series of 11-on-11's."

Just going off of what was written in the initial post.......

Chiefnj
08-01-2005, 09:09 AM
Just going off of what was written in the initial post.......

I'm not knocking what you wrote. The reports coming from camp seem to conflict a lot.

keg in kc
08-01-2005, 09:12 AM
And I should make this clear: Holthus did not say that this was contentious. Vermeil actually seems to be harboring some competition this year. If you ask me, I think the offense needs it, they seem to act complacent at times.I agree. I think we need a little more attitude on offense at times. How many times in the last four years has the offense had the ball late in a game in a position to come from behind, pad a lead or simply run the clock out, and failed?

I don't think anything's wrong with a little bad blood between the two units in camp, either, although I didn't see that mentioned anywhere. Just that there might be some between Saunders and Cunningham. As long as it seals itself up once the final roster's set in September. Working harder, or with more intensity, is going to make both units that much better, so long as everybody keeps their head on straight and nobody gets hurt.

JMO of course.

tomahawk kid
08-01-2005, 09:14 AM
I'm not knocking what you wrote. The reports coming from camp seem to conflict a lot.

In that note, I would tend to go w/ Holtus' analysis over a 19 Year old UWRF student who writes like the 9th grader.

Just my $0.02......

WilliamTheIrish
08-01-2005, 09:15 AM
I don't give a rat's azz what they do as long as this squad is thinking SB victory and nothing else.

Chief Henry
08-01-2005, 09:24 AM
Neither the offense or the defense has "opened up" yet. Gunther's defensive playbook is almost as large as Saunders' offensive playbook.

If anything, the offense should be farther ahead because most of those guys have been here. The defense has several free agents that have to get acclimated.

And I should make this clear: Holthus did not say that this was contentious. Vermeil actually seems to be harboring some competition this year. If you ask me, I think the offense needs it, they seem to act complacent at times.


My thoughts exactly. I hope the defense is pushing the offense.
I hope the D Line is getting some push up the middle. This is what I'm waiting to hear about out of camp.

Baby Lee
08-01-2005, 09:24 AM
That is a dumb thing to say. It is never good when a teams offense and defense take sides against each other. Especially in this situation where it is so lopsided and the offense has been carrying the defense the last 4 years.

Gunther is no position whatsoever to talk trash against the offense.
F#ck 'position.' If it helps him get a quality D on the field in the regular season, Gun has my permission to take a sh!t on Saunder's desk.

RINGLEADER
08-01-2005, 10:03 AM
The fact that the defense is ahead of the offense should have everyone VERY excited.

Yes, it's exciting to not have a turd defense. But it also raises the question of whether or not the offense can continue to sustain a high level of production. If you remember, the offense stumbled a lot at key times last year...not hanging the losses on them, but we would have been in the playoffs if not for the decline in our red zone production.

whoman69
08-01-2005, 12:02 PM
Yes, it's exciting to not have a turd defense. But it also raises the question of whether or not the offense can continue to sustain a high level of production. If you remember, the offense stumbled a lot at key times last year...not hanging the losses on them, but we would have been in the playoffs if not for the decline in our red zone production.
Part of that drop in the red zone has to do with Priest injured for half the season. Despite that LJ and Blaylock did great, Priest has a nose for the goal line.

ct
08-01-2005, 12:18 PM
Mitch was also on 1330 AM out of Wichita this morning.

He said so far, the defense is playing better than the offense. (Is the defense doing that good, or offense starting out slow?)
Shields is in KC today getting checked out.
FredEx is also in KC today getting looked at; knee will probably need to be scoped.
He talked a little about DJ getting signed; should be in River Falls later today, and went on how he will probably get razed by vets, and they'll tell him to 'earn his money'.
Gunther has his 'mojo' back. (And yes, he did actually say 'mojo')
He said one of his main concerns is replacing players on special teams, like Beisel and Blaylock.

If you can get 1330 AM out of Wichita, Mitch will be on every morning @ 8:19 during camp.

Thank you! Nice tip!

Chiefs Pantalones
08-01-2005, 12:23 PM
I say f#ck DV for trying to tell Gun to tone it down last year. Defense isn't for pussies. Does DV think he's running a fantasy football team or something? I'm glad DV is letting Gun be himself this year.

ct
08-01-2005, 12:30 PM
I agree. I think we need a little more attitude on offense at times. How many times in the last four years has the offense had the ball late in a game in a position to come from behind, pad a lead or simply run the clock out, and failed?

I don't think anything's wrong with a little bad blood between the two units in camp, either, although I didn't see that mentioned anywhere. Just that there might be some between Saunders and Cunningham. As long as it seals itself up once the final roster's set in September. Working harder, or with more intensity, is going to make both units that much better, so long as everybody keeps their head on straight and nobody gets hurt.

JMO of course.

An opinion I happen to share!

tk13
08-01-2005, 12:36 PM
I say f#ck DV for trying to tell Gun to tone it down last year. Defense isn't for pussies. Does DV think he's running a fantasy football team or something? I'm glad DV is letting Gun be himself this year.
I don't know where people get this idea that DV is so soft in terms of football thinking. DV has always talked about having a "level of violence". If he hadn't run into Martz/Saunders in his career, he'd probably still be a grind it out/blood and dirt football coach. Really, he still is, because you'll hear him piss and moan when Saunders gets too pass happy during a game.

jspchief
08-01-2005, 12:49 PM
Just a few more notes on What Holthus aid this morning...

He said the contract we signed DJ to doesn't have any big jumps or roster bonuses further down the line. Basically said that they have him inked for five years in a contract that will never get too high priced for them or make them weigh production versus cost.

Said Fredex could miss most or all of the pre-season with the knee scope.

Chiefs Pantalones
08-01-2005, 12:50 PM
I don't know where people get this idea that DV is so soft in terms of football thinking. DV has always talked about having a "level of violence". If he hadn't run into Martz/Saunders in his career, he'd probably still be a grind it out/blood and dirt football coach. Really, he still is, because you'll hear him piss and moan when Saunders gets too pass happy during a game.

DV has been nothing but soft during his tenure here at KC, as far as the defense is concerned. He hired a soft DC in Greggy poo, and totally supported the way he coached. I'm thankful DV is changing, thanks to Gun. I'm just going by what I've seen the last 4 years in KC.

I think our defense will be loads better this year, thanks to Gun and the added talent that we would not have added if it weren't for him. Terrible head coach, but good DC.

Mike in SW-MO
08-01-2005, 01:21 PM
Remember in the 7-on-7 and 11-on-11 recaps, the defense is not allowed to hit the QBs and the offense doesn't give up the ball when Trent flings and INT.

htismaqe
08-02-2005, 07:40 AM
Wasn't much to it this morning...

Dexter McCleon IS the starter opposite Surtain. Not only that but Sapp is the nickel. Ambrose and Washington are both quite a bit behind. (Interestingly enough, I heard DA say the same thing on 610 about 30 minutes later).

Also, this year is not like last year. If we go 1-3 we could be done. This is Vermeil's last year and if we start out slow, the assistants could just start looking for jobs instead of focusing.

He also said that Kirk Ferentz' name has been whispered around Arrowhead.

ptlyon
08-02-2005, 07:43 AM
He also said that Kirk Ferentz' name has been whispered around Arrowhead.

Interesting...

ptlyon
08-02-2005, 07:45 AM
Also, this year is not like last year. If we go 1-3 we're done. This is Vermeil's last year and if we start out slow, the assistants will start looking for jobs instead of focusing.


Then put a fork in us. I don't see us better than 2-2 after 4.

Hope I'm wrong.

ZootedGranny
08-02-2005, 07:45 AM
Very interesting.

I wouldn't have a problem with him as coach.

siberian khatru
08-02-2005, 07:46 AM
If we go 1-3 we're done. This is Vermeil's last year and if we start out slow, the assistants will start looking for jobs instead of focusing.

Holthus actually said that? They're basically going to quit at 1-3? That's nuts.

Coach
08-02-2005, 07:48 AM
What? If he said that, he's senile. There are quite a few teams in the NFL that has came back from a 1-3 defict to make it to the playoffs.

MichaelH
08-02-2005, 07:50 AM
What? If he said that, he's senile. There are quite a few teams in the NFL that has came back from a 1-3 defict to make it to the playoffs.

I can see it happening after the letdowns that have occured. I don't think it's right but it can happen.

htismaqe
08-02-2005, 07:52 AM
What? If he said that, he's senile. There are quite a few teams in the NFL that has came back from a 1-3 defict to make it to the playoffs.

Not teams that have 20 coaches in the final year of their contracts.

Holthus said the air around the FO is that a change needs to be made. At this point, he said even if Vermeil did want to come back, it might not happen.

petegz28
08-02-2005, 07:55 AM
Boy there is just so much optomism around the Chiefs this year. NOT! Now even Holthus is on the "cry about last year" bandwagon.

htismaqe
08-02-2005, 07:57 AM
Boy there is just so much optomism around the Chiefs this year. NOT! Now even Holthus is on the "cry about last year" bandwagon.

"Cry about last year"?

WTF are you talking about?

All Holthus said is that this team absolutely CANNOT afford to start off slow. He didn't even MENTION last year.

tomahawk kid
08-02-2005, 07:58 AM
Not teams that have 20 coaches in the final year of their contracts.

Holthus said the air around the FO is that a change needs to be made. At this point, he said even if Vermeil did want to come back, it might not happen.

That's scary right there. Not the attitude that you want to have at the beginning of a contending season.

Sh!t.

The part about Ambrose and Washington has me nervous as well. If McCleon and Sapp look better than those 2, we are in trouble. I don't think corner is a position that has a huge "learning curve" from a playbook standpoint, since these guys are basically on an island.

siberian khatru
08-02-2005, 08:01 AM
Not teams that have 20 coaches in the final year of their contracts.

Holthus said the air around the FO is that a change needs to be made. At this point, he said even if Vermeil did want to come back, it might not happen.


They're gonna be in the final year of their contracts whether they win or lose. Would not their employment prospects for 2006 improve if they worked hard to turn around a 1-3 start rather than quit and go in the tank, finishing 6-10 or whatever on the heels of a disappointing 7-9 the year before? What does a 2-year mark of 13-19 do for you on the open market? Aren't these guys supposed to be a bit more professional than that?

Quitting at 1-3 makes them no better than all us whiny bitches on the Planet. :p

htismaqe
08-02-2005, 08:04 AM
They're gonna be in the final year of their contracts whether they win or lose. Would not their employment prospects for 2006 improve if they worked hard to turn around a 1-3 start rather than quit and go in the tank, finishing 6-10 or whatever on the heels of a disappointing 7-9 the year before? What does a 2-year mark of 13-19 do for you on the open market? Aren't these guys supposed to be a bit more professional than that?

Quitting at 1-3 makes them no better than all us whiny bitches on the Planet. :p

OK, I see where this is coming from. I worded it wrong. Re-read the initial post now.

Coach
08-02-2005, 08:05 AM
Not teams that have 20 coaches in the final year of their contracts.

Holthus said the air around the FO is that a change needs to be made. At this point, he said even if Vermeil did want to come back, it might not happen.

Hmm... not exactly the way I like to start off with. Unless it's the thought that Clark Hunt will be overtaking the franchise sooner than they're letting on. IIRC, Clark isn't too fond towards Carl, is he or is he not?

Either way, I was listening to the radio on the way to drop my sister off to work, and I didn't get the station, but they mentioned that Vermeil is pissed off. It turns out Freddie didnt go to KC to have his leg scoped. He went somewhere else for a 2nd opinion. He was supposed to get scoped today from what the radio said.

Just throwing in what I heard.

htismaqe
08-02-2005, 08:10 AM
Hmm... not exactly the way I like to start off with. Unless it's the thought that Clark Hunt will be overtaking the franchise sooner than they're letting on. IIRC, Clark isn't too fond towards Carl, is he or is he not?

Either way, I was listening to the radio on the way to drop my sister off to work, and I didn't get the station, but they mentioned that Vermeil is pissed off. It turns out Freddie didnt go to KC to have his leg scoped. He went somewhere else for a 2nd opinion. He was supposed to get scoped today from what the radio said.

Just throwing in what I heard.

Freddie went to get a 2nd opinion instead of getting it scoped. 2nd opinion recommended getting the scope anyway, which is now scheduled for tomorrow. It set him back 2 days, which is why Vermeil is pissed.

BigRedChief
08-02-2005, 08:12 AM
If we go 1-3 we are realistically done for the year. Not toast but dang close.

HemiEd
08-02-2005, 08:17 AM
What? If he said that, he's senile. There are quite a few teams in the NFL that has came back from a 1-3 defict to make it to the playoffs.


Exactly, and our schedule gets a little more friendly after the "first quarter."
Kirk Ferentz'? Sounds like some Iowa homerism to me. I want Al Saunders!

DTLB58
08-02-2005, 08:17 AM
He also said that Kirk Ferentz' name has been whispered around Arrowhead.

Too bad though, I don't think Ferentz is gonna listen to any whispering any time soon. It sounds like he LOVES his situation at Iowa right now.

I was talking to my son last night about Vermeil's replacement and my top 3 in no particular order were:

1. Kirk Ferentz :clap:
2. Jon Gruden
3. Herm Edwards

Coach
08-02-2005, 08:17 AM
Welp, I guess we'll just simply say what the Cubs fans say it best.

"Wait until next year" :p

htismaqe
08-02-2005, 08:21 AM
Exactly, and our schedule gets a little more friendly after the "first quarter."
Kirk Ferentz'? Sounds like some Iowa homerism to me. I want Al Saunders!

Mitch is VERY fond of "localizing". He's sponsoring the 1-A Earlham Cardinals football team for September. I think he just likes to show he knows a little something about the cities/areas he's being interviewed in. So you very well could be right...

As for the schedule, I don't care how many teams start 1-3 and make the playoffs.

This season isn't about the playoffs, it's about the Super Bowl. Know how many 1-3 teams have gone on to the Super Bowl? EXACTLY.

keg in kc
08-02-2005, 08:22 AM
I think this first four game thing is overblown. First of all, I don't see why we shouldn't win 2-3 of the first 4, but even if we don't, looking at the rest of the schedule, I still see us finishing with 10 or 11 wins. If we start hot, I see 12 wins. Normal injury caveat, of course.

HemiEd
08-02-2005, 08:22 AM
Vermeil's replacement and my top 3 in no particular order were:

1. Kirk Ferentz :clap:
2. Jon Gruden
3. Herm Edwards


:Lin:

Coach
08-02-2005, 08:23 AM
Freddie went to get a 2nd opinion instead of getting it scoped. 2nd opinion recommended getting the scope anyway, which is now scheduled for tomorrow. It set him back 2 days, which is why Vermeil is pissed.

Ah, well I can understand why Vermeil is pissed about that. Basically Freddie is just throwing away his chances.

Eh, I'm not too worried about Freddie. If he contributes, along with his mouth stapled shut, I won't complain. But then, if he misses more time, then might as well cut him, since we already have solid, yet unexperienced, WR corps.

RedThat
08-02-2005, 08:27 AM
Mitch is VERY fond of "localizing". He's sponsoring the 1-A Earlham Cardinals football team for September. I think he just likes to show he knows a little something about the cities/areas he's being interviewed in. So you very well could be right...

As for the schedule, I don't care how many teams start 1-3 and make the playoffs.

This season isn't about the playoffs, it's about the Super Bowl. Know how many 1-3 teams have gone on to the Super Bowl? EXACTLY.

Only 1. The New England Patriots

HemiEd
08-02-2005, 08:28 AM
Mitch is VERY fond of "localizing". He's sponsoring the 1-A Earlham Cardinals football team for September. I think he just likes to show he knows a little something about the cities/areas he's being interviewed in. So you very well could be right...

As for the schedule, I don't care how many teams start 1-3 and make the playoffs.

This season isn't about the playoffs, it's about the Super Bowl. Know how many 1-3 teams have gone on to the Super Bowl? EXACTLY.


Well then we could probably be the first. :p
I agree we are set up for making a Super Bowl run this year, probably better than any in many, many years.
Personally, I enjoy each game week in and week out. If we end up 11-5 after starting 0-4, why would we not have tremendous momentum going into the playoffs?

petegz28
08-02-2005, 08:30 AM
"Cry about last year"?

WTF are you talking about?

All Holthus said is that this team absolutely CANNOT afford to start off slow. He didn't even MENTION last year.


"Also, this year is not like last year. If we go 1-3 we could be done. This is Vermeil's last year and if we start out slow, the assistants could just start looking for jobs instead of focusing."

Your words or his (Mitch's)?

RedThat
08-02-2005, 08:32 AM
I like Kirk Ferentz for a couple of reasons. He is a simple, fundamental type of coach. His teams are highly emphasized on building inside the trenches. If we had Kirk Ferentz here, I would expect good lines on both sides of the ball. That is where it all starts imo.

Coogs
08-02-2005, 08:33 AM
I think this first four game thing is overblown. First of all, I don't see why we shouldn't win 2-3 of the first 4, but even if we don't, looking at the rest of the schedule, I still see us finishing with 10 or 11 wins. If we start hot, I see 12 wins. Normal injury caveat, of course.



I agree! I think a charged up team and crowd will be enough to take down the Jets in week 1. I also think if we are improved to the heights I think we are going to be on defense, we should split at the worst on the road two games... at worst. And Philly at Arrowhead... just feels like the type of game where the Chiefs always plays well against the best from the NFC.

Dr. Facebook Fever
08-02-2005, 08:38 AM
He also said that Kirk Ferentz' name has been whispered around Arrowhead.
Ok I admit... I have no idea who that is.

RedThat
08-02-2005, 08:43 AM
Ok I admit... I have no idea who that is.

Head coach Iowa Hawkeyes NCAA

HemiEd
08-02-2005, 08:44 AM
Ok I admit... I have no idea who that is.


Iowa's Football Coach I believe. He has done a great job there, but he is still a college coach. I feel the same about Stoops.

Dr. Facebook Fever
08-02-2005, 08:46 AM
Iowa's Football Coach I believe. He has done a great job there, but he is still a college coach. I feel the same about Stoops.
college coaches can stay in college imo.

ROYC75
08-02-2005, 08:47 AM
Ok I admit... I have no idea who that is.

Same here until I read the whole thread ands see where it was mentioned he was the Iowa coach.

shakesthecat
08-02-2005, 08:49 AM
Iowa's Football Coach I believe. He has done a great job there, but he is still a college coach. I feel the same about Stoops.

Ferentz was once Belicheks O Line coach in Cleveland.
He knows the Pro game.

As much as I'd hate to see him leave Iowa, I'd be thrilled if he bacame the Chiefs HC.

htismaqe
08-02-2005, 08:53 AM
Well then we could probably be the first. :p
I agree we are set up for making a Super Bowl run this year, probably better than any in many, many years.
Personally, I enjoy each game week in and week out. If we end up 11-5 after starting 0-4, why would we not have tremendous momentum going into the playoffs?

He who ignores history is doomed to repeat it.

We CANNOT afford to start off 1-3 or 0-4. Of course, I'm not really worried, I see us going 2-2 at worst.

htismaqe
08-02-2005, 08:53 AM
"Also, this year is not like last year. If we go 1-3 we could be done. This is Vermeil's last year and if we start out slow, the assistants could just start looking for jobs instead of focusing."

Your words or his (Mitch's)?

My words. Which is why I edited.

HemiEd
08-02-2005, 08:55 AM
Ferentz was once Belicheks O Line coach in Cleveland.
He knows the Pro game.

As much as I'd hate to see him leave Iowa, I'd be thrilled if he bacame the Chiefs HC.


I did not know of his Pro Game experience, thanks for the information. It makes me feel a little better. When I here of College Coaches I can not help but think of what happened to the Redskins when a College Icon took over.

htismaqe
08-02-2005, 08:55 AM
Iowa's Football Coach I believe. He has done a great job there, but he is still a college coach. I feel the same about Stoops.

Ferentz spent a few years as Bill Belichik's assistant and also helped build the Ravens offensive line. Jonathon Ogden still gives him credit for what he did for his game.

Ferentz knows the pro game, and more specifically he knows that games are won in the trenches.

petegz28
08-02-2005, 08:56 AM
My words. Which is why I edited.


Ok well then get over it. Everyone seems to be focused on the negative of last year. Personally I think we can go 1-3 and still kick ass. But I am just getting tired of people already glooming and dooming and we haven't taken 1 snap yet, that's all.

HemiEd
08-02-2005, 08:58 AM
He who ignores history is doomed to repeat it.

We CANNOT afford to start off 1-3 or 0-4. Of course, I'm not really worried, I see us going 2-2 at worst.

I agree with your history comment, but my glass is almost always half full.
If we started 0-4 or 1-3 I would probably have to check in to Rehab anyway.

shakesthecat
08-02-2005, 09:01 AM
But I am just getting tired of people already glooming and dooming and we haven't taken 1 snap yet, that's all.


No offense, but this is NOTHING compared to years past around here.

You'll get used to it.

ptlyon
08-02-2005, 09:02 AM
No offense, but this is NOTHING compared to years past around here.

You'll get used to it.

Wait until TG's first interception.

Total chaos.

htismaqe
08-02-2005, 09:02 AM
Ok well then get over it. Everyone seems to be focused on the negative of last year. Personally I think we can go 1-3 and still kick ass. But I am just getting tired of people already glooming and dooming and we haven't taken 1 snap yet, that's all.

I'm not glooming and dooming, nor am I focused on the negative of last year.

I'm merely stating a statistical fact -- only one team has started 1-3 and still made it to the Super Bowl.

I have a degree in History, and cannot just ignore the above. It's just not in my nature.

Like I said, I feel STRONGLY that we cannot start any worse than 2-2. However, I also feel STRONGLY that we WILL NOT start any worse than 2-2. :thumb:

ROYC75
08-02-2005, 09:10 AM
Not to harp here, we all thought at 0-2 last year we would next be 1-2, but we lost to Houston at home...0-3. We never recovered........

Sometimes shit happens.......

KCTitus
08-02-2005, 09:20 AM
Wait until TG's first interception.

Total chaos.

Remember when he 'smiled' after and interception? I think the thread was 300+ replies long.

Ahhh the good old days.

TEX
08-02-2005, 09:21 AM
Week 2 will NOT be pretty for McCleon . Moss is gonna have 250 + yards... :shake:

ptlyon
08-02-2005, 09:22 AM
Remember when he 'smiled' after and interception? I think the thread was 300+ replies long.

Ahhh the good old days.

I personally can't wait for the "McCleon/Ambrose/Whoever Sucks vs. No, we need better line penetration" argument to start.

ptlyon
08-02-2005, 09:22 AM
Week 2 will NOT be pretty for McCleon . Moss is gonna have 250 + yards... :shake:

Bet you a donut Surtain will have that assignment

TEX
08-02-2005, 09:25 AM
He also said that Kirk Ferentz' name has been whispered around Arrowhead.

Too bad though, I don't think Ferentz is gonna listen to any whispering any time soon. It sounds like he LOVES his situation at Iowa right now.

I was talking to my son last night about Vermeil's replacement and my top 3 in no particular order were:

1. Kirk Ferentz :clap:
2. Jon Gruden
3. Herm Edwards


Not me. Mine are:

1. Al Saunders
2. Al Saunders
3. Al Saunders

TEX
08-02-2005, 09:27 AM
Bet you a donut Surtain will have that assignment

Yep. You're right. I should say that week 2 ANYONE lined up across from McCleon will have 250 + yards. ALL Oakland's WR's have the ability to absolutely ABUSE McCleon. Hopefully the pass rush will be there...

ptlyon
08-02-2005, 09:28 AM
Hopefully the pass rush will be there...

Uh oh - it's already started

keg in kc
08-02-2005, 09:30 AM
The four picks Collins will throw should help offset the sting of McCleon giving up some yards, assuming McCleon's even the one starting.

htismaqe
08-02-2005, 09:34 AM
Week 2 will NOT be pretty for McCleon . Moss is gonna have 250 + yards... :shake:

Like McCleon is going to be covering Moss. :rolleyes:

ROYC75
08-02-2005, 09:36 AM
Surtain will cover Moss, IMHO, Porter will see alot of double coverge.

htismaqe
08-02-2005, 09:36 AM
Not me. Mine are:

1. Al Saunders
2. Al Saunders
3. Al Saunders

Trying to extend a good thing out of desperation worked SO well for us last time.

HemiEd
08-02-2005, 09:45 AM
Trying to extend a good thing out of desperation worked SO well for us last time.


I think Al Saunders has been the plan all along. I do not think you can compare him to the Gunther project failure fairly. Just my opinion I guess.

htismaqe
08-02-2005, 10:00 AM
I think Al Saunders has been the plan all along. I do not think you can compare him to the Gunther project failure fairly. Just my opinion I guess.

Gunther's record as a head coach -- 16-16.

Saunders' record as a head coach -- 17-22.

HemiEd
08-02-2005, 10:09 AM
Gunther's record as a head coach -- 16-16.

Saunders' record as a head coach -- 17-22.


Just numbers to me, that show AS has 7 more games of experience. :D I was embarrassed by and for Gunther when he was the Head Coach. I thought he was going to implode and have a Heart Attack on the sideline. He tried as hard or harder than anyone ever has IMO. He inherited a pretty good team.
I think Al Saunders has a better temperment for the job from what I have seen, but I could be wrong. Did Al Saunders have the same caliber of team when he was a head coach? Has he learned a few things, I dunno. I love his offense and dread the day it is gone.

Cormac
08-02-2005, 10:14 AM
Ferentz spent a few years as Bill Belichik's assistant and also helped build the Ravens offensive line. Jonathon Ogden still gives him credit for what he did for his game.

Ferentz knows the pro game, and more specifically he knows that games are won in the trenches.

So does Marty :doh!:

htismaqe
08-02-2005, 10:25 AM
Just numbers to me, that show AS has 7 more games of experience. :D I was embarrassed by and for Gunther when he was the Head Coach. I thought he was going to implode and have a Heart Attack on the sideline. He tried as hard or harder than anyone ever has IMO. He inherited a pretty good team.
I think Al Saunders has a better temperment for the job from what I have seen, but I could be wrong. Did Al Saunders have the same caliber of team when he was a head coach? Has he learned a few things, I dunno. I love his offense and dread the day it is gone.

Saunders, to me, is the offensive equivalent of Gunther.

Great coordinator, doesn't have the broad vision to be a head coach. He's demonstrated several times to me (the way he treated Larry Johnson, going for a pass on 3rd and 1, etc.) that he often misses the "big picture".

htismaqe
08-02-2005, 10:26 AM
So does Marty :doh!:

Kirk doesn't screw around.

When they win the toss, they take the ball. When they have 1st and ten at the 40 and need 2 points to win, they throw the ball long and try to win.

HemiEd
08-02-2005, 10:36 AM
Saunders, to me, is the offensive equivalent of Gunther.

Great coordinator, doesn't have the broad vision to be a head coach. He's demonstrated several times to me (the way he treated Larry Johnson, going for a pass on 3rd and 1, etc.) that he often misses the "big picture".


I understand your viewpoint. AS was not the only one the dissed LJ IMO, deservedly so. IIRC LJ was pissed when he was drafted by the Chiefs because of Priest Holmes obvious lock on the job.
It will be interesting to see what happens, a lot of head coach mistakes have been made in the past.

TRR
08-02-2005, 10:41 AM
If Saunders is passed on as a head coach in KC, he will no longer be the offensive coordinator. Saunders wants a head coaching job in the NFL, and he's done everything in his power to deserve one. He'll be a head coach in the NFL, whether it's in KC or not IMO.

Saunders deserves a chance as KC's head coach. What he has done with this offense CONSISTENTLY is nothing short of amazing.

htismaqe
08-02-2005, 10:48 AM
If Saunders is passed on as a head coach in KC, he will no longer be the offensive coordinator. Saunders wants a head coaching job in the NFL, and he's done everything in his power to deserve one. He'll be a head coach in the NFL, whether it's in KC or not IMO.

Saunders deserves a chance as KC's head coach. What he has done with this offense CONSISTENTLY is nothing short of amazing.

Lots of coordinators have done the same and gone on to be mediocre or worse head coaches. Norv Turner is a perfect example.

Yes, Al Saunders deserves to be a head coach.

No, it should not be in KC.

It's like dumping your girlfriend and then dating her sister because she reminds you of your ex.

When Vermeil steps down, we need to start FRESH.

ROYC75
08-02-2005, 10:53 AM
Lots of coordinators have done the same and gone on to be mediocre or worse head coaches. Norv Turner is a perfect example.

Yes, Al Saunders deserves to be a head coach.

No, it should not be in KC.

It's like dumping your girlfriend and then dating her sister because she reminds you of your ex.

When Vermeil steps down, we need to start FRESH.

I agree with this, I wouldn't want to date any of my wife's sisters.






BTW, wasn't Gun deserving a chance when marty went away ?

htismaqe
08-02-2005, 10:55 AM
I agree with this, I wouldn't want to date any of my wife's sisters.

BTW, wasn't Gun deserving a chance when marty went away ?

Absolutely.

In a city OTHER than KC.

Hiring Gunther as HC in KC was a feeble attempt to "extend" the Marty years without the essential ingredient, namely MARTY.

Hiring Al Saunders as HC here would be the same.

KCTitus
08-02-2005, 10:56 AM
Hiring Gunther as HC in KC was a feeble attempt to "extend" the Marty years without the essential ingredient, namely MARTY.

Hiring Al Saunders as HC here would be the same.

yep...been there done that. Next year, new staff all the way.

ROYC75
08-02-2005, 11:02 AM
Me thinks a new staff all together would serve best.... I agree with Parker, extending, or trying to extend without the HC is a wasted effort .........

Marty > Gun
DV > Martz
DV > ?

go bowe
08-02-2005, 11:09 AM
Lots of coordinators have done the same and gone on to be mediocre or worse head coaches. Norv Turner is a perfect example.

Yes, Al Saunders deserves to be a head coach.

No, it should not be in KC.

It's like dumping your girlfriend and then dating her sister because she reminds you of your ex.

When Vermeil steps down, we need to start FRESH.mmmmmm... yummy...

my wife has some smokin' sisters... :p :p :p

RedThat
08-02-2005, 11:11 AM
Surtain will cover Moss, IMHO, Porter will see alot of double coverge.

I can live that...Surtain covering moss, and porter being double covered by Dexter and Wesley....Then that leaves room for Curry though?

ROYC75
08-02-2005, 11:23 AM
I can live that...Surtain covering moss, and porter being double covered by Dexter and Wesley....Then that leaves room for Curry though?


Sapp will, Knight will shadow when needed.

DaneMcCloud
08-02-2005, 11:37 AM
Start fresh?? That's the DUMBEST idea I've heard in a long, long time. The reason teams like SF, Pittsburgh and Dallas were so successful for so long is that they didn't change their offensive system. The Chiefs finally have a great offense in place - a great system that utilizes the best of every player, whether it be offensive lineman, wide receivers, QB or running back. To completely change and bring in some college coach or another re-hashed old timer would be a waste of time. This team needs offensive continuity if it's going to continue to be successful.

They don't need another Marty Clone (Edwards, Cowher, etc.) or a West Coast offense disciple. Saunders needs to be given a minimum of 2 years as head coach. He's been in the top 5 of every offensive category since he's arrived and yes, any other coach who's ever done something close to that (whether it be on the offensive or defensive side of the ball) has become a head coach. Think Billick, Fassel, Nolan, Marvin Lewis, Dom Capers, etc. I don't want to see Saunders as a head coach anywhere else other than KC.

Dane
~Doesn't believe that interview anyway

Dave Lane
08-02-2005, 12:26 PM
What? If he said that, he's senile. There are quite a few teams in the NFL that has came back from a 1-3 defict to make it to the playoffs.

Like???

Dave

TRR
08-02-2005, 12:33 PM
Lots of coordinators have done the same and gone on to be mediocre or worse head coaches. Norv Turner is a perfect example.

Yes, Al Saunders deserves to be a head coach.

No, it should not be in KC.

It's like dumping your girlfriend and then dating her sister because she reminds you of your ex.

When Vermeil steps down, we need to start FRESH.

And the same amount of coordinators go on to be successful NFL Head Coaches. Start fresh? Why would you possibly want to give up arguably the best offensive mind in the NFL? Why would you want to start fresh? You even say he deserves to be a head coach, so why not KC? Saunders will bring new dimensions to the table than Vermeil.

You make absolutely no sense.

Chiefs Pantalones
08-02-2005, 12:42 PM
Me thinks a new staff all together would serve best.... I agree with Parker, extending, or trying to extend without the HC is a wasted effort .........

Marty > Gun
DV > Martz
DV > ?

Give it up, Roy. Even a new coach and a new set of coordinators won't put Scanlon in the starting lineup.

jspchief
08-02-2005, 12:48 PM
To elaborate on what Holthus said about Ferentz as the next coach, he said Ferentz or a similar type of coach.

He said the front office has recognized that the team is on the verge of a rebuilding stage where they will have a lot of young talent that will need more coaching. He said that none of KC's current coaches are very well suited to develop a young team. A younger, fundamentals oriented coach like Ferentz or similar would be better suited to build a young team.

If I thought Green had five more years in him, I would say give Saunders a shot to keep the ball rolling. But we need to start thinking about the next QB. And rather than trying to draft the next Green, it makes sense to bring in a new coach and let him get the type of QB he wants.

TEX
08-02-2005, 12:48 PM
Trying to extend a good thing out of desperation worked SO well for us last time.

Totally different situation. Just because it was a mistake then, does not mean it would be now. The candidates are different.

TEX
08-02-2005, 12:49 PM
Uh oh - it's already started

As well it should. It should be a topic EVERY day until our pathetic _efense improves.

Brock
08-02-2005, 12:51 PM
Hiring Gunther as HC in KC was a feeble attempt to "extend" the Marty years without the essential ingredient, namely MARTY.

Hiring Al Saunders as HC here would be the same.

I don't know if that's true, but I think Saunders will almost certainly be the next head coach, especially if the team does well this year.

TEX
08-02-2005, 12:54 PM
Gunther's record as a head coach -- 16-16.

Saunders' record as a head coach -- 17-22.

Gun and Saunders are two different people who coached two totally different teams in different decades...

What was Shanahan's record while in Oakland? What has he done in Denver? Wonder what would have been had he not gotten a second chance?

TRR
08-02-2005, 12:54 PM
To elaborate on what Holthus said about Ferentz as the next coach, he said Ferentz or a similar type of coach.

He said the front office has recognized that the team is on the verge of a rebuilding stage where they will have a lot of young talent that will need more coaching. He said that none of KC's current coaches are very well suited to develop a young team. A younger, fundamentals oriented coach like Ferentz or similar would be better suited to build a young team.

If I thought Green had five more years in him, I would say give Saunders a shot to keep the ball rolling. But we need to start thinking about the next QB. And rather than trying to draft the next Green, it makes sense to bring in a new coach and let him get the type of QB he wants.

It may be a Ferentz type of coach, but I don't see him leaving Iowa for awhile. He's building a great thing there, and that's where he started under Frye. I don't see Ferentz leaving for the NFL anytime in the near future.

Green has at least 3 seasons left in KC. He got his start late, and is in the best shape of his playing career. 3 seasons would be enough to give Saunders a legitimate chance at building a team through his vision. Not a lot of NFL Coaches like to develop QB's anymore with so many good vets out there in FA/via trade every offseason. Unless KC has a high draft choice, or a QB falls to them, the next QB in KC will come via FA or trade in my opinion.

TEX
08-02-2005, 12:56 PM
Start fresh?? That's the DUMBEST idea I've heard in a long, long time. The reason teams like SF, Pittsburgh and Dallas were so successful for so long is that they didn't change their offensive system. The Chiefs finally have a great offense in place - a great system that utilizes the best of every player, whether it be offensive lineman, wide receivers, QB or running back. To completely change and bring in some college coach or another re-hashed old timer would be a waste of time. This team needs offensive continuity if it's going to continue to be successful.

They don't need another Marty Clone (Edwards, Cowher, etc.) or a West Coast offense disciple. Saunders needs to be given a minimum of 2 years as head coach. He's been in the top 5 of every offensive category since he's arrived and yes, any other coach who's ever done something close to that (whether it be on the offensive or defensive side of the ball) has become a head coach. Think Billick, Fassel, Nolan, Marvin Lewis, Dom Capers, etc. I don't want to see Saunders as a head coach anywhere else other than KC.

Dane
~Doesn't believe that interview anyway

Very well said IMO. :clap:

ROYC75
08-02-2005, 12:57 PM
CP and AS don't see eye to eye on many things. Why do you think CP passed on AS the first time ?

Thig Lyfe
08-02-2005, 12:58 PM
Why so pessimistic? I think that we're overcompensating for all the off-season hype over DJ and Surtain and Bell. It's okay to think that the team's going to be good this year. The first four games are a lot more managable than people realize. The Jets are at home, Oakland is overhyped, and Denver has Jake Plummer. The Eagles game doesn't even worry me, just look at the offseason they've had.

3-1 at the worst is my prediction.

TRR
08-02-2005, 01:00 PM
CP and AS don't see eye to eye on many things. Why do you think CP passed on AS the first time ?

CP fired Gun, and then rehired him. I'm not sure that statement holds a lot of stock.

Mr. Laz
08-02-2005, 01:01 PM
If we go 1-3 we could be done. This is Vermeil's last year and if we start out slow, the assistants could just start looking for jobs instead of focusing
if vermeil says this he's Mensa



if a fan says it they are a beer drinkin',fair weather yahoo

Cormac
08-02-2005, 01:04 PM
Start fresh?? That's the DUMBEST idea I've heard in a long, long time. The reason teams like SF, Pittsburgh and Dallas were so successful for so long is that they didn't change their offensive system. The Chiefs finally have a great offense in place - a great system that utilizes the best of every player, whether it be offensive lineman, wide receivers, QB or running back. To completely change and bring in some college coach or another re-hashed old timer would be a waste of time. This team needs offensive continuity if it's going to continue to be successful.

They don't need another Marty Clone (Edwards, Cowher, etc.) or a West Coast offense disciple. Saunders needs to be given a minimum of 2 years as head coach. He's been in the top 5 of every offensive category since he's arrived and yes, any other coach who's ever done something close to that (whether it be on the offensive or defensive side of the ball) has become a head coach. Think Billick, Fassel, Nolan, Marvin Lewis, Dom Capers, etc. I don't want to see Saunders as a head coach anywhere else other than KC.

Dane
~Doesn't believe that interview anyway

I agree. The reason I wouldn't want to see us start fresh is that different coaches with different schemes want different types of players. I don't think we need 75% roster turnover in the next 3 years. And I bet that's what would happen if we started with a completely new coaching staff. We have the players, and only need to replace the (many) older ones on the offensive side of the ball. Also, I like our asst. coaches (esp on offense). Guys like Solari, Shea, Saxon etc. Fresh starts are for teams that are going nowhere. Call me a homer, but I believe we're close, and have been for 2 years. I hope we can keep this going for a couple more years.

TRR
08-02-2005, 01:05 PM
Also, this year is not like last year. If we go 1-3 we could be done. This is Vermeil's last year and if we start out slow, the assistants could just start looking for jobs instead of focusing.

If that's the case than Vermeil, Saunders, Gun and the rest of them need to start looking for jobs now. What an idiotic statement.

Rausch
08-02-2005, 01:06 PM
Hiring a HC that wants to hire completely different players to implement his offense/defense would be idiotic.

A lot of the starters on our offense are old but there's also a lot of young depth. Green likely has 2, perhaps 3 years left in him. LJ will step in for Priest, and he's proven he can produce. Gonzo probably has 5 years left. If we can find a way to replace Roaf and Shields with quality starters our offense will still be top 5 in the league.

Our defense is young. All three of our starting LB's are young. Outside of hicks our whole defensive line is young. Knight and Surtain aren't spring chickens but we've got plenty of depth at S and our only real area of concern would be CB.

The only holes this team will have over the next 2 to 3 years will be Offensive line, CB, and WR...

TRR
08-02-2005, 01:07 PM
I agree. The reason I wouldn't want to see us start fresh is that different coaches with different schemes want different types of players. I don't think we need 75% roster turnover in the next 3 years. And I bet that's what would happen if we started with a completely new coaching staff. We have the players, and only need to replace the (many) older ones on the offensive side of the ball. Also, I like our asst. coaches (esp on offense). Guys like Solari, Shea, Saxon etc. Fresh starts are for teams that are going nowhere. Call me a homer, but I believe we're close, and have been for 2 years. I hope we can keep this going for a couple more years.

I agree. Other than Roaf and Shields and possibly Holmes, I don't see anyone of consequence that willl retire in the next 3 seasons.

jspchief
08-02-2005, 01:08 PM
It may be a Ferentz type of coach, but I don't see him leaving Iowa for awhile. He's building a great thing there, and that's where he started under Frye. I don't see Ferentz leaving for the NFL anytime in the near future.

Green has at least 3 seasons left in KC. He got his start late, and is in the best shape of his playing career. 3 seasons would be enough to give Saunders a legitimate chance at building a team through his vision. Not a lot of NFL Coaches like to develop QB's anymore with so many good vets out there in FA/via trade every offseason. Unless KC has a high draft choice, or a QB falls to them, the next QB in KC will come via FA or trade in my opinion.You may be right about Ferentz leaving Iowa, but I still believe he'd come to the NFL for the right job. KC seems like it would be right up his alley. I wouldn't call him anti-media, but he's not big on spotlight. Of course any big head coaching job will have a lot of spotlight on him, but I would think KC would be considerably better than many other teams. I also think he's like the idea of staying in the midwest.

Holthus was simply commenting on who they would likely pursue. That doesn't mean Ferentz will be receptive to the courtship.

Holthus also hinted that the FO is getting tired of the cliffhanger of whether or not Vermeil is going to really retire. He made it sound like Vermeil may not be our coach next year, regardless of whether he wants to come back. I assume that might change if we have a spectacular season.

TEX
08-02-2005, 01:12 PM
CP and AS don't see eye to eye on many things. Why do you think CP passed on AS the first time ?

Posssibly but there is definately respect for each other despite their differences. Peterson has maintained that A.S. kept in contact with him even after he went to the Rams. There was MORE to it than what we think we know. IMO, A.S. had way more issues with Marty than he ever had with Peterson - and so would I if someone picked Jimmy Raye over me to be Offensive Coordinator. I still can't believe that one... :shake:

Chiefs Pantalones
08-02-2005, 01:15 PM
Why so pessimistic? I think that we're overcompensating for all the off-season hype over DJ and Surtain and Bell. It's okay to think that the team's going to be good this year. The first four games are a lot more managable than people realize. The Jets are at home, Oakland is overhyped, and Denver has Jake Plummer. The Eagles game doesn't even worry me, just look at the offseason they've had.

3-1 at the worst is my prediction.

I agree. I've been quietly optimistic about the first four games. I think we will be 3-1 at worst, with the only loss against Denver. I can see us going 4-0 with a couple bounces. This team is going to be good this year, there is just too much of a sense of urgency on this team, not just from us, but from the players and coaches. They know they are running out of time and it would be a huge disappointment if this team played like last year. The only thing slowing us down would be injuries.

htismaqe
08-02-2005, 01:19 PM
Start fresh?? That's the DUMBEST idea I've heard in a long, long time. The reason teams like SF, Pittsburgh and Dallas were so successful for so long is that they didn't change their offensive system. The Chiefs finally have a great offense in place - a great system that utilizes the best of every player, whether it be offensive lineman, wide receivers, QB or running back. To completely change and bring in some college coach or another re-hashed old timer would be a waste of time. This team needs offensive continuity if it's going to continue to be successful.

They don't need another Marty Clone (Edwards, Cowher, etc.) or a West Coast offense disciple. Saunders needs to be given a minimum of 2 years as head coach. He's been in the top 5 of every offensive category since he's arrived and yes, any other coach who's ever done something close to that (whether it be on the offensive or defensive side of the ball) has become a head coach. Think Billick, Fassel, Nolan, Marvin Lewis, Dom Capers, etc. I don't want to see Saunders as a head coach anywhere else other than KC.

Dane
~Doesn't believe that interview anyway

What the **** are you talking about? Dallas had ZERO continuity. Jimmy Johnson and his staff were a 100% change from Landry and his bunch. Pittsburgh was the same. Cowher was a completely fresh start.

San Francisco was the EXCEPTION to the rule, largely because of the players they had, namely Steve Young.

As far as who we need, you're right, we don't need another Marty clone. We don't need a clone of ANYONE.

Think Billick, Fassel, Nolan, Lewis, Capers? I DID. ONE Super Bowl appearance amongst them.

Chiefs Pantalones
08-02-2005, 01:19 PM
CP and AS don't see eye to eye on many things. Why do you think CP passed on AS the first time ?

When asked which QB both prefered, Gun said Grbac, Al said Gannon. That was some of it.

htismaqe
08-02-2005, 01:20 PM
And the same amount of coordinators go on to be successful NFL Head Coaches. Start fresh? Why would you possibly want to give up arguably the best offensive mind in the NFL? Why would you want to start fresh? You even say he deserves to be a head coach, so why not KC? Saunders will bring new dimensions to the table than Vermeil.

You make absolutely no sense.

I absolutely make sense.

Read your statement again, like this:

And the same amount of coordinators go on to be successful NFL Head Coaches. Start fresh? Why would you possibly want to give up arguably the best defensive mind in the NFL? Why would you want to start fresh? You even say he deserves to be a head coach, so why not KC? Cunningham will bring new dimensions to the table than Schottenheimer.

jspchief
08-02-2005, 01:20 PM
Think Billick, Fassel, Nolan, Lewis, Capers? I DID. ONE Super Bowl appearance amongst them.Actually, two. Billick faced Fassel, and whipped his ass.

htismaqe
08-02-2005, 01:25 PM
I don't know if that's true, but I think Saunders will almost certainly be the next head coach, especially if the team does well this year.

I thought so too, until recently. Carl and Saunders don't get along.

htismaqe
08-02-2005, 01:26 PM
Gun and Saunders are two different people who coached two totally different teams in different decades...

What was Shanahan's record while in Oakland? What has he done in Denver? Wonder what would have been had he not gotten a second chance?

What was Shanahan's record without John Elway, regardless of where it was?

Exactly.

htismaqe
08-02-2005, 01:27 PM
Actually, two. Billick faced Fassel, and whipped his ass.

Oops, I forgot Fassel.

I'm sure you can see why I left him out. :D

Rausch
08-02-2005, 01:28 PM
I absolutely make sense.

Read your statement again, like this:

And the same amount of coordinators go on to be successful NFL Head Coaches. Start fresh? Why would you possibly want to give up arguably the best defensive mind in the NFL? Why would you want to start fresh? You even say he deserves to be a head coach, so why not KC? Cunningham will bring new dimensions to the table than Schottenheimer.

For the sake of argument lets say DV is definitely gone next year.

Looking around the league I don't see any of the top 10 coaches getting fired or reaching the end of their contracts, so the idea of landing a big name who's already been a HC looks unlikely.

That means we'll hire:

A) A college coach.
B) An NFL coordinator
C) Promote a coach in-house.

Which of those three options looks the best to you?...

Jenson71
08-02-2005, 01:30 PM
What are the chances of F. Mitchell starting this year?

Thig Lyfe
08-02-2005, 01:32 PM
What are the chances of F. Mitchell starting this year?

.00001%

TEX
08-02-2005, 01:34 PM
What was Shanahan's record without John Elway, regardless of where it was?

Exactly.

Okay. Point taken. Now I'll throw out another name - BILLICHICK. Wonder what would have happened if he wasn't given another chance after Cleveland? :hmmm:

Raiderhader
08-02-2005, 01:35 PM
For the sake of argument lets say DV is definitely gone next year.

Looking around the league I don't see any of the top 10 coaches getting fired or reaching the end of their contracts, so the idea of landing a big name who's already been a HC looks unlikely.

That means we'll hire:

A) A college coach.
B) An NFL coordinator
C) Promote a coach in-house.

Which of those three options looks the best to you?...


That would depend on who is available in all three catagories, wouldn't?

TEX
08-02-2005, 01:35 PM
When asked which QB both prefered, Gun said Grbac, Al said Gannon. That was some of it.

And who was right? :hmmm:

Mr. Laz
08-02-2005, 01:37 PM
isn't Ferentz an Ioweenie?


that kinda sucks



heh

Brock
08-02-2005, 01:38 PM
That means we'll hire:

A) A college coach.
B) An NFL coordinator
C) Promote a coach in-house.

Which of those three options looks the best to you?...

It will be both B and C.

htismaqe
08-02-2005, 01:41 PM
Okay. Point taken. Now I'll throw out another name - BILLICHICK. Wonder what would have happened if he wasn't given another chance after Cleveland? :hmmm:

For every one of your Bill Belichik's I can name 3 Chan Gailey's.

htismaqe
08-02-2005, 01:42 PM
For the sake of argument lets say DV is definitely gone next year.

Looking around the league I don't see any of the top 10 coaches getting fired or reaching the end of their contracts, so the idea of landing a big name who's already been a HC looks unlikely.

That means we'll hire:

A) A college coach.
B) An NFL coordinator
C) Promote a coach in-house.

Which of those three options looks the best to you?...

Ultimately, I don't think Carl can resist the lure of once again trying to artificially recreate the Marty years.

I think our next head coach will likely be Herm Edwards or someone like him.

BigRedChief
08-02-2005, 01:43 PM
What happend to Stoops as "the" college coach for the Chiefs?

I think Sanders has the job so its a moot point.

the Talking Can
08-02-2005, 01:45 PM
Hiring a HC that wants to hire completely different players to implement his offense/defense would be idiotic.

A lot of the starters on our offense are old but there's also a lot of young depth. Green likely has 2, perhaps 3 years left in him. LJ will step in for Priest, and he's proven he can produce. Gonzo probably has 5 years left. If we can find a way to replace Roaf and Shields with quality starters our offense will still be top 5 in the league.

Our defense is young. All three of our starting LB's are young. Outside of hicks our whole defensive line is young. Knight and Surtain aren't spring chickens but we've got plenty of depth at S and our only real area of concern would be CB.

The only holes this team will have over the next 2 to 3 years will be Offensive line, CB, and WR...

I agree. We are actually in pretty good shape...much to my own surprise.

In the next 3 years we'll need a LT, a #1WR to replace Kennison, a young CB to replace Warfield, a DE to replace Hicks...and maybe, unfortunetly, a DT.

We also, of course, need a QBOTF or we'll have to roll the dice on another "Vet" like Green. Over 3 years that is all doable with smart drafts.

Bell and Surtain have 3+ years. DJ/Fujita/Fox have 3+ years. Wesley has 3+ years. LJ. Holcombe. Parker. Dante. Crap-ho. Wilson. Allen. Siavvi(??). Welbourne to replace Shields.

I realize CP doesn't like AS, but I hope AS gets the job. He isn't Vermeil. He is brilliant at using spare parts and scraps to whip the best defenses in the league. I'd like to keep that mind on our sideline. Gun can stay at DC and purge his shitty defensive coaches.

Rausch
08-02-2005, 01:45 PM
For every one of your Bill Belichik's I can name 3 Chan Gailey's.

The same can be said of 1st round QB's.

And I wonder if the Rams would make a move for Saunders this year if Martz continues to be an underachiever. :hmmm:

the Talking Can
08-02-2005, 01:46 PM
our next head coach will likely be Herm Edwards or someone like him.


that would be a disaster...makes me sick to think about it

Rausch
08-02-2005, 01:49 PM
Ultimately, I don't think Carl can resist the lure of once again trying to artificially recreate the Marty years.

I think our next head coach will likely be Herm Edwards or someone like him.

I happen to like Herm Edwards.

But, we probably wouldn't be able to see eye to eye on a HC with a telescope... :p

TRR
08-02-2005, 01:50 PM
I absolutely make sense.

Read your statement again, like this:

And the same amount of coordinators go on to be successful NFL Head Coaches. Start fresh? Why would you possibly want to give up arguably the best defensive mind in the NFL? Why would you want to start fresh? You even say he deserves to be a head coach, so why not KC? Cunningham will bring new dimensions to the table than Schottenheimer.

Wow. You have no point. Everyone knew Cunningham was a Shottenheimer clone. You really haven't done your research if you think Saunders wouldn't bring something new to the table. Saunders is more of an in your face coach than Vermeil ever was. Saunders has taken the "Rams" offense, and tailor fitted it to KC's strength's. If you don't think Saunders can adapt, and bring something new, then your warped. Go to a Training Camp once and tell me Saunders is anything like Vermeil on the practice field.

htismaqe
08-02-2005, 01:51 PM
Over 3 years that is all doable with smart drafts.

Which basically means the Chiefs are screwed. Unless Carl Peterson gets hit by a bus.

Bell and Surtain have 3+ years. DJ/Fujita/Fox have 3+ years. Wesley has 3+ years. LJ. Holcombe. Parker. Dante. Crap-ho. Wilson. Allen. Siavvi(??). Welbourne to replace Shields.

Bell may or may not be constantly injured. Holcombe is 30. Welbourn's knee injury has turned out to hobble him quite a bit worse than they thought.

And then you have Fox, Parker, Craphonso, Wilson, and Siavii, all of which are AT BEST unproven and at worst busts.

I realize CP doesn't like AS, but I hope AS gets the job. He isn't Vermeil. He is brilliant at using spare parts and scraps to whip the best defenses in the league. I'd like to keep that mind on our sideline. Gun can stay at DC and purge his shitty defensive coaches.

Yes he is. So was Mike Martz. Or Brian Billick. Or Norv Turner. I realize it's not a popular position, but I've seen plenty from Saunders that suggest (to me) that he's SO GOOD at offense, that he wouldn't be able to see the forest through the trees as a head coach.

htismaqe
08-02-2005, 01:52 PM
Wow. You have no point. Everyone knew Cunningham was a Shottenheimer clone. You really haven't done your research if you think Saunders wouldn't bring something new to the table. Saunders is more of an in your face coach than Vermeil ever was. Saunders has taken the "Rams" offense, and tailor fitted it to KC's strength's. If you don't think Saunders can adapt, and bring something new, then your warped. Go to a Training Camp once and tell me Saunders is anything like Vermeil on the practice field.

Just because you can't understand it, doesn't mean I don't have a point. Trying to suggest I haven't done my "research" says exactly where you stand.

TEX
08-02-2005, 01:53 PM
For every one of your Bill Belichik's I can name 3 Chan Gailey's.

Sure. But the success of 1 Billichik, or the chance of it, rules out anything else. Besides, Saunders is no Gailey - not now - not ever.

TEX
08-02-2005, 01:55 PM
I agree. We are actually in pretty good shape...much to my own surprise.

In the next 3 years we'll need a LT, a #1WR to replace Kennison, a young CB to replace Warfield, a DE to replace Hicks...and maybe, unfortunetly, a DT.

We also, of course, need a QBOTF or we'll have to roll the dice on another "Vet" like Green. Over 3 years that is all doable with smart drafts.

Bell and Surtain have 3+ years. DJ/Fujita/Fox have 3+ years. Wesley has 3+ years. LJ. Holcombe. Parker. Dante. Crap-ho. Wilson. Allen. Siavvi(??). Welbourne to replace Shields.

I realize CP doesn't like AS, but I hope AS gets the job. He isn't Vermeil. He is brilliant at using spare parts and scraps to whip the best defenses in the league. I'd like to keep that mind on our sideline. Gun can stay at DC and purge his shitty defensive coaches.

Exactly what needs to happen IMO.

htismaqe
08-02-2005, 01:57 PM
Sure. But the success of 1 Billichik, or the chance of it, rules out anything else. Besides, Saunders is no Gailey - not now - not ever.

How do you know? If Saunders gives us the chance at "one Belichek" Ferentz or Stoops gives us the CHANCE at "one Jimmy Johnson".

In the end, that's all it is -- a chance.

And for me, I prefer to take that chance with a fresh start.

DaneMcCloud
08-02-2005, 01:58 PM
Htismaqe,

You're missing the point. The reason I listed the other coaches (Fassel, Billick, etc) was to prove YOUR point that other coaches have gone onto become head coaches after leading the league in offensive or defensive categories, yet ARE successful. In addition, the Dallas Cowboys under Landry, Pittburgh under Cowher and Noll, SF under Walsh, Siefert & Mariucci were continously successful because they NEVER changed systems! It was just a matter of plugging in the right player, not rebuilding every few years. The same could be said for Parcell's system & coaches and ESPECIALLY Belichick's system in NE. Great scheme, never changes, plug in players. That's what the Chiefs need to do to continue their offensive success.

In addition, comparing Al Saunder's head coaching past to Gunther's is WEAK. Saunders took over in mid-season, a team that was flailing in the wind and didn't have ANY success for another 6 years after he left. Also, to compare intellectually, Saunders to Gunther is stupid as well. Saunders graduated from Stanford and has a Master's degree in Psychology. I'd be surprised if Gunther even graduated from high school (though he's probably got a GED). Anyway, there's no way in the world that you can compare a coaching job from almost 20 years ago to the coaching job he would do today. I'm sure that like all of us, he's learned quite bit in the past 20 years.

Dane

TRR
08-02-2005, 02:02 PM
Just because you can't understand it, doesn't mean I don't have a point. Trying to suggest I haven't done my "research" says exactly where you stand.

Yea good one. It's real hard to understand, "Saunders will be a head coach in this league...Just not here." And "he's a Vermeil clone, therefore he would be no different than when Gun took over for Shottenheimer."

Get real.

Raiderhader
08-02-2005, 02:04 PM
Sure. But the success of 1 Billichik, or the chance of it, rules out anything else. Besides, Saunders is no Gailey - not now - not ever.


Nope, he's a Martz.

htismaqe
08-02-2005, 02:05 PM
Htismaqe,

You're missing the point. The reason I listed the other coaches (Fassel, Billick, etc) was to prove YOUR point that other coaches have gone onto become head coaches after leading the league in offensive or defensive categories, yet ARE successful. In addition, the Dallas Cowboys under Landry, Pittburgh under Cowher and Noll, SF under Walsh, Siefert & Mariucci were continously successful because they NEVER changed systems! It was just a matter of plugging in the right player, not rebuilding every few years. The same could be said for Parcell's system & coaches and ESPECIALLY Belichick's system in NE. Great scheme, never changes, plug in players. That's what the Chiefs need to do to continue their offensive success.

In addition, comparing Al Saunder's head coaching past to Gunther's is WEAK. Saunders took over in mid-season, a team that was flailing in the wind and didn't have ANY success for another 6 years after he left. Also, to compare intellectually, Saunders to Gunther is stupid as well. Saunders graduated from Stanford and has a Master's degree in Psychology. I'd be surprised if Gunther even graduated from high school (though he's probably got a GED). Anyway, there's no way in the world that you can compare a coaching job from almost 20 years ago to the coaching job he would do today. I'm sure that like all of us, he's learned quite bit in the past 20 years.

Dane

I'm not missing the point. We obviously have different definitions of the word "success". Anything less than the Super Bowl is not success. Sorry.

You're manufacturing continuity when there was none in both Pittsburgh and Dallas. From Landry to Johnson they turned over the entire staff. From Noll to Cowher, they turned over the entire staff. Cowher was a Marty assistant in both Cleveland and KC and never worked with Noll. Johnson came to Dallas from the University of Miami.

In San Francisco, they had continuity from Walsh to Siefert 1) because Walsh stayed on with the team as a consultant and 2) because they had great players that happened to be there during the transition. I don't consider Steve Mariucci "successful" in any definition of the word.

I could care less about IQ, degrees, or any of the rest. Gunther is regarded as one of the best defensive minds in the game. Saunders is regarded as one of the best offensive minds in the game. In general, those types of people make better coordinators than head coaches.

Rausch
08-02-2005, 02:08 PM
Nope, he's a Martz.

Doubtful.

The only person who might have bungled away more talent was Switzer, and even he was able to win a ring with JJ's roster.

Marts is the most knowledgable HC to ever be that terrible...

htismaqe
08-02-2005, 02:08 PM
Yea good one. It's real hard to understand, "Saunders will be a head coach in this league...Just not here." And "he's a Vermeil clone, therefore he would be no different than when Gun took over for Shottenheimer."

Get real.

That would be a great point, IF I had said that.

Of course, I didn't.

the Talking Can
08-02-2005, 02:08 PM
Which basically means the Chiefs are screwed. Unless Carl Peterson gets hit by a bus.



Bell may or may not be constantly injured. Holcombe is 30. Welbourn's knee injury has turned out to hobble him quite a bit worse than they thought.

And then you have Fox, Parker, Craphonso, Wilson, and Siavii, all of which are AT BEST unproven and at worst busts.



Yes he is. So was Mike Martz. Or Brian Billick. Or Norv Turner. I realize it's not a popular position, but I've seen plenty from Saunders that suggest (to me) that he's SO GOOD at offense, that he wouldn't be able to see the forest through the trees as a head coach.

Uh...of course they're unproven, that goes without saying- no team in the league has a suite of starters sitting in the bench..and yes, injuries may happen, again, that's a given...the point is: it is not a given that we have to "start over" or "blow the team up"...I've seen nothing from AS that would suggest he's myopic like Martz...other than people like you comparing him to Martz for no reason I can figure out...would AS leave in his QB after suffering a concussion?...Martz is just an idiot

p.s.

you're the one who pimps Fox anyways...lol

KCTitus
08-02-2005, 02:12 PM
Wow...fretting over 2006 already? No thanks, I'll enjoy this season first.

I think this one may be a record, Parker. ;)

htismaqe
08-02-2005, 02:12 PM
Uh...of course they're unproven, that goes without saying- no team in the league has a suite of starters sitting in the bench..and yes, injuries may happen, again, that's a given...the point is: it is not a given that we have to "start over" or "blow the team up"...I've seen nothing from AS that would suggest he's myopic like Martz...other than people like you comparing him to Martz for no reason I can figure out...would AS leave in his QB after suffering a concussion?...Martz is just an idiot

p.s.

you're the one who pimps Fox anyways...lol

I didn't compare Saunders to Martz in any way other than to suggest both were very good coordinators, considered by most to be the best.

I've never suggested Saunders is anything like Martz. However, that doesn't mean I think he can be successful.

It's not a given that we have to "blow up the team", you're right. However, it's a statistical probability in today's NFL. Look at the examples where continuity has been SUCCESSFUL by hiring a coordinator and now look what those teams had in terms of turnover of PLAYERS. That's not a luxury that exists in this age of parity.

ptlyon
08-02-2005, 02:13 PM
Wow...fretting over 2006 already? No thanks, I'll enjoy this season first.


C'mon Titus - you know this season is already over

KCTitus
08-02-2005, 02:15 PM
C'mon Titus - you know this season is already over

Damn...I musta missed that one! Im slipping...

the Talking Can
08-02-2005, 02:18 PM
I didn't compare Saunders to Martz in any way other than to suggest both were very good coordinators, considered by most to be the best.

I've never suggested Saunders is anything like Martz. However, that doesn't mean I think he can be successful.

It's not a given that we have to "blow up the team", you're right. However, it's a statistical probability in today's NFL. Look at the examples where continuity has been SUCCESSFUL by hiring a coordinator and now look what those teams had in terms of turnover of PLAYERS. That's not a luxury that exists in this age of parity.


ok, I'll GO read a BOOK of statistics and figure out WHY we don't have THE luxury of HIRING a good coach...and MAYBE it will tell me what IT means to randomly CAPITALIZE words... :)

te bottom line is you don't want AS to be the next coach and others do, that's fine...but it has nothing to do with statistics or any other pseudo-rational approaches...

DaneMcCloud
08-02-2005, 02:21 PM
Htismaq,

You've convinced me. I now hope the Chiefs fire everybody, turn over 2/3 of their roster in the next 3 years so that the new head coach (who'd obviously be an inexperienced NFL head coach and who's name is not Al Saunders) can immediately implement his Master Plan of reaching the Super Bowl. Great! Sign me up! I'm already a bandwagon fan for the new Mystery Coach/Savior of the Chiefs! Woo-hoo!

BTW, EVERY team's goal is to win the Super Bowl, not just a few select teams, but EVERY team.

Dane

jspchief
08-02-2005, 02:21 PM
You could certainly argue both sides. Whatever "unknown" we would have with Saunders certainly wouldn't be lessened by hiring a college coach.

The problem I see with with giving Saunders the job is that too often these coords-turned-head-coach try too hard to continue what the team had going, only they don't have the talent to do it.

However many years Green may have left in him, odds are that he will be on the decline soon. Coupled with the loss of two HoF O-lineman, and it seems likely to come sooner rather than later. I don't want Saunders trying to bring in another QB that fits the style because it so rarely works.

Also, like I mentioned in an earlier post, the front office doesn't feel that Saunders (or Gun) are well suited to deal with the influx of youth and inexperience that this team is facing. That's where I think a young coach that focuses on fundamentals, and is more in tune with today's athletes will be more effective.

Brock
08-02-2005, 02:24 PM
BTW, EVERY team's goal is to win the Super Bowl, not just a few select teams, but EVERY team.

Dane

Meet the Bidwells.

htismaqe
08-02-2005, 02:24 PM
ok, I'll GO read a BOOK of statistics and figure out WHY we don't have THE luxury of HIRING a good coach...and MAYBE it will tell me what IT means to randomly CAPITALIZE words... :)

te bottom line is you don't want AS to be the next coach and others do, that's fine...but it has nothing to do with statistics or any other pseudo-rational approaches...

I capitalize words for EMPHASIS. I use caps instead of italics because italics require the use of tags and I'm LAZY. :D

I never said we don't have the luxury of hiring a good coach. I'm saying a great percentage of the coordinators that have gone on to be great head coaches and won Super Bowls did so prior to this day and age of parity and free agency.

It does have to do with statistics -- the majority of great coordinators that go on to be head coaches never succeed. It's not pseudo-rational, it's cold hard fact.

But you are right, it all boils down to preference.

htismaqe
08-02-2005, 02:26 PM
Htismaq,

You've convinced me. I now hope the Chiefs fire everybody, turn over 2/3 of their roster in the next 3 years so that the new head coach (who'd obviously be an inexperienced NFL head coach and who's name is not Al Saunders) can immediately implement his Master Plan of reaching the Super Bowl. Great! Sign me up! I'm already a bandwagon fan for the new Mystery Coach/Savior of the Chiefs! Woo-hoo!

BTW, EVERY team's goal is to win the Super Bowl, not just a few select teams, but EVERY team.

Dane

There's no reason to patronize me, unless you're intent on looking like an ass.

The Chiefs will turn over 2/3 of their roster in the next 3 years whether they, you, or I want them to. That is the nature of today's NFL and free agency. There's no such thing as roster continuity. And with the ages of some of the guys on offense, it's an inevitable reality.

I'm sorry you don't agree with my opinion. It's too bad you couldn't deal with it in a less childish fashion.

htismaqe
08-02-2005, 02:27 PM
You could certainly argue both sides. Whatever "unknown" we would have with Saunders certainly wouldn't be lessened by hiring a college coach.

The problem I see with with giving Saunders the job is that too often these coords-turned-head-coach try too hard to continue what the team had going, only they don't have the talent to do it.

However many years Green may have left in him, odds are that he will be on the decline soon. Coupled with the loss of two HoF O-lineman, and it seems likely to come sooner rather than later. I don't want Saunders trying to bring in another QB that fits the style because it so rarely works.

Also, like I mentioned in an earlier post, the front office doesn't feel that Saunders (or Gun) are well suited to deal with the influx of youth and inexperience that this team is facing. That's where I think a young coach that focuses on fundamentals, and is more in tune with today's athletes will be more effective.

Oh man, are you going to get flamed.

DaneMcCloud
08-02-2005, 02:31 PM
Htismaq,

Come on Dude! I'm just teasing you! Look, we obviously don't agree about the future of the coaching staff, plain and simple. You don't agree with my side of the argument and I don't agree with yours. But I'd like to think that I can post a sarcastic statement with out being viewed as childlike.

Dane

htismaqe
08-02-2005, 02:32 PM
Htismaq,

Come on Dude! I'm just teasing you! Look, we obviously don't agree about the future of the coaching staff, plain and simple. You don't agree with my side of the argument and I don't agree with yours. But I'd like to think that I can post a sarcastic statement with out being viewed as childlike.

Dane

Ah, ok. It's all good.

I think I'll be the 20th person in the last 2 days saying we need a sarcasm smilie.

Sorry about that. :thumb:

htismaqe
08-02-2005, 02:33 PM
By the way, I said childISH, not child-LIKE.

Those are 2 pretty different things. :D

dirk digler
08-02-2005, 02:35 PM
I am in agreement with Parker on this one. CP is in charge so he won't hire Al since they don't get along. The next head coach could/will be:

1. Herm Edwards
2. Bill Cowher
3. Stoops or Ferentz

CP will pick the guy he is most comfortable with and that aint Al.

shakesthecat
08-02-2005, 02:39 PM
I'm gonna be pissed if Raef LaFrentz is hired.

htismaqe
08-02-2005, 02:46 PM
I'm gonna be pissed if Raef LaFrentz is hired.

ROFL

dirk digler
08-02-2005, 02:49 PM
I'm gonna be pissed if Raef LaFrentz is hired.

Me too.

:banghead:

Damn brain fart.

ROFL

milkman
08-02-2005, 08:32 PM
You could certainly argue both sides. Whatever "unknown" we would have with Saunders certainly wouldn't be lessened by hiring a college coach.

The problem I see with with giving Saunders the job is that too often these coords-turned-head-coach try too hard to continue what the team had going, only they don't have the talent to do it.

However many years Green may have left in him, odds are that he will be on the decline soon. Coupled with the loss of two HoF O-lineman, and it seems likely to come sooner rather than later. I don't want Saunders trying to bring in another QB that fits the style because it so rarely works.

Also, like I mentioned in an earlier post, the front office doesn't feel that Saunders (or Gun) are well suited to deal with the influx of youth and inexperience that this team is facing. That's where I think a young coach that focuses on fundamentals, and is more in tune with today's athletes will be more effective.

I recall reading an article about Saunders and his possible future as a HC, and one of the things he mentioned in answering questions was that he learned from his SD experience that rather than trying to continue doing what has worked in the past with different players, he should have, and will in future opportunities, adapt to the players he has.

I think what he has accomplished as the OC actually provides evidence that he learned that lesson well.

Chiefs Pantalones
08-02-2005, 08:35 PM
I recall reading an article about Saunders and his possible future as a HC, and one of the things he mentioned in answering questions was that he learned from his SD experience that rather than trying to continue doing what has worked in the past with different players, he should have, and will in future opportunities, adapt to the players he has.

I think what he has accomplished as the OC actually provides evidence that he learned that lesson well.

I agree.

milkman
08-02-2005, 08:35 PM
I am in agreement with Parker on this one. CP is in charge so he won't hire Al since they don't get along. The next head coach could/will be:

1. Herm Edwards
2. Bill Cowher
3. Stoops or Ferentz

CP will pick the guy he is most comfortable with and that aint Al.

If Herm Edwards is hired as HC, then I will go freakin' ballistic.
That MFer is the Marty clone.

I'm not particularly fond of the Bill Cowher idea, either.

I'm OK with Stoop or Ferentz, but I'm on the Hire Al bandwagon.

Chiefs Pantalones
08-02-2005, 08:45 PM
If Herm Edwards is hired as HC, then I will go freakin' ballistic.
That MFer is the Marty clone.

I'm not particularly fond of the Bill Cowher idea, either.

I'm OK with Stoop or Ferentz, but I'm on the Hire Al bandwagon.

Was I the only one that saw the Marty family tree fall branch by branch last year in the playoffs? And all by the same way...playing low scoring, play not to lose ball. Wild Card game-- Marty tries to grind it out, runs three straight times on 30 yard line...misses field goal, OT, Jets go down and make the not so risky field goal. Next game--Herm Edwards falls after choking the lead away. Next game--Cowher falls--can't get players mentally ready for the challenge of facing defending champs. All of these things ala Marty. They all lost (even Marty himself, duh) in every way that Marty has lost playoff games. I found it very odd and kind of voodoo-ish. They all fell, in every way that Marty has--including the teacher himself. It was histerical. ROFL But maddening at the same time because I've been through that, we've all been through that.

milkman
08-02-2005, 08:48 PM
Was I the only one that saw the Marty family tree fall branch by branch last year in the playoffs? And all by the same way...playing low scoring, play not to lose ball. Wild Card game-- Marty tries to grind it out, runs three straight times on 30 yard line...misses field goal, OT, Jets go down and make the not so risky field goal. Next game--Herm Edwards falls after choking the lead away. Next game--Cowher falls--can't get players mentally ready for the challenge of facing defending champs. All of these things ala Marty. They all lost (even Marty himself, duh) in every way that Marty has lost playoff games. I found it very odd and kind of voodoo-ish. They all fell, in every way that Marty has--including the teacher himself. It was histerical. ROFL But maddening at the same time because I've been through that, we've all been through that.

Yeah, I saw it.

It actually kind of felt like watching The Twilight Zone.

nychief
08-02-2005, 08:51 PM
We are going to be 3-0 going into the Phily game.... lets stop the worry.

Chiefs Pantalones
08-02-2005, 08:53 PM
Yeah, I saw it.

It actually kind of felt like watching The Twilight Zone.

lol, yep.

the Talking Can
08-02-2005, 08:56 PM
If Herm Edwards is hired as HC, then I will go freakin' ballistic.
That MFer is the Marty clone.

I'm not particularly fond of the Bill Cowher idea, either.

I'm OK with Stoop or Ferentz, but I'm on the Hire Al bandwagon.

I'm repeating myself, but "Ditto!"...NO ****ING MARTY SPAWNS....I can not handle seeing the west coast offense back at Arrowhead...If I have to watch Herm's OC dial up a 3 yard swing pass on 3rd down I'll be forced to root for the Royals.

I agree with the premise that CP is not likely to hire AS. But if he hires Edwards it is right back to the ****ing dark ages. I'd much rather roll the dice with a college coach at that point.

I don't watch college ball real closely, but does anyone else think Stoops has a little bit of Butch Davis in him? By which I mean, his bullshit routine works in college but won't cut it with pro players...I don't know why I get a wierd vibe when I see Stoops.

the Talking Can
08-02-2005, 08:57 PM
Was I the only one that saw the Marty family tree fall branch by branch last year in the playoffs? And all by the same way...playing low scoring, play not to lose ball. Wild Card game-- Marty tries to grind it out, runs three straight times on 30 yard line...misses field goal, OT, Jets go down and make the not so risky field goal. Next game--Herm Edwards falls after choking the lead away. Next game--Cowher falls--can't get players mentally ready for the challenge of facing defending champs. All of these things ala Marty. They all lost (even Marty himself, duh) in every way that Marty has lost playoff games. I found it very odd and kind of voodoo-ish. They all fell, in every way that Marty has--including the teacher himself. It was histerical. ROFL But maddening at the same time because I've been through that, we've all been through that.

excellent post...watching Marty succumb to his own weaknesses again was almost sad...but mostly funny...

milkman
08-02-2005, 09:00 PM
excellent post...watching Marty succumb to his own weaknesses again was almost sad...but mostly funny...

And inevitable.

tk13
08-02-2005, 09:01 PM
We are going to be 3-0 going into the Phily game.... lets stop the worry.
If we can beat Oakland and Denver back to back weeks on the road on national TV, you can start printing playoff tickets.

Chiefs Pantalones
08-02-2005, 09:12 PM
If we can beat Oakland and Denver back to back weeks on the road on national TV, you can start printing playoff tickets.

I think we have a great chance in doing so. If our offense can get off to a fast start, I think we could get to 4-0. I think at worst we'll be 3-1, with the sole loss being to Denver, but like I mentioned, if the ball bounces our way, we could get that game.

HemiEd
08-02-2005, 09:15 PM
Start fresh?? That's the DUMBEST idea I've heard in a long, long time. The reason teams like SF, Pittsburgh and Dallas were so successful for so long is that they didn't change their offensive system. The Chiefs finally have a great offense in place - a great system that utilizes the best of every player, whether it be offensive lineman, wide receivers, QB or running back. To completely change and bring in some college coach or another re-hashed old timer would be a waste of time. This team needs offensive continuity if it's going to continue to be successful.

They don't need another Marty Clone (Edwards, Cowher, etc.) or a West Coast offense disciple. Saunders needs to be given a minimum of 2 years as head coach. He's been in the top 5 of every offensive category since he's arrived and yes, any other coach who's ever done something close to that (whether it be on the offensive or defensive side of the ball) has become a head coach. Think Billick, Fassel, Nolan, Marvin Lewis, Dom Capers, etc. I don't want to see Saunders as a head coach anywhere else other than KC.

Dane
~Doesn't believe that interview anyway


I do not think I could agree much more. :hail: :hail: rep

HemiEd
08-02-2005, 09:22 PM
Hiring a HC that wants to hire completely different players to implement his offense/defense would be idiotic.

A lot of the starters on our offense are old but there's also a lot of young depth. Green likely has 2, perhaps 3 years left in him. LJ will step in for Priest, and he's proven he can produce. Gonzo probably has 5 years left. If we can find a way to replace Roaf and Shields with quality starters our offense will still be top 5 in the league.

Our defense is young. All three of our starting LB's are young. Outside of hicks our whole defensive line is young. Knight and Surtain aren't spring chickens but we've got plenty of depth at S and our only real area of concern would be CB.

The only holes this team will have over the next 2 to 3 years will be Offensive line, CB, and WR...


This has turned into a great thread, rep. :clap:

htismaqe
08-03-2005, 07:19 AM
First of all, I have to say -- Holthus has gone from a mediocre interview to BRUTAL. The guy is an idiot savant. He rambled on about his adoption of Iowa high school football teams (1A or 2A only) and the Earlham Cardinals. He talked about Pappajohn's Pizza (of course) and he went on and on about the possibility of Kirk Ferentz coaching both the Hawkeyes and Chiefs. :banghead:

Anyway, he did clarify or expound on a couple of his statements from previous interviews:

1) We have to get off to a good start this year. Yesterday, it was about the assistants looking for other jobs. Today it was the danger that a poor start would cause everybody -- players, coaches, and fans -- knowing that this is Vermeil's last year, to start discussing who the next coach would be instead of worrying about this season. I think from the brew-ha-ha yesterday we had on the very subject, despite the fact that the season hasn't even started, shows that he's probably right.

2) Ferentz being mentioned as a HC candidate. Bob Stoops would be in there too.

The only thing of substance that he talked about was YET ANOTHER back injury, this time to Jason Dunn.

ROYC75
08-03-2005, 07:33 AM
It's just another day

Du du du du du du, it's just another day
Du du du du du du, it's just another day

KChiefs1
08-03-2005, 11:14 AM
I just talked to a Iowa Hawkeye fan & here's exactly what he said about Ferentz leaving:

Ferentz signed an eight year contract last year....he isn't leaving Iowa maybe because him and his wife didn't want to have to have their children move schools again. His contract expires the year their youngest son graduates college....besides he stated his dream job is the Pittsburgh Steelers, which he stated that is the ONLY place he would leave the Hawkeyes.

htismaqe
08-03-2005, 11:21 AM
I just talked to a Iowa Hawkeye fan & here's exactly what he said about Ferentz leaving:

Ferentz signed an eight year contract last year....he isn't leaving Iowa maybe because him and his wife didn't want to have to have their children move schools again. His contract expires the year their youngest son graduates college....besides he stated his dream job is the Pittsburgh Steelers, which he stated that is the ONLY place he would leave the Hawkeyes.

I'm a lifelong Hawkeye fan and this person has one thing right:

He won't leave Iowa for the NFL right now.

The one thing he has wrong:

He won't even leave for the Steelers job right now.

jspchief
08-04-2005, 06:38 AM
Talking LBs mostly.

Said he doesn't think Woods or Fujita make the team, barring a string of injuries at either position.

That's about it. Short interview. Told interesting story about hot Svitek got to America.

the Talking Can
08-04-2005, 06:41 AM
I'd be surprised if Fujita got cut...you'd think he'd be a quality backup.

htismaqe
08-04-2005, 06:58 AM
I was gonna post this when I got on this morning.

I think we should just make one thread and put each daily update in the thread starter. His interviews are short and contain very little good info.

In addition to his tidbits about Woods and Fujita not making the team, he thinks Iowa State will probably win the North. ROFL

Chiefnj
08-04-2005, 07:13 AM
If Fuji didn't make the team, who is K. Bell's backup?

jspchief
08-04-2005, 07:15 AM
If Fuji didn't make the team, who is K. Bell's backup?My guess is Fox.

I wonder if ST play has something to do with it as well. I don't remember Fujita ever making any impression on ST.

ptlyon
08-04-2005, 07:17 AM
In addition to his tidbits about Woods and Fujita not making the team, he thinks Iowa State will probably win the North. ROFL

KEEP F@KING DOUBTING IOWA ST8!!! :cuss:

ROYC75
08-04-2005, 07:19 AM
If Fuji didn't make the team, who is K. Bell's backup?


My guess would be Stills........

ROYC75
08-04-2005, 07:22 AM
My guess is Fox.

I wonder if ST play has something to do with it as well. I don't remember Fujita ever making any impression on ST.

Plus Fuji only has a 1 year contract, nothing big as far as cap hit. Gary Stills contributions to the ST's gives him an edge with ST's.

Mecca
08-04-2005, 07:23 AM
I've been expecting Woods to get cut all along. Now if Fujita is cut that may mean they think Barber is going to be ready sooner rather than later.

ct
08-04-2005, 07:24 AM
My guess would be Stills........

I agree, if Fuj doesn't make the cut, it's because they want Stills on ST bad enough, and perhaps he shows enough as a pass rush specialist from LB to keep him around. And don't forget, Barber probably will still be around on the PUP list, leaving some other OLB expendable.

Saulbadguy
08-04-2005, 07:24 AM
KEEP F@KING DOUBTING IOWA ST8!!! :cuss:
Ok.

Chiefnj
08-04-2005, 07:32 AM
My guess is Fox.

I wonder if ST play has something to do with it as well. I don't remember Fujita ever making any impression on ST.

I thought Fox was playing 1st team on the other side, and now that Johnson has signed he was behind him. Maybe not.

With Bell's propensity for injuries, IMO, it would be a huge mistake to have Stills the backup as opposed to Fuji.

jspchief
08-04-2005, 07:33 AM
I don't think predicting ISU to win the north is much of a stretch. The North is weak and ISU is returning an absurd number of starters from the team that tied for 1st in the North last year. The only competition will be Colorado, and maybe Nebraska if they come together fast.

ROYC75
08-04-2005, 07:40 AM
Doesn't Barber play that position ? Seems like They have barber in mind afterall. I was think'n he would be an injury settlement after week 6 if not healthy.

jiveturkey
08-04-2005, 07:43 AM
Fox, DJ and Fuj play on the same side.

I think that Bell, Still, Caver and Barber play on the other.

Does anyone know where Griffin plays?

jspchief
08-04-2005, 07:43 AM
I thought Fox was playing 1st team on the other side, and now that Johnson has signed he was behind him. Maybe not.

With Bell's propensity for injuries, IMO, it would be a huge mistake to have Stills the backup as opposed to Fuji. It's hard to say if Fox is actually going to be the back up for a specific side, or if he'll just be the #3 LB, since we don't play weak/strong. I'd think that if he was a our third best LB, he could play either side.

I agree on not liking Stills for a back-up. Considering Fujita's price, I think he's probably as good a back-up as you can ask for. I'd rather let Barber go than wait around for him to get healthy. It's not like he's been that stellar when he did play.

jspchief
08-04-2005, 07:48 AM
Does anyone know where Griffin plays?On the practice squad.

TRR
08-04-2005, 07:58 AM
With Fujita's experience and minimal contract, I think it would be foolish to cut him. He's actually one of KC's draft picks that has worked out.

Woods on the other hand, hasn't been practicing again because of the knee he hurt 2 years ago. He has fluid on it. I think it's time for Romey to hang the cleats up.

htismaqe
08-04-2005, 08:02 AM
Hey, jsp, what do you think of just making this the "Mitch Holthus on Des Moines radio" update thread for the rest of camp?

jspchief
08-04-2005, 08:08 AM
Hey, jsp, what do you think of just making this the "Mitch Holthus on Des Moines radio" update thread for the rest of camp?Works for me.

There probably isn't enough content to justify a new thread every day. I actually think KXNO could stand to cut it back to twice a week or so, but Istill like getting a little bit of Chiefs talk every day.

jspchief
08-04-2005, 08:10 AM
With Fujita's experience and minimal contract, I think it would be foolish to cut him. He's actually one of KC's draft picks that has worked out.

Woods on the other hand, hasn't been practicing again because of the knee he hurt 2 years ago. He has fluid on it. I think it's time for Romey to hang the cleats up.I think it goes back to what Vermeil said the other day about having to give special consideration to guys that can play ST. He made it sound like they may be forced to keep guys that they otherwise wouldn't have, just because they can play ST.

TRR
08-04-2005, 08:11 AM
I think it goes back to what Vermeil said the other day about having to give special consideration to guys that can play ST. He made it sound like they may be forced to keep guys that they otherwise wouldn't have, just because they can play ST.

Wondering why Fuj' couldn't play some Special Teams.

htismaqe
08-04-2005, 08:17 AM
Works for me.

There probably isn't enough content to justify a new thread every day. I actually think KXNO could stand to cut it back to twice a week or so, but Istill like getting a little bit of Chiefs talk every day.

OK, I'm gonna edit the thread title a bit, just to reflect that this will be the ongoing Mitch Holthus thread...

jspchief
08-04-2005, 08:17 AM
Wondering why Fuj' couldn't play some Special Teams.So am I. He hasn't done it much in his career, but you'd think if he could start, he'd be capable of playing ST. I don't pretend to know what it takes to excell at ST, but it appears that Fuji may not have it.

I really can't think of another reason why he wouldn't make the team though. I seriously doubt he's flat out getting beat by Stills for the position.

I hope we keep him. I'm a bit of a Fuji homer, and even though I realize his days are probably numbered anyway, I have to think he'd be a very good back up.

ChiTown
08-04-2005, 08:19 AM
Wondering why Fuj' couldn't play some Special Teams.

ST's takes the right mentality. Not every NFL guy has that. I've said this many. many times, but Fuji is a very marginal player, whose overrated foot speed has never translated at football speed. JMHO

TRR
08-04-2005, 08:24 AM
ST's takes the right mentality. Not every NFL guy has that. I've said this many. many times, but Fuji is a very marginal player, whose overrated foot speed has never translated at football speed. JMHO

I don't buy into any of that at all. Fuj likes to hit, and can run. That's all you need to play ST's. Fujita may not be a great OLB, but he's solid. I don't think you throw away Fujita's of the football world.

ChiTown
08-04-2005, 08:27 AM
I don't buy into any of that at all. Fuj likes to hit, and can run. That's all you need to play ST's. Fujita may not be a great OLB, but he's solid. I don't think you throw away Fujita's of the football world.

Like I said, that's just my opinion, but has he ever played on ST's? I don't recall seeing him or hearning his name. Like I said, it's a different mentality, maybe he can adapt in order to save his spot on the team.

No doubt in my mind that he would make a solid backup.

beavis
08-04-2005, 08:28 AM
I don't think predicting ISU to win the north is much of a stretch. The North is weak and ISU is returning an absurd number of starters from the team that tied for 1st in the North last year. The only competition will be Colorado, and maybe Nebraska if they come together fast.
I think it's a total joke. They tied for first in the worst year of the North's existance. How long has McCarney been there now? He's never won jack. They end up third at best.

htismaqe
08-04-2005, 08:31 AM
I think it's a total joke. They tied for first in the worst year of the North's existance. How long has McCarney been there now? He's never won jack. They end up third at best.

I HATE the Sucklones and even I can see that they have a good chance.

Best defensive front 7 in the North. One of the best WR's in the conference. A sophomore QB that played well and started every game as a FRESHMAN.

What teams are going to finish ahead of them?

ZootedGranny
08-04-2005, 08:32 AM
Like I said, that's just my opinion, but has he ever played on ST's? I don't recall seeing him or hearning his name. Like I said, it's a different mentality, maybe he can adapt in order to save his spot on the team.

No doubt in my mind that he would make a solid backup.

I don't know if he played for a stretch of time, but I have seen him several times on STs, most notably a few years ago against the Rams when he lept a defender on a punt to chase down the returner, saving a TD.

htismaqe
08-04-2005, 08:33 AM
Good Lord did I butcher this thread...

TRR
08-04-2005, 08:38 AM
I don't know if he played for a stretch of time, but I have seen him several times on STs, most notably a few years ago against the Rams when he lept a defender on a punt to chase down the returner, saving a TD.

From his KCChiefs.com profile...

Originally made an impact with the club as a valuable special teams contributor who has displayed his athletic ability by chasing down some of the league’s speediest return men

2002 Saw action on Special Teams in all 16 games

He also has several special teams tackles in 2004 mentioned in his bio.

ChiTown
08-04-2005, 08:40 AM
Good Lord did I butcher this thread...

yes

htismaqe
08-04-2005, 08:41 AM
yes

I think I've got it fixed now.

Braincase
08-04-2005, 08:44 AM
I HATE the Sucklones and even I can see that they have a good chance.

Best defensive front 7 in the North. One of the best WR's in the conference. A sophomore QB that played well and started every game as a FRESHMAN.

What teams are going to finish ahead of them?

Don't forget their experienced defensive secondary. :)

htismaqe
08-04-2005, 08:52 AM
Don't forget their experienced defensive secondary. :)

Oh, don't think I don't know that.

But when you have one of the best DT tandems in the Big 12 and both last year's and the year before's Big 12 Defensive Newcomer of the Year in your front 7, that can tend to mask some deficencies in your secondary.

ROYC75
08-04-2005, 09:00 AM
Fuji has played some ST's in the past, but not a regular since being pushed in as a starter.

I've said all along, IMHO, the OLB position is going to be the toughest position to weed out.

Saulbadguy
08-04-2005, 09:02 AM
I HATE the Sucklones and even I can see that they have a good chance.

Best defensive front 7 in the North. One of the best WR's in the conference. A sophomore QB that played well and started every game as a FRESHMAN.

What teams are going to finish ahead of them?
Tempting...very tempting.

ChiTown
08-04-2005, 09:10 AM
Tempting...very tempting.

resist the urge....it's not worth it.

KChiefs1
08-04-2005, 09:10 AM
I'll be driving through Iowa next week....what station outta Des Moines is this on & what time?

htismaqe
08-04-2005, 10:12 AM
I'll be driving through Iowa next week....what station outta Des Moines is this on & what time?

KXNO AM 1460.

htismaqe
08-04-2005, 10:13 AM
Tempting...very tempting.

If it's that tempting, put your money where your mouth is.

Name 2 teams in the North that have, definitively, less questions than Iowa State.

I see Colorado. Who's the other?

Saulbadguy
08-04-2005, 10:15 AM
If it's that tempting, put your money where your mouth is.

Name 2 teams in the North that have, definitively, less questions than Iowa State.

I see Colorado. Who's the other?
Missouri would be a heck of a squad if Pinkel wasn't in charge.

Still, the division belongs to 3 teams. Colorado, Nebraska, and Kansas State. It hasn't been any other way. Those are the 3 teams that will remain in contention for the North title.

ptlyon
08-04-2005, 10:18 AM
Missouri would be a heck of a squad if Pinkel wasn't in charge.

Still, the division belongs to 3 teams. Colorado, Nebraska, and Kansas State. It hasn't been any other way. Those are the 3 teams that will remain in contention for the North title.

:homer:

htismaqe
08-04-2005, 10:22 AM
Missouri would be a heck of a squad if Pinkel wasn't in charge.

Still, the division belongs to 3 teams. Colorado, Nebraska, and Kansas State. It hasn't been any other way. Those are the 3 teams that will remain in contention for the North title.

Wow. That's all I can say.

K-State has just as many question marks as any other team in the North. Automatically annointing them a contender is a bit homerish.

Missouri you already mentioned - Pinkel.

And Nebraska won't recover like you think. That excellent DC they brought in from Wisconsin took basically the same personnel and made a top 10 defense into a bottom 10 defense. Nebraska may finish LAST.

Saulbadguy
08-04-2005, 10:28 AM
Wow. That's all I can say.

K-State has just as many question marks as any other team in the North. Automatically annointing them a contender is a bit homerish.

Missouri you already mentioned - Pinkel.

And Nebraska won't recover like you think. That excellent DC they brought in from Wisconsin took basically the same personnel and made a top 10 defense into a bottom 10 defense. Nebraska may finish LAST.
Whens the last time ISU, Kansas, or Missouri has won the North? How about even contend for the title? Once every few years for ISU/MU. KU, never. Until they prove otherwise, like I said, it will be a 3 team division.

CU IMO has the best chance to repeat. They return most of their starters on offense, and just about all of them on defense. Nebraska is up in the air, but they are bringin in alot of JUCO talent that may fill their needs quickly. Kansas State has done the same thing.

ROYC75
08-04-2005, 10:32 AM
This Chiefs thread has been hijacked by college football talk............

WilliamTheIrish
08-04-2005, 10:35 AM
Whens the last time ISU, Kansas, or Missouri has won the North? How about even contend for the title? Once every few years for ISU/MU. KU, never. Until they prove otherwise, like I said, it will be a 3 team division.

CU IMO has the best chance to repeat. They return most of their starters on offense, and just about all of them on defense. Nebraska is up in the air, but they are bringin in alot of JUCO talent that may fill their needs quickly. Kansas State has done the same thing.

The last time ISU contended for anything Dwayne Crutchfield was their RB.

Saulbadguy
08-04-2005, 10:40 AM
The last time ISU contended for anything Dwayne Crutchfield was their RB.
Just a few years ago people said ISU would contend. The Seneca Wallace days. They did ok, but still got crushed by KSU, NU, and CU for the most part. McCarney isn't a good coach, and ISU has the smallest FB budget in the Big XII. Nothing will change that fact this year. They will remain a mediocre to bad team for awhile.

Kyle401
08-04-2005, 11:10 AM
Meanwhile, back to the NFL.......

Seneca Wallace has been promoted to the #2 QB position for the Seahawks following the departure of Trent Dilfer. He is also fielding punt and kicks in practice.

ct
08-04-2005, 11:40 AM
Meanwhile, back to the NFL.......

Seneca Wallace has been promoted to the #2 QB position for the Seahawks following the departure of Trent Dilfer. He is also fielding punt and kicks in practice.

Very nice segway!

htismaqe
08-04-2005, 11:45 AM
Whens the last time ISU, Kansas, or Missouri has won the North? How about even contend for the title? Once every few years for ISU/MU. KU, never. Until they prove otherwise, like I said, it will be a 3 team division.

CU IMO has the best chance to repeat. They return most of their starters on offense, and just about all of them on defense. Nebraska is up in the air, but they are bringin in alot of JUCO talent that may fill their needs quickly. Kansas State has done the same thing.

ISU shared the North title last year and would have won it outright had they not lost to Mizzou by 3 point in OT.

htismaqe
08-04-2005, 11:46 AM
Just a few years ago people said ISU would contend. The Seneca Wallace days. They did ok, but still got crushed by KSU, NU, and CU for the most part. McCarney isn't a good coach, and ISU has the smallest FB budget in the Big XII. Nothing will change that fact this year. They will remain a mediocre to bad team for awhile.

KSU, NU, and CU aren't the same teams they were then.

ISU could finish 6-5 this year and still have a chance to win the North.

Kyle401
08-04-2005, 12:43 PM
http://ronslog.typepad.com/ronslog/images/segway2x.jpg


Very nice segway!

Thanks!