PDA

View Full Version : NCAA bans American Indian mascot names in the postseason


Saulbadguy
08-05-2005, 10:28 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2125735

NCAA American Indian mascot ban will begin Feb. 1
Associated Press

INDIANAPOLIS -- The NCAA banned the use of American Indian mascots by sports teams during its postseason tournaments, but will not prohibit them otherwise.

The NCAA's Executive Committee decided this week the organization did not have the authority to bar Indian mascots by individual schools, committee chairman Walter Harrison said Friday.

Nicknames or mascots deemed "hostile or abusive" would not be allowed by teams on their uniforms or other clothing beginning with any NCAA tournament after Feb. 1, said Harrison, the University of Hartford's president.

"What each institution decides to do is really its own business" outside NCAA championship events, he said.

Guidelines were not immediately available on which logos and nicknames would be considered "hostile or abusive."

The NCAA two years ago recommended that schools determine for themselves whether the Indian depictions were offensive.

Among the schools to change nicknames in recent years over such concerns were St. John's (from Redmen to Red Storm) and Marquette (from Warriors to Golden Eagles).

The NCAA plans to ban schools using Indian nicknames from hosting postseason events. Harrison said schools with such mascots that have already been selected as tournament sites would be asked to cover any offensive logos.

Such logos also would be prohibited at postseason games on cheerleader and band uniforms starting in 2008.

jiveturkey
08-05-2005, 10:31 AM
Dumb.

Mr. Kotter
08-05-2005, 10:31 AM
Political correctness, once again...run amok. :shake:

:rolleyes:

Rain Man
08-05-2005, 10:33 AM
[Hitler voice] Good. Let's destroy any memory of their existence. [/Hitler voice]

BIG_DADDY
08-05-2005, 10:35 AM
These people have nothing better to do obviously.

ptlyon
08-05-2005, 10:35 AM
www.fightingsioux.com

Engelstad is rolling over in his grave

Mile High Mania
08-05-2005, 10:37 AM
What would you guys choose for an alternate name for KC should this craziness extend into the NFL?

eazyb81
08-05-2005, 10:37 AM
I wonder what nicknames are deemed offensive?

HemiEd
08-05-2005, 10:37 AM
I blame Mothers Against Drunk Drivers (MADD).

Saulbadguy
08-05-2005, 10:37 AM
Even the Seminole tribe said they were HONORED by having Florida State use their name. Good job, NCAA.

Good thing though is the school can keep their names if they want, just can't use it on their uni's in tournaments.

Scaga
08-05-2005, 10:37 AM
This $hit is completely out of hand. :cuss:

ptlyon
08-05-2005, 10:38 AM
What would you guys choose for an alternate name for KC should this craziness extend into the NFL?

The Fightin Whities, of course

Mile High Mania
08-05-2005, 10:38 AM
I wonder what nicknames are deemed offensive?

Well, if "Warriors" was offensive, I can only imagine they are targeting EVERY name with a hint of being related back to an Indian reference.

Bye bye Seminoles...

OmahaChief
08-05-2005, 10:38 AM
My family has very stong ties to the Cherokee Nation with my Greatgradmother being a full blooded Cherokee. I find bans like this to be out of line and really unneccessary. Names like the Braves or Seminoles are not offensive ane really to me neither is the Redskins. At least with these names the American Indian is a thought and not an afterthought like they are on the reservations.

If they really want to be sensitive to the plight of the American Indian they could do more to encourage commerce and provide better schools on reservations. Simply making teams change their name serves no purpose other then to pat themselves on the back for being politically correct. If if were not for casinos many reseervations would be totally destitute. It is said that the Nations are forced to have to make ends meet this way. Many American Indians do assimilate into mainstream society but some want to honor their heritage and choose not to do this.

One of the most depressing places I have ever been was on a reservation and that is in direct opposite of what a one proud people had on their land.

Mile High Mania
08-05-2005, 10:39 AM
The Fightin Whities, of course

That really wouldn't fit for 80% or more of the players.

Chest Rockwell
08-05-2005, 10:39 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2125735
Guidelines were not immediately available on which logos and nicknames would be considered "hostile or abusive."

Of course they weren't. That would require the proponents of this bullshite to actually posses a set of balls and take ownership of this cluster.

Anybody know of any teams this will affect currently as-is?

Other than the Brooklyn University Greasy Wops, the Upper East Side State Greedy Kikes, the Southern Georgia State Runnin' Porch Monkeys and the Central Arkansas State Trailer Park Crackers?

htismaqe
08-05-2005, 10:40 AM
[Hitler voice] Good. Let's destroy any memory of their existence. [/Hitler voice]

Bingo.

Making the Fighting Sioux change their nickname erases yet one more thing that helps people remember that there are even Sioux left in this country.

Scaga
08-05-2005, 10:40 AM
What would you guys choose for an alternate name for KC should this craziness extend into the NFL?

MODS...ban him :cuss:

;)

OmahaChief
08-05-2005, 10:41 AM
Even the Seminole tribe said they were HONORED by having Florida State use their name. Good job, NCAA.

Good thing though is the school can keep their names if they want, just can't use it on their uni's in tournaments.


Yes they are honroed by the greenbacks that are paid to them by FSU to use the name. Of course these are "donations" to the nation but it is significant money they are awarded each year.

cdcox
08-05-2005, 10:41 AM
Inidan Names -> Chiefs -> H. Roe Bartle -> Boy Scouts -> Mic-O-Say

ptlyon
08-05-2005, 10:42 AM
That really wouldn't fit for 80% or more of the players.

HEY! What are you saying about our team? ;)

htismaqe
08-05-2005, 10:42 AM
Of course they weren't. That would require the proponents of this bullshite to actually posses a set of balls and take ownership of this cluster.

Anybody know of any teams this will affect currently as-is?

Other than the Brooklyn University Greasy Wops, the Upper East Side State Greedy Kikes, the Southern Georgia State Runnin' Porch Monkeys and the Central Arkansas State Trailer Park Crackers?

Damn, I guess I'm gonna have to change my FFL team name. I never dreamed the Knoxville Sprint Car Rednecks would be offensive.

ptlyon
08-05-2005, 10:43 AM
My family has very stong ties to the Cherokee Nation with my Greatgradmother being a full blooded Cherokee.

No kidding? I'm part Fakawee. Maybe we're related? :hmmm:

htismaqe
08-05-2005, 10:43 AM
If they really want to be sensitive to the plight of the American Indian they could do more to encourage commerce and provide better schools on reservations. Simply making teams change their name serves no purpose other then to pat themselves on the back for being politically correct.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Chest Rockwell
08-05-2005, 10:44 AM
Damn, I guess I'm gonna have to change my FFL team name. I never dreamed the Knoxville Sprint Car Rednecks would be offensive.

Oh, hell yeah. PETA's on my ass for my team:

The Rocky Mountain Murder Monkeys.

Evidently I'm unfairly projecting an image of violence on the peace-loving creatures.

Kclee
08-05-2005, 10:45 AM
What would you guys choose for an alternate name for KC should this craziness extend into the NFL?


The 'CHEFS' of course. Have you seen that guy on Hells Kitchen? He's mean as hell. And instead of the arrowhead, put a big turkey drumstick dripping with gravey. I think that would strike fear in opponents. Well, until all the chefs in america get together and say that's not PC.

Uatu
08-05-2005, 10:47 AM
Mile High Mania, I know there's an arrowhead and stuff on the logo and the stadium is named after the same, but the Chiefs were actually named after a KC mayor whose nickname was 'the chief'.

I don't think the Chiefs do any dishonor to native American traditions. You can barely see the influence anywhere except the arrowhead logo.

htismaqe
08-05-2005, 10:47 AM
Oh, hell yeah. PETA's on my ass for my team:

The Rocky Mountain Murder Monkeys.

Evidently I'm unfairly projecting an image of violence on the peace-loving creatures.

Monkeys hate violence.

That's why it's much better to euthanize them and dump them illegally in a ditch.

chagrin
08-05-2005, 10:49 AM
The term 'warrior' is abviously hostile AND abusive - what's wrong with you people?!?!?!

ROYC75
08-05-2005, 10:51 AM
What would you guys choose for an alternate name for KC should this craziness extend into the NFL?

Just you wait until the animal rights activist chime in........No damn horse or bronco ever wanted to be a Denver fan. :p

chagrin
08-05-2005, 10:52 AM
My FF team, the South Side Honkey Lords will now be terminated.


I am wonedering why Warrior would be offensive and my college Alma Mater name, the Demons is perfectly fine...?

Chest Rockwell
08-05-2005, 10:52 AM
Monkeys hate violence.

That's why it's much better to euthanize them and dump them illegally in a ditch.

Oh yeah. I was thinking of those flying monkeys from the Wizard of Oz. My bad.

Back to a moderately serious note, how did they come up with this "in the post season" thing? It's ok to offend people during the regular season, but not after that? WTF?

ptlyon
08-05-2005, 10:53 AM
Back to a moderately serious note, how did they come up with this "in the post season" thing? It's ok to offend people during the regular season, but not after that? WTF?

Baby steps to domination

ROYC75
08-05-2005, 10:54 AM
Mile High Mania, I know there's an arrowhead and stuff on the logo and the stadium is named after the same, but the Chiefs were actually named after a KC mayor whose nickname was 'the chief'.

I don't think the Chiefs do any dishonor to native American traditions. You can barely see the influence anywhere except the arrowhead logo.


Good thing Warpaint died then .............. :rolleyes:

htismaqe
08-05-2005, 10:54 AM
Oh yeah. I was thinking of those flying monkeys from the Wizard of Oz. My bad.

Back to a moderately serious note, how did they come up with this "in the post season" thing? It's ok to offend people during the regular season, but not after that? WTF?

Hit em where it hurts.

Postseason = big money. It's the surest way to get "compliance".

Chest Rockwell
08-05-2005, 10:56 AM
Baby steps to domination

Ahhhh...sneaking up on it eh?

BTW, your location offends the Sioux. I think it might be illegal to be from there during the post season. I'd start looking for vacation property.

:)

ptlyon
08-05-2005, 10:58 AM
BTW, your location offends the Sioux. I think it might be illegal to be from there during the post season. I'd start looking for vacation property.

:)

Then I'll just have to move. There is postseason for any particular sport during all parts of the year!

cadmonkey
08-05-2005, 11:03 AM
Pretty ironic that this decision is coming out of INDIANapolis.

Garcia Bronco
08-05-2005, 11:06 AM
The Fightin Whities, of course

the thing that made me laugh about that was white people instead of being offended were like..."Hell yeah...where can I get a t-shirt?" Bitchy ethnic people could learn a lesson from that IMO.

Swanman
08-05-2005, 11:08 AM
Even the Seminole tribe said they were HONORED by having Florida State use their name. Good job, NCAA.

Good thing though is the school can keep their names if they want, just can't use it on their uni's in tournaments.

They did the same exact thing with the Illiniwek tribe a number of years ago concering Chief Illiniwek and they also said they were honored and felt the Chief/name Fighting Illini was in no way offensive.

The problem is you've got other minority groups and stupid white hippies with nothing better to do protesting anything they can think of. For those that have seen PCU, those people are "causeheads".

Rain Man
08-05-2005, 11:12 AM
Since I'm putting minority stats up in the DC forum, I thought I'd add this here:

Counties in the U.S. that are more than 50% Native American or Alaska Native



Geography Percent Native American
Shannon County, South Dakota 93.68%
Wade Hampton Census Area, Alaska 91.70%
Todd County, South Dakota 82.62%
Northwest Arctic Borough, Alaska 82.05%
Bethel Census Area, Alaska 81.36%
Menominee County, Wisconsin 81.13%
Sioux County, North Dakota 80.12%
Buffalo County, South Dakota 79.13%
Apache County, Arizona 76.89%
McKinley County, New Mexico 74.51%
Nome Census Area, Alaska 74.38%
Lake and Peninsula Borough, Alaska 73.07%
Dewey County, South Dakota 71.95%
Ziebach County, South Dakota 71.50%
Rolette County, North Dakota 71.01%
Yukon-Koyukuk Census Area, Alaska 70.63%
Dillingham Census Area, Alaska 69.59%
North Slope Borough, Alaska 68.54%
Corson County, South Dakota 60.03%
Big Horn County, Montana 59.73%
Glacier County, Montana 59.33%
San Juan County, Utah 56.59%
Roosevelt County, Montana 54.96%
Bennett County, South Dakota 51.82%
Mellette County, South Dakota 51.75%
Thurston County, Nebraska 50.22%



I'm not sure of the usefulness of this, other than the general dissemination of knowledge.

Bearcat
08-05-2005, 11:44 AM
Hit em where it hurts.

Postseason = big money. It's the surest way to get "compliance".

...the organization did not have the authority to bar Indian mascots by individual schools...

"What each institution decides to do is really its own business" outside NCAA championship events, he said.



Yep... they just found a loophole. They don't have the authority to ban them fulltime, so they found a way to tell schools to change their name while still following the rules.


"What each institution decides to do is really its own business" outside NCAA championship events, he said.

I wonder what the actual rules are in regards to school colors/logos now.... Can FSU come out in all white jerseys and shorts now?

The cost of changing your name is probably much higher than making postseason jerseys for the teams and band..... in the short & fairly long run anyway...

Sam
08-05-2005, 11:47 AM
What would you guys choose for an alternate name for KC should this craziness extend into the NFL?

NOTHING! No changes. CHIEFS baby!

http://www.kcchiefs.com/media/images/3FF9895CEBB548AC81B3B6691E940104.JPG?0.04336310451703773

Uatu
08-05-2005, 11:47 AM
I think KU should change its mascot, since its depiction is demeaning of homosexual barnyard fowl.

Mile High Mania
08-05-2005, 11:50 AM
Mile High Mania, I know there's an arrowhead and stuff on the logo and the stadium is named after the same, but the Chiefs were actually named after a KC mayor whose nickname was 'the chief'.

I don't think the Chiefs do any dishonor to native American traditions. You can barely see the influence anywhere except the arrowhead logo.

Yeah, I've read that on the board previously, but I bet 50% or less of those that claim to be KC fans know that one.

The perception is everything you said... logo, stadium name, the chant, etc.

Coach
08-05-2005, 11:53 AM
NCAA = Fugging joke.

Sam
08-05-2005, 11:54 AM
Yeah, I've read that on the board previously, but I bet 50% or less of those that claim to be KC fans know that one.



http://www.kcchiefs.com/media/images/0F7B5B3BE9B34701ADD23669FFD1B868.JPG?0.09459504587934175

Dr. Facebook Fever
08-05-2005, 11:58 AM
I wonder how they would feel about a team called the caucasions...

Mile High Mania
08-05-2005, 11:58 AM
http://www.kcchiefs.com/media/images/0F7B5B3BE9B34701ADD23669FFD1B868.JPG?0.09459504587934175

You're obviously in the 50% group that knows...

ENDelt260
08-05-2005, 11:59 AM
Mile High Mania, I know there's an arrowhead and stuff on the logo and the stadium is named after the same, but the Chiefs were actually named after a KC mayor whose nickname was 'the chief'.

I don't think the Chiefs do any dishonor to native American traditions. You can barely see the influence anywhere except the arrowhead logo.
Inidan Names -> Chiefs -> H. Roe Bartle -> Boy Scouts -> Mic-O-Say

I'd suggest Googling some of the words in cdcox's post. You're underinformed.

Ari Chi3fs
08-05-2005, 12:01 PM
we kill their people... we steal their land... we destroy their culture... we feel bad, so we honor their names with sports teams... then we have to stop using the honored names...

When did America start to suck so bad?

Sam
08-05-2005, 12:01 PM
1963
Despite the Texans championship season in ‘62, the Dallas market simply could not sustain two professional football franchises. In early ‘63, Hunt had taken scouting trips to cities such as Atlanta and Miami. Kansas City Mayor H. Roe Bartle learned of Hunt’s interest in a new home for the Texans and extended an invitation for Hunt and Jack Steadman to move the franchise to Mid-America. After the duo visited Kansas City on an incognito basis, an ambitious campaign took shape to deliver on Bartle’s guarantee to Hunt of tripling the season-ticket base the Texans had enjoyed in Dallas. Kansas City’s mayor, nicknamed “Chief,” also promised to add 3,000 permanent seats to Municipal Stadium, as well as 11,000 temporary bleacher seats. Along with Bartle, a number of other prominent Kansas Citians stepped forward to aid in the efforts, putting together more than 1,000 workers to sell season tickets. On May 22nd, Hunt announced he was moving the franchise to Kansas City. Hunt and Stram initially planned on calling the relocated team the Kansas City Texans, but thanks to the insistence of Steadman, the team was officially christened the Chiefs on May 26th, in part to honor the efforts of Bartle. During their inaugural season in Kansas City, the Chiefs charged $7 for box seats and $6 for reserved seats at Municipal Stadium

chagrin
08-05-2005, 12:02 PM
I wonder how they would feel about a team called the caucasions...



How about

The White Ass Whiteys

or

Stupid No Tolerance White People

or

White Men Can't Jump

or

Michael Madsen Can't Dance

or

God I Hate White People

or

Washington W.A.S.P.'s

Demonpenz
08-05-2005, 12:02 PM
i know this has already been said, but i love how they go after the easiest thing to do instead of trying to provide real change. It's sad to see how the diabetes and alcholism have plagued the reservations

chiefqueen
08-05-2005, 12:06 PM
What would you guys choose for an alternate name for KC should this craziness extend into the NFL?

One more time!!!!!!!!!!!!...............the Chiefs are named after H. Roe Bartle who was KCMO Mayor in the 1950's and had the nickname "Big Chief".

:banghead::banghead:

ENDelt260
08-05-2005, 12:09 PM
One more time!!!!!!!!!!!!...............the Chiefs are named after H. Roe Bartle who was KCMO Mayor in the 1950's and had the nickname "Big Chief".

:banghead::banghead:
And do you know why Bartle's nickname was Chief?

I mean, if you're so sick of repeating yourself, surely you've paid attention in the countless prior discussions to learn the other half.

Dr. Facebook Fever
08-05-2005, 12:12 PM
How about

The White Ass Whiteys

or

Stupid No Tolerance White People

or

White Men Can't Jump

or

Michael Madsen Can't Dance

or

God I Hate White People

or

Washington W.A.S.P.'s
I'm sure "we" would be accussed of being elitest. But when we use the name Chiefs or Indians or Braves or Redskins we are somehow being negative toward them.

ENDelt260
08-05-2005, 12:14 PM
I'm sure "we" would be accussed of being elitest. But when we use the name Chiefs or Indians or Braves or Redskins we are somehow being negative toward them.
Redskins is a slur. The other three aren't.

Mile High Mania
08-05-2005, 12:23 PM
we kill their people... we steal their land... we destroy their culture... we feel bad, so we honor their names with sports teams... then we have to stop using the honored names...

When did America start to suck so bad?

Let's not get too high and mighty.. I doubt "honoring" them was the first thing in the minds of those that chose many of the names in question.

Mile High Mania
08-05-2005, 12:25 PM
One more time!!!!!!!!!!!!...............the Chiefs are named after H. Roe Bartle who was KCMO Mayor in the 1950's and had the nickname "Big Chief".

:banghead::banghead:

I understand WHY the name is there... tool. That doesn't take away from the themes of the Chiefs being used. That is why if it reached the NFL level, the Chiefs and Redskins would fall into question.

ENDelt260
08-05-2005, 12:31 PM
I understand WHY the name is there... tool. That doesn't take away from the themes of the Chiefs being used.

Bingo. We don't have pictures of Roe Bartle in a suit and tie on the side of the helmet.

The fact that the team was named in honor of Bartle (or, the fact that Bartle was known as "Chief" because he was the founder of an American Indian themed honor camper program) is irrelevant. Once the name was selected, an American Indian theme was adopted by the franchise. Instead of making bullshit, "Oh, we aren't talking about Indians, we're talking about mayors" arguments, try focusing on a discussion that matters. Like the fact that Chief isn't a deragatory term. A team named Chiefs should be no more offensive to American Indians than the Minnesota Vikings are to those of Norse heritage.

Garcia Bronco
08-05-2005, 12:32 PM
It doesn't really matter anyway...they'll probably change the name of the Chiefs when they move to Cali. :evil:

ENDelt260
08-05-2005, 12:33 PM
It doesn't really matter anyway...they'll probably change the name of the Chiefs when they move to Cali. :evil:
You rotten bastard.

Bearcat
08-05-2005, 12:33 PM
Let's not get too high and mighty.. I doubt "honoring" them was the first thing in the minds of those that chose many of the names in question.

Bartle's tribe was honoring Native Americans, so in that respect, the name Chiefs is, too....

cadmonkey
08-05-2005, 12:34 PM
It doesn't really matter anyway...they'll probably change the name of the Chiefs when they move to Cali. :evil:

Why, the Lakers didn't change their name.

ENDelt260
08-05-2005, 12:35 PM
Why, the Lakers didn't change their name.
I remember once being unable to convince a dude that the Lakers were originally in Minnesota. I guess he thought they were named for the thousands of lakes in the greater LA area.

Bearcat
08-05-2005, 12:36 PM
Why, the Lakers didn't change their name.

Speaking of history, I wonder how many Laker fans actually know why they're the Lakers...

cadmonkey
08-05-2005, 12:37 PM
Speaking of history, I wonder how many Laker fans actually know why they're the Lakers...


F*ck Lakers fans!

J Diddy
08-05-2005, 12:39 PM
It doesn't really matter anyway...they'll probably change the name of the Chiefs when they move to Cali. :evil:

That was a shitty thing to say.

cmh6476
08-05-2005, 01:16 PM
hopefully they'll get rid of OSU's dumbass cowboy next!

Saulbadguy
08-05-2005, 01:26 PM
hopefully they'll get rid of OSU's dumbass cowboy next!
Whats wrong with Pistol Pete?

cmh6476
08-05-2005, 01:28 PM
Whats wrong with Pistol Pete?
he annoys me :|

tk13
08-05-2005, 01:30 PM
Garbage. Thank you Miles Brand.

cosmo20002
08-05-2005, 01:53 PM
we kill their people... we steal their land... we destroy their culture... we feel bad, so we honor their names with sports teams... then we have to stop using the honored names...

When did America start to suck so bad?

General comment to all "offended" by moves to discourage Native American-related names--

Is it PC that we no longer call people "colored" or "negro"? Those were common terms not that long ago. Those who joke that they would be ok with "whitey" references on sports teams miss the point. A group that is a small portion of the population (Native Americans) is probably a bit more sensitive to having their race made into a charicature by the rest of the population.

I'm sure they are really "honored" to be a logo for an athletic team, an honor they share mostly with animals. "Redskin" is an outright slur, even if not commonly used today. Others are offensive to varying degrees, and as noted, the Chiefs don't play up that angle. But is the bucktoothed smiling "Chief Wahoo" of the Cleveland Indians an honor?

As long as you're not offended though...

Sam
08-05-2005, 01:54 PM
he annoys me :|

ROFL Funny avatar.

ENDelt260
08-05-2005, 02:00 PM
As long as you're not offended though...

While I agree that Redskin is a slur and is inappropriate for an NFL team name, a recent survey of American Indians showed that a vast majority weren't offended by it being Washington's mascot.

So, just who is offended?

htismaqe
08-05-2005, 02:03 PM
While I agree that Redskin is a slur and is inappropriate for an NFL team name, a recent survey of American Indians showed that a vast majority weren't offended by it being Washington's mascot.

So, just who is offended?

Liberals.

ENDelt260
08-05-2005, 02:14 PM
Here's a link to the survey I referenced... for those interested.

http://www.annenbergpublicpolicycenter.org/naes/2004_03_redskins_09-24_pr.pdf

Saulbadguy
08-05-2005, 02:15 PM
Liberals.
Miles Brand.

htismaqe
08-05-2005, 02:17 PM
Miles Brand.

Miles Brand is a Liberal. :D

Saulbadguy
08-05-2005, 02:18 PM
Miles Brand is a Liberal. :D
So am I. But he is a poo bag.

htismaqe
08-05-2005, 02:18 PM
So am I. But he is a poo bag.

Saulbadguy is Miles Brand.

Miles Brand is a Liberal.

Bearcat
08-05-2005, 02:22 PM
Their website doesn't say why exactly they changed it from Braves (named because they played in Braves Stadium in Boston) to Redskins, as opposed to keeping Braves or changing it to Indians or Warriors or some other abusively offensive name.

It's weird since the term Redskin wasn't created as a reference to skin color...

cadmonkey
08-05-2005, 02:24 PM
Saulbadguy is Miles Brand.

Miles Brand is a Liberal.


Einhorn is Finkle....Finkle is Einhorn...........Einhorn is a Man.......EINHORN IS A MAN!!!!!! :Lin:

Garcia Bronco
08-05-2005, 02:25 PM
You rotten bastard.


LOL

ENDelt260
08-05-2005, 02:27 PM
Their website doesn't say why exactly they changed it from Braves (named because they played in Braves Stadium in Boston) to Redskins

As I recall from some previous discussion on the topic, they named the team after some Indian who was somehow prominent in the city or affiliated with the team who was affectionately nicknamed Redskin.

Seriously.

redbrian
08-05-2005, 02:27 PM
Fortunately this bs will not spill over into pro-sports.

But this madness is only the tip of the iceberg for the NCAA, who will now have to ban all ethnic and group names.

Say goodbye to the Fighten Irish, Sooners, Celtics, Boilermakers, Trojans….etc.

I see lawsuit written all over this ruling, do these schools not have freedom of speech rights?

htismaqe
08-05-2005, 02:29 PM
Fortunately this bs will not spill over into pro-sports.

But this madness is only the tip of the iceberg for the NCAA, who will now have to ban all ethnic and group names.

Say goodbye to the Fighten Irish, Sooners, Celtics, Boilermakers, Trojans….etc.

I see lawsuit written all over this ruling, do these schools not have freedom of speech rights?

Excuse me, Mr. Brian, but your username is offensive. What do you mean by "red"? It appears to be a slur. Do you hate Native Americans?

Freedom of Speech does not give you the right to hurt someone's feelings.

:D

Saulbadguy
08-05-2005, 02:30 PM
Fortunately this bs will not spill over into pro-sports.

But this madness is only the tip of the iceberg for the NCAA, who will now have to ban all ethnic and group names.

Say goodbye to the Fighten Irish, Sooners, Celtics, Boilermakers, Trojans….etc.

I see lawsuit written all over this ruling, do these schools not have freedom of speech rights?
You're right. Say hello to the Oklahoma Land Thieves, the Notre Dame Touchdown Jesuses, and the Purdue Local 207.

htismaqe
08-05-2005, 02:31 PM
You're right. Say hello to the Oklahoma Land Thieves, the Notre Dame Touchdown Jesuses, and the Purdue Local 207.

Touchdown Jesus is offensive.

Saulbadguy
08-05-2005, 02:33 PM
Touchdown Jesus is offensive.
Yeah. How about Domers? Or BCS Money Thieves?

Mile High Mania
08-05-2005, 02:39 PM
Bartle's tribe was honoring Native Americans, so in that respect, the name Chiefs is, too....

My father is a postal worker that listens to Bob Dylan and CCR... I'm his son, but do none of the 3.

Garcia Bronco
08-05-2005, 02:39 PM
Excuse me, Mr. Brian, but your username is offensive. What do you mean by "red"? It appears to be a slur. Do you hate Native Americans?

Freedom of Speech does not give you the right to hurt someone's feelings.

:D

I always thought it meant brian was a commie.

J Diddy
08-05-2005, 02:40 PM
Fortunately this bs will not spill over into pro-sports.

But this madness is only the tip of the iceberg for the NCAA, who will now have to ban all ethnic and group names.

Say goodbye to the Fighten Irish, Sooners, Celtics, Boilermakers, Trojans….etc.

I see lawsuit written all over this ruling, do these schools not have freedom of speech rights?


It already has. The redskins and Indians have been taking heat for years.

Rain Man
08-05-2005, 02:44 PM
The sportscast in 2024:

"And we had a big day on the gridiron today. The Kansas City Football Players beat the Cincinnati Football Players today 24-20. They now have a two-game lead on the Denver Football Players, who lost badly today, 66-24, to the San Antonio Football Players. In another key matchup, the New York Football Players..."

redbrian
08-05-2005, 02:44 PM
Excuse me, Mr. Brian, but your username is offensive. What do you mean by "red"? It appears to be a slur. Do you hate Native Americans?

Freedom of Speech does not give you the right to hurt someone's feelings.

:D

The red in redbrian is actually a slur on redheads, so I am guilty of insensitivity to a very small minority of people, and I feel really bad about it (even though I along with my 3 kids are members of this group). :p

ptlyon
08-05-2005, 02:44 PM
Say goodbye to the Fighten Irish, Sooners, Celtics, Boilermakers, ...

Nah, they'll never bitch because they know how stupid it would make them look.

Mile High Mania
08-05-2005, 02:45 PM
The sportscast in 2024:

"And we had a big day on the gridiron today. The Kansas City Football Players beat the Cincinnati Football Players today 24-20. They now have a two-game lead on the Denver Football Players, who lost badly today, 66-24, to the San Antonio Football Players. In another key matchup, the New York Football Players..."

C'mon... San Antonio will never have a football team.

Mile High Mania
08-05-2005, 02:46 PM
Nah, they'll never bitch because they know how stupid it would make them look.

What the hell is a 'sooner' anyway?

Saulbadguy
08-05-2005, 02:47 PM
C'mon... San Antonio will never have a football team.
In 2024, it will be the East New York team vs the West New York team. There will be 4 Divisions. New York, Washington DC, New Jersey, and the rest of them.

ptlyon
08-05-2005, 02:47 PM
What the hell is a 'sooner' anyway?

I think it's slang for "Husker beater"

Saulbadguy
08-05-2005, 02:47 PM
What the hell is a 'sooner' anyway?
Land thief.

"SOONER." Sooner is the name first applied about six months after the Land Run of 1889 to people who entered the Oklahoma District (Unassigned Lands) before the designated time. The term derived from a section in the Indian Appropriation Act of March 2, 1889, which became known as the "sooner clause." It stated that no person should be permitted to enter upon and occupy the land before the time designated in the president's opening proclamation and that anyone who violated the provision would be denied a right to the land.
Illegal claimants were initially called "moonshiners," because they entered the area "by the light of the moon." Sooners or moonshiners hid out in brush or ravines, then suddenly appeared to stake a claim after the run started, giving them clear advantage over law-abiding settlers who made the run from the borders.
So-called "legal sooners" had permission to enter before the designated time but nonetheless had the same unfair advantage. Legal sooners included employees of the government (deputy marshals, revenue agents, mail carriers, land officials) or railroad company (trackmen, section hands) or those with special permits (Indian agents, teamsters, traders).
As might be expected, the clamor against sooners resulted in numerous contests and appeals to the General Land Office and in unclear title to some claims for many years. The United States Congress gave the Department of the Interior the ultimate power to make final determination in the contests. The complex case against sooners, legal or otherwise, was first elucidated in Townsite of Kingfisher v. Wood and Fossett (1890) and later in Smith v. Townsend (1893).
The problems with sooners increased with each successive land run. In the 1895 opening of the Kickapoo Reserve, some officials estimated that sooners filed on approximately 50 percent of the available tracts. The government eventually overcame the problem of illegal entry by using methods such as a lottery and sealed bids to open former Indian reservations.
As might be expected, the early legal settlers of Oklahoma Territory held a very low opinion of sooners. That began to change by 1908 when the University of Oklahoma adopted the name for its football team. By the 1920s, the term no longer carried a negative connotation, and Oklahomans adopted the nickname as a badge of pride and progressivism. Although apparently never officially designated as such by statute or resolution, Oklahoma has since been known as the Sooner State.

htismaqe
08-05-2005, 02:48 PM
The sportscast in 2024:

"And we had a big day on the gridiron today. The Kansas City Football Players beat the Cincinnati Football Players today 24-20. They now have a two-game lead on the Denver Football Players, who lost badly today, 66-24, to the San Antonio Football Players. In another key matchup, the New York Football Players..."

Never happen.

The term "football" is offensive to amputees.

htismaqe
08-05-2005, 02:48 PM
I always thought it meant brian was a commie.

If that were the case, he would be "pinkbrian".

cosmo20002
08-05-2005, 02:50 PM
While I agree that Redskin is a slur and is inappropriate for an NFL team name, a recent survey of American Indians showed that a vast majority weren't offended by it being Washington's mascot.

So, just who is offended?

What would be a good enough number? Common sense says you don't use a race of people as a mascot or logo. Steps to discourage isn't "PC", its common sense. I guess not using the term 'colored' is just PC. As I said, this "honor" is largely reserved for animals and and quirky characters to sell hats (see minor league baseball). It must be quite an honor to be in that group. You agree Redskin is inappropriate, so why dismiss that other names are as well?

ENDelt260
08-05-2005, 02:51 PM
If that were the case, he would be "pinkbrian".Just cause he's a communist doesn't mean he's gay.

Does it?

redbrian
08-05-2005, 02:51 PM
Nah, they'll never bitch because they know how stupid it would make them look.

It will be the sensitivity police who go after these schools, you know the squawking hippies who will be on the warpath to stamp all insensitive acts on humanity, and other living things, and probably a few dead things (they have feelings to you know).

Bearcat
08-05-2005, 02:52 PM
The reason that the Washington Redskins are called the Redskins is that they were originally in Boston and first played at Fenway Park. Since the other team playing at Fenway Park was called the Red Sox, and because of the Boston Tea Party with the Sons of Liberty dressing up like Indians, they decided to call the team the "Boston Redskins".

So the name itself is historic and refers back to their roots in Boston and to a significant historical event which is why it should remain as the Redskins. The Redskin logo isn't some crazy looking logo like Chief Wahoo of the Cleveland Indians, it is a very dignified looking Indian.

This is from a search on Yahoo, that brought up their message boards... the reference to the Red Sox and not the Braves has me worried that this might not be the most legit source... So, they're named after white people dressing up like Indians :shrug:


My father is a postal worker that listens to Bob Dylan and CCR... I'm his son, but do none of the 3.

Ignoring that this is... wow... um, there was a little bit of an assumption that those who named the Chiefs the Chiefs knew the history behind the nickname, and there was perhaps a feeling of "carrying on the legacy".

I wasn't there, nor do I shed a tear for American Indians when I do the tomahawk chop, but maybe we all should. Maybe we should.

ENDelt260
08-05-2005, 02:54 PM
Common sense says you don't use a race of people as a mascot or logo.

Huh? Bullshit.

You agree Redskin is inappropriate, so why dismiss that other names are as well?

Because I disagree with your BS "common sense" assertion. Redskin is inappropriate because it's a slur.

ENDelt260
08-05-2005, 02:56 PM
This is from a search on Yahoo, that brought up their message boards... the reference to the Red Sox and not the Braves has me worried that this might not be the most legit source... So, they're named after white people dressing up like Indians :shrug:

That's the most ridiculous cracked out explanation I've ever read.

I'm pretty sure the half-explanation I gave earlier came from a reputable source at the time. Unfortunately I've been unable to locate it at this time.

Bearcat
08-05-2005, 03:05 PM
That's the most ridiculous cracked out explanation I've ever read.

I'm pretty sure the half-explanation I gave earlier came from a reputable source at the time. Unfortunately I've been unable to locate it at this time.

Oh, come on... it's from a message board that has other enlightening topics such as "Washington Redskins suck the big one!!!", "Giants Rule", and "Why Daniel Snyder Licks Balls".

From one of the real sources I looked at, it said it was to seperate the baseball Boston Braves & football Boston Braves... but your reason why the actual name was selected is good enough for me.

ENDelt260
08-05-2005, 03:07 PM
Oh, come on... it's from a message board that has other enlightening topics such as "Washington Redskins suck the big one!!!", "Giants Rule", and "Why Daniel Snyder Licks Balls".

From one of the real sources I looked at, it said it was to seperate the baseball Boston Braves & football Boston Braves... but your reason why the actual name was selected is good enough for me.
It is kinda weird how it gets glossed over in the history.

"And then we switched stadiums, so we became the Redskins."

Whoa.. what?

Mile High Mania
08-05-2005, 03:12 PM
I wasn't there, nor do I shed a tear for American Indians when I do the tomahawk chop, but maybe we all should. Maybe we should.

Maybe we should all hold hands and sing.

htismaqe
08-05-2005, 03:12 PM
Maybe we should all hold hands and sing.

****, you're queer.

:D

Bearcat
08-05-2005, 03:14 PM
What would be a good enough number? Common sense says you don't use a race of people as a mascot or logo. Steps to discourage isn't "PC", its common sense. I guess not using the term 'colored' is just PC. As I said, this "honor" is largely reserved for animals and and quirky characters to sell hats (see minor league baseball). It must be quite an honor to be in that group. You agree Redskin is inappropriate, so why dismiss that other names are as well?

As stated before, there's no line between "We're offending some American Indians" and "We're offending some Irish" and "We're offending some Ichabods".

I think it's common sense to take the name of a sports team for what it's worth. After all, it's just a sports mascot, right?

Chest Rockwell
08-05-2005, 03:14 PM
Maybe we should all hold hands and sing.

That might fly at Incestco, but we don't cotton to that gay stuff 'round these parts, savvy?

:D

Bearcat
08-05-2005, 03:15 PM
Maybe we should all hold hands and sing.

We sing "Home of the CHIEFS", clearly recognizing that this great land was once the home to Native Americans.



:D

Sam
08-05-2005, 03:17 PM
We sing "Home of the CHIEFS", clearly recognizing that this great land was once the home to Native Americans.


:D


Oh horse hockey, it's home of the KC Chiefs. To get to the opposing teams.

Ari Chi3fs
08-05-2005, 03:18 PM
I think they should do away with "fighting Irish"

because Im part Irish, and I dont like to fight.

htismaqe
08-05-2005, 03:19 PM
Oh horse hockey, it's home of the KC Chiefs. To get to the opposing teams.

Damn, we STILL need a sarcasm smilie.

Bearcat
08-05-2005, 03:19 PM
Oh horse hockey, it's home of the KC Chiefs. To get to the opposing teams.


Maybe that's why you do it ROFL

htismaqe
08-05-2005, 03:19 PM
Damn, we STILL need a sarcasm smilie.

Why do you think Hawaii stopped calling themselves the Fighting Rainbows? :D

ptlyon
08-05-2005, 03:21 PM
I think they should do away with "fighting Irish"

because Im part Irish, and I dont like to fight.

Impossible.

Mile High Mania
08-05-2005, 03:21 PM
****, you're queer.

:D

Sir, that post is offensive to asteriks everywhere.

htismaqe
08-05-2005, 03:21 PM
:D

ENDelt260
08-05-2005, 03:22 PM
Why do you think Hawaii stopped calling themselves the Fighting Rainbows? :D
They were tired of the fans doing the "Slap Like a Girl" when rallying?

Bearcat
08-05-2005, 03:22 PM
Damn, we STILL need a sarcasm smilie.

I didn't even think it needed " :D " Was it really that subtle, or do all of my other posts potray me as a complete moron?



BTW, that was rhetorical.

HemiEd
08-05-2005, 03:28 PM
Maybe we should all hold hands and sing.


They still do the wave at Lambeau, how about Invesco? The Hershey Trots?

Chest Rockwell
08-05-2005, 03:28 PM
I think they should do away with "fighting Irish"

because Im part Irish, and I dont like to fight.

Sober.

I fixed your post.

htismaqe
08-05-2005, 03:28 PM
They were tired of the fans doing the "Slap Like a Girl" when rallying?

Sam
08-05-2005, 03:30 PM
I didn't even think it needed " :D " Was it really that subtle, or do all of my other posts potray me as a complete moron?



BTW, that was rhetorical.

Didn't see ROFL before posting.

Damn, :banghead: will I never learn to say the right thing...

Raiderhader
08-05-2005, 03:32 PM
So will fans wearing their team logos be allowed to enter the stadiums, or turned away at the gate?


What a load of bullshit.

KCTitus
08-05-2005, 03:35 PM
Damn, :banghead: will I never learn to say the right thing...

No worries, Sam, Denise has that record all sewn up...20k posts and has yet to get one right yet.

Raiderhader
08-05-2005, 03:37 PM
What would be a good enough number? Common sense says you don't use a race of people as a mascot or logo. Steps to discourage isn't "PC", its common sense. I guess not using the term 'colored' is just PC. As I said, this "honor" is largely reserved for animals and and quirky characters to sell hats (see minor league baseball). It must be quite an honor to be in that group. You agree Redskin is inappropriate, so why dismiss that other names are as well?


http://funwavs.com/wavfile.php?quote=1665&sound=216

cosmo20002
08-05-2005, 04:18 PM
As stated before, there's no line between "We're offending some American Indians" and "We're offending some Irish" and "We're offending some Ichabods".

I think it's common sense to take the name of a sports team for what it's worth. After all, it's just a sports mascot, right?


Here's a line--Notre Dame was founded by Irish, and they NAMED THEMSELVES. If someone's offended by that, I suppose they should take it up with the school. If an Indian college wants to name itself something related to its heritage, that's up to them. But I don't think its the place of a college or professional team to claim a race of people as its mascot. There's a difference.

Saulbadguy
08-05-2005, 04:26 PM
Football will NOT be affected by this ruling

At least Division 1 NCAA FB. They do not have a tournament, and this ruling only affects NCAA sanctioned post-season tournaments.

ENDelt260
08-05-2005, 04:50 PM
Here's a line--Notre Dame was founded by Irish, and they NAMED THEMSELVES. If someone's offended by that, I suppose they should take it up with the school. If an Indian college wants to name itself something related to its heritage, that's up to them. But I don't think its the place of a college or professional team to claim a race of people as its mascot. There's a difference.
Wait... what happened to...

Common sense says you don't use a race of people as a mascot or logo.

Now common sense tells us that you don't name a team after a race unless it's your team and you are a part of said race?

I'm to assume that you still object to the Minnesota Vikings using this "common sense"?

Further, must all fans of Notre Dame be Irish? All players? Would it be demeaning for a non-Irishman to wear a Fighting Irish t-shirt? Or, is it okay because the Irish said so?

If founder's identity and intent is all that matters, you must be the person that the "the Chiefs are named for Roe Bartle" people are talking to.

Why is it the Irish are allowed to honor themselves, but a third party, say the state of Florida, is not allowed to pay homage to a local tribe?

Bearcat
08-05-2005, 04:57 PM
Here's a line--Notre Dame was founded by Irish, and they NAMED THEMSELVES. If someone's offended by that, I suppose they should take it up with the school. If an Indian college wants to name itself something related to its heritage, that's up to them. But I don't think its the place of a college or professional team to claim a race of people as its mascot. There's a difference.

A lot of it is based on a group, not a race of people.... there's not that big of a difference between a non-Cowboy dressing up like one and a non-Illini dressing up like one.... they're both just portraying a group of people that is associated with their respective location.

If a group is okay with that, which it has been shown on this thread that some tribes are okay with it, does it matter if it's tribal owned?

cosmo20002
08-05-2005, 05:41 PM
Wait... what happened to...



Now common sense tells us that you don't name a team after a race unless it's your team and you are a part of said race?

I'm to assume that you still object to the Minnesota Vikings using this "common sense"?

Further, must all fans of Notre Dame be Irish? All players? Would it be demeaning for a non-Irishman to wear a Fighting Irish t-shirt? Or, is it okay because the Irish said so?

If founder's identity and intent is all that matters, you must be the person that the "the Chiefs are named for Roe Bartle" people are talking to.

Why is it the Irish are allowed to honor themselves, but a third party, say the state of Florida, is not allowed to pay homage to a local tribe?

Its not a good idea in any regard, but there is a difference between a group bestowing a name upon itself and someone else doing it. Your last question answers itself.

I don't think intent matters at all, its basically irrelevant. Afterwards, no one knows the intent, all you are left with is a name like Redskins.

I think the Roe Bartle/Chiefs thing is ridiculous. There might be some sort of coincidence with the name, but I highly doubt that the team was directly named for him. If it was, its not much of an honor, seeing that 99% of the people aren't aware of it. The Chiefs are a minor offender. "Chief" isn't necesarily Indian-related, and they don't play up the image.

I'm not saying all of this is a crime. Its just ridiculous to say what other people should and shouldn't be offended by. If you were part of a small, essentially oppressed population, you might feel different about your race being held up as a charicature or a mascot.

cosmo20002
08-05-2005, 05:44 PM
A lot of it is based on a group, not a race of people.... there's not that big of a difference between a non-Cowboy dressing up like one and a non-Illini dressing up like one.... they're both just portraying a group of people that is associated with their respective location.

If a group is okay with that, which it has been shown on this thread that some tribes are okay with it, does it matter if it's tribal owned?

A "Cowboy" is the same as a race of people? OK...
How has it "been shown on this thread that some tribes are ok with it"? Because someone said so?

ENDelt260
08-05-2005, 05:49 PM
Its not a good idea in any regard, but there is a difference between a group bestowing a name upon itself and someone else doing it. Your last question answers itself.

No, it doesn't. Why should a state not be allowed to pay homage to a local tribe? Are they to pretend the tribe didn't exist at all, so as to avoid risk of offense?

I highly doubt that the team was directly named for him.

Doubt it all you want. It's fact.

Its just ridiculous to say what other people should and shouldn't be offended by.

Who has tried to dictate what others can be offended by? Heck, I provided data that showed that over 90% of Indians *weren't* offended by the Washington Redskins, a team name that's an outright slur.

ENDelt260
08-05-2005, 05:50 PM
A "Cowboy" is the same as a race of people? OK...
How has it "been shown on this thread that some tribes are ok with it"? Because someone said so?
Yes. Key being that "someone" was a member of the tribe.

ENDelt260
08-05-2005, 06:02 PM
I don't think intent matters at all, its basically irrelevant. Afterwards, no one knows the intent, all you are left with is a name like Redskins.

...or Fighting Irish.

ENDelt260
08-05-2005, 06:04 PM
I still must be overlooking your judgement on the Minnesota Vikings. Is their name offensive or no? Or, are you still doing research to determine if they were actually founded by descendants of Vikings to make your determination?

Bearcat
08-05-2005, 06:09 PM
A "Cowboy" is the same as a race of people? OK...


Um, no :spock:

A lot of it is based on a group, not a race of people

they're both just portraying a group of people that is associated with their respective location.

"Illini" is a group of Indians that settled assumingly around that region... same for Sioux, Seminole, etc. Those names aren't races. They are groups. Just like Cowboys, Patriots, etc; aren't races. They are groups.


How has it "been shown on this thread that some tribes are ok with it"? Because someone said so?

That, and the references to articles stating surveys that say tribes are okay with it... 100%? Probably not... but we have plenty of issues that aren't 100% not offensive.

keg in kc
08-05-2005, 06:24 PM
I'm part Cherokee FWIW. Not that I really think it matters.

Redskins I don't like; I think blatant ethnic slurs should be out. I don't think using Redskins is any better than, say, the Newark Negroes or the Saskatoon Spics or the Iowa Cowtipping Potheads.

I've never considered "Chiefs" to be a slur. Same for Seminoles or Illini, etc. I believe team names like that to be an honor more than an insult.

I do think mascots need to be policed. Make sure they show respect for a culture or an ethnic group, and not ridicule.

But, all-in-all, I won't lose any sleep over any of it until they name a team the "Whisky-sucking Smallpoxed Syphilids."

That would be taking it too far.

Bearcat
08-05-2005, 06:35 PM
I still must be overlooking your judgement on the Minnesota Vikings. Is their name offensive or no? Or, are you still doing research to determine if they were actually founded by descendants of Vikings to make your determination?

Heh... "For 50 years the tribe of [insert tribe] has been highly offended of the [school's mascot] that has been their mascot for 120 years. However, in a bizarre turn of events, old documents have been found showing that the founder of the school was part of [tribe]."

Says the head of the tribe, who has led the fight for the banning of the mascot: "Oh, in that case, I'm cool with it"

OldTownChief
08-05-2005, 06:36 PM
"Chief" isn't necesarily Indian-related, and they don't play up the image.




http://home.earthlink.net/~eglweb/cpstuff/NFLLogos/kc.gif

And my personnal favorite.
http://home.earthlink.net/~eglweb/cpstuff/warpaint.jpg

Hydrae
08-05-2005, 06:36 PM
Its not a good idea in any regard, but there is a difference between a group bestowing a name upon itself and someone else doing it. Your last question answers itself.

I don't think intent matters at all, its basically irrelevant. Afterwards, no one knows the intent, all you are left with is a name like Redskins.

I think the Roe Bartle/Chiefs thing is ridiculous. There might be some sort of coincidence with the name, but I highly doubt that the team was directly named for him. If it was, its not much of an honor, seeing that 99% of the people aren't aware of it. The Chiefs are a minor offender. "Chief" isn't necesarily Indian-related, and they don't play up the image.

I'm not saying all of this is a crime. Its just ridiculous to say what other people should and shouldn't be offended by. If you were part of a small, essentially oppressed population, you might feel different about your race being held up as a charicature or a mascot.


***UN-PC response below***

I have felt for a long time that Native Americans are the best treated conquered people in history. I am sorry, I have little sympathy for them at this late date. They are still getting compensation for things that happened 100+ years ago before any of the current members of this group were even born. I am not aware of any other conquered people getting reparations a century after the fact.

Prove that the names were done with the intention of being offensive or even belittling and maybe we can talk. In the meantime, please stop assuming what the namers of these teams meant or where thinking. You have no idea that their intentions were malicious any more than we can prove they were benign. However, in this country you are innocent until proven guilty. I think that should relate to this situation as well.

htismaqe
08-05-2005, 06:47 PM
"Illini" is a group of Indians that settled assumingly around that region... same for Sioux, Seminole, etc. Those names aren't races. They are groups. Just like Cowboys, Patriots, etc; aren't races. They are groups.


To be absolutely specific, they are tribes -- geo-political social groups. Very similar to the city-states of ancient Greece.

Delano
08-05-2005, 06:56 PM
Since I'm putting minority stats up in the DC forum, I thought I'd add this here:

Counties in the U.S. that are more than 50% Native American or Alaska Native



Geography Percent Native American
Shannon County, South Dakota 93.68%
...


I'm not sure of the usefulness of this, other than the general dissemination of knowledge.


I didn't know that Shannon County had the highest percentage. My uncle is actually the sheriff in that county. Wow, some of the stories I hear from him out of that area are insane. Those Natives treat the white ranchers like shit. It's also interesting to hear how the tribal government bullies anyone that isn't a member of the tribe. My uncle and those clowns butt heads daily.

I also hunt whitetail in that county and it's amazing how when we try to spend money in their towns (other than in the casino), they do everything to prevent it. God forbid you get a flat tire in the middle of nowhere. Lazy **** mechanics won't come out to help you.

Delano
08-05-2005, 06:58 PM
***UN-PC response below***

I have felt for a long time that Native Americans are the best treated conquered people in history. I am sorry, I have little sympathy for them at this late date. They are still getting compensation for things that happened 100+ years ago before any of the current members of this group were even born. I am not aware of any other conquered people getting reparations a century after the fact.

Prove that the names were done with the intention of being offensive or even belittling and maybe we can talk. In the meantime, please stop assuming what the namers of these teams meant or where thinking. You have no idea that their intentions were malicious any more than we can prove they were benign. However, in this country you are innocent until proven guilty. I think that should relate to this situation as well.


Well said. It's frustrating to see how often times they even waste the compensation they get from the government.

jspchief
08-05-2005, 07:27 PM
***UN-PC response below***

I have felt for a long time that Native Americans are the best treated conquered people in history. I am sorry, I have little sympathy for them at this late date. They are still getting compensation for things that happened 100+ years ago before any of the current members of this group were even born. I am not aware of any other conquered people getting reparations a century after the fact.

Prove that the names were done with the intention of being offensive or even belittling and maybe we can talk. In the meantime, please stop assuming what the namers of these teams meant or where thinking. You have no idea that their intentions were malicious any more than we can prove they were benign. However, in this country you are innocent until proven guilty. I think that should relate to this situation as well.That's pretty much my feeling. Good post.

Zebedee DuBois
08-05-2005, 08:35 PM
IF I get the gist of this thread correctly, Team names that refer to groups of people are gradually being phased out - starting with the more offensive names like Redskins, but extending to occupational names like Steelers and Packers. Some are indicating that this movement will be extended to animals like the oppressed Dolphins and Cardinals, not to mention the nearly exterminated Buffalos and Bears.

The problem remains as to what teams will be called. Team name should evoke some fear or respect. The name should give opponents pause, and the feeling that they will not be easily defeated.

Since, human and animal references are no longer acceptable, I believe that leaves us with concepts, ideas, and situations as candidtates.
Here are a few trial names.

Names for School Teams:
The Difficult Story Problems
Trigonometry
The Extended Essays
The Doctoral Thesis

Names for Non School Teams:
The Visiting In-Laws
The Impending Deadline
The Performance Reviews
The April Fifteenths
The Audits
The First Time Mortgage Applications
The Neighbors Vacation Slideshow




Really, the possibilities are endless.

ENDelt260
08-05-2005, 08:38 PM
Can we have non-animal/non-human entities such as The Enflamed Hemmorhoids?

Zebedee DuBois
08-05-2005, 08:46 PM
No, hemmoroids are a human condition.



Oh.. I suppose animals could have hemmoroids too....but you don't hear them complain.

ENDelt260
08-05-2005, 08:48 PM
No, hemmoroids are a human condition.



Oh.. I suppose animals could have hemmoroids too....but you don't hear them complain.
They just kinda drag their ass across the carpet.

ENDelt260
08-05-2005, 08:48 PM
How are visiting in-laws not a human condition?

Zebedee DuBois
08-05-2005, 08:52 PM
No...I am pretty sure it is inhumane.