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|Zach|
08-23-2005, 07:17 PM
Ran across this...just throwing more info out there.

Fetal pain challenged by scientific review
Researchers: Pain perception unlikely before third trimester

Tuesday, August 23, 2005; Posted: 7:05 p.m. EDT (23:05 GMT)


CHICAGO, Illinois (AP) -- A review of medical evidence has found that fetuses likely don't feel pain until the final months of pregnancy, a powerful challenge to abortion opponents who hope that discussions about fetal pain will make women think more about ending pregnancies.

The review by researchers at the University of California, San Francisco comes as advocates are pushing for fetal pain laws aimed at curtailing abortion. Proposed federal legislation would require doctors to provide fetal pain information to women seeking abortions when fetuses are at least 20 weeks old, and to offer women fetal anesthesia at that stage of the pregnancy. A handful of states have enacted similar measures.

But the report, appearing in Wednesday's Journal of the American Medical Association, says that offering fetal pain relief during abortions in the fifth or sixth months of pregnancy is misguided and might result in unacceptable health risks to women.

Dr. Nancy Chescheir, chairman of obstetrics and gynecology at Vanderbilt University and a board director at the Society of Maternal-Fetal Medicine, said the article "will help to develop some consensus" on when fetuses feel pain. "To date, there hasn't been any."
'Stuck their hands into a hornet's nest'

Critics angrily disputed the findings and claimed the report is biased.

"They have literally stuck their hands into a hornet's nest," said Dr. Kanwaljeet Anand, a fetal pain researcher at the University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences, who believes fetuses as young as 20 weeks old feel pain. "This is going to inflame a lot of scientists who are very, very concerned and are far more knowledgeable in this area than the authors appear to be. This is not the last word -- definitely not."

The researchers reviewed dozens of studies and medical reports and said the data indicate that fetuses likely are incapable of feeling pain until around the seventh month of pregnancy, when they are about 28 weeks old.

While brain structures involved in feeling pain begin forming much earlier, research indicates they likely do not function until the pregnancy's final stages, said the report's senior author, UCSF obstetric anesthesiologist Dr. Mark Rosen.

Based on the evidence, discussions of fetal pain for abortions performed before the end of the second trimester should not be mandatory, the researchers said.
Anesthesia during fetal surgery

The authors include the administrator of a UCSF abortion clinic, but the researchers dispute the claim that the report is biased.

Dr. Catherine DeAngelis, JAMA's editor-in-chief, said the decision to publish the review was not politically motivated.

"Oh, please," DeAngelis said. "If I had a political agenda, I wouldn't pick fetal pain."

JAMA does not publish "politically motivated science. We publish data-based, evidence-based science," DeAngelis said.

The measure pending in Congress would affect about 18,000 U.S. abortions a year performed in the fifth month of pregnancy or later, said Douglas Johnson, legislative director of the National Right to Life Committee. He said the review is slanted.

But Rosen said the researchers "tried to review the literature in an unbiased fashion. This was a multidisciplinary effort by experts on anesthesia, neuroanatomy, obstetrics and neonatal development."

Rosen also said that administering anesthesia or painkillers to the fetus could pose health risks to the mother.

When doctors operate on fetuses to correct defects before birth, general anesthesia is given to the mother primarily to immobilize the fetus and to make the uterus relax, Rosen said. Anesthesia during fetal surgery increases the mother's risks for breathing problems and bleeding from a relaxed uterus, the researchers said.

Rosen said those risks are medically acceptable when the goal is to save the fetus, but there's not enough evidence to show any benefit from fetus-directed anesthesia during an abortion.

Administering anesthesia directly to the fetus is also sometimes done but generally to reduce the release of potentially harmful fetal stress hormones, Rosen said. There is little research on its effects, the authors said.

Anand, the researcher from Arkansas, said the authors excluded or minimized evidence suggesting fetal pain sensation begins in the second trimester and wrongly assume that fetuses' brains sense pain in the same way as adult brains.

While Anand has testified as an expert witness for the government in court cases opposing some late-term abortions, he said he is not anti-abortion and that his views are based on years of fetal pain research.

Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/08/23/fetal.pain.ap/index.html?section=cnn_topstories

Logical
08-23-2005, 07:59 PM
Interesting, I think more research is warranted.

|Zach|
08-23-2005, 08:05 PM
Interesting, I think more research is warranted.
No doubt.

memyselfI
08-23-2005, 10:00 PM
Interesting, I think more research is warranted.

Why waste the money. As we all KNOW that the second sperm touches egg there is a person and like other people must feel pain. :p

Logical
08-23-2005, 10:08 PM
Why waste the money. As we all KNOW that the second sperm touches egg there is a person and like other people must feel pain. :p

:doh!: what on earth was I thinking.

go bowe
08-23-2005, 10:14 PM
i'm waiting for kotter or one of the boys to come and tell us how the journal of the american medical association is biased...

Taco John
08-23-2005, 10:44 PM
Either way, this is an uncomfortable topic.

WilliamTheIrish
08-23-2005, 11:02 PM
Either way, this is an uncomfortable topic.

No shit. A little too flippant.

A review of medical evidence has found that fetuses likely don't feel pain
A person paralyzed from the neck down wouldn't feel pain if I cut off his foot. (If he were alive). I doubt people would allow me to do it.

mlyonsd
08-24-2005, 09:48 AM
The pro-life groups are going about it all wrong. Trying to prove when a fetus feels pain isn't the route they should be taking. Like anyone that condones abortion really cares if the fetus feels pain? Get real.

What they need to start doing is try to measure brain activity in a fetus. IMO the argument of aborting a fetus with something going on in their noggin makes for a more compelling argument.

NewChief
08-24-2005, 10:06 AM
i'm waiting for kotter or one of the boys to come and tell us how the journal of the american medical association is biased...

You actually need someone to tell you that? Geeze. Everyone knows that JAMA is secretly funded by a liberal cabal consisting of Lesbians for Kerry, PETA, the CPUSA, and the ACLU.

Duh!

MOhillbilly
08-24-2005, 11:40 AM
The first thing i thought when i heard this on the news lastnight,was the soundbite i heard a month or so ago that said alot of "studies' are wrong.

vailpass
08-24-2005, 11:42 AM
No shit. A little too flippant.


A person paralyzed from the neck down wouldn't feel pain if I cut off his foot. (If he were alive). I doubt people would allow me to do it.

A LOT too flippant. My personal decision is pro-choice but I see absolutely no need to act like a ghoul about the subject.
If you know anyone who has ever made the choice to abort you know they suffer for their choice even though they know it was the right thing for them to do at the time.
A little respect and common decency would go a long way in bridging the gap between 80% of the people on both sides of this issue IMHO.

StcChief
08-24-2005, 12:05 PM
Too bad the parents of all the 'pro-abortion' folks didn't abort them.

Just to let them know how it feels to be unwanted.

MOhillbilly
08-24-2005, 12:09 PM
Too bad the parents of all the 'pro-abortion' folks didn't abort them.

Just to let them know how it feels to be unwanted.

haha you dont have to be aborted by your parents to feel unwanted.

vailpass
08-24-2005, 12:15 PM
haha you dont have to be aborted by your parents to feel unwanted.

Thats sad.

redbrian
08-24-2005, 12:40 PM
i'm waiting for kotter or one of the boys to come and tell us how the journal of the american medical association is biased...


http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/nation/12458255.htm

Looks like the Journal got caught not doing a proper review.

"The seven-page article does not mention that one author is an abortion clinic director, and that the lead author — a medical student — once worked for NARAL Pro-Choice America.

Catherine DeAngelis, the journal’s editor in chief, said she was unaware of this, and acknowledged that it might create an appearance of bias that could hurt the journal’s credibility."

Study of fetal pain fuels more debate

Medical, political implications at issue


CHICAGO — A review of medical evidence has found that fetuses likely don’t feel pain until the final months of pregnancy.

The findings were seen as a challenge to abortion opponents, who hope that discussions about fetal pain will make women think twice about ending pregnancies.

Critics angrily disputed the findings, and called the report biased.

“This is going to inflame a lot of scientists who are very, very concerned and are far more knowledgeable in this area than the authors appear to be,” said Kanwaljeet Anand, a fetal-pain researcher at the University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences, who thinks that fetuses as young as 20 weeks old feel pain. “This is not the last word — definitely not.”

The review by researchers at the University of California, San Francisco, comes as advocates are pushing for fetal-pain laws aimed at curtailing abortion.

Legislation proposed by Sen. Sam Brownback, a Kansas Republican, would require doctors to provide fetal-pain information to women seeking abortions when fetuses are at least 20 weeks old, and to offer women fetal anesthesia at that stage of the pregnancy. A handful of states have enacted similar measures.

The report, appearing today in the Journal of the American Medical Association, says that offering fetal-pain relief during abortions in the fifth or sixth months of pregnancy is misguided and might result in unacceptable health risks to women.

The seven-page article does not mention that one author is an abortion clinic director, and that the lead author — a medical student — once worked for NARAL Pro-Choice America.

Catherine DeAngelis, the journal’s editor in chief, said she was unaware of this, and acknowledged that it might create an appearance of bias that could hurt the journal’s credibility.

“This is the first I’ve heard about it,” she said. “We ask them to reveal any conflict of interest. I would have published” the disclosure if it had been made, she said.

Eleanor A. Drey, medical director of the abortion clinic at San Francisco General Hospital, said: “We thought it was critical to include an expert in abortion among the authors. I think my presence ... should not serve to politicize a scholarly report.”

The researchers reviewed dozens of studies and medical reports. They said that the data indicate that fetuses likely are incapable of feeling pain until around the seventh month of pregnancy, when they are about 28 weeks old.

While brain structures involved in feeling pain begin forming much earlier, research indicates that they likely do not function until the pregnancy’s final stages, said the report’s senior author, Mark Rosen, an obstetric anesthesiologist at the University of California, San Francisco.

MOhillbilly
08-24-2005, 01:07 PM
Thats sad.

can you blame them?

vailpass
08-24-2005, 01:24 PM
can you blame them?


ROFL Mamas don't let yer babies grow up to be Raiduhs.... ROFL

MOhillbilly
08-24-2005, 01:40 PM
ROFL Mamas don't let yer babies grow up to be Raiduhs.... ROFL

or..