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View Full Version : Prediction: Chiefs Defense in Top 15 This Year


petegz28
08-21-2005, 11:44 AM
Yes we will get burnt on some big plays. that happens with an attacking defense. But once Bell and Warfield are on the field or if Dex can tighten it up some we are going to be a good defense. Not great, but good.

Sims...showing consistant push in the middle with Jelly-Roll
Hicks...Pressure is coming and is doing what coaches want of him
Allen...Pass Rush is great. Run D needs to tightent he screws
Mitchell...Where in the hell did this guy come from?
Bell...Speed and anger! Great combination. Just stay healthy!
DJ...Rookie mistakes will come. Record Speed will compensate
Surtain...Throw at him PLEASSSSEEEEE!
Mcleon...Needs to quit playing off so much
Knight...Worth every $
Wesley...Play smart or put in Bartee


All in all I think with the speed and finally understanding Gun's attack style and getting an attitude we are going to be good. Especially since we have to play some of the "projected" high power offenses this year.

MichaelH
08-21-2005, 11:47 AM
They sure look good on paper don't they? I am remaining skeptical until they prove any different on September 11th.

|Zach|
08-21-2005, 11:48 AM
They sure look good on paper don't they? I am remaining skeptical until they prove any different on September 11th.
True, but in the past...our D hasn't even looked good on paper. ROFL

wutamess
08-21-2005, 11:50 AM
I'm very skeptical right now.
Even with the new blend of players, I see too many of the same mistakes out there that are leading to big plays.

Example... the TD called back when (either) McCleon got burnt or the safety over the top help wasn't there.

Either way... new players, new scheme, same freaking defense for the most part. We're really missing a good-great pass-rusher. That's what seperates us from an average defense to a great defense.

And Before someone mentions Allen, He's nobody you have to gameplan for and we STILL don't have that one dominate player (possibly Surtain) on our defense even with the new additions.

But it's still too early so the jury is still out.

petegz28
08-21-2005, 11:51 AM
I'm very skeptical right now.
Even with the new blend of players, I see too many of the same mistakes out there that are leading to big plays.

Example... the TD called back when (either) McCleon got burnt or the safety over the top help wasn't there.

Either way... new players, new scheme, same freaking defense for the most part. We're really missing a good-great pass-rusher. That's what seperates us from an average defense to a great defense.

And Before someone mentions Allen, He's nobody you have to gameplan for. and we STILL don't have that on our defense even with the enw additions.

But it's still too early so the jury is still out.


You are just a closet Raiders fan. Admit it!!!

4th and Long
08-21-2005, 11:52 AM
True, but in the past...our D hasn't even looked good on paper. ROFL
ROFL

wutamess
08-21-2005, 11:55 AM
You are just a closet Raiders fan. Admit it!!!

Speaking of that... yousee Collins' numbers last night?
Something you probably need to start paying attention to since we do play them twice this year.

keg in kc
08-21-2005, 11:56 AM
I thought we would be top-15 before the preseason started. I haven't seen anything yet that would make me change my mind. The only concern I have is health.

The thing that's keeping us from being much higher than that in my mind is defensive end. I think Hicks is a bigger detriment to the squad than McCleon, and he'll be starting all year rather than just filling in for a month. And I'm not sold on Allen/Hall/Wilkerson on the other side. The tackles look like they're playing fairly well, so that should help, but we're looking weak at end.

But the linebackers look very good right now, and the secondary, even with McCleon starting, is better than anything we've had back there since the 90's. Once Warfield returns, I think we're going to be very solid in the back seven.

petegz28
08-21-2005, 12:04 PM
Speaking of that... yousee Collins' numbers last night?
Something you probably need to start paying attention to since we do play them twice this year.


I saw that INT he threw. And I saw there dfesne sucking again. That's ok. We can get into a shootout with them. I have no worries getting in an offensive shootout with anyone.

We will see how good Collin sis when DJ and Bell say hello!

wutamess
08-21-2005, 12:14 PM
If you decide to look at it half empty that's on you.

We said what you're saying last year about the Panthers, Texans, Jax, & New Orleans (most notably).

and not to mention... Tampa Bay, New England, and San Diego 2 times.

DTLB58
08-21-2005, 01:09 PM
They sure look good on paper don't they? I am remaining skeptical until they prove any different on September 11th.

Last night they seem to have jumped off the paper and into warner's face. At least it was better than last week. And you can already tell we are much faster overall on that side of the ball and it won't take waiting till sept 11th to see that.

kcjayhawks5
08-21-2005, 01:12 PM
i know we are going to be better but how much better is still in question. I will make my opinion when i see warfield and bell in there and that wont be until week 5.

petegz28
08-21-2005, 05:39 PM
If you decide to look at it half empty that's on you.

We said what you're saying last year about the Panthers, Texans, Jax, & New Orleans (most notably).

and not to mention... Tampa Bay, New England, and San Diego 2 times.


Unless Collins got a spine implant he is still the same Collins that will get rattled once you knock him around.

petegz28
08-21-2005, 05:40 PM
If you decide to look at it half empty that's on you.

We said what you're saying last year about the Panthers, Texans, Jax, & New Orleans (most notably).

and not to mention... Tampa Bay, New England, and San Diego 2 times.


Just keep your Raiders love chants you do at work in your own cube. ROFL

Halfcan
08-21-2005, 05:48 PM
I predict that predicting the Chiefs Defense will be in the top 15 after one good preseason half is a premature ejaculation at this point in time. Any future prognosticating would be pure unmitigated conjecture, which will only be fueled one way or another by blind speculation.

Luzap
08-21-2005, 05:52 PM
I predict that predicting the Chiefs Defense will be in the top 15 after one good preseason half is a premature ejaculation at this point in time. Any future prognosticating would be pure unmitigated conjecture, which will only be fueled one way or another by blind speculation.
Yeah, but what's your point?

petegz28
08-21-2005, 05:52 PM
I predict that predicting the Chiefs Defense will be in the top 15 after one good preseason half is a premature ejaculation at this point in time. Any future prognosticating would be pure unmitigated conjecture, which will only be fueled one way or another by blind speculation.


WOW! Well what good is making a prediction if you are gonna wait until the end of the season to make it? :banghead:

And there have been 2 halves of football with most of our defensive starters.

You take the fun out of making predictions. :cuss:

Halfcan
08-21-2005, 06:05 PM
Sorry, didn't mean to rain on your parade-no I like the optimism, just don't want to jinx it. And the Minn. game the starters didn't look too great as a whole. So I thought you meant this last half where there was a lot of improvement. I mispredicted.

Optimism-(op'te-miz'em) 1. A disposition to look on the bright side of things. 2. The doctrine that everything is ordered for the best. 3. The doctrine that the universe is constantly tending toward a better state.

BigMeatballDave
08-21-2005, 06:15 PM
If everyone stays healthy, I think we will have one of the better back seven in the league. At the monent, I have little confidence in our front four...

milkman
08-21-2005, 06:21 PM
How much improvement we see in this defense is going to be determined by the front four, Kawika, and Wesley.

We can almost expect McPassOn to get passed on in the first four games, but that area will improve as soon as Warfield returns.

But those seven guys are going to have to bring it for this defense to make any significant jump.

If they don't, this D will still finish somewhere in the 20s.

elvomito
08-21-2005, 07:50 PM
does benny sapped get torched when he plays? why are the coaches not confident in him?

milkman
08-21-2005, 07:58 PM
does benny sapped get torched when he plays? why are the coaches not confident in him?

I think it's probabbly has more to do with the fact that Dick has a McHardOn for McPassOn.

TEX
08-21-2005, 08:29 PM
If the play of the D-line doesn't improve by applying preasure and keeping the O-lineman off our LB's, no way we're a top 15 defense. IMO we are a disaster waiting to happen on McCleon's side and we're still soft up the middle. I'm not at all sold on Sims and Mitchell but they seem to be the "best" we have at their positions.

beer bacon
08-21-2005, 08:31 PM
If the play of the D-line doesn't improve by applying preasure and keeping the O-lineman off our LB's, no way we're a top 15 defense. IMO we are a disaster waiting to happen on McCleon's side and we're still soft up the middle. I'm not at all sold on Sims and Mitchell but they seem to be the "best" we have at their positions.

I have yet to see us get gashed up the middle this preseason against the run.

Logical
08-21-2005, 08:36 PM
I say, you have to love an optimist. Hope you are right but I would settle for 16-20 with a bunch of takeaways and solid turnover ratio.

TEX
08-21-2005, 09:00 PM
I have yet to see us get gashed up the middle this preseason against the run.

You must have been in the bathroom or something when Sims faild to wrap up Arrington when he ran up the middle and was evntually taken down 10 yards later.

Halfcan
08-21-2005, 09:01 PM
Vlad you look like another guy named vlib that post around here. Your not one of Kotter's alias's are you.

the Talking Can
08-21-2005, 09:14 PM
I doubt it...I still thinks somewhere between 15-20...I'm not convinced our DL can play that well for 16 games...and I'm not convinced, until I see it, that Bell will be healthy and hold up for 16 games either...

wutamess
08-21-2005, 09:15 PM
How in the hell can you predict top 15 out of one good preseason game against the 6-10 Cardinals.

First off, last week we didn't do shit defensively against the Vikings. They did what they wanted at will against us.

Secondly, Gunther has an ego and we know he was going to send the ship as he did yesterday against an unprepared previously 6-10 team.

Yes I'm a Chiefs fan and YES I'm also a realist.

I've been burned by the preseason and pre preseason hype 1 too many times since 1998.

Get me once, shame on you... get me twice, shame on me.

HolmeZz
08-21-2005, 09:16 PM
You must have been in the bathroom or something when Sims faild to wrap up Arrington when he ran up the middle and was evntually taken down 10 yards later.

Compared to the 40 yards gashes we usually see, I'll take giving up plays like that once in a while. We've definitely been better on defense up to this point.

Logical
08-21-2005, 09:18 PM
Vlad you look like another guy named vlib that post around here. Your not one of Kotter's alias's are you.I am Vlib, I just changed my username back. Vlib was a joke that I had been playing along with that Patteau came up with.

beer bacon
08-21-2005, 09:27 PM
You must have been in the bathroom or something when Sims faild to wrap up Arrington when he ran up the middle and was evntually taken down 10 yards later.

NFL.com has that play as going off the left end, not up the middle. That was the one where Sapp came over and made the tackle right? Frankly, my memory isn't good enough to remember where Arrington ran after Sims' let him slip by.

According to NFL.com's Play by Play our first team defense has given up 12 yards on seven carries on plays "up the middle".

Halfcan
08-21-2005, 09:31 PM
Well welcome back vlad. I am gaining on you in post count, I am only 41,661 behind. I figure if I spend the next ten years posting smartazz useless comments on here I can catch you. So look out. lol

petegz28
08-22-2005, 07:03 AM
How in the hell can you predict top 15 out of one good preseason game against the 6-10 Cardinals.

First off, last week we didn't do shit defensively against the Vikings. They did what they wanted at will against us.

Secondly, Gunther has an ego and we know he was going to send the ship as he did yesterday against an unprepared previously 6-10 team.

Yes I'm a Chiefs fan and YES I'm also a realist.

I've been burned by the preseason and pre preseason hype 1 too many times since 1998.

Get me once, shame on you... get me twice, shame on me.


Real easy...I say..."I predict top 15".....it isn't hard. Yeah Gun really sent the ship...CB Blitz. WOW! Never seen those before.

When you come into work stop by my cube so I can smack you around some.

tiptap
08-22-2005, 08:36 AM
Last year the defense was OK at tackle. Despite not seeing pro ball play out of Sims, Dalton and the rest of the DT played the inside running game well and got pressure on the QB. The defenses failing was at DE especially RDE or Jerod. He was a liability against the run and is the reason he was replaced at RDE for his contiued problem with the run against Minn. Now Jerod isn't the only problem to the runs outside of tackle, the cut back runs. The LB corp also has a part in seeing the big gains on those running plays. The added speed at LB should help here but getting into position as a Rookie will be a problem for DJ.
But the main reason we were a poor defense last year was the secondary and its play in the passing game. As the numbers go up in the NFL in the passing game the secondary has to get better to make us a average defense. At this time McCleon is the weak link but what is needed is help from the FS. Knight and Surtain are working well together on their side. We need the same coordination and more help from Wesley or Bartee. (And I think Bartee is playing better in space than Wesley at this point.) So I don't see us as a 15 defense during the first 4 games. I do think the defense will get some stops. And if the offense is ready we could go at LEAST 2-2. After that the defense may be at 15 level with one caveat. We lack bodies at DT. With only two players we can't rest people properly and we won't see stops late in the games.

MOhillbilly
08-22-2005, 09:00 AM
imo its going to be a long long season. The D in all honesty may look better in some areas but,they havent shown anything but so-so play thus far.
All the hype in the world doesnt make the D any better.

Chief Faithful
08-22-2005, 09:05 AM
If they stay healthy, Sims keeps up the performance, and Kaweeka becomes Kawowka then they will come together just before mid-season and really start to play like a top 5 defense. If not, then I see a defense in the 15 to 20 range.

htismaqe
08-22-2005, 09:06 AM
Right now, Kawika is doing what we need him to do -- plug the gaps against the run.

My opinion is well known here -- a championship defense doesn't need to be top 10 against the pass but they ABSOLUTELY must be top 10 against the run.

MOhillbilly
08-22-2005, 09:10 AM
Right now, Kawika is doing what we need him to do -- plug the gaps against the run.

My opinion is well known here -- a championship defense doesn't need to be top 10 against the pass but they ABSOLUTELY must be top 10 against the run.

i noticed kawika puting his hat on other hats wether he made a play or not.
And htismage i have alittle more faith in the run D than the pass,but very little.

meh,its still pre season.

Rausch
08-22-2005, 09:11 AM
Right now, Kawika is doing what we need him to do -- plug the gaps against the run.

My opinion is well known here -- a championship defense doesn't need to be top 10 against the pass but they ABSOLUTELY must be top 10 against the run.

Look how many years the Steelers have used that method to cover up a weak secondary.

With a front 7 great against the run, well timed blitzes, and LB's who can really rush the passer their average to poor CB's have been able to still do good...

htismaqe
08-22-2005, 09:23 AM
i noticed kawika puting his hat on other hats wether he made a play or not.
And htismage i have alittle more faith in the run D than the pass,but very little.

meh,its still pre season.

This defense has burned all of us too many times...It's gonna be about week 5 or 6 before I can make a decision one way or another.

That being said, they have shown improvement against the run and if forced to choose run or pass, I choose run.

TEX
08-22-2005, 09:47 AM
This defense has burned all of us too many times...It's gonna be about week 5 or 6 before I can make a decision one way or another.

That being said, they have shown improvement against the run and if forced to choose run or pass, I choose run.

Yep. You must stop the run first.

greg63
08-22-2005, 10:00 AM
I think it's impossible to tell in preseason, because everyone runs a real basic offense, ala Al Saunders. The real test will come in the regular season, and then we'll know.

Luzap
08-22-2005, 10:04 AM
Obviously it's still too early to tell.


I feel our LB corps is definitely improved and it's hard to calculate how much of an impact that could have on both the running game as well as the passing game.

Sims does look better. Better is good.

I have no idea if half our secondary will play better the first four games ~ from then on however, it can't help but be improved from last year.

I think we will have to wait untill we see our D gameplan before we can make assessments. Gun's strength is in gameplanning ~ especially second half adjustments.

Luz
guardedly optimistic...

htismaqe
08-22-2005, 10:08 AM
I think it's impossible to tell in preseason, because everyone runs a real basic offense, ala Al Saunders. The real test will come in the regular season, and then we'll know.

It's impossible to tell in the regular season either, until we get a few games in.

That's why I said it'll take 4 or 5 games for me, because I remember 2003 when we completely shutdown Tomlinson in week 1 and then halted the Steelers running game the next week, only to go on and give up almost SIX YARD PER CARRY for the whole season.

greg63
08-22-2005, 10:38 AM
It's impossible to tell in the regular season either, until we get a few games in.

That's why I said it'll take 4 or 5 games for me, because I remember 2003 when we completely shutdown Tomlinson in week 1 and then halted the Steelers running game the next week, only to go on and give up almost SIX YARD PER CARRY for the whole season.

Good point. It also depends on what kind and how good the opposing offense is.

petegz28
09-11-2005, 10:42 PM
I would say we are off to a great start to being a top 15 defense!

greg63
09-12-2005, 12:25 AM
I would say we are off to a great start to being a top 15 defense!

It is just that, a good start, I remain cautiously optimistic.:)

Gaz
09-12-2005, 06:57 AM
It was only one game and it is WAY too early for me to make a prediction, but…

THAT WAS GREAT!!!

xoxo~
Gaz
Enjoyed seeing the return of Chiefs QB-crushing D.

Nzoner
09-12-2005, 07:02 AM
It was only one game and it is WAY too early for me to make a prediction, but…

THAT WAS GREAT!!!

xoxo~
Gaz
Enjoyed seeing the return of Chiefs QB-crushing D.


Yep,and Arrowhead yesterday reminded me of days gone by.The moment of silence for Coach Stram was also a great moment and I know the way the place was rocking during that game that DT's spirit was close by and smiling.

Gaz
09-12-2005, 07:06 AM
Pennington had that wonderful “deer in the headlights” look that used to be standard equipment for Enemy QBs at Arrowhead.

Ahhh…that felt good.

xoxo~
Gaz
Lighting up.

StcChief
09-12-2005, 07:07 AM
Top 15 is possible depending on Surtain, Sims, any other injuries.

oldandslow
09-12-2005, 07:16 AM
I may eat crow later, but I really think this d could be something special - better than top 15.

Moss and Porter are going to get their yds next week, but later, when surtain and warfield are both on the field this D will become very good, imo.

It all begins and ends with LB, and what I saw yesterday makes me believe that this LB crew could be something special indeed. BTW, I think we will see the 3-4 more and more.

Ari Chi3fs
09-12-2005, 07:25 AM
Yep,and Arrowhead yesterday reminded me of days gone by.The moment of silence for Coach Stram was also a great moment and I know the way the place was rocking during that game that DT's spirit was close by and smiling.

heh. during that moemnt of silence, from halfway across the stadium I heard someone yell 'JETS SUCK'... it made me smile, even though it wasnt silence like we were supposed to be doing. Anyone else hear that?

ChiTown
09-12-2005, 07:32 AM
I think they have the potential to finish top 15 in scoring D and btwn #20-25 in total yards.

This has the makings of a bend, but don't break, Defense.

Ari Chi3fs
09-12-2005, 07:42 AM
Chiefs are 32nd in Passing Defense... 6th in Rushing Defense... tied for 2nd in scoring Defense.

That Passing D better step up...

Rausch
09-12-2005, 07:44 AM
Chiefs are 32nd in Passing Defense... 6th in Rushing Defense... tied for 2nd in scoring Defense.

That Passing D better step up...

And that Passing D was without Surtain or Warfield for at least 3 quarters.

Both will be back by week 4...

Ari Chi3fs
09-12-2005, 07:49 AM
And that Passing D was without Surtain or Warfield for at least 3 quarters.

Both will be back by week 4...

We are DOOOOOMED I tell you.

ChiTown
09-12-2005, 08:00 AM
And that Passing D was without Surtain or Warfield for at least 3 quarters.

Both will be back by week 4...

Yep. We had a lot of single man coverages in the game. Our goal appeared to be to make the Jets beat us through the air. We shut down their ground game, and we found out just how important that really was in this contest.

I'm good with that.

Rausch
09-12-2005, 08:10 AM
Yep. We had a lot of single man coverages in the game. Our goal appeared to be to make the Jets beat us through the air. We shut down their ground game, and we found out just how important that really was in this contest.

I'm good with that.

And as far as defensive statistics go the only one that matters is pts allowed.

Plenty of good defenses have given up big yardage only to stiffen up in the red zone.

We stiffened up like Ron Jeremy yesterday...

Dartgod
09-12-2005, 08:31 AM
heh. during that moemnt of silence, from halfway across the stadium I heard someone yell 'JETS SUCK'... it made me smile, even though it wasnt silence like we were supposed to be doing. Anyone else hear that?
Ooops, sorry about that...

KingPriest2
09-12-2005, 08:44 AM
I think they have the potential to finish top 15 in scoring D and btwn #20-25 in total yards.

This has the makings of a bend, but don't break, Defense.


Kind of reminds me of 2003 if that is the case GROB

Ari Chi3fs
09-12-2005, 08:46 AM
Ooops, sorry about that...

heh. Damnit, when are supposed to be silent, Dammit carl! :cuss: be silent!