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Logical
08-20-2005, 03:31 PM
The Catholic Church burned at the stake approximately 4 million people with 85% of them women. Talk about Barbaric the Muslims seem like amateurs in comparison.
The first major witch-hunt occurred in Switzerland in 1427. The persecution of witches reached its height between 1580 and 1660, when witch trials became almost universal throughout western Europe. (Grollier)

No certain figures exist for the exact number of people who were killed but some scholars put it as high as four million. Significantly, 85 percent of those killed were women, varying in age from young children to old women. Certainly some of these women were witches or thought they were, but by far the larger number were victims of false accusations based on an excessive misogyny sanctioned by Christianity. (Young)

Traditional theology assumed that women were weaker than men and more likely to succumb to the devil. It may in fact be true that, having few legal rights, they were more inclined to settle quarrels by resorting to magic rather than law.

Geographically, the center of witch-burning lay in Germany, Austria, and Switzerland, but few areas were left untouched by it. No one knows the total number of victims. In southwestern Germany alone, however, more than 3,000 witches were executed between 1560 and 1680. Not all witch trials ended in deaths. In England, where torture was prohibited, only about 20 percent of accused witches were executed (by hanging); in Scotland, where torture was used, nearly half of all those put on trial were burned at the stake, and almost three times as many witches (1,350) were killed as in England. Some places had fewer trials than others. In the Dutch republic, no witches were executed after 1600, and none were tried after 1610. In Spain and Italy accusations of witchcraft were handled by the Inquisition, and although torture was legal, only a dozen witches were burned out of 5,000 put on trial. Ireland apparently escaped witch trials altogether. (Young)

The chronicler of Treves reported that in the year 1586, the entire female population of two villages was wiped out by the inquisitors, except for only two women left alive. A hundred and thirty-three persons were burned in a single day at Quedlinburg in 1589, out of a town of 12,000. Henri Boguet said Germany in 1590 was "almost entirely occupied with building fires (for witches); and Switzerland has been compelled to wipe out many of her villages on their account. Travelers in Lorraine may see thousands and thousands of the stakes to which witches are bound." In 1524, one thousand witches died at Como. Strasbourg burned five thousand in a period of 20 years. The Senate of Savoy condemned 800 witches at one time. Param stated that over thirty thousand were executed in the 15th century. Nicholas Remy said he personally sentenced 800 witches in 15 years and in one year alone forced sixteen witches to suicide. A bishop of Bamberg claimed 600 witches in 10 years; a bishop of Nancy, 800 in 16 years; a bishop of Wurtzburg, 1900 in 5 years. Five hundred were executed within three months at Geneva and 400 in a single day at Toulouse. The city of Traves burned 7,000 witches. The Lutheran prelate Benedict Carpzov, who claimed to have read the Bible 53 times, sentenced 20,000 devil-worshippers. Even relatively permissive England killed 30,000 witches between 1542 and 1736. The slaughter went on throughout Christian Europe for nearly five centuries.
http://www.dhushara.com/book/death/death2.htm

DanT
08-20-2005, 03:39 PM
A couple of weeks ago, there was a cool story in the Boston Globe. If you don't want to register at the boston.com website, according to www.bugmenot.com, you can login using "bugmenot" as both the login name and the password:


http://www.boston.com/news/globe/magazine/articles/2005/08/07/the_redemption_of_shane_paul_odoherty/


The Redemption of Shane Paul O'Doherty
He was a teenage terrorist. He tried to kill a bishop. After 14 years in prison, he got married. Now the Catholic Church wants him to become a priest. Is no man beyond salvation?
By Kevin Cullen | August 7, 2005


...

"At its best, Catholicism has great magnanimity," Groome says. "We believe in last-minute conversions. We like the story of the good thief who repented on the cross. O'Doherty's life story is about redemption, but it redeems all of us. The great saint, the great soldier, and the great lover are all similar. They are gamblers, full of idealism, looking for a noble cause."

Adept Havelock
08-20-2005, 03:56 PM
Yep, in those days, any women deemed "Uppity" could almost certainly count on being accused as a witch, and killed.

Sadly, there are still a few (thankfully very few) who still believe in this behaivor..all over a little misunderstanding of the word "witch" for an ancient (hebrew, greek or aramiac, I forget) word for "poisoner".

In other words....not suffering a "poisoner" to live is just good policy. Nor suffering a "witch" to live..bad idea. Some of the most uninhibited women I've ever met and enjoyed were Wiccan.

Baby Lee
08-20-2005, 03:57 PM
The Catholic Church burned at the stake approximately 4 million people with 85% of them women. Talk about Barbaric the Muslims seem like amateurs in comparison.
____

The first major witch-hunt occurred in Switzerland in 1427. The persecution of witches reached its height between 1580 and 1660, when witch trials became almost universal throughout western Europe.

barbarian
1338, from M.L. barbarinus, from L. barbaria "foreign country," from Gk. barbaros "foreign, strange, ignorant," from PIE base *barbar- echoic of unintelligible speech of foreigners (cf. Skt. barbara- "stammering," also "non-Aryan"). Barbaric is first recorded 1490, from O.Fr. barbarique, from L. barbaricus "foreign, strange, outlandish." Barbarous is first attested 1526.
Geez, the people the Greeks coined the term barbarian for were barbaric? Will miracles never cease.
Earth to Vlad, it's the 21st century.

Mr. Kotter
08-20-2005, 03:58 PM
Psssttt......Jim, that was 400 plus years ago.

And, FTR, who's made that claim? :hmmm:

mlyonsd
08-20-2005, 04:00 PM
The Catholic Church burned at the stake approximately 4 million people with 85% of them women. Talk about Barbaric the Muslims seem like amateurs in comparison.

http://www.dhushara.com/book/death/death2.htm

Has anyone posted they thought Christians have never been guilty of unspeakable deeds?

I've never seen it.

Mr. Kotter
08-20-2005, 04:01 PM
Has anyone posted they thought Christians have never been guilty of unspeakable deeds?

I've never seen it.

Another claim, made out of thin-air as far as I know.... :shake:

Pitt Gorilla
08-20-2005, 04:01 PM
Psssttt......Jim, that was 400 plus years ago.

And, FTR, who's made that claim? :hmmm:
How long ago it happend is irrelevant, given the thread heading. "Your reading comprehension skills leave much to be desired then...."

Mr. Kotter
08-20-2005, 04:03 PM
How long ago it happend is irrelevant, given the thread heading.

The thread title says, "so you think....." implying someone here thinks what Jim is suggesting?

Who?

Pitt Gorilla
08-20-2005, 04:06 PM
The thread title says, "so you think....." implying someone here thinks what Jim is suggesting?

Who?
Well, it seems pretty clear that he is talking to whoever thinks that way; evidently, it's not you, or me, for that matter.

Mosbonian
08-20-2005, 04:08 PM
For those of us who profess to be Christian....could I ask what precipitated this post?

Was it something someone said in another thread?

mmaddog
*******

Mr. Kotter
08-20-2005, 04:08 PM
Well, it seems pretty clear that he is talking to whoever thinks that way; evidently, it's not you, or me, for that matter.

And I would suspect no one here....

go bowe
08-20-2005, 04:10 PM
i'll do it! i'll do it!!

er, what am i doing, anyway?

Iowanian
08-20-2005, 04:11 PM
Vlad...if you hurry, you've probably got time to go piss on an alter or something before the game.

You're worse than Dense these days.

Baby Lee
08-20-2005, 04:14 PM
Well, it seems pretty clear that he is talking to whoever thinks that way; evidently, it's not you, or me, for that matter.
Well then, in the [paraphrased] words of Jon Stewart "shame on that . . . nonexistent entity."

Logical
08-20-2005, 04:45 PM
Psssttt......Jim, that was 400 plus years ago.

And, FTR, who's made that claim? :hmmm:The link is at the bottom of the thread header, feel free to click on it.;)

Logical
08-20-2005, 04:47 PM
The thread title says, "so you think....." implying someone here thinks what Jim is suggesting?

Who?

Duh, obviously anyone who opens the thread.ROFL


I ain't the Evil Mastermind for nothing.:p

Mr. Kotter
08-20-2005, 04:57 PM
The link is at the bottom of the thread header, feel free to click on it.;)

I meant the claim you put forward, of those that think that some Christians (of the hundreds of millions--perhaps Billions?) who've lived have never committed terrorists acts....

I don't know anyone who doesn't accept the facts and condemn the acts of the Inquisition and the Crusades, for example.

I was curious who such uninformed people might be? :hmmm:

BigMeatballDave
08-20-2005, 05:37 PM
Hundreds of years ago, and occuring in Europe. Pardon me if I really don't give a shit...

Logical
08-20-2005, 05:42 PM
I meant the claim you put forward, of those that think that some Christians (of the hundreds of millions--perhaps Billions?) who've lived have never committed terrorists acts....

I don't know anyone who doesn't accept the facts and condemn the acts of the Inquisition and the Crusades, for example.

I was curious who such uninformed people might be? :hmmm:http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2636492&postcount=17

Mr. Kotter
08-20-2005, 05:55 PM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2636492&postcount=17

Ah, I see.....mental masturbation for you, Jim.

I indulge on occasion; please, proceed. :)

Electric
08-20-2005, 09:04 PM
Do any of you know the basic difference between the typical average Christian and the typical average non-Christian?

Once you decide what that difference is you might be able to understand why those that are Christians can do the same things that non-Christians do.

It's actually a very simple thing once you look at it from a differnt viewpoint.

Electric
08-20-2005, 09:05 PM
I do not believe that the description fits with what I would call a terrorist organization. They were brutal and killing people, but I don't feel that it fits the definition per se.

Logical
08-20-2005, 09:11 PM
I do not believe that the description fits with what I would call a terrorist organization. They were brutal and killing people, but I don't feel that it fits the definition per se.You don't believe that being burned at the stake terroizes a person and terrorizes others to hide similar beliefs. That is the very definition of being a terrorist.

Electric
08-20-2005, 09:17 PM
You don't believe that being burned at the stake terroizes a person and terrorizes others to hide similar beliefs. That is the very definition of being a terrorist.

I totally understand what your point is, it just does not fit with the current definition of a terrorist. I could be wrong, but they weren't killing to scare others while making a political statement.

As far as being terrorized if you were being burned on a stake, does not that make capital punishment an act of terrorism?

Demonpenz
08-23-2005, 08:25 AM
no no no christians follow the religion of peace!

Donger
08-23-2005, 08:33 AM
No certain figures exist for the exact number of people who were killed but some scholars put it as high as four million.

Geographically, the center of witch-burning lay in Germany, Austria, and Switzerland, but few areas were left untouched by it. No one knows the total number of victims. In southwestern Germany alone, however, more than 3,000 witches were executed between 1560 and 1680. Not all witch trials ended in deaths. In England, where torture was prohibited, only about 20 percent of accused witches were executed (by hanging); in Scotland, where torture was used, nearly half of all those put on trial were burned at the stake, and almost three times as many witches (1,350) were killed as in England. Some places had fewer trials than others. In the Dutch republic, no witches were executed after 1600, and none were tried after 1610. In Spain and Italy accusations of witchcraft were handled by the Inquisition, and although torture was legal, only a dozen witches were burned out of 5,000 put on trial. Ireland apparently escaped witch trials altogether. (Young)

The chronicler of Treves reported that in the year 1586, the entire female population of two villages was wiped out by the inquisitors, except for only two women left alive. A hundred and thirty-three persons were burned in a single day at Quedlinburg in 1589, out of a town of 12,000. Henri Boguet said Germany in 1590 was "almost entirely occupied with building fires (for witches); and Switzerland has been compelled to wipe out many of her villages on their account. Travelers in Lorraine may see thousands and thousands of the stakes to which witches are bound." In 1524, one thousand witches died at Como. Strasbourg burned five thousand in a period of 20 years. The Senate of Savoy condemned 800 witches at one time. Param stated that over thirty thousand were executed in the 15th century. Nicholas Remy said he personally sentenced 800 witches in 15 years and in one year alone forced sixteen witches to suicide. A bishop of Bamberg claimed 600 witches in 10 years; a bishop of Nancy, 800 in 16 years; a bishop of Wurtzburg, 1900 in 5 years. Five hundred were executed within three months at Geneva and 400 in a single day at Toulouse. The city of Traves burned 7,000 witches. The Lutheran prelate Benedict Carpzov, who claimed to have read the Bible 53 times, sentenced 20,000 devil-worshippers. Even relatively permissive England killed 30,000 witches between 1542 and 1736. The slaughter went on throughout Christian Europe for nearly five centuries.

I'll admit that I'm not the best at mathematics, but how do you get anywhere near 4 million from what is listed above?

Brock
08-23-2005, 08:36 AM
It's quite funny how Vlad thinks his knowledge of elementary school history makes him smart.

vailpass
08-23-2005, 11:41 AM
"No certain figures exist for the exact number of people who were killed but some scholars put it as high as four million."
If you add up all of the CONFIRMED cases of witch burning in the article the total is less than 50k.

Come on Vlad, remember your basic research statistics. Validity sample in the quote above is at or near zero.
Some people GUESS 4 million? In your never-ending quest to fling mud at the Church of Rome you can find a lot of factual incidents to cite without resorting to this sort of guesswork.

She turned me into a newt.


I got better.

Duck Dog
08-23-2005, 12:13 PM
What lengths will dumb Americans go to try and disprove that Muslims are the terrorists of the 21st century, not Christians?

|Zach|
08-23-2005, 12:25 PM
What lengths will dumb Americans go to try and disprove that Muslims are the terrorists of the 21st century, not Christians?
Who is trying to disprove their muslim terrorism?

Saulbadguy
08-23-2005, 12:32 PM
Ah...but can you not also build a bridge out of stone?

Saulbadguy
08-23-2005, 12:35 PM
What lengths will dumb Americans go to try and disprove that Muslims are the terrorists of the 21st century, not Christians?
I'll just let bigots be bigots. No sense in trying to change your mind.

memyselfI
08-23-2005, 12:46 PM
Whew, is Pat Robertson glad to hear this... ROFL

memyselfI
08-23-2005, 12:47 PM
What lengths will dumb Americans go to try and disprove that Muslims are the terrorists of the 21st century, not Christians?

I think much of the world would find BOTH to be guilty...

Count Zarth
08-23-2005, 12:49 PM
While I agree, yes that was 400 years ago.

The founding fathers did terrible things to the original inhabitants of the country we call the United States of America. What of it?

BTW, Chiefs fans raped, murdered and pillaged Raiders, Broncos and Chargers fans 400 years ago, too. What of it? :D

vailpass
08-23-2005, 01:18 PM
Ah...but can you not also build a bridge out of stone?

Who are you sir Knight that are so wise in the ways of science?

Duck Dog
08-23-2005, 03:42 PM
I'll just let bigots be bigots. No sense in trying to change your mind.


What's with all the racist/bigot attacks you make on me everytime I post?

Duck Dog
08-23-2005, 03:42 PM
I think much of the world would find BOTH to be guilty...


And they'd be WRONG.

Duck Dog
08-23-2005, 03:43 PM
Who is trying to disprove their muslim terrorism?


I'd answer your question if it made sense.

|Zach|
08-23-2005, 03:44 PM
I'd answer your question if it made sense.
I forgot "is not"

Who is trying to misprove there is not muslim terrorism.

Duck Dog
08-23-2005, 03:52 PM
I forgot "is not"

Who is trying to misprove there is not muslim terrorism.

Anyone who answers the statement 'muslims are the terrorists of the 21st century' with; 'Christians are terrorists too.'

We live in a world where Muslims are blowing up innocent people everyday, yet the bleeding hearts are too pussified to admit that Muslims are the problem not Christians.

memyselfI
08-23-2005, 04:01 PM
And they'd be WRONG.

Yeah, just ask Mullah Pat.

Chieficus
08-23-2005, 04:07 PM
For those of us who profess to be Christian....could I ask what precipitated this post?

Was it something someone said in another thread?

mmaddog
*******

My guess would be that it stems from his overall fear and hatred of organized religion.

Duck Dog
08-23-2005, 04:09 PM
Yeah, just ask Mullah Pat.

Get back to us when 'Mullah Pat' starts blowing up grocery stores in the name of Jesus.

Until then, you and unlogical's faked perceptions on Christians will have to remain just that.

memyselfI
08-23-2005, 04:19 PM
Get back to us when 'Mullah Pat' starts blowing up grocery stores in the name of Jesus.

Until then, you and unlogical's faked perceptions on Christians will have to remain just that.

No, he's not blowing up any body himself. He merely funds others to do it for him.

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/groupwatch/cbn.php

The U.S. operation of CBN* was considered one of the top private funders of the contras. (23,28) As of 1987 Robertson reported that Operation Blessing had sent more than $3 million in aid to the Nicaraguan refugees. (58) CBN gave the $3 million to the contra's Houston-based Nicaraguan Patriotic Association, according to Juan Sacasas, Vice President of the group and representative of the FDN contra force. (2,9) Robertson denies any connection with Sacasas. (3,9) However, there is little question that the Operation Blessing donations reached the contra forces. Robertson was so popular among them that one group named itself the Pat Robertson Brigade. (58)

In May, 1984, Pat Robertson solicited U.S. viewers' contributions for the "freedom fighters" through a special telethon on "The 700 Club" and simulated mailgrams. (28) An undetermined amount of CBN aid was delivered to Miskito Indians on the Honduras-Nicaragua border by AmeriCares/Knights of Malta and the Friends of the Americas (FOA). (2,9) Louisiana State Representative Louis "Woody" Jenkins (Chairman of FOA) told The New York Times that "some of the aid... would go to the refugees and some to the rebels."(1) Jenkins said in 1985,"I'm all for the freedom fighters. I want the Sandinistas kicked out of Nicaragua. That's one of the main motivations of my work."(9) At a National Religious Broadcasters dinner, Jenkins told the audience,"One of the few groups helping [the refugees through Friends of the Americas] is Pat Robertson and CBN." Addressing Robertson seated at the head table, Jenkins said,"Thank you."(9) Diane Jenkins, the representative's wife and Executive Director of FOA, has solicited funds on "The 700 Club" for the FOA's work on the Nicaraguan border. (37)

Saulbadguy
08-23-2005, 05:45 PM
What's with all the racist/bigot attacks you make on me everytime I post?
Call em like I see em. At least, thats how you carry yourself on the board.

Logical
08-23-2005, 06:45 PM
I'll admit that I'm not the best at mathematics, but how do you get anywhere near 4 million from what is listed above?

You might want to try reading the entire article next time.

No certain figures exist for the exact number of people who were killed but some scholars put it as high as four million. Significantly, 85 percent of those killed were women, varying in age from young children to old women. Certainly some of these women were witches or thought they were, but by far the larger number were victims of false accusations based on an excessive misogyny sanctioned by Christianity. (Young)

Logical
08-23-2005, 06:46 PM
It's quite funny how Vlad thinks his knowledge of elementary school history makes him smart.It is even funnier that your elementary school taunting might be considered valid.

Logical
08-23-2005, 06:48 PM
What lengths will dumb Americans go to try and disprove that Muslims are the terrorists of the 21st century, not Christians?What in my thread post would make you think this thread is about Muslim's, nothing, absolutely nothing but a guilty conscience on your part.

Logical
08-23-2005, 06:52 PM
My guess would be that it stems from his overall fear and hatred of organized religion.Disgust with, loathing of, and complete distrust of all yes. Hatred sort of. Fear, not really, I fear the sheeple that follow organized religion for people who do not think scare me terribly.

Chieficus
08-23-2005, 07:09 PM
Disgust with, loathing of, and complete distrust of all yes. Hatred sort of. Fear, not really, I fear the sheeple that follow organized religion for people who do not think scare me terribly.

Oh, come now, us right-wing-organized-religious-wacko's who dare say something like "homosexuality is a sin" usually get labled "homophobes" (I'm not specifically talking about you here, 'cause I don't recall if you've ever used the term or not)...

...we should at least get the pleasure of calling people who totally disdain organized religion "religiphobes"...

Count Zarth
08-23-2005, 07:37 PM
Vlad, you still haven't responded to my post.

Logical
08-23-2005, 08:54 PM
Vlad, you still haven't responded to my post.I did not realize it was addressed to me and also I guess I am not sure what the question in that post really is. Was is 400 years ago, more than that actually.

Logical
08-23-2005, 08:56 PM
Oh, come now, us right-wing-organized-religious-wacko's who dare say something like "homosexuality is a sin" usually get labled "homophobes" (I'm not specifically talking about you here, 'cause I don't recall if you've ever used the term or not)...

...we should at least get the pleasure of calling people who totally disdain organized religion "religiphobes"...I think it would be a misuse of the term in my case as I have been inside and attended ceremonies of many different religions. I am not afraid to attend or that something will happen to me if I do attend. Don't mean to rain on your parade though.

C-Mac
08-23-2005, 09:36 PM
Anyone who answers the statement 'muslims are the terrorists of the 21st century' with; 'Christians are terrorists too.'
We live in a world where Muslims are blowing up innocent people everyday, yet the bleeding hearts are too pussified to admit that Muslims are the problem not Christians.


Ever heard of Burundi?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/1288230.stm

Look, I try to live my life as a Christian, but just as with both of the religions you mention, there are Muslims and "so-call-themselves" Muslims, Christians and "so-called-themselves Christians". The Catholic Church at that time was no more Christian than Hitler was a Christian.
Look at Pat Robertson, he's political while playing the religious card and he is NOT acting as a Christian. Forget the scale of a killing, killing is killing and killing is not for someone trying to be a Christ like.

jcl-kcfan2
08-24-2005, 07:39 AM
We hear a lot about the "Crusades" throughout Europe, anyone got any stories about being in the "occupied" lands the Turks held?

My wife was born in Belgrade, she knows a little of the history there.

So, anyone want to chime in on when "Islam" invaded Europe?

Simplex3
08-24-2005, 12:40 PM
I'll admit that I'm not the best at mathematics, but how do you get anywhere near 4 million from what is listed above?
By being "some scholors...who think". Same way obesity is...errr...was...errr...wasn't the leading cause of death in the US.

Simplex3
08-24-2005, 12:49 PM
Disgust with, loathing of, and complete distrust of all yes. Hatred sort of. Fear, not really, I fear the sheeple that follow organized religion for people who do not think scare me terribly.
I'm with you if you are talking about ANY religion. That's what scares me the most about Muslims. They're waaaaay back on the timeline of civilization right now and, IMO, still stuck in the same era where Christians were burning women as witches and having holy wars. The Muslims are kind of like the 20-something that still acts like he's 14.

On second thought, it doesn't even have to be religion. There are blind followers all over the place. Global warming nuts, for example. They haven't done the research, they won't listen to anyone that contridicts their beliefs, and they're willing to screw the entire world just in case they're right. It's the same basic mindset.

I think what scares me is that I see them as one life-altering emotional step shy of a being a Branch Davidian.

KC Kings
08-24-2005, 12:58 PM
I thought the goal of terrorist was to cause terror?
How is trying to rid the world of witch craft the same as have a common goal of bringing terror to innocent people?

This is a interesting story but has nothing to do with the thread title. Looks like somebody has some abused altarboy agression and is trying to use buzz words to upset those that share the same faith of that priest.

Donger
08-24-2005, 12:59 PM
You might want to try reading the entire article next time.

I did read it. And based on the numbers presented, I fail to see how anyone could reach anywhere near 4 million, including these 'scholars.'

Simplex3
08-24-2005, 01:03 PM
I thought the goal of terrorist was to cause terror?
How is trying to rid the world of witch craft the same as have a common goal of bringing terror to innocent people?

This is a interesting story but has nothing to do with the thread title. Looks like somebody has some abused altarboy agression and is trying to use buzz words to upset those that share the same faith of that priest.
The goal of terrorism is to weed out non-believers and convert the world to Islam. Burning witches wasn't aimed to that extreme, it was done to protect the people of the area.

With that said, the truth of the matter is that most terrorists are psychos using killing to gain power or dolts being tricked into doing the dirty work for those psychos. The church elders who were burning the witch quite frequently were taking out someone they didn't like or was somehow providing competition to them.

Doesn't make either group bad as a whole.