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View Full Version : Who is the better diplomat: Rice or Powell?


patteeu
08-28-2005, 08:39 AM
Help settle a bet. Who is the better diplomat, Colin Powell or Condoleeza Rice? Please don't choose the person you personally like better, be objective.

Taco John
08-29-2005, 01:02 AM
I personally think Colin Powell is superior to Condoleeza Rice in about every conceivable way. Remember the point that Rush was trying to make about Mcnabb. I noticed that he doesn't try making that for Condi, despite the fact that it perfectly applies to her. She's very smart and way out of my league... hell, she's way out of Bush's league too... but she's no Colin Powell.

That being said, screw Colin Powell.

Amnorix
08-29-2005, 06:41 AM
I think none of us here has even the remotest chance of making any kind of accurate assessment of their relative abilities.

Taco John
08-29-2005, 02:10 PM
I think that's crazy. Their public performance speaks volumes about them.

Area 51
08-29-2005, 02:25 PM
I think none of us here has even the remotest chance of making any kind of accurate assessment of their relative abilities.

I hate to agree with you, but all things considered you are correct.

I say that because there isn't one sd on this bb that has an insight into what they do on a daily basis. Their only input is from the media, good - bad - or indifferent.

TJ is just primping for an argument.

Fishpicker
08-29-2005, 02:52 PM
powell is the better diplomat IMO. Rice is just a sychophant for her husb... er uhh friend (?) G.W. Bush

beavis
08-29-2005, 03:46 PM
I think none of us here has even the remotest chance of making any kind of accurate assessment of their relative abilities.
Amen.

Amnorix
08-29-2005, 03:56 PM
I think that's crazy. Their public performance speaks volumes about them.


So their public performance tell us which one has a better chance of convincing Pakistan to assist us in dealing with regional threats? How about working with the international community to containt he North Korea threat?

Which one has a better relationship with our most significant allies, such as England and Japan?

I have no fugging clue, and neither do you.

Rain Man
08-29-2005, 05:16 PM
I tend to agree with amnorix, but I voted for Powell for reasons that may or may not be correct. I tend to think that a man probably commands more respect from third-world despots than a woman (sorry, but it's true), and a military man will definitely get their attention more than a civilian woman.

That says nothing about their respective skills, and she may well be a better diplomat. I just think that she's starting from a less advantageous position.

Bowser
08-29-2005, 05:40 PM
Powell, when he is working with good intel.

Kraut
08-30-2005, 06:03 AM
Powell. Hands down!

patteeu
08-30-2005, 06:18 AM
Thanks for all the feedback. The current results are Powell 14; Rice 5; Both 2.

I also posted this question on two other forums, OrangeMane and TheologyWeb and the cummulative results are Powell 26; Rice 9; Both 2.

My brother and I were talking about 2008 presidential politics last weekend. He is a big Condi Rice fan and thinks she would be a good candidate for the Republicans. I'm a big fan too, but I think she lacks the necessary charisma to be a good presidential candidate (at least in the foreseeable future). When we disagreed about this, he went on to say that Rice would be able to draw votes from minorities who might not otherwise vote Republican. I said there were other people who would do a better job of that, e.g. Colin Powell. He disagreed. I challenged him to post a poll on an internet message board to test his theory. I suggested that he could choose the wording and choose the forum and Colin Powell would still win. Instead, he decided to have me post the poll, but he did choose the wording. Why he transformed the question from the original dispute into a question about diplomatic ability, I can't explain, but I was confident that Colin Powell would win anyway based on the fact that Republicans might split on the issue but most non-Republicans would tend to have more respect for Powell than Rice.

FWIW, I like Rice better than Powell and I tend to agree with Amnorix that it's hard to judge which one is the better diplomat. Rice seems to be more willing to take a hard position while Powell seems to be more of a compromiser. Both approaches are important at different times and I can't say which person is more likely to use the right one at the right time. Having said that, I think it's pretty clear that Powell would have more broadbased support as a presidential candidate than Rice would, even though I'd personally prefer Rice.

Taco John
08-30-2005, 09:55 AM
So their public performance tell us which one has a better chance of convincing Pakistan to assist us in dealing with regional threats? How about working with the international community to containt he North Korea threat?

Which one has a better relationship with our most significant allies, such as England and Japan?

I have no fugging clue, and neither do you.



You'd make a terrible hiring manager.

penchief
08-30-2005, 10:11 AM
I tend to agree with amnorix, but I voted for Powell for reasons that may or may not be correct. I tend to think that a man probably commands more respect from third-world despots than a woman (sorry, but it's true), and a military man will definitely get their attention more than a civilian woman.

That says nothing about their respective skills, and she may well be a better diplomat. I just think that she's starting from a less advantageous position.

And one of the least advantageous points being that she wholeheartedly advocated White House policies that were dubious, at best. Whereas, Powell made himself an outsider within the administration by speaking out when his conscience demanded it.

Integrity is a necessary quality to being an effective dimplomat, IMFO.

That is why I voted for Powell.

Area 51
08-30-2005, 12:38 PM
You'd make a terrible hiring manager.

You attack Amnorix like you are a government insider that has all of the answers. I'd like to know where you get all of your undisputable information!!! I don't always feel that Amnorix is on track, but this time he nailed it and I'm sure it torques your jaw!!

Face it BB you are no more informed as anyone else on this or any board.

Logical
08-30-2005, 01:08 PM
Thanks for all the feedback. The current results are Powell 14; Rice 5; Both 2.

I also posted this question on two other forums, OrangeMane and TheologyWeb and the cummulative results are Powell 26; Rice 9; Both 2.

My brother and I were talking about 2008 presidential politics last weekend. He is a big Condi Rice fan and thinks she would be a good candidate for the Republicans. I'm a big fan too, but I think she lacks the necessary charisma to be a good presidential candidate (at least in the foreseeable future). When we disagreed about this, he went on to say that Rice would be able to draw votes from minorities who might not otherwise vote Republican. I said there were other people who would do a better job of that, e.g. Colin Powell. He disagreed. I challenged him to post a poll on an internet message board to test his theory. I suggested that he could choose the wording and choose the forum and Colin Powell would still win. Instead, he decided to have me post the poll, but he did choose the wording. Why he transformed the question from the original dispute into a question about diplomatic ability, I can't explain, but I was confident that Colin Powell would win anyway based on the fact that Republicans might split on the issue but most non-Republicans would tend to have more respect for Powell than Rice.

FWIW, I like Rice better than Powell and I tend to agree with Amnorix that it's hard to judge which one is the better diplomat. Rice seems to be more willing to take a hard position while Powell seems to be more of a compromiser. Both approaches are important at different times and I can't say which person is more likely to use the right one at the right time. Having said that, I think it's pretty clear that Powell would have more broadbased support as a presidential candidate than Rice would, even though I'd personally prefer Rice.

Your brother made a mistake IMO, straight up question of who would more likely win for the Repbublicans in 2008 I would have voted for Condoleeza Rice.

go bowe
08-30-2005, 01:45 PM
don't some of the pundits say that powell's political career was pretty much ended because of the damned innacurate u.n. speech about wmd in iraq?

patteeu
08-30-2005, 01:45 PM
Your brother made a mistake IMO, straight up question of who would more likely win for the Repbublicans in 2008 I would have voted for Condoleeza Rice.

That would just be you being your contrarian self. I can understand an argument that Powell would have a hard time winning the Republican nomination (although I don't necessarily agree with it), but I think a straight up question of that type would still be a Powell landslide.

patteeu
08-30-2005, 01:47 PM
don't some of the pundits say that powell's political career was pretty much ended because of the damned innacurate u.n. speech about wmd in iraq?

I can see how it might have been hurt/ended, but anyone who would hold that against Powell isn't going to be any happier with Condi Rice who has been even more loyal to the Bush agenda.

go bowe
08-30-2005, 01:53 PM
and for some reason, i can't get the sound bytes out of mind of rice saying "no-one could have predicted that terrorists would take planes and fly them into buildings (paraphrasing)" when lots of people in the government and military had already learned of plans to do exactly that in several different instances...


either she was lying to protect the president or she was not a very competent national security advisor when she didn't even know about things that reporters could easily find out about later on?

things about terrorists...

national security...

just can't get over that one sound byte (or is it bite?)...

btw, i'd vote for powell unless the dems came up with a hitherto unknown candidate (which seems unlikely), more deserving of my vote...

i'd like to see a moderate (and reasonable) president get elected next time, regardless of party...

listopencil
08-30-2005, 03:38 PM
Your brother made a mistake IMO, straight up question of who would more likely win for the Repbublicans in 2008 I would have voted for Condoleeza Rice.


Really? I would be surprised if Rice could overcome her skin color as well as her gender in the eyes of those to whom it matters. I still think Powell is a reach just because I know what it's still like in some parts of our country. Sad but true.

listopencil
08-30-2005, 03:41 PM
BTW, Powell has said that he really isn't necessarily affiliated with any particular political party. The last time his name came up there was some mild confusion about which party he would represent.

Taco John
08-30-2005, 03:47 PM
You attack Amnorix like you are a government insider that has all of the answers. I'd like to know where you get all of your undisputable information!!! I don't always feel that Amnorix is on track, but this time he nailed it and I'm sure it torques your jaw!!

Face it BB you are no more informed as anyone else on this or any board.



Actually, I didn't attack him at all. I assessed the situation and made a judgement based on the information at hand. It's my opinion that he'd make a terrible hiring manager.

Area 51
08-30-2005, 03:52 PM
Actually, I didn't attack him at all. I assessed the situation and made a judgement based on the information at hand. It's my opinion that he'd make a terrible hiring manager.

You know the intent of the comment had nothing to do with the attack. You come off as someone that feels like your opinion of the situation is all knowing. You have no more idea of what goes on with the job that Powell had and Rice has than anyone else. You presume too many things to make your argument worthwhile.

If you say he would be a bad hiring manager with what he said it really makes you look silly, very silly.

Taco John
08-30-2005, 04:07 PM
I thought his comment was without merit. Which is why I think he'd make a bad hiring manager. In order to be a good hiring manager, you have to look for small cues about the person and make a decision on them. He's right that I don't know anything about the day to day job duties and how they perform them. So what? Who does? That's not relevant to the question posed in this thread. The question is, "who is the better diplomat." Well, based on the information that I have and my experience watching both people in action, it's my opinion that Colin Powell is the better diplomat.

As far as being able to make an accurate assessment of their relative abilities, I think it's ridiculous to say that it isn't possible. Which is why I made the judgement that he'd be a terrible hiring manager. If someone can't make an accurate assessment of these two very public individuals based on their recent performances, it's because they don't have any training in how to.

Eye Patch
08-30-2005, 04:24 PM
I think the bigger question is why a hiring manger would hire someone, who he works for, to run a full time Internet board and posts all day long propping up his opinion as undisputed fact.

Looks like the hiring manager who hired you was not very good eitherů.

Taco John
08-30-2005, 04:27 PM
I think the bigger question is why a hiring manger would hire someone, who he works for, to run a full time Internet board and posts all day long propping up his opinion as undisputed fact.

Looks like the hiring manager who hired you was not very good eitherů.


I'm special. I can do in one hour what people like you take four to do. And for what it's worth, my boss just put me in for a raise...

Eye Patch
08-30-2005, 04:36 PM
I'm special. I can do in one hour what people like you take four to do. And for what it's worth, my boss just put me in for a raise...

Good... can you leaf blow my lawn... It usually takes four hours but since you can do it in one it's all good.

I'll even throw in a tip... and the tip is... don't beat on the donks in a playoff game.

Taco John
08-30-2005, 04:40 PM
I'll even throw in a tip... and the tip is... don't beat on the donks in a playoff game.



And here's your change...

Don't bet on the Raiders to make it there.

Logical
08-30-2005, 06:00 PM
That would just be you being your contrarian self. I can understand an argument that Powell would have a hard time winning the Republican nomination (although I don't necessarily agree with it), but I think a straight up question of that type would still be a Powell landslide.The huge advanatage she would have being a woman and the first woman as a US Presidential candidate is not me being contrararian. It is me looking at the political landscape realizing she is a moderate female highly electable to the 52% of the electorate that are women.

go bowe
08-30-2005, 06:52 PM
moderate?

compared to who?

karl rove?

patteeu
08-30-2005, 07:50 PM
moderate?

compared to who?

karl rove?

ROFL

To be fair, she is probably moderate on some domestic issues. IIRC, she has something of a middle ground position on abortion. I think she is in favor of letting the states decide for themselves rather than making it illegal at the federal level or protecting it as a right.

Logical
08-30-2005, 09:17 PM
moderate?

compared to who?

karl rove?As Patteau got started, she tends to be a moderate on Social issues similar to my approach.

go bowe
08-30-2005, 09:24 PM
ok, i can buy that...

but she's not moderate enough for my preference...

i'm thinking it will be good fun and beneficial to watch as some of the moderates become truly national politicians (as opposed to being the national figures that they are now)...

i'm curious to see their positions on the various issues and how they conduct themselves in live interview or debate type situations...

my list right now would include arnold (yeah, i know), rudy, mccain, biden and *gasp* hillary (as she attempts to recast herself as a moderate, somehow)...

Logical
08-30-2005, 10:50 PM
ok, i can buy that...

but she's not moderate enough for my preference...

i'm thinking it will be good fun and beneficial to watch as some of the moderates become truly national politicians (as opposed to being the national figures that they are now)...

i'm curious to see their positions on the various issues and how they conduct themselves in live interview or debate type situations...

my list right now would include arnold (yeah, i know), rudy, mccain, biden and *gasp* hillary (as she attempts to recast herself as a moderate, somehow)...Don't tease me with Rudy that is like a political dream come true.

CHIEF4EVER
08-31-2005, 03:42 AM
ok, i can buy that...

but she's not moderate enough for my preference...

i'm thinking it will be good fun and beneficial to watch as some of the moderates become truly national politicians (as opposed to being the national figures that they are now)...

i'm curious to see their positions on the various issues and how they conduct themselves in live interview or debate type situations...

my list right now would include arnold (yeah, i know), rudy, mccain, biden and *gasp* hillary (as she attempts to recast herself as a moderate, somehow)...


Hillary?????? That's like hoping Nero gets elected as NYC Fire Chief.

Area 51
08-31-2005, 06:04 AM
I thought his comment was without merit. Which is why I think he'd make a bad hiring manager. In order to be a good hiring manager, you have to look for small cues about the person and make a decision on them. He's right that I don't know anything about the day to day job duties and how they perform them. So what? Who does? That's not relevant to the question posed in this thread. The question is, "who is the better diplomat." Well, based on the information that I have and my experience watching both people in action, it's my opinion that Colin Powell is the better diplomat.

As far as being able to make an accurate assessment of their relative abilities, I think it's ridiculous to say that it isn't possible. Which is why I made the judgement that he'd be a terrible hiring manager. If someone can't make an accurate assessment of these two very public individuals based on their recent performances, it's because they don't have any training in how to.

I'd say that you are very full of yourself.

To have an accurate accounting of what makes these people tick you need to talk to them one on one and ask the questions that will bring out their innermost beliefs.

I think you are attributing their "likeability" with their professional attitude. I really like Powell, but he wasn't the leader everyone gave him credit for;his disagreement with the president neither makes him a standout nor does it make him loyal to the guy that hired him. Rice is a trooper, she follows commands and structure of the office that she holds; she would draw the line at breaking the law.

None of the above tells you about the person, it only comments on their activities IN THE PUBLIC LIGHT. They both could be ax murderers.

Eye Patch
08-31-2005, 08:31 AM
And here's your change...

Don't bet on the Raiders to make it there.

No my betting style is to find a dumb ass donk homer who will "pay" me $200.00 not to post on your board for 6 months.

I still laugh at that one... talk about easy money.

Taco John
08-31-2005, 10:00 AM
No my betting style is to find a dumb ass donk homer who will "pay" me $200.00 not to post on your board for 6 months.

I still laugh at that one... talk about easy money.



That's awesome, because I'm geting a $200.00 value for free!

Taco John
08-31-2005, 10:01 AM
I'd say that you are very full of yourself.

To have an accurate accounting of what makes these people tick you need to talk to them one on one and ask the questions that will bring out their innermost beliefs.

I think you are attributing their "likeability" with their professional attitude. I really like Powell, but he wasn't the leader everyone gave him credit for;his disagreement with the president neither makes him a standout nor does it make him loyal to the guy that hired him. Rice is a trooper, she follows commands and structure of the office that she holds; she would draw the line at breaking the law.

None of the above tells you about the person, it only comments on their activities IN THE PUBLIC LIGHT. They both could be ax murderers.


You'd make a terrible hiring manager.

Neither are ax murderers. I guarantee it.

Eye Patch
08-31-2005, 10:14 AM
That's awesome, because I'm geting a $200.00 value for free!

You're welcome...

Area 51
08-31-2005, 10:28 AM
You'd make a terrible hiring manager.

Neither are ax murderers. I guarantee it.

Would I? Should I change jobs?

Taco John
08-31-2005, 01:01 PM
Would I? Should I change jobs?


ROFL