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Holden McGroin
08-09-2005, 08:27 AM
I have been lurking here for quite a while and have posted here a few times. I have been around enoungh to know there are some very smart individuals here and have come to value there opinion. My wife and I have a 5-year-old boy who has been diagnosed as borderline autistic. We have read allot of information on recent research done that would lead you to believe that there are possible links to childhood immunizations and the occurence of Autism in children. Have any of you had any experience with this? I could use a little freindly advice on this. My position at this point is that I am not ready to risk my boy just to satisfy the schools requirements. I will have my wife homeschool rather than take the chance with my babiesí future.
Thanks in advance for any replies.
Bill

Nightfyre
08-09-2005, 08:30 AM
Oh geez, not this again! :doh:

Iowanian
08-09-2005, 08:31 AM
There are no credible studies that prove that association, despite what some may tell you.

Some will be here soon, to argue that there is no need for immunizations, because those diseases aren't around now....well...Duh....Not around since immunizations began.

Nightfyre
08-09-2005, 08:32 AM
And it begins....

Nightfyre
08-09-2005, 08:32 AM
This thread will be 15 pages by this evening....

Holden McGroin
08-09-2005, 08:33 AM
Oh geez, not this again! :doh:

Sorry if this has been gone over before. I have not seen it on here before so I thought it would be good to get some feedback from the planet...

Holden McGroin
08-09-2005, 08:34 AM
This thread will be 15 pages by this evening....
Is there a problem... Should I get a mod to kill this thread???

Nightfyre
08-09-2005, 08:35 AM
No, lol, it just always sparks a giant debate.

FWIW, Im with Iowanian. Vaccinations are, for the most part, safe. Its the diseases themselves that are dangerous, and the reaction they can cause. Even the probability of that is low, and usually if it happens it is mild. What is a problem, is children who are unvaccinated getting sick. It is always much more severe. Vaccinations are A-O-K! :thumb:

Lzen
08-09-2005, 08:37 AM
Is there a problem... Should I get a mod to kill this thread???

Nope. Ignore the brat. You are welcome to post any thread you like because last I knew, this was still a pretty open BB. Albeit, you can't post obscene stuff or other obvious things. Continue on, there's always room for a little debate.

Iowanian
08-09-2005, 08:38 AM
Holden...Don't listen to that clown.

It sounds like you have a serious concern, and a legitimate reason to wonder. What he's refering to, is that there is a vocal element, who believe immunizations are the devil.

I'm sorry your child has been diagnosed with that, and I'm sure it will be a struggle. Hopefully, a mild case will allow you all to live very functional, happy lives.

My wife is a public health nurse, and gives numerous immunizations weekly. They've studied extensively on this for many reasons, liability being one, and best interest of the public being another.
She insists that there is no reliable study prooving a link. Its a theory.

Holden McGroin
08-09-2005, 08:40 AM
No, lol, it just always sparks a giant debate.

Oh, I see... Well the more infor I can get the better. I have been struggling with this for some time now... If I was to sign the waivers on the vaccinations and then my boy ended up withdrawn from the world I don't thik I could live with myself... Especially since I have a prior knowledge of the potential risks.

Iowanian
08-09-2005, 08:41 AM
Holden...I'm getting some links for you. It may be a little while, as I have a meeting in a few minutes.

Nightfyre
08-09-2005, 08:41 AM
Ah, yes, forgive me. I did not mean to press you into not asking for it is an important question. I was just poking fun (at a most inappropriate time, in hindsight) at how many here are so convicted of their, as Iowanian put it, "vaccines are the devil" debate. Again, forgive my insensitivity.

Holden McGroin
08-09-2005, 08:43 AM
Holden...Don't listen to that clown.

It sounds like you have a serious concern, and a legitimate reason to wonder. What he's refering to, is that there is a vocal element, who believe immunizations are the devil.

I'm sorry your child has been diagnosed with that, and I'm sure it will be a struggle. Hopefully, a mild case will allow you all to live very functional, happy lives.

My wife is a public health nurse, and gives numerous immunizations weekly. They've studied extensively on this for many reasons, liability being one, and best interest of the public being another.
She insists that there is no reliable study prooving a link. Its a theory.

Thanks for the feedback. What does your wife think about the mercury in some of the immunizations? I think that there are mercury free alternatives but I am not sure of the availibility...

JOhn
08-09-2005, 08:45 AM
Vaccinations are A-O-K! :thumb:

For the most part.

I have a 9 year old, who had a horrible reaction to the pertussis vaccination, when they used live cells. But the Vaccination is no longer of that type for the most part. Just make sure they are using an acellular pertussis vaccination.

And yes, even though I have a daughter who is severely disabled due to a reaction, I still had my other 3 vaccinated.

Are there risks? Sure there are, but the rewards far out weigh them, IMO

Holden McGroin
08-09-2005, 08:46 AM
Ah, yes, forgive me. I did not mean to press you into not asking for it is an important question. I was just poking fun (at a most inappropriate time, in hindsight) at how many here are so convicted of their, as Iowanian put it, "vaccines are the devil" debate. Again, forgive my insensitivity.

You are forgivin... though there is no need, I read enough here to know that you were just joshin'... ROFL "vaccines are the devil"

Chiefnj
08-09-2005, 08:52 AM
I recommend that you read this book:

http://www.evidenceofharm.com/

If I were you, I would avoid vaccines with thimerisol. There are alternatives on the market. There are literally hundreds of websites that go into detail about the flaws of IOM study and conflicts of interests.

Holden McGroin
08-09-2005, 08:59 AM
I recommend that you read this book:

http://www.evidenceofharm.com/

If I were you, I would avoid vaccines with thimerisol. There are alternatives on the market. There are literally hundreds of websites that go into detail about the flaws of IOM study and conflicts of interests.

Thanks!!! I really appreciate the link. I will be checking back here from time to time, but I too have a meeting in a few minutes... For some reason they expect me to work here... go figure.

mlyonsd
08-09-2005, 09:00 AM
I recommend that you read this book:

http://www.evidenceofharm.com/

If I were you, I would avoid vaccines with thimerisol. There are alternatives on the market. There are literally hundreds of websites that go into detail about the flaws of IOM study and conflicts of interests.

Thimerisol is the buzz word these days. It's affects haven't been truly proven one way or the other but I think it was banned from use. But that doesn't meant the vaccines with it were taken off the shelf.

I agree with nj, avoid it if you can and insist on an alternative without it.

Chiefnj
08-09-2005, 09:08 AM
Thimerisol is the buzz word these days. It's affects haven't been truly proven one way or the other but I think it was banned from use. But that doesn't meant the vaccines with it were taken off the shelf.

I agree with nj, avoid it if you can and insist on an alternative without it.

It hasn't been banned. The government recommended phasing it out, but didn't mandate it. It's in the flu vaccines that the government recommends your infants get.

Chiefnj
08-09-2005, 09:16 AM
http://www.truthout.org/issues_05/061605HA.shtml

Iowanian
08-09-2005, 09:28 AM
http://www.niaid.nih.gov/factsheets/thimerosalqa.htm

April 2005

NIAID-Supported Studies on Mercury, Thimerosal, and Vaccine Safety
Overview

Thimerosal is a preservative that has been added to some vaccines and other products because it is effective in killing bacteria and in preventing bacterial contamination. When thimerosal is degraded or metabolized, one product is ethyl mercury. In July 1999, U.S. Department of Health and Human Service (DHHS) agencies, including the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID); The American Academy of Pediatrics; and vaccine manufacturers agreed that thimerosal should be reduced or eliminated in vaccines as a precautionary measure and to reduce exposure to mercury from all sources. This decision was based on the various Federal guidelines for methyl mercury exposure and the assumption that the health risks from methyl and ethyl mercury were the same. More research is needed to determine if the guidelines for methyl mercury are also appropriate guidelines for thimerosal. NIAID thimerosal research focuses on better understanding what happens to thimerosal once it is introduced in the body and how this compares to current knowledge of methyl mercury pathways.

How does methyl mercury exposure differ from thimerosal exposure?

There are important differences between methyl mercury exposure and thimerosal exposure.


Thimerosal contains ethyl mercury, which is structurally different from methyl mercury.
The timing and route of exposure are different for these two chemicals.
People mainly become exposed to methyl mercury through eating fish. Some of this methyl mercury may be passed from the mother to the fetus before birth and to infants through breast milk. Prior to the removal of thimerosal from childhood recommended vaccines, infants were exposed to thimerosal by intramuscular injection during vaccination, not by ingestion. Furthermore, infants received thimerosal from vaccines that were administered days or months apart. In contrast, methyl mercury exposure, primarily from foods, tends to occur over a longer, sustained period of time.

What is known about prenatal exposures to ethyl mercury?

There is minimal modern research to address whether or not ethyl mercury may be passed from the mother to the fetus before birth. As a precaution, DHHS and product manufacturers are working to reduce or eliminate thimerosal from products that may be given to pregnant women, such as Rho (D) Immune Globulin. Also, thimerosal-free versions of several adult vaccines are available for use.

Are the current mercury guidelines appropriate for assessing thimerosal exposure?

Methyl mercury guidelines assess a child's risk based on a continuing daily mercury exposure. As mentioned above, there are several important differences between methyl mercury exposure and thimerosal exposure. More research is needed to determine if the guidelines for methyl mercury exposure are also appropriate guidelines for thimerosal.

What research is NIAID funding to find out more about the effects of thimerosal exposure and how it compares with methyl mercury exposure?

NIAID has supported several studies to address these questions, including


One completed study of mercury levels in infants who received vaccines containing thimerosal
Two follow-up studies of mercury levels in infants who receive vaccines containing thimerosal
One ongoing study of thimerosal and methyl mercury exposure in infant monkeys
What was the purpose of the published study about thimerosal and vaccinations?

NIAID-supported studies at the University of Rochester and National Naval Medical Center in Bethesda, MD, looked at levels of mercury in blood and other samples from 61 infants who had received routine immunizations with thimerosal-containing vaccines.

What types of samples were assessed?

Mercury levels were measured in blood, urine, and stool samples from infants at different times up to 28 days after vaccination. Researchers also looked at levels of mercury in samples of breast milk, mother's hair, and infant formula.

What were the primary results obtained from assessment of these samples?


Blood levels of mercury were uniformly below safety guidelines for methyl mercury for all infants in this study.
Mercury was cleared from the blood in infants exposed to thimerosal faster than would be predicted for methyl mercury.
Infants excreted significant amounts of mercury in stool after thimerosal exposure, thus removing mercury from their bodies
What can be concluded from the results of the Rochester study?

These results suggest that there are differences in the way that thimerosal and methyl mercury are distributed, metabolized, and excreted. Thimerosal appears to be removed from the blood and body more rapidly than methyl mercury.

Where can I find more information on the Rochester study?

The results have been published in the November 30, 2002, issue of the scientific journal, The Lancet.

Reference: Pichichero ME, Cernichiari E, Lopreiato J, and Treanor J. Mercury concentrations and metabolism in infants receiving vaccines containing thimerosal: a descriptive study. Lancet 360:1737-1741 (2002). The Lancet online: http://www.thelancet.com

Does NIAID plan to support any further research to assess mercury levels in infants who received vaccines containing thimerosal?

Yes. NIAID is supporting a follow-up study with a larger number of infants. The University of Rochester is collaborating with the Children's Hospital of Buenos Aires in Argentina to conduct this study. The Argentina clinicians are measuring mercury in blood and other samples from infants receiving routine vaccinations with thimerosal. NIAID also plans to conduct an additional study in Argentina that will focus on enrollment of premature (32 to 37 weeks gestational age) and low birth weight (2000 to <3000 grams) infants. Although some thimerosal-containing vaccines still are given to children in Argentina, most vaccines now given to children in the United States are either thimerosal-free or contain markedly reduced amounts of thimerosal.

What does NIAID hope to learn from the follow-up studies of thimerosal and vaccines in infants?

The goals of these studies are to assess the levels of mercury in the blood and other samples from infants receiving thimerosal-containing vaccines as part of their routine immunization schedule and to obtain more samples closer to the time of vaccination.

What is the purpose of the ongoing studies of thimerosal and methyl mercury exposure in infant monkeys?

NIAID is supporting studies in infant and adolescent monkeys to compare the distribution, metabolism, and clearance of mercury after exposure to thimerosal and methyl mercury. Infant monkeys were exposed to either thimerosal or methyl mercury on a weekly basis. Blood levels of mercury were determined for each animal after each exposure. The development and behavior of the monkeys has also been monitored. After the fourth dose, animal tissues were analyzed to determine levels of mercury in target tissues, such as brain and kidney. These studies will provide information to help determine whether or not the guidelines for methyl mercury are also appropriate for thimerosal.

Are the results available for the ongoing studies of thimerosal and methyl mercury exposure in infant monkeys?

Currently the investigators of this study are completing their analyses of the data obtained from this study. Preliminary results from these studies indicate


Mercury, in the form of methyl mercury (oral ingestion) and thimerosal (intramuscular injection with vaccines) were both readily absorbed and distributed into blood and brain.
Total (organic plus inorganic) mercury was cleared from both blood and brain faster after thimerosal exposure than after methyl mercury exposure.
Levels of total mercury measured in blood and in brain were lower after thimerosal exposure than after methyl mercury exposure.
The proportion of brain mercury that was inorganic was higher in animals exposed to thimerosal compared with methyl mercury.
The absolute amount of inorganic mercury was higher in thimerosal exposed animals compared with methyl mercury.
During weekly doses of methyl mercury, total mercury in blood continued to accumulate, while during weekly doses of thimerosal, there was little accumulation of total mercury in blood.
This study indicates that methyl mercury is not a suitable reference for risk assessment from exposure to thimerosal. This study was not designed to measure any type of damage due to mercury exposure. The mechanisms by which organic mercury is converted to inorganic mercury in the brain are unknown. There is not a consensus as to whether inorganic mercury in brain causes damage or to what extent compared to organic mercury.

These results were recently published in Environmental Health Perspectives. For more information, see http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/docs/2005/7712/abstract.html.

Iowanian
08-09-2005, 09:35 AM
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/autism/autism-research.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/autism/autism-mmr-facts.htm

beavis
08-09-2005, 10:01 AM
There are no credible studies that prove that association, despite what some may tell you.
That's not true. There was a Kennedy on the Daily Show last week that told me so.

BIG_DADDY
08-09-2005, 11:18 AM
http://www.healthychild.com/news/firstmercurypoisoningcase.htm

It's amazing how some people are terrified of a little herb but have no problem pumping their kid full of mercury. As long as the gubment says there is no problem there must not be. :rolleyes:

I posted a bunch of good stuff on this in the past but can't find it. I do remember the FDA taking a scientist from the pharmaceutical companies making the vaccines to head up all the newresearch that is coming out now. :shake:

BIG_DADDY
08-09-2005, 11:25 AM
Here is some good information about the subject and those wonderful people Iowanian gave you the links to.
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0616-31.htm

Bottom line is why would you put mercury in your child?

mikey23545
08-09-2005, 11:30 AM
http://www.healthychild.com/news/firstmercurypoisoningcase.htm

It's amazing how some people are terrified of a little herb but have no problem pumping their kid full of mercury. As long as the gubment says there is no problem there must not be. :rolleyes:

I posted a bunch of good stuff on this in the past but can't find it. I do remember the FDA taking a scientist from the pharmaceutical companies making the vaccines to head up all the newresearch that is coming out now. :shake:

It's amazing how some people who are too stoned to know any better think that one small vaccination is going to introduce enough mercury iiinto a child to do major harm and that the government is hiding the fact from us because it wants us all to become it's Mercury Zombies....

B_Ambuehl
08-09-2005, 11:34 AM
Thimersosol is no longer contained in vaccines precisely due to this reason. The FDA "phased" it out because of all the evidence regarding "potential problems". When you translate that what it basically says is, "Alright this shit is messing people up but we really can't come out and blatantly admit it due to lawsuits so we'll just kidn've scrape it under the table."
They call it the "thimersosol" period. Kids born between 1989 and 2003 - The problem is biochemical indivuality....metabolism/excretion of substances between different individuals can vary 100 fold and there is plenty of evidence demonstrating autistic children have a problem with mercury detoxification.

You can read about the coverup among all the scientists etc. here:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/_/id/7395411?rnd=1120427679531&has-player=true

BIG_DADDY
08-09-2005, 11:35 AM
It's amazing how some people who are too stoned to know any better think that one small vaccination is going to introduce enough mercury iiinto a child to do major harm and that the government is hiding the fact from us because it wants us all to become it's Mercury Zombies....

Like kids only have one vaccine. The numbers are the numbers. You want to pump that shit in your kid it's a free country go ahead.

htismaqe
08-09-2005, 11:40 AM
Iowanian is right on one thing:

There if very little credible research to suggest that immunizations are contributing to ADHD/autism.

That being said, I'm a firm believer that too many vaccines are not a good thing. There doesn't seem to be any common sense in the application of medication/vaccines in this country.

Last spring, we had temporary custody of my nephew due to some extenuating circumstances. He had to be put in the hospital for jaundice at about a week old and while he was there, they wanted to do his first vaccinations.

One of the vaccines they wanted to give him was Hepatitis B. I asked them why. Because it's required for him to attend school was the answer.

I asked them if Hep B was a sexually transmitted disease and they said yes. I asked them if it was true that the large majority of small children contract it during the physical process of being born to a mother that has it. The answer again was yes.

So I asked them if the vaccine would help him if he'd already been exposed to the disease. The answer was no. I asked them how long the vaccine was effective for. The answer was about 10 years.

So they're giving a newborn child a vaccine that:

1) will not help him if he'd been exposed to the disease when he's most vulnerable -- during birth

2) won't still be effective at the time he's 2nd-most vulnerable -- his teenage years/first years of sexual activity

I refused the vaccine, and told them that his mother would have to make that call. It's required for him to attend school. And it's 100% pure stupidity.

Clint in Wichita
08-09-2005, 11:40 AM
Do not seek advice from an internet message board on such a serious topic.

Better yet, don't seek advice from an internet message board on any topic. :shake:

Iowanian
08-09-2005, 11:43 AM
the diseases are the diseases.....if you want to start a public health outbreak, because you don't vaccinate your kid and he/she gets exposed to Measles....be my guest.

There is a hippy college near where I live, where a bunch of those free spirt, dope smoking world travelers don't believe in vaccination. I think twice, in the past year, they've sent the entire state into a flurry trying to stamp out a communicable(and controled due to vaccinations) disease into the state/country.

There is a damn good reason, hundreds and or thousands of kids aren't dieing of Polio today, and its not because they ate their Organic Wheaties.


The smoke is making you paranoid BD. I seriously question the validity of the sources you provide, moreso than govt Health sites.

Kids get more Mercury from the vandecamps fish sticks you're feeding them with the MSG'd mac and cheese than their vaccinations, that will keep them from dieing of preventable diseases.

WilliamTheIrish
08-09-2005, 11:47 AM
Holden,

Contact Children's Mercy Hospital or find a website that caters to parents with children that have autism.

There's a ton of new info every day. I understand your concern. Any good parent has it. But Clint is right. The info you get here while helpful, may not apply to your son's form of autism.

Good luck.

William

Iowanian
08-09-2005, 11:49 AM
I completely agree.

Your decisions should be based on your research AND consultation with your doctor/pediatrician.

Chiefnj
08-09-2005, 11:51 AM
Here's a good quote from one of the doctors who attended the CDC meeting on the issue:

Dr. Johnson, pg. 198: "This association leads me to favor a recommendation that infants up to two years old not be immunized with Thimerosal containing vaccines if suitable alternative preparations are available. I do not believe the diagnoses justifies compensation in the Vaccine Compensation Program at this point. I deal with causality, it seems pretty clear to me that the data are not sufficient one way or the other. My gut feeling? It worries me enough. Forgive this personal comment, but I got called out a eight o'clock for an emergency call and my daughter-in-law delivered a son by C-section. Our first male in the line of the next generation, and I do not want that grandson to get a Thimerosal containing vaccine until we know better what is going on. It will probably take a long time. In the meantime, and I know there are probably implications for this internationally, but in the meantime I think I want that grandson to only be given Thimerosal-free vaccines."

So, here you have at least one scientist at the closed-door CDC meeting who recognizes an association between thimerosol and autism, who is worried about litigation and who sure as hell won't poison his own grandson with the shit.

BIG_DADDY
08-09-2005, 11:53 AM
One of the vaccines they wanted to give him was Hepatitis B. I asked them why. Because it's required for him to attend school was the answer.

I asked them if Hep B was a sexually transmitted disease and they said yes. I asked them if it was true that the large majority of small children contract it during the physical process of being born to a mother that has it. The answer again was yes.

So I asked them if the vaccine would help him if he'd already been exposed to the disease. The answer was no. I asked them how long the vaccine was effective for. The answer was about 10 years.

So they're giving a newborn child a vaccine that:

1) will not help him if he'd been exposed to the disease when he's most vulnerable -- during birth

2) won't still be effective at the time he's 2nd-most vulnerable -- his teenage years/first years of sexual activity

I refused the vaccine, and told them that his mother would have to make that call. It's required for him to attend school. And it's 100% pure stupidity.

Good job. This kind of leads into another subject we were discussing yesterday regarding the state of health care in this country. Doctors don't want to take on any more liability than they absolutely have to and have become nothing more than drug pushers for the pharmaceutical companies in many cases. You really have to take responsibility for your own state of health and question everything. The biggest problem with most people is they just do whatever the doctor says no questions asked. This was a great example of questions leading to common sense answers that can effect the health of your child.

BIG_DADDY
08-09-2005, 12:08 PM
the diseases are the diseases.....if you want to start a public health outbreak, because you don't vaccinate your kid and he/she gets exposed to Measles....be my guest.

There is a hippy college near where I live, where a bunch of those free spirt, dope smoking world travelers don't believe in vaccination. I think twice, in the past year, they've sent the entire state into a flurry trying to stamp out a communicable(and controled due to vaccinations) disease into the state/country.

There is a damn good reason, hundreds and or thousands of kids aren't dieing of Polio today, and its not because they ate their Organic Wheaties.


The smoke is making you paranoid BD. I seriously question the validity of the sources you provide, moreso than govt Health sites.

Kids get more Mercury from the vandecamps fish sticks you're feeding them with the MSG'd mac and cheese than their vaccinations, that will keep them from dieing of preventable diseases.


1. I have never said to not get the important vaccines what I said is try and find a source that is mercury free, why wouldn't you do that? Why would you want to put mercury in your body or your childs for that matter?

2. Over time I have posted very many sources and doctors which you have seen. Considering the incestuous relationship between politicians and drug companies for the life of me I have no idea why their research is the only thing you recognize as being valid. Facts are autism has grown in the past 20 years, from about one in every 2,000 children to as high as one in every 166. Facts are mercury poisoning results in autistic symptoms. Hey maybe I'm wrong but I am not going to take that chance.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/health/2002210097_autism17.html

BIG_DADDY
08-09-2005, 12:11 PM
http://www.drgreene.com/21_1891.html

WilliamTheIrish
08-09-2005, 12:21 PM
Parker, that vaccination has been going on since about 2000. Personally, I think it nuts too.

But in this day and age, with the available use of the media, one case gets recognition nationwide and all of a sudden "it's for the children."

And BAM!! You've got immunizations taking place at birth.
However, you do have to take into account that we live in a global society and you never know where the kid sitting next to yours may be from. He could be from down the street and ok, or he could be from down the street and his dad is Hbv + and the kid cut his hand on dad's razor and has an open wound.

(Far fetched I know, but you'd be surprised)

BIG_DADDY
08-09-2005, 12:21 PM
I always wondered what was wrong with you.

"The fact that Iowa's 700 percent increase in autism began in the 1990s, right after more and more vaccines were added to the children's vaccine schedules, is solid evidence alone." Last year, Iowa became the first state to ban mercury in vaccines, followed by California. Similar bans are now under consideration in 32 other states.

WilliamTheIrish
08-09-2005, 12:23 PM
Easy fellas,

remember we're here "for the children."

LOL

KC Kings
08-09-2005, 12:26 PM
Do not seek advice from an internet message board on such a serious topic.

Better yet, don't seek advice from an internet message board on any topic. :shake:

There is only one reason why the world wide web is as big as it is today, so unless you are using it for that reason take all other advise with a grain of salt.

I have a good friend whose son is severly autistic. He is smart, has done plenty of research, and it is his unprofessional oppinion that there is not enough proof to point to immunizations being the cause. He has links to thousands of medical articles and has read a ton of books and medical puibications. The problem is, in his words, that your childs normal life is taken away from him, and your family's normal life is taken away from you also. When you find this out there are a whole range of emotions that you go through, and to deal with them you would like to be able to put the blame on something or someone.

Some people are born with conditions that there is nothing to blame for. I have another good friend that had a 4 month old healthy baby boy, when he found out that his baby had Menke's disease, caused because of a lack of copper in his body. Part of his genetic makeup told his body to excrete all copper, and it resulted in his death at 18 months.

The guy with the autistic son also said that even if all cases of autism were caused by immunizations, the percentage of children with autism is far less than the number of children that would be killed or maimed by the diseases that the immunizations prevent.

MOhillbilly
08-09-2005, 12:26 PM
My position at this point is that I am not ready to risk my boy just to satisfy the schools requirements. I will have my wife homeschool rather than take the chance with my babiesí future.
Thanks in advance for any replies.
Bill

What does your GUT tell you Bill?
If it feels right, do it.

BIG_DADDY
08-09-2005, 12:29 PM
In 1977, a Russian study found that adults exposed to much lower concentrations of ethylmercury than those given to American children still suffered brain damage years later. Russia banned thimerosal from children's vaccines 20 years ago, and Denmark, Austria, Japan, Great Britain and all the Scandinavian countries have since followed suit.

"You couldn't even construct a study that shows thimerosal is safe," says Haley, who heads the chemistry department at the University of Kentucky. "It's just too darn toxic. If you inject thimerosal into an animal, its brain will sicken. If you apply it to living tissue, the cells die. If you put it in a petri dish, the culture dies. Knowing these things, it would be shocking if one could inject it into an infant without causing damage."


Iowanian,

I am sure you think all these countries are on the pipe too huh? What a bunch of fuggin idiots those guys are.

Holden McGroin
08-09-2005, 12:30 PM
Hey guys... Thanks for all the good information! I just got out of an seemingly endless meeting. When I checked my voice mail my wife said that she talked to the school again and we can sign an exemption... after all that. Any way, My wife and I agree we need to look at alternatives, whether it be herbal or traditional. This is truely good news! Thanks for all the replies, my wife will be glad to see so many people took an interest in our personal problem... I knew I could count on the planet!

Bill

Holden McGroin
08-09-2005, 12:32 PM
What does your GUT tell you Bill?
If it feels right, do it.

My gut tells me not to take the chance... Thank god we were able to get around it ...

BIG_DADDY
08-09-2005, 12:32 PM
Hey guys... Thanks for all the good information! I just got out of an seemingly endless meeting. When I checked my voice mail my wife said that she talked to the school again and we can sign an exemption... after all that. Any way, My wife and I agree we need to look at alternatives, whether it be herbal or traditional. This is truely good news! Thanks for all the replies, my wife will be glad to see so many people took an interest in our personal problem... I knew I could count on the planet!

Bill

Outstanding!!

KC Kings
08-09-2005, 12:41 PM
In 1977, a Russian study found that adults exposed to much lower concentrations of ethylmercury than those given to American children still suffered brain damage years later. Russia banned thimerosal from children's vaccines 20 years ago, and Denmark, Austria, Japan, Great Britain and all the Scandinavian countries have since followed suit.

"You couldn't even construct a study that shows thimerosal is safe," says Haley, who heads the chemistry department at the University of Kentucky. "It's just too darn toxic. If you inject thimerosal into an animal, its brain will sicken. If you apply it to living tissue, the cells die. If you put it in a petri dish, the culture dies. Knowing these things, it would be shocking if one could inject it into an infant without causing damage."



Could all current immunizations contain thimerosal? In other words would you have to specify to your doctor each time that you do not want a thimerosal product, or is it only used with certain immunizations?

Perhaps they will link thimerosal with the recent growth rate explosion in children also? There has to be some reason why I am 6'1" and half of the jr high kids in my neighborhood are taller than I am.

htismaqe
08-09-2005, 12:45 PM
Here's a good quote from one of the doctors who attended the CDC meeting on the issue:

Dr. Johnson, pg. 198: "This association leads me to favor a recommendation that infants up to two years old not be immunized with Thimerosal containing vaccines if suitable alternative preparations are available. I do not believe the diagnoses justifies compensation in the Vaccine Compensation Program at this point. I deal with causality, it seems pretty clear to me that the data are not sufficient one way or the other. My gut feeling? It worries me enough. Forgive this personal comment, but I got called out a eight o'clock for an emergency call and my daughter-in-law delivered a son by C-section. Our first male in the line of the next generation, and I do not want that grandson to get a Thimerosal containing vaccine until we know better what is going on. It will probably take a long time. In the meantime, and I know there are probably implications for this internationally, but in the meantime I think I want that grandson to only be given Thimerosal-free vaccines."

So, here you have at least one scientist at the closed-door CDC meeting who recognizes an association between thimerosol and autism, who is worried about litigation and who sure as hell won't poison his own grandson with the shit.

Actually, I think you've grossly misrepresented his statements.

He doesn't recognize an association at all. Rather, he says there's compelling, but CIRCUMSTANTIAL, evidence pointing to an association. He mentions nothing about litigation. And finally, the fact that he'd rather be safe than sorry and let the facts sort themselves out does not equal not wanting to poison his own grandson.

It's quite simple -- he said he doesn't know what the facts are. And until he knows what those facts are, he's not going to risk the health of his family.

And that's where it sits.

There's really very little concrete evidence of a link between Thimerosol and autism. On the flipside, there's very little concrete evidence of the converse. Most of the evidence of a link is convoluted by the fact that there appears to be at least some connection with metabolic factors, meaning that mercury ALONE is not the culprit, but rather a combination of factors, one of which is Thimerosol. And then I come back to my common sense argument.

Is it really necessary for kids to get 25 or even 30 vaccines before the age of 5?

htismaqe
08-09-2005, 12:47 PM
Could all current immunizations contain thimerosal? In other words would you have to specify to your doctor each time that you do not want a thimerosal product, or is it only used with certain immunizations?

Perhaps they will link thimerosal with the recent growth rate explosion in children also? There has to be some reason why I am 6'1" and half of the jr high kids in my neighborhood are taller than I am.

Most of the newer vaccines are mercury-free. The problem is that we have tons of vaccine in storage that does contain it. And there's nothing preventing the medical community from using it up, unless more states start banning it. Iowa did the right thing.

BIG_DADDY
08-09-2005, 12:54 PM
There's really very little concrete evidence of a link between Thimerosol and autism. ?

I am sure that's how all the other countries that outlawed it 20 years ago feel about it too.

In China, where the disease was virtually unknown prior to the introduction of thimerosal by U.S. drug manufacturers in 1999, news reports indicate that there are now more than 1.8 million autistics.

KC Kings
08-09-2005, 12:58 PM
I am sure that's how all the other countries that outlawed it 20 years ago feel about it too.

In China, where the disease was virtually unknown prior to the introduction of thimerosal by U.S. drug manufacturers in 1999, news reports indicate that there are now more than 1.8 million autistics.
So you are saying that 1 of every 15 million Chinese now have autism?

BIG_DADDY
08-09-2005, 01:07 PM
So you are saying that 1 of every 15 million Chinese now have autism?

I didn't do the math I am just posting numbers. It amazes me that people can't see that anything coming from the FDA and CDC is going to be tainted due to the relationship they have with the pharmaceutical companies. As htismaqe posted, how can you justify 25-30 shots before 5? When there is an incestuous relationship between the pharmaceutical companies, the FDA and the CDC that's how. Then there are those who will only going to recognize the research these guys put out to the public after they fugged up a bunch of kids? Give me a break.

Chiefnj
08-09-2005, 01:10 PM
"Actually, I think you've grossly misrepresented his statements.

He doesn't recognize an association at all. Rather, he says there's compelling, but CIRCUMSTANTIAL, evidence pointing to an association. "

His words: "This association leads me to favor a recommendation that infants up to two years old not be immunized with Thimerosal containing vaccines if suitable alternative preparations are available." There is a difference between an "association" and establishing a causal relationship via epidemiology. The latter is extremely difficult unless one were allowed to conduct nazi-like experiments.


"He mentions nothing about litigation."

Not true. His second sentence specifically says "I do not believe the diagnoses justifies compensation in the Vaccine Compensation Program at this point."

"And finally, the fact that he'd rather be safe than sorry and let the facts sort themselves out does not equal not wanting to poison his own grandson."

I disagree. You have someone on the "inside" privy to information that they were asked to keep confidential from the public. That person says "my recommendationwould be to advise NOT to vaccinate with Thimerosol if at all possible." As a doctor his recommendation is not to use it and he will tell his family not to do so, but the public wasn't given the same benefit or knowledge. That sucks. He appears to be putting his position at the CDC ahead of that of his patients.

KC Kings
08-09-2005, 01:13 PM
I didn't do the math I am just posting numbers. It amazes me that people can't see that anything coming from the FDA and CDC is going to be tainted due to the relationship they have with the pharmaceutical companies. As htismaqe posted, how can you justify 25-30 shots before 5? When there is an incestuous relationship between the pharmaceutical companies, the FDA and the CDC that's how. Then there are those who will only going to recognize the research these guys put out to the public after they fugged up a bunch of kids? Give me a break.
I was just being a smart ass anyway. If 1.8 million Chinese equals 1 in 15 million, there would have to be 27,000,000,000,000 Chinese people. There are a lot of them but not quite that many.

It was a lot funnier as I typed it, then it was when you read it. I guess you had to be here.

htismaqe
08-09-2005, 01:25 PM
"Actually, I think you've grossly misrepresented his statements.

He doesn't recognize an association at all. Rather, he says there's compelling, but CIRCUMSTANTIAL, evidence pointing to an association. "

His words: "This association leads me to favor a recommendation that infants up to two years old not be immunized with Thimerosal containing vaccines if suitable alternative preparations are available." There is a difference between an "association" and establishing a causal relationship via epidemiology. The latter is extremely difficult unless one were allowed to conduct nazi-like experiments.


"He mentions nothing about litigation."

Not true. His second sentence specifically says "I do not believe the diagnoses justifies compensation in the Vaccine Compensation Program at this point."

"And finally, the fact that he'd rather be safe than sorry and let the facts sort themselves out does not equal not wanting to poison his own grandson."

I disagree. You have someone on the "inside" privy to information that they were asked to keep confidential from the public. That person says "my recommendationwould be to advise NOT to vaccinate with Thimerosol if at all possible." As a doctor his recommendation is not to use it and he will tell his family not to do so, but the public wasn't given the same benefit or knowledge. That sucks. He appears to be putting his position at the CDC ahead of that of his patients.

Use the quote tags, I can't read your response. :)

I concede the litigation point. I don't know what I was thinking.

I still think you're reading WAY more into his statements than are actually there. He's simply saying "I don't know, there's not enough facts. But I'd rather be safe than sorry."

Iowanian
08-09-2005, 01:26 PM
Iowanian,

I am sure you think all these countries are on the pipe too huh? What a bunch of fuggin idiots those guys are.

You really want to source countries who have the idea of population control and social issues is to starve thousands of children per year in orphanages?

The stupid thing is, ALL vaccines DO NOT have the preservative. I know in Iowa at least, the MMR vaccine my wife has been issuing all day, is a powder, mixed with some liquid dilutant before injection.

I asked her about the HepB vaccine, and she said its because it is more than a "std"...its a blood born pathagen, and there are specific reasons it needs to be controled....Namely, illegals and immigrants who have NOT been vaccinated, carry the disease(as well as others) into the country. That, and people who travel to other countries, are exposed to them, and bring them back to the US.

I'm sure its pretty taxing being you BD...I mean...with the govt making your Magic Grass illegal, the Patriot act monitoring your midget porn, The City of Denver coming after your dog, the govt trying to inject the children with rat poison.............I'm getting tired just reading about your causes.

There is little doubt that Autism cases have been on the rise. I have a family member and a good friend who teach autistic kids. They work with it every day and also say there is no proof. There are Alot of environmental factors, including fish, water etc...which could be the possible source, of the possible cause of this unfortunate condition.

I don't know all the answers, but I know that my kids will be vaccinated, because I think its a risk worth taking to protect them from preventable disease that kills thousands of children in 3rd world countries.

BIG_DADDY
08-09-2005, 01:44 PM
I'm sure its pretty taxing being you BD...I mean...with the govt making your Magic Grass illegal, the Patriot act monitoring your midget porn, The City of Denver coming after your dog, the govt trying to inject the children with rat poison.............I'm getting tired just reading about your causes.

There is little doubt that Autism cases have been on the rise. I have a family member and a good friend who teach autistic kids. They work with it every day and also say there is no proof. There are Alot of environmental factors, including fish, water etc...which could be the possible source, of the possible cause of this unfortunate condition.

.

Your tired of reading about my causes? ROFL Whatever dude. The last time I posted on this was so long ago I couldn't even pull it back up and I didn't post this thread I just responded to it. My whole position on this is just that we know mercury is not good for you so why inject it if you don't have to and can find it without mercury in it? It's not my fault that you only recognize the drug pushers reports and ignore everything and everyone else.

Midget porn? OK

I haven't posted a thread on pit bulls in quite awhile. MOF I haven't been here that much lately. Yes I don't want someone coming to kill my dog, who does?

When is the last time I posted anything on the War on Drugs? The evil weed issue seems to be much more of an issue to you than me. I just want to see it decriminalized so I don't want to pay to lock up a bunch of stoners.

The personal attacks are cool though. This would of been a lot more fun if you had stayed with the thread throughout instead of hurling some fuggin personal BS after everything was done.

BIG_DADDY
08-09-2005, 01:46 PM
You really want to source countries who have the idea of population control and social issues is to starve thousands of children per year in orphanages?

.

I was unaware that Denmark, Austria, Japan, Great Britain and all the Scandinavian countries starve thousands of kids in orphanages do you have link for that?

Iowanian
08-09-2005, 01:48 PM
Your tired of reading about my causes? ROFL Whatever dude. .

I think you either misread what I wrote, or I miscommunicated my intention.

What I intended to say, was that in short....it would make me tired, to feel like the world was out to get me.

I'm not "tired of reading".....It would Make me tired, to have to fight all of those fights or whatever.

In general, it often seems like "the govt is out to get you"

BIG_DADDY
08-09-2005, 01:55 PM
I think you either misread what I wrote, or I miscommunicated my intention.

What I intended to say, was that in short....it would make me tired, to feel like the world was out to get me.

I'm not "tired of reading".....It would Make me tired, to have to fight all of those fights or whatever.

In general, it often seems like "the govt is out to get you"

I don't feel that way I just don't like overlegislation and don't feel we need a nanny government. The only reason I have passion for this subject is that I care about our BB members and think it's important they know that there is still some mercury vaccines out there and to try and avoid them whenever possible as we already know mercury is highly toxic and injecting it can not be good for you. I was never sure what motivated you to defend pharmaceutical companies as they could give a rats ass about you.

whoman69
08-09-2005, 02:02 PM
My son too has been diagnosed borderline autistic. I only wish that he had immunization for chicken pox because he had a very bad case of it for which he was hospitalized for two weeks, and it is the most likely reason for his autism. Unforunately he was too young to get the immunization and caught it from his sister, who is turn caught it from a classmate.

Iowanian
08-09-2005, 02:04 PM
I have no motivation to "Defend pharmasutical companies". I dislike alot of their practices too.

I do understand, and have been told about the danger of Mercury since I was a kid (thermostats etc).

Given the choice, and in my current circumstance, is very relevant....I would choose the vaccine without the preservative over one that contained it. I'll concede that.

That said, if the options are: 1.my child going without 2.vaccine containing this preservative

They'll be vaccinated. It isn't really an issue for me though, since Iowa doesn't have it any longer, and many of the vaccines never had it in the first place.

My specific quarrel with you and the others against, isn't the preservative....its when you tell people not to vaccinate their babies against diseases that can cripple or kill them.

Its not my intention to "get personal" or whatever with you BD....we are on oposite sides of the fence on many topics, and its not gone there...I'd prefer it not.

There isn't a poster on this board, who would care more about the welfare of the kids than I do.

whoman69
08-09-2005, 02:05 PM
Hey guys... Thanks for all the good information! I just got out of an seemingly endless meeting. When I checked my voice mail my wife said that she talked to the school again and we can sign an exemption... after all that. Any way, My wife and I agree we need to look at alternatives, whether it be herbal or traditional. This is truely good news! Thanks for all the replies, my wife will be glad to see so many people took an interest in our personal problem... I knew I could count on the planet!

Bill
While you checking those out, don't forget voodoo and prayer therapy.

BIG_DADDY
08-09-2005, 02:10 PM
Its not my intention to "get personal" or whatever with you BD....we are on oposite sides of the fence on many topics, and its not gone there...I'd prefer it not.

There isn't a poster on this board, who would care more about the welfare of the kids than I do.

I have always respected you as a poster other than an occasional jab to make a point. That's why I was a little surprised to see you go in that direction especially after all the due diligence I went through to back up my point. It's all good as it always has been and I am sure always will be. Truth be known your one of posters I would most like to hang out with and knock down some cold one's with some day soon. :toast:

penguinz
08-09-2005, 02:25 PM
BIG_DADDY... Do you drink tap water?

BIG_DADDY
08-09-2005, 02:29 PM
BIG_DADDY... Do you drink tap water?


No

penguinz
08-09-2005, 02:33 PM
Good. I think that fluoride being added to tap water is of much more concern than getting your kids immunized. There is far greater exposure to this than to any mercury that may still exist in some vaccines.

BIG_DADDY
08-09-2005, 02:42 PM
Good. I think that fluoride being added to tap water is of much more concern than getting your kids immunized. There is far greater exposure to this than to any mercury that may still exist in some vaccines.

Good water is very important.

It's just good to ask to make sure there is no mercury in there. Why wouldn't you ask?

Mosbonian
08-09-2005, 06:23 PM
whoman & Holden:

Let me speak from the voice of experience.....when your child is diagnosed as 'borderline" autistic I would press your Dr. (a Specialist I hope). When my son was young he was diagnosed as 'borderline" autistic even though he showed all the characteristics of Asperger's Autism.

When they are diagnosed as "borderline" you get thrown into a limbo that keeps you from getting all the assistance out there that your child will need as he/she grows up. In our case we paid an exhorbitant amount of money out of our own pocket to have him diagnosed by Autism Specialists, only to be told that unless his Pediatrician signed off on the diagnosis, we couldn't qualify for any assistance. So we went for several years without getting the professional guidance we needed to assist us in fighting this disease.

If your child is still young start now....don't let anyone or anything stand in your way of getting what help your child deserves. Do research on the Internet....listen to people who have been there, and can point you to the resources available. If you want i can send you several links that I have that would be helpful in learning more about Autism Spectrum Disorders.......

mmaddog
*******

Mosbonian
08-09-2005, 06:34 PM
Also.....from the voice of experience:

While I would be the very first person to tell you that stopping immunizations is the wrong path, I would also caution you to become very aware of the medicines that your child will be prescribed for their various illnesses.

While I am skeptical about Thermerisol being the cause of Autism, I am not going to let the medical or pharmaceutical community off the hook either. Until someone gives me totally convincing proof that vaccines DO NOT, in any way, have harmful effects down the road, I will turn a skeptical eye towards them too. (All one has to do is take a look at Thalidomide and it's effect on the children of women who took that to be skeptical). And remember, sometimes there is medicine that has what some call "second generation" effects...meaning it doesn't affect the person taking it, but it causes harm in their offspring.

Stopping immunizations is not the answer...education is. And never, ever be afraid to question your child's Pediatrician.

mmaddog
*******

Taco John
08-09-2005, 06:44 PM
http://www.masslive.com/metroeastplus/republican/index.ssf?/base/news-0/112296902211060.xml&coll=1

Taco John
08-09-2005, 06:53 PM
http://www.healthychild.com/news/firstmercurypoisoningcase.htm

It's amazing how some people are terrified of a little herb but have no problem pumping their kid full of mercury. As long as the gubment says there is no problem there must not be. :rolleyes:




ROFL ROFL ROFL

Calcountry
08-09-2005, 06:59 PM
whoman & Holden:

Let me speak from the voice of experience.....when your child is diagnosed as 'borderline" autistic I would press your Dr. (a Specialist I hope). When my son was young he was diagnosed as 'borderline" autistic even though he showed all the characteristics of Asperger's Autism.

When they are diagnosed as "borderline" you get thrown into a limbo that keeps you from getting all the assistance out there that your child will need as he/she grows up. In our case we paid an exhorbitant amount of money out of our own pocket to have him diagnosed by Autism Specialists, only to be told that unless his Pediatrician signed off on the diagnosis, we couldn't qualify for any assistance. So we went for several years without getting the professional guidance we needed to assist us in fighting this disease.

If your child is still young start now....don't let anyone or anything stand in your way of getting what help your child deserves. Do research on the Internet....listen to people who have been there, and can point you to the resources available. If you want i can send you several links that I have that would be helpful in learning more about Autism Spectrum Disorders.......

mmaddog
*******My son was recently diagnosed with Aspergers. I am learning, but would appreciate any info or links you could give me on the subject.

I also have a question. How come girls are never affected by these ailments?

Heck, I may have Aspergers, I just learned how to deal and no one noticed that much.

Taco John
08-09-2005, 07:04 PM
Man I can't believe the high number of people here who have kids being diagnosed with Autism... It seems inordinanely high...

Mosbonian
08-09-2005, 07:06 PM
My son was recently diagnosed with Aspergers. I am learning, but would appreciate any info or links you could give me on the subject.

I also have a question. How come girls are never affected by these ailments?

Heck, I may have Aspergers, I just learned how to deal and no one noticed that much.

bunnytrdr:

If you don't mind me asking.....how old is your son? And have they diagnosed it as 'high-functioning" Aspergers?

And girls do get affected by this.....there are a couple of girls on my son's Special Olympics swim team that have Aspergers.

The only good aspect of Asperger's is that it is not a physically apparent malady such as a "low-functioning" Autism Spectrum disorder, or Down's Syndrome.

I will send you the links by IM....

mmaddog
*******

Mosbonian
08-09-2005, 07:19 PM
Man I can't believe the high number of people here who have kids being diagnosed with Autism... It seems inordinanely high...

TJ:

There are many theories to that question....some believe that we are just more aware of the disease and that Pediatricians are less reluctant to agree with the diagnoses than in the past.

Others believe that there are drugs, preservatives, or other factors in our food system that have caused the rise in cases being diagnosed.

Either way, at least there are resources available that weren't there in the past.

mmaddog
*******

Iowanian
08-09-2005, 07:25 PM
I must admit....given the relatively small sample set, there seems to be an extreme representation of Autistic kids.

Best of luck to all of you.

Mosbonian
08-09-2005, 07:33 PM
I must admit....given the relatively small sample set, there seems to be an extreme representation of Autistic kids.

Best of luck to all of you.

At the risk of some smartass comment from someone else....you'd be surprised at the number of Autism cases here in Missouri.

mmaddog
*******

Taco John
08-09-2005, 07:35 PM
TJ:

There are many theories to that question....some believe that we are just more aware of the disease and that Pediatricians are less reluctant to agree with the diagnoses than in the past.

Others believe that there are drugs, preservatives, or other factors in our food system that have caused the rise in cases being diagnosed.

Either way, at least there are resources available that weren't there in the past.

mmaddog
*******



Personally, I think we're finding more problems because of things like finding Rocket fuel in food (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Rocket+fuel+in+food&spell=1) and also in breast milk (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=Rocket+fuel+in+breast+milk), but some people insist that it's no big deal, and are rather permissive about it.

As far as I'm concerned, *any* amount of rocket fuel is more than I want in my food... But I guess I'm a little nutty about such things.

We're a society that likes to wait until the planes are in the buildings before we do anything to address the problem...

Calcountry
08-09-2005, 07:42 PM
bunnytrdr:

If you don't mind me asking.....how old is your son? And have they diagnosed it as 'high-functioning" Aspergers?

And girls do get affected by this.....there are a couple of girls on my son's Special Olympics swim team that have Aspergers.

The only good aspect of Asperger's is that it is not a physically apparent malady such as a "low-functioning" Autism Spectrum disorder, or Down's Syndrome.

I will send you the links by IM....

mmaddog
*******He is 8 years old, and they have told us that it is "mild" and should be managable to the extent that he could lead a "productive" life.

DanT
08-09-2005, 07:49 PM
The State of California experienced a 273% increase in the number of cases of autism reported to it between 1987 and 1998. This led it to commission some studies to study the matter. I played a minor role as a statistical consultant on one the those studies, which was led by Dr. Robert Byrd.

When you see a big increase in a diagnosis of a condition that falls along a spectrum, it's natural to think that maybe the increase is due to a diagnostic shift, so that kids that would have been called one thing in 1987 were called something else in 1998. This was one of the questions Dr. Byrd's research addressed. The full report is available here:

http://www.dds.cahwnet.gov/Autism/MindReport.cfm

Here are the Major Findings from Dr. Robert Byrd's study (from the Executive Summary):


Major Findings
The major findings of this study are that:
* The observed increase in autism cases cannot be explained by a loosening in
the criteria used to make the diagnosis.
* Some children reported by the Regional Centers with mental retardation and
not autism did meet criteria for autism, but this misclassification does not
appear to have changed over time.
* Children served by the State's Regional Centers are largely native born and
there has been no major migration of children into California that would
explain the increase in autism. 
* A diagnosis of mental retardation associated with autism had declined significantly
between the two age groups.
* The percentage of parent-reported regression (loss of developmental milestones)
did not differ between the two age groups.
* Gastrointestinal symptoms in the first 15 months of life were more commonly
reported by parents in the younger group.

Without evidence for an artificial increase in autism cases, we conclude that some,
if not all, of the observed increase represents a true increase in cases of autism in
California, and the number of cases presenting to the Regional Center system is not an
overestimation of the number of children with autism in California.

We do not know all the factors that have led to a big increase in the amount of diagnosed and reported cases of autism. With regard to mercury in vaccines or any other purported cause, I would caution against concluding from the absence of evidence about its causal role that there is compelling evidence that it has no causal role. In short, the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. It's easy for intelligent laymen to overestimate just how much medical researchers know. A lot of times, medical research doesn't have the sorts of authoritative studies that one would like and scientists and laymen have to rely on intelligent extrapolations from what is known.

Here's a link to the California Department of Development Services webpage on Autism. It might be helpful to parents of a child diagnosed with autism or an autism spectrum disorder. There is help out there and a lot of parents working toward solutions!
http://www.dds.cahwnet.gov/autism/autism_main.cfm

Mosbonian
08-09-2005, 08:25 PM
He is 8 years old, and they have told us that it is "mild" and should be managable to the extent that he could lead a "productive" life.

I should warn you that will all change when they get to be 13....add Asperger's to the normal changes that happen at 13 and you find yourself ready to become a Buddhist monk contemplating your navel in the Himalayas....

mmaddog
*******

Mosbonian
08-09-2005, 08:28 PM
The State of California experienced a 273% increase in the number of cases of autism reported to it between 1987 and 1998. This led it to commission some studies to study the matter. I played a minor role as a statistical consultant on one the those studies, which was led by Dr. Robert Byrd.

When you see a big increase in a diagnosis of a condition that falls along a spectrum, it's natural to think that maybe the increase is due to a diagnostic shift, so that kids that would have been called one thing in 1987 were called something else in 1998. This was one of the questions Dr. Byrd's research addressed. The full report is available here:

http://www.dds.cahwnet.gov/Autism/MindReport.cfm

Here are the Major Findings from Dr. Robert Byrd's study (from the Executive Summary):


We do not know all the factors that have led to a big increase in the amount of diagnosed and reported cases of autism. With regard to mercury in vaccines or any other purported cause, I would caution against concluding from the absence of evidence about its causal role that there is compelling evidence that it has no causal role. In short, the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. It's easy for intelligent laymen to overestimate just how much medical researchers know. A lot of times, medical research doesn't have the sorts of authoritative studies that one would like and scientists and laymen have to rely on intelligent extrapolations from what is known.

Here's a link to the California Department of Development Services webpage on Autism. It might be helpful to parents of a child diagnosed with autism or an autism spectrum disorder. There is help out there and a lot of parents working toward solutions!
http://www.dds.cahwnet.gov/autism/autism_main.cfm


Thanks for the link.....

mmaddog
*******

Calcountry
08-09-2005, 09:57 PM
I should warn you that will all change when they get to be 13....add Asperger's to the normal changes that happen at 13 and you find yourself ready to become a Buddhist monk contemplating your navel in the Himalayas....

mmaddog
*******I remember getting so frustrated at my Mother that I banged my head.

I made it. I will do the best I can, one day at a time.

WilliamTheIrish
08-10-2005, 05:42 PM
WOW!!!

I had no idea we had so many folks here with children that have diagnosed.

You are some special people. I wish you all the best.

ENDelt260
08-10-2005, 05:57 PM
Do not seek advice from an internet message board on such a serious topic.

Better yet, don't seek advice from an internet message board on any topic. :shake:
Well, this post is just shitty advice. I wouldn't listen to it.

ENDelt260
08-10-2005, 06:07 PM
I only wish that he had immunization for chicken pox

They have that?

ENDelt260
08-10-2005, 06:10 PM
I can't believe that flouride in tapwater post flew under the radar.

Mosbonian
08-10-2005, 11:15 PM
Well, this post is just shitty advice. I wouldn't listen to it.

I agree....

mmaddog
*******

luv
08-11-2005, 01:22 AM
My older brother also lives in Marshfield. They have a son who will be 4 in November who has been diagnosed as having certain types of autism as well. I did research on it, but none on immunizations.

My mom doesn't think he's autistic like they say. She thinks it's the parenting (or lack thereof in her opinion) that has put him "behind". I think that's true to some extent due to knowing the laziness of my brother and sister-in-law, but I think she's in denial for the most part.

I know this doesn't help or give you information on what you requested, but I just thought Marshfield was a small enough town, that maybe you and my brother might know each other. I'll PM you his name.