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View Full Version : Armstrong denies '99 doping reports It looks to be true.


KingPriest2
08-23-2005, 03:45 PM
Armstrong denies '99 doping reports
Posted: Tuesday August 23, 2005 11:38AM; Updated: Tuesday August 23, 2005 11:50AM


Lance Armstrong, who won his seventh straight Tour de France last month, has been deflecting doping reports since his first title.
AP

PARIS (AP) -- A French newspaper says Lance Armstrong used the performance-enhancing drug EPO to help win his first Tour de France in 1999, a report the seven-time Tour winner vehemently denied.

L'Equipe devoted four pages to its allegations, with a Tuesday front-page headline "The Armstrong Lie." The paper said that signs of EPO use showed up in Armstrong's urine six times during the '99 race.

"Unfortunately, the witch hunt continues and tomorrow's article is nothing short of tabloid journalism," Armstrong wrote on his Web site. "I will simply restate what I have said many times: I have never taken performance-enhancing drugs."

However, the Tour de France's director said Tuesday that L'Equipe's report seemed "very complete, very professional, very meticulous" and that it "appears credible."

"We are very shocked, very troubled by the revelations we read this morning," Jean-Marie Leblanc told RTL radio. However, he cautioned that Armstrong, his doctors and his aides should be heard out before people make any final judgment.

Leblanc also said any disciplinary action appeared unlikely, based on the L'Equipe account. The paper's investigation was based solely on B samples -- the second of two samples used in doping tests. The A samples were used up in 1999 for analysis at the time.

The governing body of world cycling did not begin using a urine test for EPO until 2001. For years, it had been impossible to detect the drug, called erythropoietin, which builds endurance by boosting the production of oxygen-rich red blood cells.

EPO tests on the 1999 B urine samples were not carried out until last year, when scientists performed research on them to fine-tune EPO testing methods, the paper said.

The national anti-doping laboratory in Chatenay-Malabry, which developed the EPO test and analyzed the urine samples in question, said it could not confirm that the positive EPO results were Armstrong's.

It noted that the samples were anonymous, bearing only a a six-digit number to identify the rider, and could not be matched with the name of any one cyclist.

However, L'Equipe said it was able to make the match. It printed photos of what it said were official doping documents. On one side of the page, it showed what it said were the results of EPO tests from anonymous riders used for lab research. On the other, it showed Armstrong's medical certificates, signed by doctors and riders after doping tests -- and bearing the same identifying number printed on the results.

The lab statement said it had promised to turn over its results to the World Anti-Doping Agency "on condition that they could not be used in any disciplinary proceeding."

"It will be very interesting to see what UCI does and what the U.S. Cycling Federation does and what Lance Armstrong has to say," WADA chairman Dick Pound said. "If the evidence is seen as credible than yes, he has an obligation to come forward and specifically give his comments, especially after his previous comments that he has never used drugs.

"If anything were found, we couldn't do anything because we didn't even exist in 1999. But it's important that the truth must always be made clear," Pound added.

L'Equipe, whose parent company is closely linked to the Tour, has frequently raised questions about how Armstrong could have made his spectacular comeback from testicular cancer without using performance enhancers. L'Equipe is owned by the Amaury Group whose subsidiary, Amaury Sport Organization, organizes the Tour de France and other sporting events.

A former L'Equipe journalist, Pierre Ballester, was co-author of a book published last year that contained doping allegations against Armstrong. He wrote the book with Sunday Times sportswriter David Walsh.

In the book, L.A. Confidential, the Secrets of Lance Armstrong, one of the cyclist's former assistants claimed that Armstrong once asked her to dispose of used syringes and give him makeup to conceal needle marks on his arms.

Armstrong has taken libel action against The Sunday Times after the British newspaper reprinted allegations in a review of the book in June 2004. The case will go to trial in London's High Court in November.

Armstrong retired from cycling after his record seventh straight Tour victory last month.

French Sports Minister Jean-Francois Lamour said he was deeply saddened by the allegations, though he noted that they were unconfirmed and never could be because of the lost A samples.

"It's a shock to learn this about a great champion," the former Olympic champion fencer said. "This is certainly an element that could tarnish his image."

Copyright 2005 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

BIG_DADDY
08-23-2005, 03:49 PM
I'm sick of the French they just won't stop.

Donger
08-23-2005, 03:50 PM
Doesn't look true to me at all. In fact, I'd call it highly dubious.

Donger
08-23-2005, 03:51 PM
I'm sick of the French they just won't stop.

Indeed. They couldn't beat him when he was riding, so they try this after he retires.

WisChief
08-23-2005, 03:52 PM
expect an "I told you so" from Greg Lemond any day now.

And for any one to believe L'Equipe when it comes to Armstrong is like believing the NY or LA Times when it comes to Bush.

They want to see him fry because he dominated their country, their sport and their race.

Fuq em.

Coach
08-23-2005, 03:53 PM
F**king Frenchies just won't give it up.

Bwana
08-23-2005, 03:55 PM
PARIS (AP) -- A French newspaper says

That's about as far as I got. FU*K the stinky hairy little French bastards. The usless crybabies are just sore losers.

Kyle401
08-23-2005, 03:56 PM
asked her to dispose of used syringes and give him makeup to conceal needle marks on his arms.


:rolleyes: An athlete who spends a great amount of time sweating profusely is going to use makeup to conceal needle marks on his arms??

BigRedChief
08-23-2005, 03:58 PM
expect an "I told you so" from Greg Lemond any day now.

And for any one to believe L'Equipe when it comes to Armstrong is like believing the NY or LA Times when it comes to Bush.

They want to see him fry because he dominated their country, their sport and their race.

Fuq em.

What he said! :clap:

Halfcan
08-23-2005, 03:59 PM
The guy had Cancer- and certain cancer treatments have synthetic steroids in them. For Armstrong to risk evrything to get an edge when he knows he had the best team, equipement, natural ability is absurd. I would like to see him go back next year and whip the french dandies for an 8th time.

Donger
08-23-2005, 04:04 PM
FU*K the stinky hairy little French bastards.

Heh. That's almost as good as "cheese-eating, surrender monkeys."

WisChief
08-23-2005, 04:07 PM
The guy had Cancer- and certain cancer treatments have synthetic steroids in them. For Armstrong to risk evrything to get an edge when he knows he had the best team, equipement, natural ability is absurd. I would like to see him go back next year and whip the french dandies for an 8th time.


This brings up a good point. In 99 he didn't necessarily have the best team, or the best equipment and he surely didn't "know" he was going to win. They went in there hoping for a good performance based on his previous year's results at the Tour of Spain and the World Championships. What's my point? I find it interesting that they (the French Fuqs) would pick 99 when that was the year he was not the big dog. They have a built in excuse "Well, the other years he figured out how to cheat the system and US. In 99 he was too stupid to not get caught." Something like that.

beavis
08-23-2005, 04:13 PM
Indeed. They couldn't beat him when he was riding, so they try this after he retires.
I'm suprised they didn't surrender after his second win.

Donger
08-23-2005, 04:15 PM
I'm suprised they didn't surrender after his second win.

Well, they did and now that he's gone, they're back at it again. Not unlike what happened after the Germans 'left.'

Lzen
08-23-2005, 04:19 PM
How does this look to be true, KingPriest? This looks like a load of crap from the jealous frogs. And some of this stuff in the article takes an idiot to buy into it. :rolleyes:

WisChief
08-23-2005, 04:25 PM
"It's a shock to learn this about a great champion," the former Olympic champion fencer said. "This is certainly an element that could tarnish his image."

His "image"? In who's eyes? The French? Yea, right. :rolleyes:

KingPriest2
08-23-2005, 04:28 PM
How does this look to be true, KingPriest? This looks like a load of crap from the jealous frogs. And some of this stuff in the article takes an idiot to buy into it. :rolleyes:


French Sports Minister Jean-Francois Lamour I thought this guy always supported Armstrong.

WisChief
08-23-2005, 04:29 PM
French Sports Minister Jean-Francois Lamour I thought this guy always supported Armstrong.
You may be confusing this guy with LaBlanc - the TDF race director.

Rain Man
08-23-2005, 05:01 PM
Perhaps this is a good time to point out that the Bron cos cheated on the salary cap to get their Super Bowl trophies.

andoman
08-23-2005, 05:51 PM
Perhaps this is a good time to point out that the Bron cos cheated on the salary cap to get their Super Bowl trophies.

Yeah. And don't forget about the crisco!

hbkeay
08-23-2005, 06:55 PM
who cares about cycling anyway? let armstrong be, nobody cares even if he did use drugs.

Tinlar
08-24-2005, 11:44 AM
How important do you have to be to someone in order for them to want to keep your 6 year old piss around?

Mr. Laz
08-24-2005, 11:48 AM
first off ... why wait and bring this up after he wins and retires.

suspect right there


and with the way i understand it testing for EPO generally has to include another sample from the athlete so they can compare the red blood cell levels. This test happened without a "base sample"


it all sounds hinky

WisChief
08-24-2005, 11:51 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/news/story?id=2141710

It's not looking good but this quote stuck out to me:

Five-time (TDF) cycling champion Miguel Indurain said he couldn't understand why scientists would use samples from the 1999 Tour for their tests.


"That seems bizarre, and I don't know who would have the authorization to do it," he told L'Equipe. "I don't even know if it's legal to keep these samples."

WisChief
08-24-2005, 11:52 AM
first off ... why wait and bring this up after he wins and retires.

suspect right there


and with the way i understand it testing for EPO generally has to include another sample from the athlete so they can compare the red blood cell levels. This test happened without a "base sample"


it all sounds hinky

And you're correct - the A samples were used up in the initial testing.

StcChief
08-24-2005, 12:13 PM
F the French.
They can't win their own race.

Maybe next year, since the Tour De Lance is over.

Braincase
08-24-2005, 12:15 PM
The whole chain of custody on the evidence is HIGHLY questionable. I'm calling bullshit. How come they have to go all the way back to '99? Where's the evidence for his other 6 wins?

Mr. Laz
08-24-2005, 12:18 PM
The whole chain of custody on the evidence is HIGHLY questionable. I'm calling bullshit. How come they have to go all the way back to '99? Where's the evidence for his other 6 wins?
they don't even have a name on the sample let alone any change of custody.

the company won't even verify that it's Armstrongs


someone got a # and tracked it down to "supposedly" being armstrong's # from back in '99.


it's all very loose :shake:

WisChief
08-24-2005, 12:25 PM
they don't even have a name on the sample let alone any change of custody.

the company won't even verify that it's Armstrongs


someone got a # and tracked it down to "supposedly" being armstrong's # from back in '99.


it's all very loose :shake:


Separately, the lab said it could not confirm that the positive results were Armstrong's. It noted that the samples were anonymous, bearing only a six-digit number to identify the rider, and could not be matched with the name of any one cyclist.

However, L'Equipe said it was able to make the match.

On one side of a page Tuesday, it showed what it claimed were the results of EPO tests from anonymous riders used for lab research. On the other, it showed Armstrong's medical certificates, signed by doctors and riders after doping tests -- and bearing the same identifying number printed on the results.

Donger
08-24-2005, 12:34 PM
However, L'Equipe said it was able to make the match.

The same L'Equipe that said this?

"Never to such an extent, probably, has the departure of a champion been welcomed with such widespread relief"

Mr. Laz
08-24-2005, 12:35 PM
Separately, the lab said it could not confirm that the positive results were Armstrong's. It noted that the samples were anonymous, bearing only a six-digit number to identify the rider, and could not be matched with the name of any one cyclist.

However, L'Equipe said it was able to make the match.

On one side of a page Tuesday, it showed what it claimed were the results of EPO tests from anonymous riders used for lab research. On the other, it showed Armstrong's medical certificates, signed by doctors and riders after doping tests -- and bearing the same identifying number printed on the results.
and the next question is "do we trust L'Equipe to make a correct match and give the correct results" ?


and that question just starts the whole thing .. it doesn't even address the whole validity of a frozen sample with no comparison sample.


i don't know lance armstrong personally and can't vouch for his methods but i do know that the biking world has been very "energetic" in their testing attitude about Armstrong and he hasn't ever tested positive in the past.

if this old/frozen/partial/semi-anonomous test is the best they can do then i would doubt the whole issue.

Braincase
08-24-2005, 12:38 PM
What was the name of the French sports congress? Le Nauzzelles du Douche?

WisChief
08-24-2005, 12:39 PM
On the surface, this is just toooo damn easy to tear apart - we're doing it right here on the Planet.

Wait till Armstrong's, Nike's, Trek's, Oakley's, Discovery Channel's, US Postal's, ect. ect. ect. lawyers dive into this. These people have too much invested in this to let the French bitches get away with it. And I can't even imagine it will be hard for them to do.

WarCry!
08-24-2005, 12:49 PM
I'm curious - does anybody know how long after Lance's cancer treatment that he won the 99 race? It's interesting, because EPO is sometimes used as a drug in cancer therapy because a patient becomes anemic either from the cancer itself or from the treatment process. So, in theory, it's not unreasonable to think that Armstrong may have had medical need for EPO (the banned "doping agent" he supposedly tested positive for). Just not sure how long after his treatment was finished that this urine test would have happened.

Having said that, the French are just bitter and angry and I don't generally believe a frickin word they say.....

WisChief
08-24-2005, 12:59 PM
I'm curious - does anybody know how long after Lance's cancer treatment that he won the 99 race? It's interesting, because EPO is sometimes used as a drug in cancer therapy because a patient becomes anemic either from the cancer itself or from the treatment process. So, in theory, it's not unreasonable to think that Armstrong may have had medical need for EPO (the banned "doping agent" he supposedly tested positive for). Just not sure how long after his treatment was finished that this urine test would have happened.

Having said that, the French are just bitter and angry and I don't generally believe a frickin word they say.....


He was diagnosed in Oct of 96 and I think clean in about 18 months later. I thought of your exact thoughts on EPO being used for cancer but I doubt it in this case.

Chief Faithful
08-24-2005, 01:03 PM
Based on the article in USAtoday not only is the test called into question is seems the test is not valid without the "A" sample, which doesn't exist. Thus, even if Lance cheated they can't prove it or do anything about it.

USAToday Article (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycling/2005-08-24-tour-director_x.htm)

In everyway it looks to be a witch hunt by a French tabloid to tarnish the American.

Simplex3
08-24-2005, 01:27 PM
They're just pissed because an American ruled their country for 7 years and the only reason they got it back was because he decided to leave. They desperately want to invalidate at least one win so that he doesn't hold a record that is likely to go unbroken for decades.

Here's Lance's play if I'm his advisor. Call a press conference for when the Frenchies are just about to begin their after work news cycle (2pm their time?) and say this:

Lance: "Listen up frogs. You either drop this and leave me alone or I'm coming back next year. And the year after that. I'm going to be kicking your ass into my 50's. Now, sit down, grab some croisants, and shut the f**k up before I have send my girlfriend over to bitch slap your sorry ass."

Halfcan
08-24-2005, 01:27 PM
You guys are missing a VERY BIG POINT!! Lqueer magazine is in the business of selling their product to the ignorant masses to make a profit. By posting these ridiculous unfounded claims they can take advantage of the lingering hate the frenchies have for LA-thus pushing their usual sales through the roof. Then they can keep making counter claims and milk the story until it finally goes away or LA sues them. If LA sues them 1. They have allready made their money anyway. 2. They have a whole new story to defraud the guy.

I really wish he would train and kick their asses again. Then what? LA is an alien from Mars giving him an unfair advantage.

ChiefsFanatic
08-24-2005, 10:17 PM
F**king Frenchies just won't give it up.

Well, not without a long stick and a white flag.

Rausch
08-24-2005, 10:36 PM
Just like the Frogs: lose, then beg for $#it and blame everyone other than themselves.

BigRedChief
08-29-2005, 12:53 PM
PARIS, France -- Lance Armstrong's record setting seventh Tour de France victory, along with his entire Tour de France legacy, may be tarnished by what could turn out to be one of the greatest sports scandals of all time.

Armstrong is being quizzed by French police after three banned substances were found in his South France hotel room while on vacation after winning the 2005 Tour de France.

The three substances found were toothpaste, deodorant, and soap which have been banned by French authorities for over 75 years.

Armstrong's girlfriend, American rocker Sheryl Crowe, is quoted as saying "We use them every day in America, so we naturally thought they'd be ok throughout Europe."

Along with these three banned substances, French authorities also physically searched Armstrong and found several other interesting items that they had never seen before, including a backbone and a testicle.


credit to a poster on the coalition site

buddha
08-29-2005, 01:04 PM
Heh. That's almost as good as "cheese-eating, surrender monkeys."

First of all, that is one of the two to three funniest things I've read all year!

Second, try becoming a competitive athlete after having any form of cancer...ANY form, let alone testicular cancer.

Third, I don't believe it's true...not by a long shot. However, even if it was, what pathetic excuse with the Frenchies come up with to explain his success since 2001? He has been tested constantly throughout his career and has NEVER failed a drug test. Doesn't it seem much more likely that the pathetic Frenchies are doing everything in their power to discredit an American after the fact, including doctoring evidence, just so they can retain some sense of national pride after getting worked seven times by Armstrong?

This is all such incredible bull$hit.

Leave Lance and Sheryl alone so they can get busy having a happy, healthy life together!

Lance Armstong...true American hero!