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chagrin
08-09-2005, 12:52 PM
For the 3 of us who like Hockey...


My opinion is that he should never be allowed to play again. The reason is simple. Go back to hit. He clocked Moore on the side/temple area of his head and immediately knocked him out. Then while Moore was falling to the ground, Bertuzzi grabbed hold of him and fell on top of him, on purpose - the intent to cause serious bodily harm was there, no question.

story here (http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=2128941)


NEW YORK -- Todd Bertuzzi's NHL banishment is over, 17 months after his punch to the head of Colorado's Steve Moore.

Bertuzzi is allowed to play hockey again, Moore's injuries from the attack might make his return impossible.

The Vancouver Canucks forward was reinstated by commissioner Gary Bettman on Monday, nearly a year and a half after Bertuzzi's blindside punch left Moore with a broken neck and a murky playing future.


`I anticipate that there will be those who will say that Mr. Bertuzzi's 17-month suspension is inadequate,'' Bettman said in a statement. ``I disagree.''

Bertuzzi was suspended for the final 13 regular-season games of the 2003-04 season and the Stanley Cup playoffs. His punishment continued throughout last season's NHL lockout, which kept Bertuzzi from playing in the World Cup of Hockey last September and the past two world championships.

He also was barred from playing in any European league last season.

``In light of the unusual circumstances surrounding the 2004-05 season, it is appropriate to consider not only the significant impact the suspension has had on Mr. Bertuzzi's NHL career, but also the impact that the league's suspension has had on Mr. Bertuzzi's ability to play professional hockey anywhere during this time.''

Bertuzzi and Moore met separately with Bettman for Bertuzzi's reinstatement hearing on April 26. The Vancouver right winger needed the commissioner's approval before being allowed back into the league.

``I find that the appropriate discipline to be imposed for Mr. Bertuzzi's conduct on March 8, 2004 is the suspension that has been served to date,'' Bettman said.

``Mr. Bertuzzi's actions were deserving of an appropriately harsh sanction,'' Bettman continued, describing the hit as going ``beyond what could ever be considered acceptable behavior in the National Hockey League. Mr. Bertuzzi must be held responsible for the results of his actions, and the message must be delivered loudly and forcefully that the game will not tolerate this type of conduct.''

The suspension cost Bertuzzi $501,926.39 in salary. He is due to earn more than $5.2 million from the Canucks in the upcoming season.

As per terms of his criminal probation, Bertuzzi will not be permitted to play against Moore. That may never come to pass, however -- as Moore is still feeling effects of the hit and wasn't re-signed by the Avalanche.

``He is quite disappointed, given he is unable to resume his NHL career and may never resume his NHL career,'' Tim Danson, the lawyer representing Moore, told The Canadian Press. ``It's disappointing to him that Mr. Bertuzzi is able to resume his career at this particular time. Steve has an uncertain future. He's got health challenges to deal with.

``While he maintains a very positive attitude . . . at this point he really is in the hands of doctors who will have to make the determination whether or not he will be able to play again.''

Moore's Denver attorney, Lee Foreman, didn't immediately return a call from The Associated Press.

Bettman said in his summary statement, which consisted of 10 pages and nearly 5,000 words, that Bertuzzi's behavior will be watched closely this season.

``While I believe that reinstatement of Mr. Bertuzzi at this point in time is appropriate and consistent with a 'fresh start' for the 2005-06 season, I want to make it clear that any future acts by Mr. Bertuzzi involving a review for possible supplemental discipline will require an in-person hearing,'' Bettman said. ``If discipline is to be imposed, Mr. Bertuzzi should understand that it will be more severe than might otherwise be the case for similar acts committed by other NHL players.''

Bertuzzi was suspended indefinitely for the hit that left Moore with a broken neck, a concussion and no guarantee that he'd still be a professional hockey player. With the Avalanche ahead 8-2 in the game, Bertuzzi grabbed Moore from behind, punched him on the side of his head and then landed on top of Moore, driving his head into the ice. The bloodied Colorado player was removed on a stretcher.

The attack was seen as retaliation for a hit Moore put on Vancouver star Markus Naslund that left the Canucks captain with a concussion and sidelined him for three games.

Bertuzzi first asked for his reinstatement hearing last December, around the time he pleaded guilty in a Vancouver court to criminal assault and was given a conditional discharge. After facing up to 18 months in prison, he was given a year's probation and sentenced to 80 hours of community service.

jspchief
08-09-2005, 01:01 PM
I think the Bertuzzi thing is way overblown.

He didn't do anything worse than what happens on the ice all the time. The only difference is that the guy got a freak injury. If Moore had gotten up and fought back, all the hypocritical douche bags that want Bertuzzi in the electric chair would have been beating the glass cheering their asses off. It's an overblown reaction because of the type of injury Moore sustained.

I love how NHL fans will tell you how much fighting is an integral part of the game in one breath, then sniffle about the violence in the next. If North American hockey would just wise up and put an end to the fighting all together, none of this stupid sh*t would be happening.

chagrin
08-09-2005, 01:09 PM
I don't man, I don't consider that hit to be a regular part of hockey. I saw that game, and that hit. Dude hit the guy in the temple and wrapped himself around him and fell on top of him, that is not something that players regularly do - IMO, it was way beyond the fighting seen in the NHL on a daily basis. I don't think he should be convicted of a crime, but he should sit out more than he has.

Now, the OHL? That's a different story.

KC Kings
08-09-2005, 01:09 PM
For the 3 of us who like Hockey...


My opinion is that he should never be allowed to play again. The reason is simple. Go back to hit. He clocked Moore on the side/temple area of his head and immediately knocked him out. Then while Moore was falling to the ground, Bertuzzi grabbed hold of him and fell on top of him, on purpose - the intent to cause serious bodily harm was there, no question.


Isn't that the point of fighting? If you want to see athletes that fight other athletes only to be able puff out their chest, look tough, and never really intend to hit anybody or be hit you need to watch the NBA.

vailpass
08-09-2005, 01:12 PM
Isn't that the point of fighting? If you want to see athletes that fight other athletes only to be able puff out their chest, look tough, and never really intend to hit anybody or be hit you need to watch the NBA.


That wasn't fighting Kings, that was an all-out cheap shot from behind that broke every code known to man.
Have you seen the video? Pussy shot all the way.

KC Kings
08-09-2005, 01:18 PM
That wasn't fighting Kings, that was an all-out cheap shot from behind that broke every code known to man.
Have you seen the video? Pussy shot all the way.
Point taken, as from the aspect or respect as a man he no longer had any. What I am saying that punching somebody in the head as hard you can is OK in hockey. In thise case he got suspended because it came from behind, but that is only a technicality.

Throwing a 90 mile fast ball at somebodies head is acceptable in baseball, as long as they are looking. How much worse would it be if you threw it at them while they were walking up from the on-deck circle? It would be worse no doubt, but would it be bad enough to receive an 18 month suspension?

chagrin
08-09-2005, 01:21 PM
Isn't that the point of fighting? If you want to see athletes that fight other athletes only to be able puff out their chest, look tough, and never really intend to hit anybody or be hit you need to watch the NBA.



No, you misunderstood me - I should clarify.

I enjoy a fight like anyone who enjoys hockey, when it's part of the game, a legitimate part of the game, that was a cheap shot dude, You know it was. He jumped on Moore's back as he went down to create a harder impact on the ice, that's what made it so brutal, other than the direct hit on his tmeple.

jspchief
08-09-2005, 01:29 PM
No, you misunderstood me - I should clarify.

I enjoy a fight like anyone who enjoys hockey, when it's part of the game, a legitimate part of the game, that was a cheap shot dude, You know it was. He jumped on Moore's back as he went down to create a harder impact on the ice, that's what made it so brutal, other than the direct hit on his tmeple.When is fighting ever a legitimate part of hockey? That's absurd. If they didn't let those apes fight in the first place, they wouldn't go around punching each other.

And he didn't "jump" on his back. He fell on top of him, while continuing to throw punches. I don't think he had any idea he had knocked him out, he was just continuing the fight.

It was clearly a cheap and dirty play. But it wasn't that much more cheap and dirty than any other cheap shot that happens regularly in the NHL. Certainly not to the tune of the punishment he's received.

Like I said, if Moore had gotten up and fought back, the only punishment would have been penalty box minutes. People are just over-reacting because of the freak injury that stemmed from an action that goes on all the time.

Ari Chi3fs
08-09-2005, 01:32 PM
OH MAN, He went Bertuzzi on that ass.

[his name can be used as a verb now.] :-)

vailpass
08-09-2005, 01:35 PM
Point taken, as from the aspect or respect as a man he no longer had any. What I am saying that punching somebody in the head as hard you can is OK in hockey. In thise case he got suspended because it came from behind, but that is only a technicality.

Throwing a 90 mile fast ball at somebodies head is acceptable in baseball, as long as they are looking. How much worse would it be if you threw it at them while they were walking up from the on-deck circle? It would be worse no doubt, but would it be bad enough to receive an 18 month suspension?

Point taken, well put. I still see it more from Chagrin's POV but like everything else in sports it's all in the interpretation.

chagrin
08-09-2005, 01:40 PM
he jumped on his back and rode him down, look at the video

Bearcat
08-09-2005, 01:58 PM
Woohoo! Something to make the afternoon go by faster!
When is fighting ever a legitimate part of hockey? That's absurd. If they didn't let those apes fight in the first place, they wouldn't go around punching each other.

Like I said, if Moore had gotten up and fought back, the only punishment would have been penalty box minutes. People are just over-reacting because of the freak injury that stemmed from an action that goes on all the time.

Fighting is a legitimate part of hockey. You have 200-pound guys like Joe Sakic flying around with people that look twice his size. You have to have teammates that are willing & able to stick up for players like Joe Sakic. If there was no fighting, the only consequence someone would have to running him into the boards or taking out his knees is the fear that someone else will do the same thing.

Without fighting, there would be a LOT more of these types of plays in hockey. Without the "unwritten rule" that tough guys deal with tough guys, more guys like Todd Bertuzzi would end up fighting more guys like Steve Moore.

I think it was ENDelt I was discussing this with last time, and I compared it to baseball and football. In baseball, if a pitcher goes at someone's head, there's no consequence. If MLB would suspend anyone who left the bench 10 games, and let the pitcher and batter fight, would the number of balls going into players' earholes decrease? I think so.

In football, if a safety baptizes a receiver coming over the middle, there's no chance of anyone on the opposing team getting payback (obviously). In hockey, if Todd Bertuzzi wipes out Joe Sakic along the boards, there's a group of guys on the Avalanche willing and able to get payback by wiping him out along the boards, which is why Todd Bertuzzi should choose not to wipe out Joe Sakic. Goon vs. Goon.

Bearcat
08-09-2005, 02:10 PM
Point taken, as from the aspect or respect as a man he no longer had any. What I am saying that punching somebody in the head as hard you can is OK in hockey. In thise case he got suspended because it came from behind, but that is only a technicality.

Throwing a 90 mile fast ball at somebodies head is acceptable in baseball, as long as they are looking. How much worse would it be if you threw it at them while they were walking up from the on-deck circle? It would be worse no doubt, but would it be bad enough to receive an 18 month suspension?


I get your point, but it's a little more than a technicality. Punching someone in hockey isn't okay, unless you're fighting. I'm no doctor, but had Moore expected it, bracing for the punch or his reaction to the punch would have caused a different outcome, IMO. There had to be a severe consequence, or else it could have escalated even more. Remember, it all started because of it hit in a prior game between the two teams.

Now, this year, if two goons have dropped the gloves and are fighting, and one breaks the other's neck... STFU