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View Full Version : We can't hide McCleon. Time for DV to end the love affair and move Sapp


Bootlegged
08-22-2005, 09:51 AM
into the starting lineup for those 4 games. McCleon should not even be on the opening day roster--if we lineup with him on Sept. 11th, Pennington will have a field day.

Brock
08-22-2005, 09:53 AM
Good God, he's awful.

Dr. Facebook Fever
08-22-2005, 09:55 AM
Good God, he's awful.
but... but... but....... he was injured last year..... it wasn't the real Dex!

Chief Faithful
08-22-2005, 09:55 AM
into the starting lineup for those 4 games. McCleon should not even be on the opening day roster--if we lineup with him on Sept. 11th, Pennington will have a field day.

I would rather see Sapp, Hodge, or even Ambrose instead of McCleon.

wolfpack0735
08-22-2005, 09:55 AM
i thing gun would start sapp if dv would let him but as we all know dv has a hard on for MacPasson.

tomahawk kid
08-22-2005, 09:55 AM
into the starting lineup for those 4 games. McCleon should not even be on the opening day roster--if we lineup with him on Sept. 11th, Pennington will have a field day.

I don't know if we'd be any better off.

Sapp has looked horrible in coverage at times.......

tomahawk kid
08-22-2005, 09:56 AM
I would rather see Sapp, Hodge, or even Ambrose instead of McCleon.

Ambrose sucks the sweat off a dead man's balls.

Seriously, he's NOT good. Neither is Washington.

TRR
08-22-2005, 09:59 AM
I just re-watched the first half of the game, and I didn't think McCleon played bad at all. There was some miscommunication on the TD play that was called back, but other than that, he was solid. A couple of nice, assisted tackles.

We can live with McCleon for four games. It will depend more on the communication between Wesley and McCleon than anything else.

MichaelH
08-22-2005, 10:06 AM
I really wish Dicky would realize his love for underachieving players is costing the team a once in a lifetime shot at the Superbowl.

htismaqe
08-22-2005, 10:06 AM
Pennington has to PLAY before he can have a field day. Chadwick has a glass vagina.

Chief Faithful
08-22-2005, 10:07 AM
Ambrose sucks the sweat off a dead man's balls.

Seriously, he's NOT good. Neither is Washington.

What about Hodge? Do you think he could do better than McScoredon?

BigChiefFan
08-22-2005, 10:08 AM
I think Sapp is an up and comer, BUT he isn't ready to be a starter. He's better as the nickel corner, at this point, so we can utilize his blitzing skills.

morphius
08-22-2005, 10:10 AM
What about Hodge? Do you think he could do better than McScoredon?
Well, since Gun was telling Hodge that he could pick someone off the street to play as well as he was in practice last week, I don't know that I would get my hopes up too quickly.

Dr. Facebook Fever
08-22-2005, 10:11 AM
I'm sure it was to provide some competition, which is good, but I can't believe we even wasted money on stiffs like Ambrose and Washington. DW may be worse than Bartee was.

htismaqe
08-22-2005, 10:12 AM
I really wish Dicky would realize his love for underachieving players is costing the team a once in a lifetime shot at the Superbowl.

ROFL

Chest Rockwell
08-22-2005, 10:13 AM
Pennington has to PLAY before he can have a field day. Chadwick has a glass vagina.

Pretty much exactly what I was thinking. McCleon sux, but Chad couldn't have a field day at Wilson's Creek with a bus full of 4th graders and a sack lunch.

Wait...that'd be a field trip...nevermind.

jidar1
08-22-2005, 10:14 AM
What the hell?

DV telling Gun to start McCleon? I can't believe that. No way in hell is DV telling Gun he has to start McCleon or else.

If the Gun puts McCleon out on the field it's because he thinks McCleond is the best man for the job from the guys we have available.

jspchief
08-22-2005, 10:15 AM
I'd like to know why the f*ck Warfield isn't getting any playing time. He should be taking some snaps at CB, so we can get a look at McCleon in the nickel. If McCleon sucks at NB too, then we'll know that we need to groom Sapp to play there when Warfield gets back.

BigChiefFan
08-22-2005, 10:15 AM
I'm sure it was to provide some competition, which is good, but I can't believe we even wasted money on stiffs like Ambrose and Washington. DW may be worse than Bartee was.
I think it was good move-with Battle going down for the entire season.

Chief Faithful
08-22-2005, 10:19 AM
I'm sure it was to provide some competition, which is good, but I can't believe we even wasted money on stiffs like Ambrose and Washington. DW may be worse than Bartee was.

If Bartee is still our second best CB on the team then the Chiefs are in trouble. Maybe they should try Woods.... :shake: no, forget that.

Brock
08-22-2005, 10:25 AM
I'd like to know why the f*ck Warfield isn't getting any playing time.

Sore back.

Dr. Facebook Fever
08-22-2005, 10:28 AM
If the Gun puts McCleon out on the field it's because he thinks McCleond is the best man for the job from the guys we have available.
ROFL

So, you're new the Chiefs fandom eh...?


:D

jidar1
08-22-2005, 10:31 AM
ROFL

So, you're new the Chiefs fandom eh...?


:D

No, I've been lurking here for awhile but I'm hard headed.

I guess I'm that MF who is always trying to ice skate up a hill.

KC Kings
08-22-2005, 10:54 AM
Ambrose sucks the sweat off a dead man's balls.

.
What does that have to do with anything? Johnie Morton sucked sweaty balls and he was a great playerr........ umm, nevermind.

Piper
08-22-2005, 11:13 AM
Pennington has to PLAY before he can have a field day. Chadwick has a glass vagina.

Someone like you describe would not have played with a torn labrum in the last 6 games last year. :banghead:

Uatu
08-22-2005, 11:21 AM
McCleon is not that bad, but this isn't his scheme. He's a Ronde Barber type. If we use him like that and give him help over the top, we can weather the 4 games until Warfield is back.

Bartee, as unpopular as he is, played a lot better last year IMO and is finally starting to mature. He's another guy who I would not be very comfortable with but would consider a better option than Sapp/McCleon by themselves.

Either way, it isn't like the coaches don't know this and won't scheme around it. I'll wait until they give something up in a game that matters before crying.

ct
08-22-2005, 11:22 AM
Pennington has to PLAY before he can have a field day. Chadwick has a glass vagina.

Pretty much exactly what I was thinking. McCleon sux, but Chad couldn't have a field day at Wilson's Creek with a bus full of 4th graders and a sack lunch.

Wait...that'd be a field trip...nevermind.

Sorry to bring a little reality to your fantasies, but Pennington played very well over the weekend. His shoulder appears to be fine...for now. He may not last the season uninjured, but sure looks like he's good to go for week1.

Douche Baggins
08-22-2005, 11:24 AM
OHMIGOD! SOMEONE GAVE UP A BIG PLAY! CUT HIM!

This place is going to IMPLODE the first time Surtain gets burned.

Uatu
08-22-2005, 11:26 AM
OHMIGOD! SOMEONE GAVE UP A BIG PLAY! CUT HIM!

This place is going to IMPLODE the first time Surtain gets burned.

From the way it looked, they were just confused about whether there was anybody deep on that side of the field. It was a mental mistake... it's the preseason... that's what these games are for, to knock the rust off and get back into season form.

htismaqe
08-22-2005, 11:27 AM
Sorry to bring a little reality to your fantasies, but Pennington played very well over the weekend. His shoulder appears to be fine...for now. He may not last the season uninjured, but sure looks like he's good to go for week1.

Well, then we're ****ing doomed.

We might as well not play the game. Just take the loss and move on.

ct
08-22-2005, 11:28 AM
From the way it looked, they were just confused about whether there was anybody deep on that side of the field. It was a mental mistake... it's the preseason... that's what these games are for, to knock the rust off and get back into season form.

BULLSHIT! McCleon was watching the QB the whole way, and when Warner gave him a little pump he pulled up and Bolden flew right by. He got toasted, and no amount of 'his deep help didn't cover for him' spin will change that.

Uatu
08-22-2005, 11:30 AM
OMG LAVARAUERSNEUESES COLEZ IS GOING TO OWN US

SCREWZORED!

donkhater
08-22-2005, 11:30 AM
OHMIGOD! SOMEONE GAVE UP A BIG PLAY! CUT HIM!

This place is going to IMPLODE the first time Surtain gets burned.
That's kind of what I was thinking. And the thing was...it didn't even count!!!!

You can say he got bailed out by the holding call, but blitzing will draw those types of penalties. If the blocker didn't hold, would a sack have occured?

When a team blitzes, you hope the QB only has time to hit his short routes---his hot reads. When the blitz doesn't get there, you are going to get burned. Has anyone else been watching this team the last 3-4 years? When was the last time in the previous 3 years has any of KC's blitzes actually made it to the QB?

True the CB's aren't all world, but maybe the blame for getting burnt deep is a lack of a pass rush or effective blitzing. McCleon may have done exactly what he was supposed to do and sit on the short route and the blitzer didn't get there. Turns out he was being held, which the refs called.

I expect there will be a few times this season when a long pass is completed and this board will go ape that the CB is crap. The ire may be misdirected.

Uatu
08-22-2005, 11:31 AM
BULLSHIT! McCleon was watching the QB the whole way, and when Warner gave him a little pump he pulled up and Bolden flew right by. He got toasted, and no amount of 'his deep help didn't cover for him' spin will change that.

Yeah, he was behaving exactly like there was help behind. Did you listen to the interviews? He didn't specifically say but alluded to this being the situation.

chiefqueen
08-22-2005, 11:31 AM
I'd like to know why the f*ck Warfield isn't getting any playing time. He should be taking some snaps at CB, so we can get a look at McCleon in the nickel. If McCleon sucks at NB too, then we'll know that we need to groom Sapp to play there when Warfield gets back.

He's suspended the first four games, games 5 and 6 are against 2 weak offenses (Wash. and MIA). IMO he can shake off any rust against the Deadskins and Bongheads just as long as he's ready to go against SD on 10/30.

htismaqe
08-22-2005, 11:38 AM
BULLSHIT! McCleon was watching the QB the whole way, and when Warner gave him a little pump he pulled up and Bolden flew right by. He got toasted, and no amount of 'his deep help didn't cover for him' spin will change that.

So you know, FOR A FACT, that McCleon's assignment wasn't zone coverage? And you know for a fact that it wasn't a flat zone?

There was a hold. That adds way too many question marks to say 100% that he got burned. He pulled up, yes he did. But there's no way to know for certain that it was 100% his fault. Maybe he stopped when he saw the flag (which deserves criticism, but not the same kind) or maybe he saw something else in the backfield to suggest the play was over?

I would suggest looking at some of his other plays, ones that are completed without the mitigating circumstance -- the one that stands out to me was the one last week where he clapped after giving up a 10-yard inside slant in man-to-man coverage because he was playing too far off the ball.

Douche Baggins
08-22-2005, 11:39 AM
Warner had all day to stand in the pocket, too.

I hate to break it to you, but alot of corners would have been toasted on that play.

Inspector
08-22-2005, 11:58 AM
Well, then we're ****ing doomed.

We might as well not play the game. Just take the loss and move on.

We'd have fewer injuries this way too.

Well, unless, one of the bouncers hit back.

ct
08-22-2005, 12:19 PM
So you know, FOR A FACT, that McCleon's assignment wasn't zone coverage? And you know for a fact that it wasn't a flat zone?

There was a hold. That adds way too many question marks to say 100% that he got burned. He pulled up, yes he did. But there's no way to know for certain that it was 100% his fault. Maybe he stopped when he saw the flag (which deserves criticism, but not the same kind) or maybe he saw something else in the backfield to suggest the play was over?

I would suggest looking at some of his other plays, ones that are completed without the mitigating circumstance -- the one that stands out to me was the one last week where he clapped after giving up a 10-yard inside slant in man-to-man coverage because he was playing too far off the ball.

Uh ya sure, I know this for a fact. I've also got the next set of lotto numbers if ya want em, just pm me, k?

TRR
08-22-2005, 12:20 PM
BULLSHIT! McCleon was watching the QB the whole way, and when Warner gave him a little pump he pulled up and Bolden flew right by. He got toasted, and no amount of 'his deep help didn't cover for him' spin will change that.

McCleon was step for step with Boldin. For some reason, he pulled up a second, and that gave Boldin enough time to seperate. However, I have the game on tape, and Warner didn't pump fake at all. He stood in the pocket, and threw the deep ball. McCleon saw something, maybe an underneath route he was going to jump, but he didn't get beat because Warner pumped him...That's for sure.

Douche Baggins
08-22-2005, 12:21 PM
McCleon was step for step with Boldin. For some reason, he pulled up a second, and that gave Boldin enough time to seperate. However, I have the game on tape, and Warner didn't pump fake at all. He stood in the pocket, and threw the deep ball. McCleon saw something, maybe an underneath route he was going to jump, but he didn't get beat because Warner pumped him...That's for sure.

Yep, I was pretty sure there was no pump, but not 100%. Thanks for clearing it up.

ct
08-22-2005, 12:29 PM
ok, send over my serving of dumbass pie

TRR
08-22-2005, 12:32 PM
Yep, I was pretty sure there was no pump, but not 100%. Thanks for clearing it up.

If McCleon didn't hesitate, Boldin would have had to make an excellent catch to beat Dexter. He was step for step with him until he hitched.

Chief Faithful
08-22-2005, 12:35 PM
OHMIGOD! SOMEONE GAVE UP A BIG PLAY! CUT HIM!

This place is going to IMPLODE the first time Surtain gets burned.

The difference is for McCleaned it was not the first time.

Douche Baggins
08-22-2005, 12:36 PM
The difference is for McCleaned it was not the first time.

Sure, but I'm willing to give him a pass on last year. He was hurt. When his injuries got better, he started playing better (see Denver game).

Chief Faithful
08-22-2005, 12:38 PM
So you know, FOR A FACT, that McCleon's assignment wasn't zone coverage? And you know for a fact that it wasn't a flat zone?



Didn't DV confirm that McCleaned got lucky having the play called back?

Chief Faithful
08-22-2005, 12:39 PM
Sure, but I'm willing to give him a pass on last year. He was hurt. When his injuries got better, he started playing better (see Denver game).

Fair enough, but he still needs to play better than he did his first year in KC.

TEX
08-22-2005, 12:40 PM
into the starting lineup for those 4 games. McCleon should not even be on the opening day roster--if we lineup with him on Sept. 11th, Pennington will have a field day.

Problem is that Sapp can do everything great except cover and the last I checked GUN requires his CB's to do that unlike the last guy who shall remain nameless. :hmmm:

Douche Baggins
08-22-2005, 12:41 PM
Fair enough, but he still needs to play better than he did his first year in KC.

You mean the year he had six interceptions? The year in which he was seen running stride for stride with Javon Walker and Andre Johnson on deep flies?

tk13
08-22-2005, 12:43 PM
Well, then we're ****ing doomed.

We might as well not play the game. Just take the loss and move on.
I don't think anyone said that. But Pennington looked pretty good Friday night, threw a nice deep ball and was pretty accurate. I personally think him and Law are going to be ready week 1, despite everybody's clamoring that there's no way they'll have an impact. Doesn't mean anybody has to throw a game, but we can't fantasize about a win because the opponent doesn't have their best players like we have all summer. At this point we've got enough of our own injuries to worry about.

tk13
08-22-2005, 12:48 PM
And I like Sapp... not sure he'd do much better against #2 WR's than McCleon would though. Plus Sapp is good to have in the slot because we can blitz him sometimes.

I'm not sure McCleon's ever had a problem running with somebody either.... seemed like a lot of times last year he was right with the WR but it was a jumpball and he just couldn't win it. I think we should probably arm him with a taser the first couples weeks against McCareins/Porter. You know the first time anybody gameplans for us, they're going to go right at him. Just like everybody did all of last year. Remember the Jets new OC Heimerdinger came from the Titans... and the Titans destroyed our corners last year, made Drew Bennett look like Steve Largent... you know he's licking his chops to do the same thing again.

htismaqe
08-22-2005, 12:59 PM
I don't think anyone said that. But Pennington looked pretty good Friday night, threw a nice deep ball and was pretty accurate. I personally think him and Law are going to be ready week 1, despite everybody's clamoring that there's no way they'll have an impact. Doesn't mean anybody has to throw a game, but we can't fantasize about a win because the opponent doesn't have their best players like we have all summer. At this point we've got enough of our own injuries to worry about.

First of all, it was sarcasm.

Second, the point is that in order for Pennington to "have a field day" he would FIRST have to stay healthy. And it's true. There's still a possibility that neither of them will be full-speed by 9/11 (although Pennington looks to be good to go).

It's the same argument that was had with Retarded Jets Fan last week -- he said Ty Law was gonna own our offense. Well, he has to get on the field first. That's a SECOND hurdle to overcome (our offense being the first) and every hurdle decreases the likelihood of it happening.

jidar1
08-22-2005, 01:01 PM
Pennington is underrated. He's a good sharp QB who can make things happen under pressure. and I'd fully expect him to exploit any weaknesses in our secondary.

Here's to hoping I'm wrong.

Law on the other hand... well I have a wait and see attitude about him but I really don't think he's going to be a shutdown corner his first game back.

tk13
08-22-2005, 01:04 PM
First of all, it was sarcasm.

Second, the point is that in order for Pennington to "have a field day" he would FIRST have to stay healthy. And it's true. There's still a possibility that neither of them will be full-speed by 9/11 (although Pennington looks to be good to go).

It's the same argument that was had with Retarded Jets Fan last week -- he said Ty Law was gonna own our offense. Well, he has to get on the field first. That's a SECOND hurdle to overcome (our offense being the first) and every hurdle decreases the likelihood of it happening.
He's supposed to play next week. I don't think Law is going to be 100% week 1, but 75% of Law is better than most NFL corners. Call me crazy, I just think he's going to be ready... plus as I said we are in no place to throw stones at other teams regarding injuries right now....

Wile_E_Coyote
08-22-2005, 01:11 PM
Law's first full practice was Sunday. He has gone from, will play the next preseason game to may play

Uatu
08-22-2005, 01:19 PM
You mean the year he had six interceptions? The year in which he was seen running stride for stride with Javon Walker and Andre Johnson on deep flies?

The year he was used correctly.

There are valid reasons to not want McCleon starting - but the people who hate him the most don't seem to need any.

And you're right, they did a pretty good job with a guy who I think is going to turn into a huge star in this league in Andre Johnson.

Chest Rockwell
08-22-2005, 01:25 PM
You will, of course, forgive me if Pennington's 9/10 in their second preseason game (where he threw for a grand total of 3 yards in two of the 3 drives he lead) doesn't strike fear into my heart.

I'm about as worried about Chad, Laverneus Coles, and Wayne Chrebet running roughshod over a defense as I am about Ty Pennington, Bimbo Coles, and Wayne Chrebet doing the same. Dex gave up one big non-play. I'm not on the Dex bandwagon, but I also don't think the Jets pass game will have a "field day" on him.

tk13
08-22-2005, 01:39 PM
You will, of course, forgive me if Pennington's 9/10 in their second preseason game (where he threw for a grand total of 3 yards in two of the 3 drives he lead) doesn't strike fear into my heart.

I'm about as worried about Chad, Laverneus Coles, and Wayne Chrebet running roughshod over a defense as I am about Ty Pennington, Bimbo Coles, and Wayne Chrebet doing the same. Dex gave up one big non-play. I'm not on the Dex bandwagon, but I also don't think the Jets pass game will have a "field day" on him.
I'm basing it off actually watching the game. He looked fine. He threw the deep ball without problem and he had a real nice touch on that TD pass he had. If it was bothering him, it didn't show. I do think we need to put some licks on him week 1 to test him, that's for sure. I think there were a lot of mediocre passing defenses that lit us up last year though, I'm not putting it past the Jets until I see it on week 1. We bombed hard against worse receivers than Coles/McCareins. McCareins is probably going to be McCleon's matchup most of the time I imagine.

htismaqe
08-22-2005, 01:43 PM
He's supposed to play next week. I don't think Law is going to be 100% week 1, but 75% of Law is better than most NFL corners. Call me crazy, I just think he's going to be ready... plus as I said we are in no place to throw stones at other teams regarding injuries right now....

All I'm saying is that shutting down the Chiefs offense is a HUGE feat and he can't even START to tackle that task until he gets on the field, which is still up in the air.

With Pennington, the situation is much the same. Sure, McCleon is a liability, but in order for Pennington to exploit it, he's got to play first.

It's called counting chickens before they hatch. Do I think Pennington will play? Sure. Will he have a "field day" against our defense? Not bloody likely.

htismaqe
08-22-2005, 01:44 PM
Bimbo Coles

ROFL

htismaqe
08-22-2005, 01:45 PM
There are valid reasons to not want McCleon starting - but the people who hate him the most don't seem to need any.

It's the same with Carl Peterson. People tend to ignore the facts, especially the ones that PROVE he's inept, and go for the hyberbole instead.

Chief Faithful
08-22-2005, 01:47 PM
You mean the year he had six interceptions? The year in which he was seen running stride for stride with Javon Walker and Andre Johnson on deep flies?

The same guy who had a hard time holding a starting role because of inconsistency and had many Planeteers saying at best he should be the nickel back.

Douche Baggins
08-22-2005, 01:49 PM
The same guy who had a hard time holding a starting role because of inconsistency and had many Planeteers saying at best he should be the nickel back.

Like I said, I give him a pass on last year due to his injury. The dude couldn't even raise his arm.

Uatu
08-22-2005, 01:50 PM
The same guy who had a hard time holding a starting role because of inconsistency

Who, in your mind, was pushing him for the starting role? Bartee?

...and had many Planeteers saying at best he should be the nickel back.

Someone said it on the planet so that proves it.

Rausch
08-22-2005, 01:53 PM
If the rest of our defense can't cowboy up and carry McPasson for 4 games we're in trouble.

The guy's play makes my stomach reverse the direction of lunch. Given. But players are going to have bad games. If we can't get over one corner playing like $#it for 3 or 4 games HTF are we going to overcome injuries and a slow offensive day?

Chest Rockwell
08-22-2005, 01:53 PM
I'm basing it off actually watching the game. He looked fine. He threw the deep ball without problem and he had a real nice touch on that TD pass he had. If it was bothering him, it didn't show. I do think we need to put some licks on him week 1 to test him, that's for sure. I think there were a lot of mediocre passing defenses that lit us up last year though, I'm not putting it past the Jets until I see it on week 1. We bombed hard against worse receivers than Coles/McCareins. McCareins is probably going to be McCleon's matchup most of the time I imagine.

I'll agree with you as to putting pressure on Pennington. I watched the game too, and it looks like the same old Pennington to me. Thing is, Penninton has never = teh scary. Sure he's accurate. Sure he's a competent and servicieable QB. Sure worse QBs and recievers have had big days against the Chiefs D before. I'm just not jumping out windows because the D gave up one long pass play that didn't even count and Chad Pennington seems to be healthy.

Now if the story breaks that they replaced his labrum with Payton Manning's, we can start discussing the possibility of a big day even though there are only 2 preseason games down.

jspchief
08-22-2005, 02:25 PM
If the rest of our defense can't cowboy up and carry McPasson for 4 games we're in trouble.

The guy's play makes my stomach reverse the direction of lunch. Given. But players are going to have bad games. If we can't get over one corner playing like $#it for 3 or 4 games HTF are we going to overcome injuries and a slow offensive day?I agree with this post. If our coaches and players can't find a way to get it done without Warfield for 4 weeks, we aren't a play-off team anyway.

the Talking Can
08-22-2005, 02:43 PM
If the rest of our defense can't cowboy up and carry McPasson for 4 games we're in trouble.

The guy's play makes my stomach reverse the direction of lunch. Given. But players are going to have bad games. If we can't get over one corner playing like $#it for 3 or 4 games HTF are we going to overcome injuries and a slow offensive day?

yup...I don't like McCleon, but if we can't compensate for him then we suck ass.....

Chief Faithful
08-22-2005, 03:28 PM
Who, in your mind, was pushing him for the starting role? Bartee?



Yes, which says a lot about his performance.

Douche Baggins
08-22-2005, 03:30 PM
DV on the big play:



“We had a mistake in the secondary and gave up a big play that was called. A corner was supposed to get safety deep help and he didn’t get safety deep help."

htismaqe
08-22-2005, 03:52 PM
yup...I don't like McCleon, but if we can't compensate for him then we suck ass.....

:clap:

hbkeay
08-22-2005, 03:52 PM
i think mccleon has some of the best skills in the game. and sometimes he can hit like a linebacker (last year on antonio gates). it seems like the only times he gets beat are on the go routes. maybe wesley and knight can help him deep. is mccleon's age a factor? i don't remember him ever being very fast.