View Full Version : If 1 of the STOOGES had to go, which cut would be most benneficial?

09-07-2000, 03:08 PM
I know that unfortunately we'll have all 3 for the remainder of this season, but just suppose that Gun wises up (or his job is threatened)and must fire 1 of the Stooges (I hope all 3 get the axe), which one does he fire? If only one is to go, whose departure would IMPROVE the team the most. My vote is for Jimmy "3 and OUT" Raye to get axed. ANYONE and I mewan ANYONE would be better!

09-07-2000, 03:10 PM
I think we can probably make this a unanimous Jimmy Raye vote & move on....

Clint in Wichita
09-07-2000, 03:10 PM
Carl...the rest will then take care of itself!

This is my signature!! There are many like it but this one is mine!!

09-07-2000, 03:11 PM
Slam dunk...JR

Bob Dole
09-07-2000, 03:11 PM
Bob Dole votes to send Martha Raye packing...

(Maybe someone should make this the survey question and we can send the results to WHB.)

09-07-2000, 03:15 PM
This is just too funny! I wonder if anyone even wants the guy? How could Gun KEEP him? There were some (NOT ME) that said that JR deserved another chance because the offense scored a lot of points last year, especially in the red zone. To all of those that actually said that - I TOLD YOU SO! Raye's offense helped Marty decise to retire and I bet it does the same for Gun! I'm serious when I say this but the Chiefs would be BETTER off with ME in the booth!

09-07-2000, 06:21 PM
Jimmy Raye, without a doubt. (But in all fairness I admit I often wonder if Gun isn't pulling his strings)

09-07-2000, 06:24 PM
RAYE! Idiot moron dipsh!t loser retard scumbag f#ckhead!

Any questions?

09-07-2000, 06:34 PM

But I would hate like hell keeping Kurt, http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/frown.gif oh wait I would hate like hell keeping Stock, oh wait I would hate like f..k..g hell to keep Kurt. Oh damn you mean I have to keep Stock. http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/mad.gif

Ahhh, well at least Jimmy Raye would be gone http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Jim Reynolds
Please no squiggles in my discussion zone!

09-07-2000, 07:06 PM
Clint's response hit the nail on the head.

We must kill the head so the body will die...

see ya, Petersuck!

0-16 people, we've gotta do it. This team needs an enema in the worst possible way.<P>

09-07-2000, 07:07 PM
Moe Raye. I said this a few months ago. The real Three Stooges would be better at the positions that the Chiefs' Moe, Larry, and Curly Joe hold down. But none of the other two are as bad as Raye.


Red Eyes
[i]Chinn Up, it ain't nothin' but a thang.</I>

09-07-2000, 07:12 PM
Cannibal and Kurt,

Lamar is enamored of CP, while you could very well be correct 0-16 with the current staff only gets rid of this staff (and that is only a maybe). It is only possible to hope for CP's elimination if during the early part of the season CP changes out the staff and the same old philosophy is used by the replacements. Then (and again unfortunately only maybe) will CP be replaced. I understand your frustration but I just do not see LH after CP produced the third winningest team of the last decade replacing CP. I am beginning to believe you both are right in your desire, I just question if you understand how it is most likely to be realized?

Jim Reynolds
Please no squiggles in my discussion zone!

09-07-2000, 07:12 PM
Kurt would be my choice. Here is why.

Our defense continues to get worse with each game. Look what we had in '97 compared to now. No pass rush, soft zone, obvious blitz schemes, etc. With the talent that we had last year and this year, we should be better.

I honestly think that our offensive philosophy is dictated by Gunther. Gunther has repeatedly stated that he wants to run the ball and pound our opposition into submission. He has stated that he will not pass the ball when we are inside our 20 in fear of an INT. I think that is proof enough that Raye is handcuffed by Gun. Coupled with the fact that our skills position players are horribly average, I don't think there is much Jimmy Raye could do. He was able to get Morris involved in his first professinal game even though the guy missed 80% of camp. Elvis and Gonzo also had career years last season when Raye scaled back the offense. We were productive in the red zone and I feel it was a step in the right direction.

Finally, as to Stock and special teams, I think Stock gets screwed by Carl and Gun. Stock didn't acquire Pope. I'm sure Stock didn't insist on keeping Stoyo for kickoffs last year. Is it Stocks fault that Gun wanted Cloud to return kicks our opening game, but yet never gave him the opportunity to do so in preseason? I think Stock is given players to work with, and that he isn't given much.

09-07-2000, 07:21 PM
Stock - While ST is not on the field very much, they create our situations. With a REAL ST coach, fundementals will be BURNT into our personnel.....

Looking hard at Raye, but having to kick Stock to the curb.

09-07-2000, 07:22 PM

I am glad someone other than Clint, Kurt and myself has come to this realization. However, I believe that Peterson WILL be fired when the the stadium stops selling out.

To be honest I am hoping that happens this year. As unfortunate as it is I have been forced to root for the Chiefs to lose so that we can begin rebuilding this team. So while it would be nice in the short term for the Chiefs to win in Tenn. this week, it will only prolong the inevitable.

[This message has been edited by Cannibal (edited 09-07-2000).]

09-07-2000, 07:24 PM
ChiefNJ - While Stock didn't hire Pope, he sure as hell trains the rest of the 10 on the field. They DONT TACKLE. They dont stay in their lanes.

That is Stock's fault, plain and simple.

Pope did not allow a 40 yard return last week. Pope is not stopping our return game consistently behind the 20 and giving the other team an additional 10-15 yrds past the 20 almost every time.

09-07-2000, 07:26 PM
Firing Stooge Peterson would have a ripple effect. No GM in their right mind would have Gunter Cunningham coach a team that is rebuilding. He doesnt have a clue. So when Peterson goes, so does the crap coaching staff.

This program will be left in a world of hurt for the new GM. It may be a few years to repair the damage that Peterson has caused. Especially on the salary cap front.

09-07-2000, 07:37 PM

Nobody on the team tackles. Kirby Dar Dar was in on many special team tackles last preseason and this year, but yet he was cut. Stock's decision? You mention our inability to get past the 20 on kickoffs. I ask you again, do you think it was Stock's decision to not let Cloud handle all of the returns in preseason and let him sink or swim in the home opener? I'm not saying he's a good ST coach, but it is a fact that he has been given some atrocious players to work with.

I agree that you have to kill the head if the problem is to be fixed.

- Carl Peterson, the man who has gotten more out of a single AFC Championship game than any other G.M. in history.

09-07-2000, 07:45 PM
ChiefNJ - I disagree, he has been given AVERAGE players to work with, not atrocious... and he has done absolutely nothing to make me think that he is attempting to make them improve.

09-07-2000, 07:51 PM
Any kicker who boots three balls out of bounds in a single game is an atrocious player.<P>

09-07-2000, 07:52 PM
ChiefNJ - That player is no longer on the team... sorry, not a valid excuse.

09-07-2000, 07:55 PM
That player never should have been on the team. Oh, I forget it was Stock who was so impressed that the guy wore short sleeves in cold weather.

09-07-2000, 07:56 PM
ChiefNJ - Nonetheless, Pope's abilities are no longer in question here. Are you stating that Sauerbraun is "atrocious" as well? If not, then your argument is not valid.

09-07-2000, 08:01 PM

I think you over rate the cap issue. All these thing were said last year. We only lost one significant player Tongue. We could argue until we are blue in the face about the quality of the players we picked up, but the fact remains that there was actual cap room available and money spent despite the dire prediction. I really feel that you and other (probably me as well) are unqualified and should quit worrying about the cap until it really becomes a problem. So far only SF has been unable to handle it, heck even Dallas has been able to continue signing major names. We all can predict gloom on the cap front, but we basically have not been right yet.

Jim Reynolds
Please no squiggles in my discussion zone!

09-07-2000, 08:02 PM

What argument do you think I am making? I think you are attempting to put words in my mouth. The post asked which stooge would you like to see go, I said Kurt. The reason why I'd keep Stock over Kurt is because I think Stock has been hampered by some of the players that he was give. It is a fact that he was given some bad people.

As for this year, Gun was revolving players on special teams just like he does at HB. Stock, nor the starting players, benefit from this. Furthermore, Saurbrun is not an atrocious player, but yet, if you watched the game last week you would have noticed that many of his punts were line drives with no hang time. Obviously our coverage unit could not make it down field in time. I guess Stock told him to kick those line drives.

09-07-2000, 08:05 PM
ChiefNJ - Maybe you misunderstand what I am saying.....

The kicker and return man are not the only ST people I am looking at. The other coverage men are what bother me. They are not doing the job they were assigned. This is either due to poor coaching or a whole lotta bad luck.

In the off season, everyone was stating how much better the ST would be because of Sauerbraun. I was one of the few who stated it would not change as long as Stock was coach, and so far I am right.

09-07-2000, 08:14 PM
I agree that the coverage was poor, but I think the problem was caused by the fact that there was only 2 1/2 seconds of hang time. Ben Johnson couldn't make it down the field that quickly to cover the kick.

09-07-2000, 08:17 PM
ChiefNJ - The coverage is ALWAYS poor. Whether the hangtime is 2 or 4 seconds. It takes three different men to come in contact with a returner before he is even slowed down, and usually a couple more before he is tackled.

ST is much more important than many make it out to be. Even if you don't score, as long as you get field position, your team has a MUCH greater chance to win.

09-07-2000, 11:38 PM
So far here's the results:

1. Raye - by a long shot

2. Petrson - a distant second with an outside shot at surpassing Raye

3. Mike Stock - closing in on Peterson

4. Kurt - way out of the race at this point but he has potential to get back inot it.

09-08-2000, 07:27 AM
Raye is #1 with a bullet. His predictable play calling wastes the most talent this team has had on Offense for years.

Schottenheimer is #2, but is closing fast. Our once dominant, attacking Defense is a pale imitation of what it once was. We have no pass rush. Our blitz packages are almost a predictable as our Offensive play calling and are almost as effective. Instead of tackling, we try to strip the ball. After all this time, we still cannot defense a screen pass.

Stock is a distant #3. Yes, he is inept and does not deserve to represent the red & gold, but his damage to the team is limited. While I acknowledge that ST can provide a critical boost in a game, the other two Stooges hurt us on every play. Stock is back in the pack because he only hurts us on a change of possession.

done with the Stooges, moving on to the UberStooges.<BR>

09-08-2000, 07:27 AM
Gunther deserves serious consideration, too. He retained the Three Stooges, putting loyalty above the best interests of the team. He lost [3] games last season [Chicago, Seattle, Seattle] because he refused to game plan against an opponent. Even worse, he used the same failed non-plan against a team the beat us the first time. He uses preseason solely for player evaluation and as a result, our starters are rusty in the opener and dropped lots of passes. He is not #1 only because I like him. But that reservoir of goodwill is rapidly emptying. If losing Gunther is the price we pay to get rid of the Stooges, then move him to #1.

Peterson needs serious help in drafting Offensive playmakers. He paid too much for Williams, panicked and brought in Gray and cursed at Tait <gasp!>. But he also managed to turn a failure into one of the most successful franchises in the last decade.

has nothing good to say about our coaching staff.<BR>

09-08-2000, 07:41 AM

just my 38216515454123481651** http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/wink.gif

09-08-2000, 07:42 AM
I would get rid of Jimmy ShottenStock http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Cold beer??? Yeah, I'll take one