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KingPriest2
08-23-2005, 03:14 PM
What a joke.


NCAA removes Seminoles from hostile list

August 23, 2005
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) -- The NCAA will allow Florida State to use its Seminoles nickname in postseason play, removing the school from a list of colleges with Native American nicknames that were restricted by an NCAA decision earlier this month.

The NCAA said it was recognizing the relationship Florida State has long enjoyed with the Seminole Tribe of Florida, which assists the university with its pageantry and celebration of its culture and supports the school's use of its name.

``The staff review committee noted the unique relationship between the university and the Seminole Tribe of Florida as a significant factor,'' the NCAA said Tuesday. ``The decision of a namesake sovereign tribe, regarding when and how its name and imagery can be used, must be respected even when others may not agree.''

Florida State President T.K. Wetherell had threatened to sue the NCAA immediately after its Aug. 5 announcement that the school's highly visible nickname, ``Seminoles,'' was defined as ``hostile and abusive'' by a committee.

The NCAA said it would handle reviews from other schools on a case-by-case basis. The Illinois Fighting Illini, Utah Utes and North Dakota Fighting Sioux are among other prominent school nicknames that remain affected by the edict.

Under the NCAA restrictions, teams with American Indian nicknames would not be able to use them in postseason tournaments.


Updated on Tuesday, Aug 23, 2005 3:12 pm EDT

KingPriest2
08-23-2005, 03:16 PM
Bureaucrats know best?

By Dan Wetzel, Yahoo! Sports
August 11, 2005




Here is the simple solution for the University of North Dakota or any other school with a Native American mascot the busybodies at the NCAA have deemed "hostile and abusive."

Just tell the politically correct set one thing about that Fighting Sioux in your logo:

He's gay.

Watch the NCAA try to eliminate him then.

That is a perfectly absurd solution to a perfectly absurd bit of perfectly absurd social engineering by an organization that continues to perfectly define absurdity.

The NCAA recently said it would prohibit teams from using mascots the NCAA has deemed "hostile and abusive" in its postseason tournaments.

The NCAA says the nickname "Seminole" is "hostile and abusive" when used by Florida State even though the actual Seminole tribe's leadership says it isn't. And the tribe both supports and financially benefits from the school's use of the name.

But bureaucrats know best, right?

Now, when it comes to offensive nicknames I am firmly on the fence. I see some of the logos and phrases and I cringe. But some of the logos, phrases and rituals seem quite appropriate and respectful. In some places these are partnerships, not exploitations. And many Native Americans must feel a sense of pride to have their heritage so visible and celebrated.

But that is just me. Mostly I understand that my personal feelings on the subject should not be the law of the land. It is up to the parties involved. If the Sioux and North Dakota or the Seminoles and Florida State think things are fine, who are you, me or some central office in Indianapolis to tell them they are all wrong?

Finding one single voice of protest shouldn't be enough to silence reasonable discussion on the subject either. Everything offends someone. When I was a student at the University of Massachusetts in the 1990s, a guy went on a hunger strike protesting the school's Minuteman mascot because the Minuteman was white.

Obviously he wasn't a history major. He finally ate and the Minuteman mascot survived, even if the school's basketball program didn't.

But this is the kind of foolishness the NCAA has decided to wade into. Can anyone reasonably explain why the NCAA believes the Fighting Sioux of one UND (North Dakota) is bad, but the Fighting Irish of another UND (Notre Dame) is good?

Perhaps, because when it comes to arrogance the NCAA knows no limits.

The NCAA has a mountain of its own pressing issues to deal with widespread rule breaking, corruption, inadequate graduation rates, rampant commercialization, misplaced priorities, Title IX violations, weak minority hiring records, drug abuse, gambling and a history as one of the most sexist, racist, elitist organizations in American history.

So you can see why it had enough free time to stick its nose in a classic meaningless ivory tower debate.

Next up: If college football indeed is a religion, can we place the Ten Commandments outside the stadium?

Perhaps the NCAA is using this as a PC smokescreen, figuring it provides cover from questions about what it will take for its member institutions to actually believe African-Americans are intelligent enough to coach football, or for schools to actually obey a federal statute that demands equality for women athletes.

Or gee, maybe why there isn't a system that assures more student-athletes receive actual educations.

Then there is the incredulity that comes anytime the NCAA tries to legislate so-called morality.

This particular decision was handed down by the NCAA Executive Committee, which includes eight representatives from Division I-A schools. Of those eight schools, six have been found guilty of major NCAA infractions since 1989. Not the little stuff we are talking about big-time cheating. We repeat, six of the eight.

This is the NCAA leadership?

The group even includes John D. Welty, president of Fresno State, whose men's basketball program is on probation and under investigation for more recent major infractions and last year had a former player charged with murder. The Seminole tribal leaders have to listen to this guy? On the subject of supposedly doing what's right?

The NCAA, an organization run overwhelmingly by rich white guys, would be best-served trying to get its yard of squalor in order before trying to tell Native Americans it knows what's best for them.

I think that is how we got in this entire mess in the first place.


Dan Wetzel is Yahoo! Sports' national columnist. Send him a question or comment for potential use in a future column or webcast.

Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan
08-23-2005, 03:19 PM
All this says to me is Florida State has enough money to get what they want and the smaller schools (who lack appropriate bribe money) are stuck.

Chiefnj
08-23-2005, 03:24 PM
All this says to me is Florida State has enough money to get what they want and the smaller schools (who lack appropriate bribe money) are stuck.

Money controls college sports? No way, say it ain't so.

Mr. Laz
08-23-2005, 03:34 PM
All this says to me is Florida State has enough money to get what they want and the smaller schools (who lack appropriate bribe money) are stuck.

yep

Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan
08-23-2005, 03:35 PM
Money controls college sports? No way, say it ain't so.

I know, I'm such a cynic

Uatu
08-23-2005, 03:49 PM
Damn libs.

vailpass
08-23-2005, 03:50 PM
Whatever. Now get to work on figuring out a college football playoff system.

Saulbadguy
08-23-2005, 05:21 PM
Good job FSEwwww. Didn't bow down to the NCAA. I wonder if the Arkansas State Indians can afford to do the same thing.

SNR
08-23-2005, 06:53 PM
UND doesn't have the money, but they should be fine, as they have written consent from about 20 existing Sioux tribes that the name is just fine with them. If that's not good for the NCAA, then people WILL die. I need my Fighting Sioux Hockey, damn it! :cuss:

Frazod
08-23-2005, 07:02 PM
All this says to me is Florida State has enough money to get what they want and the smaller schools (who lack appropriate bribe money) are stuck.

The cynic in my says this is probably the case.

HOWEVER...

This is the first time I can remember these PC asshat c#cksucking douchebags getting reversed ON ANYTHING. Regardless of why, hey, it's a start.

:thumb:

The Red Death
08-23-2005, 07:04 PM
I haven't seen the NCAA's comprehensive list. Can someone tell me if Notre Dame's mascot is considered "hostile and abusive?" "Fighting Irish" portrays a much more negative stereotype than most Indian-based mascots.

Seriously though, I hope this witch hunt doesn't spill over to the NFL so we are forced to defend the local team.

Frazod
08-23-2005, 07:08 PM
I haven't seen the NCAA's comprehensive list. Can someone tell me if Notre Dame's mascot is considered "hostile and abusive?" "Fighting Irish" portrays a much more negative stereotype than most Indian-based mascots.

Seriously though, I hope this witch hunt doesn't spill over to the NFL so we are forced to defend the local team.

WHITE PEOPLE DON'T COUNT UNLESS THEY'RE GAY OR CRIPPLED.

Where the hell have you been?

morphius
08-23-2005, 07:12 PM
I haven't seen the NCAA's comprehensive list. Can someone tell me if Notre Dame's mascot is considered "hostile and abusive?" "Fighting Irish" portrays a much more negative stereotype than most Indian-based mascots.

Seriously though, I hope this witch hunt doesn't spill over to the NFL so we are forced to defend the local team.
We could always throw them off with dressing a mascot as an African American tribe Chief.

ENDelt260
08-23-2005, 07:33 PM
WHITE PEOPLE DON'T COUNT UNLESS THEY'RE GAY OR CRIPPLED.

Where the hell have you been?
Are they Irish really considered "white"? I mean, c'mon... the Irish?

WisChief
08-24-2005, 11:49 AM
I don't have a link - I received this in email.

Good read

NCAA Crackdown on Illiniwek is Bunch of Hooey
by Bill McClellan
St. Louis Dispatch
8/8/2005

The National Collegiate Athletic Association has announced a crackdown on colleges and universities that have nicknames or mascots connected to American Indians. Eighteen schools were cited. One of them was the University of Illinois, home of the Fighting Illini and mascot Chief Illiniwek.

Before discussing this further, let's put things in historical perspective. According to the Illinois Blue Book, published by the secretary of state's office, the first humans arrived in Illinois about 25,000 years ago. The Blue Book refers to them as Paleo-Indians. In the 17th century, a federation of tribes including the Cahokias, Kaskaskias, Mitchagamies, Peorias and Tamaroas met some French explorers. The confederation called itself the Illiniwek, which translates loosely into group of men, and the French referred to the people and the country as Illinois.

And Illinois it has remained.

So that brings up our first question. If it is politically incorrect to name a team after a Native American federation, is it right to name a state after the federation? Especially when the whole thing is a misunderstanding on the part of the French. None of the tribes were the Illini. Illiniwek was the name of the group of tribes. This is like naming the state Bunch of Tribes. Or, more simply, Bunch. As in, "I grew up in Chicago, Bunch."


Illinois is out. Definitely. Even if you're not offended by the French - and I know our neighbors across the river in Bunch are blue-staters and presumably pro-French - we ought to be sensitive enough to figure that if you can't name a football team after a federation of Native American tribes, you ought not to be able to name a state after the federation.

At the very least, let's give it its English name - Bunch. We could try to update it with something more reflective of its present reality. Daleyland has a nice ring. Corrupcio is nice. Moneytalks sounds good. But for now, let's go along with history - Bunch.

Now we can deal with the problem facing the University of Bunch. What should its new nickname be?

How about the Fighting Jews?

I suggest that only because Fighting Irish is already taken. You see, the NCAA is concerned only about the feelings of Native Americans. You can still use other ethnic groups for your nicknames and mascots. To a sensitive person, the Fighting Irish might be particularly bothersome, since you're dealing with an ethnic slur, a stereotype. The drunken Irish, always brawling. Actually, the Fighting Jews is a lot less offensive than the Fighting Irish because Jews are not known for being drunken brawlers.

But maybe the university ought to stay away from religion. I like the Fighting Iranians. We could have Ayatollah Khomeini as the mascot. Or the Shah. Or both.

Perhaps we should go another direction entirely. Maybe the NCAA will someday get around to other ethnic groups besides Native Americans. So we need a nickname that doesn't involve ethnic groups and has something to do with the state's heritage.

We could give a nod to the plaintiff's bar in Madison County. The court system there has become world famous. The Fighting Judicial Hellholes. Can't you just imagine the student section chanting: "We will sue! We will sue!" But what if reform comes to the legal system? That's unlikely, but possible.

On that score, the political system will never change, and that really is what the state is most famous for. Does any state have a more colorful history of corrupt politicians? Democrats, Republicans, black and white. I remember when Paul Powell died and there were shoeboxes full of cash in his closet. How does a secretary of state acquire shoeboxes full of cash? George Ryan probably knows. If you go by number of cronies indicted, he was probably the most corrupt secretary of state in Bunch history, and he went on to become governor. On the local level, think of East St. Louis.

So that should satisfy the NCAA - the Fighting Corrupt Pols of the University of Bunch. And a mascot will be never be a problem. It will always be the governor.

KCTitus
08-24-2005, 11:58 AM
This whole thing is so stupid...fuggin corporate bureaucrats run amok.

morphius
08-24-2005, 12:52 PM
WisChief - But what happens when a native american becomes the Gov.?

WisChief
08-24-2005, 01:07 PM
WisChief - But what happens when a native american becomes the Gov.?

Well, I think in the context of the NCAA and it's stunts, they would inform the state of Illi noise that he can't be the Gov. :D