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KingPriest2
08-31-2005, 11:43 PM
http://dorgan.senate.gov/newsroom/record.cfm?id=243935
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Thursday, August 18, 2005 CONTACT: Barry E. Piatt
or Rebecca Pollard
PHONE: 202-224-2551


DORGAN CALLS FOR INVESTIGATION OF GASOLINE PRICES AND WANTS WINDFALL PROFITS TAX ON OIL COMPANIES



(WASHINGTON, D.C.) – U.S. Senator Byron L. Dorgan (D-ND) Thursday called on the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) to begin the formal investigation of oil and gas prices that is required in the new energy bill just signed by President Bush.

Dorgan, who authored the provision that requires an investigation, said current oil and gasoline prices are not the product of an open and transparent market. There is plenty of room and opportunity for consumers to be gouged by oil companies wanting to cash in on OPEC price fixing, he said.

Dorgan said the provision he wrote requires the FTC to launch an investigation into possible price and supply manipulation within 90 days of enactment of the energy bill.

“The current dramatic spikes in gasoline prices are forcing consumers to pay higher prices and are providing fat profits for the major oil companies and the OPEC countries,” Dorgan said.

All American consumers are feeling the pain of these price hikes, but people in rural states are hit the hardest, Dorgan said. For example, he said, the average North Dakotan uses twice as much gasoline as the average New Yorker. Therefore, his constituents are hit twice as hard by the huge price increases.

Dorgan also said today he is going to introduce a windfall profits tax on the major integrated oil companies that are reaping an extra $7 billion in profits each month because of skyrocketing oil prices, which have jumped more than $30 per barrel since the beginning of 2004. These biggest oil companies stand to gain up to $80 billion in the next year in windfall profits.

Since oil prices spiked, U.S. consumers will pay nearly $200 billion a year more for oil and gasoline products, Dorgan said. About $120 billion of that goes to the foreign countries from whom the U.S. purchases oil, including Saudi Arabia and other Middle Eastern countries. An estimated $80 billion goes to the major U.S. oil companies to fatten their bank accounts—even though they have little or no additional expense in producing that oil, Dorgan said.

“This has nothing to do with a free market,” Dorgan maintained. “It is about the OPEC countries and the major oil companies profiting in a controlled market that rewards them and penalizes our consumers.”

He said his proposal for a windfall profits tax would provide an exemption for companies who use their profits to directly invest in new oil and gas exploration and increase refining capacity. Revenue from the windfall profits tax would be used to provide rebates to consumers who are paying inflated prices for gas and oil products.

Dorgan is also the author of a provision in the energy bill that, in the long term, will create a new hydrogen fuel cell future for powering our vehicles and remove what he calls “our addiction” to foreign oil.

The Senator said he plans to introduce his legislation on a windfall profits tax in September when the Senate reconvenes.


--END--

nomad
08-31-2005, 11:57 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by Donger
Wow. Are you really this ignorant?

There's a basic economic answer to that question. Here's a hint: have the production costs of the oil companies increased in proportion to the increase in crude prices?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I suspect congress would like to clear that one up too.

Report Post | IP: Logged


Paging "Donger"..... "Donger" pick up the white courtesy phone....

Of interest:

Dorgan also said today he is going to introduce a windfall profits tax on the major integrated oil companies that are reaping an extra $7 billion in profits each month because of skyrocketing oil prices, which have jumped more than $30 per barrel since the beginning of 2004. These biggest oil companies stand to gain up to $80 billion in the next year in windfall profits.

Since oil prices spiked, U.S. consumers will pay nearly $200 billion a year more for oil and gasoline products, Dorgan said. About $120 billion of that goes to the foreign countries from whom the U.S. purchases oil, including Saudi Arabia and other Middle Eastern countries. An estimated $80 billion goes to the major U.S. oil companies to fatten their bank accounts—even though they have little or no additional expense in producing that oil, Dorgan said.
“This has nothing to do with a free market,” Dorgan maintained. “It is about the OPEC countries and the major oil companies profiting in a controlled market that rewards them and penalizes our consumers.”

Swallow gently........

Mr. Kotter
09-01-2005, 06:52 AM
Nothing wrong with an investigation. I'll await the findings before jumping to any conclusions, but scrutiny is sometimes necessary to keep the bastards honest.

CHIEF4EVER
09-01-2005, 07:38 AM
Nothing wrong with an investigation. I'll await the findings before jumping to any conclusions, but scrutiny is sometimes necessary to keep the bastards honest.

Agree 100%. Enough is enough. The oil companies posted records profits last quarter. Now my thinking may be kinda screwy at times but, if the shortage of oil/lack of refineries/insert excuse here exists, how can a company make record profits when they don't have enough product to do so with? One would think they would maintain their previous margins by increasing the prices. However they are not only maintaining their previous margins, they are increasing them substantially. Somethin' stinks Maynard and it ain't the outhouse.

Duck Dog
09-01-2005, 07:53 AM
Nothing wrong with an investigation. I'll await the findings before jumping to any conclusions, but scrutiny is sometimes necessary to keep the bastards honest.


Bastards? They are worse than that.

NewChief
09-01-2005, 07:55 AM
Where's the faith in the free market? Come on guys. The market balances all!

I know...we need to further deregulate these guys. That would help out for sure.

Donger
09-01-2005, 07:59 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by Donger
Wow. Are you really this ignorant?

There's a basic economic answer to that question. Here's a hint: have the production costs of the oil companies increased in proportion to the increase in crude prices?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I suspect congress would like to clear that one up too.

Report Post | IP: Logged


Paging "Donger"..... "Donger" pick up the white courtesy phone....

Of interest:

Dorgan also said today he is going to introduce a windfall profits tax on the major integrated oil companies that are reaping an extra $7 billion in profits each month because of skyrocketing oil prices, which have jumped more than $30 per barrel since the beginning of 2004. These biggest oil companies stand to gain up to $80 billion in the next year in windfall profits.

Since oil prices spiked, U.S. consumers will pay nearly $200 billion a year more for oil and gasoline products, Dorgan said. About $120 billion of that goes to the foreign countries from whom the U.S. purchases oil, including Saudi Arabia and other Middle Eastern countries. An estimated $80 billion goes to the major U.S. oil companies to fatten their bank accounts—even though they have little or no additional expense in producing that oil, Dorgan said.
“This has nothing to do with a free market,” Dorgan maintained. “It is about the OPEC countries and the major oil companies profiting in a controlled market that rewards them and penalizes our consumers.”

Swallow gently........

Heh. Only proves my point, doesn't it.

Uatu
09-01-2005, 08:53 AM
Any treehuggers ready to drill in Anwar yet? Or would $4 or $5/gal do it for you?

NewChief
09-01-2005, 08:55 AM
Any treehuggers ready to drill in Anwar yet? Or would $4 or $5/gal do it for you?

If I really thought drilling in ANWAR would solve our problem, I'd be all for it.

Donger
09-01-2005, 08:59 AM
If I really thought drilling in ANWAR would solve our problem, I'd be all for it.

Solve it? No. But 16-19 billion barrels of crude under OUR control can't be a bad thing.

KCTitus
09-01-2005, 09:00 AM
The gas price issue is not a crude problem...it's a distribution problem. Drilling in ANWR or getting 'free crude' from any source wont help, getting it refined and distributed is the main problem.

ROYC75
09-01-2005, 09:01 AM
I'm buying a horse .....I can save two fold, gas for the cars and gas for my mower. :D

Saggysack
09-01-2005, 09:03 AM
I would want to drill in ANWAR, but damnit, it's too damn expensive in fuel costs to get the equipment there. Okay, okay, I stole that from Mallard Filmore.

ROYC75
09-01-2005, 09:03 AM
The gas price issue is not a crude problem...it's a distribution problem. Drilling in ANWR or getting 'free crude' from any source wont help, getting it refined and distributed is the main problem.

Nailed on the head...... there is enough supply of oil on hand.

Donger
09-01-2005, 09:04 AM
The gas price issue is not a crude problem...it's a distribution problem. Drilling in ANWR or getting 'free crude' from any source wont help, getting it refined and distributed is the main problem.

Since about half of what you pay for a gallon of gas is just to pay for crude, I disagree.

But, I do agree that we need greater refining capacity.

* Edit: Like I said yesterday, crude from ANWR could totally replace what we import from Saudi Arabia. Wouldn't that be a hoot?

Saggysack
09-01-2005, 09:06 AM
The gas price issue is not a crude problem...it's a distribution problem. Drilling in ANWR or getting 'free crude' from any source wont help, getting it refined and distributed is the main problem.

80 billion can build a few refineries. Hell, you could buy a small country in South America and still have enough leftover for atleast 1 or 2 refineries.

KCTitus
09-01-2005, 09:07 AM
80 billion can build a few refineries. Hell, you could buy a small country in South America and still have enough leftover for atleast 1 or 2 refineries.

Sure can...now all we have to do is get past the greenie weenies to build em. Since one hasnt been built in 3 decades, I'd sure love to see it happen.

KCTitus
09-01-2005, 09:09 AM
Since about half of what you pay for a gallon of gas is just to pay for crude, I disagree.

But, I do agree that we need greater refining capacity.

* Edit: Like I said yesterday, crude from ANWR could totally replace what we import from Saudi Arabia. Wouldn't that be a hoot?

Saudi Arabia doesnt have the sweet crude that we can refine into gas anyway, so that's a non starter. Even the 'price' of crude today has quite a bit of 'fear premium' built in as does the gas price.

Dont get me wrong, I dont like it either, but the quickest way to get gouged is to panic and hoard...

gblowfish
09-01-2005, 09:12 AM
Hey, didn't we just invade a country with the second largest petroleum field on the planet? So what's the problem? If you're gonna invade, shouldn't we loot it too? Huh????

:p

Saggysack
09-01-2005, 09:17 AM
Sure can...now all we have to do is get past the greenie weenies to build em. Since one hasnt been built in 3 decades, I'd sure love to see it happen.

Hmmm, let's see. You have the president that represents your politics, your congress, your senate and your hands are still tied behind your back because of those greenie meanies. Can you say, ineffective.

Like tree huggers are really holding the oil companies back. Please. The oil companies could buy the greenie meanis ten times over and still make record profits.

NewChief
09-01-2005, 09:19 AM
Hmmm, let's see. You have the president that represents your politics, your congress, your senate and your hands are still tied behind your back because of those greenie meanies. Can you say, ineffective.

Like tree huggers are really holding the oil companies back. Please. The oil companies could buy the greenie meanis ten times over and still make record profits.

Come on man. They're facing the VAST TREEHUGGER CONSPIRACY. There's a hidden power behind all the sit ins, pot smoke, and unshaven monkey girls.

Donger
09-01-2005, 09:20 AM
Sure can...now all we have to do is get past the greenie weenies to build em. Since one hasnt been built in 3 decades, I'd sure love to see it happen.

Bush proposed building refineries on closed military bases in the recent energy bill. I suppose we'll see if that comes to fruition.

Donger
09-01-2005, 09:21 AM
Saudi Arabia doesnt have the sweet crude that we can refine into gas anyway, so that's a non starter. Even the 'price' of crude today has quite a bit of 'fear premium' built in as does the gas price.

Dont get me wrong, I dont like it either, but the quickest way to get gouged is to panic and hoard...

My point is that the folks who claim that drilling ANWR "won't help" are simply wrong.

KCTitus
09-01-2005, 09:22 AM
Hmmm, let's see. You have the president that represents your politics, your congress, your senate and your hands are still tied behind your back because of those greenie meanies. Can you say, ineffective.

Like tree huggers are really holding the oil companies back. Please. The oil companies could buy the greenie meanis ten times over and still make record profits.

It sounds so easy doesnt it? Yeah, I'd enjoy playing utopia with you, but the real world doesnt operate that way. Even if congress, senate and president acted today to build new refineries, epa be damned, it wouldnt fix the situation any time soon.

This is all hindsight rubbish...as I said, nothing has been done for 30 YEARS and all the sudden it's 'my congress, president and senate' to blame for those evil oil companies. Feh.

Saggysack
09-01-2005, 09:23 AM
Come on man. They're facing the VAST TREEHUGGER CONSPIRACY. There's a hidden power behind all the sit ins, pot smoke, and unshaven monkey girls.

I never knew they had so much power. I'm simply astonished.

NewChief
09-01-2005, 09:23 AM
My point is that the folks who claim that drilling ANWR "won't help" are simply wrong.

In all honesty, I'm not convinced that it will help me at all. In fact, I'm pretty convinced that we'd see something very similar to what we're seeing right now. Windfall profits for some with vast majority of the public still getting the shaft.

Donger
09-01-2005, 09:24 AM
Hmmm, let's see. You have the president that represents your politics, your congress, your senate and your hands are still tied behind your back because of those greenie meanies. Can you say, ineffective.

Like tree huggers are really holding the oil companies back. Please. The oil companies could buy the greenie meanis ten times over and still make record profits.

Environmental 'red tape' restrictions cannot be dismissed as one of the reasons as to why the oil companies have not chosen to build new refineries. In fact, it could be argued that it forced them to find more efficient ways of refining (which they did).

KCTitus
09-01-2005, 09:24 AM
My point is that the folks who claim that drilling ANWR "won't help" are simply wrong.

Sure, it will help long term...in 5-10 years.

Brock
09-01-2005, 09:25 AM
If I really thought drilling in ANWAR would solve our problem, I'd be all for it.

Is that just another way of saying you can't come up with any legitimate reasons not to do it?

Donger
09-01-2005, 09:25 AM
Sure, it will help long term...in 5-10 years.

If we really went after it now, yes, it would still be years before making a dent.

KCTitus
09-01-2005, 09:29 AM
Anyway, back to the subject of this thread...taxing profits are a great idea. Tax them at 100% and give it to the goverment. Im sure the government will know what to do with that money--piss it away.

That's a great solution.

Eye Patch
09-01-2005, 09:30 AM
My point is that the folks who claim that drilling ANWR "won't help" are simply wrong.

Those folks are more worried about spilling oil on frozen tundra then they are of spilling American blood on desert sands.

Eye Patch
09-01-2005, 09:34 AM
Sure, it will help long term...in 5-10 years.

The proposal to drill in Anwar was presented close to 10 years ago.

To think if it had not been held back by the dems in the senate this might not be as big of an issue as it apparently is.

Mr. Kotter
09-01-2005, 09:35 AM
Where's the faith in the free market? Come on guys. The market balances all!

I know...we need to further deregulate these guys. That would help out for sure.

NC, very few of us really believe in a total free market anymore....a mixed economy is reasonable given the potential excesses of capitalism. However, too much regulation and control isn't good either. Government must strive to strike a balance.

Of course, you know that all ready. :p

Saggysack
09-01-2005, 09:35 AM
It sounds so easy doesnt it? Yeah, I'd enjoy playing utopia with you, but the real world doesnt operate that way. Even if congress, senate and president acted today to build new refineries, epa be damned, it wouldnt fix the situation any time soon.

This is all hindsight rubbish...as I said, nothing has been done for 30 YEARS and all the sudden it's 'my congress, president and senate' to blame for those evil oil companies. Feh.

Play utopia? What the **** are you smoking? Maybe you like spending $5 for every 1.6 gallons of fuel, but I don't. I'm done making excuses for their greed, obviously you aren't.

You know, most legitimate companies that have production and distribution problems for their products usually find something to do about it. Oh, but I forgot, those damn greenie meanies holdin the man down. Go play your blame everyone else game someplace else. Cause here, it isn't working out too great.

KCTitus
09-01-2005, 09:42 AM
Play utopia? What the **** are you smoking? Maybe you like spending $5 for every 1.6 gallons of fuel, but I don't. I'm done making excuses for their greed, obviously you aren't.

You know, most legitimate companies that have production and distribution problems for their products usually find something to do about it. Oh, but I forgot, those damn greenie meanies holdin the man down. Go play your blame everyone else game someplace else. Cause here, it isn't working out too great.

LOL...yeah, you're not playing the blame game. I already stated I dont like the prices, but I realize the reality of the situation. There's greed involved, that's part of our economic cycle. While Im sure you would rather the government run everything, socialism doesnt work, Im sorry.

I find it laughable that you dismiss, wholly, all the environmental nonsense that has restricted production of new facilities over the years. Talk about burying your head in the sand.

At any rate, it doesnt fix the problem today. Whining about the 'illegitimate' oil companies greed doesnt solve the problem and increasing the taxes on them, that wind up getting passed to you and I dont solve the problem either.

Maybe some real improvements in the distribution will come of this, obviously, I believe we can count on our support to doing what needs to be done.

KCTitus
09-01-2005, 09:43 AM
The proposal to drill in Anwar was presented close to 10 years ago.

To think if were not held back by the dems in the senate this might not be as big of an issue as it apparently is.

BLAME GAME! BLAME GAME! BLAME GAME!

Watch out for Saggy, he might neg rep you or something...LOL

Eye Patch
09-01-2005, 09:48 AM
Watch out for Saggy, he might neg rep you or something...LOL

Gee I can only hope...

NewChief
09-01-2005, 09:50 AM
NC, very few of us really believe in a total free market anymore....a mixed economy is reasonable given the potential excesses of capitalism. However, too much regulation and control isn't good either. Government must strive to strike a balance.

Of course, you know that all ready. :p

Us? I wouldn't be referring to you. You're a good old Democrat, remember?

As for the rest. Shut up. Straw men are fun. :p

Area 51
09-01-2005, 09:55 AM
If I really thought drilling in ANWAR would solve our problem, I'd be all for it.

The KC Star is already predicting $4.00 a gallon by mid september.

Bowser
09-01-2005, 09:58 AM
The KC Star is already predicting $4.00 a gallon by mid september.

Noooo, that's not price gouging, is it?

Oxford
09-01-2005, 10:09 AM
The gas price issue is not a crude problem...it's a distribution problem. Drilling in ANWR or getting 'free crude' from any source wont help, getting it refined and distributed is the main problem.

Absolutely. Forty-five percent (45%) of our refining capacity is on the gulf, and refineries are running around 95% of capacity. Lets see, that means that we can only refine about 55% of the normal amount of oil we import/pump. Consumption continues at a normal rate........ voila.... a shortage of refined product.

If we would just build more refineries, we could have a buffer against outages like this, then the futures market would calm down and the price of oil would drop. Not to mention we will need the capacity in the upcoming years.

It's time for a presidental order..... build refineries on abandoned military installations.

Uatu
09-01-2005, 10:24 AM
It's time for a presidental order..... build refineries on abandoned military installations.

:clap:

We also need amnesty from fuel taxes in the short term.

Donger
09-01-2005, 10:28 AM
I just read a report that it takes about five years just to get an air permit from the EPA to build a refinery. From breaking ground to deliverable product takes approximately fifteen years. Oh, and they cost about $3 billion.

KCTitus
09-01-2005, 10:33 AM
Absolutely. Forty-five percent (45%) of our refining capacity is on the gulf, and refineries are running around 95% of capacity. Lets see, that means that we can only refine about 55% of the normal amount of oil we import/pump. Consumption continues at a normal rate........ voila.... a shortage of refined product.

If we would just build more refineries, we could have a buffer against outages like this, then the futures market would calm down and the price of oil would drop. Not to mention we will need the capacity in the upcoming years.

It's time for a presidental order..... build refineries on abandoned military installations.

I agree, Im all for it...now if we can suspend all the red tape and break ground tomorrow, we might have something in 5 years or so.

That still doesnt address the subject of this thread. Taxing or removing profit motive at this point only exacerbates the current problem. There's a definite fear premium in gas prices right now--call it greed/profit whatever you want. If demand is high, profit will be made.

Mr. Laz
09-01-2005, 10:35 AM
Nothing wrong with an investigation. I'll await the findings before jumping to any conclusions, but scrutiny is sometimes necessary to keep the bastards honest.

Gas/oil prices and medical prices both need serious investigation


we need it ... they gouge it

Pitt Gorilla
09-01-2005, 10:40 AM
Maybe a side issue, but where are the alternative fuel sources? Previously, it was noted on this board that alternative sources weren't needed, due to gas being so cheap. That doesn't seem to hold much water anymore.

Calcountry
09-01-2005, 10:44 AM
Any treehuggers ready to drill in Anwar yet? Or would $4 or $5/gal do it for you?I would like to ask if you who want price controls bought SUV's?

Calcountry
09-01-2005, 10:44 AM
I'm buying a horse .....I can save two fold, gas for the cars and gas for my mower. :DWhen you need to feed that thing, come talk to me.

Calcountry
09-01-2005, 10:46 AM
Nailed on the head...... there is enough supply of oil on hand.Valero said its St Charles refinery would be up within one to two weeks.

I saw on CNBC this morning, that another refiner was using power generation to get its plant running again.

We need more refineries, don't we?

Calcountry
09-01-2005, 10:47 AM
Saudi Arabia doesnt have the sweet crude that we can refine into gas anyway, so that's a non starter. Even the 'price' of crude today has quite a bit of 'fear premium' built in as does the gas price.

Dont get me wrong, I dont like it either, but the quickest way to get gouged is to panic and hoard...Valero refines SOUR crude.

Calcountry
09-01-2005, 10:49 AM
Hmmm, let's see. You have the president that represents your politics, your congress, your senate and your hands are still tied behind your back because of those greenie meanies. Can you say, ineffective.

Like tree huggers are really holding the oil companies back. Please. The oil companies could buy the greenie meanis ten times over and still make record profits.no, the representatives from San Francisco and the court judges they have appointed are.

unlurking
09-01-2005, 10:52 AM
Maybe a side issue, but where are the alternative fuel sources? Previously, it was noted on this board that alternative sources weren't needed, due to gas being so cheap. That doesn't seem to hold much water anymore.
And now for the first time in years we're getting to see a ton of media coverage on "potential" alternatives. Whether that be bio-diesel, the con-agra thing, hydrogen fuel cells, etc.

As sad as this may sound, I think the increase in gas prices will actually have a benficial side effect of bringing at least a few of those alternatives to fruition. May be wishful thinking, but I'm hoping.

But pack to the topic, anyone else think prices will hit around 4 - 5 bucks a gallon, and never go below 3 - 4 again, even if production and supply are corrected?

KCTitus
09-01-2005, 10:54 AM
Valero refines SOUR crude.

That's true...one of the refineries does. Not enough to cover our increasing demand.

KCTitus
09-01-2005, 10:55 AM
But pack to the topic, anyone else think prices will hit around 4 - 5 bucks a gallon, and never go below 3 - 4 again, even if production and supply are corrected?

If all the distribution and pipelines are restored and we're coming out of the summer season when gas is typically more expensive due to demand and prices are still above 3 bucks, then you all might be on to something.

I dont believe it will happen, however. Prices will return to normal when distribution returns to normal.

Donger
09-01-2005, 10:56 AM
But pack to the topic, anyone else think prices will hit around 4 - 5 bucks a gallon, and never go below 3 - 4 again, even if production and supply are corrected?

It won't stay at these prices. $3.00 for sure for about a week, then it will drop to where it was before Katrina.

Just my opinion.

Mr. Kotter
09-01-2005, 11:05 AM
Maybe a side issue, but where are the alternative fuel sources? Previously, it was noted on this board that alternative sources weren't needed, due to gas being so cheap. That doesn't seem to hold much water anymore.

Agreed.


:spock:

Did I just agree with Gerry? :hmmm:

:)

penchief
09-01-2005, 11:23 AM
Any treehuggers ready to drill in Anwar yet? Or would $4 or $5/gal do it for you?

Well, if the record-profit-earning oil companies and the usurping-administration continue to put a cannon to our heads, what choice do we have? They're gonna' get their way one way or the other. Even if it's via coercion or blackmail.

According to them it's always the consumer that pays if they don't get their way.

mlyonsd
09-01-2005, 12:15 PM
IMO we'll never see $1.99 again.

Calcountry
09-01-2005, 01:08 PM
It won't stay at these prices. $3.00 for sure for about a week, then it will drop to where it was before Katrina.

Just my opinion.I would concur with that.

Most of the refineries directly affected by this, will be back on line within a couple of weeks.

Of more importance, is the human toll that will be suffered if massive air lifts of water and food stuffs aren't immediately provided to those poor souls who are stuck in the mud.

Calcountry
09-01-2005, 01:11 PM
But pack to the topic, anyone else think prices will hit around 4 - 5 bucks a gallon, and never go below 3 - 4 again, even if production and supply are correctedI sure hope not.

I just dont' think that oil companies would kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.

People would definitely completely alter their economic behaviors at that level, they would have no choice. The companies would then have gas that no one wants anymore.

Calcountry
09-01-2005, 02:52 PM
If we really went after it now, yes, it would still be years before making a dent.How many years has the debate over ANWR been going on?

Too bad they didn't just drill for it right away right? We would have it on line by now.

The Caribu(sp?) can rest easily tonight.

Pitt Gorilla
09-01-2005, 02:57 PM
How many years has the debate over ANWR been going on?

Too bad they didn't just drill for it right away right? We would have it on line by now.

The Caribu(sp?) can rest easily tonight.
I'm curious. How much would ANWR have helped?

Donger
09-01-2005, 03:38 PM
I'm curious. How much would ANWR have helped?

If the estimates are right, ANWR would supply us with enough oil (no imports) to run the entire country for about three years.

Saulbadguy
09-01-2005, 03:40 PM
If the estimates are right, ANWR would supply us with enough oil (no imports) to run the entire country for about three years.
Assuming we could refine it ourselves, correct?

Donger
09-01-2005, 03:45 PM
Assuming we could refine it ourselves, correct?

Yes.

Pitt Gorilla
09-01-2005, 04:05 PM
Yes.
I thought our problem was one of refining. How would ANWR increase our ability to refine (as was seemingly implied by the post to which I was replying)? I am certainly a novice to this topic, but it would seem that building more refineries would be a necessary step in increasing our ability to refine.

Donger
09-01-2005, 04:11 PM
I thought our problem was one of refining. How would ANWR increase our ability to refine (as was seemingly implied by the post to which I was replying)? I am certainly a novice to this topic, but it would seem that building more refineries would be a necessary step in increasing our ability to refine.

It wouldn't. But, if we stopped importing oil right now, and had all of that ANWR crude available, our refineries could handle it as long as most of that crude is light and sweet, which I think it is.

Just a hypothetical.

Personally, I think the best we can do now is continue to expand our existing refineries. That's what we've been doing since the 1970s, but I think it's time to increase the pace.

CHIEF4EVER
09-01-2005, 04:27 PM
It wouldn't. But, if we stopped importing oil right now, and had all of that ANWR crude available, our refineries could handle it as long as most of that crude is light and sweet, which I think it is.

Just a hypothetical.

Personally, I think the best we can do now is continue to expand our existing refineries. That's what we've been doing since the 1970s, but I think it's time to increase the pace.

Forgive my ignorance (my knowledge of this topic is woefully inadequate) but what exactly is "sweet" oil? And what are the other classifications?

Donger
09-01-2005, 04:34 PM
Forgive my ignorance (my knowledge of this topic is woefully inadequate) but what exactly is "sweet" oil? And what are the other classifications?

There are a bunch, but the most common are light or heavy, and sweet or sour.

Light and heavy refer to the viscosity of the crude. Sweet and sour refer to the amount of sulfur present in the oil. Most of our refineries are setup to refine sweet.

Saulbadguy
09-01-2005, 06:11 PM
Personally, I think the best we can do now is continue to expand our existing refineries. That's what we've been doing since the 1970s, but I think it's time to increase the pace.
From what I've been told, people around here are noticing the refinieries working out in Western, KS full time. 10 years ago they weren't.

penchief
09-01-2005, 06:13 PM
I'm curious. How much would ANWR have helped?

How much would it have helped who? The country or the oil companies? You'd have to do a lot of convincing to convince me that it would have made any difference in the prices we pay at the pump.

Would it have been a windfall for Cheneyburton? Undoubtedly. That proof is already in the pudding.

Logical
09-01-2005, 06:43 PM
I don't just want a windfall profits tax, I say that a profit limit should be set and rest of the earnings be distributed to alternative energy research. That would really f*ck with the oil executives heads, keep prices high and eventually put yourself out of of business or have a true incentive to keep them as low as possible.

NewChief
09-01-2005, 06:46 PM
I don't just want a windfall profits tax, I say that a profit limit should be set and rest of the earnings be distributed to alternative energy research. That would really f*ck with the oil executives heads, keep prices high and eventually put yourself out of of business or have a true incentive to keep them as low as possible.


Heh. Nice idea.

Saggysack
09-02-2005, 04:34 AM
BLAME GAME! BLAME GAME! BLAME GAME!

Watch out for Saggy, he might neg rep you or something...LOL

:spock:

What gives you the basis of that idea? Did I neg rep you or something?