PDA

View Full Version : Consistency??? and Support of Death


Logical
08-24-2005, 12:23 AM
I am very consistent, how do you fit on the consistency scale. This poll has multiple options available so vote all that apply to you.


I support a woman's right to abortion (though I would not be opposed to certain limits)

I support assisted suicide

I support a person's right to die

I support the death penalty

Killing in War is a neccessary evil

I am not afraid to die

I want to give credit to Bill Maher for the idea for this thread.

jAZ
08-24-2005, 12:30 AM
I'm pretty consistant.... with a slight contradiction.

No on the death penalty, given the irrevocability of the thing and the recent proven failure of the system.

Saggysack
08-24-2005, 03:43 AM
I voted for everything except "against death in all cases".

One thing I did have a second thought about voting for was, Am I afraid to die. No, I'm not afraid to die, just don't want it to happen...yet.

Simplex3
08-24-2005, 03:53 AM
Huh. Guess I'm pretty much pro-death. Whodathunkit?

You obviously have to have SOME restrictions on abortions. Otherwise you wind up with a 131st trimester abortion on some 32 year old guy.

Come to think of it that might not be so bad. Anybody got Jaz's mom's number?



;)

memyselfI
08-24-2005, 05:08 AM
I am very consistent, how do you fit on the consistency scale. This poll has multiple options available so vote all that apply to you.


I support a woman's right to abortion (though I would not be opposed to certain limits)

I support assisted suicide

I support a person's right to die

I support the death penalty

Killing in War is a neccessary evil

I am not afraid to die

I want to give credit to Bill Maher for the idea for this thread.

I think I could vote more comprehensively if each of the options had the disclaimer that the abortion option does. With out it, I can only vote the black and white options given.

Area 51
08-24-2005, 06:09 AM
A person's right to die is something that they should decide and death should be unassisted.

Amnorix
08-24-2005, 06:13 AM
I'm pretty consistant.... with a slight contradiction.

No on the death penalty, given the irrevocability of the thing and the recent proven failure of the system.

I'm tepidly in favor of the death penalty at this point. My preference would be to have the death penalty EXTENDED to certain other heinous crimes other than murder under certain circumstances BUT to have an even higher theshold than "beyond a reasonable doubt".

"Beyond a reasonable doubt" is, to be sure, a very high standard. But what I would propose is something like:

1. ordinary trial for guilty/innocence based on the usual standards.

2. meanwhile, however, the government can try to establish something like "beyond any doubt". That's the standard for the death penalty.

The proof would need to be basically absolutely concrete, with witnesses, physical evidence that is beyond the pale, etc. etc.

Basically, I'm not against the government executing heinous criminals, but I am a bit nervous about executing the WRONG person. I'd like to minimize that as much as possible.

Amnorix
08-24-2005, 06:15 AM
Oh yeah -- I'm afraid to die. I consider it a fairly basic human instinct, in fact.

Radar Chief
08-24-2005, 06:31 AM
Oh yeah -- I'm afraid to die. I consider it a fairly basic human instinct, in fact.

Itís been my experience that anyone tryín to tell ya theyíre not afraid to die is more than likely tryín to :BS: themselves into believing it.
Everyone is afraid to die, itís basic instinct and a majority of the drive to stay alive.
ďThe dead only know one thing, itís better to be alive.Ē Joker from FMJ, I know weak quote but it works.

Amnorix
08-24-2005, 06:52 AM
Itís been my experience that anyone tryín to tell ya theyíre not afraid to die is more than likely tryín to :BS: themselves into believing it.
Everyone is afraid to die, itís basic instinct and a majority of the drive to stay alive.
ďThe dead only know one thing, itís better to be alive.Ē Joker from FMJ, I know weak quote but it works.

Right. I mean, it's only the most basic instinct of all living creatures... Bravery, usually referring to when in combat or whatever, isn't about "not being afraid", it's about doing what you need to do "despite being afraid".

mlyonsd
08-24-2005, 06:58 AM
Right. I mean, it's only the most basic instinct of all living creatures... Bravery, usually referring to when in combat or whatever, isn't about "not being afraid", it's about doing what you need to do "despite being afraid".

Yup. I admit I'm afraid to croak. That comes from not knowing what's coming afterwards.

Which is why people that take organized religion to heart and believe it to the end have an advantage over the rest of us in this lifetime.

I don't know why Logical can't see that.

jiveturkey
08-24-2005, 07:23 AM
I'm tepidly in favor of the death penalty at this point. My preference would be to have the death penalty EXTENDED to certain other heinous crimes other than murder under certain circumstances BUT to have an even higher theshold than "beyond a reasonable doubt".

"Beyond a reasonable doubt" is, to be sure, a very high standard. But what I would propose is something like:

1. ordinary trial for guilty/innocence based on the usual standards.

2. meanwhile, however, the government can try to establish something like "beyond any doubt". That's the standard for the death penalty.

The proof would need to be basically absolutely concrete, with witnesses, physical evidence that is beyond the pale, etc. etc.

Basically, I'm not against the government executing heinous criminals, but I am a bit nervous about executing the WRONG person. I'd like to minimize that as much as possible.Agreed.

Area 51
08-24-2005, 08:08 AM
I'm tepidly in favor of the death penalty at this point. My preference would be to have the death penalty EXTENDED to certain other heinous crimes other than murder under certain circumstances BUT to have an even higher theshold than "beyond a reasonable doubt".

"Beyond a reasonable doubt" is, to be sure, a very high standard. But what I would propose is something like:

1. ordinary trial for guilty/innocence based on the usual standards.

2. meanwhile, however, the government can try to establish something like "beyond any doubt". That's the standard for the death penalty.

The proof would need to be basically absolutely concrete, with witnesses, physical evidence that is beyond the pale, etc. etc.

Basically, I'm not against the government executing heinous criminals, but I am a bit nervous about executing the WRONG person. I'd like to minimize that as much as possible.

With today's technology, DNA especially, the probability of the wrong person getting convicted has diminished tremendously. I think there might be more ways to minimize the chances for mistakes coming, but where do we end with "BIG BROTHER"?

jAZ
08-24-2005, 08:25 AM
I actually am not afraid to die. Does that mean I'm looking forward to it? No. Does that mean I'm deluding myself with thoughts of a utopian afterlife? No.

I just accept that it's a natural part of everything, and on a day to day basis, I do whatever I can to avoid dying.

It's just that the thought of my own death doesn't freak me out. The thought of the death of OTHERS in my life, freaks me out much more. It's hard to imagine my life without my wife.

(getting sick at the thought right now)

Amnorix
08-24-2005, 09:11 AM
With today's technology, DNA especially, the probability of the wrong person getting convicted has diminished tremendously. I think there might be more ways to minimize the chances for mistakes coming, but where do we end with "BIG BROTHER"?

I think you're assuming that most convictions involve use of DNA evidence, which is untrue unless you watch alot of CSI. :)

To me, big brother isn't a concern as long as you have the usual constitutional safeguards in place.

Besides, paraphrasing the Attorney General of the United States, Edwin Meese, "constitutional rights only protect the guilty." :shake: :banghead:

Area 51
08-24-2005, 09:24 AM
I think you're assuming that most convictions involve use of DNA evidence, which is untrue unless you watch alot of CSI. :)

To me, big brother isn't a concern as long as you have the usual constitutional safeguards in place.

Besides, paraphrasing the Attorney General of the United States, Edwin Meese, "constitutional rights only protect the guilty." :shake: :banghead:

My process of assumption was that newer cases have access to DNA that wasn't available in times past. There should be fewer cases of wrongful incarceration and the death penalty.

The big brother thing does bother some, I'd call the Patriot Act related to big brother. The amazing thing about the Patriot Act is that everything they called out in that act was already being done, it just became legal to an extent.

Big brother has always been here, we just didn't see it as much as we can now.

Logical
08-24-2005, 03:19 PM
Right. I mean, it's only the most basic instinct of all living creatures... Bravery, usually referring to when in combat or whatever, isn't about "not being afraid", it's about doing what you need to do "despite being afraid".

Not wanting to die and being afraid of dying are two entirely different things. I have no desire to die, but I do not fear the fact that I am going to die and probably within a few years.