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Mecca
08-08-2005, 03:10 PM
Let's wager how long before KK says anything about downtown baseball. I put the over under on 30 seconds.

Also how long before he bashes the Chiefs for god forbid wanting to make their stadium better.

tyton75
08-08-2005, 03:19 PM
I, personally, want a downtown stadium for the Royals and I would like the Chiefs to gain ownership of Arrowhead(which I know will never happen), but KK harps on and I agree with him... even though he tends to rerun himself over and over and over..

BigRedChief
08-08-2005, 03:22 PM
Hey I say give the whole Truman Complex to Lamar. Turn Royals stadium into a concert venue. Lamar uses that money to redo Arrowhead. Royals get a new downtown BB stadium.

|Zach|
08-08-2005, 03:26 PM
Anything from the show?

DaneMcCloud
08-08-2005, 03:27 PM
I don't live in Kansas or Missouri, but if I were mayor, there's no way in Hell I'd spend a penny on the Royals until there's a true salary cap. David Glass has refused to spend any money on this team and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to hear the word "Contraction" again in the next few years. The Royals are the laughing stock of the professional sports world and I think it would be absolutely foolish to spend any money in their support, unless the team where sold to a Mark Cuban type owner (which isn't likely to happen).

That being said, the Mayor should do whatever's necessary to make the NFL and Chiefs happy. If they left KC, I don't think it would be a situation like Cleveland where they'd replace them in 5 years. I think they'd be gone for 15-20 because there's no reason to expand to 34 teams.

Dane

penguinz
08-08-2005, 03:28 PM
KK is nothing but a conspiracy theorist.

vailpass
08-08-2005, 03:29 PM
Fred Hoyberg?

ChiefsFire
08-08-2005, 03:30 PM
KK wants her wearing nothing but a smile

Mecca
08-08-2005, 03:31 PM
The basis of what I got so far is, they don't like the Chiefs going to Wisconsin for training camp. The Chiefs want 312 million dollars for Arrowhead and that's way to much money.

And now he's moved onto talking about the Royals and how they should hold up the town to get what they want.

Mr. Laz
08-08-2005, 04:13 PM
Let's wager how long before KK says anything about downtown baseball. I put the over under on 30 seconds.

Also how long before he bashes the Chiefs for god forbid wanting to make their stadium better.
someone is mildly obsessed with KK

KC Kings
08-08-2005, 04:20 PM
Hey I say give the whole Truman Complex to Lamar. Turn Royals stadium into a concert venue. Lamar uses that money to redo Arrowhead. Royals get a new downtown BB stadium.

Forget a new downtown BB stadium, let them play in the Sprint Arena. Our corner outfielders would finally be able to put up some decent HR numbers, and we would be able to sell out just about every game.

Mecca
08-08-2005, 04:20 PM
someone is mildly obsessed with KK

I just listen to, to much sports radio, and he tends to grate on me so I get annoyed. Of course then again I could listen to 610 and be annoyed for an entire day.

Mr. Laz
08-08-2005, 04:23 PM
I just listen to, to much sports radio, and he tends to grate on me so I get annoyed. Of course then again I could listen to 610 and be annoyed for an entire day.

no biggie ... thought i saw like 3 post just today about him from you. :shrug:

beavis
08-08-2005, 04:50 PM
David Glass has refused to spend any money on this team and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to hear the word "Contraction" again in the next few years.
It's written into the CBA that there won't be any contraction.

These David Glass is evil conspiracy theories are getting old. They are almost as ridiculous as KK's crap.

Ninjaman
08-08-2005, 05:08 PM
Lamar Hunt is RICH !!!!!!!!!!

Let him pay for some of these 'needed' expenses like beer gardens.

Logical
08-08-2005, 05:28 PM
I don't live in Kansas or Missouri, but if I were mayor, there's no way in Hell I'd spend a penny on the Royals until there's a true salary cap. David Glass has refused to spend any money on this team and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to hear the word "Contraction" again in the next few years. The Royals are the laughing stock of the professional sports world and I think it would be absolutely foolish to spend any money in their support, unless the team where sold to a Mark Cuban type owner (which isn't likely to happen).

That being said, the Mayor should do whatever's necessary to make the NFL and Chiefs happy. If they left KC, I don't think it would be a situation like Cleveland where they'd replace them in 5 years. I think they'd be gone for 15-20 because there's no reason to expand to 34 teams.

Dane:clap::clap::clap: Yep with the situation in MLB building a stadium for the Royals would be throwing good money down the drain.

tk13
08-08-2005, 05:30 PM
:clap::clap::clap: Yep with the situation in MLB building a stadium for the Royals would be throwing good money down the drain.
They need to have the K renovated though.. it's not in good shape. I would be happy with that, I don't think a stadium needs to be built, it wouldn't make a difference, and you'd just be ditching an already beautiful stadium... but you can tell the K needs some work just so it doesn't turn into a dump. Arrowhead probably isn't too far behind.

morphius
08-08-2005, 05:49 PM
The Chiefs are askig for an insane amount of money for improvements. Of course I have no idea why the Chiefs are even asking for the money and why the county isn't looking into these things itself. Of course they have proved time and time again that they have no right running anything...

tk13
08-08-2005, 05:52 PM
The Chiefs are askig for an insane amount of money for improvements. Of course I have no idea why the Chiefs are even asking for the money and why the county isn't looking into these things itself. Of course they have proved time and time again that they have no right running anything...
And that's the problem... very few people really have a good grasp on the situation.

Uatu
08-08-2005, 05:55 PM
One might speculate that if Jackson County were smart (ha, ha) that they would get involved to help the team out, considering the possibility of losing them to another county or even across the state line.

morphius
08-08-2005, 05:59 PM
And that's the problem... very few people really have a good grasp on the situation.
I can't even imagine what the Chiefs could do to that stadium for 300 million, as much as I hate Jackball Harry his showing what stadiums have been built for that number really made sure to drive home the point that the Chiefs may be up to something. When the stadium with the field that can be slid from the stadium outdoors for better sun, and a retractible roof, costs only $20 million more then what the Chiefs are asking, yeah, one would think they have something in mind.

tk13
08-08-2005, 06:00 PM
One might speculate that if Jackson County were smart (ha, ha) that they would get involved to help the team out, considering the possibility of losing them to another county or even across the state line.
They simply say they don't have the money... which is why we are where we are. Once 2007 hits, Jackson County will be in default of the lease.

tk13
08-08-2005, 06:05 PM
I can't even imagine what the Chiefs could do to that stadium for 300 million, as much as I hate Jackball Harry his showing what stadiums have been built for that number really made sure to drive home the point that the Chiefs may be up to something. When the stadium with the field that can be slid from the stadium outdoors for better sun, and a retractible roof, costs only $20 million more then what the Chiefs are asking, yeah, one would think they have something in mind.
Well, I imagine there is some work to be done to add things to an existing building, as opposed to building something from scratch, but I'm not any kind of expert on construction. I think of it more in terms that once your car gets old, sometimes it costs more to fix everything that's wrong as opposed to just buying a new one. I'm not sure how good that analogy is though.

That said, I don't know the cost of every single stadium... and I'd like to see that list of stadiums that our ol' buddy Jack Harry used. I do know the Colts new stadium is a $500 million dollar project though. That's included with a new convention center, and the total project is like $923 million dollars. Similar size market, smaller fanbase though. Much more than $300 million.

morphius
08-08-2005, 06:12 PM
Well, I imagine there is some work to be done to add things to an existing building, as opposed to building something from scratch, but I'm not any kind of expert on construction. I think of it more in terms that once your car gets old, sometimes it costs more to fix everything that's wrong as opposed to just buying a new one. I'm not sure how good that analogy is though.

That said, I don't know the cost of every single stadium... and I'd like to see that list of stadiums that our ol' buddy Jack Harry used. I do know the Colts new stadium is a $500 million dollar project though. That's included with a new convention center, and the total project is like $923 million dollars. Similar size market, smaller fanbase though. Much more than $300 million.
I think there were 5 or so. Invesco was one, I think AZ planned one was in the list, Gillette was one. Thats all I can think of though.

VonneMarie
08-08-2005, 06:13 PM
Well, I imagine there is some work to be done to add things to an existing building, as opposed to building something from scratch, but I'm not any kind of expert on construction. I think of it more in terms that once your car gets old, sometimes it costs more to fix everything that's wrong as opposed to just buying a new one. I'm not sure how good that analogy is though.

That said, I don't know the cost of every single stadium... and I'd like to see that list of stadiums that our ol' buddy Jack Harry used. I do know the Colts new stadium is a $500 million dollar project though. That's included with a new convention center, and the total project is like $923 million dollars. Similar size market, smaller fanbase though. Much more than $300 million.
I saw that last night too.

As for the list of stadiums he had, Eagles, Pats, Houston, Cards, Broncos and Jax. One of those stadiums (Jax I think) cost 290 mil.

I also feel the Chiefs are up to something. :hmmm:

VonneMarie
08-08-2005, 06:14 PM
Also Pittsburgh that cost 200 mil.

morphius
08-08-2005, 06:16 PM
I think there were 5 or so. Invesco was one, I think AZ planned one was in the list, Gillette was one. Thats all I can think of though.

And I guess the AZ is 120 million more the the Chiefs were asking. I knew one of them was over 300 million.

I also understand what you are saying about fixing up an older place, sometimes that is much more difficult, but I think they are asking a lot more then they were asking for with bi-state, so hence the reason I think they may have plans of doing something else.

ENDelt260
08-08-2005, 06:16 PM
Haha... the Chiefs are up to something...

"Okay guys... here's the deal. We get $300 mil... drop $100 mil on the renovations, and blow the rest on hookers and blow! It's genious! Hahahahaha!"

chiefqueen
08-08-2005, 06:41 PM
It's written into the CBA that there won't be any contraction.

These David Glass is evil conspiracy theories are getting old. They are almost as ridiculous as KK's crap.

The CBA only guarantees no contraction thru 2006, also the Marlins can't play in Pro Player after 2009 & Miami voters have voted down and baseball stadium.

Nzoner
08-08-2005, 07:04 PM
Just giving the mayor of KC props for saying they want to see training camp in St.Joseph.That would be excellent as I could turn the gameroom into a bed and breakfast for a month.

DaneMcCloud
08-08-2005, 07:08 PM
Beavis,

I don't see ANYWHERE in this thread the statement that "David Glass is evil". There was an article by Posnanski a few weeks ago that said that if the Royals had kept Damon, Beltran, Dye & Sweeney and a few others, the payroll would be only 73 million! That's middle of the pack these days, and I guarantee that the K would be sold out more often than not, and the Royals would be in the playoffs every year with that lineup. But Glass has PROVEN that he will not spend that type of money and therefore, I think that is unwise to spend ANY money on the K, let alone a downtown stadium. What has he done to prove that he will put a quality team on the field?

Until there is a HARD salary cap and steroids are absent from the game, the states of Kansas and Missouri would be foolish to spend ANY money on the Royals. Sad, but true.

The state of Missouri should be doing everything in its power to make Lamar/Clark Hunt and the Chiefs happy, even if it means building a new stadium downtown. I think it's more likely that they'll do a Lambeau Field type of renovation, but something needs to be done as soon as possible. If not, I think I'd be the only person on Chiefsplanet that wouldn't be unhappy with the Los Angeles Chiefs.

Dane

Crush
08-08-2005, 09:33 PM
Contraction can't be an option because I thought Kauffman made sure that the Royals would stay in KC for all eternity. :shrug:

BigChiefFan
08-08-2005, 09:39 PM
I saw Jack Harry's segment on the news last night and he has a valid point. He also mentioned that the Chiefs don't pay property taxes and only pay $450,000 a year to lease the place. The Chiefs have a gravy train and would be fools to leave, but they need to pony up their FAIR share as well.

tk13
08-08-2005, 09:52 PM
I saw Jack Harry's segment on the news last night and he has a valid point. He also mentioned that the Chiefs don't pay property taxes and only pay $450,000 a year to lease the place. The Chiefs have a gravy train and would be fools to leave, but they need to pony up their FAIR share as well.
Not if somebody else offers to pay it for them.... that's your catch.

BigChiefFan
08-08-2005, 10:00 PM
Not if somebody else offers to pay it for them.... that's your catch.
I'd hate to see them go, but they are being greedy if they think revamping Arrowhead should cost that much-might as well build a state of the art new stadium for that kind of money. I'm all for giving them some hard earned tax money, but if they think they can sit back and just screw us over to Hell with that cavalier mentality. Fair is fair and they are being greedy as Hell... all that plus NFL revenue sharing-up theirs.

Logical
08-08-2005, 10:02 PM
Beavis,

I don't see ANYWHERE in this thread the statement that "David Glass is evil". There was an article by Posnanski a few weeks ago that said that if the Royals had kept Damon, Beltran, Dye & Sweeney and a few others, the payroll would be only 73 million! That's middle of the pack these days, and I guarantee that the K would be sold out more often than not, and the Royals would be in the playoffs every year with that lineup. But Glass has PROVEN that he will not spend that type of money and therefore, I think that is unwise to spend ANY money on the K, let alone a downtown stadium. What has he done to prove that he will put a quality team on the field?

Until there is a HARD salary cap and steroids are absent from the game, the states of Kansas and Missouri would be foolish to spend ANY money on the Royals. Sad, but true.

The state of Missouri should be doing everything in its power to make Lamar/Clark Hunt and the Chiefs happy, even if it means building a new stadium downtown. I think it's more likely that they'll do a Lambeau Field type of renovation, but something needs to be done as soon as possible. If not, I think I'd be the only person on Chiefsplanet that wouldn't be unhappy with the Los Angeles Chiefs.

DaneNot quite true, we could tailgate together every home game.:D

beer bacon
08-08-2005, 10:04 PM
I'd hate to see them go, but they are being greedy if they think revamping Arrowhead should cost that much-might as well build a state of the art new stadium for that kind of money. I'm all for giving them some hard earned tax money, but if they think they can sit back and just screw us over to Hell with that cavalier mentality. Fair is fair and they are being greedy as Hell... all that plus NFL revenue sharing-up theirs.

I don't understand your thinking. So you would rather build a new stadium for what, 600 million dollars, rather then pay 300 million to make Arrowhead the best stadium in the NFL? I personally would rather give Arrowhead an awesome upgrade instead of abandoning it.

Also, you can't build a "state of the art new stadium" for 300 million dollars. You can build a pretty mediocre stadium, a stadium that would not really be as good as the stadium we have now, for 300 million dollars.

Logical
08-08-2005, 10:04 PM
Contraction can't be an option because I thought Kauffman made sure that the Royals would stay in KC for all eternity. :shrug:That fell through, he tried to turn over ownership to the community but the league would not allow it.

BigChiefFan
08-08-2005, 10:08 PM
I don't understand your thinking. So you would rather build a new stadium for what, 600 million dollars, rather then pay 300 million to make Arrowhead the best stadium in the NFL? I personally would rather give Arrowhead an awesome upgrade instead of abandoning it.

Also, you can't build a "state of the art new stadium" for 300 million dollars. You can build a pretty mediocre stadium, a stadium that would not really be as good as the stadium we have now, for 300 million dollars.
I think we could easily have a state of the art facility for less than $400 million, rather than sinking more money into a place that the Chiefs believe is falling down around them.

Pants
08-08-2005, 10:09 PM
I think we could easily have a state of the art facility for less than $400 million, rather than sinking more money into a place that the Chiefs believe is falling down around them.

Dude, this is Arrowhead you're talking about. Arrowhead.

tk13
08-08-2005, 10:10 PM
I'd hate to see them go, but they are being greedy if they think revamping Arrowhead should cost that much-might as well build a state of the art new stadium for that kind of money. I'm all for giving them some hard earned tax money, but if they think they can sit back and just screw us over to Hell with that cavalier mentality. Fair is fair and they are being greedy as Hell... all that plus NFL revenue sharing-up theirs.
Well, I think their thought process was that people were going to be a lot more receptive to trying to add to the Arrowhead atmosphere as opposed to doing what Denver did in wrecking Mile High and their homefield advantage. That's purely a guess on my part, because I love both stadiums at the complex and would rather see them renovated then be put in new stadiums.

I would say that I doubt any of us really have an idea what it costs to run and maintain and improve Arrowhead though.... I think that's part of the problem, there's a large, large understanding gap between Lamar and the general public, in both directions.

BigChiefFan
08-08-2005, 10:18 PM
Dude, this is Arrowhead you're talking about. Arrowhead.
It's a great venue-no doubt about that, but it's not like another; more state of the art facilty can't be built instead. The fans are what make it great. The place is starting to show it's age.

beer bacon
08-08-2005, 10:19 PM
It's a great venue-no doubt about that, but it's not like another; more state of the art facilty can't be built instead. The fans are what make it great. The place is starting to show it's age.

What do you think we should name the new stadium? Invesco V. 2.0?

BigChiefFan
08-08-2005, 10:22 PM
What do you think we should name the new stadium? Invesco V. 2.0?I really don't care what they name it, as long as they don't go to PSLs. Plus it takes some of the burden off the tax payers.

tk13
08-08-2005, 10:25 PM
I really don't care what they name it, as long as they don't go to PSLs. Plus it takes some of the burden off the tax payers.
If they build a new stadium, you could probably bet your behind we'll have PSL's....

Pitt Gorilla
08-08-2005, 10:35 PM
Beavis,

I don't see ANYWHERE in this thread the statement that "David Glass is evil". There was an article by Posnanski a few weeks ago that said that if the Royals had kept Damon, Beltran, Dye & Sweeney and a few others, the payroll would be only 73 million! That's middle of the pack these days, and I guarantee that the K would be sold out more often than not, and the Royals would be in the playoffs every year with that lineup. But Glass has PROVEN that he will not spend that type of money and therefore, I think that is unwise to spend ANY money on the K, let alone a downtown stadium. What has he done to prove that he will put a quality team on the field?

Until there is a HARD salary cap and steroids are absent from the game, the states of Kansas and Missouri would be foolish to spend ANY money on the Royals. Sad, but true.

The state of Missouri should be doing everything in its power to make Lamar/Clark Hunt and the Chiefs happy, even if it means building a new stadium downtown. I think it's more likely that they'll do a Lambeau Field type of renovation, but something needs to be done as soon as possible. If not, I think I'd be the only person on Chiefsplanet that wouldn't be unhappy with the Los Angeles Chiefs.

DanePlayoffs every year with that lineup? Are you kidding me? The pitching on that team was terrible. I'm not sure Damon is much better than DeJesus and Beltran wouldn't add enough to make up the difference. How is the hell would that team get us into the playoffs every year?

Demonpenz
08-08-2005, 10:44 PM
Playoffs every year with that lineup? Are you kidding me? The pitching on that team was terrible. I'm not sure Damon is much better than DeJesus and Beltran wouldn't add enough to make up the difference. How is the hell would that team get us into the playoffs every year?


the royals bring in more money than the chiefs

Rausch
08-08-2005, 10:51 PM
Talking to the legislators around here the Chiefs leaving is petty much a lock.

Pants
08-08-2005, 11:21 PM
Talking to the legislators around here the Chiefs leaving is petty much a lock.

Leaving to?

beavis
08-08-2005, 11:48 PM
There was an article by Posnanski a few weeks ago that said that if the Royals had kept Damon, Beltran, Dye & Sweeney and a few others, the payroll would be only 73 million! That's middle of the pack these days, and I guarantee that the K would be sold out more often than not, and the Royals would be in the playoffs every year with that lineup.
At which point he'd be losing about $25 million a year. Sounds like a great way to keep a franchise in town, don't ya think?

I understand that if we were winning more, attendance would be up (as it was in 2003). But there's no way it'd "sold out more often than not". Even if they did sell out every single home game, they still wouldn't be taking in enough money to support a $73 million payroll. I don't think I'd take back Damon or Dye at the price they're at now. Neither one of them have done much without a upper tier cast around them (which we obviously don't have). Even Beltran is overpaid IMO. I know he's been hurt, but disregarding last years playoffs, he's never performed in such a way to justify his current salary.

beavis
08-08-2005, 11:50 PM
The CBA only guarantees no contraction thru 2006, also the Marlins can't play in Pro Player after 2009 & Miami voters have voted down and baseball stadium.
Without looking it up, I think that's also when the CBA runs out. You can bet the players will never let contraction happen in a new CBA. They feel about as strongly on that as they do the idea of a salary cap.

beavis
08-08-2005, 11:53 PM
one would think they have something in mind.
Didn't Steadman flat out say a couple of months ago that they want a new stadium? I think that's what they're getting at. The cost of renovation (in their minds) is almost as much as a new stadium.

Simplex3
08-09-2005, 01:16 AM
Talking to the legislators around here the Chiefs leaving is petty much a lock.
F**k'em then. I wouldn't let my own mother f**k me over, I'm not about to let a sports team do it.

If they want to be unreasonable pricks then call their bluff. If they leave then we'll sit it out a few years until one of the other NFL teams that isn't selling out decides the Chiefs had it pretty damn good. We'll work a reasonable deal with them and they'll wind up playing in KS.

tk13
08-09-2005, 01:40 AM
F**k'em then. I wouldn't let my own mother f**k me over, I'm not about to let a sports team do it.

If they want to be unreasonable pricks then call their bluff. If they leave then we'll sit it out a few years until one of the other NFL teams that isn't selling out decides the Chiefs had it pretty damn good. We'll work a reasonable deal with them and they'll wind up playing in KS.
So we let the Chiefs walk, then build a stadium for a different team?

Simplex3
08-09-2005, 01:51 AM
So we let the Chiefs walk, then build a stadium for a different team?
I think you find a new team with an owner smart enough to want to own his own stadium. Give them the land for free. Hell, give them the land and $200M in cash. Whatever, just make sure they own the building. People don't take care of s**t they're renting like they do s**t they own.

The issue with the Chiefs is that they have our little retarded nephew, Jackson County, by the balls and they know it. Because of that they think the rest of the city is going to see this and squirm enough to cough up more cash than we should. That whole situation is so f**ked up the only solution may be killing it completely.

The Chiefs make plenty of money. If they want to make MORE money they can do what every other business in the world does and invest their own cash in some upgrades. Hell, it's not even a real investment because their risk is damn near zero. It's more like a sure thing.

Let them move to LA and see if people sell the place out while they go years without a playoff win. They'll be wishing for the good old days back here in KC.

beer bacon
08-09-2005, 01:55 AM
It sure is nice to have my home county referred to as retarded.

Simplex3
08-09-2005, 01:58 AM
It sure is nice to have my home county referred to as retarded.
You disagree? They take the profits from the stadiums and piss them away. Then they put nothing back in the stadiums. Then when it's crunch time and they can't afford to do what they were supposed to be, they come crying to everyone else to bail them out. I wouldn't call that responsible or smart. That little stunt is what's causing all of this. Blame needs to be placed where it's deserved. Squarly on Jackson County's shoulders.

tk13
08-09-2005, 02:18 AM
I think you find a new team with an owner smart enough to want to own his own stadium. Give them the land for free. Hell, give them the land and $200M in cash. Whatever, just make sure they own the building. People don't take care of s**t they're renting like they do s**t they own.

The issue with the Chiefs is that they have our little retarded nephew, Jackson County, by the balls and they know it. Because of that they think the rest of the city is going to see this and squirm enough to cough up more cash than we should. That whole situation is so f**ked up the only solution may be killing it completely.

The Chiefs make plenty of money. If they want to make MORE money they can do what every other business in the world does and invest their own cash in some upgrades. Hell, it's not even a real investment because their risk is damn near zero. It's more like a sure thing.

Let them move to LA and see if people sell the place out while they go years without a playoff win. They'll be wishing for the good old days back here in KC.
I think you make some interesting points. But I think you overlook the fact that it's not just Jackson County, but the fact that you will not find anyone this side of Robert Kraft forking over that much for a stadium. I really don't know what the final answer is going to be, but if I'm Lamar I see teams all over the league getting new stadiums built or renovated without having to fork over even close to all the money. He'd be completely stupid to just fork the money over without trying to get some help.... he runs a team in the most successful sporting league in the country, it'd be a huge loss to the community if my team leaves town. If I'm the taxpayers, you obviously want to get as much of Lamar's money involved as possible. There doesn't seem to be much communication there, and I'm not real confident there ever will be.

The Chiefs do make money, and I know I get flack for this opinion, but I do think they are going to fall behind in the modern NFL... simply because signing bonuses are paid up front, and now you're seeing all these elite players get into the 20-30 million dollar signing bonus range, and I think we might not be too many years from breaking the $40-50 million barrier. Lamar makes 20-30 million dollars a year off the team, and that's with a stadium that's one of the oldest in the league and super high ticket prices. I think they're going to have to jack up ticket prices even higher. They are going to get you one way or another. I don't think things are awful now, but I'd like to see us avoid being where the Colts are, paying money out of the owner's pocket to cover signing bonuses for two or three stars, then being unable to field a defense because you're out of money. I know you won't like this opinion, but I'd like to see us be in the top of the league in profit, to be a big moneymaker, to be able to afford whatever it is so we can field a competitive team. I'd like to see us solve these problems before they arise, but I have zero faith that's what is going to happen, because people in KC aren't going to act until things are in horrendously poor shape, or until the team is gone.

tk13
08-09-2005, 02:32 AM
Well, I imagine there is some work to be done to add things to an existing building, as opposed to building something from scratch, but I'm not any kind of expert on construction. I think of it more in terms that once your car gets old, sometimes it costs more to fix everything that's wrong as opposed to just buying a new one. I'm not sure how good that analogy is though.

That said, I don't know the cost of every single stadium... and I'd like to see that list of stadiums that our ol' buddy Jack Harry used. I do know the Colts new stadium is a $500 million dollar project though. That's included with a new convention center, and the total project is like $923 million dollars. Similar size market, smaller fanbase though. Much more than $300 million.
For the record, since I thought this was a pretty interesting discussion about renovations vs. new buildings, I went and looked it up... and the Packers renovation of Lambeau Field, approved almost five years ago back in 2000, cost $295 million dollars.

For those interested, the majority of the money came from a .5% sales tax hike. They also made over $92 million from a one-time season ticket holder fee.

Rausch
08-09-2005, 02:42 AM
F**k'em then. I wouldn't let my own mother f**k me over, I'm not about to let a sports team do it.

If they want to be unreasonable pricks then call their bluff. If they leave then we'll sit it out a few years until one of the other NFL teams that isn't selling out decides the Chiefs had it pretty damn good. We'll work a reasonable deal with them and they'll wind up playing in KS.


From how I understand it it isn't about the Chiefs, it's about how the Chiefs leaving will be better in the long run,(more money for the Cards, Rams, and then Royals) for all of Missour.

If the Chiefs leave it allows all that money to be funneled into the St. Loius teams and the struggling KC franchise (Royals.)

beer bacon
08-09-2005, 02:43 AM
From how I understand it it isn't about the Chiefs, it's about how the Chiefs leaving will be better in the long run,(more money for the Cards, Rams, and then Royals) for all of Missour.

If the Chiefs leave it allows all that money to be funneled into the St. Loius teams and the struggling KC franchise (Royals.)

Only the Royals in KC? I think I would go mad.

keg in kc
08-09-2005, 02:49 AM
If the Chiefs leave it allows all that money to be funneled into the St. Loius teams and the struggling KC franchise (Royals.)And if the Royals head across the border with them, then all that money can be funneled to the St. Louis teams (which is what they're doing already), without complaint from the KC side of the state. Because the impression I've gotten since I moved here is that the MO legislature doesn't give a flying f*ck about the western half of the state.

Personally, I don't care. I'll root for the Chiefs regardless of which side of the line they're on.

Now, if they move a distance more than just across the state line, that's another story.

KCTitus
08-09-2005, 06:54 AM
It's terribly short sighted to let the Chiefs walk away...that leaves KC with only one pro franchise which is a doormat in a league they have no business being in.

It would solidify KC as a 2nd rate city.

BigRedChief
08-09-2005, 07:22 AM
$312 Million is just frigging moronic. Thats a frigging stick up plain and simple. But on the other hand the Jackson County politicians are a bunch of moronic mofo's. So maybe it will work out.

htismaqe
08-09-2005, 08:02 AM
$312M is CHEAP compared to what's going on around the league.

It's OK, don't pay. LA or someone else will.

KCTitus
08-09-2005, 08:07 AM
$312M is CHEAP compared to what's going on around the league.

It's OK, don't pay. LA or someone else will.

Especially in the long run...losing an NFL franchise means never seeing another again. Maybe they'll convert Arrowhead into a world class monster truck competition arena--that should only take 20-30M.

BigRedChief
08-09-2005, 08:14 AM
$312M is CHEAP compared to what's going on around the league.

It's OK, don't pay. LA or someone else will.

I don't want to see a new stadium. I would like to see Arrowhead renovated. The sightlines are great. Tailgating? How would you design a better parking lot for tailgating? Nope renovate not build new.

It's not gonna take $312 mil to make Arrowhead a top of the line stadium.

The Chiefs will never ever leave the KC metro area you know why?.....Kansas will cough up the money if the Missouri politicians are morons.

KC Chiefs football will work out by the racetrack. They will still get the 79K to go out there for games. I'll go.

cmh6476
08-09-2005, 08:15 AM
the MO legislature will buckle and give the Chiefs what they want. They have to.

CP has them by the balls right now. These dumbasses in the house didn't realize just how important the Chiefs are to this area. Now they do.

htismaqe
08-09-2005, 09:23 AM
I don't want to see a new stadium. I would like to see Arrowhead renovated. The sightlines are great. Tailgating? How would you design a better parking lot for tailgating? Nope renovate not build new.

It's not gonna take $312 mil to make Arrowhead a top of the line stadium.

The Chiefs will never ever leave the KC metro area you know why?.....Kansas will cough up the money if the Missouri politicians are morons.

KC Chiefs football will work out by the racetrack. They will still get the 79K to go out there for games. I'll go.

Do you have any idea how much renovating a classic stadium costs?

Lambeau was $295M. Soldier Field was $587M.

In many cases, building a new stadium is CHEAPER because it doesn't include any of the complexities of preserving the original structure.

ct
08-09-2005, 09:53 AM
What do you think we should name the new stadium? Invesco V. 2.0?

King Carl Pavilion

:)

HC_Chief
08-09-2005, 09:57 AM
Do you have any idea how much renovating a classic stadium costs?

Lambeau was $295M. Soldier Field was $587M.

In many cases, building a new stadium is CHEAPER because it doesn't include any of the complexities of preserving the original structure.


Looks like the Chiefs are estimating around $315mil to cover renovation.

MO better get their shit together... it would break my heart to see the Chiefs move to KS :D

ct
08-09-2005, 09:59 AM
For the record, since I thought this was a pretty interesting discussion about renovations vs. new buildings, I went and looked it up... and the Packers renovation of Lambeau Field, approved almost five years ago back in 2000, cost $295 million dollars.

For those interested, the majority of the money came from a .5% sales tax hike. They also made over $92 million from a one-time season ticket holder fee.

70,000 season ticket holders x $1,000 PSL (one-time fee) = $70,000,000

htismaqe
08-09-2005, 10:09 AM
If anybody thinks the Hunt's are going to kick in more than 10-15% of the total cost, they're dreaming.

It's just not the way it's done in today's NFL. Taxpayers DO foot the bill.

It comes down to whether or not you rather stick to your principles even if it means losing the team.

BigRedChief
08-09-2005, 10:16 AM
70,000 season ticket holders x $1,000 PSL (one-time fee) = $70,000,000

I don't think I'll get off with just a 1k PSL fee with the new stadium. I think it will be more. I also think that alot of season ticket holders will drop off. Not because the Chiefs suck or lack of interest but lack of funds. Its getting more and more expensive. If I hadn't got a new job and raise I wouldn't have paid the future PSL. I've got 3 tickets and its $2+k already before parking and accesories. Thats alot of money.

BigRedChief
08-09-2005, 10:20 AM
Do you have any idea how much renovating a classic stadium costs?

Lambeau was $295M. Soldier Field was $587M.

In many cases, building a new stadium is CHEAPER because it doesn't include any of the complexities of preserving the original structure.

I'm way off on the #'s. Justrochambeaume.

I still would like to pay the money to renovate other than build new. But then you get up to $312 mil why don't you put a roof on it and get a Super Bowl that will bring in $350-400 million in tourist $'s? If we had a solid plan for a stadium with a roof the NFL would announce the following week that KC had the Super Bowl and the week before the Super Bowl is to be "Lama Hunt" week. A celebration of the man etc etc

DaneMcCloud
08-09-2005, 10:21 AM
At which point he'd be losing about $25 million a year. Sounds like a great way to keep a franchise in town, don't ya think?

If Damon, Beltran, Dye and Byrd were still with the Royals, they wouldn't be losing 25 million a season. There would be sellouts, playoffs, merchandising and more expensive rights fees for the Royals Television Network (or whatever's it's called). But David Glass continues to have a pity party because there's no salary cap. Why did this jackhole buy the team to begin with?

Until the day comes when there's a hard salary cap in MLB, the state governments of Missouri and Kansas shouldn't spend a penny on the Royals, especially with David Glass as owner.

Dane

htismaqe
08-09-2005, 10:24 AM
I don't think I'll get off with just a 1k PSL fee with the new stadium. I think it will be more. I also think that alot of season ticket holders will drop off. Not because the Chiefs suck or lack of interest but lack of funds. Its getting more and more expensive. If I hadn't got a new job and raise I wouldn't have paid the future PSL. I've got 3 tickets and its $2+k already before parking and accesories. Thats alot of money.

I don't think season ticket sales would drop off at all. The "profile" of a season ticket holder would definitely change, though.

It's the state of the current NFL and it's working in other cities comparable in size to KC.

htismaqe
08-09-2005, 10:25 AM
I'm way off on the #'s. Justrochambeaume.

I still would like to pay the money to renovate other than build new. But then you get up to $312 mil why don't you put a roof on it and get a Super Bowl that will bring in $350-400 million in tourist $'s? If we had a solid plan for a stadium with a roof the NFL would announce the following week that KC had the Super Bowl and the week before the Super Bowl is to be "Lama Hunt" week. A celebration of the man etc etc

Are we sure that a retractable roof is not in the $312M plan?

Brock
08-09-2005, 10:28 AM
Are we sure that a retractable roof is not in the $312M plan?

I don't think you could do that for 300 million.

Brock
08-09-2005, 10:29 AM
Actually, Reliant stadium cost 300 million, so I take that back.

BigRedChief
08-09-2005, 10:30 AM
I don't think season ticket sales would drop off at all. The "profile" of a season ticket holder would definitely change, though.

It's the state of the current NFL and it's working in other cities comparable in size to KC.

I didn't mean that the total # of season ticket holders would drop just that a lot of current ones would. Some would drop off just because they didn't want to drive over to Wyandotte county. Fuk em anyway. Probably the same SOB's that don't come out when its a little too cold.:mad:

I agree there will be a change in the demographics. More wine and cheese crowd.

Thig Lyfe
08-09-2005, 10:34 AM
Are they on yet?

ENDelt260
08-09-2005, 10:55 AM
put a roof on it

Boooooo!! Booooooo!

Calcountry
08-09-2005, 11:07 AM
Forget a new downtown BB stadium, let them play in the Sprint Arena. Our corner outfielders would finally be able to put up some decent HR numbers, and we would be able to sell out just about every game.But so would your opponents.

Calcountry
08-09-2005, 11:16 AM
Haha... the Chiefs are up to something...

"Okay guys... here's the deal. We get $300 mil... drop $100 mil on the renovations, and blow the rest on hookers and blow! It's genious! Hahahahaha!"Just ask the execs at World Com, they know how to party.

Calcountry
08-09-2005, 11:18 AM
Beavis,

I don't see ANYWHERE in this thread the statement that "David Glass is evil". There was an article by Posnanski a few weeks ago that said that if the Royals had kept Damon, Beltran, Dye & Sweeney and a few others, the payroll would be only 73 million! That's middle of the pack these days, and I guarantee that the K would be sold out more often than not, and the Royals would be in the playoffs every year with that lineup. But Glass has PROVEN that he will not spend that type of money and therefore, I think that is unwise to spend ANY money on the K, let alone a downtown stadium. What has he done to prove that he will put a quality team on the field?

Until there is a HARD salary cap and steroids are absent from the game, the states of Kansas and Missouri would be foolish to spend ANY money on the Royals. Sad, but true.

The state of Missouri should be doing everything in its power to make Lamar/Clark Hunt and the Chiefs happy, even if it means building a new stadium downtown. I think it's more likely that they'll do a Lambeau Field type of renovation, but something needs to be done as soon as possible. If not, I think I'd be the only person on Chiefsplanet that wouldn't be unhappy with the Los Angeles Chiefs.

DaneSo then, you would be happy with the Los angeles Chiefs?

Calcountry
08-09-2005, 11:19 AM
Not quite true, we could tailgate together every home game.:DDude, I thought about looking you up last weekend, I was in San Diego, but I didn't have access to a computer at the time.

Calcountry
08-09-2005, 11:24 AM
I think you find a new team with an owner smart enough to want to own his own stadium. Give them the land for free. Hell, give them the land and $200M in cash. Whatever, just make sure they own the building. People don't take care of s**t they're renting like they do s**t they own.

The issue with the Chiefs is that they have our little retarded nephew, Jackson County, by the balls and they know it. Because of that they think the rest of the city is going to see this and squirm enough to cough up more cash than we should. That whole situation is so f**ked up the only solution may be killing it completely.

The Chiefs make plenty of money. If they want to make MORE money they can do what every other business in the world does and invest their own cash in some upgrades. Hell, it's not even a real investment because their risk is damn near zero. It's more like a sure thing.

Let them move to LA and see if people sell the place out while they go years without a playoff win. They'll be wishing for the good old days back here in KC.Thats precisely why the Rams are in St Louis, and the Raiders returned home to their "guilted husband" Oakland. There is way too much great weather and good suishi to worry about going to a football game in L.A.

Calcountry
08-09-2005, 11:25 AM
You disagree? They take the profits from the stadiums and piss them away. Then they put nothing back in the stadiums. Then when it's crunch time and they can't afford to do what they were supposed to be, they come crying to everyone else to bail them out. I wouldn't call that responsible or smart. That little stunt is what's causing all of this. Blame needs to be placed where it's deserved. Squarly on Jackson County's shoulders.This sounds a lot like school districts when they need building upgrades because they are too old.

They never establish a contingincy fund in their budgets and go crying to the tax payers to float a bond to bail them out.

Calcountry
08-09-2005, 11:28 AM
Especially in the long run...losing an NFL franchise means never seeing another again. Maybe they'll convert Arrowhead into a world class monster truck competition arena--that should only take 20-30M.GO GRAVE DIGGER!!!11

htismaqe
08-09-2005, 11:33 AM
Just ask the execs at World Com, they know how to party.

And serve life sentences...

Calcountry
08-09-2005, 11:34 AM
And serve life sentences...ROFL

ct
08-09-2005, 11:47 AM
I don't think season ticket sales would drop off at all. The "profile" of a season ticket holder would definitely change, though.

It's the state of the current NFL and it's working in other cities comparable in size to KC.

Totally agree. The changing demographic of sports attendence, just getting harder and harder for an average joe to afford it.

BigRedChief
08-09-2005, 11:55 AM
Boooooo!! Booooooo!

I'm defintely in the "fuk a roof" voting populace. Super Bowl or not. :harumph:

chiefqueen
08-09-2005, 12:00 PM
Without looking it up, I think that's also when the CBA runs out. You can bet the players will never let contraction happen in a new CBA. They feel about as strongly on that as they do the idea of a salary cap.

Does CBA does expire (12/31/06) then but a clause in it specify allows the owners to examine contractions after 2006. (IMO opinion the question may become do the players want a hard salary cap or allow the Royals to continue to exist?)

Calcountry
08-09-2005, 12:28 PM
Totally agree. The changing demographic of sports attendence, just getting harder and harder for an average joe to afford it.The Oakland Athletics just offered me the right to buy Bleacher tickets for all possible home games in the playoffs for 540 bucks each.

Sorry, I don't have it right now, maybe in a month when you clinch.

Simplex3
08-09-2005, 05:57 PM
So here are the "problems" I see posed and some points to consider:

Missouri is only interrested in StL: This is one reason why the Chiefs should move to KS. No need for someone to feel like a second rate stepchild in the state.

Without the Chiefs we're a second teir city: First, what does that mean to you? In many people's eyes we're already there because of our lack of arts. Some say it's because we don't have good public transit. There's always some reason to claim we suck, you just happen to pick sports.

Someone else may come in and take them away: Yes, and someone else may buy that truck you're looking at. Does that mean you should pay the guy 15% over sticker price just to be sure you get it? After all, there are other trucks in New Orleans & Minnesota.

We have to pay, that's how it's done in the NFL today: The bar will be raised every year. Within 7 years of any upgrade Arrowhead will be in the back of the pack again. Now, do you really think the citizens of KC will have benefitted $300M plus interest, minus what we've spent on them, in those 7 years? Most economists say no. If you want to pay this just be aware that you're doing it out of pride and desire, not fiscally sound reasoning.

We need to remember this: Only 10% of the teams can be in the top 10%. Lamar acts like HE has to be in that top 10% all the time. Well, then you write the check big boy.

DaneMcCloud
08-09-2005, 06:16 PM
So then, you would be happy with the Los angeles Chiefs?

Bunnytrdr,

I would NOT be happy with the Los Angeles Chiefs, though this is where I'll call my home for the rest of my life. I think the Chiefs should stay in KC forever, but I've always thought that Jackson County, the Mayor of KC and especially the State Gov't were always 10 steps behind in everything they've ever done. I don't want them to lose the Chiefs the same way they lost the Scouts, A's & Kings.

Say what you will about the popularity of the NHL & NBA (and even the A's at the time), but the local goverment has a long history of screwing the pooch when it comes to professional sports teams.

Dane

WebGem
08-09-2005, 06:27 PM
When is all this stuff gonna go down anyways?

WebGem
08-09-2005, 06:30 PM
When is all this stuff gonna go down anyways?
Like, the voting or whatever.

Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan
08-09-2005, 06:54 PM
70,000 season ticket holders x $1,000 PSL (one-time fee) = $70,000,000

You wish it was only $1000 for a PSL.

Ravens stadium, PSL's run from $2500 for upper deck to $5000 for club seating.

Oh, and if you sell your PSLs, the club gets a % of what you sell them for. And if you don't renew on time, the PSL reverts to the club and <b>THEY</b> get to sell them all over again.

PSL's are of the devil.

BigRedChief
08-09-2005, 09:27 PM
You wish it was only $1000 for a PSL.

Ravens stadium, PSL's run from $2500 for upper deck to $5000 for club seating.

Oh, and if you sell your PSLs, the club gets a % of what you sell them for. And if you don't renew on time, the PSL reverts to the club and THEY get to sell them all over again.

http://www.forumspile.com/OMFG-Argh.jpg
Don't tell my wife!

Calcountry
08-10-2005, 04:05 PM
So then, you would be happy with the Los angeles Chiefs?

Bunnytrdr,

I would NOT be happy with the Los Angeles Chiefs, though this is where I'll call my home for the rest of my life. I think the Chiefs should stay in KC forever, but I've always thought that Jackson County, the Mayor of KC and especially the State Gov't were always 10 steps behind in everything they've ever done. I don't want them to lose the Chiefs the same way they lost the Scouts, A's & Kings.

Say what you will about the popularity of the NHL & NBA (and even the A's at the time), but the local goverment has a long history of screwing the pooch when it comes to professional sports teams.

DaneThanks for clearing that up, I was confused by your use of a double negative. Thanks.

Originally you said, "I would not be unhappy about the LA Chiefs".

Which led me to think, (-1)*(-1)=(+1), or, that you would be "happy" with the LA Chiefs. get it? I am such a smart ass, please forgive me. :p

beavis
08-10-2005, 04:50 PM
If anybody thinks the Hunt's are going to kick in more than 10-15% of the total cost, they're dreaming.

It's just not the way it's done in today's NFL. Taxpayers DO foot the bill.

It comes down to whether or not you rather stick to your principles even if it means losing the team.
I thought they said they were going to ante up $80 million if bi-state passed. Am I way off on that?

VonneMarie
08-10-2005, 06:32 PM
Secret tv studio for the NFL Network was in the works for Arrowhead when BSII failed and a Rep from MO and some activist (didn't get their names) said if the Chiefs had revealed their wish list, it might have passed. :shrug:

This was on 38 The Spot and should re-air at midnight, for you KC locals.

tk13
08-10-2005, 06:38 PM
Secret tv studio for the NFL Network was in the works for Arrowhead when BSII failed and a Rep from MO and some activist (didn't get their names) said if the Chiefs had revealed their wish list, it might have passed. :shrug:

This was on 38 The Spot and should re-air at midnight, for you KC locals.
I think that's part of the problem... the Chiefs didn't communicate what they wanted really at all. So now you have people thinking the Chiefs are "up to something", when they could've had lots of cool things planned that people didn't even know about. I'd imagine they were afraid that people would think "they don't need that", and think the media would be out to get them... and aside from Jack Harry and KK, I'm sure a lot of people would like to see Arrowhead improved.