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View Full Version : Should Bartee start over Wesley?


RedThat
08-24-2005, 09:36 AM
Do any of you think this would be the right move?

Too be honest, I watch Wesley play, and I'm quite disappointed. I think he's
the most overhyped, overrated safety to play in Kansas City. Im not impressed with his game at all. He doesnt HIT! Possibly that has to do with part of the reason he plays with no fire. Somebody needs to place fuel and light a flame under this guys a**, if Gun can't do it, he simply needs to be benched.

I just don't like the fact that he doesn't hit. Also, he misses too many tackles, and looks lost at times in coverage.

*We could use a new remedy at FS, perhaps Bartee?

tyton75
08-24-2005, 09:40 AM
What a difference a year and a position change can make!!

last year you would have been burned at the stake for offering that... now, you could be onto something..

jspchief
08-24-2005, 09:41 AM
I don't know if Bartee will be any better, but I'm willing to take a look at someone other than Wesley.

Chiefnj
08-24-2005, 09:41 AM
Wesley has looked pretty lost at times. It would hurt to start Bartee in game three and see how he does at FS.

RedThat
08-24-2005, 09:42 AM
What a difference a year and a position change can make!!

last year you would have been burned at the stake for offering that... now, you could be onto something..

I hear ya. Had I said this last year, I can imagine the reactions I would have received from others. I wouldn't be suprised if many asked "What are you smoking?"

*On the other hand, I probably wouldn't have said it anyway:D

htismaqe
08-24-2005, 09:47 AM
Wesley has looked pretty lost at times. It would hurt to start Bartee in game three and see how he does at FS.

I agree. I'm pretty disappointed in Wesley. And to think, Woods is WORSE and they together made up our starting backfield last year.

Dr. Facebook Fever
08-24-2005, 09:57 AM
Wesley should fear for not only his job but his spot on the roster imo. He hasn't made a hit since his rookie season... and he actually acted schocked that we signed another saftey in the off season. Nice way to respond to competition.

PRIEST
08-24-2005, 09:58 AM
With two preseason games left why not, Wesley was grest before he got his coin. :(

siberian khatru
08-24-2005, 10:12 AM
What a difference a year and a position change can make!!

last year you would have been burned at the stake for offering that... now, you could be onto something..


I know what you're saying, but many folks here have been saying for some time that Bartee should be switched to safety. They were more than willing to give him a shot there before dumping him. They just didn't want to see him at CB anymore.

I haven't watched him play in the preseason yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's shown himself to be at least a serviceable safety. I had completely given up on him ever being able to contribute at CB.

Now, embracing Parker's "not bad does not equal good" philosophy, serviceable may not be good enough to start, and the fact that serviceable is better than Woods or Wesley shouldn't make us confident that Bartee is really a solution back there.

jcl-kcfan2
08-24-2005, 10:19 AM
One thing you gotta remember, Gun drafted Bartee to switch him to corner.
Why, you may ask..
Because Gun thought Bartee had TOO MUCH ATHLETECISM to be just a safety.
Putting him back at his natural position should allow him to fully unleash his god-given athletic potential.
Plus, it's now ok for him to try to read the QB...

Soupnazi
08-24-2005, 10:21 AM
I'd say put the guy in there that is the fastest. I haven't seen anything that makes me think either one is a better hitter, but Wesley's speed is a major limitation to playing the position.

Rain Man
08-24-2005, 10:22 AM
I'm getting scared about this season. We've got too much craziness going on.

jspchief
08-24-2005, 10:29 AM
One thing you gotta remember, Gun drafted Bartee to switch him to corner.
Why, you may ask..
Because Gun thought Bartee had TOO MUCH ATHLETECISM to be just a safety.
Putting him back at his natural position should allow him to fully unleash his god-given athletic potential.
Plus, it's now ok for him to try to read the QB...How often do you see phrases like "too much athleticism" and "god-given athletic potential" when talking about William Bartee? :)

It's almost comical. I remember last year we were clamoring to get Bartee in for McCleon. As usual, Bartee sucked. I'm amazed at how many times us Chiefs fans will allow ourselves to be duped into wanting Bartee on the field.

Chiefnj
08-24-2005, 10:31 AM
Preseason game 3 starting lineup should be:

Hicks, Dalton, Sims, Allen

Johnson, Mitchell, Bell

Surtain, Sapp

Knight, Bartee

WisChief
08-24-2005, 10:32 AM
One thing you gotta remember, Gun drafted Bartee to switch him to corner.
Why, you may ask..
Because Gun thought Bartee had TOO MUCH ATHLETECISM to be just a safety.
Putting him back at his natural position should allow him to fully unleash his god-given athletic potential.
Plus, it's now ok for him to try to read the QB...

Maybe he is athletic and all of that, but he always looks lost and confused and dare I say, scared of being on the field. I don't know though - what could it hurt to give him a shot these last two games?

RedThat
08-24-2005, 10:55 AM
Maybe he is athletic and all of that, but he always looks lost and confused and dare I say, scared of being on the field. I don't know though - what could it hurt to give him a shot these last two games?

Exactly. They should start him for 2 pre-season games. Just to see how he plays at that position. I don't think it'll hurt the team.

Mr. Laz
08-24-2005, 10:58 AM
playing corner and safety are completely different positions


one is primarily with your back to the ball ... something bartee sucks at


one is facing the ball/quarterback ... bartee seems to be better at that


give him a shot


strong safety to free safety is also a significant change

strong safety is more linebacker, free safety is more coverage


i don't know why everyone thought that switching from SS to FS would be so easy for Wesley.

milkman
08-24-2005, 11:01 AM
playing corner and safety are completely different positions


one is primarily with your back to the ball ... something bartee sucks at


one is facing the ball/quarterback ... bartee seems to be better at that


give him a shot


strong safety to free safety is also a significant change

strong safety is more linebacker, free safety is more coverage


i don't know why everyone thought that switching from SS to FS would be so easy for Wesley.

OK, so a lot of people want to try Bartee as the FS, when he is the backup SS at this particular point in time.

Wouldn't he then just have the same transition issues, then?

Rain Man
08-24-2005, 11:01 AM
How often do you see phrases like "too much athleticism" and "god-given athletic potential" when talking about William Bartee? :)

It's almost comical. I remember last year we were clamoring to get Bartee in for McCleon. As usual, Bartee sucked. I'm amazed at how many times us Chiefs fans will allow ourselves to be duped into wanting Bartee on the field.

I think we need to trade Bartee while his stock is high.

RedThat
08-24-2005, 11:05 AM
Wesley should fear for not only his job but his spot on the roster imo. He hasn't made a hit since his rookie season... and he actually acted schocked that we signed another saftey in the off season. Nice way to respond to competition.

Signing Sammy Knight seems like a good move now for the Chiefs. A smart move. I can't imagine having Wesley and Woods as our safety tandem again. Those guys were horrible last year. And just to even think, signing Sammy Knight didn't sit well with him, amazes me. Wesley got a fat contract, and makes bold statements, like, "I'm not a backup safety", well then play like a starting safety Greg! You sure aint playing like a starting safety. Then the guy presents off-field problems. Getting charged for disorderly conduct is not a good idea Greg!

*Not only does the guy produce suckage on the field, he needs an adjustment in attitude, or else he should be gone. I agree with you beer me Wesley should definately fear his spot on the roster. All of this stuff with Wesley spells no good.

milkman
08-24-2005, 11:05 AM
I think we need to trade Bartee while his stock is high.

Yeah.
I bet the Eagles would be willing to part with Buckhalter!

Kyle401
08-24-2005, 11:09 AM
Wesley needs all the reps he can get in preseason to try to work out the switch from SS to FS. Putting Bartee in his place would leave us with 2 guys who sort of know how to play the position.

Willie Pile may be our best FS. :(

Mr. Laz
08-24-2005, 11:11 AM
OK, so a lot of people want to try Bartee as the FS, when he is the backup SS at this particular point in time.

Wouldn't he then just have the same transition issues, then?

personally i think Free safety is Bartee's natural position ... alwasy should of been.

i don't know why bartee is listed as a strong safety


he's a cornerback who plays better FACING the ball


that says free safety to me


the chiefs have screwed it up from day 1


they drafted him too high ... they switch him back to cornerback when oklahoma had "apparently" come to the conclusion that safety was a better spot.

and now "maybe" they are going too far and moving him to strong safety instead of free safety.

:banghead:


of course it could just be a listing mistake by the website ... i don't see how they could look at bartee and think strong safety. Maybe they want him to learn both? :shrug:

htismaqe
08-24-2005, 11:18 AM
Wesley needs all the reps he can get in preseason to try to work out the switch from SS to FS. Putting Bartee in his place would leave us with 2 guys who sort of know how to play the position.

Willie Pile may be our best FS. :(

Pile being our best FS might not be a bad thing.

RedThat
08-24-2005, 11:19 AM
playing corner and safety are completely different positions


one is primarily with your back to the ball ... something bartee sucks at


one is facing the ball/quarterback ... bartee seems to be better at that


give him a shot


strong safety to free safety is also a significant change

strong safety is more linebacker, free safety is more coverage


i don't know why everyone thought that switching from SS to FS would be so easy for Wesley.

I agree. Bartee seems to be better at facing the ball/quarterback. I say give him a shot too. It won't hurt us. Our secondary is solid, with Surtain, Warfield, and Knight. Starting Bartee won't make us worse, could potentially possibly make us better.

WisChief
08-24-2005, 11:19 AM
Pile being our best FS might not be a bad thing.

Has he even played this year? Have I completely missed him??

Mr. Laz
08-24-2005, 11:19 AM
Pile being our best FS might not be a bad thing.
we are running out of time to find out who are best FS is

htismaqe
08-24-2005, 11:21 AM
we are running out of time to find out who are best FS is

That is definitely true.

milkman
08-24-2005, 11:23 AM
personally i think Free safety is Bartee's natural position ... alwasy should of been.

i don't know why bartee is listed as a strong safety


he's a cornerback who plays better FACING the ball


that says free safety to me


the chiefs have screwed it up from day 1


they drafted him too high ... they switch him back to cornerback when oklahoma had "apparently" come to the conclusion that safety was a better spot.

and now "maybe" they are going too far and moving him to strong safety instead of free safety.

:banghead:


of course it could just be a listing mistake by the website ... i don't see how they could look at bartee and think strong safety. Maybe they want him to learn both? :shrug:

I thought Bartee played SS in the first PS game?

If the depth chart is correct, then the fact remains, you would be asking Bartee to switch from one position, that he just switched to.

I've never been as down on Bartee as most have, but I just think this would be more than his wee little mind could handle.

RedThat
08-24-2005, 11:24 AM
Folks,

at the very least, I think a lot of us around here don't expect Bartee to be a pro-bowler, but rather servicable. For him to be servicable, is good enough. We have 3 solid starters back there in Surtain, Warfield, and Knight. Even if Bartee is servicable, that'll help strengthen and solidfy our secondary big time.

*Wesley isn't even servicable imo

Mr. Laz
08-24-2005, 11:29 AM
I thought Bartee played SS in the first PS game?

If the depth chart is correct, then the fact remains, you would be asking Bartee to switch from one position, that he just switched to.

I've never been as down on Bartee as most have, but I just think this would be more than his wee little mind could handle.
you could be right ... if the chiefs were retarded enough to move Bartee from cornerback to STRONG safety then they might as well of just cut him.

they might be jacking around with him like they did Beisel


Defensive end to outside linbacker to middle linebacker to outside linebacker to utility linebacker. :shake:


bartee IS a free safety and always should of been

Claynus
08-24-2005, 11:29 AM
Do you guys really want to do this? Wesley is pretty good at nabbing interceptions. The thread is long gone, but in my "Top NFL safeties" post I made a few months back he was right up there with Knight in forcing turnovers.

RedThat
08-24-2005, 11:30 AM
you could be right ... if the chiefs were retarded enough to move Bartee from cornerback to STRONG safety then they might as well of just cut him.

they might be jacking around with him like they did Beisel


Defensive end to outside linbacker to middle linebacker to outside linebacker to utility linebacker. :shake:


bartee IS a free safety and always should of been

yep. Bartee should be FS.

milkman
08-24-2005, 11:38 AM
you could be right ... if the chiefs were retarded enough to move Bartee from cornerback to STRONG safety then they might as well of just cut him.

they might be jacking around with him like they did Beisel


Defensive end to outside linbacker to middle linebacker to outside linebacker to utility linebacker. :shake:


bartee IS a free safety and always should of been

Now, on that point, we agree!

As a matter of fact, I wouldn't be opposed to switching him now, but I also wouldn't expect anything from him, at least until he's had a chance to work at the position for some time.

milkman
08-24-2005, 11:51 AM
you could be right ... if the chiefs were retarded enough to move Bartee from cornerback to STRONG safety then they might as well of just cut him.

they might be jacking around with him like they did Beisel


Defensive end to outside linbacker to middle linebacker to outside linebacker to utility linebacker. :shake:

Actually, this is one of the things that has always bothered me about Gun.

He can field some pretty good Ds if the talent is already in place, although you can argue, and I have made the argument, that he is inconsistent.

But I also really question his ability at talent evaluation.

He's the guy that initially thought that Bartee was a corner.
Now he has moved him to SS, when a pretty strong case could be made that he's a natural FS.

Claynus
08-24-2005, 11:52 AM
Gunther also started Pat Dennis as a rookie.

RedThat
08-24-2005, 11:53 AM
Do you guys really want to do this? Wesley is pretty good at nabbing interceptions. The thread is long gone, but in my "Top NFL safeties" post I made a few months back he was right up there with Knight in forcing turnovers.

Yes. Wesley provides major suckage to this team. I don't care that he nabbed interceptions. Thats in the past. McCleon gets pick too, and he sucks. If you are going to judge his performance based on interceptions, and interceptions only, Im going to have to disagree with you. It's when people judge his performance based on picks, rather than overall performance, that makes him the most overrated safety in the NFL. His overall game sucks. He doesn't hit, and misses too many tackles. And the guy sucks at coverage. To even mention, his attitude needs an adjustment. All this outweighs his interceptions bigtime.

*Wesley should be either benched or gone

Claynus
08-24-2005, 11:55 AM
I'm not so sure Bartee is any better right now. Wait and see.

Mr. Laz
08-24-2005, 11:57 AM
Actually, this is one of the things that has always bothered me about Gun.

He can field some pretty good Ds if the talent is already in place, although you can argue, and I have made the argument, that he is inconsistent.

But I also really question his ability at talent evaluation.

He's the guy that initially thought that Bartee was a corner.
Now he has moved him to SS, when a pretty strong case could be made that he's a natural FS.
gunther is a likeable guy and highly motivated, but i wouldn't catagorized him as much more than average as a defensive coordinator.

milkman
08-24-2005, 12:01 PM
gunther is a likeable guy and highly motivated, but i wouldn't catagorized him as much more than average as a defensive coordinator.

That about sums it up.

Mike in SW-MO
08-24-2005, 12:06 PM
I think the Chiefs went into this whole thing with the idea that either Woods or Wesley would able to hold their own as free safety.

Bartee was given one last chance he could do something as a safety. Free safety looked good with two past starters (one a former probowler) competing at free and a bunch of scrubs to compete for back at strong. Plus Bartee has always been solid in run support from the corner spot but a liability as a cover corner.

So Bartee spends the whole off-season learned the strong safety position. So now Wesley has demonstrated why he became a "former" starter and Woods as been injured.It'll be very interesting to see how Woods does when he comes back and plays against Seattle this weekend.

htismaqe
08-24-2005, 12:35 PM
gunther is a likeable guy and highly motivated, but i wouldn't catagorized him as much more than average as a defensive coordinator.

Yup.

KCChiefsMan
08-24-2005, 12:40 PM
hmmmm, Bartee starting at safety. Bartee can at least tackle, he did get a pick in the 1st preseason game. With Wesley's poor performance on and off the field we could at least try it. Maybe if we start Bartee on Saturday night than it may at least spark a fire under Wesley's butt

WisChief
08-24-2005, 12:40 PM
It'll be very interesting to see how Woods does when he comes back and plays against Seattle this weekend.

He'll still stink. He's done nothing since his INT return for a TD at Green Bay.

Chiefnj
08-24-2005, 01:00 PM
gunther is a likeable guy and highly motivated, but i wouldn't catagorized him as much more than average as a defensive coordinator.

He fielded some of the best defenses between 95 and 98.

StcChief
08-24-2005, 01:43 PM
Give Bartee a shot in last two PS....

The Seahags aren't much at WR (they drop everything) but Lambs receivers, Bruce/Holt on road game at Eddy could challenge him. the way Martz throws it alot.

Claynus
08-24-2005, 01:56 PM
He fielded some of the best defenses between 95 and 98.

Yes, and some people will say it was all Derrick Thomas, but it wasn't. Gunther coordinated very good defenses in San Diego and Oakland.

I saw very little wrong with the scheme or the usage of players last year.

JakeT
08-24-2005, 02:13 PM
playing corner and safety are completely different positions


one is primarily with your back to the ball ... something bartee sucks at


one is facing the ball/quarterback ... bartee seems to be better at that


give him a shot


strong safety to free safety is also a significant change

strong safety is more linebacker, free safety is more coverage


i don't know why everyone thought that switching from SS to FS would be so easy for Wesley.

point one disagree & agree -- FS and corner are more the same then you may think depending on the scheme. For example in a cover 3 one corner slips back and fills the role of a 3rd deep safety. In a 'quarters' zone corner and safety shares the same role. I think in Knobinson scheme where there was a lot of zone Bartee played facing the ball quite a bit. Gun goes man to man more and your right Bartee can't play facing the receiver.

point 2 agree SS and FS are quite different. My guess is the Chiefs, based on all aspects of Bartee's play in the past, know he can't be a solid FS. Do you guys really want Patrick Surtain releasing his man (in a cover 2) to William Bartee as the last line of defense -- I wouldn't.

harpes
08-24-2005, 03:08 PM
NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!