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Skip Towne
08-30-2005, 01:42 PM
A Tulsa radio station reported today that the retail price rose by 13 cents yesterday while the wholesale price declined 3 cents. I'd like to hear an explanation of that.

foxman
08-30-2005, 01:46 PM
My General Manager was told today that tomarrow gas will go up .24 here. Of course this station is a bit high, but I doubt they raise it more than everyone else. That would make regular unleaded $2.70

StcChief
08-30-2005, 01:48 PM
Retail is suggested by distributor (or so I've been told)

wholesale is what they distributor pays.

Saulbadguy
08-30-2005, 01:49 PM
Donger will be here to explain why we aren't getting screwed.

Dr. Facebook Fever
08-30-2005, 01:50 PM
We heard here yesterday that gas was going over $3 by the end of the week.

gblowfish
08-30-2005, 01:52 PM
Regular unleaded went from $2.51 on Sunday to $2.79 at the Quik Trip down the block from me today. That's .28 in 48 hours. I can't believe they've burned through their in-station stock in 48 hours to justify such an increase. Premium Unleaded was $2.99.

Can you say Halliburton?

Donger
08-30-2005, 01:53 PM
Donger will be here to explain why we aren't getting screwed.

Heh.

It's pretty simple really. All of the retailers buy at pretty much the same price, and determine their own retail pricing. Whether or not they drop their price after the wholesale price drops is more or less up to them, generally caused by competition from other stations near them.

As to not getting screwed, we are. We've screwed ourselves.

Skip Towne
08-30-2005, 01:53 PM
If the natural gas sellers raised prices like this they would get slapped down by the FCC. Gasoline is just as necessary to people as natural gas so why isn't it regulated?

Dr. Facebook Fever
08-30-2005, 01:54 PM
Can you say Halliburton?
That can't be it. The administration in Washington would never do anything that wasn't in America's very, very, very best interests.

Donger
08-30-2005, 01:54 PM
Can you say Halliburton?

Sure. What do they have to do with the retail price of gasoline?

Dr. Facebook Fever
08-30-2005, 01:55 PM
Donger will be here to explain why we aren't getting screwed.
nice call...

memyselfI
08-30-2005, 01:56 PM
Gas on 87th and Antioch QT $2.86
Gas on 95th and Antioch 7/11 $2.65

at least when I drove by around 1:30.

Donger
08-30-2005, 01:56 PM
nice call...

All I can do is try.

Donger
08-30-2005, 01:59 PM
If the natural gas sellers raised prices like this they would get slapped down by the FCC. Gasoline is just as necessary to people as natural gas so why isn't it regulated?

Here's a good read for you: http://csmonitor.com/2005/0829/p01s01-usec.html

Saulbadguy
08-30-2005, 02:00 PM
Heh.

It's pretty simple really. All of the retailers buy at pretty much the same price, and determine their own retail pricing. Whether or not they drop their price after the wholesale price drops is more or less up to them, generally caused by competition from other stations near them.

As to not getting screwed, we are. We've screwed ourselves.
What about the gas already in their tanks? They bought that at a lower wholesale price, yet they raise the price of it.

KC Dan
08-30-2005, 02:00 PM
What about the gas already in their tanks? They bought that at a lower wholesale price, yet they raise the price of it.
Capitalism, if you don't like it; don't buy it and the price drops....

Saulbadguy
08-30-2005, 02:01 PM
Donger-

Do you think the govt will release crude from the SPR in order to relieve some of the pressure?

Goapics1
08-30-2005, 02:02 PM
Donger will be here to explain why we aren't getting screwed.
No shit. I think he works for these fuggin oil companies or he is amish.

Calcountry
08-30-2005, 02:03 PM
Heh.

It's pretty simple really. All of the retailers buy at pretty much the same price, and determine their own retail pricing. Whether or not they drop their price after the wholesale price drops is more or less up to them, generally caused by competition from other stations near them.

As to not getting screwed, we are. We've screwed ourselves.How do you like that Denali now?

Sam
08-30-2005, 02:03 PM
$28.00 for 10 gallons of fuel. Christ!

Calcountry
08-30-2005, 02:03 PM
If the natural gas sellers raised prices like this they would get slapped down by the FCC. Gasoline is just as necessary to people as natural gas so why isn't it regulated?Food is necessary, why don't they make them sell steak for half as much dammit. I have to have my Porterhouse.

Saulbadguy
08-30-2005, 02:04 PM
No shit. I think he works for these fuggin oil companies or he is amish.
What he says tends to be accurate. At least IMO. I believe we set ourselves up for these high prices.

Even $3.00 isn't as much as the $1.50 in the 80's, adjusted for inflation.

Calcountry
08-30-2005, 02:04 PM
$28.00 for 10 gallons of fuel. Christ!He has nothing to do with this.

Saulbadguy
08-30-2005, 02:04 PM
If the natural gas sellers raised prices like this they would get slapped down by the FCC. Gasoline is just as necessary to people as natural gas so why isn't it regulated?
Natural gas will raise up to %20 come winter time.

Donger
08-30-2005, 02:04 PM
What about the gas already in their tanks? They bought that at a lower wholesale price, yet they raise the price of it.

Basically this: if demand rises quickly or supply declines unexpectedly due to refinery production problems or lagging imports, gasoline inventories (stocks) may decline rapidly. When stocks are low and falling, some wholesalers become concerned that supplies may not be adequate over the short term and bid higher for available product.

So, why it's true that they SHOULD be selling that already bought gasoline a few cents above what they paid for it, they are anticipating paying vastly more based on the above.

Goapics1
08-30-2005, 02:05 PM
What he says tends to be accurate. At least IMO. I believe we set ourselves up for these high prices.

Even $3.00 isn't as much as the $1.50 in the 80's, adjusted for inflation.
I know. I just wish we could get back to $1.50/gallon.

Donger
08-30-2005, 02:06 PM
Donger-

Do you think the govt will release crude from the SPR in order to relieve some of the pressure?

Yes. I'd imagine a rather large loan within a week or two. Mind you, the SPR is where? Yep, LA and TX.

Saulbadguy
08-30-2005, 02:07 PM
Basically this: if demand rises quickly or supply declines unexpectedly due to refinery production problems or lagging imports, gasoline inventories (stocks) may decline rapidly. When stocks are low and falling, some wholesalers become concerned that supplies may not be adequate over the short term and bid higher for available product.

So, why it's true that they SHOULD be selling that already bought gasoline a few cents above what they paid for it, they are anticipating paying vastly more based on the above.
FWIW, i've seen a couple of stations here (Topeka) OUT of gas. :shake:

Donger
08-30-2005, 02:07 PM
No shit. I think he works for these fuggin oil companies or he is amish.

No, not even close. But, I used to work in an ancillary industry.

Calcountry
08-30-2005, 02:12 PM
What about the gas already in their tanks? They bought that at a lower wholesale price, yet they raise the price of it.They must have enough cash flow from their existing inventories in order to replace it.

This is called the "ratcheting effect" and it is true of almost all commodities. Prices go up immediately and are passed along immediately to all levels within a channel of distribution, conversely, they will not pass along savings as quickly as they do increases.

If you ever have a business where you must replace inventory, you will understand.

A few years ago, a competitor closed, and I had an increase of business of almost 40%. I actually had to borrow money to pay for the "new" stock I was forced to carry to keep up with demand. I actually went in the hole the first few months.

Hope that helps.

They should all just be good public servants and lose money, go out of business, and decrease the total choices available to consumers?

Saulbadguy
08-30-2005, 02:13 PM
Hope that helps.

They should all just be good public servants and lose money, go out of business, and decrease the total choices available to consumers?
It most certainly does. Thank you.

No, I just didn't understand how it worked. Asshole. :p

Calcountry
08-30-2005, 02:14 PM
I know. I just wish we could get back to $1.50/gallon.I wish we could go back to 25 cent comic books, and $4.00/ hour minimum wage too.

KingPriest2
08-30-2005, 02:14 PM
I know. I just wish we could get back to $1.50/gallon.


How sad that we have to say this now. I remember when we thought this was high.

Donger
08-30-2005, 02:14 PM
I know. I just wish we could get back to $1.50/gallon.

IMO, that will never happen again.

Brace yourself folks: WHOLESALE gas is trading at $3.00 a gallon on the gulf coast right now. You can do the math. Don't be surprised to see a national average of over $3.15 within a short time.

I think the best we can hope for is a loan from the SPR and Labor Day coming up.

Of course, drastically reducing demand, increasing refining capacity and a few other things would be nice.

Calcountry
08-30-2005, 02:15 PM
It most certainly does. Thank you.

No, I just didn't understand how it worked. Asshole. :pMy wife calls me that alot, perhaps there might be some truth to it? ::p BTW, you are welcome. ;)

Calcountry
08-30-2005, 02:16 PM
IMO, that will never happen again.

Brace yourself folks: WHOLESALE gas is trading at $3.00 a gallon on the gulf coast right now. You can do the math. Don't be surprised to see a national average of over $3.15 within a short time.

I think the best we can hope for is a loan from the SPR and Labor Day coming up.

Of course, drastically reducing demand, increasing refining capacity and a few other things would be nice.How about them employee discounts on Denali's at GM? Not a penny more for them than their employees pay.

Donger
08-30-2005, 02:18 PM
How about them employee discounts on Denali's at GM? Not a penny more for them than their employees pay.

Like I said, reduce demand.

I filled up my car on Saturday, expecting this increase. Of course, my car gets 32 mpg. There was a woman next to me bitching about the $$$ she just paid to fill up her Expedition. I just shook my head.

GoTrav
08-30-2005, 02:20 PM
where is Clay Chastain when we need him now?!@!@

Calcountry
08-30-2005, 02:20 PM
The gas price itself, is just the beginning. Diesel has been selling at about 20 c per gallon higher than gas, and all goods are delivered by diesel powered trucks.

The next shoe to drop is when retailers are forced to pass these fuel surcharges on to their customers.

Wal Mart has already warned that their bottom line won't be so rosy due to this. How many Wal mart trucks do you see on the road. Always low prices will be squeezed on the cost side of their operation.

Saulbadguy
08-30-2005, 02:21 PM
Check out this thread. We are bitching about $1.99 a gallon.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=111235

Calcountry
08-30-2005, 02:21 PM
Like I said, reduce demand.

I filled up my car on Saturday, expecting this increase. Of course, my car gets 32 mpg. There was a woman next to me bitching about the $$$ she just paid to fill up her Expedition. I just shook my head.They will declare bankruptcy and not be able to figure out where all the money went.

Saulbadguy
08-30-2005, 02:22 PM
Like I said, reduce demand.

I filled up my car on Saturday, expecting this increase. Of course, my car gets 32 mpg. There was a woman next to me bitching about the $$$ she just paid to fill up her Expedition. I just shook my head.
Yes.

As a country, we've become very complacent. People are realizing owning their dream homes out in the country may not be an option any longer. Owning a 12 MPG grocery getter is no longer economical.

Calcountry
08-30-2005, 02:23 PM
Like I said, reduce demand.

I filled up my car on Saturday, expecting this increase. Of course, my car gets 32 mpg. There was a woman next to me bitching about the $$$ she just paid to fill up her Expedition. I just shook my head.Since we cannot increase supply, by drilling in the Arctic, yeah, pretty much, thats the only choice we have.

Area 51
08-30-2005, 02:23 PM
I've started seeing the big pickups and SUV's showing up in front yards with For Sale signs on them.

Fuel effeciency is getting a little more important.

Anyone heard any thing about the Hydrogen Cell technology lately?

Bob Dole
08-30-2005, 02:24 PM
I can't believe they've burned through their in-station stock in 48 hours to justify such an increase.

Unless the market has changed significantly in the past decade, you can believe it with some of the QT locations. Bob Dole managed a number of stores that pumped sufficient volume to require daily fuel deliveries.

Calcountry
08-30-2005, 02:24 PM
Yes.

As a country, we've become very complacent. People are realizing owning their dream homes out in the country may not be an option any longer. Owning a 12 MPG grocery getter is no longer economical.For the middle class, yes.

What I feel is going on is a conspiracy by the rich elite, they are tired of all the traffic on the roads getting in the way of their Hummers and limos.

Donger
08-30-2005, 02:26 PM
Since we cannot increase supply, by drilling in the Arctic, yeah, pretty much, thats the only choice we have.

Even if we do increase supply, cars don't run very well on crude. We need more refineries and we needed them twenty years ago.

ROYC75
08-30-2005, 02:27 PM
I know. I just wish we could get back to $1.50/gallon.


Well that isn't going to happen ......

When gas was $1.00 a gallon, I was wishing it would get back to $ 0.169 ....I'm still wishing .........

Goapics1
08-30-2005, 02:28 PM
I wish we could go back to 25 cent comic books, and $4.00/ hour minimum wage too.
U R A Dick.

Goapics1
08-30-2005, 02:29 PM
IMO, that will never happen again.

Brace yourself folks: WHOLESALE gas is trading at $3.00 a gallon on the gulf coast right now. You can do the math. Don't be surprised to see a national average of over $3.15 within a short time.

I think the best we can hope for is a loan from the SPR and Labor Day coming up.

Of course, drastically reducing demand, increasing refining capacity and a few other things would be nice.
Thanks Donger. I'm glad you're not a dick like bunnypumper.

shakesthecat
08-30-2005, 02:33 PM
For the middle class, yes.

What I feel is going on is a conspiracy by the rich elite, they are tired of all the traffic on the roads getting in the way of their Hummers and limos.


Damn.....bunny's on to us. :banghead:

ROYC75
08-30-2005, 02:34 PM
Even if we do increase supply, cars don't run very well on crude. We need more refineries and we needed them twenty years ago.


Other than making all the bigger refineries more profitable, why was all the refineries cut back several years ago.

I remember seeing something in the paper awhile back ago about the Ark. City refinery. Even some around KC shut down.....How come ?

Donger
08-30-2005, 02:37 PM
Other than making all the bigger refineries more profitable, why was all the refineries cut back several years ago.

I remember seeing something in the paper awhile back ago about the Ark. City refinery. Even some around KC shut down.....How come ?

The oil companies learned that they could make the refining process considerably more efficient right around 1980, IIRC. Therefore, they could operate fewer facilities and still meet demand.

They've not built new capacity for three main reasons: they aren't readily profitable, tremendous red-tape and where to build them.

Saulbadguy
08-30-2005, 02:44 PM
Since we cannot increase supply, by drilling in the Arctic, yeah, pretty much, thats the only choice we have.
Drilling in the artic won't increase supply all that much. Estimated 250-600 mil barrels per year IIRC.

Donger
08-30-2005, 02:49 PM
Drilling in the artic won't increase supply all that much. Estimated 250-600 mil barrels per year IIRC.

ANWR probably contains 16 billion barrels. That's the equivalent of 30 years of Saudi crude.

Calcountry
08-30-2005, 02:52 PM
Even if we do increase supply, cars don't run very well on crude. We need more refineries and we needed them twenty years ago.I agree 100 %. There is a whole lot that goes on, besides just getting the oil on the ground, in order to deliver a gallon of gasoline, on demand, to wherever and whenever any motorist should want it.

Calcountry
08-30-2005, 02:54 PM
U R A Dick.No, I have a big dick.

cdcox
08-30-2005, 02:54 PM
FWIW, my wife just overheard a rumor that gasoline will be rationed here in Knoxville soon. I'm not convinced, but nevertheless I'm hedging my bets am going to fill up now.

Saulbadguy
08-30-2005, 02:59 PM
ANWR probably contains 16 billion barrels. That's the equivalent of 30 years of Saudi crude.
Which we get %9 of our oil from.

Calcountry
08-30-2005, 03:03 PM
Which we get %9 of our oil from.What if they cut that 9 % off from us?

Wouldn't it be nice to have some more proven strategic Anwar petroleum reserves that we could tap into in times like these?

Saulbadguy
08-30-2005, 03:04 PM
What if they cut that 9 % off from us?

Wouldn't it be nice to have some more proven strategic Anwar petroleum reserves that we could tap into in times like these?
Yes, but the intial costs of drilling, refining, etc etc would be too great to overcome, IMO. It wouldn't be worth it.

Its going to take alot to reduce demand. Thats what is needed.

Mr. Laz
08-30-2005, 03:06 PM
Wouldn't it be nice to have some more proven strategic Anwar petroleum reserves that we could tap into in times like these?
except for the fact that it's refining the oil that's the issue right now, not the oil itself


rightwing retard





just said on the tv that 3.00 is prolly going to be the national average before long.

Calcountry
08-30-2005, 03:06 PM
Yes, but the intial costs of drilling, refining, etc etc would be too great to overcome, IMO. It wouldn't be worth it.

Its going to take alot to reduce demand. Thats what is needed.I think we need both, not one or the other.

Don't look at me, I bought a very efficient Honda Accord that got over 30MPG on the highway on my last vacation. I drove to San Diego and back on 3.5 tanks of gas.

Calcountry
08-30-2005, 03:07 PM
except for the fact that it's refining the oil that's the issue right now, not the oil itself


rightwing retard





just said on the tv that 3.00 is prolly going to be the national average before long.Left wing dip shit.

KC Dan
08-30-2005, 03:08 PM
except for the fact that it's refining the oil that's the issue right now, not the oil itself

rightwing retard

just said on the tv that 3.00 is prolly going to be the national average before long.You are correct that more refining is what is needed but the enviro groups have sufficiently added enough red tape to prevent more capacity from being built. But, as a thoughtful person will surely say, it doesn't hurt the oil companies financially from not building more refineries. ie. both sides are responsible for the crunch

Donger
08-30-2005, 03:10 PM
Which we get %9 of our oil from.

Right around there, yes. In other words, it's massive and it's ours.

Calcountry
08-30-2005, 03:10 PM
You are correct that more refining is what is needed but the enviro groups have sufficiently added enough red tape to prevent more capacity from being built. But, as a thoughtful person will surely say, it doesn't hurt the oil companies financially from not building more refineries.Then the left wing should be happy with these high prices? They first wanted a BTU tax under Clinton, and now that that hasn't been passed, they bind the companies with red tape, thus enacting the same effect of higher inhibitive prices? Am I missing something here?

Left wingers are never happy.

They always have something to bitch about.

Donger
08-30-2005, 03:16 PM
except for the fact that it's refining the oil that's the issue right now, not the oil itself


rightwing retard





just said on the tv that 3.00 is prolly going to be the national average before long.

Think of it this was: we could tell the Saudis, "No thanks!" and stop importing their crude. We would then have a 10% capacity drop at our refineries, quickly filled back up with crude from ANWR.

Doesn't solve the refinery bottleneck, but it would be fun to watch.

Saulbadguy
08-30-2005, 03:17 PM
Think of it this was: we could tell the Saudis, "No thanks!" and stop importing their crude. We would then have a 10% capacity drop at our refineries, quickly filled back up with crude from ANWR.

Doesn't solve the refinery bottleneck, but it would be fun to watch.
Can the government somehow subsidize the refineries? Cut out $$$ from something else. How much money are we talking here?

Calcountry
08-30-2005, 03:18 PM
Think of it this was: we could tell the Saudis, "No thanks!" and stop importing their crude. We would then have a 10% capacity drop at our refineries, quickly filled back up with crude from ANWR.

Doesn't solve the refinery bottleneck, but it would be fun to watch.Especially in a war against Islamo fascists.

Calcountry
08-30-2005, 03:19 PM
Can the government somehow subsidize the refineries? Cut out $$$ from something else. How much money are we talking here?Yes, they can simply cut the red tape in place that inhibits new refineries. At $3.00 a gallon, companies like Valero, VLO on the NYSE, have a lot of green reasons to build more capacity.

Donger
08-30-2005, 03:20 PM
Can the government somehow subsidize the refineries? Cut out $$$ from something else. How much money are we talking here?

That was part of Bush's energy bill that just passed, IIRC.

Saulbadguy
08-30-2005, 03:21 PM
That was part of Bush's energy bill that just passed, IIRC.
What it entail? Will it work? How long will it take?

Donger
08-30-2005, 03:24 PM
What it entail? Will it work? How long will it take?

It was pretty far reaching. Here: http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/energy/

Will it work? Not immediately. We're talking years before anything gets built, I'd guess.

Mr. Laz
08-30-2005, 03:31 PM
You are correct that more refining is what is needed but the enviro groups have sufficiently added enough red tape to prevent more capacity from being built. But, as a thoughtful person will surely say, it doesn't hurt the oil companies financially from not building more refineries. ie. both sides are responsible for the crunch
yep,yep and yep


best way to solve the problem AND much of the terrorism problem is to find a alternative fuel.


then we can cure both issues

Skip Towne
08-30-2005, 03:35 PM
No, I am a big dick. We know.

Biohazard
08-30-2005, 03:45 PM
If the natural gas sellers raised prices like this they would get slapped down by the FCC. Gasoline is just as necessary to people as natural gas so why isn't it regulated?
Heard on the local radio this morning that in a city by me the price of natural gas was going to take an 80% hike in price from now to winter due to increased oil price! City board passed some kinda vote. Time to get out the chainsaw!!!!

Calcountry
08-30-2005, 03:47 PM
yep,yep and yep


best way to solve the problem AND much of the terrorism problem is to find a alternative fuel.


then we can cure both issuesAgreed, what alternative fuel do you propose?

Calcountry
08-30-2005, 03:50 PM
We now.

Wow, that took brilliance Clevis.

Mr. Laz
08-30-2005, 03:54 PM
Agreed, what alternative fuel do you propose?
hydrogen looks like it's closest... they have several working prototype up and running right now.


i think the hydrogen/electric hybrid looks like the best at this point.


works on a regular/current body car type, uses very little actual water and has pass all the safety/performance test so far.


IIRC it was 4 ounces of water for a trip from Cali to NY

memyselfI
08-30-2005, 03:59 PM
Don't know if anyone has posted this but it seems to work.

Gas Price Finder (http://autos.msn.com/everyday/gasstations.aspx?zip=&src=Netx)

Calcountry
08-30-2005, 04:01 PM
hydrogen looks like it's closest... they have several working prototype up and running right now.


i think the hydrogen/electric hybrid looks like the best at this point.


works on a regular/current body car type, uses very little actual water and has pass all the safety/performance test so far.I am all for it, as long as its economically viable. I.E. if it costs 4 dollars for a gallon of Hydrogen fuel, and gas is still 3 dollars per gallon, then we stay with gas.

The point I am making is that we won't see 1.5 a gallon fuel again, it just isn't going to happen, unless technology, and economies of scale after it is fully implemented, bring down the cost of pruduction.

I highly doubt it due to the massive amount of infrastructure upgrades that will be required to manufacture and distribute the new fuel.

Mr. Laz
08-30-2005, 04:03 PM
I am all for it, as long as its economically viable. I.E. if it costs 4 dollars for a gallon of Hydrogen fuel, and gas is still 3 dollars per gallon, then we stay with gas.

The point I am making is that we won't see 1.5 a gallon fuel again, it just isn't going to happen, unless technology, and economies of scale after it is fully implemented, bring down the cost of pruduction.

I highly doubt it due to the massive amount of infrastructure upgrades that will be required to manufacture and distribute the new fuel.
it runs on regular water, not hydrogen fuel

the water is used in some kind of electrolysis process to create energy ... they said it "burns" hotter and more efficiently than gas.

byproduct was regular water as well ... showed that too

he had an arc welder running using the same process


in the video saw the guy hold up a regular clear glass with water in it and he said "this is how much water it uses for a trip to NY"

then he poured it out


the guy had modified his Ford Taurus i think ... looked completely normal until he popped the hood. :)

Calcountry
08-30-2005, 04:06 PM
it runs on regular water, not hydrogen fuelSign me up. I am anything but an expert on this type of fuel.

:D

Skip Towne
08-30-2005, 04:11 PM
Sign me up. I am anything but an expert on this type of fuel.

:D
I'll buy that, Clevis.

Calcountry
08-30-2005, 04:20 PM
I'll buy that, Clevis.O.K. Jeb Clampet

Over-Head
08-30-2005, 04:21 PM
$121.6 a fuggen liter up here!!!
(That's $4.62 a US gallon converted.)
Nothing like raping us eh? :hump:

Calcountry
08-30-2005, 04:24 PM
$121.6 a fuggen liter up here!!!
(That's $4.62 a US gallon converted.)
Nothing like raping us eh? :hump:Hey liberals, I take BART to the ballgames.

Nothing like getting bent over eh?

Calcountry
08-30-2005, 04:27 PM
I personally want to make sure that Clevis detector Skip gets another coveted 100 post thread to feather his BB cap.

I am sorry Jeb, did I surpass your 20 post per day curfew again?

Mr. Laz
08-30-2005, 04:31 PM
Hey liberals, I take BART to the ballgames.

Nothing like getting bent over eh?
like it's liberal's fault for the gas prices :shake:


hate to break it to ya... but the gas companies will find other reasons to raise prices.

and will continue to until gas is obsolete

Calcountry
08-30-2005, 04:38 PM
like it's liberal's fault for the gas prices :shake:


hate to break it to ya... but the gas companies will find other reasons to raise prices.

and will continue to until gas is obsoleteThey are in the business to make a profit. Consumers are in business to get as much for less as possible. Gas is scarce, there is not an unlimited supply. What to do about it? :hmmm: I know, lets make some laws and punish those evil greedy companies that explore, find, drill, pump, transport, refine, and distribute a product to consumers, on demand, at a price that many can still afford.

A lot more than if the government price fixes things like they did in the Nixon Admistration. Shock, I disagree with a republican. Wow, I didn't know Clevis could be so open minded.

Saulbadguy
08-30-2005, 04:46 PM
Whats everyone take on this?

http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds/afx/2005/08/30/afx2195813.html

Oil price bubble about to burst, says business guru Forbes
08.30.2005, 05:20 AM

SYDNEY (AFX) - Oil prices are set to crash from this week's record highs as a speculative market bubble bursts with an impact that could make the hi-tech bust of 2000 'look like a picnic', business publisher Steve Forbes has predicted.

Forbes said the high oil prices currently dampening the US economy, which peaked at more than 70 usd a barrel yesterday as Hurricane Katrina headed for the US Gulf Coast, would fall to 30-35 usd a barrel within a year.

'I'll make a bold prediction... in 12 months, you're going to see oil down to 35-40 usd a barrel,' he said, according to Agence France-Presse.

'It's a huge bubble, I don't know what's going to pop it but eventually it will pop -- you cannot go against supply and demand, you cannot go against the fundamentals forever.'

The billionaire magazine publisher's comments came as the price of crude eased following US government comments that it could release some of its Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR).

The SPR, a 700-mln-barrel stockpile set aside for emergency use, could be used to counter oil shortages caused by Hurricane Katrina's devastation of the Gulf oil industry, which accounts for about a quarter of US output.

Forbes, who unsuccessfully sought Republican nomination in the 1996 and 2000 US Presidential elections, said the US government's constant topping up of the SPR had helped drive up oil prices.

'The speculators know now that no matter what happens to the price of oil, Uncle Sam is there buying almost every day,' he said.

'Stop the buying and in fact throw some of that oil on the open market, boy that would throw it in turmoil and send the price down.'

He said factors such as inflation and increased demand for oil from China and India only accounted for a small part of the price hike from 25-30 usd a barrel three years ago.

'The rest of it is sheer bubble speculation,' Forbes said.

'I'll be blunt, there's hardly a hedge fund in North America that hasn't speculated on oil futures.'

Forbes said the higher the oil price rose, the harder it would eventually crash, creating more pain for hedge fund managers and their clients.

'I don't think it's going to go to 100 usd but if it does the crash is going to be even more spectacular,' he said. 'It will make the hi-tech bubble look like a picnic -- this thing is not going to last.'

Donger
08-30-2005, 04:51 PM
Interesting Saul. I read a few months ago that another major player was predicting a burst.

It depends, I suppose, on demand lessening significantly (which I doubt will happen) and then the speculation stopping or slowing significantly.

I'd bet that we'll see $75 by Labor Day, and then a drop to around $55-60 thereafter. The next few weeks to a month are going to suck, however.

Then again, crude has doubled in less than a year. A lot of that IS pure speculation. Let's hope so.

Skip Towne
08-30-2005, 05:01 PM
Whats everyone take on this?

http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds/afx/2005/08/30/afx2195813.html

Oil price bubble about to burst, says business guru Forbes
08.30.2005, 05:20 AM

SYDNEY (AFX) - Oil prices are set to crash from this week's record highs as a speculative market bubble bursts with an impact that could make the hi-tech bust of 2000 'look like a picnic', business publisher Steve Forbes has predicted.

Forbes said the high oil prices currently dampening the US economy, which peaked at more than 70 usd a barrel yesterday as Hurricane Katrina headed for the US Gulf Coast, would fall to 30-35 usd a barrel within a year.

'I'll make a bold prediction... in 12 months, you're going to see oil down to 35-40 usd a barrel,' he said, according to Agence France-Presse.

'It's a huge bubble, I don't know what's going to pop it but eventually it will pop -- you cannot go against supply and demand, you cannot go against the fundamentals forever.'

The billionaire magazine publisher's comments came as the price of crude eased following US government comments that it could release some of its Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR).

The SPR, a 700-mln-barrel stockpile set aside for emergency use, could be used to counter oil shortages caused by Hurricane Katrina's devastation of the Gulf oil industry, which accounts for about a quarter of US output.

Forbes, who unsuccessfully sought Republican nomination in the 1996 and 2000 US Presidential elections, said the US government's constant topping up of the SPR had helped drive up oil prices.

'The speculators know now that no matter what happens to the price of oil, Uncle Sam is there buying almost every day,' he said.

'Stop the buying and in fact throw some of that oil on the open market, boy that would throw it in turmoil and send the price down.'

He said factors such as inflation and increased demand for oil from China and India only accounted for a small part of the price hike from 25-30 usd a barrel three years ago.

'The rest of it is sheer bubble speculation,' Forbes said.

'I'll be blunt, there's hardly a hedge fund in North America that hasn't speculated on oil futures.'

Forbes said the higher the oil price rose, the harder it would eventually crash, creating more pain for hedge fund managers and their clients.

'I don't think it's going to go to 100 usd but if it does the crash is going to be even more spectacular,' he said. 'It will make the hi-tech bubble look like a picnic -- this thing is not going to last.'
I want to beieve this so I'm going to.

Calcountry
08-30-2005, 05:07 PM
Interesting Saul. I read a few months ago that another major player was predicting a burst.

It depends, I suppose, on demand lessening significantly (which I doubt will happen) and then the speculation stopping or slowing significantly.

I'd bet that we'll see $75 by Labor Day, and then a drop to around $55-60 thereafter. The next few weeks to a month are going to suck, however.

Then again, crude has doubled in less than a year. A lot of that IS pure speculation. Let's hope so.I am thinking of selling my VLO a few days before Labor Day.

Skip Towne
08-30-2005, 06:17 PM
I am thinking of selling my VLO a few days before Labor Day.
Good move, Claude.

Rausch
08-30-2005, 06:27 PM
Good move, Claude.

Careful with that axe Eugene...

Calcountry
08-30-2005, 07:20 PM
Good move, Claude.Why thank you Mr. Clampet.

PastorMikH
08-30-2005, 07:44 PM
Whats everyone take on this?'



I think it is possible that we could see crude prices drop. However, now that the greedy oil companies have pushed the price up, I seriously doubt we will see gas prices drop below $2 a gallon - and they were well under $2 a gallon the last time the price per barrel was that low

Skip Towne
08-30-2005, 08:33 PM
I think it is possible that we could see crude prices drop. However, now that the greedy oil companies have pushed the price up, I seriously doubt we will see gas prices drop below $2 a gallon - and they were well under $2 a gallon the last time the price per barrel was that low
I think you're right and I also think the oil industry should be declared a public utility and it's pricing subject to approval of the FCC. It keeps the electric and gas companies from doing exactly what the oil industry is doing. Remember, the Sherman Anti-Trust Act was passed to break up Standard Oil. Oil companies have gouged us for decades. Enough, I say!!

Skip Towne
08-30-2005, 09:13 PM
THIS JUST IN!! Watching the 10 O'clock news, gasoline has gone up another 10 cents to $2.79. Criminal!!

Skip Towne
08-30-2005, 09:23 PM
I personally want to make sure that Clevis detector Skip gets another coveted 100 post thread to feather his BB cap.

I am sorry Jeb, did I surpass your 20 post per day curfew again?
Hey, you're right, another 100 post thread for the master. I have WAY more 100 post threads than anyone else. I am the KING!!!

mnchiefsguy
08-30-2005, 09:25 PM
I think you're right and I also think the oil industry should be declared a public utility and it's pricing subject to approval of the FCC. It keeps the electric and gas companies from doing exactly what the oil industry is doing. Remember, the Sherman Anti-Trust Act was passed to break up Standard Oil. Oil companies have gouged us for decades. Enough, I say!!

I was just thinking this the other day, and my coworkers thought I was nuts! Glad to see see other people are thinking the same thing....

Skip Towne
08-30-2005, 09:36 PM
I was just thinking this the other day, and my coworkers thought I was nuts! Glad to see see other people are thinking the same thing....
I'm usually against gov. regulation but these folks have just carried it too far. Just like Standard Oil did decades ago.

Frazod
08-30-2005, 09:40 PM
I'm usually against gov. regulation but these folks have just carried it too far. Just like Standard Oil did decades ago.

Fortunately for the big oil companies, they have their handpuppet in the White House. Lucky them.

Everybody else who gouges people under these circumstances gets pounded on. The oil companies just get more record profits.

Fairplay
08-30-2005, 09:50 PM
THIS JUST IN!! Watching the 10 O'clock news, gasoline has gone up another 10 cents to $2.79. Criminal!!




Thats it, im cutting my gardening hose and make real use of it.

alanm
08-31-2005, 01:19 AM
Fortunately for the big oil companies, they have their handpuppet in the White House. Lucky them.

Everybody else who gouges people under these circumstances gets pounded on. The oil companies just get more record profits.
Hey Tim... You thinking about trading that Big ole Mustang in on a moped yet??? :) :p

luv
08-31-2005, 01:27 AM
Regular Unleaded

Sunday $2.49
Monday $2.59
Tuesday $2.79

:shake:

ENDelt260
08-31-2005, 01:51 AM
Hey Tim... You thinking about trading that Big ole Mustang in on a moped yet??? :) :p
Nah, fraz ain't worried. He got the girl mustang with the lawnmower engine in it. Who's laughing now?

jspchief
08-31-2005, 06:39 AM
Just thought I'd let Skip know that while wholesale prices may have dropped 3 cents two days ago, they went up 55 cents yesterday.

Saulbadguy
08-31-2005, 06:47 AM
$2.99 for the regular stuff at the corner of 21st and Fairlawn.

KChiefs1
08-31-2005, 07:01 AM
just drove through Jefferson City, MO...

$2.91/gallon

Chiefs_Mike_Topeka
08-31-2005, 07:09 AM
$2.99 for the regular stuff at the corner of 21st and Fairlawn.


Saw that last night, I was lucky to find the station at 29th and Gage who still had fuel at $2.69 (can't believe I find that "lucky") and filled up there. Get to save $.30 a gallon for one fill-up at least.


:banghead:

Coach
08-31-2005, 07:55 AM
Yesterday, it was $2.77 for regular and $2.79 for premium.

This morning:
$2.93 for regular
$2.95 for premium

Damn. :shake:

TEX
08-31-2005, 08:46 AM
Fortunately for the big oil companies, they have their handpuppet in the White House. Lucky them.

Everybody else who gouges people under these circumstances gets pounded on. The oil companies just get more record profits.

Perhaps the best thing said here all year. :clap:

MOhillbilly
08-31-2005, 08:53 AM
kill whitey!!!

sd4chiefs
08-31-2005, 08:56 AM
Some of the blame should go to all of the 'Soccer Moms' and to everone who has to drive around in a BIG ASS SUV. :shake:

KingPriest2
08-31-2005, 09:01 AM
Whats everyone take on this?

http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds/afx/2005/08/30/afx2195813.html

Oil price bubble about to burst, says business guru Forbes
08.30.2005, 05:20 AM

SYDNEY (AFX) - Oil prices are set to crash from this week's record highs as a speculative market bubble bursts with an impact that could make the hi-tech bust of 2000 'look like a picnic', business publisher Steve Forbes has predicted.

Forbes said the high oil prices currently dampening the US economy, which peaked at more than 70 usd a barrel yesterday as Hurricane Katrina headed for the US Gulf Coast, would fall to 30-35 usd a barrel within a year.

'I'll make a bold prediction... in 12 months, you're going to see oil down to 35-40 usd a barrel,' he said, according to Agence France-Presse.

'It's a huge bubble, I don't know what's going to pop it but eventually it will pop -- you cannot go against supply and demand, you cannot go against the fundamentals forever.'

The billionaire magazine publisher's comments came as the price of crude eased following US government comments that it could release some of its Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR).

The SPR, a 700-mln-barrel stockpile set aside for emergency use, could be used to counter oil shortages caused by Hurricane Katrina's devastation of the Gulf oil industry, which accounts for about a quarter of US output.

Forbes, who unsuccessfully sought Republican nomination in the 1996 and 2000 US Presidential elections, said the US government's constant topping up of the SPR had helped drive up oil prices.

'The speculators know now that no matter what happens to the price of oil, Uncle Sam is there buying almost every day,' he said.

'Stop the buying and in fact throw some of that oil on the open market, boy that would throw it in turmoil and send the price down.'

He said factors such as inflation and increased demand for oil from China and India only accounted for a small part of the price hike from 25-30 usd a barrel three years ago.

'The rest of it is sheer bubble speculation,' Forbes said.

'I'll be blunt, there's hardly a hedge fund in North America that hasn't speculated on oil futures.'

Forbes said the higher the oil price rose, the harder it would eventually crash, creating more pain for hedge fund managers and their clients.

'I don't think it's going to go to 100 usd but if it does the crash is going to be even more spectacular,' he said. 'It will make the hi-tech bubble look like a picnic -- this thing is not going to last.'

Expert: $4 a gallon gasoline coming soon
Pricing analyst says consumers can expect even higher prices at the pump.
August 31, 2005: 10:40 AM EDT
By Grace Wong, CNN/Money staff writer

Special Report full coverage


Oil retreats under $70

White House to tap reserves

Expert: $4 a gallon gasoline coming soon

Gas crisis looms





QUICK VOTE
Will the release of oil from the nations's strategic reserve affect gasoline prices?
Push them lower
Higher regardless
Too early to say


View results



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Video More video


CNN's Allan Chernoff discusses Hurricane Katrina's effect on oil and gas prices. (August 30)
Play video




NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Consumers can expect retail gas prices to rise to $4 a gallon in the near future, a pricing analyst said Wednesday.

"There's no question gas will hit $4 a gallon," Ben Brockwell, director of pricing at the Oil Price Information Service, said. "The question is how high will it go and how long will it last?"

OPIS tracks wholesale and retail oil prices and provides pricing information for AAA's daily reports on fuel prices.

Brockwell said with gasoline prices now exceeding $3 a gallon before even reaching the wholesale level, it "doesn't take a genius" to expect retail prices to hit $4 a gallon soon.

"Consumers haven't seen the worst of it yet," Brockwell said.

He expects consumers in the Southeast and Northeast to be pinched first, following the impact of Hurricane Katrina on the Gulf Coast region.

Katrina forced operators to close more than a tenth of the country's refining capacity and a quarter of its oil production, which sent gasoline prices surging.

The nationwide average price for a gallon of regular unleaded hit a fresh high of $2.619 Wednesday, according to AAA, the largest U.S. motorist organization, formerly known as the American Automobile Association.

Average gasoline prices have gained 40 percent in the last year.

Prices for crude oil are also up sharply and are currently hovering near record highs just under $70 a barrel.

KingPriest2
08-31-2005, 09:04 AM
It is 3.50 up in Grand Haven MIchigan

TEX
08-31-2005, 09:30 AM
He expects consumers in the Southeast and Northeast to be pinched first, following the impact of Hurricane Katrina on the Gulf Coast region.

Katrina forced operators to close more than a tenth of the country's refining capacity and a quarter of its oil production, which sent gasoline prices surging.

And the excuses continue. I'm sure this caused major problems but it never used to when storms hit before. The deal is once they go up - they won't come down to anywhere near where they are now. We'll all be praying for $2.75 a gallon in the future and looking at it as a good thing.

That's when the puppet in the White House can say to his oil buddies,"Mission Accomplished."

BigRedChief
08-31-2005, 10:01 AM
Gas to hit $4.00 a gallon soon:
http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/31/news/gas_prices/index.htm?cnn=yes

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Consumers can expect retail gas prices to rise to $4 a gallon soon but whether they stay there depends on the long-term damage to oil facilities from Hurricane Katrina, oil and gas analysts said Wednesday.

"There's no question gas will hit $4 a gallon," Ben Brockwell, director of pricing at the Oil Price Information Service, said. "The question is how high will it go and how long will it last?"

MOhillbilly
08-31-2005, 10:05 AM
SO uh.....how long before China really flexes?

ROYC75
08-31-2005, 10:57 AM
I have a customer in Cadiz,Ky that just called begging for a truck due to price increase. One of thre local stations there went to $ 3.10 a gallon on gas, she is panicking ...... Send me a truck before next weeks price increase on Fuel Surcharge. :shake:

Folks, we all are going to pay for this destruction across the board. Gas, diesel, heating oil, natural gas, food, supplies, home / auto insurance ...... it's going to be wide spread increases across the board.

plbrdude
08-31-2005, 11:42 AM
right, owner of local conv. store here told me this morning that he was told to expext .75 cent increase over next 7-10 days

Troy1220
08-31-2005, 11:45 AM
3.19 in Grand Rapids, MI this afternoon.

Troy

Saulbadguy
08-31-2005, 11:47 AM
Folks, we all are going to pay for this destruction across the board. Gas, diesel, heating oil, natural gas, food, supplies, home / auto insurance ...... it's going to be wide spread increases across the board.
I figured if I

A) Dropped some premium channels off my cable lineup
and
B) Start clipping some coupons every once in awhile

I will be just fine.

Frosty
08-31-2005, 11:50 AM
We had some of the most expensive gas in the nation at $2.75 on Monday and now it appears we have some of the cheapest as it only went to $2.80 today. I imagine it will get up there soon.

Uatu
08-31-2005, 11:58 AM
$2.79 is what I just paid.

I'm not all that worried. I moved close to work a while back, keep the tire pressure up, don't run the A/C when its bearable, go easy on the gas pedal, and I didn't pay for 350 horsepower when 150 will do the job just fine.

Plus you can save a buck here and there all over the place. Carpool. Use some other transportation. Don't go out to lunch, or if you do order water. Find ways to cut back on your grocery bill. Lose the premium cable channels. Drop your newspaper subscription. There are a million ways.

This could be a good thing in the end. If 10 years from now a few months of this caused people to stop buying gashog vehicles and conserve more, we'll be better off. Less oil usage, less dependence on oil, less pollution, etc.

Braincase
08-31-2005, 12:38 PM
Lose the premium cable channels.

HERETIC! BURN HIM! BURN HIM!

MOhillbilly
08-31-2005, 12:53 PM
2.99 on the northside of Spfld.

Bob Dole
08-31-2005, 12:54 PM
Gas jumped another dime here in the past 24 hours.

Carlota69
08-31-2005, 01:21 PM
The Morning Show I work with here in Vegas talked to a gas station owner and he said that the stations, at least here in Vegas, are making roughly .60c profit per gallon.

So they make HUGE $$$ while we grab our ankles...
I think gas should be regulated.

ndbbm
08-31-2005, 01:30 PM
$2.87 a gallon here in Harrisburg, PA.

*Grab your ankles knees and toes, knees and toes*

Swanman
08-31-2005, 01:37 PM
It's being reported that the Chicago metro area is the most expensive in the nation right now. According to the websites www.illinoisgasprices.com and www.californiagasprices.com, Chicago is in fact more expensive than California. Usually, the west coast is around 40 cents more expensive. It's fugging sickening.

KC Dan
08-31-2005, 01:38 PM
$2.62/gal in Vancouver at lunch today

KCTitus
08-31-2005, 01:38 PM
So they make HUGE $$$ while we grab our ankles...
I think gas should be regulated.

It worked so well in the 70's...

Calcountry
08-31-2005, 01:45 PM
I think you're right and I also think the oil industry should be declared a public utility and it's pricing subject to approval of the FCC. It keeps the electric and gas companies from doing exactly what the oil industry is doing. Remember, the Sherman Anti-Trust Act was passed to break up Standard Oil. Oil companies have gouged us for decades. Enough, I say!!Yes, the boys at the Communications commission should be regulating the oil industry Clevis.

Ari Chi3fs
08-31-2005, 01:50 PM
How to convert your car to run on water. bs? Looks rather legit, just dont have a spare car to test it out... heh.

Calcountry
08-31-2005, 01:51 PM
Here is an article with some info on the challenges that the refining industry faces:

Gulf Coast refiners struggle to restore output

August 31, 2005 14:32:38 (ET)

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) - Gulf Coast refining operations were still struggling Wednesday to resume operations, hampered by a lack of workers, a lack of power, and too much water. Uncertainty linked to the outages - which have shuttered 10% of the nation's refining capacity -- sent gasoline futures soaring to record highs in New York, signaling another round of higher prices at the pump. "We can't do much without power or people," Valero Energy Corp. (VLO (https://us.etrade.com/e/t/invest/quotesandresearch?qmenu=2&prod=VLO:US:EQ), Trade (https://us.etrade.com/e/t/applogic/OrderForm?Symbol=VLO)) spokeswoman Mary Rose Brown said, a problem shared by companies across the region. "We are mobilizing folks from our other refineries to assist in the repair and start-up activities but we can't do anything until folks are allowed to return to the area and we get power to the refinery," she added. Valero, which operates the 260,000-barrel-per-day St. Charles refinery in Norco, La., said it would be at least a week and perhaps as two weeks before it can resume operations. The company said it had a small crew on site pumping out the three feet of water that had flooded the plant's catalytic cracking unit, the heart of the refining process, and that it would likely take two to three days before electricity was restored. Retail prices for a gallon of unleaded in the upper Midwest were already topping $3, with some motorists expressing fears of possible shortages if pipeline and refining operations along the Gulf Coast are not back up soon. As of early Wednesday, at least 2 million barrels per day of crude processing capacity was still shut, with operations at 14 refineries shut by the hurricane or disrupted for lack of crude supplies, straining the nation's already thin gasoline supplies. Under the best of conditions, it takes a refinery several days to bring its equipment from cold shutdown back up to full capacity. And these are among the worst of conditions, with many refinery complexes still inundated, authorities restricting access to flooded areas, and nearly 2 million electricity customers without service in the battered coastal and delta communities. Among the refineries still shuttered are Chevron Corp's (CVX (https://us.etrade.com/e/t/invest/quotesandresearch?qmenu=2&prod=CVX:US:EQ), Trade (https://us.etrade.com/e/t/applogic/OrderForm?Symbol=CVX)) 325,000 barrel per day Pascagoula, Miss., one of the biggest refineries on the Gulf Coast. Motiva Enterprises LLC, which operates a 235,000-bpd refinery in Convent, La., and a 226,000-bpd plant in Norco, La., told the Energy Department that both were shut with no estimated restart time for either. Motiva is the U.S. refining and marketing arm of Royal Dutch Petroleum Co. and (RD (https://us.etrade.com/e/t/invest/quotesandresearch?qmenu=2&prod=RD:US:EQ), Trade (https://us.etrade.com/e/t/applogic/OrderForm?Symbol=RD)) Saudi Aramco, supplying about 9,400 Shell Oil and Chevron-branded gasoline stations across the South and East Coast markets. Shell said initial reports indicated minimal damage at the Convent refinery but that limited access to the Norco facility was hampering the company's ability to assess storm damage there. ConocoPhillips (COP (https://us.etrade.com/e/t/invest/quotesandresearch?qmenu=2&prod=COP:US:EQ), Trade (https://us.etrade.com/e/t/applogic/OrderForm?Symbol=COP)) reported that its Belle Chase, La., refinery, with a daily crude processing capacity of 247,000 barrels, was shut and that its 239,400 refinery in nearby Lake Charles was throttling back due to a loss of supply from the Gulf. A spokeswoman for Murphy Oil Corp. (MRO (https://us.etrade.com/e/t/invest/quotesandresearch?qmenu=2&prod=MRO:US:EQ), Trade (https://us.etrade.com/e/t/applogic/OrderForm?Symbol=MRO)) told Dow Jones damage to its 120,000-bpd refinery in Meraux, La., had been lighter than feared, but it had experienced water damage and remained shut. There were a few glimmers of hope for the crippled industry, however. The Department of Energy reported Exxon Mobil Corp's (XOM (https://us.etrade.com/e/t/invest/quotesandresearch?qmenu=2&prod=XOM:US:EQ), Trade (https://us.etrade.com/e/t/applogic/OrderForm?Symbol=XOM)) giant 493,000-bpd refinery in Baton Rouge , La., was back to normal operations after running at reduced rates because of the storm. And officials for the Louisiana Offshore Oil Port, entry point for 10% of the nation's crude oil imports, said the port escaped significant storm damage and, despite a still spotty electrical supply, was in the process of resuming deliveries. The deepwater port, about 20 miles off the coast, typically receives about a million barrels of oil a day. Also, in a move widely anticipated by the industry, the Secretary of Energy Samuel Bodman said the administration has approved tapping emergency crude oil supplies from the nation's Strategic Petroleum Reserve. The government has not yet announced of how much oil would be released or which refiners would receive it.

Saulbadguy
08-31-2005, 01:52 PM
How to convert your car to run on water. bs? Looks rather legit, just dont have a spare car to test it out... heh.
I found a website where a guy converted his car to run on used vegetable oil. Takes quite a bit of money to convert it.

Calcountry
08-31-2005, 01:55 PM
I found a website where a guy converted his car to run on used vegetable oil. Takes quite a bit of money to convert it.How much does vegetable oil cost per gallon? Was it extra virgin olive oil, or corn oil? :p

Saulbadguy
08-31-2005, 01:57 PM
How much does vegetable oil cost per gallon? Was it extra virgin olive oil, or corn oil? :p
IIRC, he drove around to fast food places and bought up their used oil.

Saulbadguy
08-31-2005, 01:59 PM
http://www.greasecar.com/

Area 51
08-31-2005, 01:59 PM
IIRC, he drove around to fast food places and bought up their used oil.
The guy I saw with the converted car got his used vegtable oil free from the places that uses deep fryers. They were glad to give it away, normally they have to pay to have it disposed of.

If there is a down side, your exhaust smells like french fries!!

Calcountry
08-31-2005, 02:02 PM
The guy I saw with the converted car got his used vegtable oil free from the places that uses deep fryers. They were glad to give it away, normally they have to pay to have it disposed of.

If there is a down side, your exhaust smells like french fries!!Out here we have Smog Check II, I doubt that car would pass inspection.

Area 51
08-31-2005, 02:05 PM
Out here we have Smog Check II, I doubt that car would pass inspection.

As I understand it the emissions are less than that of a diesel which is the primary fuel for the vehicle.

Troy1220
08-31-2005, 02:09 PM
okay this is ridiculous. Gas was 2.99 on my way to work this morning...3.19 at lunch and now it's 3.47 a gallon. That's a .48 a gallon rise in one day. I live in Grand Rapids, MI and we usually have the higher gas prices in the country.

Troy

Hydrae
08-31-2005, 02:09 PM
How to convert your car to run on water. bs? Looks rather legit, just dont have a spare car to test it out... heh.


Your link took me to a lecture series by Joseph Cambell in 1966???

KCTitus
08-31-2005, 02:13 PM
okay this is ridiculous. Gas was 2.99 on my way to work this morning...3.19 at lunch and now it's 3.47 a gallon. That's a .48 a gallon rise in one day. I live in Grand Rapids, MI and we usually have the higher gas prices in the country.

Troy

That is bad...

Calcountry
08-31-2005, 02:18 PM
As I understand it the emissions are less than that of a diesel which is the primary fuel for the vehicle.Lets do it. Lets all be greasers.

Calcountry
08-31-2005, 02:19 PM
That is bad...It will be worse when you can't get any gas.

KCTitus
08-31-2005, 02:20 PM
It will be worse when you can't get any gas.

I dont forsee that.

Calcountry
08-31-2005, 02:26 PM
I dont forsee that.People should really rething carpooling and public transportation about now

DaneMcCloud
08-31-2005, 02:42 PM
Wow, I hope I'm wrong but I definitely forsee a gas shortage in the near future. It's over 3.25 a gallon here in LA and I've read and heard that $5.00 a gallon is not out of the question in the very near future. In a way, I'm glad it's finally coming to this so that alternative fuel methods will be sped along. If it weren't for the powerful oil lobbyists, alternative fuels would have been here decades ago.

Dane

Uatu
08-31-2005, 02:47 PM
I am all for the government locking the price of gas down. Implement the price controls.

To pay for it we can use all the money we are wasting on 'entitlements', foreign aid, spending on illegal immigrants, etc. Just slide the cash on over.

I'm no fan of price controls but I think that would be a net gain for the country.

way2kalm
08-31-2005, 02:55 PM
Wow, I hope I'm wrong but I definitely forsee a gas shortage in the near future. It's over 3.25 a gallon here in LA and I've read and heard that $5.00 a gallon is not out of the question in the very near future. In a way, I'm glad it's finally coming to this so that alternative fuel methods will be sped along. If it weren't for the powerful oil lobbyists, alternative fuels would have been here decades ago.

Dane

THANK YOU!!!! :clap:

tk13
08-31-2005, 03:12 PM
On CNN they said there's long lines for gas in Atlanta, most seem to be selling in the $3.50ish range, but some are as high as $4.99. Some stations are also not letting people pump more than 10 gallons (?) of gas. I think that's what they said the cutoff was....

Donger
08-31-2005, 03:49 PM
Heh. $5.57 in Atlanta.

chief99
08-31-2005, 04:23 PM
Whenever there is panic the supplychain raises prices.

Their arguement - Supply and demand.

This is where free market is slow to adapt to emergencies.

So if there is a water shortage , should the last gallon go to the millionaire for a million dollars or rationed for everyone. Catch 22 if you ask me. The supplier will almost always sell it the highest bidder. The free market is not a perfect system.

Calcountry
08-31-2005, 04:24 PM
I am all for the government locking the price of gas down. Implement the price controls.

To pay for it we can use all the money we are wasting on 'entitlements', foreign aid, spending on illegal immigrants, etc. Just slide the cash on over.

I'm no fan of price controls but I think that would be a net gain for the country.Price controls = shortages and long lines, odd even rationing. Is that what you want?

Calcountry
08-31-2005, 04:27 PM
Whenever there is panic the supplychain raises prices.

Their arguement - Supply and demand.

This is where free market is slow to adapt to emergencies.

So if there is a water shortage , should the last gallon go to the millionaire for a million dollars or rationed for everyone. Catch 22 if you ask me. The supplier will almost always sell it the highest bidder. The free market is not a perfect system.Shouldn't the people that need the gas the most, and are willing to pay the higher price, be the last marginal customer to get a gallon?

Skip Towne
08-31-2005, 06:16 PM
So who is making all the money in this deal? We're talking billions here. Oil companies and Wall Street types is my guess.

Saulbadguy
08-31-2005, 06:46 PM
Price gouging.

Saulbadguy
08-31-2005, 07:46 PM
http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050901/capt.gagb10409010035.katrina_oil_gagb104.jpg?x=194&y=345&sig=fEdbIRT7VI7KNITdaUCJQw--

****ers.

Donger
08-31-2005, 07:51 PM
So who is making all the money in this deal? We're talking billions here. Oil companies and Wall Street types is my guess.

Right now? The retailers. They are anticipating running dangerously low on inventory. So, the price skyrockets.

No different than any other industry.

chiefs4me
08-31-2005, 07:51 PM
2.75 a gallon today for my diesel....and I am almost sure I heard them say on cnn, that Bush was putting a cap on the price.

Saulbadguy
08-31-2005, 07:52 PM
Right now? The retailers. They are anticipating running dangerously low on inventory. So, the price skyrockets.

No different than any other industry.
While fuel tankers sit and wait to refill the stations, anticipating a higher price, right?

Donger
08-31-2005, 07:53 PM
Price gouging.

To an extent, that's true. Plus, they are also trying to discourage people from buying.

Donger
08-31-2005, 07:55 PM
While fuel tankers sit and wait to refill the stations, anticipating a higher price, right?

I doubt it. They've probably been told not to expect another delivery for a few days. So, the gas in their storage tanks becomes more valuable.

It won't stay at these prices. $3.00 for sure for about a week, then it will drop to where it was before Katrina.

Just my opinion.

Saulbadguy
08-31-2005, 07:55 PM
To an extent, that's true. Plus, they are also trying to discourage people from buying.
Yep.

If these ****ing idiots would stop filling up their refillable gas containers, this wouldn't happen. IMO. They are artificially creating demand by hording the gas in fear of a higher price.

Donger
08-31-2005, 07:57 PM
Yep.

If these ****ing idiots would stop filling up their refillable gas containers, this wouldn't happen. IMO.

Yep. Everyone's going out and filling up their tanks, way beyond normal demand.

What does that do to prices, folks?

I tried to quietly tell folks to fill up on Saturday, like I did.

Saulbadguy
08-31-2005, 08:05 PM
Posted on Wed, Aug. 31, 2005
Click here to find out more!

Bush releases oil from petroleum stockpile, urges nation to brace for higher prices, shortages

TOM RAUM

Associated Press

WASHINGTON - President Bush raised the possibility Wednesday that Hurricane Katrina will lead to even higher gasoline prices and shortages in some areas, even as his administration moved to release oil from an emergency government stockpile and to temporarily ease pollution standards on gasoline and diesel fuel.

"Our citizens must understand the storm has disrupted the capacity to make gasoline and distribute gasoline," Bush said in a Rose Garden speech after meeting with top officials to discuss the crisis.

"A lot of crude production has been shut down because of the storm," Bush said after returning from his Texas ranch to oversee federal relief efforts. He flew over some of the affected area on his way.

The decision to tap the Strategic Petroleum Reserve was an effort to keep production of gasoline and other fuels steady.

Even so, gasoline prices leaped nationwide as the extent of damage to the nation's oil-distribution network became more apparent. Key refineries and pipelines remained out of service, reducing fuel shipments to retailers.

Tapping the government reserves will "certainly help those companies and those refineries to function, whereas they wouldn't be functioning without a supply of crude oil," Energy Secretary Samuel W. Bodman told The Associated Press in an interview.

Moments afer Bush's speech, Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., said the president's actions do not go far enough. "On energy, Americans were expecting a lot more from the President. He took a tiny baby step when a giant step is required," said Schumer, who contends Bush needs to release enough oil from the reserve to flood markets and drive down prices.

Rising gasoline prices have taken a political toll on Bush, helping to drive down his approval ratings to an all-time low.

The oil reserves - about 700 million barrels of crude oil stored in underground salt caverns in Texas and Louisiana - were last tapped in September-October 2004 during disruptions caused by Hurricane Ivan.

In the aftermath of Hurrican Katrina, some 95 percent of the Gulf of Mexico's oil output was out of service, according to the U.S. Minerals Management Service. Nearly 5 million barrels of production have been lost since Friday because of the powerful storm and the shutdown of eight refineries.

"It is clear the consequences of the hurricane have become more widespread," Stephen Johnson, the Environmental Protection Agency's administrator, told a news conference.

A day after the EPA announced it would temporarily allow the sale of higher-polluting gasoline in Alabama, Florida, Louisiana and Mississippi, it acted to ease certain restrictions on gasoline blends and diesel fuel in the rest of the country as well.

"This will help take some pressure off the gas price," Bush said as gasoline prices soared toward $3 a gallon in many parts of the country, surpassing that level in some places.

Bodman said freeing oil from the petroleum reserve would do little toward easing gasoline prices.

"Will it make a major difference in the price of gasoline? Based on the numbers that I see, probably not," Bodman told the AP. "It'll help some, but we have significant refining capacity that is dysfunctional, either because they don't have electric energy or because they're flooded, or both."

Some lawmakers have urged Bush to tap the reserve more aggressively in hopes of forcing prices down.

But the president's action is limited to just giving refineries a temporary supply of crude oil to take the place of interrupted shipments from tankers or offshore oil platforms affected by the storm - and it requires the oil companies to replace the borrowed crude oil at a later time.

Bodman told a news conference he had approved the first in a series of requests from companies requesting oil from the reserve. But the company later rescinded its request after finding a private source for the oil, Energy Department officials said.

He said it was too early to tell how much oil would be released.

"We've also begun working with other agencies on planning, even before the storm came ashore, and have been in close contact with the state and local authorities assessing the overall impact of this storm on our nation's power infrastructure," Bodman said.

The administration's narrowly targeted step drew criticism from those advocating large releases from the reserve to try to drive down prices.

"The president is willing to do what it takes to relieve an oil company, but not enough to relieve the crushing burden of oil speculation and price-fixing on American consumers and small businesses," said Rep. Edward J. Markey of Massachusetts, a senior Democrat on the House Energy Committee.

Rep. Joe Barton, R-Texas, chairman of that committee, announced a congressional hearing Tuesday on Katrina's impact on energy markets. "I hope this is the silver lining that lets us really look at building new refineries and new pipelines and diversify the location so we are not as dependent on the area that the hurricane hit," Barton said.

Bodman ruled out action to impose a national ceiling on the price of gasoline.

"I don't think you'd find a lot of support for that," the energy secretary told CNN.

The production and distribution of oil and gas remained severely disrupted by the shutdown of a key oil import terminal off the coast of Louisiana and by the Gulf region's widespread loss of electricity, which is needed to power pipelines and refineries.

Bush, who returned from his Texas vacation to chair a meeting of a White House task force set up to coordinate federal efforts, had Air Force One fly over New Orleans and other affected areas on the way to Washington.

While on the plane, Bush took a call from King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia. "The king offered Saudi Arabia's support," said White House spokesman Scott McClellan. The world's biggest crude oil producer, Saudi Arabia has pledged to boost output by 1.5 million barrels a day - to 11 million - to replace shortfalls.

Meanwhile, European nations began considering the release of their own government-controlled stockpiles of gasoline and heating oil to help stabilize markets, said officials at the Paris-based International Energy Agency.

Saulbadguy
08-31-2005, 08:06 PM
I tried to quietly tell folks to fill up on Saturday, like I did.
I listened. Made my parents do it as well. Well, it was on Sunday, before the prices rose.

Keeping it under 2500 RPM, and not using my AC. Only the necessary trips.

ROYC75
08-31-2005, 08:26 PM
It has went from $ 2.59 to $ 2.99 in some stations. One station even has it at $ 3.09 a gallon.

beavis
08-31-2005, 08:30 PM
On CNN they said there's long lines for gas in Atlanta, most seem to be selling in the $3.50ish range, but some are as high as $4.99. Some stations are also not letting people pump more than 10 gallons (?) of gas. I think that's what they said the cutoff was....
I had a guy mention to me today that gas would start to be rationed as early as next week. Don't know how reliable a source he was, just what he told me.

Donger
08-31-2005, 08:32 PM
I listened. Made my parents do it as well. Well, it was on Sunday, before the prices rose.

Keeping it under 2500 RPM, and not using my AC. Only the necessary trips.

Good for you, Saul. In all seriousness.

My wife was going to drive to a park with the kids today that's about ten miles away. I suggested instead that she walk to a park that's about a .25 miles away instead of driving. They won't care, she gets some exercise, and no gasoline is burned. She got back, the kids had a great time and no problems.

alnorth
08-31-2005, 09:05 PM
2.75 a gallon today for my diesel....and I am almost sure I heard them say on cnn, that Bush was putting a cap on the price.

Nope.

Think of it this way. Do you want to have gas on demand, or do you want shortages, where you are either rationed gas, or have to roam around trying to find a gas station with any supplies?

If you want gas upon demand, and if the supply of that gas is shrinking, you damned well better jack up those prices to discourage people from buying.

Uatu
08-31-2005, 09:08 PM
How about a holiday on all those damn fuel taxes until this is over with. I thought that $.25 on the dollar was usually taxes.

alnorth
08-31-2005, 09:08 PM
I am all for the government locking the price of gas down. Implement the price controls.

Okie doke, noted. So, do you want gas to be rationed? If yes, how many gallons will you allow me to buy per week?

If you dont like rationing, then the only other alternative is massive widespread gas shortages, where you have to hunt around everywhere to find a gas station with some available supplies.

If you want gas on demand, then your price caps fly right out the window. You cant revoke the law of supply and demand without some very serious consequences.

memyselfI
08-31-2005, 09:12 PM
I think this weekend will be an interesting test to see just how much of an impact the higher prices will have. Many people will still go on their vacations but many might stay home.

Uatu
08-31-2005, 09:13 PM
Okie doke, noted. So, do you want gas to be rationed? IF yes, how many gallons will you allow me to buy per week?

If you dont like rationing, then the only other alternative is massive widespread gas shortages, where you have to hunt around everywhere to find a gas station with some available supplies.

If you want gas on demand, then your price caps fly right out the window. You cant revoke the law of supply and demand without some very serious consequences.

I probably was not clear, I was mostly being fecetious. I wondered when the price control debate would come up, is all.

Really all people need to do is not buy a gas guzzler and limit themselves to necessary consumption. If you are trundling along at 12 mpg in your Ram 1500 I have a hard time feeling sorry for you.

Frazod
08-31-2005, 09:16 PM
I'm really starting to think about how bad prices could be by the time the Banquet Weekend rolls around. I figure I'll burn through the better part of three tankfulls between Chicago and Kansas City. At this point, that would cost me nearly $160 - God only knows how much it will be in another month-and-a-half.

:shake:

ROYC75
08-31-2005, 09:17 PM
I had a guy mention to me today that gas would start to be rationed as early as next week. Don't know how reliable a source he was, just what he told me.

You might keep one eye open tonight watching that toaster you been degrading. :hmmm:


Seriously, I can see this if demands are going to be short, but with them opening up the reserve, it shouldn't happen.

Uatu
08-31-2005, 09:19 PM
I guess though, this happened in the 70s and passed. I wasn't old enough to buy gas, but maybe it's the same thing.

Sort of like a stock market correction, with the hurricane speeding it up faster than it would normally have gotten here? :shrug:

ROYC75
08-31-2005, 09:19 PM
I'm really starting to think about how bad prices could be by the time the Banquet Weekend rolls around. I figure I'll burn through the better part of three tankfulls between Chicago and Kansas City. At this point, that would cost me nearly $160 - God only knows how much it will be in another month-and-a-half.

:shake:


I hear ya, I'm planning on 4 tanks with the running I will do....$ 200.00 for me.

stevieray
08-31-2005, 09:19 PM
I listened. Made my parents do it as well. Well, it was on Sunday, before the prices rose.

Keeping it under 2500 RPM, and not using my AC. Only the necessary trips.

Not using your AC?

wow. way to sack up.

BiStateNo
08-31-2005, 09:21 PM
Just came down Santa Fe in Olathe. Both QTs had regular unleaded at $3.06. I'm certain the rest will follow suit by morning. If President Bush were a LEADER...he'd order temporary (3-6 month) price controls. Otherwise, by the time the oil companies are done with us, we'll all be in bankruptcy......

penguinz
08-31-2005, 09:29 PM
If President Bush were a LEADER...he'd order temporary (3-6 month) price controls. Otherwise, by the time the oil companies are done with us, we'll all be in bankruptcy......You are a fugging moron.

Uatu
08-31-2005, 09:29 PM
Just came down Santa Fe in Olathe. Both QTs had regular unleaded at $3.06. I'm certain the rest will follow suit by morning. If President Bush were a LEADER...he'd order temporary (3-6 month) price controls. Otherwise, by the time the oil companies are done with us, we'll all be in bankruptcy......

I'm sure its not as simple as him signing a post-it that says "no one can charge more than a buck-fifty".

Supplements from the reseves should be used, combined with a temporary suspension of fuel taxes. I'd like to see him take action that way, if it's within his power. Congress may have to be involved for that however... I'm no expert on the subject.

BiStateNo
08-31-2005, 09:38 PM
You are a fugging moron.


Then you enjoy paying $4.00 a gallon for gas dumba$$....

alnorth
08-31-2005, 09:38 PM
Just came down Santa Fe in Olathe. Both QTs had regular unleaded at $3.06. I'm certain the rest will follow suit by morning. If President Bush were a LEADER...he'd order temporary (3-6 month) price controls. Otherwise, by the time the oil companies are done with us, we'll all be in bankruptcy......

The president might be powerful, but he cant just single-handedly cancel capitalism with a stroke of a pen, congress has to be involved.

Since congress is not being run by a pack of freakin idiots, price caps are unlikely.

alnorth
08-31-2005, 09:39 PM
Then you enjoy paying $4.00 a gallon for gas dumba$$....

ok, fine. Lets try it your way. We can have rationing, or shortages, you choose. If you want rationing, how many gallons do you think people should be allowed to buy? Keep in mind if you overestimate, youll have shortages.

If you dont like rationing, then we run out of gas. Have fun walking to work.

J Diddy
08-31-2005, 09:39 PM
Since congress is not being run by a pack of freakin idiots, price caps are unlikely.


That's funny I was thinking the exact opposite.

cdcox
08-31-2005, 09:40 PM
Just came down Santa Fe in Olathe. Both QTs had regular unleaded at $3.06. I'm certain the rest will follow suit by morning. If President Bush were a LEADER...he'd order temporary (3-6 month) price controls. Otherwise, by the time the oil companies are done with us, we'll all be in bankruptcy......

Gas prices in 1981 averaged $3.11 per gallon in todays dollars after adjusting for inflation.

BiStateNo
08-31-2005, 09:42 PM
The president might be powerful, but he cant just single-handedly cancel capitalism with a stroke of a pen, congress has to be involved.

Since congress is not being run by a pack of freakin idiots, price caps are unlikely.


Actually he can. Nixon did it in the 70s. Look, I'm not saying to stop the free market system or anything of the sort, all I'm saying is that a temporary halt to the price gouging that is going on would only help things. This isn't just about gas prices. Give it another month or two and you will see prices for nearly everything rise. It costs money to get groceries to the stores. Price Chopper isn't going to eat that increase...we are...

BiStateNo
08-31-2005, 09:44 PM
ok, fine. Lets try it your way. We can have rationing, or shortages, you choose. If you want rationing, how many gallons do you think people should be allowed to buy? Keep in mind if you overestimate, youll have shortages.

If you dont like rationing, then we run out of gas. Have fun walking to work.

Again...no one is suggesting rationing....there is NO shortage of gasoline. All I am advocating is TEMPORARY price controls in order to stop the gouging of the oil companies. Nothing more. Price controls wouldn't have to last more than 3-6 months. My God! It's not like the damn oil companies haven't made BILLIONS of dollars off of the American people!

ArrowheadHawk
08-31-2005, 09:47 PM
i think this thread needs moved to political

cdcox
08-31-2005, 09:48 PM
Again...no one is suggesting rationing....there is NO shortage of gasoline. All I am advocating is TEMPORARY price controls in order to stop the gouging of the oil companies. Nothing more. Price controls wouldn't have to last more than 3-6 months. My God! It's not like the damn oil companies haven't made BILLIONS of dollars off of the American people!

So you advocate stealing money from the millions of working class Americans who own oil stocks through their retirement accounts by preventing the oil compaines from getting less than market value for gasoline?

SBK
08-31-2005, 09:50 PM
Heh. $5.57 in Atlanta.

It was sheer madness here today. I saw cops directing traffic to the pumps. My sister in law paid $5.00 a gallon, even though I told her to wait until tomorrow.

Some big rumor got started down here that all the pumps were being shut off at 3:00, so everyone went out and bought gas, and BAM, all the way up to $6.07 a gallon. Retarded, it got so bad the governor put a price freeze on it.

I was driving home at 11:00 tonight and gas stations are either empty (most) or have super long lines and average about 3.15-3.50 a gallon. Morons.

I'll go fill my tank tomorrow when gas slides back down to normal prices again. ROFL

BiStateNo
08-31-2005, 09:51 PM
So you advocate stealing money from the millions of working class Americans who own oil stocks through their retirement accounts by preventing the oil compaines from getting less than market value for gasoline?

Stealing!?!?! So Bush tops the price of Gas at $2.50 a gallon for 3 months and you call that STEALING!?!?! My God...this country is doomed...there is no hope

cdcox
08-31-2005, 09:56 PM
Stealing!?!?! So Bush tops the price of Gas at $2.50 a gallon for 3 months and you call that STEALING!?!?! My God...this country is doomed...there is no hope

When the investment manager for my retirement account bought oil stocks he or she did so under the assumption that market forces would dictate the retail price of gasoline and the profitability of the oil companies. If prices are artificially frozen below market value, the profitability and stock price will definitely be negatively affected. That will be money that never enters my retirement account. Yes, I view it as stealing or a unequally-levied retroactive tax, if you like that better.

J Diddy
08-31-2005, 10:00 PM
So you advocate stealing money from the millions of working class Americans who own oil stocks through their retirement accounts by preventing the oil compaines from getting less than market value for gasoline?

The way I understand the thread header the wholesale went down and the retail went up?

Sounds like you're advocating me not being able to contribute to my retirement account because they want to make a huge frigging profit.

alnorth
08-31-2005, 10:00 PM
I'm about to pick the funds for my first 401k (first job out of college). I've already decided that I dont want any funds heavily invested in oil stocks, nothing goes up forever. We found that out in the late 90's.

alnorth
08-31-2005, 10:04 PM
The way I understand the thread header the wholesale went down and the retail went up?

Sounds like you're advocating me not being able to contribute to my retirement account because they want to make a huge frigging profit.

The premise for the topic header is not true. I'm not sure how this "Tulsa Radio station" is measuring things, but the price of oil on the market is climbing rather rapidly. The people who need oil for the refineries are anticipating a shortage, so they are more willing to pay higher prices. If that shortage did not materialize, the bubble would pop like a tech stock, but since everyone and their dog knows the shortage is real...

cdcox
08-31-2005, 10:06 PM
The way I understand the thread header the wholesale went down and the retail went up?

Sounds like you're advocating me not being able to contribute to my retirement account because they want to make a huge frigging profit.

As in any dynamical system, there is a time lag between whole sale prices of oil and retail prices of gasoline. In addition there are many other factors involved, such as the transportation and refining, which have been adversley affected by Katrina. Finally the prime driver for the price of anything in our economy is supply and demand, not the cost of manufacture. Right now, the demand for gasoline exceeds the supply, so prices are going up. But I point out again, that inflation-adjusted prices are no higher than they were in 1981.

BiStateNo
08-31-2005, 10:19 PM
I'm about to pick the funds for my first 401k (first job out of college). I've already decided that I dont want any funds heavily invested in oil stocks, nothing goes up forever. We found that out in the late 90's.

I have been in the work force for nearly 36 years and I understand the premise of "market determination". I, too, have a HEAVILY vested 401K. That isn't the problem here. The problem is that the oil companies and the Oil producing countries i.e., Saudi Arabia, have set the market price. THERE IS NO COMPETITION in the oil business. They charge what they will. They decide to artificially raise the price, they do it. Now, comes the Hurricane Katrina. The price for AMERICAN gas rises like crazy WEEKS before there is any indication that a "shortage" might come about as the result of the storm. The oil companies then ask the President for a "loan" from the Oil reserves. They then gouge that price as high as possible in order to turn immense profits from a situation that, as of today, doesn't exist. The price for a gallon of gasoline has risen nearly .60 cents in less than a week. Now, my question is this:Just Who the hell is stealing from WHOM? If something isn't done to (at least temporarily) slow the gouging by the oil companies, Inflation will go through the roof. Try heating your house this winter on a $800.00 per month heating bill.......it's coming...but wow! Our 401Ks will sure look good, now, won't they?

chief99
08-31-2005, 10:32 PM
So you advocate stealing money from the millions of working class Americans who own oil stocks through their retirement accounts by preventing the oil compaines from getting less than market value for gasoline?

I bet alot of people own oil stocks and would love to see some more refineries blow up !

Bizarre.

Raising prices during emergencies is against the law from what i understand.

luv
09-01-2005, 12:18 AM
Regular Unleaded

Sunday $2.49
Monday $2.59
Tuesday $2.79

:shake:
Wednesday $2.99

BigMeatballDave
09-01-2005, 01:28 AM
$3.09

BigMeatballDave
09-01-2005, 01:38 AM
Less than 2 years ago I recall paying $1.27 just 2 weeks before Christmas. WTF?!

KcMizzou
09-01-2005, 01:49 AM
Less than 2 years ago I recall paying $1.27 just 2 weeks before Christmas. WTF?! It's easy.... inflation.

ahem

alanm
09-01-2005, 02:33 AM
I heard that it costs roughly $4 to pump out a barrel of oil for OPEC. And of course they are selling it for over $70 a barrel. Now who is ass raping who?

alnorth
09-01-2005, 07:16 AM
I have been in the work force for nearly 36 years and I understand the premise of "market determination". I, too, have a HEAVILY vested 401K. That isn't the problem here. The problem is that the oil companies and the Oil producing countries i.e., Saudi Arabia, have set the market price. THERE IS NO COMPETITION in the oil business. They charge what they will. They decide to artificially raise the price, they do it. Now, comes the Hurricane Katrina. The price for AMERICAN gas rises like crazy WEEKS before there is any indication that a "shortage" might come about as the result of the storm. The oil companies then ask the President for a "loan" from the Oil reserves. They then gouge that price as high as possible in order to turn immense profits from a situation that, as of today, doesn't exist. The price for a gallon of gasoline has risen nearly .60 cents in less than a week. Now, my question is this:Just Who the hell is stealing from WHOM? If something isn't done to (at least temporarily) slow the gouging by the oil companies, Inflation will go through the roof. Try heating your house this winter on a $800.00 per month heating bill.......it's coming...but wow! Our 401Ks will sure look good, now, won't they?

If your upset with the Saudis, fine. However, price caps are not going to harm them a bit, it will only hurt American oil companies.

As for the SPR, thats not going to be terribly significant here. According to the experts on the news, assuming we tap the SPR, we can make up the shortfall in the gulf for one year, but oil supply is not going to be the problem. We lost an enormous amount of refining capability with 9 major refineries in Louisiana shut down for an undetermined length of time.

In other words, we can have all the oil in the world, but we will still have a gas shortage because we lack the ability to convert that oil into gas fast enough to meet demands of consumers.

Why dont we have extra refineries? Environmentalists have made it enormously difficult to build a new refinery. Refineries are also not immediately profitable for a very long time after construction. (The energy bill that was passed recently addresses this, but that will take a very long time to affect us) So, if we want extra refining capability, we should be encouraging oil companies to build them with incentives, rather than punishing them for wanting to build one. For those few who dont want the extra refining capability, they cant really complain when a disaster upsets the delicate perfect balance that must be maintained when we have no margin for error.

MOhillbilly
09-01-2005, 07:18 AM
Wednesday $2.99

2.89 at the conoco at college and grant.2.99 on N kansas exp. @13hwy.

Saulbadguy
09-01-2005, 07:20 AM
Not using your AC?

wow. way to sack up.
ROFL

Heh. Its not so bad with the windows down. I gotta turn the AC on on the highway though, it just gets too hot. And I sweat like a pig.

Saulbadguy
09-01-2005, 07:20 AM
I'm really starting to think about how bad prices could be by the time the Banquet Weekend rolls around. I figure I'll burn through the better part of three tankfulls between Chicago and Kansas City. At this point, that would cost me nearly $160 - God only knows how much it will be in another month-and-a-half.

:shake:
Might just be cheaper to fly Southwest.

JOhn
09-01-2005, 08:09 AM
Well gas jumped here at all the major station, Exxon, Conaco, Cennex etc from $2.64 yesterday to $2.79 Today. Of course Maverick is still at $2.59 ($2.57 with their discount card).

I'm sure by Monday it will be over $2.90. :cuss:

Freaking killing me, as I have to fill up EVERYDAY, and now spending $45 to fill the van 3/4 tank, were it was 25-30 a month ago. :banghead:

WisChief
09-01-2005, 08:15 AM
Might just be cheaper to fly Southwest.

I wonder if the airlines will honor tixs bought now for flights out that far??? Will they demand fuel charges at check in?

Right now there are still $40 one ways Midway - KCI

PHOG
09-01-2005, 08:26 AM
$2.79 when I went to work..(yesterday)

$2.99 when I left work..

No end in sight...

:shake:

gblowfish
09-01-2005, 09:01 AM
I filled up on Sunday night for $2.53. This morning its up to $2.99.9!
I heard an ad for an RV dealership on the way to work this morning. They said their lot was full. No kiddin. How much would it cost to fill one of those monsters? $300???

chief99
09-01-2005, 10:34 AM
The free market hordes gas also.

The energy markets are culprits also.

Under emergencies the free market struggles.

It just snowballs. Why does this country rely on government for emergency reserves ? Why does free market believer pres. Bush use them ? Taming the energy markets.

Calcountry
09-01-2005, 11:56 AM
My God! It's not like the damn oil companies haven't made BILLIONS of dollars off of the American people!. Lets focus on this premise. Billions of dollars OFF of the American people as if they stole it from them.

No one forced them to buy Denali's. No one is telling them to drive those same Denali's with one passenger in them now that gas is 3.00 per gallon.

How is it that these billions of dollars got ripped OFF of the American people.

Haven't the American people benefitted from the free flow of gasoline?

Surely you are not advocating that the American people return to horse and buggy are you?

Alternative more abundant supplies of fuel are the answer in the long run. in the short run, carpool, drive your most efficient car, and drive only when you have to. Take public transportation if you can.

luv
09-01-2005, 12:24 PM
2.89 at the conoco at college and grant.2.99 on N kansas exp. @13hwy.
Wow, it's 2.99 too? Gas usually tends to be a penny or two cheaper on the north side of town.

MOhillbilly
09-01-2005, 12:50 PM
Wow, it's 2.99 too? Gas usually tends to be a penny or two cheaper on the north side of town.

89 its the same on west chestnut exp. i seen one for 2.87.

luv
09-01-2005, 12:54 PM
89 its the same on west chestnut exp. i seen one for 2.87.
Well, I live by Republic Rd and Scenic area, and work in Nixa. Wish one of the stations down here was 2.89. I filled up on Monday though, so hopefully that will last me a little while. I don't drive that many places that aren't close by.

PastorMikH
09-01-2005, 01:09 PM
We are at 2.999 here now.


2 Questions...

1) IF supply and demand and price per barrel are truly to blame for the drastic increase in prices, then why has the price of motor oil gone up less than 10 percent? Seems to me that if what the oil companies are telling us is correct, quarts of motor oil would also be going up in comparable fashion.


2) When the IRS traveling reinbursment was last raised to .37 cents a mile, gas was under $1.50 a gallon. With the rising costs of fuel, what are the odds that congress will raise that .37 cents a mile to a more accurate amount?

Calcountry
09-01-2005, 01:24 PM
We are at 2.999 here now.


2 Questions...

1) IF supply and demand and price per barrel are truly to blame for the drastic increase in prices, then why has the price of motor oil gone up less than 10 percent? Seems to me that if what the oil companies are telling us is correct, quarts of motor oil would also be going up in comparable fashion.


2) When the IRS traveling reinbursment was last raised to .37 cents a mile, gas was under $1.50 a gallon. With the rising costs of fuel, what are the odds that congress will raise that .37 cents a mile to a more accurate amount?

Answer to 1) the coefficient that is in front of the motor oil component of a barrel of crude is different than that for gasoline.

Answer to 2) When their staffers and employees gripe at them about how hard it is to get to the office on time because they can't afford to drive there on the 37 cents.

chief99
09-01-2005, 01:27 PM
If your upset with the Saudis, fine. However, price caps are not going to harm them a bit, it will only hurt American oil companies.

As for the SPR, thats not going to be terribly significant here. According to the experts on the news, assuming we tap the SPR, we can make up the shortfall in the gulf for one year, but oil supply is not going to be the problem. We lost an enormous amount of refining capability with 9 major refineries in Louisiana shut down for an undetermined length of time.

In other words, we can have all the oil in the world, but we will still have a gas shortage because we lack the ability to convert that oil into gas fast enough to meet demands of consumers.

Why dont we have extra refineries? Environmentalists have made it enormously difficult to build a new refinery. Refineries are also not immediately profitable for a very long time after construction. (The energy bill that was passed recently addresses this, but that will take a very long time to affect us) So, if we want extra refining capability, we should be encouraging oil companies to build them with incentives, rather than punishing them for wanting to build one. For those few who dont want the extra refining capability, they cant really complain when a disaster upsets the delicate perfect balance that must be maintained when we have no margin for error.


It's in the Oil co. interests to shut down refiniries. I read in the paper that one was shutdown by a company because of a merger even though it was profitable. So mergers can cause less supply which again is in their interest.

PastorMikH
09-01-2005, 01:32 PM
Answer to 1) the coefficient that is in front of the motor oil component of a barrel of crude is different than that for gasoline.





I realize there is more refining in gasoline than there is in motor oil.

Still, if the price of crude has doubled - forcing gas prices to double, why should motor oil price only reflect a small change.


I'm thinking someone's pockets are getting really, really full right now.

Miles
09-01-2005, 02:32 PM
At least I dont live in Georgia.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/thenewswire/archive/ap/gas-prices1.gif

Calcountry
09-01-2005, 03:44 PM
I realize there is more refining in gasoline than there is in motor oil.

Still, if the price of crude has doubled - forcing gas prices to double, why should motor oil price only reflect a small change.


I'm thinking someone's pockets are getting really, really full right now.YOu missed it.

If Crude cost 100 dollars, only a hypothetical right now but who knows.

Each barrel of oil has 44 gallons of mass, or volume. Of that amount only 50 % can be refined into gasoline. I don't know how the rest of the 22 gallons breaks down, Donger knows the numbers.

Lets say 10% is made into motor oils. It is a byproduct of the gas demand for crude. You also have failed to factor in that motor oil is highly recycled, thus generating even more supply than strictly from crude.
Thus, it would be less affected by a doubling of the crude price than gasoline would.

The above argument is not to say someones pockets aren't getting full, just to explain why motor oil doesn't necessarily double because gas and crude doubled.

Fairplay
09-01-2005, 03:54 PM
Breakdown of a barrel of crude oil. Barrel = 42 gallons.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/infosheets/crudeproduction.htm


Crude oil is measured in barrels. A barrel of 42-U.S. gallons of crude oil yields slightly more than 44 gallons of petroleum products. This "process gain" of volume is due to a reduction in the density during the refining process. In 2003, one barrel of crude oil, when refined, yielded 19.7 gallons of finished motor gasoline, as well as smaller quantities of many other petroleum products.

Petroleum Products Yielded from
One Barrel of Crude, 2000
Product Gallons
Finished Motor Gasoline 19.69

Distillate Fuel Oil 9.70
Kero-Type Jet Fuel 3.99
Residual Fuel Oil 1.76
Still Gas 1.89
Petroleum Coke 2.14
Liquefied Refinery Gas 1.76
Asphalt and Road Oil 1.34
Naptha for Feedstocks 0.63
Other Oils for Feedstocks 0.50
Lubricants 0.46
Special Naphthas 0.13
Kerosene 0.17
Miscellaneous Products 0.17
Finished Aviation Gasoline 0.04
Waxes 0.04

Total 44.41

Bob Dole
09-01-2005, 04:19 PM
The Shell station Bob Dole passes on the way home just jumped another 20 cents to $2.99.

Calcountry
09-01-2005, 04:37 PM
The Shell station Bob Dole passes on the way home just jumped another 20 cents to $2.99.What the heck, I'll make some stuff up. The Valero Gas station across the street was 2.89 Yesterday, this morning it was 3.09, As I type, the road is packed with commuters and the lines are long getting gas there. Nothing like back in the 70's, but they are long for this time of day.

Skip Towne
09-01-2005, 04:52 PM
YOu missed it.

If Crude cost 100 dollars, only a hypothetical right now but who knows.

Each barrel of oil has 44 gallons of mass, or volume. Of that amount only 50 % can be refined into gasoline. I don't know how the rest of the 22 gallons breaks down, Donger knows the numbers.

Lets say 10% is made into motor oils. It is a byproduct of the gas demand for crude. You also have failed to factor in that motor oil is highly recycled, thus generating even more supply than strictly from crude.
Thus, it would be less affected by a doubling of the crude price than gasoline would.

The above argument is not to say someones pockets aren't getting full, just to explain why motor oil doesn't necessarily double because gas and crude doubled.
One barrel = 42 gallons, Clevis, not 44.

chief52
09-01-2005, 05:37 PM
Gas went up 0.24 cents in Humboldt County on Tuesday night.

Lowest price for Reg. is now $3.24 :banghead:

4th and Long
09-01-2005, 05:44 PM
I topped off the tank Tuesday morning for 2.49 a gallon. I was off work yesterday. At the same station this morning, gas was 2.85. On the way home, the same station had jumped up to 2.95. 46 cents in 2 days. Argh!

tomahawk kid
09-01-2005, 05:51 PM
Paid $3.05 at the QT in Liberty @ 5pm.

old_geezer
09-01-2005, 06:41 PM
I topped off the tank Tuesday morning for 2.49 a gallon. I was off work yesterday. At the same station this morning, gas was 2.85. On the way home, the same station had jumped up to 2.95. 46 cents in 2 days. Argh!


You live in my hometown? That's exactly what happened here.

4th and Long
09-01-2005, 06:44 PM
You live in my hometown? That's exactly what happened here.
I actually drive through two counties to reach my destination. The county in which I work had the petrol in question. Dare I ask where you live? :hmmm:

Calcountry
09-01-2005, 06:45 PM
One barrel = 42 gallons, Clevis, not 44.Jed, there is a production gain of 2 gallons or a total of 44 gallons.

Thanks for your intelligent observation Mr. Clampet.

Calcountry
09-01-2005, 06:46 PM
Breakdown of a barrel of crude oil. Barrel = 42 gallons.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/infosheets/crudeproduction.htm


Crude oil is measured in barrels. A barrel of 42-U.S. gallons of crude oil yields slightly more than 44 gallons of petroleum products. This "process gain" of volume is due to a reduction in the density during the refining process. In 2003, one barrel of crude oil, when refined, yielded 19.7 gallons of finished motor gasoline, as well as smaller quantities of many other petroleum products.

Petroleum Products Yielded from
One Barrel of Crude, 2000
Product Gallons
Finished Motor Gasoline 19.69

Distillate Fuel Oil 9.70
Kero-Type Jet Fuel 3.99
Residual Fuel Oil 1.76
Still Gas 1.89
Petroleum Coke 2.14
Liquefied Refinery Gas 1.76
Asphalt and Road Oil 1.34
Naptha for Feedstocks 0.63
Other Oils for Feedstocks 0.50
Lubricants 0.46
Special Naphthas 0.13
Kerosene 0.17
Miscellaneous Products 0.17
Finished Aviation Gasoline 0.04
Waxes 0.04

Total 44.41Apparently you didn't read this post Clevis.

Fairplay
09-01-2005, 06:48 PM
Jed, there is a production gain of 2 gallons or a total of 44 gallons.

Thanks for your intelligent observation Mr. Clampet.




I was listening to this dj radio announcer that said the oil companies must be adding water to it to make a barrel of oil produce anoither two gallons. What an idiot.

Skip Towne
09-01-2005, 06:48 PM
Jed, there is a production gain of 2 gallons or a total of 44 gallons.

Thanks for your intelligent observation Mr. Clampet.
Bullshit!! Smarten up Claude.

4th and Long
09-01-2005, 06:50 PM
Sorry boys but basic chemistry 101 says bunnytrdr is correct.

Calcountry
09-01-2005, 07:05 PM
Bullshit!! Smarten up Claude.I beeter heet the books Mr. Jethro P. Bumpis.

Skip Towne
09-01-2005, 07:09 PM
I beeter heet the books Mr. Jethro P. Bumpis.
Ain't you a double naught spy?

Calcountry
09-01-2005, 07:11 PM
Ain't you a double naught spy?YYYYEEP, dat be me. Hey Skippie, why's don't you let me pull my boot out yos ass?

Bwana
09-01-2005, 07:38 PM
Damn! I went fishing today and when I got back to town, the gas price had jumped .20, now $2.85.

old_geezer
09-01-2005, 07:41 PM
I actually drive through two counties to reach my destination. The county in which I work had the petrol in question. Dare I ask where you live? :hmmm:

Check under my avatar. :) Little ole town in midwest Mo.