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View Full Version : San Francisco says "No" to USS Iowa


Brock
08-20-2005, 02:47 PM
San Francisco Shuns Retired USS Iowa By BRIAN SKOLOFF, Associated Press Writer
Sat Aug 20,12:24 PM ET

SAN FRANCISCO - The USS Iowa joined in battles from World War II to Korea to the Persian Gulf. It carried President Franklin Roosevelt home from the Teheran conference of allied leaders, and four decades later, suffered one of the nation's most deadly military accidents.


Veterans groups and history buffs had hoped that tourists in San Francisco could walk the same teak decks where sailors dodged Japanese machine-gun fire and fired 16-inch guns that helped win battles across the South Pacific.

Instead, it appears that the retired battleship is headed about 80 miles inland, to Stockton, a gritty agricultural port town on the San Joaquin River and home of California's annual asparagus festival.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein (news, bio, voting record), D-Calif., a former San Francisco mayor, helped secure $3 million to tow the Iowa from Rhode Island to the Bay Area in 2001 in hopes of making touristy Fisherman's Wharf its new home.

But city supervisors voted 8-3 last month to oppose taking in the ship, citing local opposition to the Iraq war and the military's stance on gays, among other things.

"If I was going to commit any kind of money in recognition of war, then it should be toward peace, given what our war is in Iraq right now," Supervisor Ross Mirkarimi said.

Feinstein called it a "very petty decision."

"This isn't the San Francisco that I've known and loved and grew up in and was born in," Feinstein said.

San Francisco's maritime museum already has one military vessel the USS Pampanito, an attack submarine that sank six Japanese ships during World War II and has about 110,000 visitors a year.

Officials in Stockton couldn't be happier. They've offered a dock on the river, a 90,000-square-foot waterfront building and a parking area, and hope to attract at least 125,000 annual visitors.

After the Korean war, the Iowa was decommissioned and placed in reserve in a Philadelphia shipyard for three decades. In 1988, it was recalled to duty escorting oil supply ships safely in and out danger in the Persian Gulf. In 1989, 47 sailors were killed in an explosion that tore through a gun turret during a training exercise.

The warship, decommissioned by the Navy in 1990, is currently anchored with a mothballed fleet in Suisun Bay, near the mouth of the San Joaquin-Sacramento River Delta.

San Francisco's rejection of such a storied battleship is a slap in the nation's face, said Douglass Wilhoit, head of Stockton's Chamber of Commerce.

"We're lucky our men and women have sacrificed their lives ... to protect our freedom," Wilhoit said. "Wherever you stand on the war in Iraq ... you shouldn't make a decision based on philosophy."

Rep. Richard W. Pombo, R-Calif., has sponsored legislation authorizing the ship's permanent move to Stockton. Feinstein has countered with a bill to open bidding to any California city.

The two versions will have to be reconciled by a House-Senate conference committee considering the Pentagon spending bill.

mlyonsd
08-20-2005, 02:51 PM
More proof that San Francisco is the home of more fugtards per capita then any other city in the US.

DanT
08-20-2005, 02:55 PM
The USS Pampanito is pretty interesting. I checked it out earlier this year. It was fun to see how it compared to the Los Angeles class attack submarine that my brother jettio is a plank-owner on. I got to take a Dad's Day cruise from Newport News to Charleston on that one.

I'll proably try to make it down to Stockton someday to check out the USS Iowa. Stockton's not too far from Sacramento. In fact, my office window looks out on Stockton Blvd., which used to be the main road between the two towns, until Highway 99 replaced it in the 1960's.

Saulbadguy
08-20-2005, 02:55 PM
Why don't they move the USS Iowa to Iowa?

mlyonsd
08-20-2005, 03:00 PM
Why don't they move the USS Iowa to Iowa?

You'd think if they could load the space shuttle onto the back of a 747 they could do it with a battleship too.

Saulbadguy
08-20-2005, 03:04 PM
You'd think if they could load the space shuttle onto the back of a 747 they could do it with a battleship too.
Just have Jack Lalane pull it with his teeth.

mlyonsd
08-20-2005, 03:07 PM
Just have Jack Lalane pull it with his teeth.

I wonder what the displacement is and if it could make it up the Mississippi. I'm not aware of any dams or locks south of Iowa but am too lazy to go look.

whoman69
08-20-2005, 03:28 PM
Why don't they move the USS Iowa to Iowa?
Was that you or Latka asking that question?

DanT
08-20-2005, 03:34 PM
I wonder what the displacement is and if it could make it up the Mississippi. I'm not aware of any dams or locks south of Iowa but am too lazy to go look.

Her displacement is 45,000 tons, according to Wikipedia.org:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Iowa_%28BB-61%29

mlyonsd
08-20-2005, 03:41 PM
Her displacement is 45,000 tons, according to Wikipedia.org:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Iowa_%28BB-61%29

DanT is the man.

The link says the Iowa's draft is 37 feet.....which I'm guessing would never make it to Iowa. Cool idea though.

go bowe
08-20-2005, 04:14 PM
DanT is the man.

The link says the Iowa's draft is 37 feet.....which I'm guessing would never make it to Iowa. Cool idea though.i'm a little surprised that the iowa's draft is only 37 feet...

she's one big chunk of steel...

those people in san francisco are out of their minds...

the tourist dollars alone would be reason enough to do it...

i wish we could dredge out the missouri river about 30 feet deeper... :( :( :(

DanT
08-20-2005, 04:23 PM
You'd think if they could load the space shuttle onto the back of a 747 they could do it with a battleship too.

Here's a picture of the Space Shuttle piggybacking on a 747 when it visited Kansas City International back in the 1980's. Two magnificent aircraft at a great airport!

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/068078/L

go bowe
08-20-2005, 04:28 PM
Here's a picture of the Space Shuttle piggybacking on a 747 when it visited Kansas City International back in the 1980's. Two magnificient aircraft at a great airport!

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/068078/L i took the wife and kids to see that...

simply astonishing...

HC_Chief
08-20-2005, 04:41 PM
Holy shit, you know you're a complete ass if DIANNE FEINSTEIN calls your uber liberal act petty! :eek:

Baby Lee
08-20-2005, 04:42 PM
Don't be surprised if somewhere, way down, the reason the Castro district was created is behind some of this sentiment.

Baby Lee
08-20-2005, 04:43 PM
I wonder what the displacement is and if it could make it up the Mississippi. I'm not aware of any dams or locks south of Iowa but am too lazy to go look.
Melvin Price. Alton, IL. 20 Mi north of St. Louis.

mlyonsd
08-20-2005, 04:49 PM
Holy shit, you know you're a complete ass if DIANNE FEINSTEIN calls your uber liberal act petty! :eek:

I thought that myself.....kudos to the ole hag for calling it like it is.

mlyonsd
08-20-2005, 04:50 PM
Melvin Price. Alton, IL. 20 Mi north of St. Louis.

I'm learning new stuff everyday. Thanks.

Iowanian
08-20-2005, 05:12 PM
It'll be a damn shame when Kalifornia drops into the ocean.

Boyceofsummer
08-21-2005, 03:09 AM
let one of the great American military naval artifacts leave for California in the first place? Maybe so Japanese tourists have less distance to travel in order to see this marvel of naval history? :shrug:

BigOlChiefsfan
08-21-2005, 07:04 AM
"Rep. Richard W. Pombo, R-Calif., has sponsored legislation authorizing the ship's permanent move to Stockton. Feinstein has countered with a bill to open bidding to any California city."

Gunboat diplomacy

Electric
08-21-2005, 07:24 AM
The USS Missouri Museum is currently open for business next to the USS Arizona. They charge $10.00 to walk the decks and to go through a few of the spaces once occupied by the sailors and marines assigned to the ship.

You can now rent a room onboard for a nominal fee, I'm not sure what that is though. Last summer I was there and visited the ship. They were removing asbestos from the ship so you could visit more of the spaces. I'm sure that SF would have to spend quite a chunk of money to get the ex-USS Iowa into shape for visitors.

I'd say that a better place for the ship might be Long Beach, one of it's old homeports. Regardless of where it ends up, the issue is money to rehab the ship. Would it be worth the cost? What would the ROI be for whoever gets it into shape for visits?

As for San Francisco, they are PC'ing themselves into oblivion. You can't do things there that normal cities allow and they allow things there that most normal people would shudder to even think about. (Mabye we can send DUHnese there, her liberal stance would fit in nicely.)

StcChief
08-21-2005, 08:42 AM
F. Gay SF. wait they already are...f'ed up.

Put it in Long beach or SD. where they appreciate what our military.

alnorth
08-21-2005, 06:17 PM
When Dianne freaking Feinstein condemns you as a left wing wacko...

Youve got problems.

jAZ
08-21-2005, 06:21 PM
Brock and Diane Feinstein sitting in a tree...

Logical
08-21-2005, 08:48 PM
...
As for San Francisco, they are PC'ing themselves into oblivion. You can't do things there that normal cities allow and they allow things there that most normal people would shudder to even think about....
I think this is a stupid publicity stunt on SF's part but frankly SF is the last place in the US in need of more tourists and Fisherman's Wharf for damn sure does not need another attraction. Economically this is not going to mean diddly squat to SF.

Would love to see the Iowa in San Diego's harbor though.

vailpass
08-22-2005, 04:03 PM
I think this is a stupid publicity stunt on SF's part but frankly SF is the last place in the US in need of more tourists and Fisherman's Wharf for damn sure does not need another attraction. Economically this is not going to mean diddly squat to SF.

Would love to see the Iowa in San Diego's harbor though.


Hands-down the coolest tour out there is the Midway in San Diego. They have the whole thing rigged to provide you with recorded details about anything you want to know, there are Midway veterans on board to tell stories and anser questions, it's just awesome.

http://www.midway.org/site/pp.asp?c=coIMKTMCF&b=81432

Oh yeah, and **** the city by the bay. That place is a luxury that America may one day not be able to afford.

Donger
08-22-2005, 04:07 PM
Anyone ever been aboard the USS Nautilus? I was up in Connecticut on business a few years ago, and was driving along and saw the sign for the museum. That was a hoot.

MOhillbilly
08-22-2005, 04:49 PM
Fn commies........loads shotgun & prepares for the final attack!

BIG_DADDY
08-22-2005, 05:19 PM
It's the Peoples Republic of California out here what did you expect? Get rid of guns and dogs and grab your buddies knob is what it's all about out here. Public employees want a sex change on city coin, no problem. It's probably the only place it the good ol USofA that has people protest fleet week.

jiveturkey
08-22-2005, 05:21 PM
Oh yeah, and **** the city by the bay. That place is a luxury that America may one day not be able to afford.What does that mean?

Kooky cities are going to be sold off???

KC Dan
08-22-2005, 05:24 PM
It's the Peoples Republic of California out here what did you expect? Get rid of guns and dogs and grab your buddies knob is what it's all about out here. Public employees want a sex change on city coin, no problem. It's probably the only place it the good ol USofA that has people protest fleet week.
I wonder if I could rent a pitbull to walk in a public park and bite the freaks while I'm there tomorrow.

BIG_DADDY
08-22-2005, 05:26 PM
I wonder if I could rent a pitbull to walk in a public park and bite the freaks while I'm there tomorrow.

You going to be around tomorrow?

KC Dan
08-22-2005, 05:28 PM
You going to be around tomorrow?
Yeah, fly in tomorrow morning - do my business at Intel development fab, hotel it tomorrow night & fly out Wednesday morning.

BIG_DADDY
08-22-2005, 05:29 PM
Yeah, fly in tomorrow morning - do my business at Intel development fab, hotel it tomorrow night & fly out Wednesday morning.

Sounds like your time is all taken up.

KC Dan
08-22-2005, 05:30 PM
Sounds like your time is all taken up.
Got tomorrow night open, sushi???

BIG_DADDY
08-22-2005, 05:33 PM
Got tomorrow night open, sushi???

Where are you staying?

KC Dan
08-22-2005, 05:34 PM
Where are you staying?
PM'ing now

Loki
08-22-2005, 09:37 PM
san f a g-cisco sucks.

:mad:

MOhillbilly
08-23-2005, 09:18 AM
It's the Peoples Republic of California out here what did you expect? Get rid of guns and dogs and grab your buddies knob is what it's all about out here. Public employees want a sex change on city coin, no problem. It's probably the only place it the good ol USofA that has people protest fleet week.


Man you ever read the Turner Diaries?
Once you get past the laughable "day of the rope" and all the "race war" BS its interesting what happens in California.

Duck Dog
08-23-2005, 01:21 PM
Holy shit, you know you're a complete ass if DIANNE FEINSTEIN calls your uber liberal act petty! :eek:

No kidding. The people of San Fransisco don't deserve a monument like the Iowa.

BIG_DADDY
08-23-2005, 02:26 PM
No kidding. The people of San Fransisco don't deserve a monument like the Iowa.


Funny thing is Feinswine was the one that started taking us down this road to begin with.

For the 4th of July she did a speach at Shoreline Amitheatre where they do the SF symphony and fireworks show. I booed her really loud from the seats I got comped to me right ou front. I thought they would kick me out but they didn't. I really enjoy doing stuff like that but embarrasses the hell out of lil momma. I really pissed off some flaming liberals too which was just an added bonus.

Saggysack
08-23-2005, 02:31 PM
SanFran didn't reject the Iowa, you idiots.

It was written in HR 1815 Fiscal Year 2006 National Defense Authorization Act, Section 1014 that the Iowa is going to be transfered from SanFran, Ca. to Stockton, Ca.. San francisco has no say in the matter.

If there is anyone you want to thank for this move of the Iowa, thank Republican Congressman Duncan Hunter for sneaking in the legislation to do it.

Brock
08-23-2005, 02:43 PM
SanFran didn't reject the Iowa, you idiots.

It was written in HR 1815 Fiscal Year 2006 National Defense Authorization Act, Section 1014 that the Iowa is going to be transfered from SanFran, Ca. to Stockton, Ca.. San francisco has no say in the matter.

If there is anyone you want to thank for this move of the Iowa, thank Republican Congressman Duncan Hunter for sneaking in the legislation to do it.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein (news, bio, voting record), D-Calif., a former San Francisco mayor, helped secure $3 million to tow the Iowa from Rhode Island to the Bay Area in 2001 in hopes of making touristy Fisherman's Wharf its new home.

I guess the article lied then.

Saggysack
08-23-2005, 02:49 PM
I guess the article lied then.

Take a look at the text of the bill.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h109-1815

Area 51
08-23-2005, 02:49 PM
SanFran didn't reject the Iowa, you idiots.

It was written in HR 1815 Fiscal Year 2006 National Defense Authorization Act, Section 1014 that the Iowa is going to be transfered from SanFran, Ca. to Stockton, Ca.. San francisco has no say in the matter.

If there is anyone you want to thank for this move of the Iowa, thank Republican Congressman Duncan Hunter for sneaking in the legislation to do it.

If you check out the transfer of old Navy ships to museums you will find that there is an NDAA written to authorize the move and transfer from the Navy list to the museum.

I don't think it is a sneak in type situation, it was a necessity to pay to move the ship from the bone yard to a repair/rebuild type facility.

Saggysack
08-23-2005, 02:53 PM
If you check out the transfer of old Navy ships to museums you will find that there is an NDAA written to authorize the move and transfer from the Navy list to the museum.

I don't think it is a sneak in type situation, it was a necessity to pay to move the ship from the bone yard to a repair/rebuild type facility.

from the USS Iowa website...

We are presently confronted with an issue that is time sensitive in nature and requires that all of us participate in a letter writing campaign that will help influence the outcome of possible alternatives. As you may or may not know, a member of the House of Representatives recently placed Bill HR1815 legislation in the Fiscal Year 2006 National Defense Authorization Act, Section 1014 titled "TRANSFER OF U.S.S. IOWA". The issue of concern is the written content of the bill which states that IOWA will be transferred to the port of Stockton, CA when IOWA is reclassified to donation status. It appears that he sneaked a piece of legislation into the Bill which we consider as an egregious attempt to bypass the US Navy Donation Program presently in place. The Program insures that a naval vessel being considered for donation to all qualified applicants is 1) open to all cities who file an application to acquire a naval vessel for museum status, and 2) guarantees that a naval vessel must comply to Navy protocol and standards worthy of museum/memorial status. If passed as written, the legislation basically tells the Navy what they can and can't do when it comes to inactive vessels, thus threatening the future of the program The Senate is in the process of preparing their version of the bill for consideration in conference to finalize the Fiscal Year 2006 National Defense Authorization Act.

Brock
08-23-2005, 02:56 PM
Take a look at the text of the bill.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h109-1815

Feinstein introduced legislation of her own that would open bidding to any California city. Obviously, SF has declined to participate. So, while you weren't necessarily wrong, you don't have all the facts.

http://www.kron.com/Global/story.asp?S=3632457

Area 51
08-23-2005, 04:24 PM
from the USS Iowa website...

I can't say that I've seen this before, but one would think that if a ship were going to be given to someone as a museum it would more than likely go to the namesake. In this case the Iowa could not go to Iowa due to logistical problems, but California seems to be quite a stretch for a museum for the Iowa, SF or Stockton.

The Missouri is located at Pearl Harbor next to the Arizona, which is not in standing with the comment above, but it seems appropriate as PH is where WWII started and the Missouri is where the Japanese signed the documents ending their war with the U.S.

I don't believe that the Iowa was even homeported in California. Someone would need to check records but I thought that each coast had two BB's. Once while visiting Long Beach I saw the Missouri and the Wisconsin. Maybe they were visiting, but who knows?

listopencil
08-24-2005, 04:41 PM
It'll be a damn shame when Kalifornia drops into the ocean.



We just need to stage a revolution here in the People's Republic Of California or wait for that big quake to wipe out the Southern part. Those people are huge piles of dogshit for voting it down. On the other hand, I think Stockton is closer to where I am than San Francisco. I'm going to have to plan a trip when this is all done up. Sounds like a great trip to take the kids with me.

Frazod
08-24-2005, 09:47 PM
Feinstein called it a "very petty decision."

"This isn't the San Francisco that I've known and loved and grew up in and was born in," Feinstein said.

:spock:

Apparently she doesn't spend much time there.

I've never been there in my life, and this doesn't surprise me one goddamned bit.

BTW, I saw the USS Iowa fire her 16" guns during the summer of '84 at Guantanamo Bay. It was awesome. Glad she'll still be around.

Garcia Bronco
08-25-2005, 02:16 PM
I hate the ship the IOWA...but that becuase growing up in a port town on the east coast...the last 4 of our phone number spelled IOWA...so as you can imagine...we got calls at all hours of the night...asking about the ship. LOL...We should have sued.

Garcia Bronco
08-25-2005, 02:17 PM
I can't say that I've seen this before, but one would think that if a ship were going to be given to someone as a museum it would more than likely go to the namesake. In this case the Iowa could not go to Iowa due to logistical problems, but California seems to be quite a stretch for a museum for the Iowa, SF or Stockton.

The Missouri is located at Pearl Harbor next to the Arizona, which is not in standing with the comment above, but it seems appropriate as PH is where WWII started and the Missouri is where the Japanese signed the documents ending their war with the U.S.

I don't believe that the Iowa was even homeported in California. Someone would need to check records but I thought that each coast had two BB's. Once while visiting Long Beach I saw the Missouri and the Wisconsin. Maybe they were visiting, but who knows?

It was home ported for a time in Norfolk, VA

Rain Man
08-25-2005, 03:40 PM
BTW, I saw the USS Iowa fire her 16" guns during the summer of '84 at Guantanamo Bay. It was awesome. Glad she'll still be around.

You've been to Cuba? That's way cool.

Area 51
08-25-2005, 03:56 PM
You've been to Cuba? That's way cool.

Guantanamo Bay Cuba used to be the refresher training base for the entire east coast Navy. If someone was in the Navy and on the east coast there is a large chance they were there.

After the Bay of Pigs episode the gates were permanently closed. No outside fun and games with the locals!!