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BigRedChief
08-12-2005, 07:32 AM
Okay, my family and 14K others braved the heat and went to the Royals game last night. What I saw was not a pleasant sight.

Now I grew up in Springfield listening to Jack Buck and Harry Carey on the radio. Springfield is St. Louis Cardinal baseball country. So thats how I become a fan of the Cardinals. Alot of fans here grew up watching and listening to the Royals. So you became fans of this team. But I know your pain and I see it out on the field.

Back in the late 70's the Cardinals sucked just as bad as the Royals do now. It was a painful as what you Royals fans are going through now. Players dropping easy fly balls. Lackadasial attitudes from the players. Managers and owners that don't seem to care. That was us back then. What happened was that the fans voice became so loud that ownership had to fire a long time and popular manager. They brought in Whiteyball and we got it turned around.

Yes, you have to deal with baseballs financial BS to field a winner but it will turn around. It will get better. I see the passion for the Royals here in the KC area. You want to cheer. You want to believe your team has a chance.

Whats it gonna take to turn it around? Thats the million dollar question. At the worst of our times we still had 25-30k going out to the ballpark.So they wouldn't make a change. So staying away from the ball park won't work. Waiting around for baseball to get its financial house in order will take too long. You got a new manager. So it has to be the GM or owner that goes.

Back then we knew it was a manager problem. What do you say Royals fans? Who gets the blame?

Take it from another teams fan you guys got a good necleus of fans to make the K rock again. Keep your chin up.

Simplex3
08-12-2005, 07:53 AM
Baseball's financial situation is what it is and other teams don't lose 10 straight. You can blame finances for them not getting to the playoffs but it takes a special kind of suck to be this bad. This kind of suck has to be occurring at all levels of the team.

siberian khatru
08-12-2005, 07:56 AM
Baseball's financial situation is what it is and other teams don't lose 10 straight. You can blame finances for them not getting to the playoffs but it takes a special kind of suck to be this bad. This kind of suck has to be occurring at all levels of the team.

Nailed it on the first post.

Thread over.

shakesthecat
08-12-2005, 08:02 AM
Yeah, what Simplex said.

Except that it's now 13 straight. :deevee:

beavis
08-12-2005, 08:06 AM
I think you guys are overreacting just a tad. Did anyone honestly think we would win more than 60 games this year? I sure didn't. If this same kind of thing is occuring next year, then yeah, we get a big problem. But this was to be expected.

What I would really like to know is how Joe McEwing and Denny Hocking are on the roster at the same time. It's things like that which really make me question the direction of the team.

Dr. Facebook Fever
08-12-2005, 08:15 AM
I'd like an "all of the above option." In lieu of it I'll vote for bballs financial situation. However, if Allard is reading this my vote in no way absolves you of any blame... same for you Glass you bastard.... and for you Angel Berroa, Chip Ambres, Emil Brown, John Buck, Zack Grienke, Jose Lima, Mike MacDougaland and company...

Bunch of no good........................

siberian khatru
08-12-2005, 08:19 AM
What I would really like to know is how Joe McEwing and Denny Hocking are on the roster at the same time. It's things like that which really make me question the direction of the team.

That's what people are reacting to, not the loss totals but the way the team is playing and being run. There's different ways to lose 100 games. Yes, it all adds up to the same in the end, but there's slouching toward 100 because you have no talent, fundamentals or desire, and then there's struggling to win 60 because you're young and inexperienced. One gives you hope that there's improvement and better days ahead -- that the team is working toward something. The other tells you you've just got a pile of crap sitting there and festering.

I think I've been extremely patient for 10 years, watching each youngster coming up and being optimistic about their chances. In the early 90s I told a friend that the Royals would be one of the best teams by the end of decade because of all the Johnny Damons, Michael Tuckers and Jim Pittsleys that were coming up. Well, that didn't work out, but I stayed true to the team and continued to tout each new prospect, believing that we were just 2-3 years away from assembling a young, hungry, competitive team. I thought 2003 finally had delivered, but alas, we've taken giant steps backward.

Why do we carry Hocking AND McEwing at the same time? Why does everybody jump directly from AA to the majors? Why do so many young pitchers get hurt? Why doesn't anyone take a walk around here? JoPo's column on Jeremy Affeldt the other day was very good -- the Royals have yanked him around and almost destroyed him. What's happened to Zack Greinke?

Allard's done a very good job, IMO, of trading crap for intriguing prospects. Yet, the team hasn't been able to take that next step with them. I don't see them getting better, slowly even. I see them getting worse. That 9th inning Tuesday ... my God. Maybe I'm letting one inning affect me too much, but it seemed to encapsulate everything that was wrong with this team. It was the lowest point in franchise history, IMO.

I'm not abandoning the team. I'm really not emotionally involved with it anymore, however. I'm tired of having my optimism proved wrong over and over and over again. I'm beaten down. I watch them dispassionately now, almost as a scout, just to see how they play the game. I like to see them win, but other than the 9th inning Tuesday night, I'm numb to their losses.

They really need to progress in 2006. I think the future of the franchise may hinge on it. If 2006 is a repeat of 2004 and 2005, I seriously fear for the future of the Royals in KC. I don't even need to see a repeat of 2003 in 06, I just need to see tangible progress -- guys stay healthy, young players improve, discontinuing carrying Denny Hocking and Joe McEwing on the 25-man roster at the same time.

beavis
08-12-2005, 08:28 AM
They really need to progress in 2006. I think the future of the franchise may hinge on it. If 2006 is a repeat of 2004 and 2005, I seriously fear for the future of the Royals in KC. I don't even need to see a repeat of 2003 in 06, I just need to see tangible progress -- guys stay healthy, young players improve, discontinuing carrying Denny Hocking and Joe McEwing on the 25-man roster at the same time.
Me too. But you have to admit, the vast majority of the players on the roster are very young and very inexperienced. Aside from the chumps we've already mentioned, the only other players with any kind of servicetime are Sweeney, Lima, and Stairs. I'll even throw in Brown because he's older, but even he is in his first year as a starter. I half expected this kind of thing to happen, where the grind of the season starts to wear on them and the wheels fall off. I'm just disappointed there are this many knee-jerkers around jumping off ship.

shakesthecat
08-12-2005, 09:01 AM
Me too. But you have to admit, the vast majority of the players on the roster are very young and very inexperienced. Aside from the chumps we've already mentioned, the only other players with any kind of servicetime are Sweeney, Lima, and Stairs. I'll even throw in Brown because he's older, but even he is in his first year as a starter. I half expected this kind of thing to happen, where the grind of the season starts to wear on them and the wheels fall off. I'm just disappointed there are this many knee-jerkers around jumping off ship.


Who's jumping ship?
Just because I think Baird is a moron and has proved time and time again he has no idea what he's doing, doesn't mean I'm giving up on the team.

This team is probably gonna lose 500 games in 5 years.
How many more free season passes does Baird get with you?

BigRedChief
08-12-2005, 09:40 AM
I'd like an "all of the above option." In lieu of it I'll vote for bballs financial situation. However, if Allard is reading this my vote in no way absolves you of any blame... same for you Glass you bastard.... and for you Angel Berroa, Chip Ambres, Emil Brown, John Buck, Zack Grienke, Jose Lima, Mike MacDougaland and company...

Bunch of no good........................

What really stood out for me was how they warmed up. Lackadasial. Overthrowing each other. Lazy throws. Talking instead of concentrating. Fesco was saying on the drive in that Berroa was ordering car speakers for his new car on the internet 1 hour before game time in the clubhouse.

eazyb81
08-12-2005, 09:44 AM
The answer is obviously Glass-hole. He will not spend money on free agents, he will not spend money to keep our players, and now it looks like he is not willing to spend money on draft picks (we are about to lose Gordon). How could it be anyone else's fault?

eazyb81
08-12-2005, 09:50 AM
Who's jumping ship?
Just because I think Baird is a moron and has proved time and time again he has no idea what he's doing, doesn't mean I'm giving up on the team.

This team is probably gonna lose 500 games in 5 years.
How many more free season passes does Baird get with you?

How in the world do you blame Baird for this mess? Do you really believe that he doesn't want to spend money to sign free agents, or that he doesn't want to draft the best players in every round? And if we fired Baird, do you really believe that Glass would go out and spend top dollar for the best GM candidate, or would he just hire the cheapest option, which would most likely be his son Dan?

A rotting fish rots from the head on down....Glass is the problem and will always be the problem as long as he owns the team.

Uatu
08-12-2005, 09:55 AM
The financial situation.

Demonpenz
08-12-2005, 10:02 AM
grienke and gobble the next maddux and glavine

shakesthecat
08-12-2005, 10:03 AM
How in the world do you blame Baird for this mess? Do you really believe that he doesn't want to spend money to sign free agents, or that he doesn't want to draft the best players in every round? And if we fired Baird, do you really believe that Glass would go out and spend top dollar for the best GM candidate, or would he just hire the cheapest option, which would most likely be his son Dan?

A rotting fish rots from the head on down....Glass is the problem and will always be the problem as long as he owns the team.

Do you blame Lamar Hunt when the Chiefs have a bad year?
I don't.

I'm not trying to say Glass is without blame, but he signs who Baird tells him to.

Baird is the one who wanted Juan Gone and Santiago, and Glass wrote the check.

If Glass the one who made the decision to callup Hocking, while Diaz pounds the cover off the ball in Omaha? Gawd knows a team needs 2 utility IF's
Is Glass the one who demanded the Dodgers give up 2 top prospects for Stairs when 1 would have been more than fair.
Is Glass the one who decided after 1 good year to give Berroa a multi year deal?

I could go on and on.

I'd love to see Glass sell the team, but until then, the moron making the personel decisions needs to be held accountable.

eazyb81
08-12-2005, 10:10 AM
Do you blame Lamar Hunt when the Chiefs have a bad year?
I don't.

I'm not trying to say Glass is without blame, but he signs who Baird tells him to.

Baird is the one who wanted Juan Gone and Santiago, and Glass wrote the check.

If Glass the one who made the decision to callup Hocking, while Diaz pounds the cover off the ball in Omaha? Gawd knows a team needs 2 utility IF's
Is Glass the one who demanded the Dodgers give up 2 top prospects for Stairs when 1 would have been more than fair.
Is Glass the one who decided after 1 good year to give Berroa a multi year deal?

I could go on and on.

I'd love to see Glass sell the team, but until then, the moron making the personel decisions needs to be held accountable.

Do you think Baird really wants to sign cheap free agents, or would he rather go out and sign the elite guys? Do you really think Baird wants to pennypinch with Gordon instead of having him in Wichita by now?

Baird does what Glass tells him to do, not the other way around. Baird didn't decide to have the 2nd lowest payroll in the majors, Glass did. Baird didn't decide to lower the funding for scouting, Glass did.

elvomito
08-12-2005, 10:15 AM
blame whoever got rid of damon, dye, beltran, etc

shakesthecat
08-12-2005, 10:22 AM
Do you think Baird really wants to sign cheap free agents, or would he rather go out and sign the elite guys? Do you really think Baird wants to pennypinch with Gordon instead of having him in Wichita by now?

Baird does what Glass tells him to do, not the other way around. Baird didn't decide to have the 2nd lowest payroll in the majors, Glass did. Baird didn't decide to lower the funding for scouting, Glass did.


Other teams with low payrolls have figured out how not to lose 100 games every year.

The A's have almost completely turned over their roster the past 4 years. They're aren't spending big $ on free agents. A yet, somehow they remain competitive.

Is Lewis Wolff that much smarter and richer than Glass, or is Baird that much dumber than Beane.

Considering how Beane bends Baird over on every trade, I'd say the latter.

eazyb81
08-12-2005, 10:28 AM
Other teams with low payrolls have figured out how not to lose 100 games every year.

The A's have almost completely turned over their roster the past 4 years. They're aren't spending big $ on free agents. A yet, somehow they remain competitive.

Is Lewis Wolff that much smarter and richer than Glass, or is Baird that much dumber than Beane.

Considering how Beane bends Baird over on every trade, I'd say the latter.

I will be the first to say that Billy Beane is a genious, he is by far the best GM in baseball. What he does with that organization is amazing. But you have to realize that Billy Beane is one guy, it's not like there are other Billy Beane's out there right now. It's not like Billy Beane is just that much better then Baird, it's more like he is that much better then everyone else.

If we did end up firing Baird, what do you really think would happen? Would Glass scour the globe looking for the brightest, most innovative man for the position, no matter what the cost is? Or would he look for a quick fix that also happened to be extremely cost-efficient (Dan Glass, Muzzy Jackson)? Going on past history, I'd say the latter.

shakesthecat
08-12-2005, 10:48 AM
I will be the first to say that Billy Beane is a genious, he is by far the best GM in baseball. What he does with that organization is amazing. But you have to realize that Billy Beane is one guy, it's not like there are other Billy Beane's out there right now. It's not like Billy Beane is just that much better then Baird, it's more like he is that much better then everyone else.

If we did end up firing Baird, what do you really think would happen? Would Glass scour the globe looking for the brightest, most innovative man for the position, no matter what the cost is? Or would he look for a quick fix that also happened to be extremely cost-efficient (Dan Glass, Muzzy Jackson)? Going on past history, I'd say the latter.


I don't know what Glass would do. I'd like to think owning the worst team in baseball wasn't something he dreamed about as a kid. At some point I would hope pride would kick in, and he would do whatever necessary to field a decent team. Maybe I'm kidding myself about that though.

Not that I'm advocating him, but could Muzzy really do any worse?
Hell I'd be willing to let petez28 have a crack at it, at this point.

Baird has had 5 years and has done nothing to show he deserves another day on the job, IMO.

KCTitus
08-12-2005, 11:01 AM
Do you think Baird really wants to sign cheap free agents, or would he rather go out and sign the elite guys? Do you really think Baird wants to pennypinch with Gordon instead of having him in Wichita by now?

Baird does what Glass tells him to do, not the other way around. Baird didn't decide to have the 2nd lowest payroll in the majors, Glass did. Baird didn't decide to lower the funding for scouting, Glass did.

Do you really think that Glass is going to spend 100+M dollars just to lose 50+M? You're kidding yourself. If you want that, I'd suggest becoming a fan of the Yankees or Boston or Atlanta. That's never going to happen in KC regardless of who the owner is.

eazyb81
08-12-2005, 11:15 AM
Do you really think that Glass is going to spend 100+M dollars just to lose 50+M? You're kidding yourself. If you want that, I'd suggest becoming a fan of the Yankees or Boston or Atlanta. That's never going to happen in KC regardless of who the owner is.

Where did I say that I expect him to spend 100 million on payroll? There is a large gap between 30 million and 100 million, it would be nice if we could fall somewhere inbetween, say around 50 or 60. He might not turn a profit the first year or two, but it could eventually pay off with fans being excited about the Royals again.

Honestly though, I would be fine if we just funneled the majority of our revenue into scouting and drafting players instead of free agency. However, Glass has shown he wants to go cheap on that end as well.

KCTitus
08-12-2005, 11:22 AM
Where did I say that I expect him to spend 100 million on payroll? There is a large gap between 30 million and 100 million, it would be nice if we could fall somewhere inbetween, say around 50 or 60. He might not turn a profit the first year or two, but it could eventually pay off with fans being excited about the Royals again.

Honestly though, I would be fine if we just funneled the majority of our revenue into scouting and drafting players instead of free agency. However, Glass has shown he wants to go cheap on that end as well.

I honestly dont know, but do you know if Glass is turning a profit today? I have a hard time believing he is. Paid attendance isnt where the mon-ay is anyway, it's in TV and Ad revenues--something that puts KC at a large disadvantage.

If Glass were making money like Hunt and still not spending money, you'd have a point, I just dont think they have the money.

KCTitus
08-12-2005, 11:23 AM
blame whoever got rid of damon, dye, beltran, etc

They were FA's that went to a higher bidder...the crux of the issue.

eazyb81
08-12-2005, 11:27 AM
I honestly dont know, but do you know if Glass is turning a profit today? I have a hard time believing he is. Paid attendance isnt where the mon-ay is anyway, it's in TV and Ad revenues--something that puts KC at a large disadvantage.

If Glass were making money like Hunt and still not spending money, you'd have a point, I just dont think they have the money.

I would almost guarantee Glass is making money this year, he is receiving 19 mill in revenue sharing this year and is only spending 38 mill on salary.

It's too bad baseball teams don't open their books so we can see exactly how much is coming in and how much is going out.

StcChief
08-12-2005, 11:29 AM
Glass being a cheap a$$.
Players that don't care at this point.

KCTitus
08-12-2005, 11:38 AM
I would almost guarantee Glass is making money this year, he is receiving 19 mill in revenue sharing this year and is only spending 38 mill on salary.

It's too bad baseball teams don't open their books so we can see exactly how much is coming in and how much is going out.

Looks to me like he needs to find another 20M or so to just break even. Tall order in the KC market. Ok, so lets assume that he's making a profit. What would be your guess of how much profit the Royals make?

Dr. Facebook Fever
08-12-2005, 01:29 PM
What really stood out for me was how they warmed up. Lackadasial. Overthrowing each other. Lazy throws. Talking instead of concentrating. Fesco was saying on the drive in that Berroa was ordering car speakers for his new car on the internet 1 hour before game time in the clubhouse.
Guess Berroa figures he should at least do one productive thing during the day.

I'd like to know what the hell happened to the stuff we kept hearing when Buddy Bell was hired... "with Buddy Bell as manager, this team will want to win again. He will instill that in them." I heard that from 3 or 4 national sports guys. Then we go out and sweep the Yankees. WTF has happened to all of that?